I love at 5:35 Darth Vader is in front of a raging river pouring purified water into a plastic jug... while saying "or something far stranger and completely incomprehensible to human understanding" That was Great !
@mas03 Do some research. Read Lawrence Krauss' new book, for starters. Your statements are completely ignorant. Why do you think most physicists, who came up with the big bang, don't believe in god, and especially not a theist god? Trying to use science that you don't understand against scientific people doesn't work, sorry. The big bang is a TAD more complex than what you seem to think, by the way. Also, this video isn't meant to "disprove god", genius.
@MrWildbill20056 Our concepts as of now hold literally no bearing on anything outside of our universe, including "logic", unless proven otherwise. Your statements, which are assumptions, are utterly meaningless.
Seriously, it's always sad when amateur 'thinkers' try to bless the world with their revelations of their ability to refute arguments made my great minds of past and present.
Your argument fails on so many levels. I mean first, the Cosmological argument, if successful does not speak to the nature of the cause at all? o.O
It cannot be caused,must be infinite, it must be outside space-time, it must be capable of acting. Geez.
@MrWildbill20056 Personally I encourage these sorts of videos. I think everybody should have a go at defining the world around them in a way that can be put forth to others. Seems much better then simply seeking the sage like advice of people like Christopher Hitchens (RIP) or William Lane Craig.
This video is absolute bullshyt and doesnt disprove god. We know that the Universe is not eternal that it had a begining. We call that begining the Big Bang in which TIME AND SPACE came into existence. The Big Bang needed a cause because EVERYTHING MATERIAL needs a cause for its existence. Since the Big Bang caused SPACE AND TIME the cause of the Big Bang HAD to be outside of SPACE AND TIME and IMMATERIAL, therefore GOD is the MOST PLAUSIBLE explanation for the existence of the Universe.
@mas03 " EVERYTHING MATERIAL needs a cause for its existence" it doesn't. Quantum mechanics allows particles to come into existence from nothing by borrowing energy from the vacuum, so called 'virtual particles'.
@mas03 Pion's, photons, quarks? to name a few. Are allowed to borrow energy from the vacuum and take part in all of the allowed interactions while they exist.
So you agree a First Cause is possible - agreed ths doesn't prove Allah, Yahweh etc
Your rebuttal is based on
1 - casting doubt on cause on effect [for which you have no proof just conjecture]
2 - saying the early universe is not understood
3 - time came into being at the start of the universe - agreed - this 4D universe came into being - are you saying this arose from 'nothing' - how and why ?
One of the best summaries of most of the refutations of the cosmological argument. I think the 130 dislikes were from the people who posted videos saying how the cosmological argument is awesome
There is one major thing about the cosmological argument that fails. Not the infinity of causes, but the cause itself. Why should the cause be any more supreme then the next cause? And why should the cause of the infinite amount of causes not have a cause?
I find it odd that religious persons continue to argue that there is a logical reason to believe in god as depicted in monotheistic religions. If this god exists it would be very simple for it to provide evidence of its existent that none would doubt. The fact that such clear evident is absent from the world says that such a god does not want there to be such evidence so it is pointless to seek any.
"The creation of universe defies logic." Great argument. You've totally obliterated my logical argument. Also reason usually includes "reasoning", and "rational" is what is logical, not just what is verifiable.
I will think about the machine argument though. However, I'm sure I'll think of something. Perhaps I should become a believer in strong AI, in which case my argument would be: "the machine is sentient, the machine is God", and even maybe "why call it a machine at all?".
@paxcoder Don't be silly. None of the refutations of the cosmological argument in this video(and there are several, you should probably watch it again) hinge on a "creation"(whatever that means) of the universe defying logic. It's just that the lack of evidence is so profound that even this is a possibility. Also, the machine argument specifically stated that the machine did not have to be sentient. Either way, you clearly have no idea what you mean by "God" if you'll embrace a pile of gears.
show proof of anything in the universe that begot itself, demostrate anything and the universe that made itself out of thin air, provide a sample of anything in the universe that procreated itself from nothing. Then and only then,will I listen, 'till then, all this is nothing but a pathetic excuse for self inflicted blindnesss.
@laninarushy I can see where you're trying to go with this, and I will warn you now that it's self refuting. You're trying to argue that something can't come from nothing. I take it you view God as an exception to this rule. But on what grounds do you exempt God? Why not just exempt the big bang, or the God-machine, or the other examples mentioned in this video? Or you could even be honest and say "I don't know why there is something rather than nothing."
@Nykytyne2 On what grounds do I exempt God? on the grounds that God falls outside anything we are able to categorize, he does not fit into any box you can conceive of, he is timeless, spaceless, and all eternal, if he was not any of these things, HE WOULD NOT BE GOD! You want to be able to comprehend, understand, dissect, and study GOD as if he were a "bug". This arrogance knows no limits.
@Nykytyne2 Compared to GOD, humans are limited and small & always will be, look all around, the more we know and learn the more there is to learn and know. Here is where FAITH comes in, but only if u are humble enough to admit no matter how long you live u will never have all the answers. The Bible says God works in mysterious ways, TRUST is of the essence. You can't believe with out it.
@Nykytyne2 Because the big bang doesn't have a book written by the big bang that says that the big bang is all powerful, perfect, fallacious, loving, angry, forgiving, vengeful and eternal.
Howdy! Here is a great demonstration :) Laurence Krauss 'A universe from nothing' video demonstrates how the universe made itself. For some reason youtube won't let me give you the link. If you paste the title, it will come up.
your a mess. A fact is that no matter how little we brake down matter, it still doesn't have a naturalistic explanation for its existence in itself. the fact that we can differentiate between existence and non existence, is proof there are boundaries. If there are boundaries who sets them? Existence is unexplainable.
Your argument is self refuting. An intelligent mind *is* high level of complexity, so you're basically just stating that complexity does not need an explanation, which removes the need to invent a god in the first place.
And of course, there's the problem that the only minds who know of are contingent on physical brains.
And to top it off, the basic reasoning in the cosmological argument falls apart when you introduce uncertainty - so it's not relevant given modern understanding of physics.
Great video, I wish it was mandatory in schools to teach basic logic and some recognition of faulty logic and fallacies. Then everyone would be in even ground to reason together about anything including god.
Every Monad is a mirror of the Universe, as Leibniz said. Look at how the human body work and you will understand the universe. The universe is a huge organism seeking infinite perfection. Its energy with will. It is always becoming something. It never is. Only absolute perfection is and always will be. It's so simple that only a child can understand.
My last counter to the video is that the first cause's initiation of the universe could plausibly have occurred simultaneously with the initiation of time; that is to say that the instant in which time began the universe was created. So I find it entirely plausible that the cosmological argument still points to God, though it takes other arguments to cumulatively present the case for the Christian God.
I suppose it doesn't have to be Yahweh, but based upon the data, it would have to be some sort of personal agent. And morally speaking, I think Yahweh is the best answer, because unlike Allah, the flying spaghetti monster, and the others listed, the God of the Bible loves even His enemies, and is therefore morally superior. Furthermore I think Yahweh is better supported by the teleological and moral arguments, and is by far the best explanation for the events concerning Jesus' Resurrection.
