They should not build a mosque there, they should instead build a homeless shelter or some other good will center to show they are not the same as the ones that attacked us.
They have the right, but it's not morally sound to build a mosque specifically. If they want to make a good impression on us, they'd help the US people as a whole, with no regard for belief, sexual orientation, gender, etc..
Yah. I just don't get it. The atheists here on YT (who seem to be mostly anti-theists - as am I) will verbally destroy xians with glee, and remark on how clearly deluded ALL religious people are. But when it is suggested that, for numerous reasons, a MOSQUE (yep) at G0 is a bad idea, they run to their islam - err, I mean tolerance - defense positions? WTF? Why don't they just STFU and stop being INTOLERANT of religion in general? What a bunch of hypocrites.
@jhcdnx yep, only for muslims. muslims are a group defined by religion. people are prevented from entering Mecca by virtue of being part of an identifiable group. the identifiable group is non-Muslim. religious-based discrimination. not acceptable here, in Canada.
Many atheists get very annoyed when Islam is criticized while they wouldn't bat an eye when Christianity is criticized in an even more violent or supposedly "unfair" fashion.
That shit annoys the shit out of me. I'm an atheist, I criticize all religions, I'm fairly well informed with most of what these religions say and do, and I definitely detest Islam the most, and refuse to be lectured by other atheists who get uncontrollably offended and compare "islamophobia" with some form of racism.
It's not religious discrimination, deal with that it's only a place for muslims. What do you want to do in Mecca anyways?
I doubt ultra ortodox jews like when a christian or atheist enters their synagogue. Take a look at israeli settlers, they are VERY radical. They call every journalist entering these settlements "nazis" and in some cases fight them or get violent.
In what way is it discrimination to keep your holiest place to yourself?
Yes, we need to make a clear distinction between 'tolerating' ideas and people, and 'respecting' them. TF00ts first video was basically saying that he does not respect the reasons for a mosque to be built, yet he can tolerate it because they have a fundamental right.
In summary: You have a right to be an idiot, but people aren't required to respect you for it!
@josephdorrell Here, effin' here to this response! No religion is beyond questioning Atheists. I'm not against people of Arab descent nor should we be, but if there are Arabs with bat shit crazy ideas that discriminate against people and end up people being killed, like I dunno, Islam maybe we should call them out on their hypocrisies as well as the hypocrisies of Xians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, ect, ect.
Thunderfoot: I understand your point, and agree with it. I am baffled why so many people didn't bother to listen to your original video before they went off on you.
@ForgotMyName3 The point is that even though there is no mosque in the Vatican, muslims are still free to enter. In Mecca, not only are there no churches, but non-muslims aren't even allowed to enter. You are a fucking idiot for saying it's "their right." Yes, it is, and it is also our right to call them intolerant bigots for doing so. If the pope declared that no muslims are allowed in the Vatican you would say the same thing. You are a fucking hypocrite.
Even years after 9/11 and numerous other JIHAD attacks around the World...I was not that much into reading about Islam and stuffs..till I heard that there is gonna be a mosque 2 blocks away from the Ground Zero..Frankly speaking it blew my mind!!
I's like wtf..wtf?
Then I heard someone(Probably an Islam-sympathizer) saying "ISLAM is *the* Religion of Peace..!"
* That was the Last Straw..I read Qur'an 3 times in 1 month and Guess what I found out?
But Do they have any immediate necessity to Build ONE MORE mosque?
I genuinely don't think so.
What is really QUEER is that they are peddling this WITLESS CANARD that It's somehow a "BIG BLOW TO THE EXTREMISTS"..as though these "Extremists" are somehow averse to building a Mosque and hence it would really *TERRIFY* them..!!
* TRUTH:
The "extremists" couldn't have asked for any better reward for 9/11 than this!!
Qur'an (Surah 5:51) - "O you who believe! do NOT take the JEWS and the CHRISTIANS for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of THEM; surely Allah does not guide the *WRONGDOERS*."
Now please reconcile the above verse with ongoing Islam's [Utterly Fake, Deceptive and flamboyantly ostensible] peace-process with Christian and Jews..
FYI, This verse was narrated when Muhammad came to power..It expands the scope of hostility!
People here in Saudi (I'm a local) know these words (tolerance, freedom, equality, free speech) have positive connotations in the West because they see these words celebrated and lauded in the western world. So... since they believe their stupid awful and horrible religion is perfect, they believe all good words must apply to it. OR they believe it's okay to lie to infidels so they co-opt the words to describe the religion; logic be damned. But most Saudis do not actually understand these terms.
"[saudi] People ..know these words (tolerance, freedom, equality, free speech) have positive connotations"
1. Will I last even 15 minutes If I said the following in the streets of Saudi Arabia, "Muhammad, according to hadiths such as sahih bukhari, sahih Muslim, etc,.. was a lecher, pedophile, vengeful narcissist..and thus a scorn-worthy piece of shit"...?
2. Why aren't Non-Muslims allowed to even enter the Mecca??
Makes me sick to think a saudi is lecturing us on Tolerance and Free-speech..!
@kalbahamut "Saudis do not actually understand these terms."
Wrong..!
If saudis did understand what those words meant they won't have banned women from driving, won't have included in their curriculum the books which say "JEWS ARE descendants of APES AND CHRISTIANS ARE of PIGS.."! com'on!
"are you trying to disagree with me? If so it makes me think you didn't read my entire comment."
I think you misunderstood me....I'm NOT trying..hell yeah, I AM outright (100%) DISAGREEING WITH YOU!
I love that you take the time to reply to people that obviously missed the point, full kudos to you for not only taking the high ground but owning it. As an atheist I'm only sad that as a group we don't elect a leader to speak on our behalf rather than having the media do it for us. You show knowledge outside your chosen field of study and present your arguments intelligently and articulately and give no offense outside the relm of the content. If I had teachers like you I'd have stayed in c
I'm all for religious freedom. Hell, I even fight for it, along with all the other rights and freedoms America stands for, but all this intolerance between religions makes me feel we should get rid of all religions all together.
It does seem that Muslims insist on tolerance but there is such a sharp dichotomy in the religions. Mecca bans all non-Muslims. Whereas a similar place like St. Peter's Square lets you see the Vatican, monuments, statues, and even the Pope. Anyone can go there, in fact Muhammad Ali Agca got close enough to the Pope to get a clean shot off!
@Dracopol this is very true, but many Muslims do not understand your point because they are constantly projecting. They assume that other religions are just as horrible and intolerant as their own religion, so to them when they see Islam being singled out they don't understand why. I've asked people here in Saudi Arabia about why a non-Muslim should fear for his life when visiting Mecca, and their answer is often "well, if a Muslim went to the Vatican, he would also be killed, right?" Honestly.
It does seem that Muslims insist on tolerance but there is such a sharp dichotomy in the religions. Mecca bans all non-Muslims. Whereas a similar place like St. Peter's Square lets you see the Vatican, monuments, statues, and even the Pope. Anyone can go there, in fact Muhammad Ali Agca got close enough to the Pope to get a clean shot off!
i agree with this guy, i am all for Muslims having the freedom of religion, but they do not. what people need to understand in most Islamic countries they suppress democracy, they treat freedom of speech and any country that has it as a taboo, a demonic hell. what he was saying was that the muslim world likes to lecture the world on freedom of religion but kill it in their own countries because it makes governing everyone life so much easier. religion is the perfect tool of social control.
Muslims have the right to build it. However, if 19 atheist bombed the sears tower IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM, I would have the common decency to not build an atheist community center that close.
Sorry Thunderf00t, I disagree with you here. As an atheist, I have little time for religions of any sort, especially fundamentalist Islam. But you suggest that new york's muslim residents agree with sharia law because they pray to in the direction of Mecca. Surely ridiculous?
Anders Behring Breivik was a fundamentalist christian who massacred people in Oslo. Would you kick up a fuss if a new church was being built in Oslo? Would that get ANY attention? Should it?
@jungsbodyguard That's completely different. Anders Behring Breivik was a Christian who massacred people in a predominately Christian state. 9/11 was Muslims who massacred people in a predominately Christian nations, Anders killed his own while 9/11 was foreigners who killed locals. And there probably are multiple churches being built in Oslo right now, it's been Christian since Viking times. Go pick up a history book and learn something you swine.
@ImperialTexas Wow. There's no need to resort to ad hominem assaults. For your information, the vikings were pagan, not christian, but that's besides the point. There's no logical link between muslims living in New York and the Saudi terrorists. In fact, there's already a mosque closer to ground zero, than the one proposed.
Do I agree with their religion? No, absolutely not. But the christian religion has the exact same potential to be intrinsically entwined with a barbaric society. Just(cont)
@itachi705 I got that wrong. It's five blocks away, where as the new centre is 2 blocks away. When I wrote that I thought that the new centre was 6 blocks away. I suppose that makes me 'a 'complete fucking idiot'.
@ImperialTexas look at the middle ages. The reason that Europe and Christianity (at least for the most part) got past that was seculer reasoning taking hold in society. And I don't see that the best way of secularising the muslim american population is comparing them to terrorists, accusing them of advocating sharia law and opposing them building a mosque, for no good reason.
@jungsbodyguard "new york's muslim residents agree with sharia law because they pray to in the direction of Mecca."
