how beautiful the U.S. killing so many people in so many wars!
this should be a very delicious thing for the military, political, industrial and government .... bunch of nut cases donkeys, just want to live in war.
bastace like they lie to the war in Iraq are now doing everything possible to invent a more .. from various countries under false pretenses, no more lies no more war .. stop USA!
Smacks all those fuckin' god damn terrorist gooks of the VC.
The liberals want who we think the gooks was good people, but really, the was terrorist, terrorist who kill childrens, Ameraca going to Vietnam, to give a godamn help, but she cant do nothing...
god bless the service men who served in the vietnam . at a time when he was not was not welcome home some were broken some did not come home and our gov. did not back them up at all .
@stuytown23 ohh boy dont be dis appointed because all the product in southeast asia especially from the philippines is the excellent .......unless if that is made in CHINA!!
@thieuducvu True and the North Vietnamese government used you and your people to prove the point. The US lost 58,000 brave souls, North Vietnam lost 1,000,000. Nice that you weren't afraid of death. What would have been the outcome if the North didn't invade the south?
downtalking americans is not going to give world peace a chance either.. be a man and come to terms to accept that any man who gets behind that gun and puts on those boots, and wears that uniform.whether they are american soldiers or VC soldiers..is a man to be honored. black.chinese..mexican.white..vietnamese...idc who it is...they are not a coward if they will fight for their country and sacrifice their own life...there are two sides to every story. remember that.
@Jootlash14 warpeace11 didn't say anything about it being "right," only that they respected those who were willing to serve, fight, and unfortunatley, die, for their country.
@Jootlash14 At the time it was. You must put the war in its historical context. The Berlin wall had just gone up, South Korea had been invaded by Russia just 8 years before. China had gone communist. The war was mismanaged by the President and his advisors as a political war and not by generals to win a war.
@gerry301 hard to say if it was mismanaged. LBJ was trying to prevent killing Chinese and Russians in North Vietnam. He was afraid it would escalate to WW3. He was afraid it would start like in the Korean War where China sent 2 million soldiers to defend North Korea. As far as the Asians were concerned, they were trying to gain independence after being occupied by foreign powers. I dunno why you Americans cannot see through your own propaganda when your history is similar, fighting the British
@AccordGTR I agree with you that LBJ and MacNamerra were terrified of China or the Soviet Union from entering the war. But their fear and adversity to offending in any way, the USSR and China went far beyond the 'norms' expected in warfare. Even though the North Vietnamese would probobly have not allowed China into Vietnam because of their own history.(other than as advisors). A 30 mile 'off limits' near the Chinese border was used to stockpile material............
@AccordGTR ......... A 20-30 'off limits' zone around Hanoi did the same. Airfields were off limits for a long time as well as a 20 mile buffer around Haiphong where 85% of the norths supplies came in. This was not so much about killing of Chinese or Russians as it was ignoring the accepted rules of war in favor of playing a politically nuanced war by the leadership. The north must have been extatic over the rules of engagement.
The reason for fighting was legitimate at the time.
@gerry301 "ecstatic" about being bombed by more tonnage dropped on Japan and Germany?? Let's discuss your "legitimate reason for fighting" shall we? Your reason was fighting the spread of communism. I know that very well cuz in the Philippines we also had a communist movement, the Huks that US/CIA was also helping us fight. But that's another story. Did the US have a right to invade Vietnam? No. South Vietnam was ruled by a dictator supported by the US. It was not a popular govt
@AccordGTR Did the US have a 'right' to invade Vietnam? No the US had no 'right'. However they were asked by the democratic government of South Vietnam to help. At the time, it was important to contain 'communism'. The US was willing to support the weak South Vietnamese government until it could stop the insurgency supported by North Vietnam and later 'invaded' by North Vietnamese troops. While not a popular government, the government from the north was much less popular. Re: TET 1968.
@gerry301 During WW2, US gave arms to Ho Ci Minh to fight the Japs and supported him after the war cuz they also wanted the French out. But when Russia occupied Eastern Europe and Chinese communists won, US got paranoid and started helping the French in Dien Bien Phu, ignoring the fact that Ho Chi Minh was fighting for independence and freedom of Vietnam. After 1954 defeat of French, US started covert operations to undermine North Vietnam and supported autoritarian govt of the South..
@AccordGTR Yes, the US helped the French with arms and money. Not what Roosevelt would have wanted , but Eisenhower persued. Not paranoia when the Berlin crisis took place, the iron wall went up, and Korea was invaded, as well as Hungary. There was 'real' concern.
Not aware of any 'covert' operations to undermine the North after 1954, unless you start talking about the support that the north was giving to the VC in the south and the efforts early on to disrupt it.
@gerry301 u need to learn some historical facts before giving me propaganda...South Vietnam was NEVER a democracy. Read about Ngo Dinh Diem, the South Vietnamese President whose brother rigged the elections in 1955. Eisenhower chose Diem as his puppet and informed him that the US will be supplying military aid directly through him after Oct 1954. CIA' Edward Landsdale in the meantime was busy with covert operations both in North and South. Read about that before continuing, pls!
@AccordGTR I'll put the reading on my list, thanks. Vietnam was divided by a UN decree in 1954. The south did not sign and was as crooked as they come. Was the election rigged? without a doubt. Does that absolve Ho Chi Minh from aiding a communist insurgency in the south? You're seeing what you want to see and turning a blind eye to the actions of the north.
@gerry301 Uh hello, we all grew up knowing the "actions of the North"! I have seen every Vietnam War movie since THE GREEN BERETS. haha But I never knew about the real truth until after 9/11 when my research led to me historical books. Read this book by Peter Harclerode FIGHTING DIRTY. (former British SAS. they say SAS make the SEALS look like pansies haha). Also read Philippine-US War 1899-1902 many of the Vietnam stuff was started here like hamletting, torture and search-and-destroy
@AccordGTR LOL, yes, and I liked the 'Green Berets' with John Wayne. I've probobly read over a hundred books on Vietnam, albiet mostly 1st person accounts of their time there or of certain battles. I am much aware of the background to the war and the political shinanigans. Almost all is given or taken from western historians who with little or no knowledge of what NorthVietnam was doing, have ignored that side of the argument. I seriously doubt the SAS would make SEALs look like pansies.
@gerry301 Re Seals vs SAS from what little I know it seems the difference is the SEALS go out of their bases on a mission, recon, ambush or snatch, then they come right back. SAS they go to a foreign country and stay for months, years, sometimes battling govt forces like in Oman 1958-1976 or communist insurgents like in Malaya 1948-58. SEALS basically work for CIA, they are just special forces used for certain missions. SAS are like CIA and Special Forces combined. I wanna read more about SAS.
@AccordGTR Prior to Vietnam the SAS had (Ithink) the first 'hunter killer' teams. The SEALs followed thattactic in Vietnam. While staging from bases, they would drop in unexpectedly in different places to gather or kill their target. That concept has now grown in the US with Delta Force as well. Probobly numbers around 5-10 thousand. CIA has their own group. I read where prior to 9/11 there were 200, and has grown significantly since then. Mostly prior SF/SEAL troops
@gerry301 CIA personnel would be used where deniability or very low profiles are needed for political purposes. SF/SEALs are subject to the Geneva convention and must use those rules as well as being subject to being listed as a POW. Not necessarily CIA, although they have rules of their own.
@gerry301 SEALS is supposed to be under the US Navy but if they are used by the CIA, they do not operate under the chain of command. CIA operates under POTUS alone which gives them jurisdiction (dunno if this is the right term but you get my drift) over all other US military forces and local police. For example in Afghanistan, ISAF must obey ROE but CIA and Special Forces under them have their own ROE which is probably secret again also. LOL
@AccordGTR All Special Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) fall under USSOCOM led by a four star general who reports to the Sec Def then POTUS. CIA 'Special Activities Section' report to the Dir CIA then POTUS. While the two work together often, the Chain of Command must be followed. USSOCOM members are not allowed to do undercover work. CIA can. ROE change from mission to mission, my guess is both get instructions as to what can be done or not done each time.
@AccordGTR I looked up Peter Harcleodes book, Fighting dirty. Apparently it got poor reviews and was rated as such. One commentor said they couldn't get past three chapters, another stated a lot of research but of little historical value. So thanks for the reference, but I doubt I will read it.
@gerry301 I hardly ever listen to reviews because they are biased and how would the reviewer know what I am interested in anyway? Maybe they thought it was "of little historical value" because it condenses over a hundred years of covert wars into one book, from the Balkans to Afghanistan. But that's what the references are there for if you want to investigate it further. No one source will tell you the whole story but if u stop reading or doing research, you will never advance your knowledge
@AccordGTR My interests are mostly with the Vietnam war. I was there, my friends were there. In my little piece of Vietnam it was hard to say what it was all about. And my friends were in the field so often, they were lucky if they knew what day of the week it was. So thats where my interest was born. Have you read 'Street without Joy' by Bernard Fall? Considered the best history of the French indochina war. Very good, still a best seller after 50 years. I read every day, perhaps a book a week.