Yes, but imagination and reality are very different. Certain scenarios, such as the Multiple-Universe theory, the Steady-State theory, or the cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches, are all either seriously lacking evidence, or, in the case of the latter two, proven false. I could think of many theories, and could imagine virtually anything, but if it has no basis in reality, then I find it unworthy of thought, especially given the implications of such as view as the Christian faith.
so has there any "pre-big bang" theory a lot of confirmatory evidence? just wondering because you seem to dismiss all the other hyphothesis except yours.
What about an asymptotical time that behaves according to the penrose-hawkins theorems?, what about adynamical acausal interpretations of quantum mechanics? what about virtual particle-antiparticle splits?
what if the universe beyond the cosmic horizon is not uniform?
etc etc etc etc. That is why i call theologians narrow minded.
The god of the bible loves his enemies? I suppose you're one of those selective readers...
He ordered the mass slaughter of countless tribes in OT, even to the point of murdering the women and children of the Midianites - and taking the virgins as sex slaves. It's even claimed that he took direct miraculous action to assist his chosen people in the slaughter at times.
It's like claiming Allah burns nonbelievers in hell because he loves them.
2Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1.Exodus 34:6-7 gives an answer to the problem you've presented. God can still judge sin even though He is compassionate and slow to anger. 2.Divine Command Theory states that whatever command God gives us becomes our moral duty. God commanded Israel to eliminate Amalek based upon His righteous nature which judged their sin; in the absence of such a command it would be wrong to wipe out an entire people group.
I don't have enough space to go any more in depth.
I mean come on, even the animals, defending this makes you morally bankrupt and you are no better then a nazi trying to defend what Hitler did.
Don´t care what the Amalek did, this is in no way righteous, neither was god making a child sick for 7days and killing it ,or killing all the first born in all of Egypt because of one man not doing what god wanted.
"utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not",
Ignoring 1 Samuel 15: 2-3 for the moment, let's discuss God killing individuals directly. If God, insofar as the Bible describes Him, not only created life, but also sustains it, how does He do anything morally wrong to cease maintaining it? It will be important to note that the purpose of life according to the Bible is not to be happy (otherwise I would agree with you) but to have a saving knowledge of God.
Wow, I mean damnnnn, so what, god can do anything and you would be ok with that?
In the bible he commands people to murder and destroy everything, sometimes it´s ok to take women for yourself if they are pretty and what, this is ok because it´s in the bible?
Come on man, stop defending the horrible stuff that is in the bible, open your eyes for a second and see the bible for what it is, a poorly written book of fiction!
God gives commands which stem from His nature, which is necessarily good. When I say His nature is good, I mean ontologically, that is to say that God is the foundation of moral goodness by definition, not simply that we must call whatever God does 'good' even if it is not. Insofar as the Bible has truth value (which must be assumed to be true to even have this discussion), God gives morally perfect commands. You don't have to like that answer, but I see no reason to believe that it's wrong.
@stefansv If God commanded people to go to war, eradicate, destroy then God knew it was for the benefit of the few righteous & it needed to be done, who ru to question God? to know what is in the best interest of humanity? to determine God's intentions? Evil, like a cancer must be destroyed God is also merciful, & God takes care of any injustices in his own way. Perhaps we would not be here if those actions had not been taken.
Are you telling me that every first born in Egypt was evil? Are you telling me that David´s son was evil when god made him sick for 7 days and then killed him to punish David? What about when soldiers smashed that babys and ravished (rape?) (Isaiah 13:16 Isaiah)the women and god is own their side(Isaiah 13-6)?
Who am I to question god, as a moral and good person I can question the character of the bible just like I can question Hitler and I judge them both to be evil!
@stefansv Please!! not another " whinny wimpy God-is- not -fair- girly boy"
To save millions of lives, resources, & time, the US Gov. dropped the A-bomb on Japan. Did inocent Japanese died? Yes, but ten- fold were saved. If it is good enough for man, who are U to judge God?
THE BIBLE is not a fairy tale! it is a true description life's and man's highest highs and lowest lows, it spares no gruesome details. It is not for the feable minded or weak in spirit. GROW UP!
Please!! Not another "crazy christian that takes the bible out of context to fit his twisted view of Jesus and pals"
Are you comparing bombing Japan to god killing the every first born in Egypt, from the pharos child, to the child of the slave at the mill, because of man did not want to do what god ordered?
And you do know that god hardent pharos heart right?
Exodus 4:21 And the LORD said to Moses, When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
@stefansv Lesson 1, are you like the Pharaoh ? is your own heart ans spirit so hard that no matter what evidence is presented before you you will refuse to see what God wants you to see? Is the materialistic dogma which reduces man to a product of blind- unguided- chance fullfilling all your human desires and needs?
If that is the case maybe God will harden your heart too. I am sure he will give you more than 10 chances to re-consider, how many have you wasted?
4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.
It seems to me god knew the pharaoh was gonna let them go but god didnt want that because he wanted to flex his might.
Again, you can try and take this out of context and twist it to your view of the bible but this is pretty clear if you read the bible, no ifs or buts.
And I know that you are gonna google this and find some way to take this out of context and twist in your favor, but that will just make you look dishonest because this is pretty clear.
Maybe you should read the bible for dummies, or, and this is just an idea, something else.
@stefansv This is so simple! God knows what anyone is going to do before they do it.!Just like a parent knows the stubburness of his own child. If I had a drug addicted child who refused all help I would make sure he /she went to jail. God did the same thing here, how is that difficult to understand? God facilitated the Pharaoh's own capricious attitude (Ex. 8:15 and 32) and let him have it his way, but not without giving him 10 opportunities 1st.
@stefansv The pharaoh had 10 opportunities to save his nation, he rejected them all in an effort to come against God! HE alone condemned his people to all the plagues. God gives us warnings and opportunities, & multiple chances.
Isaiah 13 was all about God's retribution & judgement against the sinful pagan nation of Babylon (pd Iraq) in defense of his people (pd Israel). God demostrates loyalty and protection for those who reject wickedness.
@stefansv The little insignificant know -it -all human sits in judgment of the ALL MIGHTY GOD! The God he does not believe EXISTS! I may add. Is this odd or strange? It is completely devoid of logic, but so typical of atheists. Since u have demonstrated to be lacking in basic Bible knowledge, may I suggest The Bible for Dummies, later move on to more advanced works, it may help u sound less ignorant.
"Poorly written book of fiction"not realy, you say it says to murder and destroy but if you read the whole thing and not skip lines and chapters. You would come to relize the people in this book have a reason for what they are doing, be it kill or or take someones woman.Also the bible has more archeological evidence for what it says then any other book ever written.i hope you are able to see the truth eventualy.
@stefansv Do you posses all the knowledge that God possed when he made those commands? were you present when God gave those commands? did you know the evil, peril, danger, that would have taken place had not God given those commands ? was God siding with the righteous against the evil and perverted? do you know more than God? I do not think so, U just like to sit in judgement , thats all.
How about you ask yourself these questions, all I have is the bible, the bible I believed in myself for 15 years but then started to read with an open mind and not like you, really really wanting it to be true and again, taking things out of context and twisting it to fit your twisted view where everything god does is ok, makes you sound like a nazi defending what Hitler did....
@stefansv By ur screeds I can tell ur brain is a nebulous mess, you are fixated in the "small strokes" rather than the obvious "magnificent work of art" in front of you. Negativity and self inflicted blindness will be ur demise. Your views are absurd, pernicious, self defeated, and quite illogical. I bet u are a stick in the mud too. This discussion has run its course, have a Godless, pagan, atheist, & materialistic felicitous life . U have my pity.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh, you arent kidding with the negativity....
