It's sad to say that 99 percent of Mormans that see this will still disagree and disown this man. He has found the real Truth in our Lord Jesus Christ. God bless this man.
How can you say the bible does not teach works are necessary for salvation? Would you like references? Again, Paul was teaching that the law of Moses was fulfilled and that the Jews would never save themselves by still obeying it. There are hundreds of vs that state sinners cannot enter the Kingdom of God and that works are absolutely necessary for salvation. If you were a history buff you would also know that every one of the early Christian writers taught faith+works=salvation.
@uhp100 not correct. the bible says a man must be born again. and a true conversion by the power of god will change u drasticly. u will have new desires and u will bare fruit. how can u claim uve had an encounter with god and not be changed. works are the evidence of this new nature and trasformation by gods power. they do not earn u anything. u are blessed to be able to serve god not serving to earn. if u could earn ur way into heaven then what did christ die for?
@lravenhill I don't disagree with you. Mosiah 27:25 "...marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindred, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, becoming his sons and his daughters." Alma 5:14 "...have ye spiritually been born of God?Have ye received his image in your countenance? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?" I think it's great you've done this but what about those who claim to be christians but don't "change"?What is their fate?
@uhp100 depart from me you workers of eniquity i never knew u. grab those who did not want them to be lord over them and slay them before. why do u call me lord and do not what i say. those who do not bear good fruit are cut down and thrown into the fire. u are merly found to be in the faith by ur works to have recieved this newheart.
@lravenhill "why do u call me lord and do not what i say. those who do not bear good fruit are cut down and thrown into the fire" Exactly! What do you think fruits are? Works! If you bear no fruit to hell you will go. Modern day christendom is an open license to sin. Do you agree with that?
@uhp100 absolutly not. a true christian receives a new heart with new desires. u keep puttin the cart before the horse. if u love the things of this world the love of the father is not in u. if ur sinning its because uve never had an encounter with christ not that ur losing ur salvation
@lravenhill You're right "absolutely not" but then what are the consequences of a "Christian" who reverts to adultery, fornication, thievery, etc? If it's not an open license to sin then what are the consequences of a sinner?
@uhp100 anyone who the father loves he diciplines. if ur walkin that narrow path and u step off then the father will come for u. christians can sin. but they can not live in habitual sin. whether u are convicted and broken or rebuked by someone he will correct u. if not u are not his
@lravenhill So you're saying that if you live in habitual sin then you are not really a Christian and therefore not saved. Correct? So then you have to do your best to keep the commandments even though we all will fall short. Right?
@uhp100 lol u crack me up. u just cant see this diffrence. its like u sayin u have to try to eat a couple meals a day. im sayin believe me i dont have to try. my nature will just tell me to eat. ur sayin well if u miss a meal ull try harder right. im sayin im not tryin ill be twice as irritated and twice as hunugry. kind of odd refrence but tryin to point out its ur nature there no try. me eating is just the evidence that thats what i wanna do
@lravenhill I kinda get what ur saying but again, ur teaching me LDS doctrine. We don't earn our salvation. We show God that we are changed by our fruits (works). If we have not been born again then we truly aren't Christian. So we agree on this point. But evangelicals for the most part disagree with you. They believe that once saved, always saved no matter what. That's not biblical.
@uhp100 we dont show god by our works!!! lol.. god knows the heart. christ is telling men how they can see if christ is in them. u will know them by there fruits. god knows if hes converted u. u could die that second and ud be fine. has nothing to do with showing god. god needs nothing from man nor requires anything from him
@lravenhill Oh boy. Here we go. Now ur contradicting yourself again. So he doesn't require us to keep the commandments? He doesn't require us to bring "good fruit" as you said before? Come on now. What is it? Fruits or no fruits? I'm tired too. Maybe another time.
@uhp100 lol im so not. please take a look at guy i recomended. will end this here. really important to get this diffrence.
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -not by works, so that no one can boast
@lravenhill Just watched "A Conversation With Paul Washer." I thought I was listening to my bishop. He is spot on. Problem is most evangelicals don't buy this. They believe "once saved, always saved" not matter what. I noticed a lot of people taking offense to what he is teaching. I actually agree with him for the most part. When you get up in the morning maybe you can answer this question and we'll clear a huge hurdle. In your mind, what are "works"?
@uhp100 litsin to some of his sermons.... what do u make of the verse.. they went out from us because they were not of us? .. and let me try this. scripture said we are dead in sin. we can do nothing. neither could lazarus obey the command to ccome forth unless he was already made alive. ur works are merely u being u after god gets ahold of u. if u say god has changed u but theres no change then he hasnt. the works show that after hating god hes now transformed u
@lravenhill "what do u make of the verse.. they went out from us because they were not of us?" Can you give me the reference? Also, I can bombard you with bible vs that say works are required for salvation but I haven't gone there yet. So far I'm just trying to make a logical point.
@uhp100 if urr outwardly doing good works and confessing the name of christ but u are trying to do the works. forcing yourself to do them. trying not to sin but u want to. then u are a lost man in a religion. u need changed by the power of god.
@lravenhill Agree, agree, agree. Once you are changed the desire to sin leaves you. We are empowered by God. We believe that the change that comes upon us will lead us to good works BUT if we never allow this change to come upon us then our good works really don't mean anything. If we have TRULY changed we will do good works because we love God and His children. However, if we aren't lead to these works then we are hypocrites because in the end the change never happened. What are "works"?
@uhp100 all the examples in scripture are lost men or saved men. wwheat or tares,, goats or sheep. theres 2 kinds of people those who are dead in sin and those who are dead to sin. thats it
@uhp100 if i walked into ur house and said i was just crushed by an 18 wheeler and i looked fine. u would say i was either lying or crazy. theres no way i can have an encounter with something as large as a truck and not be changed. which is bigger an 18 wheeler or god? the same way if u claim to had an encoounter and know him and not be changed the truth is not in u. its not the works that earn u annything. its the evidence u know and love him by his power. not urs
@lravenhill The scriptures from the BofM explain exactly what your telling me here. I also don't believe that we can "earn" our way to heaven. We are saved by the grace of God. Period. But to say "I'm a Christian" and continue to live a heathen life is not the life of someone who has been born again. That's where I'm coming from. We show God our change of heart by keeping His commandments and walking in his ways. Otherwise we are hypocrites and have no place in his Kingdom.
@uhp100 u say it as though ur saved and then u have to try to keep his commandments to prove u are part of his kingdom. heard morman say we try then jesus makes up the rest. im saying if u truly are born again its ur new nature. u now love what god loves and hates what he hates. if ur struggling to keep his commandments and its a burden to u then thats a lost man playing religion
@lravenhill "im saying if u truly are born again its ur new nature. u now love what god loves and hates what he hates." Bingo! I agree 100%. My question is what if the professed "Christian" doesn't become this person? What is his fate? I just want a straight answer to that question.
@uhp100 i already gave u scripture answers. if ur not a true christian then he never knew u. saying ur a christian means nothing. even the demons believe in christ and tremble. only god can see the heart of a man. but men can only see the actions of a man. my answer is if u did not recieve christs atonment then u will have to pay for ur own sins in hell
@lravenhill ur right, the thief wasn't baptised. You're right he went to paradise "this day" with Christ. However paradise is not heaven. It is also called "Hades" or "waiting place". Remember, Christ told Mary AFTER his resurrection (3 days later) "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my Father" 1 Peter teaches that Christ taught the spirits in heaven. Thats where he went THE SAME DAY that he and the thief died, not heaven. A study of earlier Christian teachings will verify this.
@uhp100 thanks i enjoyed convo as well. may i recomend u watch paul washer on youtube. he explains this salvation issue very well and hes the best preacher ive heard yet. please give him a try. might clear up this wall we have that u dont think we have lol
And for the record, a guy by the username TheSkepticChristian was mocking a guy on another video because he believes in the bible where it says in talking snakes and talking donkeys. He is a Mormon and defends his faith religiously.
You dont believe in the bible. You just admitted works are nessassary, when I just quoted two versus from the bible that say they dont.
"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
If you read the book of Acts you'll learn how the Jews despised Paul for constantly teaching against the law. Even the Jews that converted to Christianity continued to practice the works of the law (of Moses) thinking that it was still necessary.Study Acts and the words of Paul in context and it will become clear to you that he was preaching against the need to live the Law of Moses, it was fulfilled at Christ's death.Your bible consists of 6 or 8 verses that are taken completely out of context.
@uhp100 What are you talking about? I already said I am not a Christian and you acknowledged I wasnt too.
