Ravel - Le Tombeau de Couperin (Cecile Licad, 1986) 1/3

[millercgr]

TOO FAST!!!!

[egyptianminor]

the tempo is a tiny bit too fast - for me - but the real problem is the quality of the recording- maybe the piano wasn't miked as well as it should have been.

[HSchoenberg]

She should fix her neck!



[frozinfire]

it sounds pasty to me...probably because of the high pitch frequency sound

[USABG58]

I'm one of those dummy people with no musical abilities except to insert a CD or put on a vinyl, and as a lover of Ravel's music I would not care to listen to this because it's too fast. It's not enjoyable to try and listen at such a fast tempo.

[angela1894]

Too FAST, too damn fast !!

[KhagarBalugrak]

@angela1894, not at all. This tempo works just fine.

[izlude2]

my piano teacher hates when people do that with their hands and face (lifting hands way the heck off the piano and closing their eyes as if they're feeling emotional) he tells me to cut that the hell out :P

[Kitsua]

@izlude2 If it's an affectation, then your teacher is right. However, if it's a natural product of your playing style and an unconscious trait, then by all means move how you feel you need to. You should ultimately get to the point where how you look doesn't even enter your mind.

[tuberobotto]

@izlude2  Piano teachers have a way of embedding their own personal preferences on their young proteges and they may have their reasons for that. You must understand that this pianist in the video was taught by no less and no other than Rudolf Serkin himself. Ask your teacher who Serkin is (or you can google him) then your teacher or yourself can talk about visuals.

[kiisaka]

It's not that the tempo overall is too fast: it's fine. However, she rushes often, straying away from the rhythmic backbone of the piece. Also, she does not present the harmonics well. The colours are dull and have little contrast. With each of the key and chord changes, I want to see / hear a kaleidoscope.

[ptm5150]

@kiisaka Then post a response video of your interpretation and show us how it is done...

[tebanll]

demasiado rápido :S

[BillionsUponUs]

does anyone else think this is way too fast, or atleast a bit too fast?

[xgianpatrick]

@BillionsUponUs

Check Ravel's metronome marks; she is very close to them. Cheers.

[deandusk]

@xgianpatrick mm are not relevant.

[alexanderxharris]

OMG *--------------*

[jaimebyrne777]

i love what she does with the first movement. such clarity.

[SLEEVEKICKER]

lol

[lovesGenet]

She was playing way before Berezovsky was noticed.even though he was inTchaik compet 20 years ago attention to him is only recent.Her sound is magical and sophisticated use of touches &pedal.Don't compare!

[benjaminyobp]

Am I listening to this on fast forward?

[tomamans]

@benjaminyobp

Haha! Just the Forlane though, imo.

[totalannihilator99]

She's trying to play this as fast as Berezowski. Almost done. As for the emotion, we reach pure ZERO here. Computer style.

[yiyiku]

there is plenty of emotion. i agree the prelude was fast and there was almost no rubato anywhere, but the fugue was very expressively played. i kinda like the continuous drive and constant forward motion in the prelude, certainly gave me a new perspective

[totalannihilator99]

Matter of tastes I guess. I stick to Samson François' parisian spirit and subtle staccato (even if some of his YT vids have recently been removed). Cheers.

[Baddogphil]

Arietta459, you are a precious little douchebag. Why don't you piss off back into your padded cell. "Lawsuit" indeed- you are beyond pathetic.

[TeeteringBulb]

At the beginning of the discussion below, I could see the point of both sides, perhaps agreeing a bit more with danbar.

It seems though, that Arrieta has completely lost his/her mind in the course of the discussion. It's almost fascinating to see a person's sanity decreasing so rapidly into nothingness.

[Arrieta459]

Since you continue to not understand what you've done, I'm contacting Licad's manager, and ask them to look at what you've written about her on You Tube. Be aware that You Tube keeps a record of our email addresses. Those email addresses are traceable to their owners - you can be traced. It's one thing to criticize a video. It's another when false stories are woven about a person. If you can't back up your comments about Licad with actual proof of information, you may be facing a lawsuit.

[danbar73]

Now that you've run out of anything to say that makes any sense, you are threatening me with a lawsuit over your own stupid fabrications ? You're out of you mind, better get some help.Unlike you, I have only good things to say about this fine artist. You are the one that's going to be in trouble if you keep on fabricating false stories about anyone.

