@ElderSwami "hey elder joseph is this book for sale?" It's a printable download. I'll email it you if you 'you tube email me' an email address. It's got the main points of discussion for when missionaries turn up. lol
I stil can't quit comprehend what I have discovered in the LDS closet! Heads in Hats!!!!!!! hahah
@gingernutpreacher Yes Mormons have Theology and Belief which teaches that Negroes are the less valiants and that White Skin is a sign of righteousness and that Mormon God 'Elohim' is a white skinned man having eternal sex with mulltiple wives.
@gingernutpreacher Yes, It was Brigham Young that started the Ban on blacks in the LDS temple shenanigans after coming up with the less valiants theology, most likely from reading the Book oF Mormon where white skinned Israelites supposedly turned dark skinned for disobediance to Mormon God.
There is also a passage in POGP somewhere which mentions dark skin as being cursed tp the Priesthood or something. I can't t remember. Its all BS from Joseph Smiths rear end basically anyway.
@gingernutpreacher Pearl Of Great Price. It contains other stories Joseph Smith made up. JS History, Book of Moses and Book Of Abraham.
The JS Histroy has been 'altered' from the original to hide something from members and investigators. No suprise there, to those of us who have discovered its a fraud.
Bornagainstmormon is likely just a mentally ill LDS church member. There are quite a few of them. Be careful.
@ElderJoseph the missionares wouldn,t give me pearl of great price or d&c said i wosn,t ready for it beacuse i wodn,t br baptised please excuse my spelling
Yes thats typical. Unfortunately they just wanted a baptism from you because they are under pressure to achieve targets like sales people. The LDS missionary system is run EXACTLY like a sales operation.
Once baptised the missionaries don't give much of a damn as they move on to the next victim.
@ElderJoseph i went through about 3 paris . 6 missionars some of them were nuters some of them cared about jesus one mixed rase lad. elder sutherland told me uter rubbish about the curse i don,t think he was liying he gust bin told porkeas if i knew then what i know now i would of given him a scripturel kicking .
Yes Missionaries are just manipulated and deceived themselves. They know nothing about religion and are not qualified at all to go door to door trying to befriend people into joining a lying cult from Salt Lake.
elderjoseph@hotmail.co.uk and i'll send you the original JS history from Times and Seasons which has been altered in our versions( so as not to shock or concern readers today).
I ended up Athiest. Mormonism helped me with that..
Joseph Smith was really an Athiest in my opinion, but a criminally minded one who saw he could exploite people with religion.
He saw how people needed to believe in something and would do anything for salvation. So he took their money, their wives and their daughters all in the name of God and their supposed salvation.
The next cult leader Brigham Young was a dictator IMO.
@borntoloop I'd find this handy for bog roll too, all it's doing is slagging off my church. If you'd have watched the video instead of jumping in as usual you'd have realized this.
@kakadoobs How is it slagging off 'your church' ? It's a useful tool for discussing the church with Mormon Missionaries ( ie kids with black badges - totally unqualified uneducated and ill equipped for discussing religion). They don't even know their own religion and/or history. They pass on false and DUFF information as a a result of being misled themselves.
Cool! I served in the England Leeds Mission. Maybe I came across you or served in a city near you. What city or village do you live in. Wow, I haven't heard that particular accent in so long. Do you remember which Mission President you talked to?
I can't help laughing/smiling. I couldn't believe this gentleman really believed what he was representing was true and authentic. A nice guy with wife and family.
I struggled to believe from the beginning, though I gave it my best and stayed open minded throughout and even tried to convince myself at some stages. But the evidence is totally against the claims of the LDS church.
I served as a missionary in Kingston-upon-Hull, Newton Aycliffe, Worksop, Leeds 5 ward, Bridlington, Horbury (Next to Wakefield), Retford, Leeds 3 ward, Hartlepool and Peterlee. I sometimes visited neighboring areas so we could have crossed paths then. Which ward is Catchment in? Case my two areas in Leeds consisted of a lot of places.
Hey welcome my brother.This would make a great Ensign magazine Article if I got sudden conversion like Alma The Younger.
Do you know the Internet is amazing, we can even comminicate Ezra Taft Bensons grandson and he has some amazing experiences to tell having mingled amongst the LDS Apostles.
I gave up praying to a polygamist Mormon God who its claimed threatened and forced young girls into marrying very old Mormon Leaders.
A mission can be a formative experience, a rite of passage, something to look back on. But don't you also feel sad about that time? If you look at the evidence the mormon church just isn't what it claims to be.
I'm a little sad about my entire Mormon life as a whole. I had good memories on my mission and got to learn about England. I couldn't see myself serving a mission later in life, and I can't in good conscience help convert someone to Mormonism.
Under any system it's OK for a man to have sex with his wife. It is undeniable that JS married many women. Whether or not he actually had sex with any of them is irrelevant. According to the church it was OK if he did. That is the point. Any way you slice it, the church condoned JS sex with women already married to other men.
EJ: please try and come up with some intelligent arguments against the church: as noted below your claims of leaders making money from the church is entirely based on your bigoted opinion of the LDS church and has no basis in fact or even reason!! We're fair game for any kind of doctrinal disagreement I'm not sure why are incapable of focusing your arguments there instead of inane claims and sensationalistic "Enquirer" type videos that really, really make you look terribly desperate.
So Joseph Smith marying other mens wives is not an intelligent argument/concern ?
You think its OK for Mormon Prophets to ask for take followers wives and marry them?
You think its Ok for Mormon Prophets to marry 14 year olds girls when they are aged 37 and 16 year old girls when they are aged 57 as In Orson Pratt's case and many many more similar coercions.
You think its OK to threaten HELL to these girls to make them submit and OBEY thsese cult leaders ?
I think polygamny is a very strange practice: the fact is God permitted a few ancient prophets in the Bible to practice it and also permitted prophets from the restored church to also practice it. I don't understand the concept all that well, but am just glad it does not continue today!!
No reconciliation needed. The Bible does teach there will be many more women in heaven than men. I certainly will not wish polygamy on anyone and I don't know what will happen when I die in regards to additional wives: I doubt it, but again, don't dwell on it. Not all that important to living my life day to day.
2. I believe it as far as it is correctly translated. Please provide me a complete list of everyone involved in translating/copying/editing the original Bible text since the time of Moses: can't do it....hmmm. I can tell you for the Book of Mormon!
3. Polygamy is the core belief of the LDS church???? Oh you are too much EJ, but I guess you've discovered our great secret...we talk/think about polygamy every waking moment, and in between we drink goat's blood.
re isaiah 4:1 there is entirely zero evidence of any of Joseph Smith's wives begging to marry him. They were instead begged cajoled and threatened into it. I don't believe that you have read much if any of the evidence. all scholars i am aware of have significantly changed their testimonies once they read the facts. it is blatantly obvious once you do that joseph smith was up to NO good with his penchant for polygamy. There was no trial of Abraham for him only his followers.
You need to expand your research of scholars: Richard Bushman wrote the most exhaustive biography to date on Joseph Smith, is the most respected historian ever at Columbia University and he did not change his view of Joseph Smith: I accept Joseph for who he claimed to be: an imperfect man called to be God's prophet of the Restoration.
As for threats, they used different language back then and certainly the words can be misconstrued.
read it, heard his testimony, you have apparently not from your comments. i suggest you read "in sacred loneliness" if you have not already. that is more exhaustive than RSR and Compton doesn't try to spin JS' outrageous behaviour either unlike Bushman.
The truth also is you DONT KNOW your church's finances and who is on PAID directorships. It's kept from you. You are expected to pay, pray and obey.
You are never told exactly how the church tithes are used or how much stipends are paid to Apostles and such.
Maybe you should address my Video 'No Paid Clergy' where its shown that LDS clergy in the past at least have been paid and how Thomas Monson managed to have numerous directorships on church companies whilst an Apostle.
Yes, I have admitted as such: but I am not the one out there making claims that I know nothing about. You have been quite adamant that the LDS church leaders take, earn or steal money, yet here you admit to having no source for that: only your own rhetoric.
If you watch my No Paid Clergy Video you may realise that McCraneys source for information about leaders getting paid whether as Apostles on numerous church companies or as Bishops and Stake presidents in the past is
Michael Quinn -. Historian, and Former B.Y.U. Professor who wrote deveral articles for the Ensign Magazine.
And where exactly did Michael Quinn get his information: you have stated repeatedly that the information is "highly secretive". So here comes an anti-Mormon with some axe to grind, spouts off some numbers and you fall for it hook, line and sinker!!! So what is it: is the information secretive and hidden or isn't it??? Again the logic on your arguments is completely off base and shows no validity EJ!!!!
Not sure where you are getting your sources for Brigham Young being a millionairre: please send and I can investigate.
1. No, the church does not lie and deceive: it simply does not focus all that much on the process. It was through revelation and prophetic insight that the translation came about.