So basically what you're saying is, ignore the Biblical scriptures I just quoted and read acts instead. No thanks, ill read both and come to the judgement that the bible is the most hyporcritical book (beside the quran, BofM, D&C etc) on planet earth. They teach different things yet you say you believe in this book but dont believe what i just quoted lol
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." Eph 2: 8-9
uhp, you dont even believe Jesus is God lol Your church teaches he is literally the son of God and not God the father. Another epic fail in your claim to be Christian
I wish you were a Christian so that I can prove to you that you are completely wrong. The bible DOES NOT teach that salvation is gained by faith alone, far from it. You are misinterpreting a few obscure verses and ignoring the rest of the bible. Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles CLEARLY teaches that works are required for salvation.
@uhp100 I know what the bible says. Yes it contradicts itself in places just like the BofM and D&C does. But it says grace alone a lot more than it does about works.
I will quote a verse for you and I want you to explain it. No doubt you will twist the shit out it haha
Very interesting. You are the first evangelical that has said the "infallible" bible contradicts itself but it doesn't. Will you please tell me where the BOM and D&C contradict each other?
@uhp100 In D&C 107:53-54 we read of Christ showing Himself to Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah. In Ether 3:13-15 we are told "Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son [(?) (JHW)] . . . never have I showed myself unto man who I have created .D&C 124:22ff sets forth the practice of one being baptized on behalf of one who has previously died.This practice directly contradicts Alma 34:32-35 cant fit the verse here
@lravenhill Bapt. for the dead does not contradict Alma. It is not a conversion process. Before I go on let me set the stage. I'm sure you agree with me that NO man or woman can gain salvation except thru Christ. Some Evangelicals say that God will be merciful to those that haven't had a chance to receive him but the hard liners say no! EVERYONE must accept Christ (true) to be saved. As for those who die w/o the knowledge? Too bad! They are doomed to eternal burning in hell. Do you believe that?
@uhp100 whether one or they other is true i dont believe u can free a person from hell by proxy. i dont believe god would be just in that nor do i believe baptism is a requirment for salvation. thief on cross wasnt baptised. baptism is ur public expression of what u already have
@uhp100 "I wish you were a Christian so that I can prove to you that you are completely wrong. The bible DOES NOT teach that salvation is gained by faith alone, far from it." Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. I will add faith in Christ Jesus who justifies us.
My friend, you claim to have been a bishop which I don't dispute but you clearly do not understand the true doctrine of Jesus Christ. If you are caught up in the heresy known as evangelical christianity you have surely been deceived. I am a convert to the LDS church because of the things I have studied and know to be true. Modern day christendom is NOT biblical. Not only that but it is completely contrary to what was taught by the 1st century Christian scholars. Satan has deceived you.
@uhp100 Coming from this guy who is a Mormon? LOL You believe Jesus is Satans brother and that Jesus' atonement is not enough to guarantee your salvation to live with God. Im not even a Christian, but I sure know what one is. The Bible says faith in Jesus is all you need, and not of works so that no man can boast.
of course the book of mormon is true, it is as real as that book of Harry Potter. Jospeh Smith had made up a story only to deceive and take an advantage of many people.
Satan is a deceiver I Corinthians 11:12-15. Paul warns us about "another" gospel Galatians 1:8-9. Jesus Is GOD, there is one God. There's only one God. Isaiah 43:10. Its better to please God than man. Its better to sacrifice your family and friends and find the truth and go to heaven thru Jesus Christ and his shed blood that covers all sins then please man and burn in hell.
@beatleman69 "The Greeks had a first God, and second God, and third God, and the second was begotten by the first. And yet for all that....they considered all these one"
"I not only confess but I maintain, such a similitude of Plato's and John's Trinity doctrines as bespeaks a common origin." (Thirteenth letter to Dr. Priestley)
the Platonic or Grecian Trinity
Encyclopedia of Religion: "Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity."
@beatleman69 No, but the Trinity is biblical not pagan.
Not only are you wrong... but you are double wrong. It is found no where in the bible... and all the early writings are based on Greek philosophy. I wonder why that is...?
Yet the only ones that claimed JS practiced polygamy were ex'd members that had a grudge against him... Was he sealed to them... that is what the records show... married... possible... DId he ever live with any of them... there is little to no proof...
@Sk8er408 Mormon historians will confirm that he was married to multiple women such as Tod Compton in his book "In Sacred Loneliness" . So, even LDS historians know that fact. Brigham Young and Joesph Smith were cut from the same cloth. So, would you try to convince me that Brigham Young didn't have sex with his many wives? The only difference between Joseph and Brigham was that Brigham didn't have to hide his polygamy deny it as Joesph did.
Believe what you want... as you will only believe what you want... whether it is coming from LDS historians or not... as long as it goes along with your belief system you will accept it.
@dantheman201190 How exactly are you going to know God's will either way? God does not give you direction unless you seek for it. The world is full of people going their own way and doing their own will, not God's, so I am not sure how you can make that statement unless I misunderstood.
Atheist are "happy" too so I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean.
God for something that he just ignores you and does what he wants any way? His will for us is that we be truly happy in this life and gain salvation in the next life that is why he sent His Son.
@love1another777 * His will for us is that we be truly happy in this life and gain salvation in the next life that is why he sent His Son.* And that work sorta pooped out, so god had to send Joseph Smith to fix things. Thank goodness for Joesph Smith's work or Christ would've died in vain, huh?
To know what is truth and to know God's will, to gain inspiration and guidance for your own life. It is far from a waste of time as God does hear and answer. Why would you not ask someone who is all knowing and who loves you for direction in your life, or for knowledge, understanding, guidance and to know their will for you? Why would you not go to someone who can show you a better way & a better life? Why do you think that when you ask
Seriously?! These are the same régurgitations of the Godmakers and every other anti-Mormon claim. They've all been refuted and even a superficial attempt and finding an answer will put these accusations in their place. I never blindly follow and have always found an explanation. ironically the different versions of the first vision parallel almost exactly to Paul's versions of his vision of the Savior. Nice try, but this isn't fooling anyone. Either he's a fool or has a big secret.
@jmhatutube *Either he's a fool or has a big secret.* If Earl's a fool if he doesn't know the personal cost this with have in his life, then he's a daring fool. How much would you lose? A lot of older men in the LDS church have come to understand it is a man-made organisation, but just keep quiet since they would lose family, friends, even employment in some cases.
@eeikman Every single person that I've seen in this situation has had something to hide, usually some form of sin. Since someone like you or I can never know for sure, it's likely we'll find out on the other side. It's not a man-made organization especially when you consider the Mormon church follows the Bible closer than anyone else. Not to mention he brought up some of the weakest arguments. It's more than obvious that there is something else going on.
@jmhatutube * It's more than obvious that there is something else going on.* That may be true, since the social pressure to remain an LDS are tremendous. It would take something of greater magnitude for Earl to break with the LDS church. It would have to be a supernatural event of God, or as you would believe something heinous. Until more details are available, if ever, I'll take Earl's story at face value.
@eeikman The social pressure to remain in any religion is tremendous especially when they are or have been a leader. Case in point; some atheists claim to be practicing Christian preacher but can't face the spiritual or financial reality of telling their congregation. As I see it there is as much pressure to get out of Mormonism as their is to stay in. I've just seen too many underlying reasons for leaving especially when someone was so involved as this guy. Assume what you will.
@jmhatutube * there is something else going on. * And on the flipside, there's plenty of men that have horrible, dark, unrepented sins that never leave your church. Even at the top. Many have dismissed Martha Nibley's accounts of abuse from the late great LDS apologists Hugh Nibley, but I find it very credible. I used to live in Utah Valley, and the scourge of sexual abuse was rampant among LDS that remained in good standing in the LDS church.
@eeikman First off, I never made any specific reference to what the "...something else" might be. It just more than a little suspicious especially base on the easily refutable claims.
Secondly, what ever individuals inside the church may or may not have done has nothing to do with it being true. If sins are not resolved then they will face God. I'd be very careful to judge it I were you. And for you to say sexual abuse was rampant is conjecture at best since you don't know for sure.
@jmhatutube *First off, I never made any specific reference to what the...* Whenever somebody apostates, suspicion that a sexual sin is involved is at the tippy top of the list. It's Mormon Culture 101.
* I'd be very careful to judge it I were you .. rampant * If you could talk to anyone in the mental health profession about the hidden problem of incest in Utah Valley, they'd blow your mind.
@eeikman It's not Mormon culture 101, it's just what typically happens. But not just with Mormons, ie: Jimmy Swaggart and a few other non-Mormons come to mind. Traditional Christian leadership certainly has contributed their share. Your assessment of an incest problem would certainly fail any sense of reality in most peoples minds. You can find what ever you want, if you look hard enough. Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else. You just choose to believe it is
@jmhatutube *Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else * The foundation of Mormonism based on control. Control and sex in human relationships can become a horrible tangle. The ugly truth is that the temples were created and the ceremonies were adapted from the nearest convenient source to justify Joseph Smith's harem. So, yes, from it's very foundation, Mormonism has contributed to a great deal of sexual abuse of women.
