Added: 2 years ago
From: RowanFortuneWood
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  • well if they saw my file they may understand better

    ewo act illegal

    telling people his a child protection officer when all he is, is a truant officer visiting a registered h.e child,

    also tricking people into believing a welfare cocern has been made in the past when it hasnt and asknig them to also do the same,

    even tries to hide this and the intimidation to my child bringing police that were not needed in law or for any other reason but to intimidate my child, whom my child looked up to.

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  • Very well said young man....

  • @eastcowestrev

    y do you say this

  • this david chaytor is just the tip of the iceberg. Imo he is just a lowly serf being a sacrificial pawn to take the heat off the top boys who are massively dodgy.

    I said a year or more ago that someone will be made an example of and he'll be a nobody. The government don't fool me with their crafty little efforts

    £18.5 k ? a pathetically low amount to worry about in terms of how much they all really skim

  • (continued) ...

    being assessed by the state authorities (unless you would suggest that, in which case, I disagree, but I apologise for misunderstanding you).

  • Thank you for you civil response. I must disagree with your claim that 'home educators are providing this service in lieu of the state'. Traditionally parents have been responsible to educate their children and may do so by using a school's services, that is to say delegating their duty. Schools are assessed, therefore, to inform parental choice. Section 7 of the 1996 education act is the relevant legislation. However, all this will likely change soon, a fact I find disturbing and immoral.

  • (continued) ...

    Therefore, it could be argued that, as the home-based teachers of children taught outside the state-provided framework are 'filling in' for the state in its duty to educate those children, such teachers may be required to prove that they are providing a suitable service. No-one would suggest that a comprehensive state school (just as an example) should be able to operate without

    ... (continued)

  • "such teachers may be required to prove that they are providing a suitable service."

    Even if we accept your notion that home educators are filling in for the state. this argument is a non sequitur.

  • Not at all: I argue that state education (i.e. schools) must prove that it is providing a suitable service. If home-based teachers are filling in for the state, it stands to reason that they must pass the same tests as the state institutions.

  • It is a non sequitur as we are not talking about educational standards, but about legitimate use of violence/ law. It doesn't follow that home educators are filling in for the state, that the state has a legitimate right to use the coercive power of the law against them.

  • You say that "we are not talking about educational standards". From the quotation read out in the video, David Chaytor asked, "Why are you so reluctant to demonstrate the quality of what you do?" That seems to be to suggest that the discussion is indeed about educational standards provided by home-based teachers.

  • David Chaytor's question was his attempt to justify the states coercion against home educators, it is the not the core question of the debate, only an argument put forward in the debate.

  • Both seem very relevant, but if "argument[s] put forward in the debate" are not valid, then presumably the point of this is not to have a debate, but for people who agree with the sentiments expressed in the video simply to say that they agree. The only reason I commented on this in the first place was because, unlike many YouTube videos, it struck me that this was genuinely open to debate. My apologies that I have dared to question anything that has been said. Who is totalitarian now?

  • LB it is clear who is the totalitarian here, it is you and Mr. David Chaytor. Reading the long list of your comments, it's quite obvious what you are here for.

  • Because LB we do not have to demonstrate to either Mr Chaytor or you the 'quality' of what we do. We have the freedom of our values and conscious and beliefs. We are not a state imposed system, we are parents freely choosing to home educate our children and refuse to be bullied, monitored or demonsied by this government..

  • LB: Whether or not the state is 'proving' to provide a suitable education, it is not your duty to impose coercion on parents to pass your tests. You do not own us or our children and therefore you have no right to remove our freedoms or to harass us or impose on us your monitoring schemes, through the erosion of our civil and human rights.

  • No it can't be argued because parents do not have to answer to the state as to how to educate & raise their children, nor should they be categorized as paid teachers in schools because children are living with parents and if parents decide to educate their children through their responsibilities then the state has no right to intervene in what is not their business.

  • There we are. All my comments removed. If I'm not allowed to engage in any kind of debate at all, I'll be on my way. I notice that the poster of the video hasn't replied to any of my comments, unlike for all the people who flat agreed with him. I thought that this was a forum for a serious discussion, not the self-congratulatory, slightly hysterical shouting match that it is.

  • Actually, on second thoughts, I'm going to leave my comments. Then casual readers can judge for themselves.

  • I did not respond because I was away from the internet. This is an emotionally charged issue because we are, in my view and in the view of many others', discussing lives being ruined by state interference.