@gerry301 I try to keep up on military affairs as it has become a hobby of mine. Lucky me I'm retired and now have the time. At the time the Gulf conflict, Iraq, and now Afganistan (by the way there are probobly 50-100 'bases' now in Afganistan). I also enjoy military technology, and Militaryt history, so I try to keep up.
@gerry301 I read so many Vietnam War books. My fave are WE WERE SOLDIERS, THE KILLING ZONE by Frederick Downs, SEAL Team Men of the Trident, A Sniper in the Arizona, Blood Trails, My Secret War. Do you know APOCALYPSE NOW, HAMBURGER HILL, and PLATOON were shot in Philippines? I visited HCM City in 2009, toured the Cu Chi tunnels and all museums. My father-in-law served in Vietnam 1965-69 with the Philippine forces there. Did u visit Subic and Clark AFB here in the PH (its no longer the PI)?
@AccordGTR I saw every Vietnam war movie ever made. Enjoyed platoon. The music 'adagio for strings(?)' is considered the saddest music ever written. Read a number of Spec Forces books. Enjoyed SOG. Everybody loves the SF soldiers yet they mostly did recon. It was the Marine or Soldier on the ground who had to dig the enemy out. Favorites were 'Blackjack 33', and 'Blackjack 34'. True stories wriiten by the team medic. Well written. I only passed thru Clark AB in transit to Vietnam from Taiwan.
@gerry301 Fyi, the FIGHTING DIRTY book focus on covert wars, no conventional battle stories, while glossing over historical events (basically summarizes the background for context) it details covert operations, their names, leaders, mission objectives, assets used, how many they killed, etc. basically its secret stuff that Americans were not aware of. You were told the Vietnam war started in 1965 for America but actually America started killing Vietnamese 10 years before. Not interesting huh?
@AccordGTR I don't remember anyone telling me when the war started. Where do you get the idea that Americans are told what to believe and then believe it? This is a country where a president can't even get a blowjob in his own office without it being blabbed all over the media, with discussions as to whether it was right or wrong and what technique did she use. You should have said when North Vietnamese began killing South Vietnamese 10 years before. Very interesting, I think.
@gerry301 I can see you didn't read about Ngo Dinh Diem, Edward Landsdale and Ho Chi Minh yet, they are in Wikipedia. At first, Viet Minh was battling the French. When French lost 1954, US took over, at first covertly then overtly in 1965. Diem was assassinated and South Vietnam became one military dictatorship after another. So your "South Vietnam" was never really a democracy. US didn't care to give Vietnam its independence. It wanted a puppet state like what the French had.
@AccordGTR When the French lost in 1954, the UN divided the country. The French left and the struggling government of South Vietnam asked for help in training its army as well as military aid. Diem rejected the call for elections between the north and south and held rigged elections of his own. The US didn't like Diem and he behaved like an idiot, but the US also saw it as a quest by the communists to take over the country so they stayed for that reason. Similair to Sygman Rhee in Korea.
@gerry301 Nice try, but I suppose you'd have to call South Korea, Japan, Germany, etc puppet states as well. Vietnam had no value to the US except as a bastion agaist communism at the time.
@gerry301 I think the US prolonged the war in Vietnam for another 20 years which cost US taxpayers over a trillion dollars and millions of Vietnamese dead and maimed. If the US hadn't intervened 1954, there would have been a civil war. That civil war was postponed to 1972 when the US left and South Vietnam fell shortly after. US opened diplomatic relations with China 1979 then with Vietnam 1995. So much for the "fear" of communism and the 58,000 American lives in Vietnam.
@AccordGTR Lets not get carried away. The 'war' really didn't get underway until 1965. With smoke but no real fire until then. I don't believe the US expended 'a trillion' dollars as it was costing about 5 billion a year at the time. One can easily say that the dead were the result of Ho Chi Minh invading the south. How long is appropriate before opening up relations with another country? Pehaps you should have told Russia that as well. You should ask the South Vietnamese who were 're-educated.
@gerry301 I'm surprised you're a soldier yet u do not understand when war "starts". War starts when political leaders mobilize armed forces to attack each other. USS Saipan and 37 pilots of the CIA's airline CAT supported the French in Dien Bien Phu 1954. 7 of those pilots were recently awarded the French Legion Of Honor in 2005. Look that up too.
Military spending 1965-75 was $828B 1975 dollars which is $5trillion 2008 dollars (not all was Vietnam War)
@AccordGTR Those forces were mobilized after the 'Gulf of Tonkin' resolution, shortly thereafter the US marines landed in Danang (1965) as base security. Prior to that the US had military advisors. According the the Congressional research service the cost of the Vietnam war was $111 billion;, or $738 billion in 2011 dollars.
@gerry301 that same CRS report is only an assumption that ONLY 20% of the TOTAL military spending 1965-75 was spent for the Vietnam War. $828B was the TOTAL US military cost for 1965-75. However 20% is conservative because LBJ stripped European units of their ordinance and personnel for the Vietnam War. Figure out the cost of over 3,100 aircraft lost and 830,000 servicemen suffered PTSD, 58k kia, 150k 21k disability, makes your $111B look ridiculous.
@gerry301 documented US losses and casualties reports are "rumor and uninformed opinion"? you have other sources to dispute my facts and figures? the CRS report is an assumption, there is no "cost center" in the accounting rules of the US military to record expenses specifically for the Vietnam War. Try totaling aircraft losses alone is well over $15B. They say American taxpayers are still paying for the debt from the budget deficit incurred during the Vietnam War.
@AccordGTR A Congressional research would probobly be the best sourse in determining the cost of the war. If you disagree and want to use other sources its up to you. You have been consistantly seeing what you want to see and looking for ideas that support your own opinion of what the war was about. We seem to disagree. I suspect that will not change either of our opinions.
@gerry301 "seeing what I want to see"? That's funny cuz most of my education, facts, opinions and sources is from US/UK media, former military and govt sources. the whole idea about searching for the truth is looking at all sides, not just a few sources. U admit "few of u knew what was going on" at the time but its not an excuse anymore to be ignorant with all the analysis and documents available. But I respect ur opinion and my job is not to sell u anything just to make people aware
@AccordGTR You also have to remember the Viet Minh lost their popularity after the French left and were dispised for their tactics of terror in the countryside against those they considered counter revolutionaries. They fell apart and the NLF (Viet Cong) were created and supported by Ho to take their place. Not exactly a popular movement of the people.
@gerry301 Even before French left, the CIA under Edward Landsdale was organizing covert action teams for deployment in North Vietnam where they would carry out assassination, sabotage and other clandestine missions. CIA spread lies that North Vietnamese were killing Catholics and attacking South Vietnam, moved arms and explosives shipments to the North, recruited 40,000 Hmong mercenaries by 1959. As a result, the NVA retaliated. So the US started the war but the North finished it.
@AccordGTR So the US actually attacked North Vietnam and they only retaliated in self defense. Thank you for providing me information that apparently no one else has ever known. Its beer time so if you like we can talk tomorrow. Have a nice day? Night?, Evening? Morning?
@gerry301 hehe I'm back. yes, I got that info in FIGHTING DIRTY but I'm pretty sure u can find other sources in the internet. Things is, in the 70's we only had TV radio or print to tell u what was going on. Today, especially with the Freedom Of Info Act plus many military-turned-journalists we can get a lot of info that will corroborate many allegations and stories. Americans may have believed Vietnam was a war against freedom but it wasn't. It was pure US greed
@AccordGTR I agree the information available on the internet is awesome. The Americans believed the war in Vietnam was against communism. The same way as the war in Korea was. It lost popularity due to antiwar protests and the registration for the draft. Many young men did not want to be drafted and the antiwar movement grew significantly. The media sells papers by giving the populace what they want, so the reporting became unfare and unbalanced as well. It still exists today.
@AccordGTR The US stock market (Dow industrial avg) in 1965 was at 918 pts, in 1975 it was at 821. Not what you would call an industrial boom and certainly not a good time for this country.
@gerry301 ...so fact is, US was fighting, not because of the Vietnamese people, but for US power over rivals, USSR and China, and control of the seas and resources. The protection and unification of Vietnam was secondary to US interests. If the US could not install a govt it THOUGHT friendly to itself other than China/USSR, then it would undermine that govt through any means. Thus was the US foreign policy at that time up to this day.
@AccordGTR Wrong conclusion. The US was fighting against a communist insugency from the North led by Ho Chi Minh. Ho was an avowed communist even when the US supported him against the Japanese.
To say the US was fighting against rivals and then say they were afraid of China and Russia entering the war makes no sense. Again fighting for Vietnams resources is like fighting for Koreas oil.
@gerry301 OK so answer me this, if US was in Vietnam fighting a communist insurgency, why is it doing business with the same communists (China, Vietnam) today? What has changed?