[dominicbalabat]

@Arrieta459: You agreed to youtube's terms and agreement when you created the account. You might have read 5.G. on youtube's terms and conditions!!!!!!

I'm not being biased... I'm just being fair and you seem to be very SURE of what you're saying...

I have a copy of the terms and agreement if you want!!!

One can say you're very arrogant, stupid, lame, ugly BEAAAAACHE!!! etc!!!! AND THEY WILL FACE LAWSUIT?!?!?!?

COMMON!!!

[Arrieta459]

Terms of Use:

6B. You shall be solely responsible for your own User Submissions and the consequences of posting or publishing them. In connection with User Submissions, you affirm, represent, and/or warrant that: you own or have the necessary licenses, rights, consents, and permissions to use and authorize YouTube to use all patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights in and to any and all User Submissions

[Arrieta459]

and have all necessary consents to collect, use and disclose any personally identifiable information contained or displayed in any and all User Submissions to enable inclusion and use of the User Submissions in the manner contemplated by the Website and these Terms of Service.

[dominicbalabat]

LOL!!! go ahead.... I wanna hear it from the court then... I encourage you to file a case against danbar73.... Let's see what will happen...

I strongly encourage you!!! I'm serious!!! Let's see who will gonna look so funny in the court!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

I cant imagine how people would react to such childish actions... If you think deeper than average people does, you wont even think of any lawsuit using youtube's comments as evidence... LOL!!!

Anyway, go ahead... let's see... :D

[Arrieta459]

YouTube Community Guidelines:

Don't Cross the Line

* We encourage free speech and defend everyone's right to express unpopular points of view. But we do not permit hate speech (speech which attacks or demeans a group based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, GENDER, age, veteran status and sexual orientation/gender identity).

[dominicbalabat]

Common!!! Be consistent!!! You're talking about lawsuit just a little while ago... Now, you're pointing at Youtube Community!! We'll, if that what you REALLY are fighting for, then you can send a formal request to Youtube to disable danbar73's account for such "voilation"....

Anyway, ENOUGH OF THIS NONSENSE. I just cant take when you said you WILL really move forward for lawsuit! That's my right to express "unpopular>??!@#!?" point of view!!

Thank you for your understanding.

[Arrieta459]

Now, this is a real problem - you're unable to understand what you've done.

You should re-read your comments about Licad for you to realize why they would horrify her, especially your responses to people who disagreed with you, or didn't like Licad's playing. Many of your comments appeared intrusive, as if you knew Licad personally, or you lived with her, or somehow, you're her manager(which absolutely you're not).

And no, your so-called information is not all available on the internet.

[danbar73]

Again, EVERYTHING I said about her academic training, recordings, concerts or anything related to her art is on the papers and internet - absolutely nothing intrusive or personal. As I had stated in the beginning, I don't know CLpersonally. Since you cannot be specific about these " conjectures", I'm watching the World Series.

[Arrieta459]

And FYI: All artists criticize each other and the quality of their work, whether publicly or in private, with most done privately. You Tube is a fascinating venue to do just that without revealing your true identity.

[danbar73]

Just what "conjectures about her" have I "promoted" that would horrify CL if she read about them? Everything I wrote about her is on the internet. I have not made up anything about her on my own. You are right about one thing : your name is all over the web like one on a witness protection program.

[Arrieta459]

Whether you believe me as real or not is immaterial, as my name can be easily found on the web - if you know it.

But you're not going to know it.

[Arrieta459]

And to answer your video challenge:

My videos are posted all over the internet - fan and blog sites, news media sites, piano sites, concert presenters, my management company, my website, Facebook, AOL video, and on You Tube.

But I'm not giving you the benefit of knowing who I am because you have conducted your self as a rabid, blind, and unreasonable fan(based on your responses to videos of Licad on You Tube), making questionable and ridiculous assumptions and conjectures about her.

[Arrieta459]

The way you have blindly defended Licad in your responses to others in her videos on You Tube is actually a disservice to her artistry. And they make people doubt her even more than promoting people to like her.

If I were Licad, I would be upset at some of the questionable conjectures you've posted.

As an artist, I certainly would not want you as a fan.

