The Hour Christopher Hitchens Part 1 of 2

[snookerjam]

RIP great human!!

[thehumanflute]

does anyone know the name of the song at the beginning?

[ThePeeterd]

alway,s nice to hear a different opinion.

way to go chris!!

[halflifeproductionz]

ATHEISM FTW!!!

[JuniorDExchangecore]

I thought about Obama being an atheist as well.

[eap8317]

This is why people in the world think americans are stupid!! Do your research before you try to pinpoint a city in a map!! Portsmouth is not in the middle of Great Britain, it is a coastal city in the south west of the country. The US should be thankful to have Hitchens living there trying to make sense in a country where religion & showbiz is replacing education.

[chebob2009]

@eap8317

I think it's a canadian show! I wouldn't say people think americans are stupid because of their crap geography. I think it's to be expected when you have such a big country and most of them have no reason to leave it.

The reason americans are portrayed as stupid is because they're possibly the only country in the world that will elect an absolute moron to high office.

[eap8317]

@chebob2009 the fact that people have no reason or desire to leave their country (even just for a holiday) doesn't mean they cannot be taught geography! An educated mass is more difficult to control than an uneducated one, so I suppose the american government is doing well their job by keeping the masses in ignorance!

[chebob2009]

@eap8317

Well of course you can be taught it. But people take things in much more through real-life experience. I learnt the majority of my history and geography in my 20s because I was genuinely interested in it. Most americans seem quite uninterested in the outside world.

However, it's definitely true that a certain portion of the US media sells their viewers opinions rather than facts.

[eap8317]

@chebob2009 As you said, the media has lots to do with this problem. You would not be interested in other cultures or places if the media is telling you since you were born that you live in the best country in the world and there is no need to go to Venice, Paris or Egypt when you can go to places like Las Vegas and get an "all in one" experience without leaving the conforts of your own language, hotels and food....very sad!

[bdf2718]

I think Hitchens is totally wrong in the political views he adopted after 9-11. I agree with him totally on his atheism.

But even if I thought he was totally wrong in his politics and his religious views, I would still admire his courage in undergoing torture and in calling it what it is. Somebody in the Bush administration did the same thing. A right-wing talk show host did it (and reversed his opinion and called it torture).

Those who deny it's torture should try it.

[shurednichso]

Agreed fully to your comment.

[felixq78]

@bdf2718 I agree, he's obviously very intelligent, yet he seems to have bought the cover story that 911 was engineered by Muslim fanatics. Is he, working for the shadow government ? Or is he a fool? Every day more evidence points to Mossad in collaboration with US shadow gov, yet he ignores it. ????It's got me!

[roac7777]

I think you have been eating too many magic mushrooms to think that Mossad or the US govt. had anything to do with the 9/11 atrocity. Dont forget the Pentagon was hit aswell.

You obviously love fictional conspiracy theories.

[LiBlub1]

@bdf2718 I like his politics until I heard about his views on the middle eastern war, that's the only thing I really 'Dislike'. I like his style though, always as obnoxious as always, I admire that.

Although I don't know if he's capitalist or socialist I think it's something relatively sane, after all he's a bright man.

[bdf2718]

@LiBlub1

He used to be very left wing. Then 9/11happened. Now he's right wing. He fell for the Bush/Cheney crap. Which was surprising because he's a very intelligent guy.

[pipsondemand]

hichens ='s living legend

[jackossie]

I think I agree with Hitchens Re: Obama's atheist/agnostic persuasion. In the blurb of The Audacity of Hope, he is described as both a Christian and a sceptic and flicking through the book just now I came across this interesting passage suggesting his familiarity with atheism growing up was not insignificant:

[jackossie]

"my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist...a phenomenon to be treated with suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well...although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist...When my mother remarried it was to an Indonesian man with an equally skeptical bent...religion never really took root in their [ his grandparents'] hearts.

Nice to see a President following Jefferson???

[Domzdream]

He he. Softy.

Just to drive the point home, they should have signed him a paper that the operation of torture would take no less than 10 seconds.

[basooome]

If Hitchens' kids were slaughtered in Iraq, I'd like to see him support the war. Since when has the Pakistani dictatorship been our noble ally? Coward.

[regelemihai]

Bullshit argument. Nobody sends "kids" to war. From what I know, a mandatory millitary draft hasn't been instituted in the United States since the Vietnam war. Or did I miss something?

It's just a dishonest tactic used by the left to try and paint the whole struggle as some kind of an internat conspiracy cooked-up by Bush.

Pathetic.

[basooome]

I said if his kids were actually slaughtered in Iraq...meaning if he had been living in Iraq, if he was an Iraqi...and his kids were either bombed or slaughtered, or raped then killed or tortured by occupation forces...or is Iraq to far from your little GPS that you can't imagine such a thing?

[regelemihai]

I can certainly can. However, you're just paroting the same old appeals to emotion other people on left are slurring.

Yes, kids have died unfortunately (slaughtered by their own people, BTW); but painting this utopian scenario that must've been followed according to you is naive. Not reprehensible, mind you-- just naive.

