This series of videos are are poor attempt at misleading the audience on what the true issues are.
For instance, in this video the whole debate is constantly pushed towards the artificial question of whether it is "normal" or not to have a divided city (indeed, as if normality was an intrinsic characteristic of Israeli society!). It then manipulatively reaches the conclusion that Jerusalem should be undivided, which translated into reality just means stealing more Palestinian land.
1. Again, what do you mean by "normal"? Who decides what is normal? I prefer to focus on what is just.
2, 3, 4, 5: None of the land was Jewish, which means neither Jerusalem was Jewish. There was no Jewish state until 1948. Until 1948 there were villages that belonged to the Palestinian people which little by little were being taken over by radical settlers who were on a mission to create a Jewish state. To do that they ethnically cleansed the region.
@palimpsestransparent The video reviews the inherent instability of major cities that are split (Berlin, Beirut, Nicosia). They do not last and should not be encouraged.
You are incorrect. Jerusalem has been majority jewish since the 1870s - before the Zionist movement; before the Ottomans lost the land; even during the time that the Jordanians annexed the city and expelled all of the jews from the Old City - it has been majority Jewish for 140 years
@firstonethrough Stating that divided cities do not last and therefore should not be encouraged is a very weak argument to justify Israel's illegal attempt at taking over this city that has always had an arab population. Why doesn't your cartoon video mention the fact that Israel has stripped 70,000 Palestinian Jerusalemite residents of their ID cards, turning them into non-residents? Why don't you mention how Israel has isolated East Jerusalem from the West Bank? Or mention house demolitions?
@palimpsestransparent Im glad youre reviewing all of the video! as you see, they each compare Israel to other countries on different points. no one video attempts to sum up the entire history or situation. This video is about divided cities and compares them to divided cities around the world. Minor border cities are sometimes divided and larger cities if a river runs thru it - watch the video again. The illegal split of Jlem happened in 1948 - not 1967.
Israel conquered n stole Filisteen. This video is made in a very careful n intelligent way. One thing i agree with is that Jerusalem shouldnt b divided, BUT THE WHOLE AREA GIVEN BACK TO THE PALESTINIANS. ( Whole area here means all of Occupied Filisteen. All that was stolen ).
@rally989 I have heard some people argue the same. I think Israel would agree to do a 180 degree flip of the current situation - whereby all of Jlem would be part of new Palestine, and the Temple Mount would revert back to Jewish control. Do you think the arabs would agree?
@rally989 How can the Palestinians have something stolen that they never possessed???
The answer is --- it was never stolen!! The Balfour Declaration and UN resolution recognized that the Jews had a legitimate right to this land and there were very few residents and basically no other peoples who wanted it. It was desolate and mostly empty. Arabs only began showing up when the Jews began arriving in the 1800's and were developing the land and the economy.
@sandycheryl "there were very few residents and basically no other peoples who wanted it. It was desolate and mostly empty. Arabs only began showing up when the Jews began arriving in the 1800's and were developing the land and the economy." lol a very typical dishonest ignorant Zionist load of crap .
East Jerusalem is Arab... the only part of East Jerusalem that is Jewish is the Jewish quarter of the Old City. And if Jerusalem must be united, why not united in the Palestinian State then? After all, Palestine is older than modern Israel is.
@ConOBri There are arabs throughout Israel. Israel is 25% arab.
Regarding palestine being older than modern Israel, you are of course aware that there has never been an independent country of palestine
Lastly, Jlem could be united under a future Palestine or be international city. If the parties want to negotiate a 180 degree flip - where all Jlem is Pali, and the Temple Mount is under jewish authority and no muslims are allowed to pray there, I think would get a lot of support in Israel
@firstonethrough There hadn't been also any independent country called "South Africa"... South Africa acquired the "independent country" status under the rule of the Apartheidist English and the Boers!... So, according to you, South Africa (like Israel) should have continued its Apartheid policy, right? Long live the discrimination! Shame on you.
@ConOBri I think you're missing my point - part of the problem if text communication.
I am not in favor of discrimination. That is why I am saying there is no reason that arabs should not be able to stay in Israel which you seem to suggest every time you mention a predominantly arab city should be new Pali. Jews should also be allowed to live in future Pali. Each group wants self determination, but there will also be some that will be a minority of the other state. That is not discrimination
@ConOBri and regarding the jews only being in the jewish quarter - is completely incorrect. That is where most live in the Old City. Jews live throughout East Jlem and make up half of the E Jlem population. Some communities such as the Yemenite community in Silwan and Shimon Hatzadik near Shiek Jarrah go back to the 1880s. Hebrew University on Mount Scopus goes back 100 years.
Then there are of course the dozens of new communities that have been built since reunification in 1967.
@firstonethrough Well, Mount Scopus was always since 1947 considered as Israeli, anyway. The dozens of new communities that were built since the "reunification" in 1967 are just like the settlements that have been built in the West Bank... Nazareth is an Arab majority city... OK, then, is Israel able to give Nazareth to a Palestinian state? Jaffa, next to Tel Aviv was always an Arab city... Is Israel able to give up Jaffa to Palestine?
@ConOBri What does being mostly arab have to do with anything? Israel is 25% arab. It has no intention of giving away all cities that are arab.
If the Palis sit down and discuss which cities they are willing to swap, they would find out what the give-and-take will be. In the current environment, nothing will happen.
Re Mt Scopus, it was cut off from the rest of Jlem when arabs killed the residents in Shimon Hatzadikand seized their homes, which left Hebrew U. as an an outpost.
@firstonethrough Yes, Mt Scopus was cut off from the rest of Jerusalem like Campione d'Italia belongs to Italy and it's inside Switzerland, so what? And the neighbourhood of Shimon Hatzadik wasn't, unlike Mt. Scopus itself, an exclave of Israel, according to the United Nations. But I understand that you don't like a lot the United Nations!... Just imagine... it includes cruel countries like Spain and France which have quite recently recognized Palestine in the UNESCO, against Mrs. Ashton orders!
@ConOBri Palestine is older???? When it was established? Who was the king / president \ or their first prime minister? What were its borders? Who knew the country (allegedly)? I know you can not answer those questions, that "palestine" never existed, and it does not exist now, all your attempt to avoid answering questions directly make you more stupid from what you are now.