Again an additional clause that veers the meaning completely..Well I too think EVERY MUSLIM MUST BE in accord with 'Sharia law' by definition, but NOT merely because they pray towards mecca (It's mentioned just to show you the REAL ISLAM)!!
* Sharia Law is ISLAM'S LAW..What Muslim is a person if he/she doesn't comply with or desire 'Sharia Law'?
@TheAnonymousAspie I have not seriously researched this question, but I think one of the factors is that many atheists in the USA do not agree with lashing out at muslims after 911 just because a bunch of radicals did something horrible. This sentiment sometimes causes them to misidentify valid criticism of islam as the kind of populistic discrimination against islam that FOX news regurgitates.
Mocking christianity, catholicism, creationism, scientology, etc AS A WHOLE and blaming them for hindering society in many ways is apparently ok. Do the same to Islam and all of a sudden it's RACISM (Since when is the status of "muslim" considered a race?) and BIGOTRY.
Political Correctness is a sham. It is for politicians trading the wishes of their own native-born people for the votes of immigrants whose only stake in being here is to make as much money as possible and then retire in the homeland they originally came from. The greatest portion of racism in this world comes from non-whites who ALWAYS incorrectly assume that ALL white people are racists, which is, of course, a racist belief.
I'll be specific about this. The community center being proposed by the moderate Islamics is not a mosque. There is no teachings of Islam going on in it. The top 2 floors are for prayer only. The rest is for community use, that includes those of other religions. Granted the original name proposed wasn't the best choice but they corrected that.
I understand where you are coming from Thunderf00t, that Islam is a divisive and intolerant religion. And broadly I agree with you on that, because all religions are divisive and intolerant. Where I hate to disagree with you is the way you go about it. I know you have a right to free speech but you can get peoples backs up at times by the way you word things. You've been attacked in the past by Christians. If you come across like them, or fanatical Muslims, you lower yourself to their level
All he's doing is criticizing them for wrongs they've committed or clarifying beliefs and false propaganda. He's never attacked them for something they didn't do or didn't say. He's never been anything but honest, courteous, and thoughtful, even when presented with the opportunity and (in my eyes) plenty of justification to send a creationist asshole to jail for filing false copyright claims. He didn't do that, cause he doesn't lower himself to that.
This attitude, as I see it, is in the way for Islam's road towards change. If you had told Christians at the start, nay DURING the renaissance, that praying constituted agreeing with all of what is written in the Bible, would you have seen such a massive change of the concept of God in Europe? No. The change in perception and interpretation WAS what lead Europe to the civilisation of today, despite the fact that Christianity was obviously adapting itself to what we today call Western values.
On the question of Muslims that pray to Mecca: I have no idea how many of them do it five times a day or even get down on their knees to. But your point seems to be that despite the fact that they feel compelled to do it - as they would otherwise lose the connection to their religion - praying to the Kaaba means they can't be against the discrimination of non-Muslims. The act of praying to the Kaaba is a personal ratification of the holy book, not just "the overall meaning", but all of it.
I would just ignore these people. These people who make responses to many of your videos have no understanding of anything. You make well thought out videos and people assume you are for genocide or intolerance. It's ridiculous to say the least.
sexyabe makes an important point, in case it was not seen by anyone who wants to argue about it, or by Thunderf00t, who should certainly consider it: "We don't pray to Mecca, we pray to god. Mecca is our focal point. It's the first mosque built by the prophet Abrahim. Mecca is a place of worship not a place to stroll around. This is why non Muslims are prohibitted. It's not because we do not tolerate others."
Excellent response. I've been astounded how many fellow Atheists took strong exception when I raised an eyebrow at this mosque proposal. It seems even Atheists believe in being tolerant to the intolerant. One more reason why I am an anti-Theist.
@patrickthesaint DO you realise why the rest of the atheist community want to seperate from you.
YOU ARE BEING intolerant, and you expect them to be tolerant back.
The US consitution gives them the right the build that Mosque there, and your facist ideologies have no place in a modern society. Do you know that there were muslims who died in 9/11 too and not just "other people". And that most muslims in the west DONT support terrorism. Of course you dont, you dont know anyone.
@gulbirk Tolerance is a one-way street when it comes to Islam. To be tolerant of Islam is to be tolerant of misogyny, homophobia, and theocracy. Opposing such an ideology is not "fascist", it's progressive.
It is far from clear how many Muslims oppose terrorism. Sam Harris has cited some stats on British Muslims and the results are not encouraging. While there are Muslims who oppose killing the Danish cartoonist, they nevertheless agree he committed a huge moral offense.
@patrickthesaint Yes of course. HE DRAW MUHAMMED AS A PIG. If someone draw jesus as a PIG im pretty fucking sure the christians would find that offensive too.
Most muslims dont agree with killing or terrorism in general. Its facsistic to say that all muslims are this and this.
@patrickthesaint i totally agree from you i was a muslim and 3 generations of my family was (iam from finland) but your first point islam forbids the idea of suicide in itself so a suicide bomber is in its self stupid the use of suisice bomber is a guerilla tactic used first formally by the japanese in ww2 and vietnamese soldiers your seconds point i agree with cause of the constitution but the morals are wrong people are doing it not because of free speech but for the sole reason ofoffending
@patrickthesaint I agree massively. What they don't realise is that by granting religion freedom from criticism, they are marginalising and stopping our freedom of speech. The only solution is to remove censorship, and let everybody have their say, and see who's left standing.
My idea: Instead of wars over religious differences where my friends and families are hurt or killed. Each church sends out their pray team to do pray battle, they meet in the desert or arctic (flip a coin) and line up against each other, no food or water, they kneel and pray to their god to destroy the others. They each have their book saying to destroy those who don't believe in their god. This should prove there is or is not a god or just get rid of a bunch of really stupid people. peace out
@brengun42 are you saying science the thing that makes your everyday descisions and more than 500 of the everyday stuff you use and saves thousands of lives everyday is junk and stupid? You a fucking retard and I will enjoy watching you epicly fucking fail and I will laugh at you as you fail like believing 1 man created a entire universe and has done bullshit that does not have anything to do with physics actually makes you superior? FAIL! You pray and nothing happens that's what made me a athe
I don't understand many Atheists fascination with being critical of examination of either multiculturalism or any other culture that is not Western. Culture relativism is for the lazy.
We don't pray to Mecca, we pray to god. Mecca is our focal point. It's the first mosque built by the prophet Abrahim. Mecca is a place of worship not a place to stroll around. This is why non Muslims are prohibitted. It's not because we do not tolerate others.
@sexyabe you still get deported...how tolerant alright....make a wrong turn even if by honest mistake,the mutawa is there to whip you and send you home....
I'm kind of insulted I had to watch this video. I saw and understood the first one. This is less "part 2" as it is part 1 regurgitated for simpletons.
More and more people who are rather unintelligent are becoming atheists!
Back when Tf00t's fanbase were a handful of geeks and science junkies, this 'confusion' wouldn't have occurred. Granted Andro's wake was in there, but hey; we all have our off-days.
Point is, we're winning the flock of the casual intellectual!
I tend to debate many issues with people online and off. it is almost fundamental that people with take your words out of context,add or subtract from your initial words, or simply disregard everything you said in order to make an argument. The self proclaimed atheist in this video was so ham strung on his ego that he was willing to ignore context just for self grandeur .this is humanity though so what do you expect.
ISLAM IS A VERY DANGEROUSE CULT ANS SHOULD BE STOP BEFORE ITS TO LATE.THE MEDIA SILENCING HAS STARTED YOU CAN SEE ON YOUTUBE MOST OF THE ISSUES ABOUT ISLAM AS BEEN DISABLED FOR COMMENTS.WHY FOR ISLAM AND NOT FOR OTHER THINGS IS THE SIGN OF THE BEGINING OF ISLAMIC SUPREMASI.
i think the reason the europeans dont understand why we dont want it there, when muslims fly a plane into one of your buildings killing thousands of people then try to do the same thing, and you honestly think you would say "sure go right ahead" until you see where we are coming from you will never understand why we do the things we do. i agree with thunderfoot 100%
@colanarky12 You're fucking shitting me? HAHAHA you are right? Europeans hate the Islam more than Americans. You do understand that Muslims have done far worse to Europe than fly two planes into buildings?
Come to Europe, and ask what Europeans think of the Islamfication of their continent. I can guarantee you it'll be mostly negative responses. Most of us are against the mosques near ground zero.
We 'Europeans' completely understand where you Americans are coming from
@Jamesg104 Whether we want it on not though, is not the question. We are America and we live by our freedoms and rights. To say that it can't be built would be unAmerican. It would also put us in the same field as they are too, and we are better then that.
@Jamesg104 I think you totally misunderstood what I said. When i said "we" are Americans I was referring to the people of America and myself. I never said one bad thing about Europe, I was referring to Muslim terrorist when I said it would put us on the same field. All I was saying is that if we didn't allow Islam to build the mosque, it would go against our beliefs and the freedoms for which we fight for.
@sircorndog1 Personally I could care less for any religious building to ever be built again, but that's a personal hatred that I have for religion and the corruption that it brings. I know that that hate will not win this argument or create a world without such problems. It will only create new ones. We must show why our way of life is better and why we don't need intolerable beliefs in our society. This battle can only be one by educating.
i love how these idiots come up with their meaningless remarks and are almost immediately corrected of their ignorance and stupidity. your the man thunderf00t.
