#67 Resonant Water Fuel Cell - 03

[Farlande4]

Commendations on an excellent series of videos. As a chemist I believe the effect you were experiencing with the increasing resistance over time is indeed due to a charging effect. In a capacitor, the medium must be 'dielectric' meaning that it polarizes when charged - all the molecules line up a certain way. This actually impedes the flow of electrons, but the artificially aligned molecules are now storing 'potential' energy. Dielectric breakdown occurs when the cap pops or the wfc produces

[maciejwrotek]

Ok so what is the resonance frequency of water ?

[IsItTrue99]

do you have the plates interacting on both sides? this could cause some strange reading?

[irondmax]

as i read these comments on this video........

i say thanks zerro.......

to many of the others...post a video of how smart you are!

to those who have posted your videos..thanks.

my comment is this...

you have resistance, capacitance, inductance.

capacitors are made from 2 electrodes with an insulator in between.

resistance is from the insulating effect of the water, and the stainless steel itself is a shunt resistor.

inductance comes from flux field of the current.

voltage flux........

[irondmax]

@irondmax voltage flux flows on the outside of the stainless steel. then we also have the cell with electrolite....... then it wants to behave like a battery..... then we have magnetics....... so many things going on....... everyones input is needed..... dumb... comments are just that..... even if you have perfectly pure distilled water.......add some sunlight........now god himself just gave you something in that water....... so many things.... thanks again Zero.......

[steblizz]

That water is not pure even if that's written on it, try to by water that conducts electricity at max 0.2 uS/cm which is still not pure.

From Lenntech:

"Ultrapure water conductivity is about 0,054 uS/cm at 25oC, also expressed as resistivity of 18,3 MOhm."

[FireDropTechnologies]

Pressurized Water fuel cell ,super conductive solution with high intencity Static charge aplyed thrue use of krypton Gas contained under pressure in ceramic tubes seperated by pollerity, Powerd by Vander graff generator, sending statick charge thrue poller isolation diodes,then fed in phrequancy isolated discharge to a tesla coil,then to the krypton filled tubes, as krypton gas is the only non oxidizing knoble gas. And electicly conductive under pressure. A scruber to remove krypton needed.

[jallaguri]

The ohm meter is applying voltage to the plates in order to actually measure the current. The current is then converted in the meter to read ohms. This applied voltage is trigging the HHO production. As soon the production starts, the current is flowing and the meter will measure ohms. Depending on which meter you use the readings will differ so don't rely on your ohm readings.

[beforebefore]

Sorry for not reading all previous comments.. but quick thoughts (I watched your previous video on same subject). Even at low currents (uA), you are likely initiating electrolysis, because your plates are in intimate contact with the water. Experiment with this... insulate the plates from the water, then submerge them. If you can make similar coiled plates after coating them with Kapton tape (ebay), then you will have a far more stable condition - independent of the water conductivity condition

[Nopiw]

@beforebefore insulating the plates will change (higher) the capacity

The reading would be wrong again.

[aardvarkinmud]

I think what you are seeing is this:

When you connect the meter to this setup, you are in essence beginning to electrolyze the water, just at a very small rate. This is because you are supplying a small amount of charge from the meter battery. The process ionizes the water on a gradual scale and what you see on the meter is the result. Pretty sure about this.

[rtan188]

I want to update you with what i have found.

zero, i replicated this cell. capacitance = 8uF.

connect it to variable inductor + toroidal step up coil.

there is no resonance.

if there is a resonance, it is the resonance of the step up coil. there is a certain frequency at which the voltage out from secondary coil is the highest. but apart from that, there is no particular frequency that would disassociate the water molecule.

[QuarkToo]

Meyer stated he was doing the exact opposite of faraday's electrolysis. Get a clue.

Meyer combined onone (O3) with steam (H2O) to for H2O2 which is hydrogen peroxide or rocket fuel.

H2O2 has a different viscosity than water and fractures under the right conditions. This is why Tesla in his ozone generator stated it could be used to produce free energy. Tesla, Meyer, Pyharich are all the same. You one the other hand are a moron.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

This from a 6 month YouTube member who has still posted absolutely nothing of his own demonstrating that he has it all figured out.

You have worn out your welcome. Have a nice life asshole.