You have obviously and tragically bought into the lies and misrepresentations the enemies of the church have tried to perpetuate since the beginning. I'm not sure what religious persuasion you are but you significantly lack the critical eye where your assessment could also apply. Your critical assessment has little to do fact and more to do with a desire to place modern judgments on different culture. Isn't it ironic that it was female members and the church that advocated women voting.
@jmhatutube * You have obviously and tragically bought into the lies * Recognition that you've been decieved can be a truly ugly thing. It is usually violent at an emotional level. It's much easier to continue to believe that we weren't raised on untruth. Our minds protects us from this violent pain by allowing us to ignore the obvious and continue living from day to day.
@eeikman So then you're admitting your accusations are here-say? Are you also realizing that if what you claim is so rampent then there is plenty of evidence, thanks to your mental health care friends, to convict those who violate innocent virtue? I think your just bloviating to hear yourself talk.
@jmhatutube * little to do fact and more to do with a desire to place modern judgments on different culture * Forgery, fornication and adultery have always been evil. If Joseph Smith was not mentally stricken in some way, then he died unrepentant and is, according to the Bible, damned.
One other thing, most people critical of religion in general also state that the cornerstone of region is control and fear. Unless you atheist or agnostic, you're likely to draw the same criticism you try to apply to the Mormon church. Which isn't accurate just as your accusations toward the Mormon church and Joseph Smith aren't.
@jmhatutube * One other thing, most people critical of religion in general also state that the cornerstone of region is control and fear * Cults exist that say they are of Jesus, but preach that their sect is the only one that has authority, that you are damned in some way by leaving. Orthodox Christianity has no such dogma, there is no building or earthly organisation that has this authority. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this earth and Orthodox Christians understand what He meant.
@eeikman Cults do exist, but Mormonism is no more a cult that Christianity. Very few claim any authority except the Catholics and Mormons. Most just claim God told them something. As for Orthodox Christian dogma, you either really aren't familiar with it, or your just lying. Catholics claim absolut authority. Christ said we can only be saved through him he then ordained his apostles with the necessary authority. You don't seem to be too familiar with the Bible.
@jmhatutube * As for Orthodox Christian dogma, .. or your just lying. * The book "Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton is my line of thinking. And it's the authority of God's Word that is Absolute. It wasn't "anti Mormon" information that led me to finally break with that church it was a book by Brennan Manning called "Ruthless Trust". The contrast between Mormonism and Christianity as the book unfolded stunned me. The contrast between the Mormon "god" and the majesty of God stunned me.
@eeikman The authority of God's word comes through his authority. You can't pigeon-hole the entirety of God authority into the Bible. The bible doesn't do that it actually teaches the oposite. I know nothing specific of either of these books except they both seem to lean Catholic which makes a claim on priesthood authority. For me, It's the Bible and Book of Mormon that keep me devout LDS. Jesus the Christ is a big deal also. You obviously don't understand a Mormon understanding of God.
@jmhatutube * The bible doesn't do that it actually teaches the oposite.* Nope. Remember the man that was casting out demons in Christ's name? He was simply following Christ's words, period.
* I know nothing specific of either of these books except they both seem to lean Catholic * No. Brennan left the Catholic church and it's crushing legalism long ago. And G.K Chesterton leaning toward Catholicism? Your view of Christendom is quite clouded by that insular Mormon world.
@eeikman Maybe what I should have said is both writers seemed to have a Catholic background. Ultimately it's their viewpoint and I would get a type of philosophy. I'll stick to the Bible. My understanding of these authors may be cloudy, not my understanding of credal Christianity.
Casting out demons may not require the priesthood. There are plenty of references in the bible where Christ gave specific authority and that they needed to be called of God and couldn't take it upon themselves.
@eeikman How Jews view God differ greatly to how Christians do. They won't agree with you and see you as more of a polytheist than a monotheist. Besides, neither the old or new testament are the monotheism you claim. There are many references to the plural gods. Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let US make man in OUR.." is just one example. We worship the supreme God and our definition isn't different than the Bible - Others interpret it differently.
@jmhatutube * they needed to be called of God and couldn't take it upon themselves. * True. Such as David Livingstone that was driven by the call of God to preach of Christ in Africa. If a man feels driven to preach of Christ, that is what a call _is_ man. It isn't dispensed from a stuffy office by an dark-suited fellow that traces his authority to some early American magic user. I kept my Bible. Every day, I drive by the dumpster where I dumped the D&C, BoM and my patriarchal blessing.
@eeikman You're wrong. It states specifically in the new testament and the old that a man is called of God as was Aaron - through prophecy from a prophet, in the case of Aaron it was Moses. If you judge Joseph because of repented indiscretions then you probably don't like Paul to much when he was Saul. If you feel that dumping sacred documents that are God's word, whether you believe it or not, fine. But you will be judged for those things. But a warning like that likely falls on deaf ears.
@jmhatutube * If you feel that dumping sacred documents that are God's word * I kept God's word. I threw away the counterfeits. The counterfeits looked convincing, the Jacobean language of the KJV , bound with glided edges, too. But it's junk that will fade into obscurity like the works of the false prophet, Mani (also "martyred") and his once powerful and widespread religion of Manichaeism.
@eeikman Convince yourself how ever you want. I'm convince you wouldn't know God's word if it hit you squarely between the eyes, because it has and you still rejected it. The Bible and the Book of Mormon agree and compliment each other. They testify of Christ and they testify of each other. Joseph Smith will be in Gods courts with Adam, Noah, Abraham and all the other prophets and will be vilified by Christ himself. Of this I have no doubt.
@jmhatutube * Joseph Smith will be in Gods courts with Adam, Noah, Abraham and all the other prophets * That is a bit confusing considering the LDS doctrine of the 1850's that taught that Adam was the true father of Jesus. Yes, father Adam had sexual intercourse with Mary.
@eeikman Honestly you strike me as a little smarter than this. While there is little significant explanation behind why Brigham Young taught this, it was certainly not the consensus of the leadership and has since been refuted multiple times. That's the beauty of having the council of 12 apostles, as defined in Ephesians 4, which traditional Christianity ignores. This is how the doctrine stays as pure as possible, a huge problem with others. No one taught physical sex with Mary, that's a lie.
@eeikman Honestly you strike me as a little smarter than this. While there is little significant explanation behind why Brigham Young taught this, it was certainly not the consensus of the leadership and has since been refuted multiple times. That's the beauty of having the council of 12 apostles, as defined in Ephesians 4, which traditional Christianity ignores. This is how the doctrine stays as pure as possible, a huge problem with others. No one taught physical sex with Mary, that's a lie.
@jmhatutube * you wouldn't know God's word if it hit you squarely between the eyes * The truth is difficult to find, Yes. But what has become easy, due to the Information Age is that I can easily find you who is lying to me. The LDS church raised you and me on lies. Damned Lies.
@Sk8er408 * LOL... so you believe everything you read on the .net * Google books has been scanning in original documents that are searchable for some time now. Bad information was around long before the ".net", you must cross reference data just like the old days. I bought old printing of Vol 6. of the LDS church history just to read for myself Joseph Smith's rant about keeping a church together better than Jesus could. The rant really _was_ there. Just like it was on the ".net"
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Wow... did Peter sin willfully or not? Matt. 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
@Sk8er408 The point is, is that the reference on the .net referred to an actual occurrence. As do the references that your church once taught that Adam has sexual intercourse with the virgin Mary. Or that Joseph Smith referred to his youngest, 14 year old wife, as giving him the most pleasure that any women has ever given him.
Sorry... but it does not say that Adam had sexual intercourse with Mary... It does call Christ conception as natural as ours. And that it is not the Spirit that was the Father but in fact God was the Father. I'm not sure why you jump to the conclusion that their must have been sex involved. I think you antimormons love sex so much and feel it is dirty so you try to slander others with accusations of sex.
@Sk8er408 * . I'm not sure why you jump to the conclusion that their must have been sex involved. * The sexless polygamy of Joesph Smith and the other "prophets" is just a whitewash. The Mormon Celestial Kingdom cosmology was an extension of Joseph Smiths harem and his prolific sexual activity. It is a Carnal Heaven as Muhammad's "heaven' is carnal. These false prophets make a non-existent place where they can fornicate for Eternity.
@Sk8er408 * reading comprehension... not fill in the blanks.* "... it [Christ's body] was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve"
So, Cain, Abel and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve were spiritually begotten, with no carnal relationship required. Is that your logic? Huh? You are a son of Adam, you dork. How were you begotten?
I think you are missing the point... they were getting away form the immaculate conception... it was nothing magical but natural. He was not the Son of the Spirit but of God... No one has ever said sex was involved but the perverts like you. You guys love to speculate like it is truth without a doubt. Grow up.
You do understand that woman con conceive without ever having sex right? She conceived by the Spirit, Gods Son.