But it IS religious intolerance. Does it matter if religiously intolerant people point it out? This is of course making the assumption that all Muslims agree with or are even aware of the religious intolerance associated with Islam. People warp religion all the time to fit it in with modern social values, plenty of Christians support gay rights. Still, if the WBC noted religious intolerance in a group of people who actively pick on Christians, are those people any less religiously intolerant?
While I agree with what you have to say about the Saudi Muslims and their intolerance, I disagree that you can draw a parallel to Muslims in the U.S. The faction of Muslims you speak of in Saudi are fundamentalists, while the "ground Zero Mosque" Muslims you speak of do not subscribe to the hard line fundamentals of the Qur'an. In my opinion you conflate fundamental Islam with Western Islam.
Do they have the constitutional right to do so? yes
Should they do it? yes
why do I say this? because while I admit that it was a terrible thing, they're dragging the 9/11 terrorist attack through the ground for the sake of keeping enmity against the middle east, where they're fighting a war. America is the country that dropped two nukes on two Japanese cities, I.E civilians, as opposed to military bases. Suck it up, you've done worse, the worst thing is only the surprise.
I mostly think it's a non-issue. If it would not have been in bad taste pre-9/11, then it is not in bad taste now. People die, and those left behind grieve, and then move on. The 9/11 families have become nothing but self-important whiners, as if their suffering trumped all other suffering in the world. I used to empathize with them, but now they just disgust me. Otherwise, I'm indifferent to the "ground-zero mosque".
You can pray to Mecca while not supporting its religious intolerance just as you can be patriotic while not supporting America's constant military adventures. I'm atheist btw.
i feel that this video is completely unnecessary. however that is coming from a person who also emphasizes "conditional clauses" when making statements in a similar nature. i believe i understood your point and cannot see why it is so difficult for others to do the same.
i have thanked you previously for making your videos, but again, thank you. you have helped me grow in my beliefs.
I like how morons put words in your mouth for what I assume is an excuse to get on youtube to validate themselves. I thought you were pretty clear in the previous video.
I was honestly wondering about why part1 had so many thumbs down. I then watched a group of people attack the guy for things he didn't actually say.
By all means be critical of whatever you come across. But make sure you know what actually was said, before going on the offensive.
Multiculturalism is all well and good. But it doesn't work if one of the cultures you attempt to incorporate wants to be, for lack of a better word, monocultural.
They need to build the stupid mosque. The bad guys must not win.
Muslims in the US have no collective guilt for 9-11. In fact Islam has little to do with 9-11.
9-11 is blowback from US crimes around the Muslim World - payback's a bitch. It's too bad many innocents died. Many more innocents had already died in the Muslim World, and many more elsewhere from US atrocities. Of course people like Thunderf00t and the stupid neocons couldn't care less about that.
Maybe if Muslims would stop blowing themselves up, less innocents and Muslims would be killed dont you think?
Also perhaps if Muslims did something positive in the western countries they immigrated to instead of constantly stirring up shit, maybe they wouldnt be held in so low regard. As it stands now, Islam is nothing but a spreading virus and Muslims have done little to improve their own lives. Instead they'd rather stay angry at everyone and continue to oppress women. How nice.
@JDubs878 Time moves forward. History didn't start on 9-11. We kill them in far greater numbers and before they started killing us. You can't retroactively blame them for starting the killings when the US started it.
Regardless if the Muslims in Europe assimilate in their respective countries or not, it has nothing to do with the US. Muslims do just fine in the US. I think the problems in France have more to do with race. Their Muslims are from Africa - build the mosque.
I agree that we kill many more of them than they of us, but they havent been all that peaceful for a long time have they? And their hate of Jews and the west isn't a recent phenomena is it?
Also why is it that what happens in Europe doesn't matter to us? Isn't that the same argument used by isolationists during WWII? Yet what would've happened if the Nazis won? Maybe it wont affect us in the short term, but long term down the road I believe it will, especially for women.
@cpwm17 LOL "paybacks's a bitch." Does that mean you agree with America bombing Muslims countries in response to 9/11? After all "payback's a bitch." You are a fucking idiot for justifying 9/11 by saying something so cruel and stupid.
@itachi705 I oppose violence as a solution to almost anything - including both by Americans and Muslims.
My point is if we keep on fucking with them, they might fuck with us back. It's called payback, and Muslims have no collective guilt for payback. Our actions do have consequences.
The US is the World's leading promoter of violence, and our war making exceeds that of Muslims. We must not use their (real or imagined) violence as an excuse for more violence by us.
Well then by that logic, so do theirs. So do you agree with Americans killing innocent Muslims? After all, it is just "payback" and their "actions have consequences."
No, you're just a selective fuckwit. Their is no justification for killing innocent people. Americans are wrong for killing innocent Muslims but MUSLIMS ARE ALSO WRONG FOR KILLING INNOCENT AMERICANS. Your "payback" logic GOES BOTH WAYS.
How come Mecca and NY is comparable! Mecca can be compared with Vatican. And NY with DUBAI. You are mixing "Holy places" with "business Hub".
And what you was saying: RECIPROCATION
Muslims have all the rights to Build mosque according to US constitution; Americans Build several civilian and military bases in Saudi Arabia. Would you or your leaders let one Islamic(!) military base in Whole United states?
Give thanks to Saudis they are buying $60 billion of weapon from USA
ISLAM IS A VERY DANGEROUSE 7TH CENTURY WARLORD CULT, TAKEN AND CREATED FROM LITTLE BITS OF CHRISTIANITY AND HEBREWS TORAT.ISLAM IS CLEARLY WANTED TO DOMINATE THE WORLD SO UNLESS YOU WANT FO THIS WORLD TO BE TRANSFORMD INTO A ARABIAN DUST BIN YOU HAVE TO BECOME AWARE AND STOP IT.
@ForgotMyName3 New York and Mecca are different, but so are Mecca and the Vatican. It would be better to compare Mecca with Rome as a whole. Mecca, like Rome and unlike the Vatican, is a city containing millions of people in addition to being headquarters of a religion. Salt Lake City would be another good comparison. Are Non-Catholics allowed in Rome? Non-Mormons in SLC? Even given your original analogy, Muslims can visit the Vatican if they want to take in some of the finest graven images.
Your first video was fine in my books, but people will always misinterpret stuff I guess. I just think it's funny that your clarification was twice as long as your original video.
Both very good videos, though I come to expect that from you.
@lobbert8 I guess people don't get that, or do they just like getting humiliated in a clarification video and looking stupid? It's pretty funny in my opinion when i watch people look like idiots in these types of videos, simply because they can't interpret things on an 7th grade level. Or, because they are blinded by the religious ignorance of what reality truly is.
TF, The Mecca is not know as an icon of discrimination. Many Muslims don't even know about the rule of not letting non-muslims in to Mecca. And please, which religion does not have discriminatory verses???
the proplem here is that we in western nations see the irrational examples of islamaphobia every day. we see fundie christians assaulting islamists as though the application of their faiths would be any different. we see people fearing someone simply because they hail from a muslim nation, i.e. no establishment of who they actually are etc prior to hatred.
we do not wish to be associated with that. i saw what you were saying, but i think clarity: re no faith above, another would have served.
@maikit333 irrational examples of islamophobia? christians assaulting islamists?
try actually spending time around muslims. i was tutoring evolution to some first year undergrads in the computer lab of the university, when the muslims in the next room got so offended by it (because they dont believe it) that they demanded that i stop, and then complained to the university.
i know a number of people who have been assaulted here in australia because they dared say something against islam.
@maikit333 i am also yet to hear of the reverse. i do not know of one non-islamic person who has been assaulted. i am not saying it doesnt happen, i am saying that statistically, the reverse is much more common.
its got nothing to do with a different application of faiths.
i think a lot of this comes from people who are fed up. sure, there are extremists who think all muslims should die or whatever, but you cannot say that the reverse of this isnt true either.
@maikit333 look at the number of muslims, even muslim leaders who profess profound hatred for everything western, who openly declare war on all non-muslims, and you will begin to see a reasoning.
when you have people killing innocents, or cheering when they do, in the name of any religion, you will have those not of that religion get fed up with it, especially when it is done to the extent that is in the muslim world.
@maikit333 im not saying those who hate islam are right, but given what the majority of muslims in the world are trying to make islam what it has become, it is understandable that some people would reciprocate those feelings.
its less to do with bigotry and more to do with a conditioned response to the hatred shown by a lot of the muslims out there.
It still bugs me that your analogy for reciprocation was wrong.
Would there be an issue in building a church in Oklahoma?
Your main point seems to be that you wont take someones opinion on board if that opinion is couched in a hypocrisy, which is perfectly fine, and I agree with it, but it seems sort of redundant in this case, or any case that involves religious people, the whole mindset of such people is hypocritical in general.
"Would there be an issue in building a church in Oklahoma?"
McViegh didn't kill in the name of Christianity. A more apt, but still incorrect analogy would be "would there be an issue building a chruch near the building he bombed?"
