The one person who could reveal the most about Lena's state of mind is her closest friend Bonnie Langford but she isn't included at all in this docu. though I'm sure Lena must have confided in her.
I did find out some info. on the Solomon's, (google 'the wrath of Solomon- a life in music').
During the Pebble Mill interview with Lena and her manager (episode 2), Lena is confronted with a picture of her younger self in a hat. This clip was used in another documentary which I have a copy, and Lena can clearly be heard (off-screen) laughing at the picture. However, in this documentary Lena’s laugh has been erased. Why would anyone making a factual documentary alter actual footage? There is only ever one motive for altering evidence and that is to mislead.
I'm sure the agent wasn't a bad person or anything, but she does come across as a bit of a cold fish. Maybe it's that upper-middle class clipped, English accent though. Can only echo what others have written: She was far too young to be separated from her mother. Having said that, we now know that early fame can have a highly destructive, sinister effect on a child's development. But this kind of thing wasn't discussed then - probably her parents had the best intentions for her.
@aerialkate Like many people on here you must consider your childhood to have been so perfect that you now feel well adjusted and normal enough to be able to analyse and judge other people and generally pontificate unqualified nonsense, based on nothing more than speculation and conjecture. Lena said her illness was not connected to her unusual childhood - until you can prove otherwise, please try to find enough wisdom and decency to respect her opinion.
@newagemisfit - Not sure why you singled me out as a target for your sarcastic, rude post. Perhaps because I was polite and not dogmatic in my opinions - a target for a bully who didn't want to confront the more strident posters? I qualified my post by saying that the agent wasn't a bad person; there was one 'maybe' ; and I wrote that the agent's pattern of speech may have been misleading. My childhood was not perfect (whose is?) but it's a fact that early fame often damages performers.
@aerialkate But, it isn’t a ‘fact’ that early fame damages performers, is it? It’s just something you say is so – what evidence do you base this supposed statement of fact on? Perhaps I was a little sarcastic, but I’m not the one inferring people ruined Lena’s life – even if you have generously allowed - that they ‘probably’ didn’t intend to. No one knows what the cause of anorexia is, but it is a provable fact that it’s not fame.
@newagemisfit Fame is the cause of mental illnessses from people who have been child stars.There is a long list to prove this: Judy Garland/Frances Gumm,Michael Jackson,Dana Plato and Gary Coleman from 'diff'rent strokes etc etc etc etc-the list is endless.
@ThePearlofeire At the end of this documentary (part 6) it is claimed that after the film had been made the Chief Medical Officer launched an investigation into the methods of care at the Montreux Clinic. This written statement was and is entirely false, as the investigation referred to began in 1997 and was concluded in Dec 1999 with the clinic being ordered to cease treatment by Jan 2000.
@newagemisfit Name your source,you could be right but that does not discredit this documentary or the newspaper articles that mentioned Dorothy Solomon putting Lena then aged 10 on a diet and the wrongness of taking her away from her home and family or not having herlive with people who actually cared about her such as Martha and David Fisher.Also exposong her to a hectic schedule at too young an age.
@newagemisfit I know full well that the clinic was discredited and it does seem very strange in its methods.But either way it doesn,t discredit the program and other sources that I have mentioned.I don,t like how it seems that you like this Dorothy Solomon woman.Can you at least not like someone who dislikes children?
@ThePearlofeire I don't know enough about what went on at the clinic to make any judgement. All I would say is it seems that Lena's physical condition was improved there.
I have seen no evidence that anyone in Lena's life disliked children. I do know that some women are unable to have children and I imagine such a person might feel uncomfortable if asked on camera why they are not a parent.
@newagemisfit Dorothy said in a magazine or newspaper interview that she didn,t care much for children,not in this tv programme,although Dorothys body language wasn, positive-to say the least.I don,t know whether or not Dorothy but if she decided not to have kids of her own,its not relevant.She was a complete stranger.Bonnie done better in life because she had her family with her all the time and her childhood schedule doesn,t seem to be as hectic as Lena,s Michael Jacksons or Judy Garlands.
@ThePearlofeire I think what happened to Lena opened DS up to all kinds of hindsight fuelled criticism. She would have been well aware the programme makers were looking for a ‘wicked stepmother’ character to blame. I do not think though that her actions in caring for Lena (that we know about) were excessive.
@newagemisfit The programme makers were not looking to blame her,Dorothy Solomon incriminated herself in this programme by showing a genuinely horribly cold attitude and not being sorry one iota -and in past magazine/newspaper articles from the 70,s.
@newagemisfit The fact remains that Dorothy was not morally or justifiably entitled to take Lena and make money from Lena,s talent even if her parents handed Lena over to her,although there are indications that Lena,s parents were duped as Dorothy could 'talk the talk' so to speak and Lena parents were just regular working class people.
@newagemisfit The wealthy exploit and look down upon the rich all of the time and can give out vibes that they know better.Foster agencies would always make sure that children stay with adults who are comfortable with children and its obvious that Dorothy didn,t even know the basics of child and adolescent psychology.
@newagemisfit Not saying Lena,s parents could have known this would result in anorexia as it it more likely that it would result in just depression,which is what they could have known. Anorexia came in as there is this emphasis on 'slender is beautiful,words were said to Lena to go on a diet but images are stringer(images of slenderness being around her that she seemed to take more notice of).
@ThePearlofeire Dorothy Solomon never ever cared about Lena,It was all about business.Lena helped make Dorothy stay very rich.Dorothy actions were excessive particularly when it is in connection with a child/young person that we are talking about here.
@newagemisfit Had this been a 21 year old woman or man,things would be different.Lena was able to start the anorexic behaviours because there was no one making sure she ate.Even when not in the anorexic mindset, parents/foster parents/legal guardians make sure children have 3 meals a day,that is why the family eats together.
@newagemisfit Dorothy Solomon was an adult,people have every right to be tough on her.Did you know that Dorothy didn,t let her play with other children with the exception of a short while with Bonnie.Children and teenagers need friendship for normal happinees and I beleive sound mental health.
@newagemisfit The Montreux Clinic seemed to have temporarily at least helped Lena.But it did seem odd to me from what I have seen in other documentaries made in the early 1990,s.There was a patient who was a young woman who when slightly recovered was put to help a young boy with anorexia.This young woman as it happens was Scottish too.