@Sk8er408 You can equivocate all day about the actions of Christ's Apostles, they are snow white compared to the filth of your church's founder Joseph Smith.
@UtahMormon90 Let's play The Patriarchal Blessing ~Wheel~of ~Fortune!
Well, Lad, let's give the wheel a spin and see who you are. (tick tick tick...) Ephraim it is! That's right, your of the tribe of Ephraim! And you're going to... help build god's kingdom, that's it. And, um.... you will be blessed with health and strength. Yes, yes, I very bright future. Just don't blow it boy, and leave the LDS church or it'll all be taken away. Hear me? You hear me boy? Just don't leave, or else!
@eeikman It's not Mormon culture 101, it's just what typically happens. But not just with Mormons, ie: Jimmy Swaggart and a few other non-Mormons come to mind. Traditional Christian leadership certainly has contributed their share. Your assessment of an incest problem would certainly fail any sense of reality in most peoples minds. You can find what ever you want, if you look hard enough. Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else. You just choose to believe it is
@eeikman It's not Mormon culture 101, it's just what typically happens. But not just with Mormons, ie: Jimmy Swaggart and a few other non-Mormons come to mind. Traditional Christian leadership certainly has contributed their share. Your assessment of an incest problem would certainly fail any sense of reality in most peoples minds. You can find what ever you want, if you look hard enough. Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else. You just choose to believe it is
@sonofcohen You are a disgrace to humanity. This testimony was nothing more than a fart in the wind. I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and I urge you to call a missionary today.
@UtahMormon90 haha, I love how you don't offer any arguments against his claims your just so sure there must be something wrong with the guy. Talked to missionaries many times. Have dinner with them sometimes. Still don't believe. Read the BOM, still don't believe. Why? Because I didn research, looked for truth and not just emotions. It's all a big scam. hate to break it to you but JS was a con man!
@dantheman201190 One must learn to know the difference between their own voice and God's. But that doesn't mean you don't ask God who is the only one who knows the truth. It means you pray in faith and humility, willing to submit and with an open mind.
@love1another777 "But that doesn't mean you don't ask God who is the only one who knows the truth. It means you pray in faith and humility, willing to submit and with an open mind." An vague response, for it dosen't answer the question of how do you know which God is the correct one? Is the God of Islam the correct God, or Allah as he is called by them, the God of the Moonies, or the JWS? They can't all be the correct God, for they all contradict one another correct? But does it matter to you?
To take God out of the equation in the search for truth is foolishness. All the Christian sects read the Bible yet they differ greatly. And what did people do before the Bible came to be? And even after, when only the rich and learned were allowed to read the Bible? God is the source of all truth & only God can tell someone what is and isn't truth. To base ones judgements soley on the tangible, even words of the Bible is to go against James 1 & Hebrews 11 and deny that God answers prayers.
@love1another777 "To take God out of the equation" Which God, the God of Mormonism, the JWS, Moonies, Oneness Islam...? Ah well, I guess it makes no difference. We all end up in the same place correct? "When I Get Home"
@love1another777 *And what did people do before the Bible came to be?* What "people" ? The Gentiles had nothing but the Pagan Virtues as taught by thinkers such as Aristotle. The Gentiles were grafted in only after Christ's work was finished. Such as You, yes You! You are a Gentile sweetums!
@love1another777 "Every mormon should listen to God" And of course, that's the problem. The Mormon God is an exalted man, who has many wives, and that every Mormon worthy male has the hope of becoming a god like your current heavenly father. This is NOT the of the Bible. "If any lack wisdom" Ahh yes, good old James, which Mormons quote out of context, much like all cultic groups do with passages from the Bible. "As we stumble along"
@jonayork Amen!! I have seen, There is a dramatic decline in the number of LDS members who believe, understand or even know of the tenets of true Mormonism. Whenever I meet someone of this faith, I politely ask them to explain portions of their "Doctrine and Covenants" and "Pearl of Great Price". Most of the time I am met with looks of bewilderment! They seem to be appalled at the very thought of doctrines such as "The Curse Of Cain" in which Blacks were believed to be spiritually inferior.
@Bacnow EXACTLY .. the draw of the squeaky-clean facade in a Social Club aspect, there the trap is set for the unsuspecting 'good-person' BUT when the light of the WORD is cast on the embarrassing false doctrine of the LDS leadership .. Mormon Doctrine is exposed as Blasphemous to God and oppressive to women and racist .. the TRUTH shall set us free in Jesus!
Mormonism is a man-made, false, works-based faith and not a relationship with God but just another damning, false, religious deception.
How about a stationary earth? Job did in chapter 38:6. In Genesis 1:16 in says the moon is a source of light. Capernicus and Galileo were persecuted for teaching against the earth being stationary and the sun rotating around us Joshua 10:12-14, Psalm 93:1 and Psalm 93:1. Do you really believe that belief trumps facts?
Well, @holidayrap,faced with such overwhelming facts to the contrary, if you believe that the church is true, I must then believe. Is that what you think? That if you believe, then is must be true, given all the fact contrary to your belief? Have you heard of the earth being flat and all the people that believed that? Do you know where that belief comes from? The Bible : Deuteronomy 13:7, 28:49, 28:64, 33:17. Job 2:8, 19:4, 22:27, 33:13, 48:10, 59:13, 61:2, 65:5, 72:8. Do you belief in that?
Drinking the kool aid doesn't make it less damaging. Good for you, UtahMormon90; do you really think you are the first one to think of bearing your testimony when confronted with facts that don't fit what you have been taught your entire life? Is that the best you have? Go on and live your deluded life and I will go on and live my happy one.
It's sad to say that 99 percent of Mormans that see this will still disagree and disown this man. He has found the real Truth in our Lord Jesus Christ. God bless this man.
scubadude72060 1 week ago 2
The actual heart of the matter is that Jesus loves you :)
TheSteeletube 1 week ago
This is an excellent vid. This man now has a testimony is Jesus Christ.
OneFabFisher 3 weeks ago
How can you say the bible does not teach works are necessary for salvation? Would you like references? Again, Paul was teaching that the law of Moses was fulfilled and that the Jews would never save themselves by still obeying it. There are hundreds of vs that state sinners cannot enter the Kingdom of God and that works are absolutely necessary for salvation. If you were a history buff you would also know that every one of the early Christian writers taught faith+works=salvation.
uhp100 4 weeks ago
@uhp100 not correct. the bible says a man must be born again. and a true conversion by the power of god will change u drasticly. u will have new desires and u will bare fruit. how can u claim uve had an encounter with god and not be changed. works are the evidence of this new nature and trasformation by gods power. they do not earn u anything. u are blessed to be able to serve god not serving to earn. if u could earn ur way into heaven then what did christ die for?
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill I don't disagree with you. Mosiah 27:25 "...marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindred, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, becoming his sons and his daughters." Alma 5:14 "...have ye spiritually been born of God?Have ye received his image in your countenance? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?" I think it's great you've done this but what about those who claim to be christians but don't "change"?What is their fate?
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 depart from me you workers of eniquity i never knew u. grab those who did not want them to be lord over them and slay them before. why do u call me lord and do not what i say. those who do not bear good fruit are cut down and thrown into the fire. u are merly found to be in the faith by ur works to have recieved this newheart.
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill "why do u call me lord and do not what i say. those who do not bear good fruit are cut down and thrown into the fire" Exactly! What do you think fruits are? Works! If you bear no fruit to hell you will go. Modern day christendom is an open license to sin. Do you agree with that?
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 absolutly not. a true christian receives a new heart with new desires. u keep puttin the cart before the horse. if u love the things of this world the love of the father is not in u. if ur sinning its because uve never had an encounter with christ not that ur losing ur salvation
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill You're right "absolutely not" but then what are the consequences of a "Christian" who reverts to adultery, fornication, thievery, etc? If it's not an open license to sin then what are the consequences of a sinner?
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 anyone who the father loves he diciplines. if ur walkin that narrow path and u step off then the father will come for u. christians can sin. but they can not live in habitual sin. whether u are convicted and broken or rebuked by someone he will correct u. if not u are not his
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill So you're saying that if you live in habitual sin then you are not really a Christian and therefore not saved. Correct? So then you have to do your best to keep the commandments even though we all will fall short. Right?
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 lol u crack me up. u just cant see this diffrence. its like u sayin u have to try to eat a couple meals a day. im sayin believe me i dont have to try. my nature will just tell me to eat. ur sayin well if u miss a meal ull try harder right. im sayin im not tryin ill be twice as irritated and twice as hunugry. kind of odd refrence but tryin to point out its ur nature there no try. me eating is just the evidence that thats what i wanna do
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill I kinda get what ur saying but again, ur teaching me LDS doctrine. We don't earn our salvation. We show God that we are changed by our fruits (works). If we have not been born again then we truly aren't Christian. So we agree on this point. But evangelicals for the most part disagree with you. They believe that once saved, always saved no matter what. That's not biblical.