Would it be equally acceptable to not allow churches within 1000 miles of a school?I know they have a right to practice their religion, but Im just wondering because I fear for my children. You always hear stories about how they cover up and hide all the abuses of thier petite parishioners.
If we cant be tolerant of the intolerant.. how does your opinion hold any weight? Its based on the assumption that all Muslims should be judged for the actions of a few and some words in a book.
Bravo. I had no objections to your first vid (because I actually listened to what was said rather than what I felt was said). I was wondering if maybe I was too easily swayed by a nice sounding voice when I read some of the comments.
Thunderfoot holds the ability to properly establish his statements in a truthful context; much like a lawyer would with a legal brief or statement. Many of the people you see responding to him are uneducated slobs. Note the employment of the word "many". Yet this will be mis-interpreted as all. I'm not sure how Thunderfoot pulls off these replies in such a cool manner, as it's fairly obvious that many people replying to him fly off the handle with no support or backbone in their rebuttals.
Question: Have you read leviticus? It states as ad things in it, however. Luckily we live in a developed country that does have an unfair government, the islam in New York should not be penalised for that and they certianly should not feel guilty for accepting an American 'thims up' saying "It's ok to have different eliefs, the land is yours, this is democracy!" Observation: Directly after saying 'not all' you show us a picture of around ox that says ALL MUSLIMS.
Question: Have you read leviticus? It states as ad things in it, however. Luckily we live in a developed country that does have an unfair government, the islam in New York should not be penalised for that and they certianly should not feel guilty for accepting an American 'thims up' saying "It's ok to have different eliefs, the land is yours, this is democracy!"
I'm convinced that mass opinion is not formed by logic or semantics, but by sheer momentum. Because people generally care what others think of their opinions, which is why they voice it in the first place, they find it's a great way to build and save face by jumping on the bandwagon of outraged disagreement. Thunderf00t's argument is as follows: If your religion in any way supports intolerance, then you cannot use tolerance as the basis for your argument when trying to gain acceptance. ...
... Thunderf00t's strangth is not in political opinion. He's demonstrated this clearly, unfortunately. But the fact is that the argument is valid: You can have two belief structures. But as soon as their core beliefs are in conflict, you must choose one side or the other. You cannot proclaim "all unbelievers are unclean," and then turn around and plead for acceptance because everyone deserves mutual respect for their beliefs. It simply doesn't work. It's called hypocrisy.
All religions default position except for maybe Buddahism is that our god dick is bigger then your gods and therefore your religion is false.
All religions are intolerant in the same way.
The only difference is in our system of govt did not allow people to infringe on anothers right to worship, because all religions are intolerant by nature.
That is why our system is set up not to let US interfere when a less powerful group wants to exercise their right to worship.
@Symbolc0729 And this matters? I'm not saying that they don't have the right to tolerance and acceptance. I'm saying that they don't have the right to preach that which they are unwilling to practice. If you are intolerant, then you cannot use the virtue of tolerance in your defense.
You are right of course. However the constitution doesnt say:"Freedom of religion unless your religion is intolerant". You also fail to understand that those religious edicts are enforced by governments that are afraid of losing their power once they lose the authority of God behind them.
Christianity as Islam did killed people who would not convert. They are equally intolerant.
The secular govt we have is only superior because we dont play favorites. Change that? No way.
@Symbolc0729 Like I said, I didn't say that they don't have the right to build the mosque. Nor did I say that they don't have the right to equal treatment. I say they don't have the right to use a virtue in their defense that they themselves do not practice.
I don't play favorites between Islam and Christianity. I'm an atheist. I find them both deplorable.
They should not build a mosque there, they should instead build a homeless shelter or some other good will center to show they are not the same as the ones that attacked us.
They have the right, but it's not morally sound to build a mosque specifically. If they want to make a good impression on us, they'd help the US people as a whole, with no regard for belief, sexual orientation, gender, etc..
KittenKoder 2 days ago
its a atheists right to call out how fucked up any and all religions are and that doesn't make us a bigot.
nikoro1234 3 days ago
Yah. I just don't get it. The atheists here on YT (who seem to be mostly anti-theists - as am I) will verbally destroy xians with glee, and remark on how clearly deluded ALL religious people are. But when it is suggested that, for numerous reasons, a MOSQUE (yep) at G0 is a bad idea, they run to their islam - err, I mean tolerance - defense positions? WTF? Why don't they just STFU and stop being INTOLERANT of religion in general? What a bunch of hypocrites.
jmcgurk01 4 days ago
good effort, thunderfoot
MrPlopqwerty 5 days ago
@jhcdnx yep, only for muslims. muslims are a group defined by religion. people are prevented from entering Mecca by virtue of being part of an identifiable group. the identifiable group is non-Muslim. religious-based discrimination. not acceptable here, in Canada.
Hunn1313 5 days ago
Many atheists get very annoyed when Islam is criticized while they wouldn't bat an eye when Christianity is criticized in an even more violent or supposedly "unfair" fashion.
That shit annoys the shit out of me. I'm an atheist, I criticize all religions, I'm fairly well informed with most of what these religions say and do, and I definitely detest Islam the most, and refuse to be lectured by other atheists who get uncontrollably offended and compare "islamophobia" with some form of racism.
Wotanraven 5 days ago
The end does appear to be near. Not by the action of any god but by the idea of a god.
gateman42 1 week ago
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It's not religious discrimination, deal with that it's only a place for muslims. What do you want to do in Mecca anyways?
I doubt ultra ortodox jews like when a christian or atheist enters their synagogue. Take a look at israeli settlers, they are VERY radical. They call every journalist entering these settlements "nazis" and in some cases fight them or get violent.
In what way is it discrimination to keep your holiest place to yourself?
It's NOT! It is only for muslims without hating.
jhcdnx 1 week ago
People hear what they want to hear
Best way to destroy free speech is to get it to destroy itself
sol3a1 2 weeks ago
Yes, we need to make a clear distinction between 'tolerating' ideas and people, and 'respecting' them. TF00ts first video was basically saying that he does not respect the reasons for a mosque to be built, yet he can tolerate it because they have a fundamental right.
In summary: You have a right to be an idiot, but people aren't required to respect you for it!
josephdorrell 1 month ago 2
@josephdorrell Here, effin' here to this response! No religion is beyond questioning Atheists. I'm not against people of Arab descent nor should we be, but if there are Arabs with bat shit crazy ideas that discriminate against people and end up people being killed, like I dunno, Islam maybe we should call them out on their hypocrisies as well as the hypocrisies of Xians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, ect, ect.
TheEyeSock 5 days ago
Thunderfoot: I understand your point, and agree with it. I am baffled why so many people didn't bother to listen to your original video before they went off on you.
mike112769 1 month ago 2
wow people are freakin retarded that they can;t understand the point of that video -.-
vivalafiaga 3 months ago
@ForgotMyName3 The point is that even though there is no mosque in the Vatican, muslims are still free to enter. In Mecca, not only are there no churches, but non-muslims aren't even allowed to enter. You are a fucking idiot for saying it's "their right." Yes, it is, and it is also our right to call them intolerant bigots for doing so. If the pope declared that no muslims are allowed in the Vatican you would say the same thing. You are a fucking hypocrite.
itachi705 3 months ago
Even years after 9/11 and numerous other JIHAD attacks around the World...I was not that much into reading about Islam and stuffs..till I heard that there is gonna be a mosque 2 blocks away from the Ground Zero..Frankly speaking it blew my mind!!
I's like wtf..wtf?
Then I heard someone(Probably an Islam-sympathizer) saying "ISLAM is *the* Religion of Peace..!"
* That was the Last Straw..I read Qur'an 3 times in 1 month and Guess what I found out?
NO Chapter in Qur'an INTEGRALLY Admits of PEACE!
Death2Hatred 4 months ago
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Death2Hatred 4 months ago
Do they have the right to Build the mosque?
Yes.Sure!
But Do they have any immediate necessity to Build ONE MORE mosque?
I genuinely don't think so.
What is really QUEER is that they are peddling this WITLESS CANARD that It's somehow a "BIG BLOW TO THE EXTREMISTS"..as though these "Extremists" are somehow averse to building a Mosque and hence it would really *TERRIFY* them..!!
* TRUTH:
The "extremists" couldn't have asked for any better reward for 9/11 than this!!
Why is this so hard to grasp?
Death2Hatred 4 months ago 3
Qur'an (Surah 5:51) - "O you who believe! do NOT take the JEWS and the CHRISTIANS for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of THEM; surely Allah does not guide the *WRONGDOERS*."
Now please reconcile the above verse with ongoing Islam's [Utterly Fake, Deceptive and flamboyantly ostensible] peace-process with Christian and Jews..
FYI, This verse was narrated when Muhammad came to power..It expands the scope of hostility!
baristha 4 months ago 2
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People here in Saudi (I'm a local) know these words (tolerance, freedom, equality, free speech) have positive connotations in the West because they see these words celebrated and lauded in the western world. So... since they believe their stupid awful and horrible religion is perfect, they believe all good words must apply to it. OR they believe it's okay to lie to infidels so they co-opt the words to describe the religion; logic be damned. But most Saudis do not actually understand these terms.
kalbahamut 5 months ago
"[saudi] People ..know these words (tolerance, freedom, equality, free speech) have positive connotations"
1. Will I last even 15 minutes If I said the following in the streets of Saudi Arabia, "Muhammad, according to hadiths such as sahih bukhari, sahih Muslim, etc,.. was a lecher, pedophile, vengeful narcissist..and thus a scorn-worthy piece of shit"...?
