the history of croatia is not good - they come out of all this extremely badly - as for ww2 the islamic world has much to be ashamed of too... i don't accept the enemy of my friend is my friend - not when he is also a total bastard! look at the intelligent comments of most native english speakers on here, many are not blinded by the media and know the truth, it's all a big game, we are chess pieces, serbia has been used in the most horrible way imagineable... many innocents on either side mate!?
@rugbyboy198127 So, according to you "... history of Croatia is not good " I would strongly suggest you stay on the subjects you have some knowledge about, because you know so very little about the Croatian history. All you know is communist propaganda related to some small sections of the Croatian population during the WW1. What they didn't tell you that the entire antifascist movement started in Croatia. Remember what nationality was Tito, Ivo Lola Ribar, Vladimir Nazor etc.
@seimour17 I'm talking of ww2 not ww1 - i'm talking about the crazy nazi croats who were never held to account, i'm talking about the rife racism in croatia - i've seen the football hooligans there - worst of any - that checkered red/white flag of croatia represents racism to me - I've seen when english teams play croatian in europe, i've seen racsim at english players when england play croatia - facsim has many guises, EU is facist many anti-fascists behave in a very facist manner lol it's true
@rugbyboy198127 , I am sorry, for a minute I thought I might have an intelligent debate and exchange of views with you, not realizing that you are just another poor, brainwashed soul living in your dark past unable to see reality or reason. Therefore, I do not intend to continue wasting my time on simple minds like yours.
@seimour17 as far as I was aware we were having that very debate you speak of.....until..... you gave upo cos you lost mate? you stated that cos albanians 'outbred' serbs in their own country, the servs no longer have claim to their land? that is what you said right? that's crazy mate - unbelieveable stuff!
@seimour17 by the way i'm not serbian - i'm english and very proud! the sad fact is that such has this whole saga impacted the internatioanl view of serbians.. well i'm sure you know the man utd song about vidic? comes from serbia, he'll f***ing murder ya? when really for me the serbs have been victims since the first world war mainly for being allied to russia via slavic roots and orthadox church... i think it's very sad - i'm very objective and reasonable and this is my conclusion ;)
@seimour17 so your arguement is that it's ok to ethnically cleanse a population who have been present there for thousand or more years, stop them coming back after the cleansing, breed like rabbits for 50 years, destroy the country and then claim it is yours? wow - that's similar to the european colonial model isn't it lol? I can't believe you made such an arguement.. wait there's more... then you round up and murder any remaining serb people and claim the very reverse/opposite/contrary? huh?lol
@seimour17 so your arguement is that it's ok to ethnically cleanse a population who have been present there for thousand or more years, stop them coming back after the cleansing, breed like rabbits for 50 years, destroy the country and then claim it is yours? wow - that's similar to the european colonial model isn't it lol? I can't believe you made such an arguement.. wait there's more... then you round up and murder any remaining serb people and claim the very reverse/opposite/contrary? huh?lol
I could never understand the aggressive tendencies of the Serbian and Croatian nationalists, claiming the land which clearly does not belong to them any more. The land belongs to people who live on that land. With negative population growth, both Serbs and Croats will be assigned to history in a not too distant future. The present time Serbia and Croatia will be populated by Albanians, Muslims etc. So, what the war was all about?!!! Sick unrealistic ambitions of few mentaly sick men.
Tuzno je vidjeti kako grupica srpskih nacionalista i dalje radije zive u svojim mastama nego da prihvati realnost i istinu. Pogledajte samo malo oko sebe pa shvatite sta vam je ta vasa slijepa, agresivna nacionalisticka politika napravila. Ljudi da li cete se vi ikada osvijestiti? Eh, da ste samo znali praviti prijatelje umjesto tenkova. Vidite sta vam je vase ogromno oruzje napravilo. Izgubili ste povjerenje svih okolo vas. Cak vas ni Crnogorci nece. I vi jos uvjek krivite sve druge a ne sebe.