@newagemisfit Something I read is that there is this theory that anorexics may have aspergers which is very mild autism,perhaps part of the reason for Lena becoming anorexic and maybe even the talent too.
@newagemisfit the talent on its own wouldn,t destroy a person,it would be the fact that a very young or vulnerable person would be in demand to perform all of the time and suffers stress as a result.
@ThePearlofeire "Give Food a Chance arises from the clinical experience of Dr Julie O’Toole, MD, MPH, over more than a decade, of treatment for eating disorders in children and young adults. Dr O’Toole rejects former theories that claim such disorders are caused by poor parenting, issues of control, rejection of adulthood, or society’s oppression of women. Instead, the author’s thesis is that anorexia in particular is a chronic, highly heritable brain disorder."
@newagemisfit There IS this brain disorder/biological part to it(an Australian woman I sent messages to has this theory from her research)-so I am mot saying its wrong.But this does not discount the social part to this situation which is what I was discussing.Wth respect to yourself and Dr O'Toole: far more than one psychiatrist consistently state that the young people who become anorexic or bulimic have a lack of control in their lives.
@newagemisfit Poor parenting: Lena was a long distance away from her own parents -so couldn,t have received any parenting-and Dorothy openly admitted in an article not liking children,Lena,s developed alcoholism-this points to Hilda having had depression in her life.
@newagemisfit Rejection of adulthood:it varies. Alot of the times it is the pressure to succeed that contributes to eating disorders and other mental health problems.Lastly:societys oppression of women:a young girl doesn,t suddenly wake up one day and say that she feels oppressed. Its much more insidious and girls don,t realise this as we grow up with it and don,t know any better when still children.
@newagemisfit Its the general acceptance that being slender is beautiful and fuller figure women are never put on a pedestal in the fashion,pop music or on TV that appeals to young people-obviously on its own,it is not the cause.I should add that there are males with eating disorders as I think I have mentioned in earlier comments.Depressive mental illnesses often come from a lack of love and stress.
I really wish people would stop putting the blame for what happened to Lena on her parents. They were a poor family who probably imagined that their daughter could have opportunities that they would never have if they allowed her to pursue stardom. I do agree that her agent did not appear very well suited to caring for a small child. However, imagine this: She might very well have stayed on the island, developed anorexia anyway, and no one would ever have heard her beautiful voice. RIP Lena
too much too soon, quite simply killed this girl, and dont forget the agents greasing their palms with her fame,,,,,,and down fall, where were they when she had nothing!!!
@cooking23 To uproot Lena from her island home and send her out into the big, bad world at ten years of age was far, far too early. If only they had waited just 4 or 5 years more she might still be with us.
I can only assume that with her astonishing voice and confident stage presence, they just tended to forget how young she was.
I have to point out that it is actually an agents job to make money for the artists on their books and for themselves, otherwise they would go out of business.
According to Wikipedia, Lena was born in Greenock, Scotland a then shortly afterwards the family moved to Rothesay where she grew up. Is this correct?
@Utubeifuwant Lena’s Italian Grandfather moved to Rothesay on the Isle of Bute from Italy and Lena’s mother was a Rothesay lass whose maiden name was Jordan. I think the reason Lena was born in Greenock is because that’s where the maternity hospital was located for the Island.
@newagemisfit Thanks for clarifying that and for the info on Hilda Zavaroni which is otherwisw quite sparse.
She doesn't appear to have had much influence on Lena's life, all the decisions being taken by Victor, as in 'I decided to go for it'' and not 'We...' Had she no say when Dorothy assumed responsibility for Lena? It seems incredible that she let her daughter go off round the world with someone she hardly knew.
Hilda Zavaroni died in 1989 from a tranquilizer overdose Wikipedia
oh, wow! I had no idea who this was when I started watching the clip and when she took the first note i got chills down my spine - what a voice! such amazing power and body to it. RIP adorable!
I remember sitting in ma maws hoose in Edinburgh I wiz only 7 we had a bkack and white meter telly;the one you put ten bob bit in te back fur it ta work.We awe sat roond the telly and watched wee Lena sing on Opetunity Knocks with Huey Green she wiz fantastic.She sung mama hes making eyes at me.We heard that song and the next day nearly awe oor street wiz sining this song adults and wains alike.Lena Zavaroni you are a STAR and you still shine bright in my memory,you will always be in BW tv to me
@unlikeanyotherhuman It was her family, especially one of her greedy cousins, that financially bled Lena dry. Her Father is still a raving alcoholic, and her deceased Mother was a Cocaine addict.
Lena was emotionally damaged by them before she ever stepped onto a stage. Vert sick people, the whole family riddled with addiction and behavioural problems.
I think she was destroyed by anorexia and stardom at an early age. In fact, I think her anorexia stemmed from the pressures of being a child star. And no doubt her awful manager worked the poor thing to death. It was a combination of things. But if she'd had a life before fame, a real childhood and had been allowed to develop as a performer before being thrust into the limelight maybe things would have turned out different.
Who taught her all those silly hand and dance movements? And those exaggerated facial expressions? She didn't need to do that crap; her talent spoke for itself. And those dorky little girl dresses she had to wear, the knee socks and hair ribbons, and that big hair, ugh! But I guess she did whatever she was told to do. Someone says in this documentary that she "wasn't depressed." She was obviously deeply depressed and unhappy. She hid it so well; that's typical of anorexics
@cynthiacher The dresses Lena wear where fashionable in the 70s but in the 80s they where not that agent of Lena's was part to blame for Lena life and i am only guessing this agent also told her what to wear and how to express herself when singing tho i agree with you this was not necessary as Lena's voice was one in a million and she did not need to do that,,
My name is anna, and I have anorexia, I'm seeing my dietician today. i really want to get better, but I have no idea where to begin. I can't see it happening but i know i can do it, i hate whats it come to in my life, a world controlled by food, but I'm stuck. good luck to anyone trying to wake up from this nightmare x
Victor your daughter was very talented little girl who blosomed into a beautiful young lady you must have been very proud of her she will always be rememberd what a fantastic voice she had R.I.P Lena!!!