2. Why aren't Non-Muslims allowed to even enter the Mecca??
Makes me sick to think a saudi is lecturing us on Tolerance and Free-speech..!
baristha 4 months ago 2
@baristha are you trying to disagree with me? If so it makes me think you didn't read my entire comment.
kalbahamut 4 months ago
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@kalbahamut "Saudis do not actually understand these terms."
Wrong..!
If saudis did understand what those words meant they won't have banned women from driving, won't have included in their curriculum the books which say "JEWS ARE descendants of APES AND CHRISTIANS ARE of PIGS.."! com'on!
"are you trying to disagree with me? If so it makes me think you didn't read my entire comment."
I think you misunderstood me....I'm NOT trying..hell yeah, I AM outright (100%) DISAGREEING WITH YOU!
baristha 4 months ago 2
I love that you take the time to reply to people that obviously missed the point, full kudos to you for not only taking the high ground but owning it. As an atheist I'm only sad that as a group we don't elect a leader to speak on our behalf rather than having the media do it for us. You show knowledge outside your chosen field of study and present your arguments intelligently and articulately and give no offense outside the relm of the content. If I had teachers like you I'd have stayed in c
Lordpoison67 5 months ago
I'm all for religious freedom. Hell, I even fight for it, along with all the other rights and freedoms America stands for, but all this intolerance between religions makes me feel we should get rid of all religions all together.
HimesInu 5 months ago
It does seem that Muslims insist on tolerance but there is such a sharp dichotomy in the religions. Mecca bans all non-Muslims. Whereas a similar place like St. Peter's Square lets you see the Vatican, monuments, statues, and even the Pope. Anyone can go there, in fact Muhammad Ali Agca got close enough to the Pope to get a clean shot off!
Dracopol 5 months ago
@Dracopol this is very true, but many Muslims do not understand your point because they are constantly projecting. They assume that other religions are just as horrible and intolerant as their own religion, so to them when they see Islam being singled out they don't understand why. I've asked people here in Saudi Arabia about why a non-Muslim should fear for his life when visiting Mecca, and their answer is often "well, if a Muslim went to the Vatican, he would also be killed, right?" Honestly.
kalbahamut 5 months ago
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@Dracopol "It does seem that Muslims insist on tolerance "
where does it seem that?
baristha 4 months ago
It does seem that Muslims insist on tolerance but there is such a sharp dichotomy in the religions. Mecca bans all non-Muslims. Whereas a similar place like St. Peter's Square lets you see the Vatican, monuments, statues, and even the Pope. Anyone can go there, in fact Muhammad Ali Agca got close enough to the Pope to get a clean shot off!
Dracopol 5 months ago
i agree with this guy, i am all for Muslims having the freedom of religion, but they do not. what people need to understand in most Islamic countries they suppress democracy, they treat freedom of speech and any country that has it as a taboo, a demonic hell. what he was saying was that the muslim world likes to lecture the world on freedom of religion but kill it in their own countries because it makes governing everyone life so much easier. religion is the perfect tool of social control.
MAnnaconduit1 6 months ago 3
Muslims have the right to build it. However, if 19 atheist bombed the sears tower IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM, I would have the common decency to not build an atheist community center that close.
spatch8806 6 months ago
Sorry Thunderf00t, I disagree with you here. As an atheist, I have little time for religions of any sort, especially fundamentalist Islam. But you suggest that new york's muslim residents agree with sharia law because they pray to in the direction of Mecca. Surely ridiculous?
Anders Behring Breivik was a fundamentalist christian who massacred people in Oslo. Would you kick up a fuss if a new church was being built in Oslo? Would that get ANY attention? Should it?
NO, on both accounts.
jungsbodyguard 6 months ago
@jungsbodyguard That's completely different. Anders Behring Breivik was a Christian who massacred people in a predominately Christian state. 9/11 was Muslims who massacred people in a predominately Christian nations, Anders killed his own while 9/11 was foreigners who killed locals. And there probably are multiple churches being built in Oslo right now, it's been Christian since Viking times. Go pick up a history book and learn something you swine.
ImperialTexas 6 months ago
@ImperialTexas Wow. There's no need to resort to ad hominem assaults. For your information, the vikings were pagan, not christian, but that's besides the point. There's no logical link between muslims living in New York and the Saudi terrorists. In fact, there's already a mosque closer to ground zero, than the one proposed.
Do I agree with their religion? No, absolutely not. But the christian religion has the exact same potential to be intrinsically entwined with a barbaric society. Just(cont)
jungsbodyguard 6 months ago
@jungsbodyguard
"In fact, there's already a mosque closer to ground zero, than the one proposed."
No, there isn't, you complete fucking idiot.
itachi705 3 months ago
@itachi705 I got that wrong. It's five blocks away, where as the new centre is 2 blocks away. When I wrote that I thought that the new centre was 6 blocks away. I suppose that makes me 'a 'complete fucking idiot'.
Still, what difference do 3 extra blocks make.
jungsbodyguard 3 months ago
@ImperialTexas look at the middle ages. The reason that Europe and Christianity (at least for the most part) got past that was seculer reasoning taking hold in society. And I don't see that the best way of secularising the muslim american population is comparing them to terrorists, accusing them of advocating sharia law and opposing them building a mosque, for no good reason.
jungsbodyguard 6 months ago
@jungsbodyguard "new york's muslim residents agree with sharia law because they pray to in the direction of Mecca."
Again an additional clause that veers the meaning completely..Well I too think EVERY MUSLIM MUST BE in accord with 'Sharia law' by definition, but NOT merely because they pray towards mecca (It's mentioned just to show you the REAL ISLAM)!!
* Sharia Law is ISLAM'S LAW..What Muslim is a person if he/she doesn't comply with or desire 'Sharia Law'?
Don't obfuscate the Issue please!
Death2Hatred 4 months ago 2
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Seriously … what sane person (a.k.a. non-muslim) would want to go to a fucked-up shithole like Mecca in the first place?!
macmarine 6 months ago
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macmarine 6 months ago
@TheAnonymousAspie I have not seriously researched this question, but I think one of the factors is that many atheists in the USA do not agree with lashing out at muslims after 911 just because a bunch of radicals did something horrible. This sentiment sometimes causes them to misidentify valid criticism of islam as the kind of populistic discrimination against islam that FOX news regurgitates.
Turgor 7 months ago
Dear Thunderf00t : Oh the patience that you have...
Thank You for your enormous social contribution.
thenoeggplantzone 7 months ago
proud of being a muslim i accept and respect the other 2 only who dares plz go 2 rekkitten
TheAngelofliberty 8 months ago
"Clarification is not to make oneself clear, but to put oneself in the clear" - Sir Humphrey Appleby; great video.
fpsBeaTt 8 months ago
As a person who was born a "muslim", I completely agree with the points you raised and I don't know what these idiots are talking about!
ShahnamPersia 8 months ago
Mocking christianity, catholicism, creationism, scientology, etc AS A WHOLE and blaming them for hindering society in many ways is apparently ok. Do the same to Islam and all of a sudden it's RACISM (Since when is the status of "muslim" considered a race?) and BIGOTRY.
There's a thing called, hypocrisy...
alias100 8 months ago
Political Correctness is a sham. It is for politicians trading the wishes of their own native-born people for the votes of immigrants whose only stake in being here is to make as much money as possible and then retire in the homeland they originally came from. The greatest portion of racism in this world comes from non-whites who ALWAYS incorrectly assume that ALL white people are racists, which is, of course, a racist belief.
mikespulligan 9 months ago
@mikespulligan
Dude.......this is what i've been saying for years.
Never stop!
sonykroket 9 months ago
the bloke in a red stripey shirt................you can tell he has had sex with a member of his own family before...........
MrDrummerdude16 9 months ago
I'll be specific about this. The community center being proposed by the moderate Islamics is not a mosque. There is no teachings of Islam going on in it. The top 2 floors are for prayer only. The rest is for community use, that includes those of other religions. Granted the original name proposed wasn't the best choice but they corrected that.
lautz73 10 months ago
haters gonna hate
brongarago 10 months ago
Or 3:20
sonykroket 10 months ago
Who's the policor douchebag at 2.28
sonykroket 10 months ago
I understand where you are coming from Thunderf00t, that Islam is a divisive and intolerant religion. And broadly I agree with you on that, because all religions are divisive and intolerant. Where I hate to disagree with you is the way you go about it. I know you have a right to free speech but you can get peoples backs up at times by the way you word things. You've been attacked in the past by Christians. If you come across like them, or fanatical Muslims, you lower yourself to their level
ThomasTrue 10 months ago
@ThomasTrue
All he's doing is criticizing them for wrongs they've committed or clarifying beliefs and false propaganda. He's never attacked them for something they didn't do or didn't say. He's never been anything but honest, courteous, and thoughtful, even when presented with the opportunity and (in my eyes) plenty of justification to send a creationist asshole to jail for filing false copyright claims. He didn't do that, cause he doesn't lower himself to that.