[danbar73]

A good pianist knows what it takes to play at this level and would not go on, to the extent that you have, to diminish CL's fine performance here. A real artist would not dismiss performances of this work in the past as worthless garbage because Ravel's incomplete orchestral version had not been available yet. If you're not a FAKE, why don't you you reveal your identity so we could watch your video and be enlightened. I'm not doing CL's remarkable artistry a disservice unlike some envious nuts.

[Arrieta459]

I'm sorry, but you continue to do her a HUGE disservice by promoting your own conjectures about her, especially when people disagree with you. If Licad sees the assumptions you've written about her on You Tube, she would be horrified.

And I did not diminish Licad's performance here. I described it as technically-secure, all correct, and note-perfect - they are all praises.

The original point is whether she incorporated the orchestral version in her interpretation, which I feel she did not.

[Arrieta459]

All conscientious and intelligent performing pianists will agree with me about the necessity of understanding the orchestral version of this piece as an important component in interpreting it. It's self-evident to every performing pianist. But you're not a performing pianist - as revealed by your responses, you have a limited and pretentious understanding of the processes involved in crafting an interpretation.

[Arrieta459]

Her interpretation shows a lack of understanding of the orchestral version as to color and articulation specific to certain instruments(such as the woodwinds), and tempo decisions as prescribed by Ravel(several posts here commented on how much faster her tempo is than the orchestral version). It's a technically-secure and note-perfect playing, but lacks imagination. Under more capable hands, this piece evokes orchestral sounds, which was Ravel's intention. Her interpretation does not do that.

[danbar73]

An intelligent, well-trained pianist does not need to hear anybody's recording or an orchestral version of ANY piece of music to be able to play it well. Only the inexperienced or one incapable of making sound musical judgment would blindly follow the exact tempo adopted by an orchestra. Even beginners don't expect the piano to duplicate the tonal colors created by an orchestra.The pianist uses controlled touch/dynamics &pedaling for colors.CLused faster tempo to add vibrant impressionistic hues

[Arrieta459]

With artists who take the time to comprehend Ravel's orchestral version, and make it a part of their interpretation, we hear more than a technically-secure, note-dynamic-articulation-perf­ect, performance. What we hear is greater imagination. In performances of artists who do not, despite being technically secure and note-perfect(like this performance), something is lacking. And what's missing is a more vivid imagination. That vivid imagination is evoked by comprehending the orchestral version.

[danbar73]

As I stated earlier, CL most likely discussed the orchestral version with her mentors. As a young student, she already exhibited musical intelligence and instincts way beyond her years. She had a mind of her own, and always had the final say on interpretation. Her teachers found her judgment on musical matters to be reliable, and respected her in this regard. For this reason, her Ravel is always fresh and more satisfying than the cookie cutter version. If your's is better,enlighten us,post it.

[Arrieta459]

Just like with Stravinsky's Petrouchka (although it was reversed, the opera came first before the incomplete piano version),any pianist must know and understand the opera to give the piano version its proper interpretation. Can these piano pieces, Petrouchka and Le Tombeau, be effectively performed without consulting their opera and orchestral versions? Of course they can - they're masterpieces written by great composers. Many pianists who are technically proficient do that and we hear it often.

[Arrieta459]

However, consulting another version of a piece written for a different medium by the composer enriches the imagination of the pianist, who in turn, gives us, the listener, a true and far richer listening experience than just a technically proficient, all-correct(as to articulation, dynamics, etc) performance, even if it's exciting.

As in Le Tombeau, it's easy to spot any pianist playing the Petrouchka who did not consult or fully understand its operatic version.

[jurbinsky77]

@Arrieta459 Are you Rowena?

[Arrieta459]

The point of argument here is WHY Ravel's orchestral version is important and crucial in the interpretation of this piece. It gives us a clear idea on how he heard it orchestrally, even if it's incomplete - why that tempo, why that specific instrumentation, why that articulation, why those dynamics, why that balance, etc. It behooves any pianist to know and understand the orchestral version when making final interpretative decisions regarding this piece.

[Arrieta459]

Being a part of a music festival named after Ravel does not give a seal of approval with good interpretation - it's a music festival dedicated to performing Ravel`s music, and that's it.