There you go again. You Serbs insist in making everyone as guilty as you are. May I just remind you: Who sent the tanks and army to kill people in other republics? Remember the kilometers long column of tanks from Belgrade sent to destroy Croatian Vukovar. No one else had the army but you - Serbs. Only occupators tell other nations you cannot have your independence and freedom. Has anyone ever told Serbs ; 'You cannot have your independence and your freedom. You just don't understand, do you?
@seimour17 you are fucking retarded. the issue is not serbs denying croats and muslims the right to secede frmo yugoslavia, the problem was that the croats and muslims wanted to force 2 million serbs living in Croatia and Bosnia to secede with them, when those serbs wanted to keep living in yugoslavia. if croats and muslims no longer wanted to live in yugoslavia and have the right to secede, then serbs had the right to secede from croatia and bosnia since they didn't want to live in those states
@yugo91aesop - Hmmm.. what to say about the polite and highly intelligent contribution you are making to this debate?! I think I'll let your words and actions speak for themselves!!!! I guess you are making the same claim about Kosovo Serbs. Yeap! The whole world is wrong and you are right. Obviously you are ignorant to the fact that it is the small minority of people like you that has done more harm to Serbia and Serbs than Croatia, Bosnia, NATO or anyone else in the world.
@yugo91aesop - Hmmm.. what to say about the polite and highly intelligent contribution you are making to this debate?! I think I'll let your words and actions speak for themselves!!!! I guess you are making the same claim about Kosovo Serbs. Yeap! The whole world is wrong and you are right. Obviously you are ignorant to the fact that it is the small minority of people like you that has done more harm to Serbia and Serbs than Croatia, Bosnia, NATO or anyone else in the world.
@seimour17 so a minority demands freedom - and they should simply get it? watch this documentry from start to finish again and have a real good think to yourself - presently you are both biased and brainwashed and full of hate!
@rugbyboy198127 "...biased and brainwashed and full of hate..." I am not. I can assure you. I still have many Serbs as my friends. Yes, that is true. However, talking about being 'biased and brainwashed' how can you call such concocted bull..it - a documentary. It has been so selctively edited that is resembles more a commedy show than documentary. How can you belive the people who are responsibel for you having to leave your country of birth. In any war the first victim is - the truth!!!
@seimour17 yes as you quite correctly say the first victim is the truth - now which version of events has the western media portrayed/supported over the last 20 or so years? when you see lybia etc do you believe what the politicians are telling you? hugging gaddafi one minute then demonising him the next... you think they have the interests of lybians at heart, you think they tell us the truth? ofcourse not - the fact that the west overwhelmingly supported that liar begovic shows what happened!?
@seimour17 look the killing and massacres on both sides is truely awful and I recognise that the serbs did perhaps commit the worst atrocities by virtue of numbers - but this isn't about numbers - it's about who has a just grievence! the croats slaughtered serbs during ww2, have escaped being punished unlike the nazis and then begovic supporetd by islamic extremists attempted to ethnically cleanse bosnia of serbs - btw croats also murdered muslims too - fanatic catholic nazi croats - disgusting!
@seimour17 really the truth of all this is that the serbs have been the real victims - victims of a political game - kosovo is where all the serbian heritage is - all the orthadox churches, graveyards etc, it is an outrage what happened to serbs in bosnia and kosovo, and no wonder they retaliated with such anger! the serbs were the first line of defence aginst the nazis, brave heros and look how the west and europe has repaid her, by tearing her limb from limb and pretending that she is aggresor
@rugbyboy, Please, try to understand; Believe me I understand your love for your heritage. I understand what Kosovo means to Serbs. However please understand the reality. Over the last several decades Serbian women had one child per family - Albanians had 10-12 . Within few decades Serbian province of Kosovo became populated by Siptars. Therefore it is now their land. You cant blame for this Western politics or NATO. Blame your own women who don't reproduce enough Serbs to keep your own lands.