[pinemontgo]

Well lets see you just figured out water can store a charge ?.. wow Zero is a hero... wtf ? I shifted polarity back and forth two years ago.. sent you the video ! You never finish anything- always beg for "donations " bfd.! And before you say it- I have done a hell of alot mor than you .. Go make a serial bus .Or copy a motor cvontrol and tell the uneducated how original you are ,... Zero WHO ?

[searcherofdatruth]

@QuarkToo

why is everyone so angry on youtube or on the net in general

we are all so brave sitting behind a desk in front of a computer screen.

you may be right about meyer and tesla and even this guy zerofossilfuel but your attitude sux

[rtan188]

zero, have u tried measuring the capacitance with a capacitance meter?

[desertbard]

As the temperature of the water varies the resonance frequency will vary. How do you propose following it?

[danratsnapnames]

yo, Zero', want to have some real fun, connect a capacitor analyzer to that thing so you can see the real push/pull and leakage.  AND GET AN OSSILISCOPE!

[prototype9000]

usually circuits are resonant due to the capacitor and the dialectric but with water the resonance changed with the volume of water and temperature water is a tricky thing i suppose

[maxrisc]

When you change scale you are putting more power/ less power into the capacitor.  You can't really measure a capacitor in ohms.

[audiegates]

bluebeaverbeer calls it, "conditioning the cell" i.e. getting the molecules in the cell flowing the same direction.. do you agree?

[BigFireDave]

Who cares what you call it! Milk from a cow taste just as good if you call it a beauvine (SP?).

[BigFireDave]

Z, I am only a tech license at this time, but i have seen a meter respond the way yours did. With a big slow capacitor it seems to me that after you reached max and switched to a higher scale the switch actually gave the cell a voltage, then dropped to zero, then applied voltage again. The rise and then drop and then started raiseing again was a voltage "bounce" by the capacitor that comes with a "pulse" situation. Pulsing a rectified voltage to a capacitor causes "surges". Maybe that registered

[harveyeaston]

i am looking for another tapp'd inductor, (monster one, about 2 henry), and targeting a 1 cycle every 2 seconds center frequency. At the current rate of 2hz, it seems that much energy is being used to hold bubbles in place against the plates...

[harveyeaston]

on further research, i find that waters dialectric constant to vary with tempature; as high as 88 at near freezing, and as low as 30 near boiling.

[harveyeaston]

Equation:

C= K*Eo*A/D, where Eo= 8.854x10-12

where:

K is the dielectric constant of the material,

A is the overlapping surface area of the plates,

d is the distance between the plates, and

C is capacitance

in the data sheet, it lists waters dialectric constant as 40. Should be fairly easy to figure out. (My unit is operateing at approx 2 cycles a second, very slow oscilltion.

[cribcat1]

With tap water and baking soda I can light an LED for five minutes after a "charge". It acts like a high resistance battery or a cap. I don't know if it's the dissimilar metals in an electrolyte or what.

[astrolplain]

I am old school, HAM radio etc.

Dont know how to contact with an idea, so here it is. Use the capacitive reactence of the cell as part of the circuit. Let that determine the frequency of EMF to dislodge the atoms.?

Steve

[QuarkToo]

OU electrolysis has nothing to do with Faraday's DC electrolysis or even frequency per se, it has to do with acceleration.

In order to get the acceleration, the magnetics have to be built and switched properly and nobody has demonstrated that publicly yet. In order for the magnetics to work properly, the circuit has to be resonant.

Zerofossilefues and most others are completely clueless as to how Meyer and Puharich achieved OU "HYDROGEN FRACTURING" - NOT ELECTROLYSIS.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Show us yours.

[rtan188]

wow you're smart. u must be going to MIT or something.

jackass.

[gittarpikk]

Maybe some airborn emf interacting with the resonance of the coil

[RyuDarragh]

Electronic voltmeters usually use 2.00V for their resistance measurement system. Some use 3.00V or 4.00V. You have a decent capacitor there. An "electrolyte" does not mean a good conductor. It means a substance that has many free ions, but *high* DC resistance (leakage). Distilled water *is* an electrolyte with dipole molecules. The difference is that the *series* resistance of the cell will be very high. A 1F capacitor with milliohms would be dangerous. 1F with 10K resistance would be.. weak.