@ConOBri Palestine never existed. the only independent country ever in that area was ancient Israel. The Ottoman empire was not Palestine. As Newt Gingrich finally had the courage to point out, Palestine is an invention, a fiction that people have bought into, but has no substantive reality. If the refugees had all been settled post-1948, the 'palestinian people' would be Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc. Before Jews started settling the land, 'palestinian arabs' were just 'arabs'.
@sandycheryl The country as such didn't exist but the people existed. I guess Croatia had never existed either before its independence from Yugoslavia. That wouldn't be a reason for the Turks, the Austrians, or all of the other people that governed that territory to expell the Croatians from Croatia, so that it could be Ottoman or Austrian again. It's not about historical borders, it's about people! If you want to go to the issue of historical borders, then consider giving Israel back to Egypt.
@nmgscp Thank you for supplying your list. You further prove my point. Many of this list are either minor cities; cities that are on either side of a river, or are sister cities - cities that grew up near each other and have become trading partners- but were never a single city that was ripped apart.
Jerusalem should remain a single city - whether as Israel, international, Palestinian, French, whomever. It is an integrated city with no natural boundaries
@firstonethrough Chui and Chuy are actually the same city. Every Uruguayan and every Brazilian needs a passport to access to this city. Most people in Haparanda, Sweden (Haaparanta in Finnish) speak Finnish and most people in Narva (Estonia) are ethnic Russians. (Chui and Chuy are separated by... an avenue with no border separating one side from the other, Haparanda and Tornio are just separated by a river, the same as Narva and Ivangorod. There isn't any military dispute between these countries
@firstonethrough Yes, my favourite option is that Jerusalem shall remain a single city, neither Jewish nor Arab, International is my favourite option. But to be fair, I hope you realize that that means that West Jerusalem shall also become part of the International unified city... neither Jewish, nor Palestinian!... Are you able to accept that? Fine!
@nmgscp The original proposal was for Jlem to be international. However, 1) the city has been unified since 1967 and is functioning under Israel control; 2) Israel has ceded all its other holy sites including Bethlehem, Hebron and Joseph's Tomb in Nablus to the Palis - it should control the Old city.
Pali could make Bethlehem its capital which is adjacent to Jlem - similar to the examples you cited.
@nmgscp I think many people would be happy to do a 180 degree flip on Jlem - give all of Jlem to the Palestinians. In turn, the jews assume control of the Temple Mount and bar any muslims from praying there.
If that's what the parties negotiating decide, that's fine with me.
@nmgscp No - you should just not care. Why do you care and comment about things that have no impact on you?
I think the parties should sit down and work it out. I'm convinced about Abbas' logic - which is actually somewhat sound. He loses if: 1) the world does not put the pressure on Israel he hoped for; 2) Israel continues to build in WB, making it less likely to leave the built up areas.
@nmgscp If 2-3 years go by and that happens, he asks for a single state. Israel declines, annexes those parts it wants and hands administration of the WB to a third party. That would mean that the WB would have gone from Ottoman to British to Israel to UN/Quartet/NATO administration and still no true independence for Pali. I think that would stink.
Anyway, your comment on Jlem disappearing is a punt. It's unfortunately been the way for the parties involved too, which leads nowhere
He's terrible - mean, rude to guests and not funny. I don't know how he stays on.
While one can discuss the middle east and try to come to a workable solution without religion, it cannot be ignored. At some point, someone (even an atheist) has to acknowledge that the parties DO care about religion. A balance of providing access and recognizing "the Other's" desires should provide long-term co-existence. Otherwise, the solution would be for only one party to dominate completely for stability
Quite bad "information"! 57% of East Jerusalem residents are Palestinians, and the far majority of the 43% of Jews there are actually settlers, since only a few hundreds of Jews were living in East Jerusalem in 1967! AND East Jerusalem has 60% of all of the Jerusalem's residents! The total Jewish population in the Old City of Jerusalem is around 4000, which means only 13%, being the rest Palestinians. Of course Jews are an overwhelming majority in West Jerusalem, but does anyone dispute that?
@nmgscp Even more specifically, today's eastern Jlem is much larger than east Jlem in 1967. Much of today's east Jlem (mostly jewish) are brand new neighborhoods which were empty hilltops around Jlem 45 years ago
The original plan for the area in 1947 was a "holy basin" which extends to Bethlehem, was to be an international city. The definition and borders have morphed over time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "settlers". I think by your definition would consider a jew in the old city.
@firstonethrough I think that a compromise over Jerusalem doesn't necessarily mean that all East Jerusalem becomes Palestinian. A compromise could be something like this: the Old city could have shared or independent sovereignty (just like the Vatican inside Rome), and in the rest of East Jerusalem, either the areas with arab majority should be transferred to Palestine or Palestinians there should have Israeli citizenship. Not far from the proposals of Ehud Barak in 2000, actually.
@nmgscp I think it would be appropriate for all people in the region to have the option of becoming citizens of either Israel or Palestine once the borders are decided. Should an individual opt not to be a citizen, what would their option be - a permanent resident? This would cover both arabs (or anyone) in Israel and jews in the west bank.
@firstonethrough What is "the region" for you? Being it all the region of Israel+Palestinian territories, I agree, but that would also imply the end of the Israeli "Jewish" state, since a very large portion of people living under Israeli-occupied zones are not Jews...
@firstonethrough If by "the region" you consider Palestinian territories (namely West Bank), then I also agree, given that it is agreed between both parts that Israelis living in Palestine are expatriates, and therefore considered as Israeli-nationals but subject to residential rules of Palestine (as immigrants are everywhere)... If by "the region" you consider only Jerusalem, I think that in terms of history, not only Muslims but Christians too (a lot) have a lot of legitimate claims over it.
@firstonethrough Anyway, I myself think that all that religious discussions are a big bulshit... One of my favourite comedians is actually Bill Maher... surprised?
Let me give some examples of divided cities, in practice, that have more than 50.000 people: San Diego / Tijuana; Copenhagen / Malmö (disputable by my own experience, but I also know that a lot of ppl living in Malmö work in Kbh), Detroit / Windsor, Brazzaville / Kinshasa, Lille metropolitan area, Basel metropolitan area (I've actually been in Basel, I'm quite aware of that), Buffallo / Niagara Falls....
Listen, I am dead serious that I would like to have the text to this video to use. I will refer people to see this but I would also like to integrate some of the points you've made. This message should be placed in the context of more clear descriptions of their history and plans, why the question itself is outrageous. Start with watching my uploads "50 Years War, Israel and the Arabs" & I will teach anyone why Palestine has no real chance for a peaceful state without complete wholesale change.