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 we dont show god by our works!!! lol.. god knows the heart. christ is telling men how they can see if christ is in them. u will know them by there fruits. god knows if hes converted u. u could die that second and ud be fine. has nothing to do with showing god. god needs nothing from man nor requires anything from him
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill Oh boy. Here we go. Now ur contradicting yourself again. So he doesn't require us to keep the commandments? He doesn't require us to bring "good fruit" as you said before? Come on now. What is it? Fruits or no fruits? I'm tired too. Maybe another time.
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 lol im so not. please take a look at guy i recomended. will end this here. really important to get this diffrence.
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -not by works, so that no one can boast
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill Just watched "A Conversation With Paul Washer." I thought I was listening to my bishop. He is spot on. Problem is most evangelicals don't buy this. They believe "once saved, always saved" not matter what. I noticed a lot of people taking offense to what he is teaching. I actually agree with him for the most part. When you get up in the morning maybe you can answer this question and we'll clear a huge hurdle. In your mind, what are "works"?
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 litsin to some of his sermons.... what do u make of the verse.. they went out from us because they were not of us? .. and let me try this. scripture said we are dead in sin. we can do nothing. neither could lazarus obey the command to ccome forth unless he was already made alive. ur works are merely u being u after god gets ahold of u. if u say god has changed u but theres no change then he hasnt. the works show that after hating god hes now transformed u
lravenhill 21 hours ago
@lravenhill "what do u make of the verse.. they went out from us because they were not of us?" Can you give me the reference? Also, I can bombard you with bible vs that say works are required for salvation but I haven't gone there yet. So far I'm just trying to make a logical point.
uhp100 19 hours ago
@uhp100 if urr outwardly doing good works and confessing the name of christ but u are trying to do the works. forcing yourself to do them. trying not to sin but u want to. then u are a lost man in a religion. u need changed by the power of god.
lravenhill 21 hours ago
@lravenhill Agree, agree, agree. Once you are changed the desire to sin leaves you. We are empowered by God. We believe that the change that comes upon us will lead us to good works BUT if we never allow this change to come upon us then our good works really don't mean anything. If we have TRULY changed we will do good works because we love God and His children. However, if we aren't lead to these works then we are hypocrites because in the end the change never happened. What are "works"?
uhp100 19 hours ago
@uhp100 check ur comments on ur page. ii sent u my email
lravenhill 18 hours ago
@uhp100 all the examples in scripture are lost men or saved men. wwheat or tares,, goats or sheep. theres 2 kinds of people those who are dead in sin and those who are dead to sin. thats it
lravenhill 1 day ago
@uhp100 if i walked into ur house and said i was just crushed by an 18 wheeler and i looked fine. u would say i was either lying or crazy. theres no way i can have an encounter with something as large as a truck and not be changed. which is bigger an 18 wheeler or god? the same way if u claim to had an encoounter and know him and not be changed the truth is not in u. its not the works that earn u annything. its the evidence u know and love him by his power. not urs
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill The scriptures from the BofM explain exactly what your telling me here. I also don't believe that we can "earn" our way to heaven. We are saved by the grace of God. Period. But to say "I'm a Christian" and continue to live a heathen life is not the life of someone who has been born again. That's where I'm coming from. We show God our change of heart by keeping His commandments and walking in his ways. Otherwise we are hypocrites and have no place in his Kingdom.
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 u say it as though ur saved and then u have to try to keep his commandments to prove u are part of his kingdom. heard morman say we try then jesus makes up the rest. im saying if u truly are born again its ur new nature. u now love what god loves and hates what he hates. if ur struggling to keep his commandments and its a burden to u then thats a lost man playing religion
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill "im saying if u truly are born again its ur new nature. u now love what god loves and hates what he hates." Bingo! I agree 100%. My question is what if the professed "Christian" doesn't become this person? What is his fate? I just want a straight answer to that question.
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 i already gave u scripture answers. if ur not a true christian then he never knew u. saying ur a christian means nothing. even the demons believe in christ and tremble. only god can see the heart of a man. but men can only see the actions of a man. my answer is if u did not recieve christs atonment then u will have to pay for ur own sins in hell
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill ur right, the thief wasn't baptised. You're right he went to paradise "this day" with Christ. However paradise is not heaven. It is also called "Hades" or "waiting place". Remember, Christ told Mary AFTER his resurrection (3 days later) "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my Father" 1 Peter teaches that Christ taught the spirits in heaven. Thats where he went THE SAME DAY that he and the thief died, not heaven. A study of earlier Christian teachings will verify this.
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 lol ill just let u have this point im to tired to get into another tangent totally
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill You're a good man (or woman) Iravenhill. It's not often I can have this much dialogue with a good Christian. I wish you the best.
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 thanks i enjoyed convo as well. may i recomend u watch paul washer on youtube. he explains this salvation issue very well and hes the best preacher ive heard yet. please give him a try. might clear up this wall we have that u dont think we have lol
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill OK. I'll check out Paul.
uhp100 1 day ago
And for the record, a guy by the username TheSkepticChristian was mocking a guy on another video because he believes in the bible where it says in talking snakes and talking donkeys. He is a Mormon and defends his faith religiously.
You dont believe in the bible. You just admitted works are nessassary, when I just quoted two versus from the bible that say they dont.
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Galations 2:16
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
If you read the book of Acts you'll learn how the Jews despised Paul for constantly teaching against the law. Even the Jews that converted to Christianity continued to practice the works of the law (of Moses) thinking that it was still necessary.Study Acts and the words of Paul in context and it will become clear to you that he was preaching against the need to live the Law of Moses, it was fulfilled at Christ's death.Your bible consists of 6 or 8 verses that are taken completely out of context.
uhp100 1 month ago
@uhp100 What are you talking about? I already said I am not a Christian and you acknowledged I wasnt too.
So basically what you're saying is, ignore the Biblical scriptures I just quoted and read acts instead. No thanks, ill read both and come to the judgement that the bible is the most hyporcritical book (beside the quran, BofM, D&C etc) on planet earth. They teach different things yet you say you believe in this book but dont believe what i just quoted lol
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
We'll visit this subject again when you know what you're talking about.
uhp100 1 month ago
@uhp100 ha, I thought as much. You cant deny what is written in the bible. You believe one part of the bible but not another. Not smart
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." Eph 2: 8-9
Explain now.
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
uhp, you dont even believe Jesus is God lol Your church teaches he is literally the son of God and not God the father. Another epic fail in your claim to be Christian
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
I wish you were a Christian so that I can prove to you that you are completely wrong. The bible DOES NOT teach that salvation is gained by faith alone, far from it. You are misinterpreting a few obscure verses and ignoring the rest of the bible. Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles CLEARLY teaches that works are required for salvation.
uhp100 1 month ago
@uhp100 I know what the bible says. Yes it contradicts itself in places just like the BofM and D&C does. But it says grace alone a lot more than it does about works.
I will quote a verse for you and I want you to explain it. No doubt you will twist the shit out it haha
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
Very interesting. You are the first evangelical that has said the "infallible" bible contradicts itself but it doesn't. Will you please tell me where the BOM and D&C contradict each other?
uhp100 1 month ago
@uhp100 In D&C 107:53-54 we read of Christ showing Himself to Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah. In Ether 3:13-15 we are told "Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son [(?) (JHW)] . . . never have I showed myself unto man who I have created .D&C 124:22ff sets forth the practice of one being baptized on behalf of one who has previously died.This practice directly contradicts Alma 34:32-35 cant fit the verse here
lravenhill 1 day ago
@lravenhill Bapt. for the dead does not contradict Alma. It is not a conversion process. Before I go on let me set the stage. I'm sure you agree with me that NO man or woman can gain salvation except thru Christ. Some Evangelicals say that God will be merciful to those that haven't had a chance to receive him but the hard liners say no! EVERYONE must accept Christ (true) to be saved. As for those who die w/o the knowledge? Too bad! They are doomed to eternal burning in hell. Do you believe that?
uhp100 1 day ago
@uhp100 whether one or they other is true i dont believe u can free a person from hell by proxy. i dont believe god would be just in that nor do i believe baptism is a requirment for salvation. thief on cross wasnt baptised. baptism is ur public expression of what u already have
lravenhill 1 day ago
@uhp100 "I wish you were a Christian so that I can prove to you that you are completely wrong. The bible DOES NOT teach that salvation is gained by faith alone, far from it." Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. I will add faith in Christ Jesus who justifies us.
BrotherMichael1000 4 weeks ago
My friend, you claim to have been a bishop which I don't dispute but you clearly do not understand the true doctrine of Jesus Christ. If you are caught up in the heresy known as evangelical christianity you have surely been deceived. I am a convert to the LDS church because of the things I have studied and know to be true. Modern day christendom is NOT biblical. Not only that but it is completely contrary to what was taught by the 1st century Christian scholars. Satan has deceived you.
uhp100 1 month ago
@uhp100 Coming from this guy who is a Mormon? LOL You believe Jesus is Satans brother and that Jesus' atonement is not enough to guarantee your salvation to live with God. Im not even a Christian, but I sure know what one is. The Bible says faith in Jesus is all you need, and not of works so that no man can boast.