SirKickz 8 months ago
This attitude, as I see it, is in the way for Islam's road towards change. If you had told Christians at the start, nay DURING the renaissance, that praying constituted agreeing with all of what is written in the Bible, would you have seen such a massive change of the concept of God in Europe? No. The change in perception and interpretation WAS what lead Europe to the civilisation of today, despite the fact that Christianity was obviously adapting itself to what we today call Western values.
meh23p 11 months ago
On the question of Muslims that pray to Mecca: I have no idea how many of them do it five times a day or even get down on their knees to. But your point seems to be that despite the fact that they feel compelled to do it - as they would otherwise lose the connection to their religion - praying to the Kaaba means they can't be against the discrimination of non-Muslims. The act of praying to the Kaaba is a personal ratification of the holy book, not just "the overall meaning", but all of it.
meh23p 11 months ago
Dont worry thunderfoot, we are not all idiots, some do listen instead of projecting their own assumptions.
Whaloroth 11 months ago
I love how these people just paraphrase then say it's a quote
magicalhearingman 11 months ago
I would just ignore these people. These people who make responses to many of your videos have no understanding of anything. You make well thought out videos and people assume you are for genocide or intolerance. It's ridiculous to say the least.
Stealthmachin3 11 months ago
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sexyabe makes an important point, in case it was not seen by anyone who wants to argue about it, or by Thunderf00t, who should certainly consider it: "We don't pray to Mecca, we pray to god. Mecca is our focal point. It's the first mosque built by the prophet Abrahim. Mecca is a place of worship not a place to stroll around. This is why non Muslims are prohibitted. It's not because we do not tolerate others."
myskyren 11 months ago
Excellent response. I've been astounded how many fellow Atheists took strong exception when I raised an eyebrow at this mosque proposal. It seems even Atheists believe in being tolerant to the intolerant. One more reason why I am an anti-Theist.
patrickthesaint 1 year ago 27
@patrickthesaint DO you realise why the rest of the atheist community want to seperate from you.
YOU ARE BEING intolerant, and you expect them to be tolerant back.
The US consitution gives them the right the build that Mosque there, and your facist ideologies have no place in a modern society. Do you know that there were muslims who died in 9/11 too and not just "other people". And that most muslims in the west DONT support terrorism. Of course you dont, you dont know anyone.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk Tolerance is a one-way street when it comes to Islam. To be tolerant of Islam is to be tolerant of misogyny, homophobia, and theocracy. Opposing such an ideology is not "fascist", it's progressive.
It is far from clear how many Muslims oppose terrorism. Sam Harris has cited some stats on British Muslims and the results are not encouraging. While there are Muslims who oppose killing the Danish cartoonist, they nevertheless agree he committed a huge moral offense.
patrickthesaint 3 months ago
@patrickthesaint Yes of course. HE DRAW MUHAMMED AS A PIG. If someone draw jesus as a PIG im pretty fucking sure the christians would find that offensive too.
Most muslims dont agree with killing or terrorism in general. Its facsistic to say that all muslims are this and this.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk #1 That wasn't the reason. In Islam, depicting Muhammad in any form is sacrilege.
#2 Muhammad was drawn as a suicide bomber. Since Muhammad was a warrior, Muslims have no reason to be offended by this.
#3 Freedom of speech includes the freedom to offend. What these Muslims were actually saying is they want censorship. That IS fascism.
#4 Muhammad taught his followers to use violence to spread Islam. Muslims who oppose these teachings are heretics to their religion.
patrickthesaint 3 months ago 4
@patrickthesaint i totally agree from you i was a muslim and 3 generations of my family was (iam from finland) but your first point islam forbids the idea of suicide in itself so a suicide bomber is in its self stupid the use of suisice bomber is a guerilla tactic used first formally by the japanese in ww2 and vietnamese soldiers your seconds point i agree with cause of the constitution but the morals are wrong people are doing it not because of free speech but for the sole reason ofoffending
TimurTheConqueror 3 months ago 2
@patrickthesaint I agree massively. What they don't realise is that by granting religion freedom from criticism, they are marginalising and stopping our freedom of speech. The only solution is to remove censorship, and let everybody have their say, and see who's left standing.
93Cobalt 20 hours ago
nonsense!
ubaid156 1 year ago
are the only people that reply to your videos the ones that weren't listen to them?
320iguy 1 year ago
Muslims are MASSIVE bigots and hypocrites who point the finger at others yet treat Christians like trash in their own country.
Deport the MOON-god worshipping LUNATICS to Iran otherwise prepare for Civil War.
truthjustice7878 1 year ago
thunderfoot, you are really good at arguing :)
rokareltje4 1 year ago
ewww whats the name of the fat nerd at 2:36 ?
Fiorentina222 1 year ago
My idea: Instead of wars over religious differences where my friends and families are hurt or killed. Each church sends out their pray team to do pray battle, they meet in the desert or arctic (flip a coin) and line up against each other, no food or water, they kneel and pray to their god to destroy the others. They each have their book saying to destroy those who don't believe in their god. This should prove there is or is not a god or just get rid of a bunch of really stupid people. peace out
alanjavis 1 year ago 39
@brengun42 are you saying science the thing that makes your everyday descisions and more than 500 of the everyday stuff you use and saves thousands of lives everyday is junk and stupid? You a fucking retard and I will enjoy watching you epicly fucking fail and I will laugh at you as you fail like believing 1 man created a entire universe and has done bullshit that does not have anything to do with physics actually makes you superior? FAIL! You pray and nothing happens that's what made me a athe
MrAwesomesauce101 1 year ago
you got such a relaxing voice, ever thought of doing some voice overs or something?
YuorMomFcuk 1 year ago
I don't understand many Atheists fascination with being critical of examination of either multiculturalism or any other culture that is not Western. Culture relativism is for the lazy.
gsx1138 1 year ago
Lol look @ Tim Allen appear @ 2:17.
What about the Prawn @ the 3minute mark..
Keep up the good work Thunderf00t. You present a well constructed arguement & are happy to listen to & refute idiots like these 2.
MH240207 1 year ago
Many non-americans do not have the right to enter the US. Using your own argument, why should you have the right to enter Mecca?
dcamozzato 1 year ago
L2 English guys. =P
MrBranboom 1 year ago
@fr0ber your comparison is as stupid as you are
sexyabe 1 year ago
We don't pray to Mecca, we pray to god. Mecca is our focal point. It's the first mosque built by the prophet Abrahim. Mecca is a place of worship not a place to stroll around. This is why non Muslims are prohibitted. It's not because we do not tolerate others.
sexyabe 1 year ago
@sexyabe That's what I'm telling females when I found a sexist institution, this is a place for men, not a place to stroll around you dumb woman!
fr0ber 1 year ago
@sexyabe you still get deported...how tolerant alright....make a wrong turn even if by honest mistake,the mutawa is there to whip you and send you home....
triggersafe 8 months ago
what the hell? are these people retarded?
JohnnyBlade68 1 year ago
I'm kind of insulted I had to watch this video. I saw and understood the first one. This is less "part 2" as it is part 1 regurgitated for simpletons.
Orpheusftw 1 year ago
Oh your an atheist....makes alot of sense.
Iqra1289 1 year ago
@Iqra1289 it's you're not your
cosmothechihuahuadog 1 year ago
@cosmothechihuahuadog
Pardon?
Iqra1289 1 year ago
Sweet. You know what this really means?
More and more people who are rather unintelligent are becoming atheists!
Back when Tf00t's fanbase were a handful of geeks and science junkies, this 'confusion' wouldn't have occurred. Granted Andro's wake was in there, but hey; we all have our off-days.
Point is, we're winning the flock of the casual intellectual!
brengun42 1 year ago
in favor of thunderfoot.
I tend to debate many issues with people online and off. it is almost fundamental that people with take your words out of context,add or subtract from your initial words, or simply disregard everything you said in order to make an argument. The self proclaimed atheist in this video was so ham strung on his ego that he was willing to ignore context just for self grandeur .this is humanity though so what do you expect.
turnipdaisy 1 year ago
@AdministratorFLG what is more important my opinion or my keyboard.
igedeanunya 1 year ago
ISLAM IS A VERY DANGEROUSE CULT ANS SHOULD BE STOP BEFORE ITS TO LATE.THE MEDIA SILENCING HAS STARTED YOU CAN SEE ON YOUTUBE MOST OF THE ISSUES ABOUT ISLAM AS BEEN DISABLED FOR COMMENTS.WHY FOR ISLAM AND NOT FOR OTHER THINGS IS THE SIGN OF THE BEGINING OF ISLAMIC SUPREMASI.
igedeanunya 1 year ago 2
dealing with what you actually said? since when would people do that, it is way more to attack you for what we want to believe you said :D
robertgaudlitz 1 year ago
i think Thunderf00t speaks too sophisticatedly for some people to comprehend
ShockMaster121 1 year ago
Clearly, people will hear what they want. That's what the problem seems to be- to me at least.
radahad000 1 year ago
i wonder if that guy's a catholic atheist or protestant atheist
shnosmas 1 year ago
i think the reason the europeans dont understand why we dont want it there, when muslims fly a plane into one of your buildings killing thousands of people then try to do the same thing, and you honestly think you would say "sure go right ahead" until you see where we are coming from you will never understand why we do the things we do. i agree with thunderfoot 100%
colanarky12 1 year ago
@colanarky12 You're fucking shitting me? HAHAHA you are right? Europeans hate the Islam more than Americans. You do understand that Muslims have done far worse to Europe than fly two planes into buildings?