[danbar73]

CL was not part of a festival of Ravel's music or some competition. She attended the full summer program on scholarship at the Ravel Academy, Saint Jean de Luz, France to enhance her academic training related to the music of Ravel & contemporaries. One can assume that she had been exposed to some special instructions, lectures and master classes of the leading exponents of French music.

[Arrieta459]

Every pianist must consider the orchestral version of this piece when interpreting it - to ignore it is to miss the composer`s own ideas on how it can sound other than a piano.

The quote attributed to Ravel(if it`s true) as related by Jeanne-Marie Darre in playing his music must be taken with a grain of salt - Ravel meant it to be taken with a fast tempo, but always with utmost clarity, with clarity being the more important of the two.

[danbar73]

If the pianist must depend on the orchestral version for the correct interpretation of this music, what would he/she do with the movements that were not orchestrated by Ravel ? In the end,it is the artist who must decide on a coherent and meaningful interpretation based on sound training and musical intelligence.

[danbar73]

J M Darre supposedly asked Ravel how fast should she play his music indicated in fast tempo. And his reply was as fast as she could, and indeed with utmost clarity as you have suggested. For that reason, only technically secure pianists may opt for a faster tempo and maintain the ability to articulate the notes cleanly with proper dynamic shadings.

[danbar73]

I don't believe that the orchestrated version,which came 6 yrs after the original piano version, was intended by Ravel to be the model for playing the original one. The fact he did not orchestrate all six movements clearly indicates that the piano version would have survived regardless. Some technically secure pianists use a faster tempo to expand the piano's limited means for tonal coloring,provided the notes are cleanly articulated,the phrasing/melody intact w/ proper dynamic control & shading

[Arrieta459]

The orchestral version cannot be ignored, even if it came much later, as it clearly shows the composer's mature thoughts about his music. Playing it at a faster tempo has nothing to do with being technically secure.

[danbar73]

I did not suggest at all that the pianist should ignore the orchestral version. CL must have discussed it with her teachers at the Curtis Institute and the Ravel Music Academy. A technically secure pianist,more than the average one,can play the notes accurately and evenly in a faster tempo with various dynamic shadings. Ravel himself told the great Jeanne-Marie Darre to play as fast as she could as long as she played every note properly.

[minastronasse]

An additional touch of violence and she would be as bad as Richter was (and gosh he was really awful). No emotion at all, typewriter style.

[jtdendy]

prelude is too fast... hard to hear what's actually going on in the music at this tempo. very impressive facility, though!

[snogger666]

She is just divine!!!

[dfausz]

Simply beautiful!

[bassodivo]

true, i agree its a little too fast

[mzkim3385]

sounds good

[jcg1227]

A bit too fast, though her playing is impressive.

[nickhartley27707]

well, it may seem fast compared to the orchestral version, she's playing only one or two metronome ticks faster than written. The tempo on the music is 92 for a dotted quarter note, she's playing an average of 100.

Also, keep in mind that this was the original version. The (slower) orchestral version was realized by the composer several years after the writing of this version.

[jcg1227]

Yes, I'm aware that the orchestra version is slower, but I still say she should slow it down a little. :P

[RainMan34]

It's fast. It's a lot faster than any recording I have.

[yevkn71]

Her average of 100 reveals tempos that are faster than that, which eventually poses a big difference to the 92 tempo of the orchestral version - thats a big difference to every dotted quarter note. Thats why her performance feels too fast, even mechanical, to some people. The orchestral version reveals very clearly how this piece should be played. Any pianist playing this piece must study how Ravel wanted it to sound with an orchestra, including his prescribed tempo. I dont think she did.

[nelassov]

Contresens. Trop impressioniste. Ou est Couperin ?

[kapariz44]

When I heard this performance, my first reaction was to say "hey, easy on, gal, you don't have a train to catch!" She takes it at a helluva rate, at least compared to the orchestrated version. But she has a great fluidity of playing and if I consider it as her own interpretation I actually rather like it - it's another look at a well established piece and shows that at least there's one Filipina who can do some original thinking. Most of the others are entirely derivative. Ingat, Cecile.

[prandtastic]

the fact that someone can compose something like that is unbelievable

[simbanobel]

I agree with previous comments, bit to fast and lack of colouring hehe

[pureaKero]

Incredible articulations and consistant tempo! Just a few problems with odd accents she introduces at the end of the first section, also I don't think she considered the orchestral score at all! There are a lot of subtle harmonic rhythms that are only clear in ravel's orchestration! A beautiful rendition but lacks that little something extra!