2. I comment on this claim elsewhere: there was no sexual contact between Joseph and other men's wives.
3. There is growth and progress in knowledge. Joseph was wrong.
Missionaries told me he was very wealthy and thats why he was able to have lots of wives and afford the upkeep of those widows? hahah( what a saint he was).
1 I was deceived and misled by many in church.
2 You were not in the beds when Joseph was screwing around with mens wives. The wives were and its recorded in the diaries of those who were involved. See Todd Comptons Book.
3 The whole LDS infrastructure taught blacks are the less valiants and its still there amongst my older ward members.
1. Missouri passed a death sentence on every man, woman and child in the LDS faith?? Not sure why you feel in necessary to belittle the suffering many widows went through.
2. How astute of you......however, there is no credible historical source showing Joseph ever was involved sexually with those he entered into polyandry with. I've done my research on that one.
3. Agreed that is there amongst some older people, but older people in general across many religions still hold outdated views.
RE item 2: the only credible evidence needed is in the book of Mormon which states the ONLY reason that polygamy is allowed is for procreation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jacob 2:30. Wriggle out of that one.
Correct: you gave a blanket statement that the only reason for polygamy was for procreation: I assumed you were grouping into that all the polyandry as well. There was no sexual relations there.
And yes, I agree with your statement that the main reason for polygamy is as stated in the Book of Jacob.
I didn't say main reason i said only. jacob 2:30 doesn't provide a second or third option. it clearly states raise up seed or not at all. so JS was breaking the commandments if he didn;t have sex with the women. why are you trying to deny the sex with the polyandrous marriages? does that digust you? would you denounce your belief if it did happen? i doubt it. you would likely come out with some other mind bending explanation. He messed up accept it and move on.
Again, you have 0 historically acceptable proof that Joseph engaged in any kind of sexual contact with other men's wives.....never happened....complete rubbish. The sources that claim such are not reliable. And yes, if such can be proven otherwise, I would put my faith on the line.
well it isn't my intention to destroy people's faith, only to help people understand when they are being duped. If I am wrong then i would be happy to go back to my narrow world view that LDS holds all the truth and JS was a great man. I used to love Knowing i was right. I take it that you have not read In Sacred Loneliness. All the evidence you need is in there. If the church disagrees with it why is Compton still in the church
I wish the church could be what I used to believe it was. if you can find a way for me to believe after all of the things I have learned then i would be grateful. I think this is very unlikely. I believe in God and I believe the LDS church is a good organisation and teaches many true principles I think the bookof mormon is inspired.I love the people of the church.
If faithful mormons were lying that they had intercourse with JS then why weren't they excommunicated? Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384; see Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 15.)
what evidence would you need exactly? you aren't going to be an eye witness now are you?
If you look into that bride, she was a polygamous wife with no marriage to another man. People like to twist what happened with Joseph because he tried to "hide" polygamy. However, Joseph was really no different than you or I. I think he was abhorred by the notion of polygamy at the start and just didn't know how to reveal it. God asked him to begin something very difficult to do: I think it a terrible practice and don't know why God would have him enter that practise (or polyandry).
- Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)
no, nor is polygamy today....both practises I find bizarre and strange. Yet, the fact remains that God had ancient prophets engage in the practice and also had modern day prophets engage in it as well.
There was no physical relationship in a polyandrous marriage.
If you condemn Brigham or Joseph for polygamy, then you must also condemn Abraham, Soloman, David and other great prophets in ancient Bible times. I don't understand it, but I'm not one to criticize ancient or modern prophets.
i condemn joseph smith for being a manipulative cad and bounder. your quibbling with semantic terms does not acquit JS from having sex with multiple women who were married to other men. many of the polyandrists claimed to have had sex with him and were not excommunicated for saying so so why do you persist with this claim. a case in point is sylvia porter sessions the DNA evidence for her daughter Josephine is due to come out this year
Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Twelve Apostles described the process:
"Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine...One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English..... another character with the interpretation would appear"
Published in the Ensign 1993: quoted by an apostle. Care to revise your point #3????
and they still call themselves 'Prophets' when they are only men?
The only Prophets the LDS inc have are in fact PROFITS.
They take every last drop of money they can suck out of a member and even claim that if the member Pays Tithe then they will receive even more Dollars back !
Give us your Mammom and God will magically give you back even MORE Mammom and when he doesn't then don't blame us, blame yourself!
A pathetically bigoted stated EJ. Our leaders do not take any money except for living expenses for those that are in full-time service. Most of given up highly lucrative careers to serve full-time in the church for nothing.
Get your facts straight. Disagree all you want with the doctrine: statements such as the one above clearly show how strange it is you grasp at anything and are unable to engage in healthy debate.
" Our leaders do not take any money except for living expenses for those that are in full-time service. "
I agree with you .I actually meant PROFITS as a corporation and not individual leaders sucking Profits.
However I don't believe they are entirely scarificing as you suggest. The church is very secretive about payments and LDS Apostles and Prophets are known to have made alot of money whilst 'called' being blessed with numerous directorships on church or church linked companies.
So to confirm you are now no longer claiming that the LDS lay ministry makes money? Good, glad to see we're making progress.
As for your second comment: fair enough: neither you or I knows exactly what "living expenses" are and so to claim that they are receiving extra payments is pure speculation, entirely without merit and highly inflammatory.
Yes, the church does own businesses and these businesses produce incomes......wow: what a terrible, terrible thing (sarcasm included!)
It is true that the church teaches that Tithe Payers will be rewarded with DOLLARS.
Conference April 08 Elder Sheldon F. Child
"President Heber J. Grant stated: 'I want to say to you, if you will be honest with the Lord, paying your tithing and keeping his commandments, he will not only bless you with the light and inspiration of his Holy Spirit, but you will be blessed in dollars and cents; "
LDS BIshop Shawn Merriman made claims of huge returns when he defrauded his fellow members.
Your original argument was that people make money off the LDS church. Your note has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with such a claim. The promise is when people pay their tithing, they will be blessed.
As for your referencing Merriman, it is yet more proof of your infatuation with individual failings of some idiots that make mistakes/commit crimes in our church. Guess what: there will be future crimes committed by members (I'm sure if you dig deep enough you'll find some speeding tickets too!)
"As for your referencing Merriman" Merriman is not an isolated case or a failing. Fraud is Common in the LDS church . I have now around 10 recent documented cases of ordinary members being fleeced by these so called worthy and called of God temple Recommend people and how many more are they?
Your flippant remark to equate speeding as some kind of serious crime is stupid unless members drive like dangerous lunatics as well.
Will the church pay back Merrimans tithes to those he defrauded?
I include my flippant remark regarding speeding because you seem so fascinated with the personal failings of members of the LDS church.
Merriman, and others, are indeed isolated. 4 or 5 in with a membership are isolated cased studies, not trends: something you should realize b4 posting your inflammatory posts.
I have 8 serious cases logged being handled by the Law which have come to light and I'm sure many more yet to come. Then there are the child abusers also.
Its no safer to be in the LDS church than any other religion with respect to fraudsters and child abusers.
It seems not even being taught by the only 'directly' led by Christ Prophets and Apostles as oppose to Satans Paid representatives (ie other churches) makes any difference.
I think you've quoted one or 2 child abuse cases out of a worldwide church and you are able to find 8 fraud cases??? Sorry EJ: case studies do not make for general trends.
Don't fool yourself. Child abuse cases in Mormonism are likely no different than any other worldly organisation just as are the fraud cases.
Its a church made up of good people ( the victims) and fraudsters ( the perpetrators who prey on them and abuse them ).
Its Power Of Discernment is completely non existent as rapists and fraudsters are called to serve in responsible positions and they are never detected by The LDS Priesthood but only be worldly police and law.
Please explain the 2 billion dollar shopping mall being built by the LDS Inc. in SLC. What does that have to do with spreading the word of the "one true church"
Was it started because of revelation. The Lord sayeth, "I need a great big shopping mall.....with really expensive condos"
How many times have you copy and pasted this same nonsense.
Its you who may need psychiatric help and I'm not suprised if you spend all that time in LDS mind reform lessons. I couldn't stand any more after two years. I decided to keep my Sanity.
Thats one of the ways we know that you are full of crap, because you are incredibly boring.
The fact that you devote yourself to hating Mormons is the only thing intrestring about you at all.
Watching your Monty Python like rant about Mormons is a bit like watching someone go on and on about 9-11 and how the Jews did it. It's so stupid and twisted that you look the fool.
In the immortal words of Jack Nicolson, You Can't Handle The Truth!"
What makes you think I can't handle the truth? I'm an ex-Mormon, I wonder if Joseph Smith ate some bad mushrooms or was just a liar.
So what "truth" don't I see?
How posting 33 videos, in an attempt to make Mormons look like fools is anything but a strange attempt at revenge. Is that the "truth" I'm missing? That you are really a nice guy?
Or cant you handle the truth that, you are the nutcase.
I'm not obsessed with you, I'm educating you! You seem unable to grasp your own hypocrisy. I'm fascinated (thats two steps below obsessed) with your persistence. You seem a very strong willed person, but also very twisted.