The question itself is outrageous & a completely insane attempt that was proved useless in 2000. Get over the useless, dangerous question & focus on the real facts, not old fantasies. If Israel had been able to END THE CONFLICT in 2000 w THAT offer, that WAS their choice but it was proved that even to talk to these criminals simply gets their heads fatter on their way to complete the plans for destruction of Israel through posing as a "state" while having no sovereignty due to their own choices.
I don't have a problem with this video, but I personally prefer to focus on salient points. It shouldn't be divided because of the absolute critical fact that the question itself implies falsely that the Palestinians have an equal right of sovereignty w Israel when they have virtually no sovereign rights at all! The question itself is absurd & only even taken seriously due to he critical overzealous enthusiasm of Jimmy Carter & his delusions of demigod status in politics. He should be in prison.
confuse the issue til you forget,the Palestines were living under a Turkish mandate b4 the Allies defeated the Ottoman empire and the mandate was given to the Jews by the Brits .So you see there was never a Palestinian state. When you live under a mandate of a foreign nation its not your land,basically you are leasing the land from the Turkish govt.,the Palestinians knew this when they settled there from Cyprus the Aegian and payed their taxes.
@stars1836 but those are arabic jews . today, the arabic jews are the minorities and are oppressed just like other arabs , regardless if they are muslims or christians in israel. the "new" jews is claiming the land as their's. its like a muslim chinese from china suddenly comes to mecca and claim the land as their's, just because they are muslim. get you facts right
@ReconciledSinner In general, women's brains are better in certain areas and all of us need to correct our husbands.=) In average, women can be smarter than men, but supersmart are usually males only.
Another model of boundary 'divided' city: The Uruguayan city of Rivera and Brasilian Santana do livramento. In fact they are not divided. The boundary is an avenue (Avenida Internacional). People can pass from one to the other side without check. Customs are located at the cities outlets.
I would not call this video "I hate Israel" but it will probably draw the haters to comment here (if they listen to the explanation). Excellent explanation, even if by
rabbits or mice? Jerusalem for Israel, forever Baruch HaShem
Jerusalem belongs to the one true God , but He gives it to His Jewish people to dwell in, anyone whom tries to take it from them will have to deal with Him, although Israel must yet go through the time of jacobs trouble as they still reject Yeshua, the prophet Zechariah tells how it will be in the end when they finally recognise Him. Joseph is a wonderful picture of Yeshua.
For the Jews, the significance of Jerusalem is quite clear. The Jewish connection to Jerusalem is an ancient and powerful one. Judaism made Jerusalem a holy city over three thousand years ago and through all that time Jews remained steadfast to it. Jews pray in its direction, mention its name constantly in prayers, close the Passover service with the wistful statement “Next year in Jerusalem,” and recall the city in the blessing at the end of each meal.
So long the Jews believe Hashem as their God, they have right to exist b/cos they are right to be chosen, otherwise, No, b/cos chosen people can not be selected by man, but to live like that way in order to be justified. So I support the peaceful religious Jews side right to exist.
And synagogues were burned, and holy sites were destroyed. Western Wall became garbage dump. Is that right? Compare that to Jerusalem under Israeli rule. Each time i vist Jerusalem, I see thousands of Jews at the Kotel, thousands of Christains at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and thousands of Muslims at the Dome of the Rock/al-aqsa mosque. NOW that is fair, and how it should be, and no one should tell Israel to change this!
U.N. condemns Israel that this is Apartheid, because they are segregating the Jews from the Muslims.
That's probably what would happen. And let's not forget, if Jerusalem comes under Palestinian control, non-Muslims would be barred from entering and worshiping in Jerusalem. This is what happened under Jordanian rule from 1949-1967. Even Christians had restrictions.
Am Israel Chi ! There is no change of anti-Semitic minds no matter what facts and documents one would present to them. antisemitism is genetic disorder.
I'd disagree. Read Son of Hamas, written by the son of a founder of Hamas. He changed from supporting terrorism and wanting Israel to be destroyed, to supporting Israel and converted to Christianity. And his book explains why he changed. HINT: It has to do with actually seeing Israel's treatment of Palestinians with his own eyes, as opposed to the lies he was fed.
I'd disagree. I'm friends with many Muslims, even some that support Israel, and they'd find that very disgracing. The only Muslims that are indoctrinated to hate and dance with explosives are the terrorists and Gazans.
@israelawareness1 ...and Iranians muslims, and Al-Quida, and Taliban, and muslim's brotherhood muslims, and Hisbala's muslims, and Iraqis muslims, and american muslims which were celebrated 911, and Syrian thugs muslims, and Chechens muslims, and Egyptians muslims, and Turkish muslims, and all of those idiots muslims organized flotillas-shit, and Norwegian muslims, and European muslims, and Ethiopian muslims, and Sudanese muslims etc... But the rest of them are peaceful angels...
That's a very large generalization. I work in America at a hospital and one of the doctors i work with is a Muslim doctor and we are very good friends (and i wear a kippah, so he knows I'm Jewish). I know someone in LEBANON who is anti-Hezbollah, anti-Hamas, anti-terrorism, and supports Israel, and says that "Israel is Israel, people need to accept that." And he's Muslim. So yes, that's a very very large generalization and stereotype. Also, read Son of Hamas, good book.
What's astonishing is that the only people you hear expressing their voice are the ones who want Israel destroyed and want to conquer the world. And that's unfortunate. And then you have people who are anti-terrorism, and believe in honor killings and non equal rights for women. And still, you do have some very good Muslims who just want peace and equality. Don't underestimate this.
Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. There is no such thing historically as the West Bank. It is really Judea. There's no such thing as a historical Palestinian people. The Arabs are USING the so-called palestinians as pawns, for a shield and a weapon . Saudi Arabia is the real enemy.
by the way - do you know who employs the vast majority of the so-called palestinians? Yep, you guessed it, Israelis !
@largraf Meh... that's so ignorant. I stand up for Israel but not the right to steal land, plunder and opress. You say that there are no historical people called Paletineans. That's a lie or based on ignorance. Palestine and the Palestineans are a reality aswell as Israel and the Israelis. Two equally old people and countries. Old Israel was populated by Israelites, new Israel is populated by Israelis. Two different people. All your arguments can be broken down to apply on Israel and Israelis
@Jasminewynja I hate Israel too. They just won't stop defending themselves. What's wrong with them. And they also continue to employ all those Arabs/palestinians. Why do they do that? Then they keep creating all these scientific inventions that help blind people see and lame people to walk. Then they offer these to muslims as well as everybody else. They were the first medical team to go into Haiti after the earthquake. What are they, trying to score brownie points. God, I hate that.