[nickhartley27707]

The piano version was the original...the orchestral version came years later...

[pureaKero]

I know, but as Alfred Cortot said, 'you can only truly discover what phrasing Ravel truly wanted by looking at his orchestral transcription'. Also its interesting to study it just to get an idea of what color certain passages call for (this is especially true for the development!)

[yevkn71]

The orchestral version reveals a lot on how that piece should be played. In communicating this piece at the piano, the orchestral version has to be considered by the pianist.

[deemilieu]

abbey simon. a vox box - cheap - release. the best, i think. 1964 or 5 recording of ravel's piano works.

[daniel8chang]

She's good, but this feels a little rushed. It sounds a bit too mechanical, and I feel she could better articulate the "colors changing" that exemplifies the impressionist style.

[lakshwadeep]

Great performance!

I sometimes wonder if the viewers who find "mechanical" tones/tempos would say the same comment if they couldn't see the performer. For me, it seems that there can be a bias against asians (or in this case pacific islanders) because "they play like robots". I don't think it's always meant to be rude, but it does feed into the idea (which I disagree with) that "Easterners" and "Westerners" can't play the other group's classical music as well as "native players".

[kowalityjesus]

This is an interesting point you bring up.

I have a recording of a Frenchman playing this music and it is at a higher pinnacle than this particular individual. Honestly, I can't discern a specific complaint regarding the Fugue, but clarity and articulation in lower notes is wanting in this particular performance of the Prelude.

Also, the dotted figure in the Forlane is exaggerated to the point of being a grace note.

The issue is too complicated to simply be written off as being mechanical.

[opus43rhap]

I love this piece....she's great!!

[HinggilSaTinggil]

Very fast playing, but accurate and precise. Is she the former student of Vladimir Horowitz?

[kingstravinsky101]

the sound is too low.....................

[paulostroff99]

A wonderful pianist! Brava! TY.

[mcsmdemesa]

excellent!!!!!! the greatest filipina pianist...

[paulostroff99]

mcsmdemesa-No doubt,and in the class of Martha Argerich!

[fionasapple]

wow!! not at all really. not even close :D

[ChrisLee522]

excellent but perhaps a little fast on the prelude...

[GozTheGreat]

I'm agree with you a bit fast on prelude. And, for my taste, also perhaps a little lack of "nuances" (in same time a bit too legato, a bit too "mechanical tempo", and a little lack of "dynamic diversity").

[slothvader]

she is excellent throughout. great economy of movement, at least in the hands.

easy on the eyes, too.

[aznfilamdude]

Sweet! A Filipina pianist, I'm not alone!

[nknibbe]

Great technique! In my humble opinion, almost everyone plays the Prelude too fast! I have a recording of Walter Gieseking playing it and i think he gets the tempo just right. The Forlane is also slightly too fast for me.

[Snowflake641]

She's from the Philippines. She's amazing and extraordinary. Truly gifted and does her country proud. Cheers Cecile!

[tiklado07]

She is in New York. Still busy and more performances in Europe, particularly in Germany.

[pingzing58]

Wow, an incredible performance. I know this was 20 years ago where is she now? Absolutely wonderful!!!!

[TheTradge]

I think this was very characteristic, but a little too fast

[chirocoke]

the crude audio/video does not really make justice. i've seen so many great pianist's videos in the internet and this online medium has a long long way to go. poor fidelity and ill-processed audio.

[fmhv]

Of course this is not Hi-Fi ... but think for a moment that many of those portrayed this way would neveer be known otherwise by million and million of persons ... if you weight pro-and-cons I would certainly think that pro´s win by far.

[Grisostomo06]

I wish she hadn't sprinted through the prelude. This is a very beautiful Ravel piano piece. I love every Ravel composition I've ever heard but this is especially nice and Cecile Licaud's playing is masterful but the tempo is faster than I'm used to.

Thanks a lot for posting this.

[yellowkoi]

Thank you for the uploads! This is a great video! Her Le Tombeau is just beautiful.

[KevinFromSD]

Wow! I have always wanted to see CL perform this on TV on Classic Arts Showcase, but never did until now. How about 'Gaspard de la Nuit'? That will defintely be awesome

to watch, I bet you!