[basooome]

Oh okay, so if I say the holocaust or the Rwandan genocide was horrible I'll be parroting leftist emotion too, yeah? And since when has the absence of death by war and genocide been utopian? Your pathetic attempt to be 'pragmatic' falls far too short buddy...If China were to invade the U.S. tomorrow and slaughter your kids on their way to school I'll be first to appeal against it...I'm sure then you'll find yourself joining my "naive appeal to emotion."

[regelemihai]

You don't think that your rediculous analogy to China invading the U.S is a pathetic appeal to emotion? Really? Do you know what is an appeal to emotion to begin with?

Comapring the Holocaust with the liberation of Iraq is not an appeal to emotion?

Seriously dude, come out and say it. If you're just another YT leftist who's bent on rehashing the same old faux-liberalistic mantras, then our discussion has no scope.

If you're just a pawn of the leftist "think"-tank who has yet to be informed...

[regelemihai]

...with regard to the subject matter, then we can definitely engage in a civilized discussion.

Otherwise, your attempts at arguing against the U.S foreign policies are diluted.

[basooome]

Your reply merely reflects your failure to imagine it being done to you. The fact that you use the word 'liberation' to define a million dead Iraqis, 2 million internally displaced, another 2 externally, the entire ethnic cleansing of cities, villages and neighbourhoods, is indeed pathetic to put it lightly. If that makes me left wing, then I'd be proud of such a label. The Mccarthyite days are over, you can't just resort to the typical "you're a liberal" argument. Pathetic indeed.

Catch ya!

[regelemihai]

And the appeal to McCarthy...You are indeed a walking leftist cliche. And I'm not saying this to just bash you, it's simply true.

My reply reflects on the fact that I try to see the world as objectively as I can while all you can do is use slogans, hyperbole, and appeals to emotions. In lack of any substance I'm sure they serve you well.

"Millions dead" just further goes to show how severely brainwashed and dishonest you are. The Iraqi Body Count doesn't exceed 200,000. Nice try though.

[regelemihai]

And you also talk about genocide. Funny, do you think that the casualties are due to the vindictive nature of the coalition forces, or maybe...just maybe...it's due to the ever loving peaceful muslims killing their own civilians? Too big of a streth I pressume.

What about the masses of Kurdish civilians we liberated from a regime who indeed enacted genocide on them?

Or maybe they don't count in your twisted world view as one of those people whose "cities were cleansed?"

More double standards

[basooome]

I said a million..in no stretch of the english language is a million, millions...that is my first point. I got my sources from the Lancet and John Hopkins report which gave these figures. They used the same methodology as was used in the Balkans. And guess what? They were officially assigned to gather the data in the Balkans, not by the UN...but you guessed it...the U.S. You gonna say they are lefty now? Now you can trust the Bush administration or you can trust them, I'm going for the latter.

[regelemihai]

Lancet? I dunno much about it, but what I do know is that it's a medical association, or a medical journal of some sort.

I'm going by what the Iraq Body Count reports--and the numbers are nowhere near that many. Not to mention that insurgency is the major cause of the deaths. There is a little thing called "sectarian violence" between the Shia and Suni groups. And both of them target their own countrymen with no restraint. Funny thing is that THAT sort of barbarism never gets the rougher...

[regelemihai]

...treatment from the left. Not a peep.

Swell! ;-)

[basooome]

and as for the 200,000...as if that makes it better...since when has 200,000 deaths been justified? What came out of nuremberg is that the use of foreign aggression became the ultimate war crime in international law...it also stated that anything that comes after it is a product of the initial aggression...so I'm gonna refer to Nuremberg convention. Is that left-wing jargon too? Your pathetic use of the sound bite "appeal to emotion' is out dated...I am merely referring to facts.

Enjoy :)

[regelemihai]

No, it's just an observational fact. Coin it "outdated" if it makes you feel good, but it doesn't change the fallaciousness of your argumentation.

Comparing the genocide committed against the Jews with the invasion of Iraq is not only a near sighted observation, an insult to the victims of the Holocaust( my family survived the Holocaust),and an exercise in facile scattershot argumentation,but an insult to your intellect (or lack thereof).

Like I said;I'm prepared to discuss the matter.what...

[regelemihai]

...I won't stand for is the same old BORING regurgitation of the mantras I've been hearing for the past five years. Not only because it's unfair and moronic, but alos because as of late, it has become tiresome and simply boring. It garners no debate. It's used by intellectually lightweight and morally bankrupt "peace proponents" who are interested in yelling and condemning, but not in voicing dissent in a normal fashion like ordinary human beings do.

[basooome]

If your parents were survivors of the holocaust all the more need for you to cherish the nuremberg conventions. All you have been repeating is slander of me while I have provided references to international law and medical studies...I guess I'm a pink-lefty caught up in a fairy land and you are the strong minded realist, so strong in fact that even the deaths of 200,000 Iraqis killed as a direct product of the occupation don't matter to you, whether those deaths came directly through

[regelemihai]

Of course they matter to me! The only difference is that I'm not using those deaths as some kind of political ploy. If anything I'M the realist between us.