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
Your a strong man and I am delighted to hear someone who has freed themselves from the LDS organization
lmadigan1971 2 months ago 9
I pray that your family sees the Truth in you...and comes to believe in Jesus!>of the Bible
Ogram1000 3 months ago 3
of course the book of mormon is true, it is as real as that book of Harry Potter. Jospeh Smith had made up a story only to deceive and take an advantage of many people.
chickybabe21688 3 months ago
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TheSoulamore 4 months ago
@carule11 LOL But I didn´t hear about you nor South Park.
dorisfenella 4 months ago
@carule11 "Why call lucy that when she didnt do anything wrong? "
Ask South Park.Joseph Smith Jr. is a Superbest friend of Jesus!
And I am agree!
So every person that is against Joseph Smith is also against his Superfriend Jesus.
dorisfenella 4 months ago
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dorisfenella 4 months ago
@carule11 Joseph Smith is one of the Superbest friends of Jesus
so Lucy Harris is dumb dumb dumb dumb
dorisfenella 4 months ago
@carule11 Mormon-LDS= Smart , Smart, Smart, Smart.
dorisfenella 4 months ago
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TheSoulamore 5 months ago
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@carule11
LOL... so what are you doing then?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@carule11
Admit you are a hater...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@carule11
Not randomly... I like LDS people.
The LDS church is a good church... like the catholic church and most other religious christian churches.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@carule11
I'm not Mormon... but it looks like you are a not only bigoted but probably only have one tooth to go with that back hills attitude.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
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@johnny123springer
Never was and still am not Mormon... But why would someone with a bigoted outlook comprehend that?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@johnny123springer
Never was and still am not Mormon... But why would someone with a bigoted outlook comprehend that?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
Satan is a deceiver I Corinthians 11:12-15. Paul warns us about "another" gospel Galatians 1:8-9. Jesus Is GOD, there is one God. There's only one God. Isaiah 43:10. Its better to please God than man. Its better to sacrifice your family and friends and find the truth and go to heaven thru Jesus Christ and his shed blood that covers all sins then please man and burn in hell.
beatleman69 5 months ago
@beatleman69 Question, can you name me just 3 non-Christian scholars, that don't believe that the Trinity had pagan origins???
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian No, but the Trinity is biblical not pagan.
beatleman69 5 months ago
@beatleman69 "The Greeks had a first God, and second God, and third God, and the second was begotten by the first. And yet for all that....they considered all these one"
"I not only confess but I maintain, such a similitude of Plato's and John's Trinity doctrines as bespeaks a common origin." (Thirteenth letter to Dr. Priestley)
the Platonic or Grecian Trinity
Encyclopedia of Religion: "Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity."
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
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@beatleman69 No, but the Trinity is biblical not pagan.
Not only are you wrong... but you are double wrong. It is found no where in the bible... and all the early writings are based on Greek philosophy. I wonder why that is...?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
Shawn had no idea what he was going to say??? I think that is a big fat lie...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
This guy obviously hasn't seen the documentary called
"A History of God"
Nothing more than a hypocrite
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@eeikman
Yet the only ones that claimed JS practiced polygamy were ex'd members that had a grudge against him... Was he sealed to them... that is what the records show... married... possible... DId he ever live with any of them... there is little to no proof...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408 Mormon historians will confirm that he was married to multiple women such as Tod Compton in his book "In Sacred Loneliness" . So, even LDS historians know that fact. Brigham Young and Joesph Smith were cut from the same cloth. So, would you try to convince me that Brigham Young didn't have sex with his many wives? The only difference between Joseph and Brigham was that Brigham didn't have to hide his polygamy deny it as Joesph did.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
Believe what you want... as you will only believe what you want... whether it is coming from LDS historians or not... as long as it goes along with your belief system you will accept it.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@eeikman Can you explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity??
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
Nice try....though.
oncom2008 5 months ago
@dantheman201190 How exactly are you going to know God's will either way? God does not give you direction unless you seek for it. The world is full of people going their own way and doing their own will, not God's, so I am not sure how you can make that statement unless I misunderstood.
Atheist are "happy" too so I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean.
love1another777 5 months ago
God for something that he just ignores you and does what he wants any way? His will for us is that we be truly happy in this life and gain salvation in the next life that is why he sent His Son.
love1another777 5 months ago
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@love1another777 * His will for us is that we be truly happy in this life and gain salvation in the next life that is why he sent His Son.* And that work sorta pooped out, so god had to send Joseph Smith to fix things. Thank goodness for Joesph Smith's work or Christ would've died in vain, huh?
eeikman 5 months ago
@dantheman201190 What is the point in prayer?
To know what is truth and to know God's will, to gain inspiration and guidance for your own life. It is far from a waste of time as God does hear and answer. Why would you not ask someone who is all knowing and who loves you for direction in your life, or for knowledge, understanding, guidance and to know their will for you? Why would you not go to someone who can show you a better way & a better life? Why do you think that when you ask
love1another777 5 months ago
Seriously?! These are the same régurgitations of the Godmakers and every other anti-Mormon claim. They've all been refuted and even a superficial attempt and finding an answer will put these accusations in their place. I never blindly follow and have always found an explanation. ironically the different versions of the first vision parallel almost exactly to Paul's versions of his vision of the Savior. Nice try, but this isn't fooling anyone. Either he's a fool or has a big secret.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube *Either he's a fool or has a big secret.* If Earl's a fool if he doesn't know the personal cost this with have in his life, then he's a daring fool. How much would you lose? A lot of older men in the LDS church have come to understand it is a man-made organisation, but just keep quiet since they would lose family, friends, even employment in some cases.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman Every single person that I've seen in this situation has had something to hide, usually some form of sin. Since someone like you or I can never know for sure, it's likely we'll find out on the other side. It's not a man-made organization especially when you consider the Mormon church follows the Bible closer than anyone else. Not to mention he brought up some of the weakest arguments. It's more than obvious that there is something else going on.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * It's more than obvious that there is something else going on.* That may be true, since the social pressure to remain an LDS are tremendous. It would take something of greater magnitude for Earl to break with the LDS church. It would have to be a supernatural event of God, or as you would believe something heinous. Until more details are available, if ever, I'll take Earl's story at face value.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman The social pressure to remain in any religion is tremendous especially when they are or have been a leader. Case in point; some atheists claim to be practicing Christian preacher but can't face the spiritual or financial reality of telling their congregation. As I see it there is as much pressure to get out of Mormonism as their is to stay in. I've just seen too many underlying reasons for leaving especially when someone was so involved as this guy. Assume what you will.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
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eeikman 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * there is something else going on. * And on the flipside, there's plenty of men that have horrible, dark, unrepented sins that never leave your church. Even at the top. Many have dismissed Martha Nibley's accounts of abuse from the late great LDS apologists Hugh Nibley, but I find it very credible. I used to live in Utah Valley, and the scourge of sexual abuse was rampant among LDS that remained in good standing in the LDS church.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman First off, I never made any specific reference to what the "...something else" might be. It just more than a little suspicious especially base on the easily refutable claims.
Secondly, what ever individuals inside the church may or may not have done has nothing to do with it being true. If sins are not resolved then they will face God. I'd be very careful to judge it I were you. And for you to say sexual abuse was rampant is conjecture at best since you don't know for sure.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube *First off, I never made any specific reference to what the...* Whenever somebody apostates, suspicion that a sexual sin is involved is at the tippy top of the list. It's Mormon Culture 101.