@AccordGTR Could be for the same reason the US does business with Japan, Germany, Russia, and even England. Times change and the trade is good for all. I don't think that is the argument. Why do we send troops to the PI?
@gerry301 Nope. US beat Japan and Germany and occupied them so those hostile govts are dead. Russia is no longer communist. War with England was over 200 years ago. The Cold War was really about furthering American corporate interests, not about freedom and liberty for people. The communist domino theory was propaganda to justify war. The real objective is American imperialism. If you study geoplitical and military history from 1870's to present, you will understand what I am saying.
@AccordGTR Now you are getting way off track. No I am not a conspirocy minded person with delusions of secret societies of people plotting to run the world. But if you enjoy the drama, go right ahead. To me the world is hard enough to keep track of without James Bond, Bloefeld and Dr No.
@gerry301 Uh, you deny the US has lots of secrets? Why does it have to have a Freedom Information Act if it doesn't keep many secrets. Fact is, a lot of secrets have been kept from Americans but thanks to the internet, this is rapidly changing. Even with the new technology, the US govt still tries very hard to keep secrets. But some people don't have the time or the inkling to seek the truth. They get upset when their view of the world is challenged.
@AccordGTR Why on earth would I deny the US has lots of secrets. So does Switzerland, Leichenstien, and the Vatican as well. They are diplomatic, Business, and military. I was in the military long enough to be part of some and knew of others. Believe me, most secrets would bore you to death. At least the US has a program to release most of this data. I think Jukian Arange helped greatly with his release of diplomatic documents. They were boring, and for the most part inocuous.
@gerry301 haha Switzerland doesn't have over 700 military bases around the world or topple sovereign govts, supports dictators or invade other countries. you really have this rosy view of the US govt huh? For you, Julian Assange "helped" but are you at all aware the US Justice launched an investigation and is planning charges? the Wikileaks diplomatic leaks were boring to you but they are a sensation everywhere else. US Ambassador to the Philippines was highly embarrassed they moved her out
@AccordGTR I doubt the 700 military bases around the world quote was ever true, and having been to 23 different countries during my time of service, I suspect a very large number of those 'bases' are like a few I served at. In a trailor, on a hill, running a radar, or downloading satellite data. Total # people 10 or less. Ramstein AB in Germany probobly had as many as 10-15 such 'bases, for communication, satellite tracking etc. Did you think these bases were going to take over the world?
@gerry301 A trailer is not a military base. Check Google for the list. Germany alone has 57 US Army bases listed in Google and that's not including the USAF bases. Its not how many people are based there . In fact it could be empty of American personnel as in the case of Saudi Arabia which has "an advanced American military infrastructure" including stockpiles of "U.S.-manufactured war materiel and U.S.-trained personnel' ready for American soldiers to use when needed.
@AccordGTR I did look it up, and apparently the same page on wikipedia as I counted 57 as well. However that should be qualified as 12 of those places being housing areas or munition/ storage depots.(I went to one once and it was run and cared for by German Nationals.) Also Landsthule Hospital. While I guess it could be classed as a base, I doubt its a threat to anyone. I worked on a hill about 1/2 mile from there. It was difficult to look up all the others. Ansback army base was one building.
@AccordGTR I am aware the US Justice system is thinking about charges. However its a political football and politicians are afraid (again) of doing anything less they lose votes in the next election (How are the politicians in your country?). Personally I'd like it more if the Russian FSB took Assange out. Maybe we could hire them. In the interests of Detante' of course. Again, not much other than someone embarrasing someone else. Really. No, I do not have a rosy view of my elected leaders.
@gerry301 have you heard about Daniel Ellsberg? Read it in Wikipedia. In 1971 he released top secret documents about the Vietnam War that JFK and LBJ lied to the public. He considers Assange and Pfc. Bradley Manning (the guy charged with releasing the video about Apache helicopter killing Reuters cameramen and children in Iraq) modern day heroes. Again, history repeats itself. Did u know that Vietnam War tactics like hamletting, search and destroy, water torture were developed in the PH-US WAr?
@AccordGTR I have no doubt Ellsberg considers Assange and Manning heros, probobly has a picture of Jane Fonda on his wall as well. Saw the vid on the Rueters killing. I believe the crew was exonerated. Familiar with Phoenix program, search and destroy, waterbording etc.. Never heard of hamletting. I'll have to look it up. Search and destroy, my goodness. Search for the enemy, find the enemy, and destroy the enemy. Its common to do so during war.
@gerry301 Apache crew was exonerated by the US military. How can you investigate yourself?
Hamletting means moving the peasants to concentration camps like the Nazi's did, only this was the Philippines in 1899. The idea being to deny the VC soldiers to recruit. In the PH 200,000+ died.
No, search and destroy means burning the crops and villages denying the enemy food and shelter then moving out the peasants to concentration camps only the Americans called it hamlets. Nice huh?
@gerry301 I was on a couple of investigation boards in the Airforce. They were professionally conducted and findings were what the facts indicated. I know the media loves a good witch hunt and will disregard all facts as long as they get someone to hang. But the military operates acording to the rules of law and justice. Yes, if you search long enough you can find exceptions, but they are few and far between.
@gerry301 I believe you are talking about relocation of farmers in rural areas. And yes it was done to protect the farmers from the VC as well as clear large areas for military operations. (Limit casualties). Don't remember the media calling them concentration camps, although I'm sure they would have reported it if they were at the time as the media was very negative on US actions in Vietnam. And no, search and destroy was not about burning crops and villages.
@gerry301 Concentration camps, hamletting- just semantics, means forced migration and detention. Don't forget the US also had concentration camps in California and other states for American-Japanese in WW2 which was very shameful. In 1979 Brzezinski (Carter's SecState) called Islamic Extremists in Afghanistan FREEDOM FIGHTERS. Barely 15 years later they were called terrorists. In 1948 Zionist orgs like Irgun were viewed as terrorists. Then they became Likud Party and aliies of the US. Semantics
@AccordGTR Nice, but your arguments are becoming irrational. You have now gone from Vietnam, to WWII, to the Russian Afgan war, to the Israeli conflicts, in one comment. Thanks for an interesting dialog and discussion on the Vietnam war. I enjoyed it. Have a nice day.
@gerry301 Irrational? If u look at my first comment to u, it was about understanding other people and US foreign policy...u cannot do that if only look at one or few events and listen to propaganda. U need to look at the patterns in history and listen to people who spent more time than u researching. Kinda silly to be discussing one's own opinions if it is based on a limited amount of knowledge. I know u r only interested in the Vietnam War since that was Your war. Nice talking to u anyway
@gerry301 Sure but u cannot separate military discipline from human rights abuses. Just cuz u wer following orders doesn't make it right. That's what Germany heeded to learn during the Third Reich. Nowadays you don't have much to go before finding all kinds of US human rights abuses. I could spend all day sending all the links to you but I don't think that would make much difference to you. "Enemies are necessary for the wheels of the US military machine to turn" John Stockwell, former CIA Chief
@gerry301 ...Amb. Kenney was well-loved here throwing parties and attending socials making friends with the rich and powerful then Wikileaks revealed she was sending Washington reports about confidential matters and her personal opinion on top politicians here. Now no country will trust any American Ambassador because they spy on their host country and tell lies. haha yah right, pretty boring stuff for you maybe!
@AccordGTR Really? And what do you think the embassies of China, Russia, and Vietnam do? Go to church and whip themselves in repentance for their sins everyday. The information was a bonanza for the news media who drank it all in scanned the informaqtion for days to sensationalize anything that could be had. And all they got was 'embarrasing comments'. The media drooled over the prospects of finding dirt, and all they got was?
America went there to protect south Vietnam and to establish democracy there. not to gain money or anything like that. So shut the fuck up if you dont know shit
@Thedarkcountry yes when i could be bothered looking for them i hate these glorifying war mongers here you dont see any vietnamese war videos posted by asians now do you thats because we are peaceful people where as the usa all march around military like looking for their next war to be heroes in ,you are one sick country dude
@endracismguy We document wars because those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. And to say asians don't make war documentaries is ignorant and stupid.
my grandfather told me he killed 75 american invaders he is a true hero to us because the american had all the best of weapons he also told me most of them were cowards who ran from them and cry like babys when captured he was not a communists he was just protecting his family and country from american murderers who killed women and childs and bomb villages full of inocents to make us afraid americas are the war monger terrorist trash of the world
@endracismguy That's BULLSHIT. Very few americans commited those crimes, and the ones that did went to jail. The vietcong and the NVA raped and killed children right in front of their parents. They killed innocent people every day. So FUCK you.
They admitted the gulf of Tonkin incident was FAKE! So no wonder people are mad because the army fought for some corrupt bankers and not for their freedom or their country! And yes i know i;m a lazy basterd behind the computer but that's not even an comparisment when you talk about a LYING goverment!