Yes, hundereds of thousands of Iraqis have died.You can't seem to grasp this notion because you do see the world as a utopian dreamland.

The only think I abhor in you guys is the fact that you refuse to see the bigger picture,and even when you do, you'd rather resort to double standards and dishonest smear tactics.

C'est tout. I'm all...

[regelemihai]

...for dissent. Disagreement and dialogue is healthy. But when you start spouting off propagandistic mantras you hear crazy protestors(I've tried to engage in a normal discussion with some only to be spit on and cursed at) usually say.

That's not helping anyone. Exaggerations and mud slinggings are easy; and moron can do it.

That is my only beef with you.

[basooome]

If abiding by international law and geneva conventions against torture and genocide, and nuremberg conventions is left wing...then I am left wing. I've made my point. Don't reply directly to me, I've figured by now the only point you'll put forward is that I am left wing.

Enjoy.

[basooome]

the forces of occupation or the upheavals and splinter groups it created.

Take care dude...leave me out of your replies that provide no substance beyond trying to define who I am, rather than what the issue is. Enjoy

[regelemihai]

I never focused strictly on you. I merely tackeled the tactics you used that I often see are also used by other people I know.

All I'm asking for is fair-mindedness.

Is taht too much to ask, or do you prefer flinging slogans around?

[basooome]

I am the one that has provided all the evidence and references in our arguments...I have merely addressed the issue and never put you in a political category, unlike you, who has mentioned "left-wing" in every single post as the only point you put forward. It isn't realism when you see the deaths of 200,000 people as something to get over. As galloway said of Hitchens "you are willing to fight until the last drop of other peoples' blood!"

[regelemihai]

Gallaway is surely the one to talk. He "cires" over the deaths of civilians, all the while hanging out with blood thirsty dictators, praising Saddam Hussein and lauding the suicide bombers who do all of those killings he allegedly bemoans.

Please...

I have addressed these points too,so stop making it sound as if I left it untouched.I mention the Iraq Body Count several times now.

Again;I see those deaths as they are.You choose to use them as a political ploy.

I know who I'd rather be

[ElectricSexPants]

I must say Hitchens makes alcoholism look dangerously alluring.

[camarocico]

"I could almost have spat on the Chief Justice". Very funny!

[illwrath]

Stroumboulopoulos... That's a mouthful

[robchaplain]

I was not aware that Christopher had such a unique relationship with the Barak Obama and that they were so intimate with each other on issues such as waterboarding. Hmmmmmm... Waterboard discussion gets a bit merky here regarding, culpable soldiers and then "lawyers". Where do the (at that time) Sec. of state and president figure in the waterboarding equation, as far as Christopher is concerned? The plot thickens...

[KajiCarson]

And Enigma is not white noise. =(

[KajiCarson]

Hitchen's new book? "God is not Great" is over two years old!

[theripper715]

but not in paperback

[KajiCarson]

Still, he should have called it "the new edition" or whutever.

[punktum8]

he is the most facinating speaker of the fantastic 4 :)

[yamuboy]

Hitch is also more appealing to people who find Dawkins and Dennett to be a bit bland and "too scientific", if there's such a thing...He's the lay-persons atheist and his take on the issue is definitely valuable.

[punktum8]

I like his talk about history and contempory politic

[bollockowithalob]

Yes, Hitch is a great man.

The best essayist since George Orwell, huh.

[anthonzi]

Hitchens... the least intelligent of the 4 horsemen, but still does a good job ;)

[horace7945]

questionable.... the least nerdy, and most articulate, to be sure.

[GodKillerAtheist]

I think you are wrong as hell ...sorry bub =D

[KajiCarson]

Who would you regard as the most intelligent?

[krdwa]

From what I have heard and read of them, my impression is something like: Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, Harris. The big difference, however, is between the two 'D's and the two 'H's. Within each of these groups, the order could perhaps be reversed, but I don't think Harris and Hitchens are in quite the same class as Dawkins and Dennett.

[yamuboy]

Well, to use a worn out cliche, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Dawkins and Dennett give their arguments a strong scientific basis while hitch and harris approach the issue historically, culturally and ethically. Hitch's take on the subject is valuable as he draws from his experience reporting from areas that have been destroyed by religious conflict and his frequent battles with political and social commentators who call themselves religious(D'Souza, Prager etc).

[krdwa]

They are all quite intelligent, but I think it takes more intelligence to succeed in a scientific argument than in a rhetorical one. I admit that I study in the sciences, so my perspective is not neutral.

[ThePublicPolemic]

Hitchens, to me, is the most intelligent. I can not even think of a person smarter than him, except perhaps Dawkins.

[dmc9021]

Yea he's pretty badass

[hitchwatch]

How about Noam Chomsky?

[hitchwatch]

Freeman Dyson?

[lucidatheist]

Thanks for posting!

[Leeroy002]

Silly christians , Reality is for Atheists...