Come to Europe, and ask what Europeans think of the Islamfication of their continent. I can guarantee you it'll be mostly negative responses. Most of us are against the mosques near ground zero.
We 'Europeans' completely understand where you Americans are coming from
Jamesg104 1 year ago
@Jamesg104 Whether we want it on not though, is not the question. We are America and we live by our freedoms and rights. To say that it can't be built would be unAmerican. It would also put us in the same field as they are too, and we are better then that.
sircorndog1 1 year ago
Comment removed
Jamesg104 1 year ago
@sircorndog1 1) I'm not American I'm European
2) You aren't better than us. You're the fucking same
3) We also have freedom and rights too. Europeans have had to fight so many wars for these rights.
Jamesg104 1 year ago
@Jamesg104 I think you totally misunderstood what I said. When i said "we" are Americans I was referring to the people of America and myself. I never said one bad thing about Europe, I was referring to Muslim terrorist when I said it would put us on the same field. All I was saying is that if we didn't allow Islam to build the mosque, it would go against our beliefs and the freedoms for which we fight for.
sircorndog1 1 year ago
@sircorndog1 Personally I could care less for any religious building to ever be built again, but that's a personal hatred that I have for religion and the corruption that it brings. I know that that hate will not win this argument or create a world without such problems. It will only create new ones. We must show why our way of life is better and why we don't need intolerable beliefs in our society. This battle can only be one by educating.
sircorndog1 1 year ago
Go thunderf00t!
soilandstar 1 year ago
i love how these idiots come up with their meaningless remarks and are almost immediately corrected of their ignorance and stupidity. your the man thunderf00t.
northsidemarine 1 year ago 2
But it IS religious intolerance. Does it matter if religiously intolerant people point it out? This is of course making the assumption that all Muslims agree with or are even aware of the religious intolerance associated with Islam. People warp religion all the time to fit it in with modern social values, plenty of Christians support gay rights. Still, if the WBC noted religious intolerance in a group of people who actively pick on Christians, are those people any less religiously intolerant?
doombuggy123 1 year ago
Thunderfoot-
While I agree with what you have to say about the Saudi Muslims and their intolerance, I disagree that you can draw a parallel to Muslims in the U.S. The faction of Muslims you speak of in Saudi are fundamentalists, while the "ground Zero Mosque" Muslims you speak of do not subscribe to the hard line fundamentals of the Qur'an. In my opinion you conflate fundamental Islam with Western Islam.
snowbaordguru 1 year ago
Can they do it? yes
Do they have the constitutional right to do so? yes
Should they do it? yes
why do I say this? because while I admit that it was a terrible thing, they're dragging the 9/11 terrorist attack through the ground for the sake of keeping enmity against the middle east, where they're fighting a war. America is the country that dropped two nukes on two Japanese cities, I.E civilians, as opposed to military bases. Suck it up, you've done worse, the worst thing is only the surprise.
Zuifan 1 year ago
I mostly think it's a non-issue. If it would not have been in bad taste pre-9/11, then it is not in bad taste now. People die, and those left behind grieve, and then move on. The 9/11 families have become nothing but self-important whiners, as if their suffering trumped all other suffering in the world. I used to empathize with them, but now they just disgust me. Otherwise, I'm indifferent to the "ground-zero mosque".
OriginalTharios 1 year ago
You can pray to Mecca while not supporting its religious intolerance just as you can be patriotic while not supporting America's constant military adventures. I'm atheist btw.
OgreMECH 1 year ago
i feel that this video is completely unnecessary. however that is coming from a person who also emphasizes "conditional clauses" when making statements in a similar nature. i believe i understood your point and cannot see why it is so difficult for others to do the same.
i have thanked you previously for making your videos, but again, thank you. you have helped me grow in my beliefs.
44jackhammer 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Youtube: Serious fucking business
Omnikarp 1 year ago
Comment removed
Omnikarp 1 year ago
I like how morons put words in your mouth for what I assume is an excuse to get on youtube to validate themselves. I thought you were pretty clear in the previous video.
hybriddefect 1 year ago
I was honestly wondering about why part1 had so many thumbs down. I then watched a group of people attack the guy for things he didn't actually say.
By all means be critical of whatever you come across. But make sure you know what actually was said, before going on the offensive.
Multiculturalism is all well and good. But it doesn't work if one of the cultures you attempt to incorporate wants to be, for lack of a better word, monocultural.
Off111 1 year ago
They need to build the stupid mosque. The bad guys must not win.
Muslims in the US have no collective guilt for 9-11. In fact Islam has little to do with 9-11.
9-11 is blowback from US crimes around the Muslim World - payback's a bitch. It's too bad many innocents died. Many more innocents had already died in the Muslim World, and many more elsewhere from US atrocities. Of course people like Thunderf00t and the stupid neocons couldn't care less about that.
cpwm17 1 year ago
@cpwm17
Maybe if Muslims would stop blowing themselves up, less innocents and Muslims would be killed dont you think?
Also perhaps if Muslims did something positive in the western countries they immigrated to instead of constantly stirring up shit, maybe they wouldnt be held in so low regard. As it stands now, Islam is nothing but a spreading virus and Muslims have done little to improve their own lives. Instead they'd rather stay angry at everyone and continue to oppress women. How nice.
JDubs878 1 year ago
@JDubs878 Time moves forward. History didn't start on 9-11. We kill them in far greater numbers and before they started killing us. You can't retroactively blame them for starting the killings when the US started it.
Regardless if the Muslims in Europe assimilate in their respective countries or not, it has nothing to do with the US. Muslims do just fine in the US. I think the problems in France have more to do with race. Their Muslims are from Africa - build the mosque.
cpwm17 1 year ago
@cpwm17
I agree that we kill many more of them than they of us, but they havent been all that peaceful for a long time have they? And their hate of Jews and the west isn't a recent phenomena is it?
Also why is it that what happens in Europe doesn't matter to us? Isn't that the same argument used by isolationists during WWII? Yet what would've happened if the Nazis won? Maybe it wont affect us in the short term, but long term down the road I believe it will, especially for women.
JDubs878 1 year ago
@cpwm17 LOL "paybacks's a bitch." Does that mean you agree with America bombing Muslims countries in response to 9/11? After all "payback's a bitch." You are a fucking idiot for justifying 9/11 by saying something so cruel and stupid.
itachi705 3 months ago
@itachi705 I oppose violence as a solution to almost anything - including both by Americans and Muslims.
My point is if we keep on fucking with them, they might fuck with us back. It's called payback, and Muslims have no collective guilt for payback. Our actions do have consequences.
The US is the World's leading promoter of violence, and our war making exceeds that of Muslims. We must not use their (real or imagined) violence as an excuse for more violence by us.
cpwm17 3 months ago
@cpwm17
"Our actions do have consequences."
Well then by that logic, so do theirs. So do you agree with Americans killing innocent Muslims? After all, it is just "payback" and their "actions have consequences."
No, you're just a selective fuckwit. Their is no justification for killing innocent people. Americans are wrong for killing innocent Muslims but MUSLIMS ARE ALSO WRONG FOR KILLING INNOCENT AMERICANS. Your "payback" logic GOES BOTH WAYS.
itachi705 3 months ago
How come Mecca and NY is comparable! Mecca can be compared with Vatican. And NY with DUBAI. You are mixing "Holy places" with "business Hub".
And what you was saying: RECIPROCATION
Muslims have all the rights to Build mosque according to US constitution; Americans Build several civilian and military bases in Saudi Arabia. Would you or your leaders let one Islamic(!) military base in Whole United states?
Give thanks to Saudis they are buying $60 billion of weapon from USA
Saudi Bail- out
javedmahmood 1 year ago
@ForgotMyName3 NO MOSQUE IN ITALY? MAN HO MAN YOUR A IDIOT.
igedeanunya 1 year ago
ISLAM IS A VERY DANGEROUSE 7TH CENTURY WARLORD CULT, TAKEN AND CREATED FROM LITTLE BITS OF CHRISTIANITY AND HEBREWS TORAT.ISLAM IS CLEARLY WANTED TO DOMINATE THE WORLD SO UNLESS YOU WANT FO THIS WORLD TO BE TRANSFORMD INTO A ARABIAN DUST BIN YOU HAVE TO BECOME AWARE AND STOP IT.
igedeanunya 1 year ago
@igedeanunya ALL CAPS DON'T MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT MORE VALID.
Although painful to read, I see your point.
TheGoodColonel 1 year ago
@TheGoodColonel its in caps so you can see my points.
igedeanunya 1 year ago
@ForgotMyName3 New York and Mecca are different, but so are Mecca and the Vatican. It would be better to compare Mecca with Rome as a whole. Mecca, like Rome and unlike the Vatican, is a city containing millions of people in addition to being headquarters of a religion. Salt Lake City would be another good comparison. Are Non-Catholics allowed in Rome? Non-Mormons in SLC? Even given your original analogy, Muslims can visit the Vatican if they want to take in some of the finest graven images.
bcgonynor 1 year ago
the misinterpretations that people got out of your video were insane. I don't understand where they got their facts from
SW3ETsummer 1 year ago
Your first video was fine in my books, but people will always misinterpret stuff I guess. I just think it's funny that your clarification was twice as long as your original video.