@largraf You and who hates Israel? You're really retarded if you think I hate Israel. If you fail to get my point then ask instead of behaving like a moron.
@Jasminewynja There is not one curse word nor any name calling in my posts. Unlike yours.
The so-called palestinians are not descended from the Philistines. Being Greek myself, I would find that assertion very OFFENSIVE. Us Greeks don't teach our children to become suicide bombers, we don't expect something for nothing. When part of Cypress was taken from us by Muslim Turks, we didn't become suicide bombers to push the Turks into the sea. No, the pales's are not descended from Greeks ! ! !
@largraf "There is not one curse word nor any name calling in my posts. Unlike yours" Pathetic. You implyed that i hate Israel. I said "IF your think i do, THEN you're really retarded. So if you do think i hate Israel I'm only pointing out a fact. If you dont think i do, then dont take it personally because then i dont think youre retarded. Just ignorant when it comes to the Israel/Palestine conflict. I wont bother to comment the racist bullshit about "differences" between Palestines and Greeks
@largraf I call it an honest answer and a challenge for you to discuss this serious issue on a serious level. Say there are no Palestines is exactly what the same kind of peopl on the "other side" say about Israelis. They say; "there are no Israelis" despite the fact that millions of children in both Palestine and Israel has been born as Palestines and Israelis. That's a fact. And again, read what i wrote. IF you...blabla... and if you DONT then...blablabla. Try to catch up a little please
@largraf I have no faith in any kind of god/gods. It doesnt interest me. The question; "is there a god" is impossible to answer which makes the question completely irrelevant and pointless. It will only end up in believing either this or that without any proof. That's why i don't care. Yes i think you're ignorant, that's no curse or "calling names". Im not saying you're ignorant in general though. I said that you're either lying or are ignorant when it come to the Israel/Palestine conflict
@Jasminewynja Now I understand. You are Godless. Now, I will tell you. There are two camps - God's camp & the camp for everybody else including the godless. For someone godless, it doesn't make sense that you care about anything. GOD is LIFE!!. Why should you care about little children being blown to bits when you profess that you are godless. Make sense to me GIRL, DON'T BS ME. The whole world has had enough BS. If you don't hold to absolute principles of God and Life, then keep your trap shut
@largraf Sorry but i can't take anything you worte in your last reply as serious. I mean... it's ludicrous to see someone ask why I should care about children if i dont believe in god/gods as if religious people werent behind most of the conflicts and wars of today. LMAO! Life is proven to be truth. God is just a word used by you religious people. You could aswell believe in Santa, unicorns, elfs, trolls or gods. Try to prove the existanse of any of these imaginations. Do it, I challange you!
@Jasminewynja Oh, I forgot, the Israelis are constantly giving things to these Arabs/palestinians for free, like medical care. And they even allowed them to have their own state - imagine that - ask the Arabs/palestinians themselves and they'll tell you that they are Arabs. All the Arab countries don't want them, but Israel still lets them stay and employs them and even lets them have government positions. God, I hate Israel.
@berenjervin There are borders of Israel defined by UN . There are borders defined for Palestine by UN. Fact is that the Israel expanded a lot compared to the original borders. Another fact is that UN has accpeted some of the expansion of Israel, the borders of 67. That mean that anything outside of the borders of 67 is NOT Israel. It belongs to the Palestines. Want to dispute that?
@berenjervin Yet again you're trying to make this to be something about Jes and Muslims. Let us focus on the issue. The Israelis and Palestineans please. The borders of 67 has nothing to do with any destruction of Israel. It is the borders of Israel. The occupation of Palestinean land is however destroying Israel from inside. The working Israelis pays billions of Shekels for these settlements in taxmoney. The so called settlers are a major reason for the never ending conflict
Look, this issue is about muslims and jews. This conflict occurs because of the islamic teachings that place an obligation on muslims to fight to establish Sharia world wide. its exactly the same teachings that are driving the dozen odd other islamic conflicts in the world.
A failure to recognize this is a non starter. And a failure to recognize that palestinians ELECTED Hamas, which has a mandate in its charter for the destruction of israel is also a non starter.
The question in my mind is "Do you really not understand the nature of the conflict?" or "Are you just trying to throw out propaganda to confuse people over what this conflict is really all about?"
This isnt just my opinion. This is stated over and over by islamic religious and political leaders all over the world.
If you want to stick to reality, great. Otherwise, nothing to talk about.
@berenjervin LOL. You shouldnt talk about sticking to reality with all your prejudiced ignorant nonsense. You have proved youself to be prejudiced and ignorant with your assumption that I'm a Muslim or from ME. How can you even believe that I can take anything you say for serious when you do that? I mean, all you show when you're behaving like that is that you're ignorant and not interested about facts or reality. So I'm laughing right in your face for your last pathetic sentence
@berenjervin "Palestinians never existed until muslims invented them after the formation of israel"
Is'nt that pretty much what the anti-Israeli Islamists use to say about Israelis? They say that Israelis never existed before the Zionists invented them. Can you see how stupid and totally pointless a statement like that is concidering that Israelis has lived as Israelis for around 63 years? Can you see that? If you can, then you must see that is equally stupid to say about Palestineans
I've never heard muslims use that argument, but I wont disagree with it, even though I could disagree with aspects of that claim. i.e. these are largely 2 sides of the same coin, but the motivations are different.
The simple fact is this started with 2 religious populations living in the same geographical area.
One religion (islam) tried to depose of the other, and it backfired. Its abundantly clear that these 2 populations can not live together.
@berenjervin "One religion (islam) tried to depose of the other, and it backfired. Its abundantly clear that these 2 populations can not live together"
And why is that? Because of the extremists on both side of the conflict. It's because of them the other people, the majority, are suffering.
That is the million dollar question. But why are you asking me? I just told you why, and that I based that decision on facts and evidence.
Now its up to you to decide if it is true or not. And I'm suggesting that facts and evidence will lead you to the truth, and that just believing what others say may not - especially if those people are biased - like palestinians would be.
