Iris Murdoch and Jiddu Krishnamurti Talk (1/11)

[freedomfromthemind]

I think that putting either of these two on a pedestal is a bad idea. Why conceptualize either person as a "god" inside your head? Be your own god, do your own search, then come around to compare notes. Namaste

[Edgaros]

Intellectual masturbation is what ms Murdok does here most of the time. Krishnamurti on the other hand is going right to the core. Too bad people leave their intellectuallity mess with their true sensitivity...

[mateosq]

23,000 views. There's no competition at this level, yeeeeiiii.

[MrMillysworld]

OMG what an incredible discourse between these two great intellectuals and understandably we ordinary humans cannot fully comprehend what they are talking about. I'll watch this again and again and again...

[nahm02]

Typical...women can't get to the point. Jiddu really tries to go into the matter with well chosen true words and this woman just goes bla bla bla. It is very difficult to follow her cause she is like riding "the word rollercoaster" everytime. She may be smart but not in conversations and coming to point. Sorry...but that is the fact!

[Edgaros]

@nahm02 I concur. Aside from the "women can't get to the point" part you are perfectly right...

[davidadvaita]

20,120 views!!! there is some intelligent people left on the planet!!!!

[Roubiere]

@davidadvaita An optimist!

[davidadvaita]

@Roubiere Ha ha, but people are judging both beings here, and at least they had

some interest in the questions of life, at least they had passion, duality splits both these speakers into two, i see one union, hope to think there are more optimists!!!!!! thank you

[HewManatee]

@davidadvaita Does viewing a certain video validate ones claim to possess knowledge? In fact, one might infer that you posted this with the intention of deeming yourself 'intelligent'...or perhaps I'm exemplifying 'the pot calling the kettle black' hahaha food for thought?

[squid4104]

@davidadvaita Yeah but where?-I havent met any recently except my beautiful self.of course!

[on1salsa]

Kingrooster...How is eastern thought more simplistic? In the West you can consult a dictionary to define a term

[on1salsa]

So unfortunate, 10 minutes go by and hardly any agreement on terms. This is the kind of conversation that gives philosophy a bad name;-(. Imagine these two drunk

[Rumiton]

@on1salsa I thought they were!

[atgnt]

This woman has no act of listening, just accumulation of knowledge, heavily conditioned with knowledge, like most of the people including myself.

[sunnyguy1010]

Iris is brilliant no doubt. But then every now and then , the great run into the greatest minds of all time. And that is what is happening here. A great mind such as she cannot but help recognize the stature of the mind in front of her, hence the nervousness and the fumbling around. But lets not judge, two great minds give us a great experience

[eatmychild]

This interview is hilarious! The old guy's silences while he tries to formulate the same question, and Iris' tentative attempts to clarify his insistent misunderstandings. Her devious avoidance of eye contact and his formal schoolboy posture.

Beautiful.

& I've gotta agree with the Rooster King that this struggle to talk about the same things highlights the gulf between eastern and western understanding.

[shickboy]

so, from what i gather from the numerous reactions to iris murdoch's contribution to this dialogue, everyone who has insulted her is enlightened, understands k so completely that they have applied what he is conveying to their own lives and therefore are no longer at the level of childish insult...mmm...yes.

[KINGROOSTER45]

this is actually quite a nice summing up of eastern vs western philosophy- the simplistic, less-is-more platitudes of eastern vs the winding, information heavy western style.

[gypsygyro]

@KINGROOSTER45 i agree, plus it seems as though iris is talking above Krishnamurti.

[KINGROOSTER45]

yes, she fumbles around abit but there's too much abuse on here. We'd all give our left leg to be half as smart as she was- read her philosophy book- she was top notch and she wrote some brilliant novels.

Krishnamurti wrote some nice books and had lovely ideas but i'd prefer a chat to Iris then him anyday.

[Roubiere]

@KINGROOSTER45 I have to agree with you there. Iris was a superb intellectual. Some of the Krishnamurti fans who come to this video have never heard of Iris before, so their reactions are understandable.

[KINGROOSTER45]

@Roubiere I guess so. It's too easy to react on here if someone annoys you. Thanks for the vid by the way, you have some dam intresting stuff. Wish there was more of Iris on youtube but then she was the camera shy sort.

[Inscru2table]

@KINGROOSTER45 If you do not realize how conflicted Iris was despite all her vast grasp on philosophy as you indicate you miss Krishnamurti's essential message;

you are a light unto yourself......................­.............................

[Inscru2table]

@KINGROOSTER45 If you do not realize how conflicted Iris was despite all her vast grasp on philosophy as you indicate you miss Krishnamurti's essential message;

"you are a light unto yourself.".He never wrote nice books with lovely ideas on the contrary they are thought provoking and revolutionary at best.

[Inscru2table]

@KINGROOSTER45

[KINGROOSTER45]

@Inscru2table i've read some Krishnamurti and the terms 'nice' and 'lovely' were just put there to show that i did like them rather then as some well thought out summing up of his works, which would be beyond me at the present time anyway.

I realize Iris was conflicted , and this video shows some of that well. I made the above comment to try and defuse some of the Murdoch-bashing that was going on in the thread at the time.

[nir8vana]

@KINGROOSTER45 Yes but the other has awakened and the other is not.

[mku17ra]

Your tin foil hat just fell off again. I'm gunna git into joor mind again.