HAhahhahahahahh
If only you knew me! I am as positive as they come and open minded, and you know what, I am not gonna judge you like you did me, but I am gonna say this. You do take things out of contaxt and you do twist things to fit your view, and I do hope you open your eyes like i did....
This discussion should have ended when you couldnt even admit that god hardent the pharaos heart, but instead you try and give excuses for your god even though it says it in black and white in the bible....
So enjoy wasting your time believing your imagenery friend in the sky, you sir, have my pity...
This discussion should have ended when you couldnt even admit that god hardent the pharaos heart, but instead you try and give excuses for your god even though it says it in black and white in the bible....
So enjoy wasting your time believing your imaginary friend in the sky.
If the universe has an infinite past, then we could never arrive at this present, because there would be a never-ending number of events that preceeded this moment. Thus apart from the explanation of the Big Bang, it stands to reason that the universe is not eternal. As for the first premise, that anything which begins to exist must have a cause, this is an evident metaphysical premise, which explains why, for example, no one would expect a horse to materialize when they're driving.
As an example, it took a finite amount of time for you to respond to my comment, but if you took an infinite amount of time to respond, you never would, since there would always be an instant in time before your response. In similar fashion, were there an actually infinite past, one could never arrive at a point at which man evolved, because an infinite number of moments in time preceded man's evolution.
The Cosmological Argument is a form of deductive proof of God. If both premises are true, then it follows that the universe has a timeless, immaterial cause. This only leaves us with two choices: an impersonal abstract entity or a personal one. But if an impersonal entity possessed the properties necessary for bringing forth the universe, the universe would either eternally exist or never exist. Only a personal agent can bring forth a finite effect.
If the first cause is responsible for the universe, which is the origin of space and time, then it follows logically that the cause of the universe is timeless and immaterial. In order for this first uncaused cause to initiate the universe, it must be a personal agent, one that is able to decide to act, for if not, the ability to cause the universe to exist would either never occur, resulting in no universe, or activate in the infinite past, resulting in an eternal universe.
Most of that was good except that the cosmological argument uses the fact that the actual world came into existence as opposed to many possible worlds as the evidence that some agent had to choose which possible world would come into existence.
words are inane, they just obstruct our view. The more we use them, the more dependent we are upon them. We will never be able to see the truth with words. Its like trying to use english to write machine code and expect programs to function, its absolute gibberish and means nothing except to our illusory story mode we create to survive the 3d experience. I think we have survival down, lets evolve already.
I like 5-MeO-DMT and psychics. They get to the point before the point is made.
"It is possible that the origins of the universe defy logic and human understanding altogether"
By stating that, you pretty much say that God could exist. You see, in this video, every conclusion you draw, including the one I quoted are derived from human logic and understanding. So while logic does not neccessarily state blatantly that God exists, it does leave that as a possibility, does it not?
You lost me at 4:41, are you trying to state that we cannot talk about things that happened before the big bang? Why not? Time as we know it today we have decided began at the big bang, but something must have happened BEFORE the big bang to make the big bang happen. Something or someone may have set something in motion that made the things that made the big bang. This does not prove a god, but it does not disprove it either, agreed?
Nothing need have started the big bang. Why would you think that? Why does there have to be something before that? Are you sure time is linear, and not simply a parameter or dimension? We could be in a four-dimensional complex, and in that case the concepts of "starting" and "before" are meaningless.
Something is not created out of nothing within human explanation. Time is a human concept. Thus time as we know it began at the big bang. Of course something had to create the big bang. Something doesn't come from nothing. What that something is or was will probably always escape human understanding. You are correct that the start of our time could be a dimensional shift. Regardless, something happened before the big bang.
Before the big bang, time did not exist. The concept of "before" implies chronology. Chronology does not exist outside of time. Therefore, as the domain of time is (0, ∞), nothing could have happened "before" the big bang.
nice try CHILD, but U said time "as we know it" OBVIOUSLY implies that in the domain of time, "time" as defined by humans did not exist before the big bang, but that does not mean "nothing" could have happened before a defined "time". You people are so incapable of following such simple ideas. You people act so lofty, yet are so minor league.
The most important thing said is this: It is possible that the origins of the universe defy logic and human understanding altogether. I'd say it's more than possible, I'd say it's about 99.9% likely that we have no way of even comprehending why or where it all started. Prior to that, the ways that we've come to understand things no longer hold true, so it could be a gigantic jellyfish, it could be a bearded man, or it could be that we are but one droplet poured from Darth Vader's brita pitcher.
Humble? I wasn't aware that going to wikipedia to copy/paste the definition of Occam's razor, so that the person didn't have to go look it up themselves, was being pious
> the simplest answer is "often" the correct answer
That isn't what means at all. For instance, you can't get any simpler an answer than 'god did it', yet that is a very unsatisfactory answer and it is extremely unlikely to be true, especially if citing a particular god
I helped someone with an accurate definition of occam's razor, you disrespected the work I put into that, and suggested that your ignorant layman's version, which wasn't at all accurate, was somehow better, when it clearly showed no fucking understanding of the principle and was misleading.
Just because you are stupid and/or under-educated , doesn't make me pious.
"We must accept our agnosticism about the universe".
This is precisely what many theists (and even deists) take pains to avoid. The human mind want to "know". It wants explanation. Where none currently exists, rather than saying "we're working on it", they feel compelled to answer. They prefer a "just-so" story to "no answer presently".
This is an extremely human failing. It doesn't make them idiots, but it does mean they aren't working very hard on their weaknesses.
Exactly... but I find that many atheists DON'T accept our agnosticism about the universe. They only have FAITH that there is no deity, just as others have faith that there is. But they don't see it that way. They see themselves as 'enlightened', when in fact, they are relying on the same information as the rest of us. We CANNOT know, at least at this point, because prior to the creation of the universe, every way with which we come to understand anything ceases to matter or perhaps even exist.
I hear your complaint. But understand what many of us mean when we describe ourselves as "atheists". We don't believe in the existence of any deities. That's it.
Now, it's possible that you think the very same thing, and if you prefer the *label* agnostic to the *label* atheist, that's fine with me. I'm sure you and I can agree that whatever we *believe*, we are willing to change that belief if sufficient evidence is provided.
With no evidence for deity, I believe no deity exists.
Additionally, I can go further and say that while I don't believe in deities, I am as certain as it is possible for me to be that the deity described in the Old Testament does not exist.
There are too many factual claims about nature which have been shown to be other than explained in that document.
Ninjauman558: If the universe is merely an arrangement of the thoughts of God in a manner that creates a 'distinction' between them and Himself, there is no concept of Him being 'outside everything and therefore nowhere', etc. People always blind themselves with conceptual gymnastics. We can't grasp the concept of an uncaused cause, and an infinite regression of causes is impossible, because a countable infinity is a contradiction in terms. So, how ultimate causality works is a mystery to us
You can't deal properly with so many arguments in 6 minutes. I will only mention that physicists don't like, and are not good at, philosophy, and are liable to come up with the most contradictory nonsense possible. What could the 'beginning of time' possibly mean? 'Beginning' means 'was not and then was'. To eliminate 'was not' from the meaning does not create a new meaning, but only completely destroys the word 'beginning' altogether. 'Beginning of time' is only a meaningless pseudo-concept.