Dorothy, if you are dead, I hope the ending was slow and resplendent of images if sins committed against an innocent child. See(C) You(U) Next(N) Tuesday (T)
It was not Lena's mum and dads fault i blame that horrible woman manager who drove her to unhappiness and never let her live a normal childhood. Lena's parents where never with her because she was more or less taken from them.
victor is my uncle. he is very sensitive about what happend . and back then there was no security over your children, you left them to explore the world. and thats what my uncle did and even to this day he doesnt regret his desisions of sending her to go live with her agent because lena forfilled her dreams of becoming a hudge star. but please , please be considerate and dont leave nasty comments. thank you so very much xx
hi i was just wondering if victor really was your uncle as in some way im related to lena on my dads side my dads family name is clarke does it ring a bell i think she was my dads second cousin all the best
we arent blood related but i have known him all my life and my grandad who is 68 years old has known victor since he was 7 when my grandad moved to rothsay so... ya know , he kinda is in way :L why ya ask ?<3
So tragic that dorothy got her hand's on lena if only she had met a better agent she might of been taken care of properly and still be with us today, you are missed lena by many many people may you rest in peace............
"better agent," ha, is there really such a thing?...I'm deeply skeptical of anyone who makes money off of child labor--that's what it is, no matter how benign the masque--but I understand your sentiment--given the situation, a nurturing & ethical person would have been better than the scum that banked off that poor girl.--there are very few child entertainers that aren't scarred from the experience (& spectators are in some way complicate).
True, people can get stressed also when over 18 so psychological support is always needed by anyone.
I am pretty sure that any person who is or has been famous as a singer has been singing locally since being a child,it is just that they are not brought to massive public attention as a child.
Thats seem to be my view too,I note that her manager said in a harsh tone that she now sticks to dogs and horses and that children were just not in her plan.Also that she didin,t want to take on a 9 year old in the first place which seems to mean that she thinks all kids are just bold and this is Before she even met Lena.
Notice how her family still smile when they talk about her! She must have been a genuinely lovely person for them to think so fondly of her. That agent should never have been allowed to care for her. I can't have children but I love them to bits. That witch has obviously no maternal instinct and has ruined a beautiful persons life just to get her hands on money.
I completely agree with you. Half way through this, I had completely forgotten about the tragedy that was about to unfold because I got so caught up in their excitement. They must have all loved her so much.
Why did they hand her over to this woman I will never understand - and even more so how she even admits that she didn't want to look after a child - and has no remorse - it would be good to have a proper documentary done that really examines and portrays what really happened to destroy this lovely child, woman.
The manager said that she did not want to take on a child but then she(dorothy) did it anyway,so that makes me think that dorothy,s motivation was the money she made from managing Lena.
I looked up Hughie Green I was remembering all the show's when I was young and watching America's Got Talent. Since I live in North America I didn't know she had passed till now. She was a great Scottish Talent and that agent should never have been given so much control of her. My heart goes out to her family and Rothsay is a wonderful place for kids.
I grew up in the same town as her (Rothesay) and went to the same school, although she'd left some years before I was there. She would enter local talent contests, and eventually they barred her from doing so because she won all of them hands down. People still talk about her, her cousin sings there and there are still a number of Zavaroni's restaurants dotted around. It must have been terrifying for a 10 yr old to go from what was (and is) a very small holiday island to the big time so quickly.
@wiseoldlady7 They treated her like a human doll. the horrific outfits and adult songs to entertain old ladies. i suppose they kind of lost interest when she went through puberty. Anorexia inhibits puberty and growth
Anorexia is a psychological disorder and really needs to be admitted by the sufferer to themselves before the correct treatment can be applied. There will always be a problem addressing the issue with a sufferer because a dilemma often occurs with the individual finding their freedom being limited. To achieve the ultimate treatment the patient really needs to be in agreement with his/her appointment psychologist/psychiatrist.
It would be interesting and more than likely very sad to find out how instrumental her agent was in sending all the wrong messages to a little girl that wanted to please everyone. She more thank likely figured out that she had no control of her career, money, love life etc.. but the one thing she could control was her weight and it just snowballed from there. When "mental illness" is suggested you have to figure malnutrition also played a part in that as well. Just so tragic.
Wow! I had remembered a powerful singing cute little redheaded girl who was on the Carol Burnette show and and wondered what happened to her. I couldn't remember her name. Today I was looking up Roses and Rainbows sung by Julie Budd and saw this other woman singing it and low and behold she was that same little readheaded girl from way back. What an absolute shame to find out she is dead. Her "agent" was a very prolific role model at a vulnerable age for this girl. cont...
Sometimes people are out of the reach of family, or friends, or outstanding therapists. Heroic acts by family and friends cannot save them. And that must hurt.
There should be some sort of law against child 'stars' They are give workloads that would burn out most adults at a time when their bodies and brains are developing...when the fame dries up in their teens, they crash. There are countless examples of former child actors/singers coming unstuck and dying in young adulthood
@TomthatiscalledTom@sophiekitten you're right.how could a parent send their 10 year old child away?. she never sttod a chance.hopefully she is at peace now.
09.43....she sticks to dogs and horses and ...a 10 yr old Lena Zav. Just another user....and they all want to create the idea it was anorexia : NO! NO! : it was the adults and their exploitation of her ; they used her for dreams and money."Lucille Ball" says dad??; and thebitch London agent. TRAGIC!!
Hal, we are all upset over Lena's tragic death and we all express it in different ways. Sometimes it is easy to blame the parents and others... but Anorexia is a tragic disorder striking many people, not just show biz personalities. I understand how enraged you must feel over her senseless death. Me too, especially since having a personal connection with Lena since the very beginning. To blame the family only pours more grief on them.
What do YOU know about it, mikeylorene? Maybe you're the one who should get a life. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it doesn't correspond with yours.
For your information her agent had a hysterectomy due to cervical cancer at the age of 28 and was unable to have children of her own... she just didn't want to discuss what wasn't relevant to Lena's story. You shouldn't judge those you don't know.
With what money to call home everyday? And with what phone? Also, she was probably very busy... But yeah, I wasn't even born that time, I'm just assuming.
Where you actually there or are you just very interested about Lena Zavaroni?
I am just very interested in Lena Zavaroni since I found out about her from this documentary and a few other sources.What I meant by"nothing can replace a young childs interaction with her own family daily" was not telephone calls but actually being with her family and there was no necessity for fame until or unless she decided to a public career at the age of 18.I am quite surprised that any parent would agree to let their child go live with strangers.