@seimour17 i strongly disagree with your arguement - this population change is within the last generation - btw not only increased birth rate of muslims but also tito stopped serbs from moving back to the areas they had been driven from in ww2 - he feared them - all did irrationally just cos serb was biggest, strongest nation in yugoslavioa - ironically they did this to try and protect yugoslavia but they have destroyed it! within 50 years - yet israel have claim to land they left 2000 years ago
if serbs were agressors, it means that serbian people who were killed and massacred during the war were killed by their own army? it doesnt make sense. you need to realize that three of the sides are to blame. muslims and croatian nazis used the media as their major weapon playing by the rule Devide and rule gaining worlds sympathies that way
the muslims start more shit then anyone, the serbs although didnt speak up for themselves or have the proper reporting, noone in this is innocent, croatians , serbs slovenians , muslims all commited genocide , the americans only wanted to report on the serb attrocities though
@liloxe Where exactly do you see that it is said that there was no serbian killings?
Of course they were ... It's just that the image sent to the world is extremely biased, and said that the Serbs were the aggressors and the Bosnians were purely the victims. Which is far far from true ...
And since you're an obviously biased Albanian idiot and I see that all argument is futile I'll just ask you not to speak up anymore ...
@liloxe Man I'm not Serbian, I am Bosnian and lived there and in Serbia, all three sides are equally to blame, Franjo Alija Slobodan svi su izasli iz kaveza i provokacijom i maskom zastite svog naroda klali drugi narod i svi su ga popusili na kraju. Ni jedan nije mogao da zivi sa slikama zla sto su ucinili na svoj narod.
The Truth of the Yugoslav wars lies somewhere between the two documentaries "Death of Yugoslavia and this one...in any civil war there is going to be a certain bias depending on how you look at the conflict.
the history of croatia is not good - they come out of all this extremely badly - as for ww2 the islamic world has much to be ashamed of too... i don't accept the enemy of my friend is my friend - not when he is also a total bastard! look at the intelligent comments of most native english speakers on here, many are not blinded by the media and know the truth, it's all a big game, we are chess pieces, serbia has been used in the most horrible way imagineable... many innocents on either side mate!?
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@rugbyboy198127 So, according to you "... history of Croatia is not good " I would strongly suggest you stay on the subjects you have some knowledge about, because you know so very little about the Croatian history. All you know is communist propaganda related to some small sections of the Croatian population during the WW1. What they didn't tell you that the entire antifascist movement started in Croatia. Remember what nationality was Tito, Ivo Lola Ribar, Vladimir Nazor etc.
seimour17 5 months ago
@seimour17 I'm talking of ww2 not ww1 - i'm talking about the crazy nazi croats who were never held to account, i'm talking about the rife racism in croatia - i've seen the football hooligans there - worst of any - that checkered red/white flag of croatia represents racism to me - I've seen when english teams play croatian in europe, i've seen racsim at english players when england play croatia - facsim has many guises, EU is facist many anti-fascists behave in a very facist manner lol it's true
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@rugbyboy198127 , I am sorry, for a minute I thought I might have an intelligent debate and exchange of views with you, not realizing that you are just another poor, brainwashed soul living in your dark past unable to see reality or reason. Therefore, I do not intend to continue wasting my time on simple minds like yours.
seimour17 5 months ago
@seimour17 as far as I was aware we were having that very debate you speak of.....until..... you gave upo cos you lost mate? you stated that cos albanians 'outbred' serbs in their own country, the servs no longer have claim to their land? that is what you said right? that's crazy mate - unbelieveable stuff!