On the one hand, it's an interesting subject to review... but on the other, it's somewhat disheartening that it is necessary for videos like this to be made...
I wonder what I mean by common sense? Things which are clear to me logically seem to be common sense, and yet it is not so.
When examined the same is true of the word evidence or evidence. The sole thing that determines what perceiving (as opposed to perception which cannot be demonstrated to exist) MEAN or exists AS WHAT, the one and only thing that makes somthing obvious or evident is interpretation which differs from one person to the next because it is purely subjective. That doesn't stop the human mind from deifying it's "perceptions" subjectively interpreted as objective REALITY and as a superior perspective.
You are still a long long way off from proving proof exists as anything objective.
Show me first where perceiving becomes a static thing in itself perception as opposed to an imaginary abstraction, then show me what makes certain perceptions evidence, while others are not, then show me that there exists an objective standard of sufficient evidence to become proof which doesn't vary from person to person, situation to situation. Show me its more than subjective interpretation, your GOD.
Your God is evidence, call him lord empircus. You can't prove your personl lord and savior exists at all, but that does not stop you from declaring perceptions inspired by the lord empiricus, your savior, are superior to the perspectives of other people of faith like yourself.
ending very concise , beginning bit of a ramble ,but this is hard stuff to articulate ,and I've been on the beer again so maybe it's me not comprehending, lol .
This format is great. I hope to see more videos presented in this manner (outside of the Doubt 101 series you have announced). Contents are great too, as usual.
U FAIL!!! U FAIL AS A PERSON if u dont beleive then ull go to hell its as simple as taht so why dont u shut up and just kill urself becuase nobody cares about u LOSER!!!
Haha... Just kidding. I was just trying out my "angry brainwashed Christian" impression. How did I do?
I love at 5:35 Darth Vader is in front of a raging river pouring purified water into a plastic jug... while saying "or something far stranger and completely incomprehensible to human understanding" That was Great !
munitsher 3 weeks ago
@mas03 Do some research. Read Lawrence Krauss' new book, for starters. Your statements are completely ignorant. Why do you think most physicists, who came up with the big bang, don't believe in god, and especially not a theist god? Trying to use science that you don't understand against scientific people doesn't work, sorry. The big bang is a TAD more complex than what you seem to think, by the way. Also, this video isn't meant to "disprove god", genius.
BER2ERKER 1 month ago
@mas03 any virtual particle
BER2ERKER 1 month ago
@MrWildbill20056 Our concepts as of now hold literally no bearing on anything outside of our universe, including "logic", unless proven otherwise. Your statements, which are assumptions, are utterly meaningless.
BER2ERKER 1 month ago
Death to religion 2012!!!!!!!!
Typho0n86 4 months ago
Seriously, it's always sad when amateur 'thinkers' try to bless the world with their revelations of their ability to refute arguments made my great minds of past and present.
Your argument fails on so many levels. I mean first, the Cosmological argument, if successful does not speak to the nature of the cause at all? o.O
It cannot be caused,must be infinite, it must be outside space-time, it must be capable of acting. Geez.
MrWildbill20056 5 months ago
@MrWildbill20056 Personally I encourage these sorts of videos. I think everybody should have a go at defining the world around them in a way that can be put forth to others. Seems much better then simply seeking the sage like advice of people like Christopher Hitchens (RIP) or William Lane Craig.
AaronCanb 1 month ago
This video is absolute bullshyt and doesnt disprove god. We know that the Universe is not eternal that it had a begining. We call that begining the Big Bang in which TIME AND SPACE came into existence. The Big Bang needed a cause because EVERYTHING MATERIAL needs a cause for its existence. Since the Big Bang caused SPACE AND TIME the cause of the Big Bang HAD to be outside of SPACE AND TIME and IMMATERIAL, therefore GOD is the MOST PLAUSIBLE explanation for the existence of the Universe.
mas03 7 months ago
@mas03 " EVERYTHING MATERIAL needs a cause for its existence" it doesn't. Quantum mechanics allows particles to come into existence from nothing by borrowing energy from the vacuum, so called 'virtual particles'.
altonator91 7 months ago
@altonator91 can u give me an example of something thats material that came into existence from nothing
mas03 7 months ago
@mas03 Pion's, photons, quarks? to name a few. Are allowed to borrow energy from the vacuum and take part in all of the allowed interactions while they exist.
altonator91 7 months ago
Nice try but they don't understand LOGIC in the first place.
gregrutz 7 months ago
I think the first cause was your cock.
54321Adela 7 months ago
Love the way he says "god"!
barsanted 7 months ago
So you agree a First Cause is possible - agreed ths doesn't prove Allah, Yahweh etc
Your rebuttal is based on
1 - casting doubt on cause on effect [for which you have no proof just conjecture]
2 - saying the early universe is not understood
3 - time came into being at the start of the universe - agreed - this 4D universe came into being - are you saying this arose from 'nothing' - how and why ?
vicachcoup 9 months ago
Lets change a couple words in your statement at 4:52. " It is possible that the God of the universe defies logic and human understanding altogether"
3phillup 9 months ago
@3phillup Absolutely, however if we don't understand god what is the point of the church?
AaronCanb 1 month ago
One of the best summaries of most of the refutations of the cosmological argument. I think the 130 dislikes were from the people who posted videos saying how the cosmological argument is awesome
slammminsam 11 months ago
There is one major thing about the cosmological argument that fails. Not the infinity of causes, but the cause itself. Why should the cause be any more supreme then the next cause? And why should the cause of the infinite amount of causes not have a cause?
gulbirk 1 year ago
I find it odd that religious persons continue to argue that there is a logical reason to believe in god as depicted in monotheistic religions. If this god exists it would be very simple for it to provide evidence of its existent that none would doubt. The fact that such clear evident is absent from the world says that such a god does not want there to be such evidence so it is pointless to seek any.
2357Brian 1 year ago
LMFAO at that darth vader picture. Great vid man.
TatsujinSan 1 year ago
"The creation of universe defies logic." Great argument. You've totally obliterated my logical argument. Also reason usually includes "reasoning", and "rational" is what is logical, not just what is verifiable.
I will think about the machine argument though. However, I'm sure I'll think of something. Perhaps I should become a believer in strong AI, in which case my argument would be: "the machine is sentient, the machine is God", and even maybe "why call it a machine at all?".
paxcoder 1 year ago
@paxcoder Don't be silly. None of the refutations of the cosmological argument in this video(and there are several, you should probably watch it again) hinge on a "creation"(whatever that means) of the universe defying logic. It's just that the lack of evidence is so profound that even this is a possibility. Also, the machine argument specifically stated that the machine did not have to be sentient. Either way, you clearly have no idea what you mean by "God" if you'll embrace a pile of gears.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
@Gnomefro meh
paxcoder 1 year ago
"The creation of universe defies logic"
because there would be no time to create time...logical paradox
began to exist is not necessarily created...like you began to exist but you weren't necessarily created by magic out of nothing...your parents had sex
now you can say God did it but then you would need to prove his existence without begging the question or resorting to circular logic.
Abgef 1 year ago
This is absolute pwnage!
klasco1991 1 year ago
i thought the cosmological argument was ..
whatever begins to exists - has a cause... i guess i'm going off of bill craigs argument here
lukeism2 1 year ago
Very well articulated, and I love your choice of graphics- most especially the Darth Vader shot!