[danratsnapnames]

hELLS YEA.. someone who knows what a capacitor is!

listen to this guy zero, he's got the idea.

tesla showed how to use capacitors.

toss a matched secondary capacitor to the thing, and let them act as a doubler. one cell will produce like 2 and so on. myers used the charge/discharge capacitance of a alternator in order to match it to the cell.. this is why you need to balance the cell with a secondary to make one feed the other.

[GBS1043]

OH,OH, stop n shop?? You must be in PARMA!

And that Chineese Tektronix VOM !! WOW

[Gruntol5]

While measuring the resistance of your cell you are applying a voltage (probably 1.5v), of course. 1.5v is just capable of dissociating water to H2 & O2. The gases will coat the surface of your electrodes thus increasing the resistance of your cell, until the surface is saturated. The gases are not visible to the eye.

[Gruntol5]

We had a brand new A/C system installed last year. Even so the condensate always has a smell - would never drink it! You have to bear in mind that the condensate will include some organic volatiles from the human body, plasticizer vapor, cooking smells, etc, plus dissolved metal from copper cooling coils. Even trace amounts will increase the conductivity of the "distillate." Once exposed to the atmosphere carbon dioxide will be dissolved, which ionizes (very weakly) to give H+ & CO3 2- ions.

[valveman12]

Ok you are using words like resonance, negative resistance incorrectly. The reasone the cell keeps climbing in resistance is that it is essentially a capacitor. It will climb because the cell is still charging from the voltage of your ohm meter. Resonance ocurs when reactances cancel each other out and all you are left with is a purely resistive component.

[smokyatgroups]

Zero the meter tries to push a constant current (but known)thru the resistor under test. It then measures the voltage & displays the result in ohms. If the current charged into a cell initially exceeds the meters internal current source it will push current back thru the meter giving a negative value. As the cell discharges the internal meter current will rise to a positive value again.

[rpierini]

According to D6.pdf even the Meyer model was difficult to tune and maintain. And I agree with syncromon, this is quite similar to Hasebe's cell- ZFF, why don't you study his work, add the magnets, tune with a PWM, and see what you get?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I have the patent already. It intrigues me, to say the least. The polarity of the permanent magnets is not exactly clear, though.

[rpierini]

Definitely. I'm trying to find a good custom manufacturer for those as well as for the ferrite inductors listed in D14.

[supersilve]

Hi keep up your good work and like to see that cap resonating.

from 9h1hv

[crazzieg]

I knew I've hrard that voice. Same here!

[sabriath]

Furthermore:

f=1/(2n (LC)^.5)

f is frequency of resonance in an LC circuit

n is pi (only because it is closest looking to the symbol)

L is inductance

C is capacitance

My suggestion is power -> pulse transistor circuit (one-sided) -> tuning coil for inductance -> experiment capacitor. You can measure output versus input as you "dial" the inductance coil, when found, simply measure the inductance and voila!

:D

Just trying to help

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Advanced class amateur radio license holder for almost 30 years. This is old hat for me but good info for the others.

The plate surface area takes into account both sides of each spiral plate minus on half turn on one side, 75"^2 per plate.

[sabriath]

C ~ eA/d

Which is (C) capacitance is (~) roughly equal to (e) permittivity of the dialectric multiplied by the (A) area of the surface facing the opposing side divided by the (d) distance between the plates. You have a coiled capacitor which has a huge surface area double-sided even.

For the drop in energy and then a raise, there is a voltage that leaks back into the unit and in the water before the unit has time to push the charge back up.

[viking1au]

Must be the leads, and the meter itself.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Leads? No. Meter? I thought maybe. Tried a different meter and got similar results. Next step is to put a steady current into the cell and observe the rise time on the scope.

And even despite the appearance of high capacitance, I still can't shake this feeling that it might pay off to pulse at the resonance point of the tank circuit with the theoretical capacitance. The dielectric value of 80 for h2o had to come from somewhere.

[waynedavisband]

you should use stainless leads down in the water the copper aligator clips could be giving a false reading in the water with the stainless just like a potato clock makes electricity with 2 dif kinds of metals ?? just a thought

[jonrebecca111]

could someone reference a past video or so to educate me on "tuning the frequency to the coil" zero, Is your site down,,,would like to help w/ donation. your very thorough in your findings.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

There is no past video to reference regarding resonance as this is the direction I am heading in, not where I've been.