Regarding my being Mormon; read my other notes? Mormons would agree that I'm bound for hell. I'm not afraid of a Mormon God, or hell. I dont think theyre real.
Still that does not make me want to put energy into making Mormons look foolish.
I'm not mad at you, I'm enjoying making you squirm.
I know that exposes something twisted in my personality. But I'm indulging myself because you are just such a good target.
I'm 30 years retired Military and have always had a thing about taking down bullies. Most of the time I hold back, but for some reason there is just something about you. I'm not mad i'm enjoying this.
As a member of the LDS Church, I will be the first to say that there were those within the early days of the Church that were prejudiced, and unfortunately there still may be members who are. No one is surely perfect. Still, I have a testimony that it is the true Church of Christ, led by imperfect people called of God and led through revelation. Mormons as a whole are not racist, nor do we preach anything that is racist in the Church. I would know if not, for I am a colored person myself.
One of the main reasons that I can think of that may explain why the Priesthood was not allowed to blacks in the early days of the Church (though JS actually did ordain a black man to the priesthood during that time before the ban) was surely do to the fact that slavery was still in effect, and it would be unsensical to give blacks the Priesthood while they were still under the rule of a master...it would defeat the purposes of the priesthood and would surely anger their masters.
Polygamy was just as dangerous if not more and the cause of alot of dissent and hate and yet the church leaders were adamant about continuing it come what may.
So the rights of black humans are not as important as polygamy?
The reason blacks were denied the Priesthood was the Curse Of Cain doctrine commenced and taught by Brigham Young and later confirmed and taught continuoulsy for 150 years.
They taught that Blacks were the less valiant spirits and hence denied the Priesthood.
Another reason is that up until the 70s, segregation was common and surely it could almost be seen as a protection to black members due to the fact that if they were to be given the priesthood and active roles in the Church, the persecution would be heaped upon them doubly, as during that time period both blacks and the Church were generally despised and looked down upon.
" Still, I have a testimony that it is the true Church of Christ"
You can have a testimony of anything you like but that doesn't mean the church is what it claims to be.
I have a testimony that its a false church as warned about by Jesus of the New Testament which has taught rubbish to members for 150 years and is trying to sweep its Curse Of Cain/Less Valiants doctrine under the carpet.
The church taught that Blacks are the less valiants hence cursed with a crap circumstance in life.
They were wrong. None of the members are perfect, nor do they totally grasp all of the doctrine, but we learn everything line upon line. If they believe that, than that may have been because they were prejudiced and interpreted doctrine as such. That is unfortunate...however, it does not take away from the fact that the Church is true, and there are plenty of black members who would be willing to testify that to you, prejudices and all.
Hmmm, I just attended 2 days of General Conference......and EJ.....wouldn't you know it.......not one thing you have ever mentioned in single one of your videos, ever, was mentioned by all the church leadership over 2 days of meetings and teachings.
I can't imagine your compulsive desire to speak against everything Mormon has a tinge of bigotry now does it??
dj I heard this same conference already last year twice and twice in the year before that.
"not one thing you have ever mentioned in single one of your videos, ever, was mentioned by all the church leadership over 2 days of meetings and teachings."
Exactly, they don't tell us the real deal.
No one ever mentioned the head stuffed in hat with garden stone inside (the same tool he used for money digs).
Instead they tell us it was a bilical device which came in the box buried by Moroni.
I wouldn't do it klown1975 if I were you and yes they are really missionaries not "Kids who think they are missionaries". Trust me I have a few close relatives that are on missions right now, they aren't "Kids" they have defienatly matured into men
i take it that you have only read fair websites. unfortunately apologist websites can only say things which lead to the answer that "the church is true" rather than just stating the facts. Information is sometimes wrong but if it can be verified by cross referencing and looking at original documents it is believable in my book. Unfortunately the church leaders know that people will leave if they see the facts and think clearly for themselves and aren't intimidated by the fear tactics employed:
Such as calling it anti-mormon literature when its just the facts, telling the members they are on a rocky road to apostacy and damnation if they do look. I only discovered the truth by accident as i was trying to help a friend. If i hadn't i would still be unaware and making a fool of myself trying to defend abhorrent practices. I say this out of love for you. I am willing to speak with anyone privately as i know members are sincere and generally honest
We are taught to think in church and we do think, and we are also taught the truth which you are not giving to everyone. You are not exposing "Mormonism" becuase you really don't have anything to really back it up with. I am not joking, because this is the true church and I don't understand why you are trying to acuse it of these things
you are taught not to look at "anti-mormon" literature and you have clearly obeyed or you would not be saying the things you are. it is even on apologist websites sich as fairmormon dotorg
Learn the true history of the church wrestle with it for about 2 years, try to justify each bit with a tortuous mental contortion, swallow each part down full, accepting it as your faith whilst condoning racism, sexism, paedophilia, sex perversion, murder and then finally vomit it all up, sick with the realisation that you have blackened your own thoughts by conforming to this contorted mess of a belief system. That is enough to make most angry. I don't personally hate the church though
The part that makes most people angry is when they realise that their friends and loved ones are still held in this self mind bending mystic nonsense, that is visibly hurting them. This is only obvious to anyone who has extricated themselves through clear thought and reason.
I'm an ex-Mormon, and yes I have tried to reason with all my family. People don't stay with a religion because of reason or theology, they stay because they are happy with it. Just like in any church. There is much to like about the Mormon Church. Is it true? NO. Are you forced to go? NO! Elder Joseph is a very strange man that wants to justify his inappropriate hate of Mormons! Of all the things one could hate in life, should Mormonism even be on the list?
Remember your efforts are not in vain. It can take a few years for the 'obvious' to click with Mormons. hahaha
They can't help it, they are 'mind conditioned' with the same techniques that sales companies use. How many times have we ourselves believed in 'closing down sales' and the shop is still open later on? lol
The church will and is losing out because it lies and deceives its members and the public alike.
Elder Joseph. I often accidently on purpose try to bump into the Leeds Mormons. Did you ever tell the black brethren in the church about all this? I am black myself you see and I started attending classes with the missionaries. However, I felt they were holding back whenever I talked to them about their history and stuff. I started researching the whole Mormonism thing myself and was disgusted at their views on blacks, masonry, the occult, polygamy, etc. I just gave them a wide birth thereafter
Hi Louie, Good on you. I too go out looking for the missionaries as I won't let them get way with it anymore.
The White American Mormons are the worst for the nonsense that God is a white Exhalted Mormon Man ! lol
For some missionaries its unknown.Many of them are shocked at what I show them.
Keep the pressure on.
My bishop asked me not to tell any of the balck members in church.Though I did tell a few of the newer converts and investigators. they were shocked and rightly so.
holy smoke, you gotta a limey accent! you shoulda warned me. Now, minute 4:20,the black curse is realy Gods blessing: it kept many millions of blacks from becoming mormon. and, yes, millions of white guys have been lost because they were under under the mormon blessing. hate it when that happens...The HIll Cumorah is a glacial Dromlin, not a man made hill. C.L. Tholson,1994 gives excellent evidence of the historical depth of Adam-Good. And Poygamy was prevelant in 19th century Utah.maybe 30%
" it kept many millions of blacks from becoming mormon."
Yea Lucky for those not in the church but for those inside the church they had to face seeing White people supposedly get sealed to their families while they couldn't.
And also had to seek out superior WHITE men to get blessings and spiritual healing, not realising they had the same right and access to any God at the time anyway.
EJ,all so true, but at least they got a blessing! Sort of like Joseph in Egypt, his brothers meant it for evil but God meant it for good. A bunch of Hawaiians moved to Utah in the 1880's as i recall. It didnt go to well. they received their own little community but couldnt make it and died. Their weren't many blacks in Utah. I have an officaial statistic somewhere that shows approx 30 slaves in c. 1860. Jacob Hamblin had 3 or so.
dimtry19 I'm planning on speaking with the Mission President directly about the topics covered in my booklet. I sent him and his wife a copy each.
I'm not happy about the Mormon Church Leadership and the way they are knowingly deceiving people,My missionaries were shocked at what I showed them. They vowed to investigate the church when they got home again.
The ordinary members are sincere, but victims of a deception, Had they lived in Smiths time they would have handed their wives over to him.
1869: the Neutral in the Preexistence Explanation Denied by Brigham Young
When asked if the spirits of Negroes were neutral in heaven, Brigham Young answers, no, they were not, there were no neutral [spirits] in heaven at the time of the rebellion, all took sides. All spirits are pure that came from the presence of God. (Journal History, 25 December 1869, citing Wilford Woodruffs journal.)
All took sides but some WERE LESS VALIANT according to over 100 years of LDS prophets and Apostles teachings.
Brigham Young started the BAN on black skin members being allowed access to the Temple because of them being less valiants. John Taylor taught they were representatives of the devil.