1RationalMind 1 year ago
scribd (dot) com/nb812
DreamsofMajesty 1 year ago
lulz at the fapping
pwed546 1 year ago
show proof of anything in the universe that begot itself, demostrate anything and the universe that made itself out of thin air, provide a sample of anything in the universe that procreated itself from nothing. Then and only then,will I listen, 'till then, all this is nothing but a pathetic excuse for self inflicted blindnesss.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@laninarushy I can see where you're trying to go with this, and I will warn you now that it's self refuting. You're trying to argue that something can't come from nothing. I take it you view God as an exception to this rule. But on what grounds do you exempt God? Why not just exempt the big bang, or the God-machine, or the other examples mentioned in this video? Or you could even be honest and say "I don't know why there is something rather than nothing."
Nykytyne2 1 year ago 22
@Nykytyne2 On what grounds do I exempt God? on the grounds that God falls outside anything we are able to categorize, he does not fit into any box you can conceive of, he is timeless, spaceless, and all eternal, if he was not any of these things, HE WOULD NOT BE GOD! You want to be able to comprehend, understand, dissect, and study GOD as if he were a "bug". This arrogance knows no limits.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@Nykytyne2 Compared to GOD, humans are limited and small & always will be, look all around, the more we know and learn the more there is to learn and know. Here is where FAITH comes in, but only if u are humble enough to admit no matter how long you live u will never have all the answers. The Bible says God works in mysterious ways, TRUST is of the essence. You can't believe with out it.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@Nykytyne2 Because the big bang doesn't have a book written by the big bang that says that the big bang is all powerful, perfect, fallacious, loving, angry, forgiving, vengeful and eternal.
Squiglypig 1 year ago
dude this is fucking genius...not complicated & an easy to understand refutation...pls make the one about ontological & about argument from morality
Abgef 1 year ago
Howdy! Here is a great demonstration :) Laurence Krauss 'A universe from nothing' video demonstrates how the universe made itself. For some reason youtube won't let me give you the link. If you paste the title, it will come up.
Brownwith0 1 year ago
Idiotic with out logic
laninarushy 1 year ago
your a mess. A fact is that no matter how little we brake down matter, it still doesn't have a naturalistic explanation for its existence in itself. the fact that we can differentiate between existence and non existence, is proof there are boundaries. If there are boundaries who sets them? Existence is unexplainable.
gordonculp 2 years ago
So there are boundaries between existance and non existence
What caused god?
RazielKain 2 years ago
dimensions
gordonculp 2 years ago
I like the TeaLeafOlogical (TLO) argument.
There is tea, it is logical. therefore we exist.
It makes me conscious therefore I am.
Seriously though, something exists, time, space, matter are properties of it.
It is not divided into magical warring beings.
Whatever it is, be it infinite or just part of a cardboard box floating in some massive field, it is what we call God or Nature or dunno.
We do not know a heck more about it than we can see with Hubble and the LHC.
we are finding out.
marsCubed 2 years ago
Your argument is self refuting. An intelligent mind *is* high level of complexity, so you're basically just stating that complexity does not need an explanation, which removes the need to invent a god in the first place.
And of course, there's the problem that the only minds who know of are contingent on physical brains.
And to top it off, the basic reasoning in the cosmological argument falls apart when you introduce uncertainty - so it's not relevant given modern understanding of physics.
Gnomefro 2 years ago
Soo... Nothing made everything you say?
OpenTheo 2 years ago
Great video, I wish it was mandatory in schools to teach basic logic and some recognition of faulty logic and fallacies. Then everyone would be in even ground to reason together about anything including god.
orcodrilo 2 years ago
You may get your wish one day...
More deluded folks walking about.
OpenTheo 2 years ago
Every Monad is a mirror of the Universe, as Leibniz said. Look at how the human body work and you will understand the universe. The universe is a huge organism seeking infinite perfection. Its energy with will. It is always becoming something. It never is. Only absolute perfection is and always will be. It's so simple that only a child can understand.
atessmann 2 years ago
Comment removed
orcodrilo 2 years ago
Wow, raises questions and offers no argument.
ero06 2 years ago
Big Appeal to ignorance fallacy in this video...
JaffarDS 2 years ago
Pff give me a bear and i can come with a cosmological speculation that is more plausible than god.
and i can fit data ala ad hoc in it too!
DemokritosAbdera 2 years ago
My last counter to the video is that the first cause's initiation of the universe could plausibly have occurred simultaneously with the initiation of time; that is to say that the instant in which time began the universe was created. So I find it entirely plausible that the cosmological argument still points to God, though it takes other arguments to cumulatively present the case for the Christian God.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
that is why dont like christians apologist, so narrow minded.
DemokritosAbdera 2 years ago
What do you mean?
Teachthecross 2 years ago
if you were to propose scenarios for the cosmological origins, is really only those options you get?
i mean, you cant think on anything else?
DemokritosAbdera 2 years ago
I suppose it doesn't have to be Yahweh, but based upon the data, it would have to be some sort of personal agent. And morally speaking, I think Yahweh is the best answer, because unlike Allah, the flying spaghetti monster, and the others listed, the God of the Bible loves even His enemies, and is therefore morally superior. Furthermore I think Yahweh is better supported by the teleological and moral arguments, and is by far the best explanation for the events concerning Jesus' Resurrection.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
no i mean really really really, you cant think in any other scenario for the origin of the universe?
DemokritosAbdera 2 years ago
Yes, but imagination and reality are very different. Certain scenarios, such as the Multiple-Universe theory, the Steady-State theory, or the cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches, are all either seriously lacking evidence, or, in the case of the latter two, proven false. I could think of many theories, and could imagine virtually anything, but if it has no basis in reality, then I find it unworthy of thought, especially given the implications of such as view as the Christian faith.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
so has there any "pre-big bang" theory a lot of confirmatory evidence? just wondering because you seem to dismiss all the other hyphothesis except yours.
What about an asymptotical time that behaves according to the penrose-hawkins theorems?, what about adynamical acausal interpretations of quantum mechanics? what about virtual particle-antiparticle splits?
what if the universe beyond the cosmic horizon is not uniform?
etc etc etc etc. That is why i call theologians narrow minded.
DemokritosAbdera 2 years ago
The god of the bible loves his enemies? I suppose you're one of those selective readers...
He ordered the mass slaughter of countless tribes in OT, even to the point of murdering the women and children of the Midianites - and taking the virgins as sex slaves. It's even claimed that he took direct miraculous action to assist his chosen people in the slaughter at times.
It's like claiming Allah burns nonbelievers in hell because he loves them.
Gnomefro 2 years ago
God loves his enemies.....
1 Samuel 15:2-3
2Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Maybe try reading the bible...
stefansv 2 years ago
I want to make two points:
1.Exodus 34:6-7 gives an answer to the problem you've presented. God can still judge sin even though He is compassionate and slow to anger. 2.Divine Command Theory states that whatever command God gives us becomes our moral duty. God commanded Israel to eliminate Amalek based upon His righteous nature which judged their sin; in the absence of such a command it would be wrong to wipe out an entire people group.
I don't have enough space to go any more in depth.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
Killing every man, woman, INFANT and SUCKLING....
I mean come on, even the animals, defending this makes you morally bankrupt and you are no better then a nazi trying to defend what Hitler did.
Don´t care what the Amalek did, this is in no way righteous, neither was god making a child sick for 7days and killing it ,or killing all the first born in all of Egypt because of one man not doing what god wanted.
"utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not",
God of "love" indeed
stefansv 2 years ago 2
By what standard am I "morally bankrupt"?
Ignoring 1 Samuel 15: 2-3 for the moment, let's discuss God killing individuals directly. If God, insofar as the Bible describes Him, not only created life, but also sustains it, how does He do anything morally wrong to cease maintaining it? It will be important to note that the purpose of life according to the Bible is not to be happy (otherwise I would agree with you) but to have a saving knowledge of God.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
Wow, I mean damnnnn, so what, god can do anything and you would be ok with that?
In the bible he commands people to murder and destroy everything, sometimes it´s ok to take women for yourself if they are pretty and what, this is ok because it´s in the bible?
Come on man, stop defending the horrible stuff that is in the bible, open your eyes for a second and see the bible for what it is, a poorly written book of fiction!
stefansv 2 years ago 10
God gives commands which stem from His nature, which is necessarily good. When I say His nature is good, I mean ontologically, that is to say that God is the foundation of moral goodness by definition, not simply that we must call whatever God does 'good' even if it is not. Insofar as the Bible has truth value (which must be assumed to be true to even have this discussion), God gives morally perfect commands. You don't have to like that answer, but I see no reason to believe that it's wrong.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
@stefansv If God commanded people to go to war, eradicate, destroy then God knew it was for the benefit of the few righteous & it needed to be done, who ru to question God? to know what is in the best interest of humanity? to determine God's intentions? Evil, like a cancer must be destroyed God is also merciful, & God takes care of any injustices in his own way. Perhaps we would not be here if those actions had not been taken.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@laninarushy
Are you telling me that every first born in Egypt was evil? Are you telling me that David´s son was evil when god made him sick for 7 days and then killed him to punish David? What about when soldiers smashed that babys and ravished (rape?) (Isaiah 13:16 Isaiah)the women and god is own their side(Isaiah 13-6)?
Who am I to question god, as a moral and good person I can question the character of the bible just like I can question Hitler and I judge them both to be evil!
stefansv 1 year ago
@stefansv Please!! not another " whinny wimpy God-is- not -fair- girly boy"
To save millions of lives, resources, & time, the US Gov. dropped the A-bomb on Japan. Did inocent Japanese died? Yes, but ten- fold were saved. If it is good enough for man, who are U to judge God?
THE BIBLE is not a fairy tale! it is a true description life's and man's highest highs and lowest lows, it spares no gruesome details. It is not for the feable minded or weak in spirit. GROW UP!
laninarushy 1 year ago
@laninarushy
Please!! Not another "crazy christian that takes the bible out of context to fit his twisted view of Jesus and pals"
Are you comparing bombing Japan to god killing the every first born in Egypt, from the pharos child, to the child of the slave at the mill, because of man did not want to do what god ordered?
.
stefansv 1 year ago
@laninarushy
(cont)
And you do know that god hardent pharos heart right?
Exodus 4:21 And the LORD said to Moses, When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
stefansv 1 year ago
@stefansv Lesson 1, are you like the Pharaoh ? is your own heart ans spirit so hard that no matter what evidence is presented before you you will refuse to see what God wants you to see? Is the materialistic dogma which reduces man to a product of blind- unguided- chance fullfilling all your human desires and needs?
If that is the case maybe God will harden your heart too. I am sure he will give you more than 10 chances to re-consider, how many have you wasted?
laninarushy 1 year ago
@laninarushy
4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.
It seems to me god knew the pharaoh was gonna let them go but god didnt want that because he wanted to flex his might.
Again, you can try and take this out of context and twist it to your view of the bible but this is pretty clear if you read the bible, no ifs or buts.
stefansv 1 year ago
@laninarushy
And I know that you are gonna google this and find some way to take this out of context and twist in your favor, but that will just make you look dishonest because this is pretty clear.
Maybe you should read the bible for dummies, or, and this is just an idea, something else.
stefansv 1 year ago
@stefansv This is so simple! God knows what anyone is going to do before they do it.!Just like a parent knows the stubburness of his own child. If I had a drug addicted child who refused all help I would make sure he /she went to jail. God did the same thing here, how is that difficult to understand? God facilitated the Pharaoh's own capricious attitude (Ex. 8:15 and 32) and let him have it his way, but not without giving him 10 opportunities 1st.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@stefansv The pharaoh had 10 opportunities to save his nation, he rejected them all in an effort to come against God! HE alone condemned his people to all the plagues. God gives us warnings and opportunities, & multiple chances.
Isaiah 13 was all about God's retribution & judgement against the sinful pagan nation of Babylon (pd Iraq) in defense of his people (pd Israel). God demostrates loyalty and protection for those who reject wickedness.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@stefansv The little insignificant know -it -all human sits in judgment of the ALL MIGHTY GOD! The God he does not believe EXISTS! I may add. Is this odd or strange? It is completely devoid of logic, but so typical of atheists. Since u have demonstrated to be lacking in basic Bible knowledge, may I suggest The Bible for Dummies, later move on to more advanced works, it may help u sound less ignorant.
laninarushy 1 year ago
"Poorly written book of fiction"not realy, you say it says to murder and destroy but if you read the whole thing and not skip lines and chapters. You would come to relize the people in this book have a reason for what they are doing, be it kill or or take someones woman.Also the bible has more archeological evidence for what it says then any other book ever written.i hope you are able to see the truth eventualy.
22monkeymadness 10 months ago
@22monkeymadness people who don't want to know, won't listen mate. They just wait for their turn to talk.
JordanRossMackenzie 7 months ago
@stefansv Do you posses all the knowledge that God possed when he made those commands? were you present when God gave those commands? did you know the evil, peril, danger, that would have taken place had not God given those commands ? was God siding with the righteous against the evil and perverted? do you know more than God? I do not think so, U just like to sit in judgement , thats all.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@laninarushy
Do you?
I bet when you read the bible and god does something good you don´t think twice about it, but when he does something evil, oh he had the right.
You also like to sit in judgement, I just judge your god and the good things he does and the bad things, you just see the good things.
stefansv 1 year ago
@laninarushy
(cont)
How about you ask yourself these questions, all I have is the bible, the bible I believed in myself for 15 years but then started to read with an open mind and not like you, really really wanting it to be true and again, taking things out of context and twisting it to fit your twisted view where everything god does is ok, makes you sound like a nazi defending what Hitler did....
stefansv 1 year ago
@stefansv By ur screeds I can tell ur brain is a nebulous mess, you are fixated in the "small strokes" rather than the obvious "magnificent work of art" in front of you. Negativity and self inflicted blindness will be ur demise. Your views are absurd, pernicious, self defeated, and quite illogical. I bet u are a stick in the mud too. This discussion has run its course, have a Godless, pagan, atheist, & materialistic felicitous life . U have my pity.
laninarushy 1 year ago
@laninarushy
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh, you arent kidding with the negativity....
HAhahhahahahahh
If only you knew me! I am as positive as they come and open minded, and you know what, I am not gonna judge you like you did me, but I am gonna say this. You do take things out of contaxt and you do twist things to fit your view, and I do hope you open your eyes like i did....
stefansv 1 year ago
@laninarushy
(cont)
This discussion should have ended when you couldnt even admit that god hardent the pharaos heart, but instead you try and give excuses for your god even though it says it in black and white in the bible....