* I'd be very careful to judge it I were you .. rampant * If you could talk to anyone in the mental health profession about the hidden problem of incest in Utah Valley, they'd blow your mind.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman It's not Mormon culture 101, it's just what typically happens. But not just with Mormons, ie: Jimmy Swaggart and a few other non-Mormons come to mind. Traditional Christian leadership certainly has contributed their share. Your assessment of an incest problem would certainly fail any sense of reality in most peoples minds. You can find what ever you want, if you look hard enough. Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else. You just choose to believe it is
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube *Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else * The foundation of Mormonism based on control. Control and sex in human relationships can become a horrible tangle. The ugly truth is that the temples were created and the ceremonies were adapted from the nearest convenient source to justify Joseph Smith's harem. So, yes, from it's very foundation, Mormonism has contributed to a great deal of sexual abuse of women.
eeikman 5 months ago
You have obviously and tragically bought into the lies and misrepresentations the enemies of the church have tried to perpetuate since the beginning. I'm not sure what religious persuasion you are but you significantly lack the critical eye where your assessment could also apply. Your critical assessment has little to do fact and more to do with a desire to place modern judgments on different culture. Isn't it ironic that it was female members and the church that advocated women voting.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * You have obviously and tragically bought into the lies * Recognition that you've been decieved can be a truly ugly thing. It is usually violent at an emotional level. It's much easier to continue to believe that we weren't raised on untruth. Our minds protects us from this violent pain by allowing us to ignore the obvious and continue living from day to day.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman So then you're admitting your accusations are here-say? Are you also realizing that if what you claim is so rampent then there is plenty of evidence, thanks to your mental health care friends, to convict those who violate innocent virtue? I think your just bloviating to hear yourself talk.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
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@jmhatutube * little to do fact and more to do with a desire to place modern judgments on different culture * Forgery, fornication and adultery have always been evil. If Joseph Smith was not mentally stricken in some way, then he died unrepentant and is, according to the Bible, damned.
eeikman 5 months ago
One other thing, most people critical of religion in general also state that the cornerstone of region is control and fear. Unless you atheist or agnostic, you're likely to draw the same criticism you try to apply to the Mormon church. Which isn't accurate just as your accusations toward the Mormon church and Joseph Smith aren't.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * One other thing, most people critical of religion in general also state that the cornerstone of region is control and fear * Cults exist that say they are of Jesus, but preach that their sect is the only one that has authority, that you are damned in some way by leaving. Orthodox Christianity has no such dogma, there is no building or earthly organisation that has this authority. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this earth and Orthodox Christians understand what He meant.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman Cults do exist, but Mormonism is no more a cult that Christianity. Very few claim any authority except the Catholics and Mormons. Most just claim God told them something. As for Orthodox Christian dogma, you either really aren't familiar with it, or your just lying. Catholics claim absolut authority. Christ said we can only be saved through him he then ordained his apostles with the necessary authority. You don't seem to be too familiar with the Bible.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * As for Orthodox Christian dogma, .. or your just lying. * The book "Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton is my line of thinking. And it's the authority of God's Word that is Absolute. It wasn't "anti Mormon" information that led me to finally break with that church it was a book by Brennan Manning called "Ruthless Trust". The contrast between Mormonism and Christianity as the book unfolded stunned me. The contrast between the Mormon "god" and the majesty of God stunned me.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman The authority of God's word comes through his authority. You can't pigeon-hole the entirety of God authority into the Bible. The bible doesn't do that it actually teaches the oposite. I know nothing specific of either of these books except they both seem to lean Catholic which makes a claim on priesthood authority. For me, It's the Bible and Book of Mormon that keep me devout LDS. Jesus the Christ is a big deal also. You obviously don't understand a Mormon understanding of God.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * The bible doesn't do that it actually teaches the oposite.* Nope. Remember the man that was casting out demons in Christ's name? He was simply following Christ's words, period.
* I know nothing specific of either of these books except they both seem to lean Catholic * No. Brennan left the Catholic church and it's crushing legalism long ago. And G.K Chesterton leaning toward Catholicism? Your view of Christendom is quite clouded by that insular Mormon world.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman Maybe what I should have said is both writers seemed to have a Catholic background. Ultimately it's their viewpoint and I would get a type of philosophy. I'll stick to the Bible. My understanding of these authors may be cloudy, not my understanding of credal Christianity.
Casting out demons may not require the priesthood. There are plenty of references in the bible where Christ gave specific authority and that they needed to be called of God and couldn't take it upon themselves.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * I'll stick to the Bible. * Hardly. 2000 years of Christendom and 4000 (?) years of Judaism agree: One God and One God Only.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman How Jews view God differ greatly to how Christians do. They won't agree with you and see you as more of a polytheist than a monotheist. Besides, neither the old or new testament are the monotheism you claim. There are many references to the plural gods. Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let US make man in OUR.." is just one example. We worship the supreme God and our definition isn't different than the Bible - Others interpret it differently.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * they needed to be called of God and couldn't take it upon themselves. * True. Such as David Livingstone that was driven by the call of God to preach of Christ in Africa. If a man feels driven to preach of Christ, that is what a call _is_ man. It isn't dispensed from a stuffy office by an dark-suited fellow that traces his authority to some early American magic user. I kept my Bible. Every day, I drive by the dumpster where I dumped the D&C, BoM and my patriarchal blessing.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman You're wrong. It states specifically in the new testament and the old that a man is called of God as was Aaron - through prophecy from a prophet, in the case of Aaron it was Moses. If you judge Joseph because of repented indiscretions then you probably don't like Paul to much when he was Saul. If you feel that dumping sacred documents that are God's word, whether you believe it or not, fine. But you will be judged for those things. But a warning like that likely falls on deaf ears.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * If you feel that dumping sacred documents that are God's word * I kept God's word. I threw away the counterfeits. The counterfeits looked convincing, the Jacobean language of the KJV , bound with glided edges, too. But it's junk that will fade into obscurity like the works of the false prophet, Mani (also "martyred") and his once powerful and widespread religion of Manichaeism.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman Convince yourself how ever you want. I'm convince you wouldn't know God's word if it hit you squarely between the eyes, because it has and you still rejected it. The Bible and the Book of Mormon agree and compliment each other. They testify of Christ and they testify of each other. Joseph Smith will be in Gods courts with Adam, Noah, Abraham and all the other prophets and will be vilified by Christ himself. Of this I have no doubt.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * Joseph Smith will be in Gods courts with Adam, Noah, Abraham and all the other prophets * That is a bit confusing considering the LDS doctrine of the 1850's that taught that Adam was the true father of Jesus. Yes, father Adam had sexual intercourse with Mary.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman Honestly you strike me as a little smarter than this. While there is little significant explanation behind why Brigham Young taught this, it was certainly not the consensus of the leadership and has since been refuted multiple times. That's the beauty of having the council of 12 apostles, as defined in Ephesians 4, which traditional Christianity ignores. This is how the doctrine stays as pure as possible, a huge problem with others. No one taught physical sex with Mary, that's a lie.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
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@eeikman Honestly you strike me as a little smarter than this. While there is little significant explanation behind why Brigham Young taught this, it was certainly not the consensus of the leadership and has since been refuted multiple times. That's the beauty of having the council of 12 apostles, as defined in Ephesians 4, which traditional Christianity ignores. This is how the doctrine stays as pure as possible, a huge problem with others. No one taught physical sex with Mary, that's a lie.
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * Joseph Smith will be in Gods courts with Adam.*
Millenial Star
No. 48.-Vol. Xv. Saturday, November 26, 1853. Price One Penny.
Article: "Adam, Our Father and God. (From the Journal of Discourses.)
When the virgin Mary conceieved the child Jesus,
the Father had begotten him in his own likeness.
He was not begotten of the Holy Ghost. And who
was the Father? He is the first of the human family;
begotten after the same manner as the tabernacles of
Cain, Abel, and the rest..."
eeikman 5 months ago
@jmhatutube * you wouldn't know God's word if it hit you squarely between the eyes * The truth is difficult to find, Yes. But what has become easy, due to the Information Age is that I can easily find you who is lying to me. The LDS church raised you and me on lies. Damned Lies.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
LOL... so you believe everything you read on the .net in your grandmas basement on their IBM... that is sad.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408 * LOL... so you believe everything you read on the .net * Google books has been scanning in original documents that are searchable for some time now. Bad information was around long before the ".net", you must cross reference data just like the old days. I bought old printing of Vol 6. of the LDS church history just to read for myself Joseph Smith's rant about keeping a church together better than Jesus could. The rant really _was_ there. Just like it was on the ".net"
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
I've read it... I've also read the part where Peter denied Christ three times... what does the bible say about that???
Heb. 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Wow... did Peter sin willfully or not? Matt. 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Wow...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408 The point is, is that the reference on the .net referred to an actual occurrence. As do the references that your church once taught that Adam has sexual intercourse with the virgin Mary. Or that Joseph Smith referred to his youngest, 14 year old wife, as giving him the most pleasure that any women has ever given him.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
Sorry... but it does not say that Adam had sexual intercourse with Mary... It does call Christ conception as natural as ours. And that it is not the Spirit that was the Father but in fact God was the Father. I'm not sure why you jump to the conclusion that their must have been sex involved. I think you antimormons love sex so much and feel it is dirty so you try to slander others with accusations of sex.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408 * . I'm not sure why you jump to the conclusion that their must have been sex involved. * The sexless polygamy of Joesph Smith and the other "prophets" is just a whitewash. The Mormon Celestial Kingdom cosmology was an extension of Joseph Smiths harem and his prolific sexual activity. It is a Carnal Heaven as Muhammad's "heaven' is carnal. These false prophets make a non-existent place where they can fornicate for Eternity.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
Just JS as there is not a lot of proof for him being in a polygamy relationship...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408 * but it does not say that Adam had sexual intercourse with Mary * Always had some trouble with reading comprehension there, buddy?