LDS Apostle Mark E Peterson taught that negroes would got to Celestial Kingdom to be servants to WHITE Mormon Gods.
The Unmarried will be servants to the Polygamous WHITE mormon godmen too.
1970: Salt Lake Tribune Reports that David O. Mckay Says there is No Doctrine on Blacks
President David O. Mckay of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was quoted Wednesday as saying as early as 1954 that There is no doctrine in this church and there never was a doctrine in this church to the effect that the Negroes are under any kind of a divine curse.
You forget about the words of Living LDS Prophets and Apostles who taught that blacks were the less valiants and cursed with a dark skin as well as other disadvantages in comparison with WHITE Mormons especially.
What was the point of all those Living Prophets and Apostles leading the church astray then.
Wilford Woodruffs journal also contains the teaching of Brigham Young that Adam is God and took on a body, brought one of his wives to create tabernacles for his own spirit children.
Not only was Cain called upon to suffer [for killing Abel], but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. . . . Millions of souls have
come into this world CURSED with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fulness of the blessing of the Gospel. These are the
descendants of Cain." (The Way to Perfection, by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 101, Genealogical Society of
hey elder joseph is this book for sale?
ElderSwami 4 weeks ago in playlist More videos from ElderJoseph
@ElderSwami "hey elder joseph is this book for sale?" It's a printable download. I'll email it you if you 'you tube email me' an email address. It's got the main points of discussion for when missionaries turn up. lol
I stil can't quit comprehend what I have discovered in the LDS closet! Heads in Hats!!!!!!! hahah
ElderJoseph 4 weeks ago
hi m looking info about your faith could you help me ?
Arshadh72 4 months ago
@Arshadh72 " hi m looking info about your faith could you help me ?" No faith here. Only reality and reason.
I'm sure there are plenty of door knockers and tracters of loads of faiths all claiming to be true that you can ask.
ElderJoseph 4 months ago
thank you for your info! ;) excellent video!
MALDITTOROKKERO 8 months ago
@MALDITTOROKKERO Cheers.lol Mormonism is a farce. Worst still it's a con which has some nasty side effects.
It breaks families up with it's divisive doctrines (which hapen to be baloney anyway).
ElderJoseph 8 months ago
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gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
i agree and a rasist as well. but there will all ways be counterficts to lead us a stray .
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher Yes Mormons have Theology and Belief which teaches that Negroes are the less valiants and that White Skin is a sign of righteousness and that Mormon God 'Elohim' is a white skinned man having eternal sex with mulltiple wives.
lol
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph the stupid thing is black people were at the start of the new testament church acts 13.1 god dosen,t care about skin but the heart
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher Yes, It was Brigham Young that started the Ban on blacks in the LDS temple shenanigans after coming up with the less valiants theology, most likely from reading the Book oF Mormon where white skinned Israelites supposedly turned dark skinned for disobediance to Mormon God.
There is also a passage in POGP somewhere which mentions dark skin as being cursed tp the Priesthood or something. I can't t remember. Its all BS from Joseph Smiths rear end basically anyway.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph two things whats POGP and bornaganstmormon invited me to be friends whats that all about
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher Pearl Of Great Price. It contains other stories Joseph Smith made up. JS History, Book of Moses and Book Of Abraham.
The JS Histroy has been 'altered' from the original to hide something from members and investigators. No suprise there, to those of us who have discovered its a fraud.
Bornagainstmormon is likely just a mentally ill LDS church member. There are quite a few of them. Be careful.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph the missionares wouldn,t give me pearl of great price or d&c said i wosn,t ready for it beacuse i wodn,t br baptised please excuse my spelling
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher
Yes thats typical. Unfortunately they just wanted a baptism from you because they are under pressure to achieve targets like sales people. The LDS missionary system is run EXACTLY like a sales operation.
Once baptised the missionaries don't give much of a damn as they move on to the next victim.
You were very wise not to get baptised.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph i went through about 3 paris . 6 missionars some of them were nuters some of them cared about jesus one mixed rase lad. elder sutherland told me uter rubbish about the curse i don,t think he was liying he gust bin told porkeas if i knew then what i know now i would of given him a scripturel kicking .
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher
Yes Missionaries are just manipulated and deceived themselves. They know nothing about religion and are not qualified at all to go door to door trying to befriend people into joining a lying cult from Salt Lake.
Its basically two years of 'acting' and pretence.
They will say ANYTHING to get a baptism.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph when you say js history has been altered do you know how . i work splits and emergansy cover thats why i reapliy at funny times
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher Email me
elderjoseph@hotmail.co.uk and i'll send you the original JS history from Times and Seasons which has been altered in our versions( so as not to shock or concern readers today).
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph did you get my last 2 Emails i havent herd from you in a few days every thing ok
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher Yes, just been very busy and will get back to you soon as possible.. cheers EJ
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
i allmost became a mormon but trough study i came back to christ how about you
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
@gingernutpreacher
I ended up Athiest. Mormonism helped me with that..
Joseph Smith was really an Athiest in my opinion, but a criminally minded one who saw he could exploite people with religion.
He saw how people needed to believe in something and would do anything for salvation. So he took their money, their wives and their daughters all in the name of God and their supposed salvation.
The next cult leader Brigham Young was a dictator IMO.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
do you know jesus
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
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borntoloop 1 year ago
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borntoloop 1 year ago
@borntoloop I'd find this handy for bog roll too, all it's doing is slagging off my church. If you'd have watched the video instead of jumping in as usual you'd have realized this.
kakadoobs 1 year ago
@kakadoobs How is it slagging off 'your church' ? It's a useful tool for discussing the church with Mormon Missionaries ( ie kids with black badges - totally unqualified uneducated and ill equipped for discussing religion). They don't even know their own religion and/or history. They pass on false and DUFF information as a a result of being misled themselves.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
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borntoloop 1 year ago
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borntoloop 1 year ago
Good discussion.
josephsmythjr 2 years ago
Cool! I served in the England Leeds Mission. Maybe I came across you or served in a city near you. What city or village do you live in. Wow, I haven't heard that particular accent in so long. Do you remember which Mission President you talked to?
Advice4vice 2 years ago
The Mission President was James Woodward .lol
I can't help laughing/smiling. I couldn't believe this gentleman really believed what he was representing was true and authentic. A nice guy with wife and family.
I struggled to believe from the beginning, though I gave it my best and stayed open minded throughout and even tried to convince myself at some stages. But the evidence is totally against the claims of the LDS church.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...is it over yet?
JediMormon 2 years ago
Just saw some some missionaries in our Town Centre and told them the truth about Joseph Smith SCREWING other mens wives.
What a bunch of arsoles they felt. Red faced they were. Poor kids.
They took a copy each of my tract.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I'm in the Leeds England mission catchment area. Let me know which Towns you served .
I think any church member who knows me, watching my channel should know who I am. lol
I was the best investigator ever I reckon.
One of them Golden ones.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I served as a missionary in Kingston-upon-Hull, Newton Aycliffe, Worksop, Leeds 5 ward, Bridlington, Horbury (Next to Wakefield), Retford, Leeds 3 ward, Hartlepool and Peterlee. I sometimes visited neighboring areas so we could have crossed paths then. Which ward is Catchment in? Case my two areas in Leeds consisted of a lot of places.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
hey brother Joseph. you still praying to a God who is practicing polygamy?
wbrunner86 2 years ago
Hey welcome my brother.This would make a great Ensign magazine Article if I got sudden conversion like Alma The Younger.
Do you know the Internet is amazing, we can even comminicate Ezra Taft Bensons grandson and he has some amazing experiences to tell having mingled amongst the LDS Apostles.
I gave up praying to a polygamist Mormon God who its claimed threatened and forced young girls into marrying very old Mormon Leaders.
CTR
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
A mission can be a formative experience, a rite of passage, something to look back on. But don't you also feel sad about that time? If you look at the evidence the mormon church just isn't what it claims to be.
bossendenwoodconvict 2 years ago
I'm a little sad about my entire Mormon life as a whole. I had good memories on my mission and got to learn about England. I couldn't see myself serving a mission later in life, and I can't in good conscience help convert someone to Mormonism.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
Under any system it's OK for a man to have sex with his wife. It is undeniable that JS married many women. Whether or not he actually had sex with any of them is irrelevant. According to the church it was OK if he did. That is the point. Any way you slice it, the church condoned JS sex with women already married to other men.
whizwhitney 2 years ago
EJ: please try and come up with some intelligent arguments against the church: as noted below your claims of leaders making money from the church is entirely based on your bigoted opinion of the LDS church and has no basis in fact or even reason!! We're fair game for any kind of doctrinal disagreement I'm not sure why are incapable of focusing your arguments there instead of inane claims and sensationalistic "Enquirer" type videos that really, really make you look terribly desperate.
djwright44 2 years ago
djwright
So Joseph Smith marying other mens wives is not an intelligent argument/concern ?
You think its OK for Mormon Prophets to ask for take followers wives and marry them?