Both very good videos, though I come to expect that from you.
Lennac 1 year ago 33
All he's saying is that the people who worship intolerance shouldn't be taken serously when they ask for tolerance.
lobbert8 1 year ago 46
@lobbert8 I guess people don't get that, or do they just like getting humiliated in a clarification video and looking stupid? It's pretty funny in my opinion when i watch people look like idiots in these types of videos, simply because they can't interpret things on an 7th grade level. Or, because they are blinded by the religious ignorance of what reality truly is.
freeST00FnahJK 10 months ago
TF, The Mecca is not know as an icon of discrimination. Many Muslims don't even know about the rule of not letting non-muslims in to Mecca. And please, which religion does not have discriminatory verses???
thelegendarypaki 1 year ago
the proplem here is that we in western nations see the irrational examples of islamaphobia every day. we see fundie christians assaulting islamists as though the application of their faiths would be any different. we see people fearing someone simply because they hail from a muslim nation, i.e. no establishment of who they actually are etc prior to hatred.
we do not wish to be associated with that. i saw what you were saying, but i think clarity: re no faith above, another would have served.
maikit333 1 year ago
@maikit333 irrational examples of islamophobia? christians assaulting islamists?
try actually spending time around muslims. i was tutoring evolution to some first year undergrads in the computer lab of the university, when the muslims in the next room got so offended by it (because they dont believe it) that they demanded that i stop, and then complained to the university.
i know a number of people who have been assaulted here in australia because they dared say something against islam.
TheVenomPhoenix 1 year ago
@maikit333 i am also yet to hear of the reverse. i do not know of one non-islamic person who has been assaulted. i am not saying it doesnt happen, i am saying that statistically, the reverse is much more common.
its got nothing to do with a different application of faiths.
i think a lot of this comes from people who are fed up. sure, there are extremists who think all muslims should die or whatever, but you cannot say that the reverse of this isnt true either.
TheVenomPhoenix 1 year ago
@TheVenomPhoenix
correction:
"i do not know of one non-islamic person who has been assaulted."
should be "i do not know of one muslim who has been assaulted by a non-islamic person."
TheVenomPhoenix 1 year ago
@maikit333 look at the number of muslims, even muslim leaders who profess profound hatred for everything western, who openly declare war on all non-muslims, and you will begin to see a reasoning.
when you have people killing innocents, or cheering when they do, in the name of any religion, you will have those not of that religion get fed up with it, especially when it is done to the extent that is in the muslim world.
TheVenomPhoenix 1 year ago
@maikit333 im not saying those who hate islam are right, but given what the majority of muslims in the world are trying to make islam what it has become, it is understandable that some people would reciprocate those feelings.
its less to do with bigotry and more to do with a conditioned response to the hatred shown by a lot of the muslims out there.
TheVenomPhoenix 1 year ago
constutitional right? sorry I can not speak english. your constitutional right dont run the world. nor does your fait. spell check fail for me!
fueldbybeans 1 year ago
It still bugs me that your analogy for reciprocation was wrong.
Would there be an issue in building a church in Oklahoma?
Your main point seems to be that you wont take someones opinion on board if that opinion is couched in a hypocrisy, which is perfectly fine, and I agree with it, but it seems sort of redundant in this case, or any case that involves religious people, the whole mindset of such people is hypocritical in general.
JohnSnowstorm 1 year ago
@JohnSnowstorm
"Would there be an issue in building a church in Oklahoma?"
McViegh didn't kill in the name of Christianity. A more apt, but still incorrect analogy would be "would there be an issue building a chruch near the building he bombed?"
Still, it is not comparable.
itachi705 3 months ago
Ok thunderfoot, you do not! have to exactly say your point to get it across. and thats exactly what your doing.
Jambi321 1 year ago
@Jambi321 Actually it's quite evident that he *did* have to highlight his comments since several of them fell victim to chronic misinterpretations.
MustardFright 1 year ago
When the prophet entered mecca, having taken the city, a pagan asked what will you do to us?
the prophet replied what do you think I will do?
cunningly the pagan replied, nothing you will spare us,
the prophet smiled and said O muslim people do not take the homes that were once yours, they are no longer, leave them (the pagans) alone.
And there since lived muslims and non muslims side by side.
Until intolerance changed it. Islam does not allow what happened in mecca.
Human stupidity does.
imvrysmrt 1 year ago
What if Jerusalem was a no go area for non-Jews(christians and muslins)? That would be some big shit especially for the muslins..
Cooyah88 1 year ago
People worry me...stupidity is a fascinating thing to watch :)
DeanKind 1 year ago
I think Thunderf00t is right.
dillinjabreakz 1 year ago
Thunderfoot, this is why I love you. You are incredibly logical, as well as incredibly fair. Keep it up.
ocdfreak 1 year ago
You are basically calling them out on their hypocricy.
ExploringReal 1 year ago
Nice video.
Would it be equally acceptable to not allow churches within 1000 miles of a school?I know they have a right to practice their religion, but Im just wondering because I fear for my children. You always hear stories about how they cover up and hide all the abuses of thier petite parishioners.
If we cant be tolerant of the intolerant.. how does your opinion hold any weight? Its based on the assumption that all Muslims should be judged for the actions of a few and some words in a book.
Symbolc0729 1 year ago
Bravo. I had no objections to your first vid (because I actually listened to what was said rather than what I felt was said). I was wondering if maybe I was too easily swayed by a nice sounding voice when I read some of the comments.
MeanKno 1 year ago
Thunderfoot holds the ability to properly establish his statements in a truthful context; much like a lawyer would with a legal brief or statement. Many of the people you see responding to him are uneducated slobs. Note the employment of the word "many". Yet this will be mis-interpreted as all. I'm not sure how Thunderfoot pulls off these replies in such a cool manner, as it's fairly obvious that many people replying to him fly off the handle with no support or backbone in their rebuttals.
LordJeremiah 1 year ago 63
Thumbs up as usual! : )
winterstellar 1 year ago
You come up with excellent arguments.
basicallyimfamous 1 year ago
Question: Have you read leviticus? It states as ad things in it, however. Luckily we live in a developed country that does have an unfair government, the islam in New York should not be penalised for that and they certianly should not feel guilty for accepting an American 'thims up' saying "It's ok to have different eliefs, the land is yours, this is democracy!" Observation: Directly after saying 'not all' you show us a picture of around ox that says ALL MUSLIMS.
OrginalCookieMonster 1 year ago
Question: Have you read leviticus? It states as ad things in it, however. Luckily we live in a developed country that does have an unfair government, the islam in New York should not be penalised for that and they certianly should not feel guilty for accepting an American 'thims up' saying "It's ok to have different eliefs, the land is yours, this is democracy!"
OrginalCookieMonster 1 year ago
I'm convinced that mass opinion is not formed by logic or semantics, but by sheer momentum. Because people generally care what others think of their opinions, which is why they voice it in the first place, they find it's a great way to build and save face by jumping on the bandwagon of outraged disagreement. Thunderf00t's argument is as follows: If your religion in any way supports intolerance, then you cannot use tolerance as the basis for your argument when trying to gain acceptance. ...
PachucoDesigns 1 year ago
... Thunderf00t's strangth is not in political opinion. He's demonstrated this clearly, unfortunately. But the fact is that the argument is valid: You can have two belief structures. But as soon as their core beliefs are in conflict, you must choose one side or the other. You cannot proclaim "all unbelievers are unclean," and then turn around and plead for acceptance because everyone deserves mutual respect for their beliefs. It simply doesn't work. It's called hypocrisy.
PachucoDesigns 1 year ago
@PachucoDesigns
All religions default position except for maybe Buddahism is that our god dick is bigger then your gods and therefore your religion is false.
All religions are intolerant in the same way.
The only difference is in our system of govt did not allow people to infringe on anothers right to worship, because all religions are intolerant by nature.
That is why our system is set up not to let US interfere when a less powerful group wants to exercise their right to worship.
Symbolc0729 1 year ago
@Symbolc0729 And this matters? I'm not saying that they don't have the right to tolerance and acceptance. I'm saying that they don't have the right to preach that which they are unwilling to practice. If you are intolerant, then you cannot use the virtue of tolerance in your defense.
PachucoDesigns 1 year ago 33
@PachucoDesigns
True.
You are right of course. However the constitution doesnt say:"Freedom of religion unless your religion is intolerant". You also fail to understand that those religious edicts are enforced by governments that are afraid of losing their power once they lose the authority of God behind them.
Christianity as Islam did killed people who would not convert. They are equally intolerant.
The secular govt we have is only superior because we dont play favorites. Change that? No way.
Symbolc0729 1 year ago
@Symbolc0729 Like I said, I didn't say that they don't have the right to build the mosque. Nor did I say that they don't have the right to equal treatment. I say they don't have the right to use a virtue in their defense that they themselves do not practice.
I don't play favorites between Islam and Christianity. I'm an atheist. I find them both deplorable.
PachucoDesigns 1 year ago