When someone says a Vietnam veteran died for no reason, it's not usually meant as a personal insult. If anything, it's a comment on the heart-wrenching tragedy of losing one's life for a bunch of power hungry politicians who exploited the military to meet their own needs.
Ordered to battle in distant lands by distant men, slaughtered on mass in the raging fires of war, in the unforgiving mire of the Vietnamese jungle. Man and machine welded together by blood. Bones crushed, men broken as death joys above watching the brilliant spectacle of destruction and debris. Such is the nature of man that he creates beauty in both creation and in death, and what beauty to see millions wilfully march to annihilation. To brand the very land with the stamp of death. Such is man
FOR ANY VETS THAT SEE THIS COMMENT: I want to thank you for your service and understand that I am not one of the yellow bellied hippie coward piece of shit fucks that downed you guys. I appreciate you guys and would shake your hand if I ever met you in person. ((PEOPLE))- We need to seek out VETS, shake their hands, buy them lunch, give them a hug. It helps them heal and it let's them know that we care. Thanks VETS!!
@dover357 That's exactly the uneducated dumb remark I was expecting, keep plying the same "oh you liberal" or "you commy" retorts, you lack compassion and are a paranoid militia rebel flag waving douche.
it doesn't hurt once in a while to shed a tear for something other than America, you selfish shit, I doubt you care about Japan right now! Get the fuck outta my country!
u k now we would of won the war if the fucking hippies and people stop protesting. for every one american death we lost in that war the viets lost 10.
Vets kill inocents, y dont insult them, because is the goberment but they kill or make amage to vietnam eople like in the video of the girl burn whit napalm and how the mother charge his child die whith his skin burn.
One of the guys is turning pale from his wounds bleeding for good old US of A and for his buddies. Yeah I know how it feels and the PTS that comes later. These guys did a good job and it was worth it. The other side suffered worse casualties. None but the brave. I was in the service but here in my country we have a low intensity conflict. Yeah I saw guys die here too but not like that in the video.
when you´ve fought in a war, and went through hell,it doesn´t matter what side you fight,you lost your friends, your life,your youth.............the only ones who win a war are those who never fought
Everyone who has insulted the Vets on this video or any other, I want you to go find a Vietnam Vet. I want you to look him in the eye, and tell him he lost his legs for nothing. Tell him his best friend since grade school died for no reason. Find a widow of a soldier, tell him her husband is rotting away in an unmarked grave in a distant jungle, gave his life for nothing. Do it. I dare you.
Yeah it would be fairly terrible to do that, but the fact is they did die for nothing. And they killed a whole lot more for nothing. In a way the vets as well as the people they slaughtered were both victims of a giant propaganda machine that is the American regime.
@warpeace11 I am a Vietnam era vet, my father was a veteran of WW II (10 months in a German POW, Korea and Vietnam--twice--and my son is currently serving and is an Iraq War vet. My father retired because he was going to be sent back to Vietnam for a third time and when I was drafted, he strongly advised me not to go to Vietnam because it was a politician's war and we were going to lose it. I lost many of my friends from high school and their names are on the wall. They died for nothing.
@warpeace11 i do agree with you in many, the vietnam war was a waste of time and lives. when i served over in norway i did have a reason for the fighting, keeping civilians safe was my priority from the czechs
@warpeace11 What was it for? Maybe younger people or even some people who were around then aren't sure why we were there and lost all those lives. Tell me why because it isn't talked about much in our media or history books and it's not covered in school. Nothing against soldiers because they did their jobs without complaint and pay the most. But, politicians get us into wars like Vietnam and the current Afghan war and they seem to be for no good reason.
@warpeace11 The DID die for no reason, because the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a LIE. They TRICKED us into believeing there was a threat there, when there wasn't. So when people say it was for no reason, it's not to insult the troops, it's to say they died in vain. Which they DID. There was no reason for us to ever have been there in the first place. All those men should never have lost their lives, because even though they THOUGHT they were fighting for freedom, they weren't.
@warpeace11 i was born in 88 and am no historian - honest question, what was the reason?
from the little I have seen, it seems this war wasn't fought to protect the country when threatened (unllike, say, the world wars). it seems to me like it was done to further the interests of some pig politicians, like modern day iraq/afghanistan. that to me really does seem pointless and is not something I would sacrifice life or limb for. if that's true, then whether it upsets vets/relatives is irrelevant.
@jimmyshitbags plain and simple it was to prevent the spread of communism. During the "cold war" it was communism vs capitalism, and south vietnam was capitalistic whereas north vietnam was communistic.
I was a student in Vietnam and I think you should go back and find the team goes, he fought and are there waiting for you to bring him home, you have to fight our real brave and heroic, the warrior you are, go back we will help you,
@warpeace11 Yes they died for nothing but evil They killed innocent women and childrens and they deserve to be punished Truth is always painful i will say this by looking in his eyes but can he face his victums No never
get the hell out of here, unless you think there any actual good things that came out of this shitty war. Then cmon, lay them on me you asshole. Everybody knows this war was a catastrophic failure and we shouldn't have been fucking around in Vietnam.
Tôi yêu Việt Nam!
yeuhoabinh1 1 month ago
usa rules!
usa466 1 month ago
how beautiful the U.S. killing so many people in so many wars!
this should be a very delicious thing for the military, political, industrial and government .... bunch of nut cases donkeys, just want to live in war.
bastace like they lie to the war in Iraq are now doing everything possible to invent a more .. from various countries under false pretenses, no more lies no more war .. stop USA!
maxdragonmelo 2 months ago
@10:36 dang that girl with a gun
sanderella218 3 months ago
the only man that comes to mine when i think of the Vietnam War is Gunnery Seargent Carlos Hathcock
isaac429 3 months ago
Smacks all those fuckin' god damn terrorist gooks of the VC.
The liberals want who we think the gooks was good people, but really, the was terrorist, terrorist who kill childrens, Ameraca going to Vietnam, to give a godamn help, but she cant do nothing...
RonaldReaganfication 3 months ago
i new they were guna get us but god dam. lol brave men i have to say because that looked realy bad
deano509 4 months ago
god bless the service men who served in the vietnam . at a time when he was not was not welcome home some were broken some did not come home and our gov. did not back them up at all .
TheHawk5455 4 months ago
I was so disappointed my new coat "Made in Vietnam"
stuytown23 4 months ago
@stuytown23 ohh boy dont be dis appointed because all the product in southeast asia especially from the philippines is the excellent .......unless if that is made in CHINA!!
johnlasatin 3 months ago
This war was the First to try to limit Civies
stuytown23 4 months ago
a loser american shame, and has nothing to say shame do.khi his troops to their death, by vieetjnam as a people not afraid of death.
thieuducvu 5 months ago
@thieuducvu fuck off chink
NewRapBeats 4 months ago
@thieuducvu True and the North Vietnamese government used you and your people to prove the point. The US lost 58,000 brave souls, North Vietnam lost 1,000,000. Nice that you weren't afraid of death. What would have been the outcome if the North didn't invade the south?
gerry301 2 months ago
they did die for something warpeace...they saved lives in vietnam u dumbass
iganzar 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Long live vietnam, they kicked these dog out. nobody beat vietnam and nobody will.
unit731gamer 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
GOD FUCK AMERICA
Petlovedurian 6 months ago
downtalking americans is not going to give world peace a chance either.. be a man and come to terms to accept that any man who gets behind that gun and puts on those boots, and wears that uniform.whether they are american soldiers or VC soldiers..is a man to be honored. black.chinese..mexican.white..vietnamese...idc who it is...they are not a coward if they will fight for their country and sacrifice their own life...there are two sides to every story. remember that.
13RGaun 6 months ago
There is no winners in wars!
veinsofadr 6 months ago
warpeace11 do you think just because people lost lives and limbs that it was the right thing to do?
Jootlash14 8 months ago
@Jootlash14 warpeace11 didn't say anything about it being "right," only that they respected those who were willing to serve, fight, and unfortunatley, die, for their country.
gleetron 7 months ago
@Jootlash14 At the time it was. You must put the war in its historical context. The Berlin wall had just gone up, South Korea had been invaded by Russia just 8 years before. China had gone communist. The war was mismanaged by the President and his advisors as a political war and not by generals to win a war.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 hard to say if it was mismanaged. LBJ was trying to prevent killing Chinese and Russians in North Vietnam. He was afraid it would escalate to WW3. He was afraid it would start like in the Korean War where China sent 2 million soldiers to defend North Korea. As far as the Asians were concerned, they were trying to gain independence after being occupied by foreign powers. I dunno why you Americans cannot see through your own propaganda when your history is similar, fighting the British
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I agree with you that LBJ and MacNamerra were terrified of China or the Soviet Union from entering the war. But their fear and adversity to offending in any way, the USSR and China went far beyond the 'norms' expected in warfare. Even though the North Vietnamese would probobly have not allowed China into Vietnam because of their own history.(other than as advisors). A 30 mile 'off limits' near the Chinese border was used to stockpile material............
gerry301 2 months ago
@AccordGTR ......... A 20-30 'off limits' zone around Hanoi did the same. Airfields were off limits for a long time as well as a 20 mile buffer around Haiphong where 85% of the norths supplies came in. This was not so much about killing of Chinese or Russians as it was ignoring the accepted rules of war in favor of playing a politically nuanced war by the leadership. The north must have been extatic over the rules of engagement.