You think its Ok for Mormon Prophets to marry 14 year olds girls when they are aged 37 and 16 year old girls when they are aged 57 as In Orson Pratt's case and many many more similar coercions.
You think its OK to threaten HELL to these girls to make them submit and OBEY thsese cult leaders ?
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I think polygamny is a very strange practice: the fact is God permitted a few ancient prophets in the Bible to practice it and also permitted prophets from the restored church to also practice it. I don't understand the concept all that well, but am just glad it does not continue today!!
djwright44 2 years ago
" I don't understand the concept all that well, but am just glad it does not continue today!! "
So how do you reconcile that with the beleif that you will be practicing it in CK with the rest of the polygamists including LDS Elohim ?
How do women in church cope seeing widowed Mormon men SEAL their second earthly wives polygamously in temple marriage sealings?
and the church makes people happy ? I didn't see any happy people except a few old men awaiting polygamy to be restored.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
No reconciliation needed. The Bible does teach there will be many more women in heaven than men. I certainly will not wish polygamy on anyone and I don't know what will happen when I die in regards to additional wives: I doubt it, but again, don't dwell on it. Not all that important to living my life day to day.
djwright44 2 years ago
" The Bible does teach there will be many more women in heaven than men."
1 It teaches nothing of the sort.
2 You don't believe its translated correctly, so why pick a verse which you interprete to suit the church doctrine.
3 Polygamy is the core belief of the Mormon Church. Monogomy was frowned upon by early LDS so called self styled LDS prophets and apostles.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
1. Isaiah 4:1
2. I believe it as far as it is correctly translated. Please provide me a complete list of everyone involved in translating/copying/editing the original Bible text since the time of Moses: can't do it....hmmm. I can tell you for the Book of Mormon!
3. Polygamy is the core belief of the LDS church???? Oh you are too much EJ, but I guess you've discovered our great secret...we talk/think about polygamy every waking moment, and in between we drink goat's blood.
Dude....get a life!!!
djwright44 2 years ago
re isaiah 4:1 there is entirely zero evidence of any of Joseph Smith's wives begging to marry him. They were instead begged cajoled and threatened into it. I don't believe that you have read much if any of the evidence. all scholars i am aware of have significantly changed their testimonies once they read the facts. it is blatantly obvious once you do that joseph smith was up to NO good with his penchant for polygamy. There was no trial of Abraham for him only his followers.
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
You need to expand your research of scholars: Richard Bushman wrote the most exhaustive biography to date on Joseph Smith, is the most respected historian ever at Columbia University and he did not change his view of Joseph Smith: I accept Joseph for who he claimed to be: an imperfect man called to be God's prophet of the Restoration.
As for threats, they used different language back then and certainly the words can be misconstrued.
djwright44 2 years ago
read it, heard his testimony, you have apparently not from your comments. i suggest you read "in sacred loneliness" if you have not already. that is more exhaustive than RSR and Compton doesn't try to spin JS' outrageous behaviour either unlike Bushman.
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
The truth also is you DONT KNOW your church's finances and who is on PAID directorships. It's kept from you. You are expected to pay, pray and obey.
You are never told exactly how the church tithes are used or how much stipends are paid to Apostles and such.
Maybe you should address my Video 'No Paid Clergy' where its shown that LDS clergy in the past at least have been paid and how Thomas Monson managed to have numerous directorships on church companies whilst an Apostle.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Yes, I have admitted as such: but I am not the one out there making claims that I know nothing about. You have been quite adamant that the LDS church leaders take, earn or steal money, yet here you admit to having no source for that: only your own rhetoric.
djwright44 2 years ago
If you watch my No Paid Clergy Video you may realise that McCraneys source for information about leaders getting paid whether as Apostles on numerous church companies or as Bishops and Stake presidents in the past is
Michael Quinn -. Historian, and Former B.Y.U. Professor who wrote deveral articles for the Ensign Magazine.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
And where exactly did Michael Quinn get his information: you have stated repeatedly that the information is "highly secretive". So here comes an anti-Mormon with some axe to grind, spouts off some numbers and you fall for it hook, line and sinker!!! So what is it: is the information secretive and hidden or isn't it??? Again the logic on your arguments is completely off base and shows no validity EJ!!!!
djwright44 2 years ago
The information Quinn got was from church sources.
The secrecy I refer to came into force later on. They can't erase what Quinn had already accessed.
McCraney explains it clearly
Thats why you DON'T KNOW who gets paid what amongst the GA's now.They keep it SECRET from you.
Try finding out and expect to be ignored or if you persist disciplined for it.
I know personally that the church Inc IGNORES requests even for a simple explanation of membership figures, because they are fudged.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
"your claims of leaders making money from the church is entirely based on your bigoted opinion of "
So how do you explain the fact that Brigham Young was a multi millionaire of his time and yet he was the Prophet the whole time?
You are purposely avoding the contents of my Video which shows
1. the church lies and deceives over the Translation method.
2.Joseph Smith married other mens wives.
3. The church teaches that negroes are the bodies given to less valiants.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Not sure where you are getting your sources for Brigham Young being a millionairre: please send and I can investigate.
1. No, the church does not lie and deceive: it simply does not focus all that much on the process. It was through revelation and prophetic insight that the translation came about.
2. I comment on this claim elsewhere: there was no sexual contact between Joseph and other men's wives.
3. There is growth and progress in knowledge. Joseph was wrong.
djwright44 2 years ago
Missionaries told me he was very wealthy and thats why he was able to have lots of wives and afford the upkeep of those widows? hahah( what a saint he was).
1 I was deceived and misled by many in church.
2 You were not in the beds when Joseph was screwing around with mens wives. The wives were and its recorded in the diaries of those who were involved. See Todd Comptons Book.
3 The whole LDS infrastructure taught blacks are the less valiants and its still there amongst my older ward members.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
1. Missouri passed a death sentence on every man, woman and child in the LDS faith?? Not sure why you feel in necessary to belittle the suffering many widows went through.
2. How astute of you......however, there is no credible historical source showing Joseph ever was involved sexually with those he entered into polyandry with. I've done my research on that one.
3. Agreed that is there amongst some older people, but older people in general across many religions still hold outdated views.
djwright44 2 years ago
RE item 2: the only credible evidence needed is in the book of Mormon which states the ONLY reason that polygamy is allowed is for procreation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jacob 2:30. Wriggle out of that one.
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
No wiggling required: those were polyandrous, and not polygamist, relationships.
djwright44 2 years ago
so polyandry is ok?
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
11 were polyandry at least 22 were polygamy
where are you getting your info
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
Correct: you gave a blanket statement that the only reason for polygamy was for procreation: I assumed you were grouping into that all the polyandry as well. There was no sexual relations there.
And yes, I agree with your statement that the main reason for polygamy is as stated in the Book of Jacob.
djwright44 2 years ago
I didn't say main reason i said only. jacob 2:30 doesn't provide a second or third option. it clearly states raise up seed or not at all. so JS was breaking the commandments if he didn;t have sex with the women. why are you trying to deny the sex with the polyandrous marriages? does that digust you? would you denounce your belief if it did happen? i doubt it. you would likely come out with some other mind bending explanation. He messed up accept it and move on.
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
Again, you have 0 historically acceptable proof that Joseph engaged in any kind of sexual contact with other men's wives.....never happened....complete rubbish. The sources that claim such are not reliable. And yes, if such can be proven otherwise, I would put my faith on the line.
djwright44 2 years ago
well it isn't my intention to destroy people's faith, only to help people understand when they are being duped. If I am wrong then i would be happy to go back to my narrow world view that LDS holds all the truth and JS was a great man. I used to love Knowing i was right. I take it that you have not read In Sacred Loneliness. All the evidence you need is in there. If the church disagrees with it why is Compton still in the church
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
I will research Compton's claim and sources as I haven't read it yet.....I cannot see how he could be more exhaustive than Bushman.
I'm glad we are both open minded enough to the possibility of change and agreements.
djwright44 2 years ago
I wish the church could be what I used to believe it was. if you can find a way for me to believe after all of the things I have learned then i would be grateful. I think this is very unlikely. I believe in God and I believe the LDS church is a good organisation and teaches many true principles I think the bookof mormon is inspired.I love the people of the church.
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
If faithful mormons were lying that they had intercourse with JS then why weren't they excommunicated? Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384; see Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 15.)
what evidence would you need exactly? you aren't going to be an eye witness now are you?
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
If you look into that bride, she was a polygamous wife with no marriage to another man. People like to twist what happened with Joseph because he tried to "hide" polygamy. However, Joseph was really no different than you or I. I think he was abhorred by the notion of polygamy at the start and just didn't know how to reveal it. God asked him to begin something very difficult to do: I think it a terrible practice and don't know why God would have him enter that practise (or polyandry).
djwright44 2 years ago
ok try zina huntington
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
- Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
no, nor is polygamy today....both practises I find bizarre and strange. Yet, the fact remains that God had ancient prophets engage in the practice and also had modern day prophets engage in it as well.