[oliveplume]

Women shouldn't allow themsleves to become this smart, look at how much she suffers! She would be far happier making Jiddu some pancakes.

[suren1946]

I respect Iris a lot, as well as the other dude; but the former does indeed come across as doff here!

[FirstBookOfMike]

Nice stereo mix. I disagree that love cannot be experienced because I've been there through a nervous breakdown and forgivness, never expected it and it was quite a shock when it happened. It ended up being very freeing for me, ended up "firing" the organization I was involved with at the time because they were too caught up in their own conditioning that they didn't even want to hear what I had to say.

Krishnamurti himself had that experience when he fell sick under a tree for days

[amirhamra]

this woman is so heavily conditioned by her intellectual life that she became heavy with nonsense ,her mind is so full of stupid reacting intellectual memories.

[tomsega]

Yes, this woman, 'this woman' (*spits*) became so well-read and intelligent she went all the way back round' to being stupid again...

[Roubiere]

Interesting. In my fantasies she's usually spitting on me and spanking me with a hardcover edition of Sartre's Being and Nothingness. To each his own, I guess.

[tropics1020]

10 minutes for them to establish that a person is not his thoughts..jeez.

[pcermomb]

Hehee .. Actually they did not establish that.

[pcermomb]

You should watch all the 11 clips.

[koreankayagum]

The main idea: there is no "I". Think about it for a while. One says "I did it on my own. I wrote this book on my own." However, who made the paper, who bought the book, who published it, and so on? Do you see? Only man's vanity deludes him/her into thinking that he/she did something on his own and that he/she is an island. We are forever bound up with one another, and there is no "me."

[sewercorpse]

I am ver tempted to hit you

will you stop me? it would be very odd if you did... because you think you don't exist.

can you coherently think that you are not thinking?

[Roubiere]

Have you heard about the time Descartes was drinking in a tavern? He had already had a few drinks, so when the barman asked him, "Care for another?" he replied, "I think not," and promptly ceased to exist.

[ryko26]

do you think even THEY have any idea what they are talking about?

[jcsorez]

''Krishnamurti was an 'amateur' "

Amateur means to do something for the love of it, and not wage earning. He made a living as a speaker.

The way of inquiry of the east is much more abstract than the westen approach; which seeks clear definitions and absolute coclusions. Balancing both approaches has been beneficial in my own process. ''I think therefore I am" vs "I am exactly that which I cannot think of".

[euclidxxx]

Krishnamurti sounds like a quack. It may be that he isn't, but he certainly sounds like one. He didn't clarify anything; didn't address a single question put to him, but instead replied with apparently unrelated and veering questions of his own.

[Roubiere]

Thanks for commenting. As I'm sure you know, Western philosophy derives largely from Socrates, whose approach was fiercely logical. Eastern philosophy, however, has a somewhat more airy, mystical approach that can be infuriating to we Westerners. Krishnamurti is certainly more Eastern than Western. Defining concepts, forming premises and conclusions--that's not really his game. He's no quack, though.

[euclidxxx]

Thank you for being so courteous. I'm sorry if I appeared rude.

[IpsaPaphum]

Iris Murdoch was an academically trained pilosopher, whereas Krishnamurti was an 'amateur' and, frankly speaking, not a brilliant intellectual. But I don't feel that K is posing. If you give him some time to come to his point (and I think he often deliberately takes his time), you will see that he discusses and comes to grip with some of the most fundamental questions in philosophy and that he says what he says from authentic experience.

[koreankayagum]

That's right. Most philosophy is lost in abstractions and products of the imagination. In other words, people get lost in a maze of words and clever wordplay. K, on the other hand, was an original thinker and much more direct . Moreover, he never let any nonsense from books influence him (he enjoyed detective novels, however!).

[MundeSardaraDe]

who cares if he answered the question or not?it doesnt matter. You shouldn't rely on krishnamurti's or that irish lady's conversation in the first place..... Anything is related to everything.

[abysimus]

I have been studying Krishnamurti for 30 years. Once you see where he is going, some remarkable insights are achievable. This is a great video series. I dont know how you came by them but I sure am grateful that you shared them on YouTube. Thank you kindly.

[jmonroe64]

Regarding that bit of pneumatic pablum which starts this thing off: Without self-interest there is no person, with no person there is no love. A philosophy that makes absence of self a condition for love is one of self-annihilation (and having accomplished that I congratulate myself, write a book, and tell everyone that doing something ludicrous is the only way to happiness... I keep the saintly smile pasted on because it impresses the yokels and because I really have no choice at this point...)

[abyssquick]

it is odd how krishnamurti and others of his vein would say that one cannot accomplish the annhiliation of the self; as it is the self, the ego, which seeks to accomplish in the first place. thus such declarations are redundant. krishnamurti himself was specific as to the trap of methodology, and the mind's ability to even recognize "spiritual" attainments and accomplishments- as per the limitations of thought's own mechanism.

[shadowcaster56]

we all make choices based on our indiviual thoughts experiences and we experience different outcomes society has to deal with individual choices good or bad it is all realitive the reason for laws is the benifit for the majority of the population

[MJJLWolf]

they are just babbling about the same thing for 10 minutes.

[untilhowlong]

Comming to the right question is not babbling. 10 minutes is nothing, its worth a life time.

[sankhanil]

@untilhowlong you have posted the only sensible comment out here.