The reason for fighting was legitimate at the time.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 "ecstatic" about being bombed by more tonnage dropped on Japan and Germany?? Let's discuss your "legitimate reason for fighting" shall we? Your reason was fighting the spread of communism. I know that very well cuz in the Philippines we also had a communist movement, the Huks that US/CIA was also helping us fight. But that's another story. Did the US have a right to invade Vietnam? No. South Vietnam was ruled by a dictator supported by the US. It was not a popular govt
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Did the US have a 'right' to invade Vietnam? No the US had no 'right'. However they were asked by the democratic government of South Vietnam to help. At the time, it was important to contain 'communism'. The US was willing to support the weak South Vietnamese government until it could stop the insurgency supported by North Vietnam and later 'invaded' by North Vietnamese troops. While not a popular government, the government from the north was much less popular. Re: TET 1968.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 During WW2, US gave arms to Ho Ci Minh to fight the Japs and supported him after the war cuz they also wanted the French out. But when Russia occupied Eastern Europe and Chinese communists won, US got paranoid and started helping the French in Dien Bien Phu, ignoring the fact that Ho Chi Minh was fighting for independence and freedom of Vietnam. After 1954 defeat of French, US started covert operations to undermine North Vietnam and supported autoritarian govt of the South..
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Yes, the US helped the French with arms and money. Not what Roosevelt would have wanted , but Eisenhower persued. Not paranoia when the Berlin crisis took place, the iron wall went up, and Korea was invaded, as well as Hungary. There was 'real' concern.
Not aware of any 'covert' operations to undermine the North after 1954, unless you start talking about the support that the north was giving to the VC in the south and the efforts early on to disrupt it.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 u need to learn some historical facts before giving me propaganda...South Vietnam was NEVER a democracy. Read about Ngo Dinh Diem, the South Vietnamese President whose brother rigged the elections in 1955. Eisenhower chose Diem as his puppet and informed him that the US will be supplying military aid directly through him after Oct 1954. CIA' Edward Landsdale in the meantime was busy with covert operations both in North and South. Read about that before continuing, pls!
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I'll put the reading on my list, thanks. Vietnam was divided by a UN decree in 1954. The south did not sign and was as crooked as they come. Was the election rigged? without a doubt. Does that absolve Ho Chi Minh from aiding a communist insurgency in the south? You're seeing what you want to see and turning a blind eye to the actions of the north.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Uh hello, we all grew up knowing the "actions of the North"! I have seen every Vietnam War movie since THE GREEN BERETS. haha But I never knew about the real truth until after 9/11 when my research led to me historical books. Read this book by Peter Harclerode FIGHTING DIRTY. (former British SAS. they say SAS make the SEALS look like pansies haha). Also read Philippine-US War 1899-1902 many of the Vietnam stuff was started here like hamletting, torture and search-and-destroy
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR LOL, yes, and I liked the 'Green Berets' with John Wayne. I've probobly read over a hundred books on Vietnam, albiet mostly 1st person accounts of their time there or of certain battles. I am much aware of the background to the war and the political shinanigans. Almost all is given or taken from western historians who with little or no knowledge of what NorthVietnam was doing, have ignored that side of the argument. I seriously doubt the SAS would make SEALs look like pansies.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Re Seals vs SAS from what little I know it seems the difference is the SEALS go out of their bases on a mission, recon, ambush or snatch, then they come right back. SAS they go to a foreign country and stay for months, years, sometimes battling govt forces like in Oman 1958-1976 or communist insurgents like in Malaya 1948-58. SEALS basically work for CIA, they are just special forces used for certain missions. SAS are like CIA and Special Forces combined. I wanna read more about SAS.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Prior to Vietnam the SAS had (Ithink) the first 'hunter killer' teams. The SEALs followed thattactic in Vietnam. While staging from bases, they would drop in unexpectedly in different places to gather or kill their target. That concept has now grown in the US with Delta Force as well. Probobly numbers around 5-10 thousand. CIA has their own group. I read where prior to 9/11 there were 200, and has grown significantly since then. Mostly prior SF/SEAL troops
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 CIA personnel would be used where deniability or very low profiles are needed for political purposes. SF/SEALs are subject to the Geneva convention and must use those rules as well as being subject to being listed as a POW. Not necessarily CIA, although they have rules of their own.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 SEALS is supposed to be under the US Navy but if they are used by the CIA, they do not operate under the chain of command. CIA operates under POTUS alone which gives them jurisdiction (dunno if this is the right term but you get my drift) over all other US military forces and local police. For example in Afghanistan, ISAF must obey ROE but CIA and Special Forces under them have their own ROE which is probably secret again also. LOL
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR All Special Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) fall under USSOCOM led by a four star general who reports to the Sec Def then POTUS. CIA 'Special Activities Section' report to the Dir CIA then POTUS. While the two work together often, the Chain of Command must be followed. USSOCOM members are not allowed to do undercover work. CIA can. ROE change from mission to mission, my guess is both get instructions as to what can be done or not done each time.
gerry301 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I looked up Peter Harcleodes book, Fighting dirty. Apparently it got poor reviews and was rated as such. One commentor said they couldn't get past three chapters, another stated a lot of research but of little historical value. So thanks for the reference, but I doubt I will read it.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 I hardly ever listen to reviews because they are biased and how would the reviewer know what I am interested in anyway? Maybe they thought it was "of little historical value" because it condenses over a hundred years of covert wars into one book, from the Balkans to Afghanistan. But that's what the references are there for if you want to investigate it further. No one source will tell you the whole story but if u stop reading or doing research, you will never advance your knowledge
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR My interests are mostly with the Vietnam war. I was there, my friends were there. In my little piece of Vietnam it was hard to say what it was all about. And my friends were in the field so often, they were lucky if they knew what day of the week it was. So thats where my interest was born. Have you read 'Street without Joy' by Bernard Fall? Considered the best history of the French indochina war. Very good, still a best seller after 50 years. I read every day, perhaps a book a week.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 I try to keep up on military affairs as it has become a hobby of mine. Lucky me I'm retired and now have the time. At the time the Gulf conflict, Iraq, and now Afganistan (by the way there are probobly 50-100 'bases' now in Afganistan). I also enjoy military technology, and Militaryt history, so I try to keep up.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 I read so many Vietnam War books. My fave are WE WERE SOLDIERS, THE KILLING ZONE by Frederick Downs, SEAL Team Men of the Trident, A Sniper in the Arizona, Blood Trails, My Secret War. Do you know APOCALYPSE NOW, HAMBURGER HILL, and PLATOON were shot in Philippines? I visited HCM City in 2009, toured the Cu Chi tunnels and all museums. My father-in-law served in Vietnam 1965-69 with the Philippine forces there. Did u visit Subic and Clark AFB here in the PH (its no longer the PI)?
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I saw every Vietnam war movie ever made. Enjoyed platoon. The music 'adagio for strings(?)' is considered the saddest music ever written. Read a number of Spec Forces books. Enjoyed SOG. Everybody loves the SF soldiers yet they mostly did recon. It was the Marine or Soldier on the ground who had to dig the enemy out. Favorites were 'Blackjack 33', and 'Blackjack 34'. True stories wriiten by the team medic. Well written. I only passed thru Clark AB in transit to Vietnam from Taiwan.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Fyi, the FIGHTING DIRTY book focus on covert wars, no conventional battle stories, while glossing over historical events (basically summarizes the background for context) it details covert operations, their names, leaders, mission objectives, assets used, how many they killed, etc. basically its secret stuff that Americans were not aware of. You were told the Vietnam war started in 1965 for America but actually America started killing Vietnamese 10 years before. Not interesting huh?