  • @LordBingham "...unlike for all the people who flat agreed with him. I thought that this was a forum for a serious discussion, not the self-congratulatory, slightly hysterical shouting match that it is."

    This is not only condescending, but also intimidating & insulting.

  • @LordBingham I think you have missed your own argument. The person who opened this debate was you, so please have the courage to accept the responses to your comments. It seems that you think only you have the right to voice only your opinions and not others, because you aren't open to tolerate anyone else's perception of that which does not not agree with you, without immaturely, attempting to digress.

  • The bit about innocent until proven guilty - you're arguably wrong here. Education of minors is provided by the state, and home educators are providing this service in lieu of the state. Whilst there is no doubt that private individuals can do as they wish so long as they do not break the law, and they are innocent of a crime until proven guilty, the same is not true of the state. The state cannot carry out any act unless that act is permitted by law. ... (continued)

  • That was brilliant!

    Thanks

  • Thank you :)

  • Great stuff. You make your point in the best way possible. The final quip came across as almost sinister.

  • I hoped it would. Thanks :)

  • I love this Rowan, I've posted it on my facebook page as well.... Keep up the good work..

  • Thank-you :)

  • home educators? This term is new to me. Sorry for sounding very ignorant.

  • Not at all. It is a predominantly British term (although I might be wrong) for what many Americans call homeschooling. A lot of people reject the notion of schooling as a philosophy of education (see unschooling) and therefore do not like the American term - that is also my view, although it is not something I am pedantic about. In general a home-educator is the same as a homeschooler. Personally I actually prefer the term home-based-leaner, but what it has in accuracy it lacks in concision.

  • This is brilliant Rowan. Well said! I hope you're sending it, or a transcript of it, to the Select Committee.

    It's cheered everyone up in our house no end.

  • I think I will, thanks for the suggestion and for commenting :)

  • I get absolutely sick of the "if you've nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" argument. That old chestnut gets rolled out too often!

    Your video was brilliant. A beautiful and well thought out example that even a politician ought to be able to understand, and a pleasing touch of sarcasm to your eloquent rant. I'm still chuckling about it. Well done Rowan. 5*

  • Those kind of rationalising political clichés are indeed annoying; as well as "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" my other favourites include the conservative "love it or leave it" and, of course, the good old "if you dont support X, then you are a commie, anarchist, hippy, fascist, Satan worshiper, criminal, [insert boogieman], etc."

    I am glad you liked the video, thanks for commenting.

  • Thanks, Rowan :-)

  • You're very welcome :)

  • Thank you Rowan. This is the kind of approach that may make the kind of accusations posed about home schoolers clearer. I've seen some vid's done in the format of the Mac vs the PC commercials, and wonder if a bombardment of video's in that style using a stand in for Chaytor, and a little girl making him look rediculous are in order. I know it sounds juvenile, but sometimes you have to speak down to their level. ;) Nice work.

  • That would be fun and it would likely popularize the message, although given the situation I wonder if any of it will make a difference.

    Thanks for the comment Richard, I am really pleased with the feedback on this video :)

  • oh please please please send it to badman pleaaase xx

  • I was thinking about sending it to David Chaytor, although Badman could certainly benefit from it too.

    Thanks for commenting :)

  • brilliant Rowan absolutly brilliant! well done! love the end quote!

    5 out of 5 :D

  • Thanks :)

  • I wish they didn't give political tools to people who are tools themselves.

    Non sequitur reasoning & a flair for the dramatic: perhaps he is aiming to be taking seriously by people who are ignorant of the issue of homeschooling.

    "...locking the door against the world outside". Seems to like poisoning the well, in addition to defrauding the state.

    Figures that he has ulterior motives in addition to utterly mediocre intellect: he's chairman of Comprehensive Future.

  • Chaytor is a shining example of academic dementia; of people being given positions in parliament due to perceived talent in a particular portfolio.

    I've only utter disdain for such men. The Comp. Future website proudly proclaims "an equal chance for all children". This is an out-and-out lie. Sounds nice to say things like that, but no matter if you change the law, "good" students will want to go to "good" schools, be they private or otherwise.

  • Not only this, but it will not give an equal chance to all children. They are explicitly trying to stifle the homeschooling option to the point of being impractical to implement. Better to do that, than to prohibit the practice altogether...