@Jasminewynja Again, dont believe me. Listen to this. watch?v=k1Ai6NobjVo How do you square this with your thinking? You cant. Its direct evidence against your position. Here is some more watch?v=FGTUWYNlXxc and more watch?v=63hTOaRu7h4 and more watch?v=qb4MzLxAV24 And straight from palestinians themselves watch?v=zjuDTO8fgqM And I could go on for hundreds of posts. Stop just believing biased parties and actually learn about this topic.
@berenjervin There is no such thing as a imple fact about this conflict. It begun even before the Ottomans who were before the "British Mandate of Palestine". The problems between Palestine and Israel are much created by Europe, US and of course also the former leaders of ME who has fought for that piece of land. You can't claim it begun with the creation of Israel today. It begun way before that.
But I WILL agree that hostilities between muslims and non muslims in general began before this conflict.
In fact, hostilities started in the early 600s, when mohammad went to Medina, and started preaching war against unbelievers. Muslims have been in conflict with their neighbours ever since, and the islamic umma has been growing ever since.
So do you support a democratic state such as israel who recognizes religious freedoms in its borders?
Or do you support an islamic state that would persecute other religions - exactly like you see in every other islamic state in the world?
Palestinians would be welcome in Israel if they did not have the political agenda to destroy israel and genocide jews. Jews would never be welcome in an islamic state.
@berenjervin Of course I support a democratic Israel withing the Israeli borders. Israel is however everything but democratic when it comes to the occupation and settlements inside Palestine. I also support an independet democratic Palestine, inside of the borders of Palestine. What i never will support is any of the extremists on either side of this conflict since they are the major reason for it to continue. Lieberman and his settlers belong to the exstremists aswell as Hamas
There has never -at ANY point in history- been a palestinian state. So claiming "Israel is occupying Palestine" is pure propaganda. You are assuming some fictitious state, then claiming Israel is occupying it.
What borders of palestine? There has never been a palestinian state at ANY point in history.
Again, this is not my opinion. This is historical fact.
Israel faces an "opponent" who openly promises their genocide, engages in constant terrorism - INCLUDING the use of child suicide bombers, and has invaded them multiple times in history.
The goal of Palestinians is very clear - its genocide.
@berenjervin To me it look like you're mixing things up. You say that Jews lost land and home across the ME. Let me clarify. I'm not talking about ME nor do i talk about either Muslims or Jews. I talk about Israelis and Palestines only. You cant blame the Palestine for with other countries has done. The Paletines are used by Iran, Israel, EU, US, Syria and so on as a brick in a geopolitical "game". Those who pay the biggest price for it is the Palestines and what do they get for it? Nothing.
The simple fact is muslims tried to push the jews out of the area in 1936, and after 12 years of bloody conflict, Israel was formed. Jews all across the ME were forced out of their homes, and were forced to go to Israel. Muslims who believed jews should be pushed out were also pushed out, and left to rot by islamic states.
Why do you hold Israel responsible for what your grandparents caused?
@berenjervin Again... it begin to be boring to have to repeat this. This IS a conflict between Palestine and Israel. What Syria, Egypt etc. did is another debate!
You wrote: "Why do you hold Israel responsible for what your grandparents caused?"
Care to explain that question concidering I'm a Swede with a Swedish heritage back to the Vikings?
Hah! Let me just pull my foot out of my mouth first. (if you understand that).
I sometimes fall into the "trap" that pro palestinian supporters are muslim, and I did that here. This is a polarized topic, and its the split is almost universally pro palestinian muslim vs non muslim.
Let me rephrase that to "Why do palestinians hold Israel responsible for what their grandparents did?"
@berenjervin Yes, this IS a polarized conflict. That's the very reason for why i refuse to let me get traped in either side of the conflict. As i see it there are basicly four groups. Two of them are suffering for what the other two groups do. First two groups are the extremists, hate- fear- and warmongering Israelis and Palestines. They fuel this conflict on an everyday basis. Then we have the other two groups. The Israelis and Palestines that just want to live their lifes in peace
This is a dangerous over simplification. I used to think the very same way, and it took me a long time to figure out its pure fantasy. Let me try to explain. I'm going to use islam as the example, but this same reasoning applies to israel, and every other ideology on the planet.
Note I'm talking about islam here. Because that is what motivates palestinians. If you dont want to accept this, all I can do is bury you in evidence until you do. And I will.
@berenjervin "Why do palestinians hold Israel responsible for what their grandparents did?"
They don't. But some of them do. Exactly the same with some Israelis. The blame even the Palestines in the West Bank for what Hamas is doing in Gaza. They are parts of the extremists who make sloppy sweeping statements about either Israelis or Palestines in general. Based on prejudiced opinions, hate, fear and ignorance. I can't answer exactly why they think as they do. I can only speculate
So, I guess the question then becomes, "Will you excuse the terrorism that chronically comes from this population because there are some that do not commit terrorism"?
This raises the question - "Why do palestinians do nothing to stop the terrorism?" I mean, if most of them disagree with it, they should consider it a criminal act, and charge them accordingly.
Never happens. Actions speak louder than words. Instead muslims universally condemn israel.
>I can't answer exactly why they think as they do. I can only speculate
If you want to understand why they think like they do, you should learn a little about the prophet of islam, and the quran, including the concepts of taqiyya and abrogations.
If you fill childrens heads with radical ideas, they will commit radical acts as adults.
This includes racism, cannibalism, terrorism, and the belief they have the god given obligation to kill.
The root of this problem is the ideology in islam. A child growing up in an islamic state has basically NO CHANCE. They get indoctrinated into this ideology since birth, and most can not shake it off. And the ones that do will tell you exactly why islam is a problem.
People like Walid Shoebat and Wafa Sultan grew up as muslims, and Walid was even a PLO terrorist.
Listen to what they say for their perspective.
Muslims are the worst victims of the islamic ideology.
Also, palestinians - as a people - today demand the destruction of israel, and many even preach the genocide of jews for religious reasons.
Its a bit hypocritical for palestinians to accuse israel of doing exactly what they are trying to do.
The bottom line is the main problem palestinians have is islam. So long as you guys follow this religion, no one in the world wants you. Because islam preaches the overthrow of governments to establish sharia.
@berenjervin No they demand their land back. They demand Palestine back to the Palestines.
Harash words? No, they are ignorant words mixed with prejudiced assumptions without any kind of fact to back them up!