Also as I think I have said before there are musical theatre for children so that they could develop their talent,perhaps the nearest to the Zavaronis is in the city of Glasgow.
Destroyed by her parents(?)....DAD. Look at the glasses; open-necked shirt; suicidal wife ; isle life ; guitar background. Have questions even been asked? Who ran this exploitation show? BIG ISSUE : FINANCIAL AUDIT? Lets get a statement. Is there a convention for these folks : Jackson Dad Et Al
God love her deeply,hindsight is....etc,there were probably hundreds of equally good singers round and about,it is probably their grat fortune for the most part that they were never discovered.
Dads do their best,the poor child was only 10,and agents,well agents are what they are.
I can remember Lena Zavaroni winning Opportunity Knocks back in 1974. A really talented wee girl. Having lived abroad for over 25 years it has not been easy to keep up with events in my native Scotland and I was absolutely devastated to learn what had happended to her after watching this documentary. God bless you Lena.
The Agent is a cold cold person. Victor really didn't know what to do for the best. He didn't know what the consequences were. And also don't forget that initially Lena wanted to go and do all the work, she also didn't know that it meant going away for a long time, she was too young to understand. Perhaps if a family member had gone too !!! But they were only working classs people and were following advice from Dorothy Solomon.
Are you all making your comments on personnel experience or from what you have seen or heard in the press? I know Dorothy very well and caan assure you that whilst she may have been an extremely formidable lady she has a heart of gold and is an exceptionally sweet person on the inside. Please don't judge people from what you read or see in the press.
I know someone who went to alot of trouble to contact Dorothy and travelled to an arranged appointment and Dorothy never turned up. Also she seems to feel she played no part in Lenas problems. I don't agree she took this child away and paraded her like a side show round the world and all over television and your not telling me she didn't do it for the money or the prestige. She could have done more to help by noticing if Lena was unhappy and by helping with family visits etc
Sounds very sad but she was my hero as I wanted to be like her. She was 5 years older than me so I suppose I looked up to her.I remember her and Bonnie Langford being on the front of the TV Times as they had a show together in the 70s.
The one person who could reveal the most about Lena's state of mind is her closest friend Bonnie Langford but she isn't included at all in this docu. though I'm sure Lena must have confided in her.
I did find out some info. on the Solomon's, (google 'the wrath of Solomon- a life in music').
Very disturbing reading.
Utubeifuwant 3 days ago
So so sad, I am similar in age to Lena and grew up loving her. She was my idol. Gone too soon RIP Lena, never forgotten xx
Sassy8528 1 month ago
She was so amazing so sad her career went wrong she would have been a big star today i wish you were still lena we all miss you.
MsFanmail 1 month ago 3
During the Pebble Mill interview with Lena and her manager (episode 2), Lena is confronted with a picture of her younger self in a hat. This clip was used in another documentary which I have a copy, and Lena can clearly be heard (off-screen) laughing at the picture. However, in this documentary Lena’s laugh has been erased. Why would anyone making a factual documentary alter actual footage? There is only ever one motive for altering evidence and that is to mislead.
newagemisfit 3 months ago
I'm sure the agent wasn't a bad person or anything, but she does come across as a bit of a cold fish. Maybe it's that upper-middle class clipped, English accent though. Can only echo what others have written: She was far too young to be separated from her mother. Having said that, we now know that early fame can have a highly destructive, sinister effect on a child's development. But this kind of thing wasn't discussed then - probably her parents had the best intentions for her.
aerialkate 3 months ago
@aerialkate Like many people on here you must consider your childhood to have been so perfect that you now feel well adjusted and normal enough to be able to analyse and judge other people and generally pontificate unqualified nonsense, based on nothing more than speculation and conjecture. Lena said her illness was not connected to her unusual childhood - until you can prove otherwise, please try to find enough wisdom and decency to respect her opinion.
newagemisfit 3 months ago
@newagemisfit - Not sure why you singled me out as a target for your sarcastic, rude post. Perhaps because I was polite and not dogmatic in my opinions - a target for a bully who didn't want to confront the more strident posters? I qualified my post by saying that the agent wasn't a bad person; there was one 'maybe' ; and I wrote that the agent's pattern of speech may have been misleading. My childhood was not perfect (whose is?) but it's a fact that early fame often damages performers.
aerialkate 3 months ago
@aerialkate But, it isn’t a ‘fact’ that early fame damages performers, is it? It’s just something you say is so – what evidence do you base this supposed statement of fact on? Perhaps I was a little sarcastic, but I’m not the one inferring people ruined Lena’s life – even if you have generously allowed - that they ‘probably’ didn’t intend to. No one knows what the cause of anorexia is, but it is a provable fact that it’s not fame.
newagemisfit 3 months ago
@newagemisfit Fame is the cause of mental illnessses from people who have been child stars.There is a long list to prove this: Judy Garland/Frances Gumm,Michael Jackson,Dana Plato and Gary Coleman from 'diff'rent strokes etc etc etc etc-the list is endless.
ThePearlofeire 2 months ago
@ThePearlofeire At the end of this documentary (part 6) it is claimed that after the film had been made the Chief Medical Officer launched an investigation into the methods of care at the Montreux Clinic. This written statement was and is entirely false, as the investigation referred to began in 1997 and was concluded in Dec 1999 with the clinic being ordered to cease treatment by Jan 2000.
newagemisfit 1 month ago
@newagemisfit Name your source,you could be right but that does not discredit this documentary or the newspaper articles that mentioned Dorothy Solomon putting Lena then aged 10 on a diet and the wrongness of taking her away from her home and family or not having herlive with people who actually cared about her such as Martha and David Fisher.Also exposong her to a hectic schedule at too young an age.
ThePearlofeire 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit I know full well that the clinic was discredited and it does seem very strange in its methods.But either way it doesn,t discredit the program and other sources that I have mentioned.I don,t like how it seems that you like this Dorothy Solomon woman.Can you at least not like someone who dislikes children?
ThePearlofeire 4 weeks ago
@ThePearlofeire I don't know enough about what went on at the clinic to make any judgement. All I would say is it seems that Lena's physical condition was improved there.