So enjoy wasting your time believing your imagenery friend in the sky, you sir, have my pity...
stefansv 1 year ago
@laninarushy
(cont)
This discussion should have ended when you couldnt even admit that god hardent the pharaos heart, but instead you try and give excuses for your god even though it says it in black and white in the bible....
So enjoy wasting your time believing your imaginary friend in the sky.
stefansv 1 year ago
If the universe has an infinite past, then we could never arrive at this present, because there would be a never-ending number of events that preceeded this moment. Thus apart from the explanation of the Big Bang, it stands to reason that the universe is not eternal. As for the first premise, that anything which begins to exist must have a cause, this is an evident metaphysical premise, which explains why, for example, no one would expect a horse to materialize when they're driving.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
@Teachthecross
Could not this moment be one of those events?
stefansv 1 year ago
@stefansv
As an example, it took a finite amount of time for you to respond to my comment, but if you took an infinite amount of time to respond, you never would, since there would always be an instant in time before your response. In similar fashion, were there an actually infinite past, one could never arrive at a point at which man evolved, because an infinite number of moments in time preceded man's evolution.
Teachthecross 1 year ago
@Teachthecross
But if god is infinite, doesnt this apply to him?
stefansv 1 year ago
@stefansv
God is infinite, but time began simultaneously with the creation of the universe, so God existed timelessly until the until the universe began.
Teachthecross 1 year ago
@Teachthecross
Well, until you get some proof of this very improbable god im gonna keep an open mind and this god as one of the least likley cause.
stefansv 1 year ago
@stefansv
The Cosmological Argument is a form of deductive proof of God. If both premises are true, then it follows that the universe has a timeless, immaterial cause. This only leaves us with two choices: an impersonal abstract entity or a personal one. But if an impersonal entity possessed the properties necessary for bringing forth the universe, the universe would either eternally exist or never exist. Only a personal agent can bring forth a finite effect.
Teachthecross 1 year ago
If the first cause is responsible for the universe, which is the origin of space and time, then it follows logically that the cause of the universe is timeless and immaterial. In order for this first uncaused cause to initiate the universe, it must be a personal agent, one that is able to decide to act, for if not, the ability to cause the universe to exist would either never occur, resulting in no universe, or activate in the infinite past, resulting in an eternal universe.
Teachthecross 2 years ago
Pretty good. You should've also touched on "If God does exist, what caused God?" and Multiverse Theory.
BFC2011 2 years ago
Most of that was good except that the cosmological argument uses the fact that the actual world came into existence as opposed to many possible worlds as the evidence that some agent had to choose which possible world would come into existence.
robespierre91 2 years ago
Not once did I saw, "whuh?!!!" during this video :) Off to watch part two--hoping you make more someday soon.
beetlecommathe 2 years ago
5:38 = megaLOL
good video! keep 'em comming!
kittygirl792 2 years ago
Well done. Concise, clear, and relatively jargon-free. Deserves a wider audience.
pirbird14 2 years ago 2
cool video
lysergicaddict 2 years ago
words are inane, they just obstruct our view. The more we use them, the more dependent we are upon them. We will never be able to see the truth with words. Its like trying to use english to write machine code and expect programs to function, its absolute gibberish and means nothing except to our illusory story mode we create to survive the 3d experience. I think we have survival down, lets evolve already.
I like 5-MeO-DMT and psychics. They get to the point before the point is made.
lysergicaddict 2 years ago
"It is possible that the origins of the universe defy logic and human understanding altogether"
By stating that, you pretty much say that God could exist. You see, in this video, every conclusion you draw, including the one I quoted are derived from human logic and understanding. So while logic does not neccessarily state blatantly that God exists, it does leave that as a possibility, does it not?
FaithWillSetYouFree 2 years ago
I don't think he disputed that. He merely pointed out that the cosmological argument fials to produce a god of sorts.
Skaryon 2 years ago
You lost me at 4:41, are you trying to state that we cannot talk about things that happened before the big bang? Why not? Time as we know it today we have decided began at the big bang, but something must have happened BEFORE the big bang to make the big bang happen. Something or someone may have set something in motion that made the things that made the big bang. This does not prove a god, but it does not disprove it either, agreed?
KiheiLawyer 2 years ago
KiheiLawyer-
Nothing need have started the big bang. Why would you think that? Why does there have to be something before that? Are you sure time is linear, and not simply a parameter or dimension? We could be in a four-dimensional complex, and in that case the concepts of "starting" and "before" are meaningless.
AbeChang2 2 years ago
Something is not created out of nothing within human explanation. Time is a human concept. Thus time as we know it began at the big bang. Of course something had to create the big bang. Something doesn't come from nothing. What that something is or was will probably always escape human understanding. You are correct that the start of our time could be a dimensional shift. Regardless, something happened before the big bang.
KiheiLawyer 2 years ago
Before the big bang, time did not exist. The concept of "before" implies chronology. Chronology does not exist outside of time. Therefore, as the domain of time is (0, ∞), nothing could have happened "before" the big bang.
AbeChang2 2 years ago
nice try CHILD, but U said time "as we know it" OBVIOUSLY implies that in the domain of time, "time" as defined by humans did not exist before the big bang, but that does not mean "nothing" could have happened before a defined "time". You people are so incapable of following such simple ideas. You people act so lofty, yet are so minor league.
KiheiLawyer 2 years ago
The most important thing said is this: It is possible that the origins of the universe defy logic and human understanding altogether. I'd say it's more than possible, I'd say it's about 99.9% likely that we have no way of even comprehending why or where it all started. Prior to that, the ways that we've come to understand things no longer hold true, so it could be a gigantic jellyfish, it could be a bearded man, or it could be that we are but one droplet poured from Darth Vader's brita pitcher.
WoodsUlmann 2 years ago
great job on this video!
yustforfunonly 2 years ago
Good video! Thank you
Phyle9 2 years ago
watch?v=HF32i-yWGJU
Feldmm1 2 years ago
watch?v=aEfcR3A3q1s
Krakko44 2 years ago
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously in the land before time with the invisible pink unicorn.
jbz3 2 years ago
lol fapping at 1:38
spardaking 2 years ago
favorited, this is by far the most concise refutation of the cosmological argument I have seen so far.
DanielCriticalMX 2 years ago 2
Lovely video! Fantastic as per usual.
sh1terider46 2 years ago
can someone explain to me what this al-something razor is?
dragonofthedarknight 2 years ago
> can someone explain to me what this
> al-something razor is?
Occam's razor:
The explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible.
The hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions is the most superior, if all other aspects are equal.
ByeCruelWorld 2 years ago
dragonofthedarknight, a more humble answer would be:
"the simplest answer is "often" the correct answer."
blugreenblu 2 years ago
> a more humble answer would be
Humble? I wasn't aware that going to wikipedia to copy/paste the definition of Occam's razor, so that the person didn't have to go look it up themselves, was being pious
> the simplest answer is "often" the correct answer
That isn't what means at all. For instance, you can't get any simpler an answer than 'god did it', yet that is a very unsatisfactory answer and it is extremely unlikely to be true, especially if citing a particular god
ByeCruelWorld 2 years ago
Comment removed
blugreenblu 2 years ago
of course "god did it" is unsatisfactory. an answer is only an answer if it's right.
relax, and don't be so pious.
blugreenblu 2 years ago
> relax, and don't be so pious
You can fuck right off, pal.