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I don't remember anyone telling me when the war started. Where do you get the idea that Americans are told what to believe and then believe it? This is a country where a president can't even get a blowjob in his own office without it being blabbed all over the media, with discussions as to whether it was right or wrong and what technique did she use. You should have said when North Vietnamese began killing South Vietnamese 10 years before. Very interesting, I think.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 I can see you didn't read about Ngo Dinh Diem, Edward Landsdale and Ho Chi Minh yet, they are in Wikipedia. At first, Viet Minh was battling the French. When French lost 1954, US took over, at first covertly then overtly in 1965. Diem was assassinated and South Vietnam became one military dictatorship after another. So your "South Vietnam" was never really a democracy. US didn't care to give Vietnam its independence. It wanted a puppet state like what the French had.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR When the French lost in 1954, the UN divided the country. The French left and the struggling government of South Vietnam asked for help in training its army as well as military aid. Diem rejected the call for elections between the north and south and held rigged elections of his own. The US didn't like Diem and he behaved like an idiot, but the US also saw it as a quest by the communists to take over the country so they stayed for that reason. Similair to Sygman Rhee in Korea.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Nice try, but I suppose you'd have to call South Korea, Japan, Germany, etc puppet states as well. Vietnam had no value to the US except as a bastion agaist communism at the time.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 I think the US prolonged the war in Vietnam for another 20 years which cost US taxpayers over a trillion dollars and millions of Vietnamese dead and maimed. If the US hadn't intervened 1954, there would have been a civil war. That civil war was postponed to 1972 when the US left and South Vietnam fell shortly after. US opened diplomatic relations with China 1979 then with Vietnam 1995. So much for the "fear" of communism and the 58,000 American lives in Vietnam.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Lets not get carried away. The 'war' really didn't get underway until 1965. With smoke but no real fire until then. I don't believe the US expended 'a trillion' dollars as it was costing about 5 billion a year at the time. One can easily say that the dead were the result of Ho Chi Minh invading the south. How long is appropriate before opening up relations with another country? Pehaps you should have told Russia that as well. You should ask the South Vietnamese who were 're-educated.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 I'm surprised you're a soldier yet u do not understand when war "starts". War starts when political leaders mobilize armed forces to attack each other. USS Saipan and 37 pilots of the CIA's airline CAT supported the French in Dien Bien Phu 1954. 7 of those pilots were recently awarded the French Legion Of Honor in 2005. Look that up too.
Military spending 1965-75 was $828B 1975 dollars which is $5trillion 2008 dollars (not all was Vietnam War)
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Those forces were mobilized after the 'Gulf of Tonkin' resolution, shortly thereafter the US marines landed in Danang (1965) as base security. Prior to that the US had military advisors. According the the Congressional research service the cost of the Vietnam war was $111 billion;, or $738 billion in 2011 dollars.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 that same CRS report is only an assumption that ONLY 20% of the TOTAL military spending 1965-75 was spent for the Vietnam War. $828B was the TOTAL US military cost for 1965-75. However 20% is conservative because LBJ stripped European units of their ordinance and personnel for the Vietnam War. Figure out the cost of over 3,100 aircraft lost and 830,000 servicemen suffered PTSD, 58k kia, 150k 21k disability, makes your $111B look ridiculous.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Sorry, I thought a Congessional report would be better than rumor and uninformed opinion.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 documented US losses and casualties reports are "rumor and uninformed opinion"? you have other sources to dispute my facts and figures? the CRS report is an assumption, there is no "cost center" in the accounting rules of the US military to record expenses specifically for the Vietnam War. Try totaling aircraft losses alone is well over $15B. They say American taxpayers are still paying for the debt from the budget deficit incurred during the Vietnam War.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR A Congressional research would probobly be the best sourse in determining the cost of the war. If you disagree and want to use other sources its up to you. You have been consistantly seeing what you want to see and looking for ideas that support your own opinion of what the war was about. We seem to disagree. I suspect that will not change either of our opinions.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 "seeing what I want to see"? That's funny cuz most of my education, facts, opinions and sources is from US/UK media, former military and govt sources. the whole idea about searching for the truth is looking at all sides, not just a few sources. U admit "few of u knew what was going on" at the time but its not an excuse anymore to be ignorant with all the analysis and documents available. But I respect ur opinion and my job is not to sell u anything just to make people aware
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR You also have to remember the Viet Minh lost their popularity after the French left and were dispised for their tactics of terror in the countryside against those they considered counter revolutionaries. They fell apart and the NLF (Viet Cong) were created and supported by Ho to take their place. Not exactly a popular movement of the people.
gerry301 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gerry301 Even before French left, the CIA under Edward Landsdale was organizing covert action teams for deployment in North Vietnam where they would carry out assassination, sabotage and other clandestine missions. CIA spread lies that North Vietnamese were killing Catholics and attacking South Vietnam, moved arms and explosives shipments to the North, recruited 40,000 Hmong mercenaries by 1959. As a result, the NVA retaliated. So the US started the war but the North finished it.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR So the US actually attacked North Vietnam and they only retaliated in self defense. Thank you for providing me information that apparently no one else has ever known. Its beer time so if you like we can talk tomorrow. Have a nice day? Night?, Evening? Morning?
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 hehe I'm back. yes, I got that info in FIGHTING DIRTY but I'm pretty sure u can find other sources in the internet. Things is, in the 70's we only had TV radio or print to tell u what was going on. Today, especially with the Freedom Of Info Act plus many military-turned-journalists we can get a lot of info that will corroborate many allegations and stories. Americans may have believed Vietnam was a war against freedom but it wasn't. It was pure US greed
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I agree the information available on the internet is awesome. The Americans believed the war in Vietnam was against communism. The same way as the war in Korea was. It lost popularity due to antiwar protests and the registration for the draft. Many young men did not want to be drafted and the antiwar movement grew significantly. The media sells papers by giving the populace what they want, so the reporting became unfare and unbalanced as well. It still exists today.
gerry301 2 months ago
@AccordGTR The US stock market (Dow industrial avg) in 1965 was at 918 pts, in 1975 it was at 821. Not what you would call an industrial boom and certainly not a good time for this country.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 ...so fact is, US was fighting, not because of the Vietnamese people, but for US power over rivals, USSR and China, and control of the seas and resources. The protection and unification of Vietnam was secondary to US interests. If the US could not install a govt it THOUGHT friendly to itself other than China/USSR, then it would undermine that govt through any means. Thus was the US foreign policy at that time up to this day.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Wrong conclusion. The US was fighting against a communist insugency from the North led by Ho Chi Minh. Ho was an avowed communist even when the US supported him against the Japanese.
To say the US was fighting against rivals and then say they were afraid of China and Russia entering the war makes no sense. Again fighting for Vietnams resources is like fighting for Koreas oil.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 OK so answer me this, if US was in Vietnam fighting a communist insurgency, why is it doing business with the same communists (China, Vietnam) today? What has changed?
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Could be for the same reason the US does business with Japan, Germany, Russia, and even England. Times change and the trade is good for all. I don't think that is the argument. Why do we send troops to the PI?
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Nope. US beat Japan and Germany and occupied them so those hostile govts are dead. Russia is no longer communist. War with England was over 200 years ago. The Cold War was really about furthering American corporate interests, not about freedom and liberty for people. The communist domino theory was propaganda to justify war. The real objective is American imperialism. If you study geoplitical and military history from 1870's to present, you will understand what I am saying.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Now you are getting way off track. No I am not a conspirocy minded person with delusions of secret societies of people plotting to run the world. But if you enjoy the drama, go right ahead. To me the world is hard enough to keep track of without James Bond, Bloefeld and Dr No.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Uh, you deny the US has lots of secrets? Why does it have to have a Freedom Information Act if it doesn't keep many secrets. Fact is, a lot of secrets have been kept from Americans but thanks to the internet, this is rapidly changing. Even with the new technology, the US govt still tries very hard to keep secrets. But some people don't have the time or the inkling to seek the truth. They get upset when their view of the world is challenged.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Why on earth would I deny the US has lots of secrets. So does Switzerland, Leichenstien, and the Vatican as well. They are diplomatic, Business, and military. I was in the military long enough to be part of some and knew of others. Believe me, most secrets would bore you to death. At least the US has a program to release most of this data. I think Jukian Arange helped greatly with his release of diplomatic documents. They were boring, and for the most part inocuous.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 haha Switzerland doesn't have over 700 military bases around the world or topple sovereign govts, supports dictators or invade other countries. you really have this rosy view of the US govt huh? For you, Julian Assange "helped" but are you at all aware the US Justice launched an investigation and is planning charges? the Wikileaks diplomatic leaks were boring to you but they are a sensation everywhere else. US Ambassador to the Philippines was highly embarrassed they moved her out
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I doubt the 700 military bases around the world quote was ever true, and having been to 23 different countries during my time of service, I suspect a very large number of those 'bases' are like a few I served at. In a trailor, on a hill, running a radar, or downloading satellite data. Total # people 10 or less. Ramstein AB in Germany probobly had as many as 10-15 such 'bases, for communication, satellite tracking etc. Did you think these bases were going to take over the world?
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 A trailer is not a military base. Check Google for the list. Germany alone has 57 US Army bases listed in Google and that's not including the USAF bases. Its not how many people are based there . In fact it could be empty of American personnel as in the case of Saudi Arabia which has "an advanced American military infrastructure" including stockpiles of "U.S.-manufactured war materiel and U.S.-trained personnel' ready for American soldiers to use when needed.