There was no physical relationship in a polyandrous marriage.
If you condemn Brigham or Joseph for polygamy, then you must also condemn Abraham, Soloman, David and other great prophets in ancient Bible times. I don't understand it, but I'm not one to criticize ancient or modern prophets.
djwright44 2 years ago
i condemn joseph smith for being a manipulative cad and bounder. your quibbling with semantic terms does not acquit JS from having sex with multiple women who were married to other men. many of the polyandrists claimed to have had sex with him and were not excommunicated for saying so so why do you persist with this claim. a case in point is sylvia porter sessions the DNA evidence for her daughter Josephine is due to come out this year
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
the only fact is that the prophets engaged in polygamy not that god commanded them to do so
TheBrotherofGerard 2 years ago
"Yet, the fact remains that God had ancient prophets engage in the practice........"
That is as far from a "fact" as you can get. Facts are irrefutable.
All of the polygamy is excused by "God commanded it.."
Horse pucky. That's as credible as "The devil made me do it." (Flip Wilson)
josephsmythjr 2 years ago
BrighamYoung made sure LDS women suffered as obedient polygamous wives or else.
The widows excuse is a spin LDS missionaries and members put on polygamy and its reasons. Brigham Young was Screwing Young single girls in polygamy.
And he threatened them with hell to obey and marry thugs like him and other LDS cultist leaders.
I've done my research on that one.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Twelve Apostles described the process:
"Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine...One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English..... another character with the interpretation would appear"
Published in the Ensign 1993: quoted by an apostle. Care to revise your point #3????
djwright44 2 years ago
Has this Ensign article ever been used when prosletising and recruiting new converts?
Has this Ensign article ever been used in EQ or Sunday School lessons?
Has this Ensign article ever been used in investigators class?
NOT ONCE IN MY TWO YEARS.
But the misleading Urim and Thummim which supposedly came from heaven in a stone box was spoken of numerous times.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
No, no and no: because it's not really a big deal, except for those who try to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
djwright44 2 years ago
" because it's not really a big deal,"
It must be a big deal because the church goes out of its to way to make sure it is NEVER shown in church illustrations, Teaching Manuals and DVDs.
Joseph Smiths Polygamy is equally Hidden and he is always MISREPRESENTED as a monogomist.
Both BIG DEALS for the church as they don't want people to know.
Shame on the church for blotting and stamping out the memories and lives of Joseph Smiths wives, who served and sacrificed for the faith.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Again, Joseph: it's not. Joseph translated through the power of God as a prophet of God.
It is quite well known that Joseph was a polygamist: it is also well known he was not fond of it, but did so under the command of God.
djwright44 2 years ago
"it is also well known he was not fond of it, but did so under the command of God."
What a crock.
josephsmythjr 2 years ago
Comment removed
whizwhitney 2 years ago
Prophets speaking as men???
and they still call themselves 'Prophets' when they are only men?
The only Prophets the LDS inc have are in fact PROFITS.
They take every last drop of money they can suck out of a member and even claim that if the member Pays Tithe then they will receive even more Dollars back !
Give us your Mammom and God will magically give you back even MORE Mammom and when he doesn't then don't blame us, blame yourself!
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
A pathetically bigoted stated EJ. Our leaders do not take any money except for living expenses for those that are in full-time service. Most of given up highly lucrative careers to serve full-time in the church for nothing.
Get your facts straight. Disagree all you want with the doctrine: statements such as the one above clearly show how strange it is you grasp at anything and are unable to engage in healthy debate.
Pure rubbish from you yet again.
djwright44 2 years ago
" Our leaders do not take any money except for living expenses for those that are in full-time service. "
I agree with you .I actually meant PROFITS as a corporation and not individual leaders sucking Profits.
However I don't believe they are entirely scarificing as you suggest. The church is very secretive about payments and LDS Apostles and Prophets are known to have made alot of money whilst 'called' being blessed with numerous directorships on church or church linked companies.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
So to confirm you are now no longer claiming that the LDS lay ministry makes money? Good, glad to see we're making progress.
As for your second comment: fair enough: neither you or I knows exactly what "living expenses" are and so to claim that they are receiving extra payments is pure speculation, entirely without merit and highly inflammatory.
Yes, the church does own businesses and these businesses produce incomes......wow: what a terrible, terrible thing (sarcasm included!)
djwright44 2 years ago
"So to confirm you are now no longer claiming that the LDS lay ministry makes money? "
Lay ministry as in the local bishop etc , YES.
But it wasn't always like that, see my No Paid Clergy Video.
And as far as The Apostles are concerned then like you say , we don't know because the church keeps there GA expenses/stipends SECRET from you.
Who gets to be directors of the church businesses and why?
If someone declined their callings would the church still award them paid dircectorships?
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
But it wasn't always like that, see my No Paid Clergy Video.
Bringing unsubstantiated claims by McCraney and his highly prejudiced videos is certainly no proof of your claim.
djwright44 2 years ago
It is true that the church teaches that Tithe Payers will be rewarded with DOLLARS.
Conference April 08 Elder Sheldon F. Child
"President Heber J. Grant stated: 'I want to say to you, if you will be honest with the Lord, paying your tithing and keeping his commandments, he will not only bless you with the light and inspiration of his Holy Spirit, but you will be blessed in dollars and cents; "
LDS BIshop Shawn Merriman made claims of huge returns when he defrauded his fellow members.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Your original argument was that people make money off the LDS church. Your note has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with such a claim. The promise is when people pay their tithing, they will be blessed.
As for your referencing Merriman, it is yet more proof of your infatuation with individual failings of some idiots that make mistakes/commit crimes in our church. Guess what: there will be future crimes committed by members (I'm sure if you dig deep enough you'll find some speeding tickets too!)
djwright44 2 years ago
The conference talk said blessed in DOLLARS .
Preying on its members with the lure of wealth in return for tithe and all because the church wants its Dollars from them.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
"As for your referencing Merriman" Merriman is not an isolated case or a failing. Fraud is Common in the LDS church . I have now around 10 recent documented cases of ordinary members being fleeced by these so called worthy and called of God temple Recommend people and how many more are they?
Your flippant remark to equate speeding as some kind of serious crime is stupid unless members drive like dangerous lunatics as well.
Will the church pay back Merrimans tithes to those he defrauded?
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I include my flippant remark regarding speeding because you seem so fascinated with the personal failings of members of the LDS church.
Merriman, and others, are indeed isolated. 4 or 5 in with a membership are isolated cased studies, not trends: something you should realize b4 posting your inflammatory posts.
djwright44 2 years ago
I have 8 serious cases logged being handled by the Law which have come to light and I'm sure many more yet to come. Then there are the child abusers also.
Its no safer to be in the LDS church than any other religion with respect to fraudsters and child abusers.
It seems not even being taught by the only 'directly' led by Christ Prophets and Apostles as oppose to Satans Paid representatives (ie other churches) makes any difference.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I think you've quoted one or 2 child abuse cases out of a worldwide church and you are able to find 8 fraud cases??? Sorry EJ: case studies do not make for general trends.
djwright44 2 years ago
Don't fool yourself. Child abuse cases in Mormonism are likely no different than any other worldly organisation just as are the fraud cases.
Its a church made up of good people ( the victims) and fraudsters ( the perpetrators who prey on them and abuse them ).
Its Power Of Discernment is completely non existent as rapists and fraudsters are called to serve in responsible positions and they are never detected by The LDS Priesthood but only be worldly police and law.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Pure speculation on your part......this is a recurring them with you EJ: no proof to back up the rhetoric.
djwright44 2 years ago
Please explain the 2 billion dollar shopping mall being built by the LDS Inc. in SLC. What does that have to do with spreading the word of the "one true church"
Was it started because of revelation. The Lord sayeth, "I need a great big shopping mall.....with really expensive condos"
josephsmythjr 2 years ago
AWESOME!
LDS1truth 2 years ago
How many times have you copy and pasted this same nonsense.
Its you who may need psychiatric help and I'm not suprised if you spend all that time in LDS mind reform lessons. I couldn't stand any more after two years. I decided to keep my Sanity.
Truth is never boring.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Elder Joseph : 'Truth is never boring"
Thats one of the ways we know that you are full of crap, because you are incredibly boring.
The fact that you devote yourself to hating Mormons is the only thing intrestring about you at all.
Watching your Monty Python like rant about Mormons is a bit like watching someone go on and on about 9-11 and how the Jews did it. It's so stupid and twisted that you look the fool.
EJ is simply obsessed with hatred.
YES I'm an Ex-Mormon!
James92802 3 years ago
"EJ is simply obsessed with hatred."
Obviously not as obsessed as you are with your hatred comments about me.
"YES I'm an Ex-Mormon! "
Are you sure? You don't sound to have recovered yourself.
I would rather you didn't comment on my channel anymore.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Well lets examine that, how many "Elder Joseph is a Mormon hater" videos have I posted?
If you don't want me posting ban me.