Islamism is a problem, Zionism is a problem, Nazism is a problem, Communism is a problem. Judaism, Christianity and Islam is not a problem, The extremists are! Like Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira for example who advocate killing of non-Jews. Same kind of extremism.
Without any kind of fact? I've given you the words of prominent islamic religious leaders in the ME. These words - and many others - are aired openly on islamic television stations, and yet you deny them as ignorance?
Sorry, but you are flat out wrong. Dont listen to me, listen to muslims themselves. Not the taqiyya based western TV interviews where muslims tell you islam means peace.
>Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira for example who advocate killing of non-Jews
ok - is this guy following jewish religious teachings? Are jews blowing people up around the world to establish jewish states? Or jews immigrating to countries and demanding people live by jewish laws?
Nope.
So while that guys comment IS extremist, trying to compare someone NOT following their religious teachings to people who ARE following their religious teachings is dishonest.
No, they demand the land their ancestors lost in war, AND the land owned by the jews when the conflict started.
You are essentially saying its ok for muslims to take land, but not for jews.
Thats wrong, especially when the conflict was FORCED upon the jews in 1936.
So, you support the palestinians when they started war to acquire land, but condemn the jews when they were forced to defend themselves, and acquired land?
This series of videos are are poor attempt at misleading the audience on what the true issues are.
For instance, in this video the whole debate is constantly pushed towards the artificial question of whether it is "normal" or not to have a divided city (indeed, as if normality was an intrinsic characteristic of Israeli society!). It then manipulatively reaches the conclusion that Jerusalem should be undivided, which translated into reality just means stealing more Palestinian land.
palimpsestransparent 1 month ago
@palimpsestransparent 1. It is not normal to have a divided city
2. the city was not divided by Israel but by the Jordanians that seized it in 1949
3. The 1947 plan was a single international city
4. the reason it is contested today is not the 1967 war, but the 1948 war in which it was split
5. The city was never Palestinian or contemplated to be Pali, but -1948 Ottoman; 1948-1967 Israel+Jordan; 1967-Israel
firstonethrough 1 month ago
@firstonethrough
1. Again, what do you mean by "normal"? Who decides what is normal? I prefer to focus on what is just.
2, 3, 4, 5: None of the land was Jewish, which means neither Jerusalem was Jewish. There was no Jewish state until 1948. Until 1948 there were villages that belonged to the Palestinian people which little by little were being taken over by radical settlers who were on a mission to create a Jewish state. To do that they ethnically cleansed the region.
palimpsestransparent 1 month ago
@palimpsestransparent The video reviews the inherent instability of major cities that are split (Berlin, Beirut, Nicosia). They do not last and should not be encouraged.
You are incorrect. Jerusalem has been majority jewish since the 1870s - before the Zionist movement; before the Ottomans lost the land; even during the time that the Jordanians annexed the city and expelled all of the jews from the Old City - it has been majority Jewish for 140 years
firstonethrough 1 month ago
@firstonethrough Stating that divided cities do not last and therefore should not be encouraged is a very weak argument to justify Israel's illegal attempt at taking over this city that has always had an arab population. Why doesn't your cartoon video mention the fact that Israel has stripped 70,000 Palestinian Jerusalemite residents of their ID cards, turning them into non-residents? Why don't you mention how Israel has isolated East Jerusalem from the West Bank? Or mention house demolitions?
palimpsestransparent 1 month ago
@palimpsestransparent Im glad youre reviewing all of the video! as you see, they each compare Israel to other countries on different points. no one video attempts to sum up the entire history or situation. This video is about divided cities and compares them to divided cities around the world. Minor border cities are sometimes divided and larger cities if a river runs thru it - watch the video again. The illegal split of Jlem happened in 1948 - not 1967.
firstonethrough 1 month ago
Israel conquered n stole Filisteen. This video is made in a very careful n intelligent way. One thing i agree with is that Jerusalem shouldnt b divided, BUT THE WHOLE AREA GIVEN BACK TO THE PALESTINIANS. ( Whole area here means all of Occupied Filisteen. All that was stolen ).
rally989 2 months ago
@rally989 I have heard some people argue the same. I think Israel would agree to do a 180 degree flip of the current situation - whereby all of Jlem would be part of new Palestine, and the Temple Mount would revert back to Jewish control. Do you think the arabs would agree?
firstonethrough 2 months ago
@rally989 How can the Palestinians have something stolen that they never possessed???
The answer is --- it was never stolen!! The Balfour Declaration and UN resolution recognized that the Jews had a legitimate right to this land and there were very few residents and basically no other peoples who wanted it. It was desolate and mostly empty. Arabs only began showing up when the Jews began arriving in the 1800's and were developing the land and the economy.
sandycheryl 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sandycheryl "there were very few residents and basically no other peoples who wanted it. It was desolate and mostly empty. Arabs only began showing up when the Jews began arriving in the 1800's and were developing the land and the economy." lol a very typical dishonest ignorant Zionist load of crap .
MUDSHARK111 2 weeks ago
What can I say except of that it is unfair in the meaning of unjust?
sacsayhuaman1 3 months ago
Jerusalem is not even mentionned once in the Quran. Muslims just want it to piss off jews and christians.
KafirsWithHarbitude 3 months ago
East Jerusalem is Arab... the only part of East Jerusalem that is Jewish is the Jewish quarter of the Old City. And if Jerusalem must be united, why not united in the Palestinian State then? After all, Palestine is older than modern Israel is.
ConOBri 4 months ago 20
@ConOBri There are arabs throughout Israel. Israel is 25% arab.
Regarding palestine being older than modern Israel, you are of course aware that there has never been an independent country of palestine
Lastly, Jlem could be united under a future Palestine or be international city. If the parties want to negotiate a 180 degree flip - where all Jlem is Pali, and the Temple Mount is under jewish authority and no muslims are allowed to pray there, I think would get a lot of support in Israel
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough There hadn't been also any independent country called "South Africa"... South Africa acquired the "independent country" status under the rule of the Apartheidist English and the Boers!... So, according to you, South Africa (like Israel) should have continued its Apartheid policy, right? Long live the discrimination! Shame on you.
ConOBri 3 months ago 15
@ConOBri I think you're missing my point - part of the problem if text communication.