I have seen no evidence that anyone in Lena's life disliked children. I do know that some women are unable to have children and I imagine such a person might feel uncomfortable if asked on camera why they are not a parent.
newagemisfit 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Dorothy said in a magazine or newspaper interview that she didn,t care much for children,not in this tv programme,although Dorothys body language wasn, positive-to say the least.I don,t know whether or not Dorothy but if she decided not to have kids of her own,its not relevant.She was a complete stranger.Bonnie done better in life because she had her family with her all the time and her childhood schedule doesn,t seem to be as hectic as Lena,s Michael Jacksons or Judy Garlands.
ThePearlofeire 4 weeks ago
@ThePearlofeire I think what happened to Lena opened DS up to all kinds of hindsight fuelled criticism. She would have been well aware the programme makers were looking for a ‘wicked stepmother’ character to blame. I do not think though that her actions in caring for Lena (that we know about) were excessive.
newagemisfit 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit The programme makers were not looking to blame her,Dorothy Solomon incriminated herself in this programme by showing a genuinely horribly cold attitude and not being sorry one iota -and in past magazine/newspaper articles from the 70,s.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit The fact remains that Dorothy was not morally or justifiably entitled to take Lena and make money from Lena,s talent even if her parents handed Lena over to her,although there are indications that Lena,s parents were duped as Dorothy could 'talk the talk' so to speak and Lena parents were just regular working class people.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit The wealthy exploit and look down upon the rich all of the time and can give out vibes that they know better.Foster agencies would always make sure that children stay with adults who are comfortable with children and its obvious that Dorothy didn,t even know the basics of child and adolescent psychology.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Not saying Lena,s parents could have known this would result in anorexia as it it more likely that it would result in just depression,which is what they could have known. Anorexia came in as there is this emphasis on 'slender is beautiful,words were said to Lena to go on a diet but images are stringer(images of slenderness being around her that she seemed to take more notice of).
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@ThePearlofeire Dorothy Solomon never ever cared about Lena,It was all about business.Lena helped make Dorothy stay very rich.Dorothy actions were excessive particularly when it is in connection with a child/young person that we are talking about here.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Had this been a 21 year old woman or man,things would be different.Lena was able to start the anorexic behaviours because there was no one making sure she ate.Even when not in the anorexic mindset, parents/foster parents/legal guardians make sure children have 3 meals a day,that is why the family eats together.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Dorothy Solomon was an adult,people have every right to be tough on her.Did you know that Dorothy didn,t let her play with other children with the exception of a short while with Bonnie.Children and teenagers need friendship for normal happinees and I beleive sound mental health.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit The Montreux Clinic seemed to have temporarily at least helped Lena.But it did seem odd to me from what I have seen in other documentaries made in the early 1990,s.There was a patient who was a young woman who when slightly recovered was put to help a young boy with anorexia.This young woman as it happens was Scottish too.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Something I read is that there is this theory that anorexics may have aspergers which is very mild autism,perhaps part of the reason for Lena becoming anorexic and maybe even the talent too.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
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newagemisfit 3 weeks ago
@newagemisfit the talent on its own wouldn,t destroy a person,it would be the fact that a very young or vulnerable person would be in demand to perform all of the time and suffers stress as a result.
ThePearlofeire 3 weeks ago
@ThePearlofeire "Give Food a Chance arises from the clinical experience of Dr Julie O’Toole, MD, MPH, over more than a decade, of treatment for eating disorders in children and young adults. Dr O’Toole rejects former theories that claim such disorders are caused by poor parenting, issues of control, rejection of adulthood, or society’s oppression of women. Instead, the author’s thesis is that anorexia in particular is a chronic, highly heritable brain disorder."
newagemisfit 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit There IS this brain disorder/biological part to it(an Australian woman I sent messages to has this theory from her research)-so I am mot saying its wrong.But this does not discount the social part to this situation which is what I was discussing.Wth respect to yourself and Dr O'Toole: far more than one psychiatrist consistently state that the young people who become anorexic or bulimic have a lack of control in their lives.
ThePearlofeire 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Poor parenting: Lena was a long distance away from her own parents -so couldn,t have received any parenting-and Dorothy openly admitted in an article not liking children,Lena,s developed alcoholism-this points to Hilda having had depression in her life.
ThePearlofeire 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Rejection of adulthood:it varies. Alot of the times it is the pressure to succeed that contributes to eating disorders and other mental health problems.Lastly:societys oppression of women:a young girl doesn,t suddenly wake up one day and say that she feels oppressed. Its much more insidious and girls don,t realise this as we grow up with it and don,t know any better when still children.
ThePearlofeire 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit Its the general acceptance that being slender is beautiful and fuller figure women are never put on a pedestal in the fashion,pop music or on TV that appeals to young people-obviously on its own,it is not the cause.I should add that there are males with eating disorders as I think I have mentioned in earlier comments.Depressive mental illnesses often come from a lack of love and stress.
ThePearlofeire 4 weeks ago
@newagemisfit It has been proved otherwise...
ThePearlofeire 2 months ago
i got skinny as 3stone..till i was ammited into a ed unit..but i fear im going bk agian :( rib dear lena
nekokitty666 3 months ago
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newagemisfit 4 months ago
I ve stuck to Dogs and Horses...... say it all for me. Poor Lena
nwlman 5 months ago
I really wish people would stop putting the blame for what happened to Lena on her parents. They were a poor family who probably imagined that their daughter could have opportunities that they would never have if they allowed her to pursue stardom. I do agree that her agent did not appear very well suited to caring for a small child. However, imagine this: She might very well have stayed on the island, developed anorexia anyway, and no one would ever have heard her beautiful voice. RIP Lena
jswerdel 7 months ago 3
I don't think anyone was to blame specifically. Anorexia is a complex condition not easily attributable to one reason.
PotterSpurn 9 months ago 2
too much too soon, quite simply killed this girl, and dont forget the agents greasing their palms with her fame,,,,,,and down fall, where were they when she had nothing!!!
cooking23 1 year ago
@cooking23 To uproot Lena from her island home and send her out into the big, bad world at ten years of age was far, far too early. If only they had waited just 4 or 5 years more she might still be with us.
I can only assume that with her astonishing voice and confident stage presence, they just tended to forget how young she was.
I have to point out that it is actually an agents job to make money for the artists on their books and for themselves, otherwise they would go out of business.