[SmartScarecrow]

pretty darn hard to hit a moving target ... but I suspect that once you actually hit that bad boy with some juice, it will be dancing, jumping, dodging and using every freaking evasive manuver in the star fleet manual ... so I would bet your target is sitting about as still right now as you will ever see it ...

[popeye11068]

Zero , what kind of reading do you get when you put a +/- 6K resistor on your capacitor

measuring input of your meter?

[popeye11068]

Maybe there's (minimal) bubble formation on the plates creating greater resistance?

[crazzieg]

Another funny effect is it also works kinda like a diode too. Hook it up like a single diode half wave and look at it with your scope it puts out a DC componet. What's that about?

[rpierini]

Maybe construct a circuit to measure, and then alter the input frequency continuously to keep them in tune?

[syncromon]

Great work Zero! This cell is similar to Shigeta Hasebes patented spiral DC electrolyser, perhaps you could research his experiments to compare notes.

[m3sca1]

its also the same as designed by crob227 and built me in an open source project for cell design.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

With all due respect to you and crob227, the inspiration for this cell was taken directly from the foil wrap design of electrolytic caps. Don't get bent out of shape if I decide to name it something else.

Mine is likewise open source. Build it, sell it, just get it into the hands of people so they can play with it.

[m3sca1]

nothin bent-its open source=] just pointing others with like interests,to similar builds for the sake of expansion of knowledge.

like i would do for your build,anyone asks about mine i point them to yours also.

we all share,we all learn.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

No prob then bro.

[m3sca1]

No probs at all.

check my latest-flame and arc!

;]

[crob227]

no one is bent, its just if everyone names the design something differnt, then the learning benifits of this particular cell will decrease, just think if 5 people call it 5 different names and all 5 people figure something out differnt about it. no one will benifit. im not bent,just think its a little shady.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Personally, I think it should be referred to as the electrolytic cell. In fact, that is what I'm going to call it going forward.

[crob227]

well thats a big slap in the face i got some different stuff going on any ways, so call it what you want, i got more ideas you can rename if you like, but its not helping 3.50 a gallon, if everyone is confused.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

The very fact that you are so protective, taking offense to anyone calling anything even remotely resembling your own work anything other than what you've already named it, specifically incorporating the name crob, is all the evidence we need that you are trying to safeguard the feather that only you imagine you have in your cap from blowing away.

I wish you luck in your experiments. I really do. But hop down from your pedestal. That too is imaginary.

[crob227]

Thats twice you insulted me, and i never named

the cell, it was an open sorce, and was named, the end, i thought to stop confusion, the name would stick, but if tyou dont care i dont care. dont bother writing back im not interested in anything else you have to say.

(safe gaurd the feather, hop down from your pedistal it imaginary too) that hurts dude. i really looked up to you.

[m3sca1]

i named it after him out of credit for the idea.nothin more.credit given where credit is due.

so now we have electrolytic cell,avicron cell,Shigeta Hasebes patented spiral DC electrolyser,and crob cell.

i see his point.

standard names help us go forward.

lets call a spade a spade,and from this point on i will call it a spiral plate cell-for that is the best description.

that way anyone looking for info on the design will find it easily.

that makes sense to me.

flame out

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I could not possibly agree more. In fact check the next vid I'm about to upload. There will be no more discussion of a zero-cell either. It will be classified as a vertical series plate brick cell or vertical cell for short.

Crob made a perfectly valid point. The need for standardized and easily recognized nomenclature. I am completely on board with that so long as it's generic and not self promoting.

[imjacen]

In some of the boiler we make we use devices that work in the manner as your test, in short the value changes in the device (your coil) when the device temperature changes in fluid.

Try adding hot & cold water or ice (not together, one after the other) and see if that causes a change in readings, if it works as in our boilers one would cause it to rise and the other to fall. (there is a lot of metal in your coil so there could be a delay before you see any change)

Jacen

[Calliber50]

Here's another thing to check. Multimeters use up to 9volts to check resistance. Make sure the batteries on your meter are fully charged/new. If you still get the unstable readings you may want to try inducing larger voltages and measure the current leakage to get your resistance.

[wasuretta]

Hi ZFF,

Good job bro, KUTGW! What happens if you twist one like infinity?

[Walking backwards]

Diogenes of Sinope

[ubuibiok]

temp. changes?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

No current. Haven't begun gas production tests yet.