I am not in favor of discrimination. That is why I am saying there is no reason that arabs should not be able to stay in Israel which you seem to suggest every time you mention a predominantly arab city should be new Pali. Jews should also be allowed to live in future Pali. Each group wants self determination, but there will also be some that will be a minority of the other state. That is not discrimination
firstonethrough 3 months ago
@ConOBri and regarding the jews only being in the jewish quarter - is completely incorrect. That is where most live in the Old City. Jews live throughout East Jlem and make up half of the E Jlem population. Some communities such as the Yemenite community in Silwan and Shimon Hatzadik near Shiek Jarrah go back to the 1880s. Hebrew University on Mount Scopus goes back 100 years.
Then there are of course the dozens of new communities that have been built since reunification in 1967.
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough Well, Mount Scopus was always since 1947 considered as Israeli, anyway. The dozens of new communities that were built since the "reunification" in 1967 are just like the settlements that have been built in the West Bank... Nazareth is an Arab majority city... OK, then, is Israel able to give Nazareth to a Palestinian state? Jaffa, next to Tel Aviv was always an Arab city... Is Israel able to give up Jaffa to Palestine?
ConOBri 4 months ago
@ConOBri What does being mostly arab have to do with anything? Israel is 25% arab. It has no intention of giving away all cities that are arab.
If the Palis sit down and discuss which cities they are willing to swap, they would find out what the give-and-take will be. In the current environment, nothing will happen.
Re Mt Scopus, it was cut off from the rest of Jlem when arabs killed the residents in Shimon Hatzadikand seized their homes, which left Hebrew U. as an an outpost.
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough Yes, Mt Scopus was cut off from the rest of Jerusalem like Campione d'Italia belongs to Italy and it's inside Switzerland, so what? And the neighbourhood of Shimon Hatzadik wasn't, unlike Mt. Scopus itself, an exclave of Israel, according to the United Nations. But I understand that you don't like a lot the United Nations!... Just imagine... it includes cruel countries like Spain and France which have quite recently recognized Palestine in the UNESCO, against Mrs. Ashton orders!
ConOBri 3 months ago
@ConOBri Palestine is older???? When it was established? Who was the king / president \ or their first prime minister? What were its borders? Who knew the country (allegedly)? I know you can not answer those questions, that "palestine" never existed, and it does not exist now, all your attempt to avoid answering questions directly make you more stupid from what you are now.
asaf921 2 months ago
@ConOBri Palestine never existed. the only independent country ever in that area was ancient Israel. The Ottoman empire was not Palestine. As Newt Gingrich finally had the courage to point out, Palestine is an invention, a fiction that people have bought into, but has no substantive reality. If the refugees had all been settled post-1948, the 'palestinian people' would be Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc. Before Jews started settling the land, 'palestinian arabs' were just 'arabs'.
sandycheryl 1 month ago
@sandycheryl The country as such didn't exist but the people existed. I guess Croatia had never existed either before its independence from Yugoslavia. That wouldn't be a reason for the Turks, the Austrians, or all of the other people that governed that territory to expell the Croatians from Croatia, so that it could be Ottoman or Austrian again. It's not about historical borders, it's about people! If you want to go to the issue of historical borders, then consider giving Israel back to Egypt.
ConOBri 6 days ago
More divided cities: El Paso (USA) - Ciudad Juarez (Mexico), Frankfurt am Oder (Germany) - Slubice (Poland), Gorizia (Italy) - Nova Gorica (Slovenia), Komarom (Hungary) - Komarno (Slovakia), Moyale (Kenya - Ethiopia), Narva (Estonia) - Ivangorod (Russia), Haparanda (Sweden) - Tornio (Finland), Taba (Egypt) - Eilat (Israel) - Aqaba (Jordan), Tsandriphsh (Georgia) - Vesyoloye (Russia), Brest (Belarus) - Terespol (Poland), San Diego (USA) - Tijuana (Mexico), Chui (Brazil) - Chuy (Uruguay), etc.
nmgscp 4 months ago
@nmgscp Thank you for supplying your list. You further prove my point. Many of this list are either minor cities; cities that are on either side of a river, or are sister cities - cities that grew up near each other and have become trading partners- but were never a single city that was ripped apart.
Jerusalem should remain a single city - whether as Israel, international, Palestinian, French, whomever. It is an integrated city with no natural boundaries
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough Chui and Chuy are actually the same city. Every Uruguayan and every Brazilian needs a passport to access to this city. Most people in Haparanda, Sweden (Haaparanta in Finnish) speak Finnish and most people in Narva (Estonia) are ethnic Russians. (Chui and Chuy are separated by... an avenue with no border separating one side from the other, Haparanda and Tornio are just separated by a river, the same as Narva and Ivangorod. There isn't any military dispute between these countries
nmgscp 4 months ago
@firstonethrough Yes, my favourite option is that Jerusalem shall remain a single city, neither Jewish nor Arab, International is my favourite option. But to be fair, I hope you realize that that means that West Jerusalem shall also become part of the International unified city... neither Jewish, nor Palestinian!... Are you able to accept that? Fine!
nmgscp 4 months ago
@nmgscp The original proposal was for Jlem to be international. However, 1) the city has been unified since 1967 and is functioning under Israel control; 2) Israel has ceded all its other holy sites including Bethlehem, Hebron and Joseph's Tomb in Nablus to the Palis - it should control the Old city.
Pali could make Bethlehem its capital which is adjacent to Jlem - similar to the examples you cited.
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough OK, cede all the West Bank to Palestinians, then we discuss Jerusalem, OK?
nmgscp 4 months ago 3
@nmgscp I think many people would be happy to do a 180 degree flip on Jlem - give all of Jlem to the Palestinians. In turn, the jews assume control of the Temple Mount and bar any muslims from praying there.
If that's what the parties negotiating decide, that's fine with me.
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough As an agnostic, I honestly think that Jerusalem should disappear from the face of the Earth
nmgscp 4 months ago
@nmgscp No - you should just not care. Why do you care and comment about things that have no impact on you?
I think the parties should sit down and work it out. I'm convinced about Abbas' logic - which is actually somewhat sound. He loses if: 1) the world does not put the pressure on Israel he hoped for; 2) Israel continues to build in WB, making it less likely to leave the built up areas.
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@nmgscp If 2-3 years go by and that happens, he asks for a single state. Israel declines, annexes those parts it wants and hands administration of the WB to a third party. That would mean that the WB would have gone from Ottoman to British to Israel to UN/Quartet/NATO administration and still no true independence for Pali. I think that would stink.