Utubeifuwant 1 year ago
According to Wikipedia, Lena was born in Greenock, Scotland a then shortly afterwards the family moved to Rothesay where she grew up. Is this correct?
Utubeifuwant 1 year ago
@Utubeifuwant Lena’s Italian Grandfather moved to Rothesay on the Isle of Bute from Italy and Lena’s mother was a Rothesay lass whose maiden name was Jordan. I think the reason Lena was born in Greenock is because that’s where the maternity hospital was located for the Island.
newagemisfit 1 year ago
@newagemisfit Thanks for clarifying that and for the info on Hilda Zavaroni which is otherwisw quite sparse.
She doesn't appear to have had much influence on Lena's life, all the decisions being taken by Victor, as in 'I decided to go for it'' and not 'We...' Had she no say when Dorothy assumed responsibility for Lena? It seems incredible that she let her daughter go off round the world with someone she hardly knew.
Hilda Zavaroni died in 1989 from a tranquilizer overdose Wikipedia
Utubeifuwant 1 year ago
Man! Am I out of touch! I had no idea she was dead! There goes another part of my childhood.
RAIDERS58th 1 year ago
oh, wow! I had no idea who this was when I started watching the clip and when she took the first note i got chills down my spine - what a voice! such amazing power and body to it. RIP adorable!
MLivingbyaprayer 1 year ago
Dorothy should be arrested for murder.
Kousaburo 1 year ago
I remember sitting in ma maws hoose in Edinburgh I wiz only 7 we had a bkack and white meter telly;the one you put ten bob bit in te back fur it ta work.We awe sat roond the telly and watched wee Lena sing on Opetunity Knocks with Huey Green she wiz fantastic.She sung mama hes making eyes at me.We heard that song and the next day nearly awe oor street wiz sining this song adults and wains alike.Lena Zavaroni you are a STAR and you still shine bright in my memory,you will always be in BW tv to me
sergiesmax1 1 year ago
@sergiesmax1 omg its like reading ' Oor Wullie' thanks : )
alisonsdragonfly 2 months ago
i cant understand why she never made it big here in australia
lake40 1 year ago
its not nice to say but where her mom and dad ... only that bitch of an agent old bag ,,, poor kid Lena
mushroom2you 1 year ago
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@unlikeanyotherhuman It was her family, especially one of her greedy cousins, that financially bled Lena dry. Her Father is still a raving alcoholic, and her deceased Mother was a Cocaine addict.
Lena was emotionally damaged by them before she ever stepped onto a stage. Vert sick people, the whole family riddled with addiction and behavioural problems.
TheESCALADO 1 year ago
I think she was destroyed by anorexia and stardom at an early age. In fact, I think her anorexia stemmed from the pressures of being a child star. And no doubt her awful manager worked the poor thing to death. It was a combination of things. But if she'd had a life before fame, a real childhood and had been allowed to develop as a performer before being thrust into the limelight maybe things would have turned out different.
cynthiacher 1 year ago 3
Who taught her all those silly hand and dance movements? And those exaggerated facial expressions? She didn't need to do that crap; her talent spoke for itself. And those dorky little girl dresses she had to wear, the knee socks and hair ribbons, and that big hair, ugh! But I guess she did whatever she was told to do. Someone says in this documentary that she "wasn't depressed." She was obviously deeply depressed and unhappy. She hid it so well; that's typical of anorexics
cynthiacher 1 year ago
@cynthiacher The dresses Lena wear where fashionable in the 70s but in the 80s they where not that agent of Lena's was part to blame for Lena life and i am only guessing this agent also told her what to wear and how to express herself when singing tho i agree with you this was not necessary as Lena's voice was one in a million and she did not need to do that,,
RIP LENA XXX
garnyan 1 year ago
My name is anna, and I have anorexia, I'm seeing my dietician today. i really want to get better, but I have no idea where to begin. I can't see it happening but i know i can do it, i hate whats it come to in my life, a world controlled by food, but I'm stuck. good luck to anyone trying to wake up from this nightmare x
annapoetry 1 year ago
all the girls in her family are pretty
LollieSmith 1 year ago
discovery781 belongs in a psychiatric hospital; he's looney.
usaerin 2 years ago
Victor your daughter was very talented little girl who blosomed into a beautiful young lady you must have been very proud of her she will always be rememberd what a fantastic voice she had R.I.P Lena!!!
jinkyjoan 2 years ago 7
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Dorothy, if you are dead, I hope the ending was slow and resplendent of images if sins committed against an innocent child. See(C) You(U) Next(N) Tuesday (T)
laceup1967 2 years ago
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Lena was found on the island of Bute. Where was Dorothy Solomon found, I wonder, under a rock?
TomthatiscalledTom 2 years ago
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Her mum and dad have a lot to answer for !!!
joanvoggs 2 years ago
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newagemisfit 2 years ago
Eh I don't think so that BITCH of a manager has a lot to answer for!!!!
shoegalsho2 2 years ago
It was not Lena's mum and dads fault i blame that horrible woman manager who drove her to unhappiness and never let her live a normal childhood. Lena's parents where never with her because she was more or less taken from them.
She is in peace no forever
garnyan 2 years ago
victor is my uncle. he is very sensitive about what happend . and back then there was no security over your children, you left them to explore the world. and thats what my uncle did and even to this day he doesnt regret his desisions of sending her to go live with her agent because lena forfilled her dreams of becoming a hudge star. but please , please be considerate and dont leave nasty comments. thank you so very much xx
babeechazz 2 years ago 4
She was very young...there was still time to get a career,when she was 18 or 17 when she could have better coped with been away from family,you know.
Janvierireland 2 years ago
hi i was just wondering if victor really was your uncle as in some way im related to lena on my dads side my dads family name is clarke does it ring a bell i think she was my dads second cousin all the best
vina299 2 years ago
Is Victor really your uncle?
StarsInMyHands 2 years ago
we arent blood related but i have known him all my life and my grandad who is 68 years old has known victor since he was 7 when my grandad moved to rothsay so... ya know , he kinda is in way :L why ya ask ?<3
babeechazz 2 years ago
Did wot he could for her.......is all. x
stellybabe 2 years ago
You are so very missed Lena !