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
reading comprehension... not fill in the blanks.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408 * reading comprehension... not fill in the blanks.* "... it [Christ's body] was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve"
So, Cain, Abel and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve were spiritually begotten, with no carnal relationship required. Is that your logic? Huh? You are a son of Adam, you dork. How were you begotten?
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
I think you are missing the point... they were getting away form the immaculate conception... it was nothing magical but natural. He was not the Son of the Spirit but of God... No one has ever said sex was involved but the perverts like you. You guys love to speculate like it is truth without a doubt. Grow up.
You do understand that woman con conceive without ever having sex right? She conceived by the Spirit, Gods Son.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
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@Sk8er408 * She conceived by the Spirit, Gods Son.*
* He was not the Son of the Spirit but of God...*
Here you have stated two completely contradictory statements. Your religion has you chasing your tail like some silly dog.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman Why do all Christian PhD Scientists, in the Biology field, believe in the Theory of Evolution??
Why do some Christian theologians, or Christian biblical scholars also believe in the Theory of Evolution??
Interesting don't you think??
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@Sk8er408 You can equivocate all day about the actions of Christ's Apostles, they are snow white compared to the filth of your church's founder Joseph Smith.
eeikman 5 months ago
@eeikman
All are filthy before G-d. Nice to see you hold a double standard. I'm not LDS... thanks for the compliment though.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@eeikman I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true.
UtahMormon90 5 months ago
@UtahMormon90 Let's play The Patriarchal Blessing ~Wheel~of ~Fortune!
Well, Lad, let's give the wheel a spin and see who you are. (tick tick tick...) Ephraim it is! That's right, your of the tribe of Ephraim! And you're going to... help build god's kingdom, that's it. And, um.... you will be blessed with health and strength. Yes, yes, I very bright future. Just don't blow it boy, and leave the LDS church or it'll all be taken away. Hear me? You hear me boy? Just don't leave, or else!
eeikman 5 months ago
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@eeikman So, yes, from it's very foundation, Mormonism has contributed to a great deal of sexual abuse of women.
What? Do you like just making up things?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
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@eeikman So, yes, from it's very foundation, Mormonism has contributed to a great deal of sexual abuse of women.
What? Do you like just making up things?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
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@eeikman So, yes, from it's very foundation, Mormonism has contributed to a great deal of sexual abuse of women.
What? Do you like just making up things?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
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@eeikman It's not Mormon culture 101, it's just what typically happens. But not just with Mormons, ie: Jimmy Swaggart and a few other non-Mormons come to mind. Traditional Christian leadership certainly has contributed their share. Your assessment of an incest problem would certainly fail any sense of reality in most peoples minds. You can find what ever you want, if you look hard enough. Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else. You just choose to believe it is
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@eeikman It's not Mormon culture 101, it's just what typically happens. But not just with Mormons, ie: Jimmy Swaggart and a few other non-Mormons come to mind. Traditional Christian leadership certainly has contributed their share. Your assessment of an incest problem would certainly fail any sense of reality in most peoples minds. You can find what ever you want, if you look hard enough. Problems are no more institutionalized in Mormonism than anywhere else. You just choose to believe it is
jmhatutube 5 months ago
@jmhatutube *Either he's a fool or...* Come to think of it, most acts of bravery could be considered acts of foolishness.
eeikman 5 months ago
what a brave man, what a great testimony! I pray others will hear the calm wisdom and sincerity of his search
sonofcohen 5 months ago
@sonofcohen You are a disgrace to humanity. This testimony was nothing more than a fart in the wind. I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and I urge you to call a missionary today.
UtahMormon90 5 months ago
@UtahMormon90 haha, I love how you don't offer any arguments against his claims your just so sure there must be something wrong with the guy. Talked to missionaries many times. Have dinner with them sometimes. Still don't believe. Read the BOM, still don't believe. Why? Because I didn research, looked for truth and not just emotions. It's all a big scam. hate to break it to you but JS was a con man!
sonofcohen 5 months ago
@dantheman201190 One must learn to know the difference between their own voice and God's. But that doesn't mean you don't ask God who is the only one who knows the truth. It means you pray in faith and humility, willing to submit and with an open mind.
love1another777 5 months ago
@love1another777 "But that doesn't mean you don't ask God who is the only one who knows the truth. It means you pray in faith and humility, willing to submit and with an open mind." An vague response, for it dosen't answer the question of how do you know which God is the correct one? Is the God of Islam the correct God, or Allah as he is called by them, the God of the Moonies, or the JWS? They can't all be the correct God, for they all contradict one another correct? But does it matter to you?
TheJpgr1958 5 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 Aren't you going to see the video that Utahmormon dedicated to you??
watch?v=3lwoEI4u-K8&feature=channel_video_title
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
To take God out of the equation in the search for truth is foolishness. All the Christian sects read the Bible yet they differ greatly. And what did people do before the Bible came to be? And even after, when only the rich and learned were allowed to read the Bible? God is the source of all truth & only God can tell someone what is and isn't truth. To base ones judgements soley on the tangible, even words of the Bible is to go against James 1 & Hebrews 11 and deny that God answers prayers.
love1another777 5 months ago
@love1another777 "To take God out of the equation" Which God, the God of Mormonism, the JWS, Moonies, Oneness Islam...? Ah well, I guess it makes no difference. We all end up in the same place correct? "When I Get Home"
TheJpgr1958 5 months ago
@love1another777 *And what did people do before the Bible came to be?* What "people" ? The Gentiles had nothing but the Pagan Virtues as taught by thinkers such as Aristotle. The Gentiles were grafted in only after Christ's work was finished. Such as You, yes You! You are a Gentile sweetums!
eeikman 5 months ago
Every mormon should listen to God, not this or any other man. If any lack wisdom they should ask God and lean not to their own understanding.
love1another777 5 months ago
@love1another777 "Every mormon should listen to God" And of course, that's the problem. The Mormon God is an exalted man, who has many wives, and that every Mormon worthy male has the hope of becoming a god like your current heavenly father. This is NOT the of the Bible. "If any lack wisdom" Ahh yes, good old James, which Mormons quote out of context, much like all cultic groups do with passages from the Bible. "As we stumble along"
TheJpgr1958 5 months ago
every Mormon on YT should listen to this.
IExposeMormonism 5 months ago
EXCELLENT Video .. I love Mormons and pray they ALL come to the knowledge of the truth!!!!
jonayork 5 months ago
@jonayork Amen!! I have seen, There is a dramatic decline in the number of LDS members who believe, understand or even know of the tenets of true Mormonism. Whenever I meet someone of this faith, I politely ask them to explain portions of their "Doctrine and Covenants" and "Pearl of Great Price". Most of the time I am met with looks of bewilderment! They seem to be appalled at the very thought of doctrines such as "The Curse Of Cain" in which Blacks were believed to be spiritually inferior.
Bacnow 5 months ago
@Bacnow EXACTLY .. the draw of the squeaky-clean facade in a Social Club aspect, there the trap is set for the unsuspecting 'good-person' BUT when the light of the WORD is cast on the embarrassing false doctrine of the LDS leadership .. Mormon Doctrine is exposed as Blasphemous to God and oppressive to women and racist .. the TRUTH shall set us free in Jesus!
Mormonism is a man-made, false, works-based faith and not a relationship with God but just another damning, false, religious deception.
jonayork 5 months ago
@dantheman201190 Truth is truth, no matter how you spell it.
holidayrap 6 months ago
@dantheman201190 If sh*t means truth in another language or diaologue..the yes youre right.
holidayrap 6 months ago
dna and the book of mormon
joseph smith and women
The truth and facts, not belief and fantasy
TheBeTrue 6 months ago
How about a stationary earth? Job did in chapter 38:6. In Genesis 1:16 in says the moon is a source of light. Capernicus and Galileo were persecuted for teaching against the earth being stationary and the sun rotating around us Joshua 10:12-14, Psalm 93:1 and Psalm 93:1. Do you really believe that belief trumps facts?
TheBeTrue 6 months ago
Well, @holidayrap,faced with such overwhelming facts to the contrary, if you believe that the church is true, I must then believe. Is that what you think? That if you believe, then is must be true, given all the fact contrary to your belief? Have you heard of the earth being flat and all the people that believed that? Do you know where that belief comes from? The Bible : Deuteronomy 13:7, 28:49, 28:64, 33:17. Job 2:8, 19:4, 22:27, 33:13, 48:10, 59:13, 61:2, 65:5, 72:8. Do you belief in that?
TheBeTrue 6 months ago
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Drinking the kool aid doesn't make it less damaging. Good for you, UtahMormon90; do you really think you are the first one to think of bearing your testimony when confronted with facts that don't fit what you have been taught your entire life? Is that the best you have? Go on and live your deluded life and I will go on and live my happy one.
TheBeTrue 6 months ago
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