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@seimour17 by the way i'm not serbian - i'm english and very proud! the sad fact is that such has this whole saga impacted the internatioanl view of serbians.. well i'm sure you know the man utd song about vidic? comes from serbia, he'll f***ing murder ya? when really for me the serbs have been victims since the first world war mainly for being allied to russia via slavic roots and orthadox church... i think it's very sad - i'm very objective and reasonable and this is my conclusion ;)
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@seimour17 you think tito was a good/great man? really? oh dear :(
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@seimour17 so your arguement is that it's ok to ethnically cleanse a population who have been present there for thousand or more years, stop them coming back after the cleansing, breed like rabbits for 50 years, destroy the country and then claim it is yours? wow - that's similar to the european colonial model isn't it lol? I can't believe you made such an arguement.. wait there's more... then you round up and murder any remaining serb people and claim the very reverse/opposite/contrary? huh?lol
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@seimour17 so your arguement is that it's ok to ethnically cleanse a population who have been present there for thousand or more years, stop them coming back after the cleansing, breed like rabbits for 50 years, destroy the country and then claim it is yours? wow - that's similar to the european colonial model isn't it lol? I can't believe you made such an arguement.. wait there's more... then you round up and murder any remaining serb people and claim the very reverse/opposite/contrary? huh?lol
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
I could never understand the aggressive tendencies of the Serbian and Croatian nationalists, claiming the land which clearly does not belong to them any more. The land belongs to people who live on that land. With negative population growth, both Serbs and Croats will be assigned to history in a not too distant future. The present time Serbia and Croatia will be populated by Albanians, Muslims etc. So, what the war was all about?!!! Sick unrealistic ambitions of few mentaly sick men.
seimour17 5 months ago
Tuzno je vidjeti kako grupica srpskih nacionalista i dalje radije zive u svojim mastama nego da prihvati realnost i istinu. Pogledajte samo malo oko sebe pa shvatite sta vam je ta vasa slijepa, agresivna nacionalisticka politika napravila. Ljudi da li cete se vi ikada osvijestiti? Eh, da ste samo znali praviti prijatelje umjesto tenkova. Vidite sta vam je vase ogromno oruzje napravilo. Izgubili ste povjerenje svih okolo vas. Cak vas ni Crnogorci nece. I vi jos uvjek krivite sve druge a ne sebe.
seimour17 8 months ago
so wait. sactions on Serdia. when it was a civil war in Bosnia between Bosnian Muslims Croats and Serbs?
PowerfulOz1 11 months ago
There you go again. You Serbs insist in making everyone as guilty as you are. May I just remind you: Who sent the tanks and army to kill people in other republics? Remember the kilometers long column of tanks from Belgrade sent to destroy Croatian Vukovar. No one else had the army but you - Serbs. Only occupators tell other nations you cannot have your independence and freedom. Has anyone ever told Serbs ; 'You cannot have your independence and your freedom. You just don't understand, do you?
seimour17 1 year ago
@seimour17 you are fucking retarded. the issue is not serbs denying croats and muslims the right to secede frmo yugoslavia, the problem was that the croats and muslims wanted to force 2 million serbs living in Croatia and Bosnia to secede with them, when those serbs wanted to keep living in yugoslavia. if croats and muslims no longer wanted to live in yugoslavia and have the right to secede, then serbs had the right to secede from croatia and bosnia since they didn't want to live in those states
yugo91aesop 8 months ago
@yugo91aesop - Hmmm.. what to say about the polite and highly intelligent contribution you are making to this debate?! I think I'll let your words and actions speak for themselves!!!! I guess you are making the same claim about Kosovo Serbs. Yeap! The whole world is wrong and you are right. Obviously you are ignorant to the fact that it is the small minority of people like you that has done more harm to Serbia and Serbs than Croatia, Bosnia, NATO or anyone else in the world.
seimour17 8 months ago
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seimour17 8 months ago
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seimour17 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@yugo91aesop - Hmmm.. what to say about the polite and highly intelligent contribution you are making to this debate?! I think I'll let your words and actions speak for themselves!!!! I guess you are making the same claim about Kosovo Serbs. Yeap! The whole world is wrong and you are right. Obviously you are ignorant to the fact that it is the small minority of people like you that has done more harm to Serbia and Serbs than Croatia, Bosnia, NATO or anyone else in the world.
seimour17 8 months ago
Comment removed
seimour17 8 months ago
@seimour17 so a minority demands freedom - and they should simply get it? watch this documentry from start to finish again and have a real good think to yourself - presently you are both biased and brainwashed and full of hate!