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I did look it up, and apparently the same page on wikipedia as I counted 57 as well. However that should be qualified as 12 of those places being housing areas or munition/ storage depots.(I went to one once and it was run and cared for by German Nationals.) Also Landsthule Hospital. While I guess it could be classed as a base, I doubt its a threat to anyone. I worked on a hill about 1/2 mile from there. It was difficult to look up all the others. Ansback army base was one building.
gerry301 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I am aware the US Justice system is thinking about charges. However its a political football and politicians are afraid (again) of doing anything less they lose votes in the next election (How are the politicians in your country?). Personally I'd like it more if the Russian FSB took Assange out. Maybe we could hire them. In the interests of Detante' of course. Again, not much other than someone embarrasing someone else. Really. No, I do not have a rosy view of my elected leaders.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 have you heard about Daniel Ellsberg? Read it in Wikipedia. In 1971 he released top secret documents about the Vietnam War that JFK and LBJ lied to the public. He considers Assange and Pfc. Bradley Manning (the guy charged with releasing the video about Apache helicopter killing Reuters cameramen and children in Iraq) modern day heroes. Again, history repeats itself. Did u know that Vietnam War tactics like hamletting, search and destroy, water torture were developed in the PH-US WAr?
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR I have no doubt Ellsberg considers Assange and Manning heros, probobly has a picture of Jane Fonda on his wall as well. Saw the vid on the Rueters killing. I believe the crew was exonerated. Familiar with Phoenix program, search and destroy, waterbording etc.. Never heard of hamletting. I'll have to look it up. Search and destroy, my goodness. Search for the enemy, find the enemy, and destroy the enemy. Its common to do so during war.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Apache crew was exonerated by the US military. How can you investigate yourself?
Hamletting means moving the peasants to concentration camps like the Nazi's did, only this was the Philippines in 1899. The idea being to deny the VC soldiers to recruit. In the PH 200,000+ died.
No, search and destroy means burning the crops and villages denying the enemy food and shelter then moving out the peasants to concentration camps only the Americans called it hamlets. Nice huh?
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@gerry301 I was on a couple of investigation boards in the Airforce. They were professionally conducted and findings were what the facts indicated. I know the media loves a good witch hunt and will disregard all facts as long as they get someone to hang. But the military operates acording to the rules of law and justice. Yes, if you search long enough you can find exceptions, but they are few and far between.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 I believe you are talking about relocation of farmers in rural areas. And yes it was done to protect the farmers from the VC as well as clear large areas for military operations. (Limit casualties). Don't remember the media calling them concentration camps, although I'm sure they would have reported it if they were at the time as the media was very negative on US actions in Vietnam. And no, search and destroy was not about burning crops and villages.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Concentration camps, hamletting- just semantics, means forced migration and detention. Don't forget the US also had concentration camps in California and other states for American-Japanese in WW2 which was very shameful. In 1979 Brzezinski (Carter's SecState) called Islamic Extremists in Afghanistan FREEDOM FIGHTERS. Barely 15 years later they were called terrorists. In 1948 Zionist orgs like Irgun were viewed as terrorists. Then they became Likud Party and aliies of the US. Semantics
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Nice, but your arguments are becoming irrational. You have now gone from Vietnam, to WWII, to the Russian Afgan war, to the Israeli conflicts, in one comment. Thanks for an interesting dialog and discussion on the Vietnam war. I enjoyed it. Have a nice day.
gerry301 2 months ago
@gerry301 Irrational? If u look at my first comment to u, it was about understanding other people and US foreign policy...u cannot do that if only look at one or few events and listen to propaganda. U need to look at the patterns in history and listen to people who spent more time than u researching. Kinda silly to be discussing one's own opinions if it is based on a limited amount of knowledge. I know u r only interested in the Vietnam War since that was Your war. Nice talking to u anyway
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@gerry301 Sure but u cannot separate military discipline from human rights abuses. Just cuz u wer following orders doesn't make it right. That's what Germany heeded to learn during the Third Reich. Nowadays you don't have much to go before finding all kinds of US human rights abuses. I could spend all day sending all the links to you but I don't think that would make much difference to you. "Enemies are necessary for the wheels of the US military machine to turn" John Stockwell, former CIA Chief
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@gerry301 ...Amb. Kenney was well-loved here throwing parties and attending socials making friends with the rich and powerful then Wikileaks revealed she was sending Washington reports about confidential matters and her personal opinion on top politicians here. Now no country will trust any American Ambassador because they spy on their host country and tell lies. haha yah right, pretty boring stuff for you maybe!
AccordGTR 2 months ago
@AccordGTR Really? And what do you think the embassies of China, Russia, and Vietnam do? Go to church and whip themselves in repentance for their sins everyday. The information was a bonanza for the news media who drank it all in scanned the informaqtion for days to sensationalize anything that could be had. And all they got was 'embarrasing comments'. The media drooled over the prospects of finding dirt, and all they got was?
gerry301 2 months ago
North Vietnam cannot defeat or humiliate the United States. Only Americans can do that.
RICHARD NIXON, speech, Nov. 3, 1969
Hellfromtheskyfilms 8 months ago
America went there to protect south Vietnam and to establish democracy there. not to gain money or anything like that. So shut the fuck up if you dont know shit
LoganKorey 8 months ago
@Thedarkcountry yes when i could be bothered looking for them i hate these glorifying war mongers here you dont see any vietnamese war videos posted by asians now do you thats because we are peaceful people where as the usa all march around military like looking for their next war to be heroes in ,you are one sick country dude
endracismguy 8 months ago
@endracismguy We document wars because those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. And to say asians don't make war documentaries is ignorant and stupid.
Nakor420ish 8 months ago
americans never give the world a chance for world peace to start think of that idiot
endracismguy 9 months ago
anyone who disses our troops is an asshole because all these guys did was fight for their country and got spit on back home. support our troops
rockfan7777 9 months ago
my grandfather told me he killed 75 american invaders he is a true hero to us because the american had all the best of weapons he also told me most of them were cowards who ran from them and cry like babys when captured he was not a communists he was just protecting his family and country from american murderers who killed women and childs and bomb villages full of inocents to make us afraid americas are the war monger terrorist trash of the world
endracismguy 9 months ago
@endracismguy yeah bitch stop lying, tell grand father to suck a dick and stop belivieing everything u fuckin here cock sucker
FlickDaFingers 9 months ago
@endracismguy That's BULLSHIT. Very few americans commited those crimes, and the ones that did went to jail. The vietcong and the NVA raped and killed children right in front of their parents. They killed innocent people every day. So FUCK you.
Nakor420ish 8 months ago
They admitted the gulf of Tonkin incident was FAKE! So no wonder people are mad because the army fought for some corrupt bankers and not for their freedom or their country! And yes i know i;m a lazy basterd behind the computer but that's not even an comparisment when you talk about a LYING goverment!
Kruizlinx 9 months ago
When someone says a Vietnam veteran died for no reason, it's not usually meant as a personal insult. If anything, it's a comment on the heart-wrenching tragedy of losing one's life for a bunch of power hungry politicians who exploited the military to meet their own needs.
hyperfocus 9 months ago
Ordered to battle in distant lands by distant men, slaughtered on mass in the raging fires of war, in the unforgiving mire of the Vietnamese jungle. Man and machine welded together by blood. Bones crushed, men broken as death joys above watching the brilliant spectacle of destruction and debris. Such is the nature of man that he creates beauty in both creation and in death, and what beauty to see millions wilfully march to annihilation. To brand the very land with the stamp of death. Such is man
ImaginedWriter 9 months ago
@Igman2020 i think that's what he meant.
13hason13 9 months ago
This usa bitch. This a noob.
MrEnona 10 months ago
Hats off to all the boys who fought in Vietnam. From Canada--with love!
PlainzRyder 10 months ago
good upload...
TheAmericanArm 10 months ago
2 mln civilians died ....
VIXI2008 10 months ago
7:22 - 7:46
Is that the TET Offensive?
squirlysquirly969 10 months ago
watch this compilation: watch?v=_J7YxVdERvk&feature=channel_video_title
Damonmav 10 months ago
Fuck america!
madonnafc 10 months ago
wish i could join such war
Kominex 10 months ago
TH ewhole War was stupid fuck vietnam
SuperSnoopy1991 10 months ago
FOR ANY VETS THAT SEE THIS COMMENT: I want to thank you for your service and understand that I am not one of the yellow bellied hippie coward piece of shit fucks that downed you guys. I appreciate you guys and would shake your hand if I ever met you in person. ((PEOPLE))- We need to seek out VETS, shake their hands, buy them lunch, give them a hug. It helps them heal and it let's them know that we care. Thanks VETS!!
NoMAIG 11 months ago
How selfish we are! We always wine at the 58163 KIA, we never shed a tear for the 5million we killed there! How selfish we are shame on us.