I helped someone with an accurate definition of occam's razor, you disrespected the work I put into that, and suggested that your ignorant layman's version, which wasn't at all accurate, was somehow better, when it clearly showed no fucking understanding of the principle and was misleading.
Just because you are stupid and/or under-educated , doesn't make me pious.
ByeCruelWorld 2 years ago
ZOMGitscriss's name is pronounced "zoh-my-god-its-chris".
She made a video explaining that a while back.
Arfalarf 2 years ago
she doesn't care too much... he always calls her it on blogtv and she doesn't correct him :P
spardaking 2 years ago
Very good video. You are a very smart young man. Keep up the good work.
tsugua27 2 years ago
"We must accept our agnosticism about the universe".
This is precisely what many theists (and even deists) take pains to avoid. The human mind want to "know". It wants explanation. Where none currently exists, rather than saying "we're working on it", they feel compelled to answer. They prefer a "just-so" story to "no answer presently".
This is an extremely human failing. It doesn't make them idiots, but it does mean they aren't working very hard on their weaknesses.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Exactly... but I find that many atheists DON'T accept our agnosticism about the universe. They only have FAITH that there is no deity, just as others have faith that there is. But they don't see it that way. They see themselves as 'enlightened', when in fact, they are relying on the same information as the rest of us. We CANNOT know, at least at this point, because prior to the creation of the universe, every way with which we come to understand anything ceases to matter or perhaps even exist.
WoodsUlmann 2 years ago
I hear your complaint. But understand what many of us mean when we describe ourselves as "atheists". We don't believe in the existence of any deities. That's it.
Now, it's possible that you think the very same thing, and if you prefer the *label* agnostic to the *label* atheist, that's fine with me. I'm sure you and I can agree that whatever we *believe*, we are willing to change that belief if sufficient evidence is provided.
With no evidence for deity, I believe no deity exists.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Additionally, I can go further and say that while I don't believe in deities, I am as certain as it is possible for me to be that the deity described in the Old Testament does not exist.
There are too many factual claims about nature which have been shown to be other than explained in that document.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Zomgitscriss may be a god(dess), but she's not a zombie. :-D
roentgen571 2 years ago
the cosmological argument can be turned around to prove the exact opposite— That god doesn't exist.
So in order for all of these premises to be true, god must exist outside of the natural world/universe. Therefore, He/she/it/ exists nowhere.
in order for god to create the universe he must exist before time began. Therefore, he exists never.
God is outside the laws of causality, therefore he was never caused.
So there you have it, god exists nowhere and never and was never caused.Makes sense
Ninjauman558 2 years ago
Ninjauman558: If the universe is merely an arrangement of the thoughts of God in a manner that creates a 'distinction' between them and Himself, there is no concept of Him being 'outside everything and therefore nowhere', etc. People always blind themselves with conceptual gymnastics. We can't grasp the concept of an uncaused cause, and an infinite regression of causes is impossible, because a countable infinity is a contradiction in terms. So, how ultimate causality works is a mystery to us
Alenandme 2 years ago
Brilliantly clear... and I loved the small cameo for zomgitscriss :)
atheistcrow 2 years ago
the multiverse is increate.
anthropocentrism creates the parallax of abstraction.
nondor13 2 years ago
You can't deal properly with so many arguments in 6 minutes. I will only mention that physicists don't like, and are not good at, philosophy, and are liable to come up with the most contradictory nonsense possible. What could the 'beginning of time' possibly mean? 'Beginning' means 'was not and then was'. To eliminate 'was not' from the meaning does not create a new meaning, but only completely destroys the word 'beginning' altogether. 'Beginning of time' is only a meaningless pseudo-concept.
Alenandme 2 years ago
Do you 4chan sir?
ArjunaMysterytramp 2 years ago
Keep fightin' the good fight, bro.
cha0sLovesFB 2 years ago
This reminds me of cdk007's videos.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
agnostics are teh gai,
there is no god, absolutely no evidence what so zero.
to even consider that a magical man has created anything is just silly and retarded and wasteful thinking
fantasticalNINJA 2 years ago
Wow, that was great. My brain hurts.
toastknight 2 years ago
nnnnNNNoooooooooOO! not their precious cosmological argument! :O
Ninjauman558 2 years ago
"zombiechris"..yummmmmmm
216trixie 2 years ago
"Fapping"?? lulz
216trixie 2 years ago
lol at "zombie chris" reference. well done sir! i feel honored that i am one of the few who will understand it.
tomfrankly 2 years ago
On the one hand, it's an interesting subject to review... but on the other, it's somewhat disheartening that it is necessary for videos like this to be made...
I wonder what I mean by common sense? Things which are clear to me logically seem to be common sense, and yet it is not so.
BoundlessEyes 2 years ago
When examined the same is true of the word evidence or evidence. The sole thing that determines what perceiving (as opposed to perception which cannot be demonstrated to exist) MEAN or exists AS WHAT, the one and only thing that makes somthing obvious or evident is interpretation which differs from one person to the next because it is purely subjective. That doesn't stop the human mind from deifying it's "perceptions" subjectively interpreted as objective REALITY and as a superior perspective.
Cashify 2 years ago
You are still a long long way off from proving proof exists as anything objective.
Show me first where perceiving becomes a static thing in itself perception as opposed to an imaginary abstraction, then show me what makes certain perceptions evidence, while others are not, then show me that there exists an objective standard of sufficient evidence to become proof which doesn't vary from person to person, situation to situation. Show me its more than subjective interpretation, your GOD.
Cashify 2 years ago
Your God is evidence, call him lord empircus. You can't prove your personl lord and savior exists at all, but that does not stop you from declaring perceptions inspired by the lord empiricus, your savior, are superior to the perspectives of other people of faith like yourself.
Cashify 2 years ago
Oh how I love studying philosophy. Stay groovy Nick :)
MrMontagne 2 years ago
1:35 list of possible causes
popeyroach 2 years ago
Lmao you listed "My Cock."
mecher3k 2 years ago 2
ending very concise , beginning bit of a ramble ,but this is hard stuff to articulate ,and I've been on the beer again so maybe it's me not comprehending, lol .
sausage4mash 2 years ago
It was Gus the magic hippo that farted the universe into existence.
leorcc 2 years ago
This format is great. I hope to see more videos presented in this manner (outside of the Doubt 101 series you have announced). Contents are great too, as usual.
Waldheri 2 years ago
too bad you only focussed on 1 specific version of the cosmological argument. there are after all a lot more.
Knowntje 2 years ago
Darth Vader mixing something in the ocean... that might be it!
Jegermeister0 2 years ago
U FAIL!!! U FAIL AS A PERSON if u dont beleive then ull go to hell its as simple as taht so why dont u shut up and just kill urself becuase nobody cares about u LOSER!!!
Haha... Just kidding. I was just trying out my "angry brainwashed Christian" impression. How did I do?
Rationalific 2 years ago
yup, that was all kinds of crazy.
thorungal 2 years ago
not bad I started to rage
sausage4mash 2 years ago
spoken like a true christian.
LOL
5quintessential5 2 years ago
Brilliant resumé
wonderpope 2 years ago
Completely logical! Very smart you are kid!
TurkishPoltergeist69 2 years ago
well done ;)
tattooskin72 2 years ago
Excellent...encore.
dave28lax 2 years ago
Top notch motherfucking shit.
tryan4eva 2 years ago