    One school system, one mind, one way of learning, one form of formal assessment, one path from primary to secondary to tertiary...it would make for a glorious assembly line, making sure every trade and skill quota is filled...and kill educational choice.

  • Your analysis is excellent; it would be great if you could do a video on this subject at some point. I concur; Chaytor is using rhetoric that cleverly plays on peoples ignorance, sneaking in prejudice and assumptions while faking objectivity and mocking bewilderment. Until your comment I had no idea how far his bias went, thank you for that and for sharing your perspective that is, as usual, informed and considered.

  • Hul-lew Rowan,

    I apologize for not commenting more; some of your videos concern subjects that, frankly, I've scant knowledge (though I do hold great interest in them).

    Maybe I'll do a quick video about home schooling & my opinions of it, but first...there's one I want to get done by the end of this week. I'm going to really try and get it done (it's been far too long).

    Peace Rowan (btw, you want an 'interesting' music rec? Check this out: watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc)

  • I look forward to this video in the coming week (be sure to PM it to me when its uploaded). And thank you for that YT link, definitely interesting - kind of Boards of Canadaesque.

  • Yes, Chaytor & Badman are also trying to instill fear and doubt by attacking our freedoms.

  • This is so far beyond brilliant. Extremely clear and well explained to the point where anyone without the most extreme mental defects can understand it. If Project Lifesize didn't get hacked I'd probably have featured this.

  • Thanks Orygyn :)

  • I haven't any experience of, and never thought about home-education; that's why I have not commented on your videos. I've watched and rated them though, and here I want to say that you present a very clever argument against the argument of this person - David Chaytor.

  • Thank you. I think one of the great things about owning a YouTube channel is that you get to share unusual experiences and points of view. This has happened a lot, for example, with the atheist community. Without such tools small social groups must be defined by the mainstream broadcasting media, which are woefully inadequate and more often than not reaffirm the prejudice of the masses.

  • Indeed, a fact our representatives seem merrily aware. Thanks for commenting.

  • I would have to think more about it before declaring this my favorite video of yours, but it's up there.

  • Thank-you, I made this mostly to vent, but it seems to have worked out quite well.

  • Beautiful

  • Thanks :)

  • You are a shining example of home education!

    My youngest is a science nerd. He studies at the university level and it appears that he is being punished for it in highschool. He's so frustrated. He's in his last year, so we will just have to bear with an antiquated system that discourages individualism.

    Ack! It won't be until he does post graduate research that he will be able to fully enjoy his love of science.

    There has got to be a better way!!!

    Sorry for ranting on your video...

  • Thank-you. There is no need to apologise; plenty to rant about. The philosopher Max Stirner foresaw this trend in an 1842 essay 'The False Principle of our Education'. He outlined an educational philosophy called Personalism, emphasising self-understanding and individuality. Today states often rhetorically embrace such ideas, but in reality treat people as a collective, knowledge as an end (rather than as a means to the pupils' ends) and pupils like factory products. We all deserve better.

  • Just read Stirner - thank you! His essay is just as relevant today as when he wrote it in 1842, possibly even more so!!! You and he have expressed exactly what my son is dealing with. That he has to sit and mind, regurgitating the simple knowledge and their interpretations of that knowledge is sucking the soul right out of him. That he wants to go beyond what is required, test and express it in different ways not part of the curriculum is being met with resistance and refusal. Shite!

  • If his curiosity can survive this last year of high school and 4 years of university - he will then be able to do what he is driven to. Sheesh, and then he will be one the merry-go-round for research grants. Soul sucking.

  • To add, in the 'old days' it would have been possible to just build him a lab in the garage like my father had. He blew it up one day with his experiments. Back then his father, though angry at the cost, was proud of his achievement. Today he would be considered dangerous and taken away by the state.

  • I had a similar reaction when I read the essay; I would go so far as to say that this (and not the popular 'The Ego and Its Own') is Stirner's magnum opus. He acutely understands the problematic nature of the dominant educational philosophies that have unfortunately prospered since his time. I am considering uploading a reading of this great work on my channel.

    I hope your son and so many like him can continue to develop as autonomous individuals and lead the fulfilled lives they deserve.

  • Stop considering it and please, please do it Rowan! It is a brilliant piece deserving of as wide an audience as it can get! Take you time and when/if you do post it, I will feature it on my channel. LOL Not that it will do much for you! ;-) I keep a very low profile here on YouTube.

    Thank you again for bringing it to my attention.

  • You're very welcome :)

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