Backin65 11 months ago
@Backin65 Are you crazy or what? You maybe are a damn commie wannabe.
dover357 11 months ago
@dover357 That's exactly the uneducated dumb remark I was expecting, keep plying the same "oh you liberal" or "you commy" retorts, you lack compassion and are a paranoid militia rebel flag waving douche.
it doesn't hurt once in a while to shed a tear for something other than America, you selfish shit, I doubt you care about Japan right now! Get the fuck outta my country!
Backin65 10 months ago
@Backin65 Sounds to me that you may have a personal problem with your boyfriend.
dover357 10 months ago
@dover357 sounds to me like you jelous my post at the top! Eat shit Teen douche. Go serve, till then STFU!
Backin65 10 months ago
u k now we would of won the war if the fucking hippies and people stop protesting. for every one american death we lost in that war the viets lost 10.
RealTxhim 11 months ago
omg thats my grandfather 2:05
xXagu1rreXx 11 months ago
where did you get this footage? Is it legit? It looks it, but I'm not sure.
marvelmax03191 1 year ago
american you sucker!!!!why?why you invate us?!sucker!!!
Vietnam117able 1 year ago
@Vietnam117able cus yo ass was taking over my country fool! we needed aid and USA saved our butts -Cambodian Kid.
4BANGINCIVIC 11 months ago
@Vietnam117able they wanted to save South vietnam maybe ?
killerrj8 11 months ago
@killerrj8 save south vietnam from what???
Vietnam117able 7 months ago
@Vietnam117able the communism from the north
killerrj8 7 months ago
@Vietnam117able them self?
gfgcito 7 months ago
Vets kill inocents, y dont insult them, because is the goberment but they kill or make amage to vietnam eople like in the video of the girl burn whit napalm and how the mother charge his child die whith his skin burn.
zerozi32 1 year ago
@zerozi32 it was the ARVN who dropped the napalm in that video but yes many innocent people did lose their lives at the hands of GI's
Metallica1273 11 months ago
One of the guys is turning pale from his wounds bleeding for good old US of A and for his buddies. Yeah I know how it feels and the PTS that comes later. These guys did a good job and it was worth it. The other side suffered worse casualties. None but the brave. I was in the service but here in my country we have a low intensity conflict. Yeah I saw guys die here too but not like that in the video.
oneshotonekillify 1 year ago
when you´ve fought in a war, and went through hell,it doesn´t matter what side you fight,you lost your friends, your life,your youth.............the only ones who win a war are those who never fought
rod3067 1 year ago 49
@rod3067 not really true... of course it is but if your drilled years jsut to kill (like the marines) you maybe dont care about their enemies
killerrj8 11 months ago
@killerrj8 i couldn´t really tell man, i´ve never been in service and hope i never will
rod3067 11 months ago
@rod3067 i mean if u were in the army in war and drilled to kill maybe u just want to get your ass saved
killerrj8 11 months ago
@rod3067 That was Genocide not War You used chemical weopens (Agent Orange Veitanam) and Napam Bombs
shadowofears 6 months ago
@shadowofears what do you mean with "you"?, americans? i'm not american
rod3067 6 months ago
Just to let you know my view in comparison from vietnam to afghanistan was removed by the feds.ssdewayne
ssdewayne 1 year ago
defeat
bomamorimbom 1 year ago
this video isnt about a video game. Its about an actual war, were actual people died. Please show some respect.
dofalaooger 1 year ago
the vietnam war had guns from Black ops and World at war
TheFusion1993 1 year ago
Everyone who has insulted the Vets on this video or any other, I want you to go find a Vietnam Vet. I want you to look him in the eye, and tell him he lost his legs for nothing. Tell him his best friend since grade school died for no reason. Find a widow of a soldier, tell him her husband is rotting away in an unmarked grave in a distant jungle, gave his life for nothing. Do it. I dare you.
warpeace11 1 year ago 110
@warpeace11 thank you, someone gets it. god bless
dofalaooger 1 year ago
@warpeace11 Ill do it.
Cause im not form the US and A im resistent for the Propaganda.
Jaswicis 1 year ago
@warpeace11
why for nothing?
They gave their lives to let capitalists make more money on this war
Scoutrussp7 1 year ago
@warpeace11 Respect for all of them, for Vets and Vietcong, but what they died for?
unoakaso 1 year ago
@warpeace11 the very very sad truth is they did die for nothing. if you can please tell me what they died for?
sniperusg50 11 months ago
@warpeace11
Yeah it would be fairly terrible to do that, but the fact is they did die for nothing. And they killed a whole lot more for nothing. In a way the vets as well as the people they slaughtered were both victims of a giant propaganda machine that is the American regime.
Ortheos2006 11 months ago
@warpeace11 I am a Vietnam era vet, my father was a veteran of WW II (10 months in a German POW, Korea and Vietnam--twice--and my son is currently serving and is an Iraq War vet. My father retired because he was going to be sent back to Vietnam for a third time and when I was drafted, he strongly advised me not to go to Vietnam because it was a politician's war and we were going to lose it. I lost many of my friends from high school and their names are on the wall. They died for nothing.
edpgsa 10 months ago
@warpeace11 i do agree with you in many, the vietnam war was a waste of time and lives. when i served over in norway i did have a reason for the fighting, keeping civilians safe was my priority from the czechs
Agentorange1987sep28 9 months ago
@warpeace11 well I am one of the worlds biggest supporter of war vets, but if the guy had no legs, what would I have to fear??
96Mauser 9 months ago
@96Mauser you'd have to worry about him rolling after you and kicking your ass!
13hason13 9 months ago
@13hason13 No, I don't think that would happen.
96Mauser 9 months ago
@warpeace11 What was it for? Maybe younger people or even some people who were around then aren't sure why we were there and lost all those lives. Tell me why because it isn't talked about much in our media or history books and it's not covered in school. Nothing against soldiers because they did their jobs without complaint and pay the most. But, politicians get us into wars like Vietnam and the current Afghan war and they seem to be for no good reason.
Jermybug 9 months ago
@warpeace11 The DID die for no reason, because the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a LIE. They TRICKED us into believeing there was a threat there, when there wasn't. So when people say it was for no reason, it's not to insult the troops, it's to say they died in vain. Which they DID. There was no reason for us to ever have been there in the first place. All those men should never have lost their lives, because even though they THOUGHT they were fighting for freedom, they weren't.
Nakor420ish 8 months ago
@warpeace11 They simply fought and died so Kellog Brown and Root and other contracters could make a profit.
Nakor420ish 8 months ago
@warpeace11 couldn't say it any better myself
gleetron 7 months ago
@warpeace11 i was born in 88 and am no historian - honest question, what was the reason?
from the little I have seen, it seems this war wasn't fought to protect the country when threatened (unllike, say, the world wars). it seems to me like it was done to further the interests of some pig politicians, like modern day iraq/afghanistan. that to me really does seem pointless and is not something I would sacrifice life or limb for. if that's true, then whether it upsets vets/relatives is irrelevant.
jimmyshitbags 7 months ago
@jimmyshitbags plain and simple it was to prevent the spread of communism. During the "cold war" it was communism vs capitalism, and south vietnam was capitalistic whereas north vietnam was communistic.
Pashen91 7 months ago
@warpeace11 The USA is crazy
I am a Vietnam Mam
thanhobe 6 months ago
I was a student in Vietnam and I think you should go back and find the team goes, he fought and are there waiting for you to bring him home, you have to fight our real brave and heroic, the warrior you are, go back we will help you,
thanhobe 6 months ago
@warpeace11 bro thank you. an actual fellow american
usabro410 6 months ago
@warpeace11 Yes they died for nothing but evil They killed innocent women and childrens and they deserve to be punished Truth is always painful i will say this by looking in his eyes but can he face his victums No never
shadowofears 6 months ago
@warpeace11 its not the vets i insult its every president under the vietnam ere except JFK i insult!
Sonny0612 5 months ago
@warpeace11 There are no shortage of keyboard 'heros' - they won't do anything like this because by nature they are clearly cowards.
alanheath 5 months ago
@warpeace11 but the fact is... they died for nothing... thats... just a fact... thats sad, but it is what it is
vidukas111 5 months ago
shout outs to the record man... hahaha!
LiLJAM3Z 1 year ago
the war suck!!!
to ecepcion in the games
xBryanAM7x 1 year ago
This video was taken from the movie,I forgot the name
KPKonliner 1 year ago
*sigh*
well at least 'one' good thing came out of this Vietnam War and the United State's involvement in it.
CoD: Black Ops.
So entertaining, yet so cruel, Damn you history.
austenkruse 1 year ago
@austenkruse Shut up you worthless bastard.
ThePointinDog 1 year ago
@ThePointinDog
get the hell out of here, unless you think there any actual good things that came out of this shitty war. Then cmon, lay them on me you asshole. Everybody knows this war was a catastrophic failure and we shouldn't have been fucking around in Vietnam.
austenkruse 1 year ago
@austenkruse Did I say anything good came out of the war in my post? NO! I'm sick of this COD shit.
ThePointinDog 1 year ago
@Th