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@rugbyboy198127 "...biased and brainwashed and full of hate..." I am not. I can assure you. I still have many Serbs as my friends. Yes, that is true. However, talking about being 'biased and brainwashed' how can you call such concocted bull..it - a documentary. It has been so selctively edited that is resembles more a commedy show than documentary. How can you belive the people who are responsibel for you having to leave your country of birth. In any war the first victim is - the truth!!!
seimour17 5 months ago
@seimour17 yes as you quite correctly say the first victim is the truth - now which version of events has the western media portrayed/supported over the last 20 or so years? when you see lybia etc do you believe what the politicians are telling you? hugging gaddafi one minute then demonising him the next... you think they have the interests of lybians at heart, you think they tell us the truth? ofcourse not - the fact that the west overwhelmingly supported that liar begovic shows what happened!?
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@seimour17 look the killing and massacres on both sides is truely awful and I recognise that the serbs did perhaps commit the worst atrocities by virtue of numbers - but this isn't about numbers - it's about who has a just grievence! the croats slaughtered serbs during ww2, have escaped being punished unlike the nazis and then begovic supporetd by islamic extremists attempted to ethnically cleanse bosnia of serbs - btw croats also murdered muslims too - fanatic catholic nazi croats - disgusting!
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@seimour17 really the truth of all this is that the serbs have been the real victims - victims of a political game - kosovo is where all the serbian heritage is - all the orthadox churches, graveyards etc, it is an outrage what happened to serbs in bosnia and kosovo, and no wonder they retaliated with such anger! the serbs were the first line of defence aginst the nazis, brave heros and look how the west and europe has repaid her, by tearing her limb from limb and pretending that she is aggresor
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
@rugbyboy, Please, try to understand; Believe me I understand your love for your heritage. I understand what Kosovo means to Serbs. However please understand the reality. Over the last several decades Serbian women had one child per family - Albanians had 10-12 . Within few decades Serbian province of Kosovo became populated by Siptars. Therefore it is now their land. You cant blame for this Western politics or NATO. Blame your own women who don't reproduce enough Serbs to keep your own lands.
seimour17 5 months ago
@seimour17 i strongly disagree with your arguement - this population change is within the last generation - btw not only increased birth rate of muslims but also tito stopped serbs from moving back to the areas they had been driven from in ww2 - he feared them - all did irrationally just cos serb was biggest, strongest nation in yugoslavioa - ironically they did this to try and protect yugoslavia but they have destroyed it! within 50 years - yet israel have claim to land they left 2000 years ago
rugbyboy198127 5 months ago
and in 9/11 usa got a big muslim fist in their ass
barnpassaren 1 year ago
if serbs were agressors, it means that serbian people who were killed and massacred during the war were killed by their own army? it doesnt make sense. you need to realize that three of the sides are to blame. muslims and croatian nazis used the media as their major weapon playing by the rule Devide and rule gaining worlds sympathies that way
pookie2726 1 year ago 3
the muslims start more shit then anyone, the serbs although didnt speak up for themselves or have the proper reporting, noone in this is innocent, croatians , serbs slovenians , muslims all commited genocide , the americans only wanted to report on the serb attrocities though
pjicleanair420 1 year ago 2
according by those people, genocide in former yugoslavia caused by serbs never happened...
This is ridiculous... oh yeah serbian made documentary makes sense...
liloxe 1 year ago
@liloxe Where exactly do you see that it is said that there was no serbian killings?
Of course they were ... It's just that the image sent to the world is extremely biased, and said that the Serbs were the aggressors and the Bosnians were purely the victims. Which is far far from true ...
And since you're an obviously biased Albanian idiot and I see that all argument is futile I'll just ask you not to speak up anymore ...
sargerasa 1 year ago
@liloxe Man I'm not Serbian, I am Bosnian and lived there and in Serbia, all three sides are equally to blame, Franjo Alija Slobodan svi su izasli iz kaveza i provokacijom i maskom zastite svog naroda klali drugi narod i svi su ga popusili na kraju. Ni jedan nije mogao da zivi sa slikama zla sto su ucinili na svoj narod.
btn085 1 year ago
The Truth of the Yugoslav wars lies somewhere between the two documentaries "Death of Yugoslavia and this one...in any civil war there is going to be a certain bias depending on how you look at the conflict.
EdwardRommel 1 year ago 5
@EdwardRommel
i agree
Mastakilla91 1 year ago