I'm only telling the truth, and you can't take it. Shine the light on a cockroach and he will run for cover.... Are you about to run Elder Joseph?
James92802 3 years ago
"I'm only telling the truth, and you can't take it. "
Its not truth you are telling. You are just clogging my channel with your rubbish.
You just come up with silly phrases that only you seem to be revelling over as no one seems to be taking any notice of you except myself.
I realise now that you are not a genuine commenter but some kind of nutcase.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
In the immortal words of Jack Nicolson, You Can't Handle The Truth!"
What makes you think I can't handle the truth? I'm an ex-Mormon, I wonder if Joseph Smith ate some bad mushrooms or was just a liar.
So what "truth" don't I see?
How posting 33 videos, in an attempt to make Mormons look like fools is anything but a strange attempt at revenge. Is that the "truth" I'm missing? That you are really a nice guy?
Or cant you handle the truth that, you are the nutcase.
James92802 3 years ago
I don't think Jack Nicholsons words are immortal.
Whe he has died and his fans have died they will soon be forgotten and new hollwood icons quoted by the new fans.
What is wrong with my Leeds England Mission Challenge booklet?
Its been downloaded worldwide and got great appreciation for it. they said it will come in handy next time Missionaries knock on the door.
My Videos are fine. Where is your attempt in challenging the Mormon Claims on your channel.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
"What is wrong with...Mission Challenge booklet?"
You think it's hard to debunk Mormonism, who needs a booklet?
If anyone feels they need to make a life out of debunking Mormonism try "Kingdom of the Cults" by Dr. Walter Martin.
___
"My Videos are fine." Your videos and your commnets expose you.
"You Can't Handle The Truth! LOL - it just fits so well.
I don't want a you tube channel about Mormons.
James92802 3 years ago
"EJ is simply obsessed with hatred."
Obviously not as obsessed as you are with your hatred comments about me.
"YES I'm an Ex-Mormon! "
Are you sure? You don't sound to have recovered yourself.
I would rather you didn't comment on my channel. Please find your own thing to do in your latter years of your life.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
I'm not obsessed with you, I'm educating you! You seem unable to grasp your own hypocrisy. I'm fascinated (thats two steps below obsessed) with your persistence. You seem a very strong willed person, but also very twisted.
Regarding my being Mormon; read my other notes? Mormons would agree that I'm bound for hell. I'm not afraid of a Mormon God, or hell. I dont think theyre real.
Still that does not make me want to put energy into making Mormons look foolish.
James92802 3 years ago
Have you nothing else to put your energy into?
Why not get some anger management therapy, Tell them you came on EJ's you tube channel and it got you mad.
I do OK with Mormons, many of those who have seen my videos don't go over the top like you do, I don't think they want or need your brand of help.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
I'm not mad at you, I'm enjoying making you squirm.
I know that exposes something twisted in my personality. But I'm indulging myself because you are just such a good target.
I'm 30 years retired Military and have always had a thing about taking down bullies. Most of the time I hold back, but for some reason there is just something about you. I'm not mad i'm enjoying this.
James92802 3 years ago
Bully ? What about Brigham Young , don't you think he was a bully?
Check out my Mormon Polygamy and Mormon Leaders lying Videos and tell me how those LDS leaders make you feel.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Elder Joseph where in any comment I have made have i ever defended the Mormon founders?
I bring up the word bully and instead of trying to tell me that I have you pegged wrong, you bring up a dead Mormon.
Can you explain the relevance? I was talking about you, why do you want to change the subject?
You Can't Handle The Truth! (i just love how well that fits you)
I feel Mormon leadership is wrong, as well as Obama, the Pope, Rush Limbaugh, George Bush, etc...
You're still a bully.
James92802 3 years ago
Yes bully, are you surprised that you share characteristics with those you hate?
Psychotherapy 101 - Elder Joseph everyone shares characteristics with those they hate or love.
Im taking it you dont have mad love for Brigham Young do you?
James92802 3 years ago
As a member of the LDS Church, I will be the first to say that there were those within the early days of the Church that were prejudiced, and unfortunately there still may be members who are. No one is surely perfect. Still, I have a testimony that it is the true Church of Christ, led by imperfect people called of God and led through revelation. Mormons as a whole are not racist, nor do we preach anything that is racist in the Church. I would know if not, for I am a colored person myself.
StorminMormin91 3 years ago
I have some questions for you....
Why were negroe/blacks banned from the Priesthood and Temple for approx150 years?
Why were Balck women banned from the temple when WHITE non priesthood holding women were allowed?
Are blacks/negroes less valiant spirits?
Why are some born black/coloured ?
Is God a white skinned man?
I learnt all this from two years association with Mormons ( WHITE Mormons).
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
One of the main reasons that I can think of that may explain why the Priesthood was not allowed to blacks in the early days of the Church (though JS actually did ordain a black man to the priesthood during that time before the ban) was surely do to the fact that slavery was still in effect, and it would be unsensical to give blacks the Priesthood while they were still under the rule of a master...it would defeat the purposes of the priesthood and would surely anger their masters.
StorminMormin91 3 years ago
Polygamy was just as dangerous if not more and the cause of alot of dissent and hate and yet the church leaders were adamant about continuing it come what may.
So the rights of black humans are not as important as polygamy?
The reason blacks were denied the Priesthood was the Curse Of Cain doctrine commenced and taught by Brigham Young and later confirmed and taught continuoulsy for 150 years.
They taught that Blacks were the less valiant spirits and hence denied the Priesthood.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Another reason is that up until the 70s, segregation was common and surely it could almost be seen as a protection to black members due to the fact that if they were to be given the priesthood and active roles in the Church, the persecution would be heaped upon them doubly, as during that time period both blacks and the Church were generally despised and looked down upon.
Blacks were not less valiant spirits.
God does not look upon race, but upon the heart.
StorminMormin91 3 years ago
"No one is surely perfect."
Prejudice against Blacks and believing Whites are superior because God is a White skinned Mormon is not about being perfect.
Its sheer religious stupidity .
And all this has been taught by so called LDS Prophets and Apostles and many times in General Conferences past.
It serves as a warning as to why we would be better not heeding to these nutcases calling themselves Gods Witnesses and Elect or whatever.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
" Still, I have a testimony that it is the true Church of Christ"
You can have a testimony of anything you like but that doesn't mean the church is what it claims to be.
I have a testimony that its a false church as warned about by Jesus of the New Testament which has taught rubbish to members for 150 years and is trying to sweep its Curse Of Cain/Less Valiants doctrine under the carpet.
The church taught that Blacks are the less valiants hence cursed with a crap circumstance in life.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
" nor do we preach anything that is racist in the Church."
I was taught in 2007 by two WHITE American LDS missionaries that blacks /negroes are the less valiants and that God is a White Skinned man.
It was later reaffirmed to me when I asked my ward members ( the older ones).
The reason members were prejudiced is liekly because they were taught the Curse of Cain doctrine all their lives.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
They were wrong. None of the members are perfect, nor do they totally grasp all of the doctrine, but we learn everything line upon line. If they believe that, than that may have been because they were prejudiced and interpreted doctrine as such. That is unfortunate...however, it does not take away from the fact that the Church is true, and there are plenty of black members who would be willing to testify that to you, prejudices and all.
StorminMormin91 3 years ago
Stormin They are not wrong. They were taught it all their life in church.
Its The Curse Of Cain Doctrine, teaching that negroes are the less valiants in the pre existence.
The church taught ot for 150 years.
And members are taught to follow the prophet. he did not lead them astray thats why they beleive it. they are obedient Mormons.
Now the church is trying to sweep it all under the carpet and hope no one asks about it.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Hmmm, I just attended 2 days of General Conference......and EJ.....wouldn't you know it.......not one thing you have ever mentioned in single one of your videos, ever, was mentioned by all the church leadership over 2 days of meetings and teachings.
I can't imagine your compulsive desire to speak against everything Mormon has a tinge of bigotry now does it??
Anti-Semite or Anti-Mormon: both are bigots.
djwright44 2 years ago
dj I heard this same conference already last year twice and twice in the year before that.
"not one thing you have ever mentioned in single one of your videos, ever, was mentioned by all the church leadership over 2 days of meetings and teachings."
Exactly, they don't tell us the real deal.
No one ever mentioned the head stuffed in hat with garden stone inside (the same tool he used for money digs).
Instead they tell us it was a bilical device which came in the box buried by Moroni.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Unless your personality has changed dramatically I seriously question your ability to be "taught anything.
One does not develop anger issues like you have over a few Mormon missionaries spouting off about a subject they don't know anything about.
In fact I think youre just making up the vast majority of your examples, to justify your hatred.
James92802 3 years ago
klown1975: ElderJoseph has obviously suffered real or imagined suffering at the hands of some Mormon somewhere.
Trying to debate him will not change his mind at all, he is driven by hate and rage.
Just check out his other videos and comments. It's all too clear.
Not all ex-Mormons are angry at the Church.