LenaZavaroniFAN 2 years ago 16
never heard of her but she was adorableee =]
magx3bby 2 years ago 2
I don't care how talented my child was, I could never just send her off to live with her agent. And that agent! She's so...Cruella de Vil.
spershall 2 years ago 2
im so sorry...
withpowertobreak69 2 years ago
So tragic that dorothy got her hand's on lena if only she had met a better agent she might of been taken care of properly and still be with us today, you are missed lena by many many people may you rest in peace............
wenbarra 3 years ago
"better agent," ha, is there really such a thing?...I'm deeply skeptical of anyone who makes money off of child labor--that's what it is, no matter how benign the masque--but I understand your sentiment--given the situation, a nurturing & ethical person would have been better than the scum that banked off that poor girl.--there are very few child entertainers that aren't scarred from the experience (& spectators are in some way complicate).
pathoplastic 2 years ago 2
No ha about it there are and was some good agent's out there, we all know that they make money being an agent is there job..............
wenbarra 2 years ago
"No my dear - I stuck to dogs and horses - never in my plan" ... says it all!!!!
So tragic!!!
BeautifulPast 3 years ago 2
A child should not be working
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Agree - and if it's what they want then they need support big time if that's the way they are going to ensure they don't go the way of Lena.
Shesnoin 3 years ago
True, people can get stressed also when over 18 so psychological support is always needed by anyone.
I am pretty sure that any person who is or has been famous as a singer has been singing locally since being a child,it is just that they are not brought to massive public attention as a child.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
i DON,T think her talent would have been wasted on Rothesay,people should just have waited until she was at least 18.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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916620 3 years ago
Thats seem to be my view too,I note that her manager said in a harsh tone that she now sticks to dogs and horses and that children were just not in her plan.Also that she didin,t want to take on a 9 year old in the first place which seems to mean that she thinks all kids are just bold and this is Before she even met Lena.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
So sad, why let your child go into the hands of someone who obviously didn't care.
Shesnoin 3 years ago 3
Notice how her family still smile when they talk about her! She must have been a genuinely lovely person for them to think so fondly of her. That agent should never have been allowed to care for her. I can't have children but I love them to bits. That witch has obviously no maternal instinct and has ruined a beautiful persons life just to get her hands on money.
shoegalsho 3 years ago 4
I completely agree with you. Half way through this, I had completely forgotten about the tragedy that was about to unfold because I got so caught up in their excitement. They must have all loved her so much.
alexavendetta 3 years ago 4
Totally agree alexvendetta!
shoegalsho 3 years ago
Why did they hand her over to this woman I will never understand - and even more so how she even admits that she didn't want to look after a child - and has no remorse - it would be good to have a proper documentary done that really examines and portrays what really happened to destroy this lovely child, woman.
Tilly0910 3 years ago 4
The manager said that she did not want to take on a child but then she(dorothy) did it anyway,so that makes me think that dorothy,s motivation was the money she made from managing Lena.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Of course, if she was an agent..
Zzick90 2 years ago
Thanks for uploading this. Poor Lena. Her agent looks like a hard-nosed cow, typical agent, thinking of the money.
RIP Lena
zaygezunt 3 years ago 3
I looked up Hughie Green I was remembering all the show's when I was young and watching America's Got Talent. Since I live in North America I didn't know she had passed till now. She was a great Scottish Talent and that agent should never have been given so much control of her. My heart goes out to her family and Rothsay is a wonderful place for kids.
purrdy5 3 years ago 2
I grew up in the same town as her (Rothesay) and went to the same school, although she'd left some years before I was there. She would enter local talent contests, and eventually they barred her from doing so because she won all of them hands down. People still talk about her, her cousin sings there and there are still a number of Zavaroni's restaurants dotted around. It must have been terrifying for a 10 yr old to go from what was (and is) a very small holiday island to the big time so quickly.
UncleFeedle 3 years ago 2
I think her lifestyle had a lot to do with her anorexia.
I mean,you have to wonder,if she hadn't been famous,maybe she'd still be alive,without anorexia?
W.
wiseoldlady7 3 years ago 4
@wiseoldlady7 They treated her like a human doll. the horrific outfits and adult songs to entertain old ladies. i suppose they kind of lost interest when she went through puberty. Anorexia inhibits puberty and growth
LollieSmith 1 year ago
@LollieSmith
Yes,you are right,they treated her like a freak,no wonder she got messed up in the head. Look at the way she was living....!!!
wiseoldlady7 1 year ago
Anorexia is a psychological disorder and really needs to be admitted by the sufferer to themselves before the correct treatment can be applied. There will always be a problem addressing the issue with a sufferer because a dilemma often occurs with the individual finding their freedom being limited. To achieve the ultimate treatment the patient really needs to be in agreement with his/her appointment psychologist/psychiatrist.
MickeyLove01 3 years ago 2
It would be interesting and more than likely very sad to find out how instrumental her agent was in sending all the wrong messages to a little girl that wanted to please everyone. She more thank likely figured out that she had no control of her career, money, love life etc.. but the one thing she could control was her weight and it just snowballed from there. When "mental illness" is suggested you have to figure malnutrition also played a part in that as well. Just so tragic.
cosmicbrian 3 years ago 7
Wow! I had remembered a powerful singing cute little redheaded girl who was on the Carol Burnette show and and wondered what happened to her. I couldn't remember her name. Today I was looking up Roses and Rainbows sung by Julie Budd and saw this other woman singing it and low and behold she was that same little readheaded girl from way back. What an absolute shame to find out she is dead. Her "agent" was a very prolific role model at a vulnerable age for this girl. cont...
cosmicbrian 3 years ago
Poor girl she just needed someone in her life to make a little difference :(
tjcarr70 3 years ago 3
Sometimes people are out of the reach of family, or friends, or outstanding therapists. Heroic acts by family and friends cannot save them. And that must hurt.
G1rlF516nd 3 years ago
There should be some sort of law against child 'stars' They are give workloads that would burn out most adults at a time when their bodies and brains are developing...when the fame dries up in their teens, they crash. There are countless examples of former child actors/singers coming unstuck and dying in young adulthood
TomthatiscalledTom 3 years ago 5
@TomthatiscalledTom @sophiekitten you're right.how could a parent send their 10 year old child away?. she never sttod a chance.hopefully she is at peace now.
sophiekitten1 1 year ago
09.43....she sticks to dogs and horses and ...a 10 yr old Lena Zav. Just another user....and they all want to create the idea it was anorexia : NO! NO! : it was the adults and their exploitation of her ; they used her for dreams and money."Lucille Ball" says dad??; and thebitch London agent. TRAGIC!!
haldenver 4 years ago
It seems YOU are the one doing the exploiting. Get a life, instead of analyzing a tragic situation you know NOTHING about.
mikeylorene 4 years ago
No, that is not true.