I'm not even sure he ever was a Mormon, but I wish that whoever motivated Elder Joseph to such hate would apologize quickly.
James92802 3 years ago
I wouldn't do it klown1975 if I were you and yes they are really missionaries not "Kids who think they are missionaries". Trust me I have a few close relatives that are on missions right now, they aren't "Kids" they have defienatly matured into men
honenator 3 years ago
i take it that you have only read fair websites. unfortunately apologist websites can only say things which lead to the answer that "the church is true" rather than just stating the facts. Information is sometimes wrong but if it can be verified by cross referencing and looking at original documents it is believable in my book. Unfortunately the church leaders know that people will leave if they see the facts and think clearly for themselves and aren't intimidated by the fear tactics employed:
TheBrotherofGerard 3 years ago
Such as calling it anti-mormon literature when its just the facts, telling the members they are on a rocky road to apostacy and damnation if they do look. I only discovered the truth by accident as i was trying to help a friend. If i hadn't i would still be unaware and making a fool of myself trying to defend abhorrent practices. I say this out of love for you. I am willing to speak with anyone privately as i know members are sincere and generally honest
TheBrotherofGerard 3 years ago
Well that is amazing, I was asked by my Bishop NOT to tell any black brothers in church about Mormonism's history with the blacks etc.
So was my Bishop in breach of church policy? If so I want to inform him of that.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Of course its home made. It's what I put together to challenge the Mormon Kids who think they are 'missionaries'.
Download yourself a copy.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
We are taught to think in church and we do think, and we are also taught the truth which you are not giving to everyone. You are not exposing "Mormonism" becuase you really don't have anything to really back it up with. I am not joking, because this is the true church and I don't understand why you are trying to acuse it of these things
honenator 3 years ago
you are taught not to look at "anti-mormon" literature and you have clearly obeyed or you would not be saying the things you are. it is even on apologist websites sich as fairmormon dotorg
TheBrotherofGerard 3 years ago
honenator I can see you are a sincere believer. What do you find that is wrong or mistaken with my Video and its contents?
Give me an opportunity to put things right.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
honenator - Warning hatred is a rabbit hole you may never come out of.
Do you like the church or don't you? Do you have questions?
Elder Joseph only wants you to adopt his brand of hate. If you do leave the church there are plenty of reasons to leave, you don't need any help.
Being angry at being fooled, will only lead to your making YouTube videos all day.
Everyone gets fooled, personally I think Joseph Smith ate some Mushrooms, his trip started a religion, he was fooled too.
James92802 3 years ago
What ever aroused so much hatred in your mind towards the church?
honenator 3 years ago
Learn the true history of the church wrestle with it for about 2 years, try to justify each bit with a tortuous mental contortion, swallow each part down full, accepting it as your faith whilst condoning racism, sexism, paedophilia, sex perversion, murder and then finally vomit it all up, sick with the realisation that you have blackened your own thoughts by conforming to this contorted mess of a belief system. That is enough to make most angry. I don't personally hate the church though
TheBrotherofGerard 3 years ago
The part that makes most people angry is when they realise that their friends and loved ones are still held in this self mind bending mystic nonsense, that is visibly hurting them. This is only obvious to anyone who has extricated themselves through clear thought and reason.
TheBrotherofGerard 3 years ago
I'm an ex-Mormon, and yes I have tried to reason with all my family. People don't stay with a religion because of reason or theology, they stay because they are happy with it. Just like in any church. There is much to like about the Mormon Church. Is it true? NO. Are you forced to go? NO! Elder Joseph is a very strange man that wants to justify his inappropriate hate of Mormons! Of all the things one could hate in life, should Mormonism even be on the list?
James92802 3 years ago
But i's okay for Elder Joseph to hate it fro the both of you?
BTW sounds like you hate it.
Also I'm an Ex-Mormon too.
James92802 3 years ago
honenator is this a big joke from you ?
Have you not watched this video? Did you not at least listen to why I am exposing Mormonism?
Are you just genuinely totally mystified or something?
Have you ever been taught to 'think' in church? lol
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
You would have to look into (Elder Joseph's ) heart for that answer, but it's a dark dark place. Full of self loathing, and fear.
James92802 3 years ago
I admire your perseverance and I Thank You! I get tired of trying to educate people.
DazzledTube 3 years ago
Cheers.
Remember your efforts are not in vain. It can take a few years for the 'obvious' to click with Mormons. hahaha
They can't help it, they are 'mind conditioned' with the same techniques that sales companies use. How many times have we ourselves believed in 'closing down sales' and the shop is still open later on? lol
The church will and is losing out because it lies and deceives its members and the public alike.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Elder Joseph. I often accidently on purpose try to bump into the Leeds Mormons. Did you ever tell the black brethren in the church about all this? I am black myself you see and I started attending classes with the missionaries. However, I felt they were holding back whenever I talked to them about their history and stuff. I started researching the whole Mormonism thing myself and was disgusted at their views on blacks, masonry, the occult, polygamy, etc. I just gave them a wide birth thereafter
Louie1984 3 years ago
Hi Louie, Good on you. I too go out looking for the missionaries as I won't let them get way with it anymore.
The White American Mormons are the worst for the nonsense that God is a white Exhalted Mormon Man ! lol
For some missionaries its unknown.Many of them are shocked at what I show them.
Keep the pressure on.
My bishop asked me not to tell any of the balck members in church.Though I did tell a few of the newer converts and investigators. they were shocked and rightly so.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
holy smoke, you gotta a limey accent! you shoulda warned me. Now, minute 4:20,the black curse is realy Gods blessing: it kept many millions of blacks from becoming mormon. and, yes, millions of white guys have been lost because they were under under the mormon blessing. hate it when that happens...The HIll Cumorah is a glacial Dromlin, not a man made hill. C.L. Tholson,1994 gives excellent evidence of the historical depth of Adam-Good. And Poygamy was prevelant in 19th century Utah.maybe 30%
hypnotstcollector 3 years ago
" it kept many millions of blacks from becoming mormon."
Yea Lucky for those not in the church but for those inside the church they had to face seeing White people supposedly get sealed to their families while they couldn't.
And also had to seek out superior WHITE men to get blessings and spiritual healing, not realising they had the same right and access to any God at the time anyway.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
EJ,all so true, but at least they got a blessing! Sort of like Joseph in Egypt, his brothers meant it for evil but God meant it for good. A bunch of Hawaiians moved to Utah in the 1880's as i recall. It didnt go to well. they received their own little community but couldnt make it and died. Their weren't many blacks in Utah. I have an officaial statistic somewhere that shows approx 30 slaves in c. 1860. Jacob Hamblin had 3 or so.
hypnotstcollector 3 years ago
Great job EJ.
GiftoAll 3 years ago
dimtry19 I'm planning on speaking with the Mission President directly about the topics covered in my booklet. I sent him and his wife a copy each.
I'm not happy about the Mormon Church Leadership and the way they are knowingly deceiving people,My missionaries were shocked at what I showed them. They vowed to investigate the church when they got home again.
The ordinary members are sincere, but victims of a deception, Had they lived in Smiths time they would have handed their wives over to him.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
1869: the Neutral in the Preexistence Explanation Denied by Brigham Young
When asked if the spirits of Negroes were neutral in heaven, Brigham Young answers, no, they were not, there were no neutral [spirits] in heaven at the time of the rebellion, all took sides. All spirits are pure that came from the presence of God. (Journal History, 25 December 1869, citing Wilford Woodruffs journal.)
ctrman4u 3 years ago
All took sides but some WERE LESS VALIANT according to over 100 years of LDS prophets and Apostles teachings.
Brigham Young started the BAN on black skin members being allowed access to the Temple because of them being less valiants. John Taylor taught they were representatives of the devil.
LDS Apostle Mark E Peterson taught that negroes would got to Celestial Kingdom to be servants to WHITE Mormon Gods.
The Unmarried will be servants to the Polygamous WHITE mormon godmen too.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
1970: Salt Lake Tribune Reports that David O. Mckay Says there is No Doctrine on Blacks
President David O. Mckay of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was quoted Wednesday as saying as early as 1954 that There is no doctrine in this church and there never was a doctrine in this church to the effect that the Negroes are under any kind of a divine curse.
ctrman4u 3 years ago
You forget about the words of Living LDS Prophets and Apostles who taught that blacks were the less valiants and cursed with a dark skin as well as other disadvantages in comparison with WHITE Mormons especially.
What was the point of all those Living Prophets and Apostles leading the church astray then.
Wilford Woodruffs journal also contains the teaching of Brigham Young that Adam is God and took on a body, brought one of his wives to create tabernacles for his own spirit children.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Not only was Cain called upon to suffer [for killing Abel], but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. . . . Millions of souls have
come into this world CURSED with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fulness of the blessing of the Gospel. These are the
descendants of Cain." (The Way to Perfection, by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 101, Genealogical Society of
Utah, 1935 )
ElderJoseph 3 years ago