Can we at leaqst agree that her child stardom is not UNCONNECTED to anorexia?
Best Rgds HD
haldenver 4 years ago 3
Hal, we are all upset over Lena's tragic death and we all express it in different ways. Sometimes it is easy to blame the parents and others... but Anorexia is a tragic disorder striking many people, not just show biz personalities. I understand how enraged you must feel over her senseless death. Me too, especially since having a personal connection with Lena since the very beginning. To blame the family only pours more grief on them.
mikeylorene 4 years ago 3
What do YOU know about it, mikeylorene? Maybe you're the one who should get a life. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it doesn't correspond with yours.
dinastein44 4 years ago
For your information her agent had a hysterectomy due to cervical cancer at the age of 28 and was unable to have children of her own... she just didn't want to discuss what wasn't relevant to Lena's story. You shouldn't judge those you don't know.
imageofmuse 4 years ago
i agree,
apologies
HD
haldenver 4 years ago
i agree with you 100% that fecking angent needs to be humanely put down just like a sick horse or dog,
braveharty 4 years ago
i agree with you 100% that fecking angent needs to be humanely put down just like a sick horse or dog,
braveharty 4 years ago 2
ya!
i hate her
jades123emma 3 years ago
So how come you are watching her on youtube then? Because you are jealous of her talent.You sound a nasty bitter person.
keyholekate 3 years ago
no!
i love lena!
i was talking about her agent
jades123emma 3 years ago 4
Its strange that he didn,t know where she was going(to the USA to see Frank Sinatra and Lucille Ball).
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Don't forget that it was a world without emails, skype, messenger, mobiles..
Zzick90 2 years ago
Of course,but nothing can replace a young childs interaction with her own family daily.
Janvierireland 2 years ago
With what money to call home everyday? And with what phone? Also, she was probably very busy... But yeah, I wasn't even born that time, I'm just assuming.
Where you actually there or are you just very interested about Lena Zavaroni?
Zzick90 2 years ago
I am just very interested in Lena Zavaroni since I found out about her from this documentary and a few other sources.What I meant by"nothing can replace a young childs interaction with her own family daily" was not telephone calls but actually being with her family and there was no necessity for fame until or unless she decided to a public career at the age of 18.I am quite surprised that any parent would agree to let their child go live with strangers.
Janvierireland 2 years ago 2
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LAZZA IS a GOD!
Petrovavich 2 years ago
Also as I think I have said before there are musical theatre for children so that they could develop their talent,perhaps the nearest to the Zavaronis is in the city of Glasgow.
Janvierireland 2 years ago
The key phrase is " I went for it..."..Where is the money..;; and his wife/mother commits suicide???
haldenver 4 years ago
Destroyed by her parents(?)....DAD. Look at the glasses; open-necked shirt; suicidal wife ; isle life ; guitar background. Have questions even been asked? Who ran this exploitation show? BIG ISSUE : FINANCIAL AUDIT? Lets get a statement. Is there a convention for these folks : Jackson Dad Et Al
haldenver 4 years ago
does anyone have the full clip of her singing Swinging on a Star as she was in the beginning of this segment?
megsed 4 years ago 2
What a supertalent! Feel sorry for her dad and sister !
monahgrethe 4 years ago
Everyone needs a happy childhood, Also supertalented children.
1jouko2 4 years ago 2
Great video(so sad!)
SexyEyez89 4 years ago
I met her when i was a kid, she was such a sweet girl,such a tragedy when good people die young.
METAL4EVERMAN 4 years ago
God love her deeply,hindsight is....etc,there were probably hundreds of equally good singers round and about,it is probably their grat fortune for the most part that they were never discovered.
Dads do their best,the poor child was only 10,and agents,well agents are what they are.
eblanaken 4 years ago 2
I can't believe that she travelled alone, without parents! That must've been very difficult for a kid her age!
zarnitev 4 years ago 3
I can remember Lena Zavaroni winning Opportunity Knocks back in 1974. A really talented wee girl. Having lived abroad for over 25 years it has not been easy to keep up with events in my native Scotland and I was absolutely devastated to learn what had happended to her after watching this documentary. God bless you Lena.
IanMathewson1 4 years ago 2
The Agent is a cold cold person. Victor really didn't know what to do for the best. He didn't know what the consequences were. And also don't forget that initially Lena wanted to go and do all the work, she also didn't know that it meant going away for a long time, she was too young to understand. Perhaps if a family member had gone too !!! But they were only working classs people and were following advice from Dorothy Solomon.
davlaur 4 years ago
Yes, too bad her sister or cousin or any family member wasn't able to move away with her and keep her company.
skfanincan 4 years ago
Are you all making your comments on personnel experience or from what you have seen or heard in the press? I know Dorothy very well and caan assure you that whilst she may have been an extremely formidable lady she has a heart of gold and is an exceptionally sweet person on the inside. Please don't judge people from what you read or see in the press.
chelsea2312 4 years ago
I know someone who went to alot of trouble to contact Dorothy and travelled to an arranged appointment and Dorothy never turned up. Also she seems to feel she played no part in Lenas problems. I don't agree she took this child away and paraded her like a side show round the world and all over television and your not telling me she didn't do it for the money or the prestige. She could have done more to help by noticing if Lena was unhappy and by helping with family visits etc
davlaur 4 years ago 2
This brings back a lot of memories of watching Opportunity Knocks as a child in the 70s.
But oh good gawd. The agent reminds me of the witch from Sleeping Beauty. I guess Lena bit the wrong side of the apple.
laceup1967 4 years ago 3
Sounds very sad but she was my hero as I wanted to be like her. She was 5 years older than me so I suppose I looked up to her.I remember her and Bonnie Langford being on the front of the TV Times as they had a show together in the 70s.
susiec48 4 years ago
Sad story
luckycharms19 4 years ago
who's bianca ryan?
lovesit9 4 years ago