Anyway, your comment on Jlem disappearing is a punt. It's unfortunately been the way for the parties involved too, which leads nowhere
firstonethrough 4 months ago
He's terrible - mean, rude to guests and not funny. I don't know how he stays on.
While one can discuss the middle east and try to come to a workable solution without religion, it cannot be ignored. At some point, someone (even an atheist) has to acknowledge that the parties DO care about religion. A balance of providing access and recognizing "the Other's" desires should provide long-term co-existence. Otherwise, the solution would be for only one party to dominate completely for stability
firstonethrough 4 months ago
Quite bad "information"! 57% of East Jerusalem residents are Palestinians, and the far majority of the 43% of Jews there are actually settlers, since only a few hundreds of Jews were living in East Jerusalem in 1967! AND East Jerusalem has 60% of all of the Jerusalem's residents! The total Jewish population in the Old City of Jerusalem is around 4000, which means only 13%, being the rest Palestinians. Of course Jews are an overwhelming majority in West Jerusalem, but does anyone dispute that?
nmgscp 5 months ago
@nmgscp Even more specifically, today's eastern Jlem is much larger than east Jlem in 1967. Much of today's east Jlem (mostly jewish) are brand new neighborhoods which were empty hilltops around Jlem 45 years ago
The original plan for the area in 1947 was a "holy basin" which extends to Bethlehem, was to be an international city. The definition and borders have morphed over time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "settlers". I think by your definition would consider a jew in the old city.
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough I think that a compromise over Jerusalem doesn't necessarily mean that all East Jerusalem becomes Palestinian. A compromise could be something like this: the Old city could have shared or independent sovereignty (just like the Vatican inside Rome), and in the rest of East Jerusalem, either the areas with arab majority should be transferred to Palestine or Palestinians there should have Israeli citizenship. Not far from the proposals of Ehud Barak in 2000, actually.
nmgscp 4 months ago
@nmgscp I think it would be appropriate for all people in the region to have the option of becoming citizens of either Israel or Palestine once the borders are decided. Should an individual opt not to be a citizen, what would their option be - a permanent resident? This would cover both arabs (or anyone) in Israel and jews in the west bank.
firstonethrough 4 months ago
@firstonethrough What is "the region" for you? Being it all the region of Israel+Palestinian territories, I agree, but that would also imply the end of the Israeli "Jewish" state, since a very large portion of people living under Israeli-occupied zones are not Jews...
nmgscp 4 months ago
@firstonethrough If by "the region" you consider Palestinian territories (namely West Bank), then I also agree, given that it is agreed between both parts that Israelis living in Palestine are expatriates, and therefore considered as Israeli-nationals but subject to residential rules of Palestine (as immigrants are everywhere)... If by "the region" you consider only Jerusalem, I think that in terms of history, not only Muslims but Christians too (a lot) have a lot of legitimate claims over it.
nmgscp 4 months ago
@firstonethrough Anyway, I myself think that all that religious discussions are a big bulshit... One of my favourite comedians is actually Bill Maher... surprised?
nmgscp 4 months ago
Let me give some examples of divided cities, in practice, that have more than 50.000 people: San Diego / Tijuana; Copenhagen / Malmö (disputable by my own experience, but I also know that a lot of ppl living in Malmö work in Kbh), Detroit / Windsor, Brazzaville / Kinshasa, Lille metropolitan area, Basel metropolitan area (I've actually been in Basel, I'm quite aware of that), Buffallo / Niagara Falls....
nmgscp 5 months ago
Listen, I am dead serious that I would like to have the text to this video to use. I will refer people to see this but I would also like to integrate some of the points you've made. This message should be placed in the context of more clear descriptions of their history and plans, why the question itself is outrageous. Start with watching my uploads "50 Years War, Israel and the Arabs" & I will teach anyone why Palestine has no real chance for a peaceful state without complete wholesale change.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
The question itself is outrageous & a completely insane attempt that was proved useless in 2000. Get over the useless, dangerous question & focus on the real facts, not old fantasies. If Israel had been able to END THE CONFLICT in 2000 w THAT offer, that WAS their choice but it was proved that even to talk to these criminals simply gets their heads fatter on their way to complete the plans for destruction of Israel through posing as a "state" while having no sovereignty due to their own choices.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
I don't have a problem with this video, but I personally prefer to focus on salient points. It shouldn't be divided because of the absolute critical fact that the question itself implies falsely that the Palestinians have an equal right of sovereignty w Israel when they have virtually no sovereign rights at all! The question itself is absurd & only even taken seriously due to he critical overzealous enthusiasm of Jimmy Carter & his delusions of demigod status in politics. He should be in prison.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
Where were the muslims when the children of Israel built their Holy City Jerusalem with David?
SSUstufRudel 5 months ago
@SSUstufRudel As I'm sure you know, neither Christianity nor Islam were yet created when King David ruled in Jerusalem.
firstonethrough 5 months ago 2
@firstonethrough That's true, though I'm labelled as a Christian, I still worship the same God whom the people of Israel do. :)
SSUstufRudel 5 months ago
One Jerusalem, One city undivided.
mierpaul 6 months ago 3
so basicly according to your Islam - jews have no holy sites.
the problem is the jews was here much before you, and now THEY have the power, so - NO ONE ASKING YOU.
SuperMoviee 6 months ago
Can you imagine if Jews or Christians tried to take away Mecca or Medina? That's what's going on here. See how ridiculous it is?
israelawareness1 6 months ago 4
I guess some People didn't do their Homework or watch the Video before Commenting!
MrREALLY101 6 months ago
Dios bendiga a Israel,su tierra y su gente.
paradoxicus 6 months ago
give jeruselam back to jews
overlord848 6 months ago
confuse the issue til you forget,the Palestines were living under a Turkish mandate b4 the Allies defeated the Ottoman empire and the mandate was given to the Jews by the Brits .So you see there was never a Palestinian state. When you live under a mandate of a foreign nation its not your land,basically you are leasing the land from the Turkish govt.,the Palestinians knew this when they settled there from Cyprus the Aegian and payed their taxes.
PAULOcbi 6 months ago 3
I LOVE ISRAEL -i !
Greetings from Germany !
proengelsrael 6 months ago 3
People don't understand that the sites in East Jerusalem and in the old city had Jewish holy significance way before Islam came there.
stars1836 6 months ago 4
@stars1836 but those are arabic jews . today, the arabic jews are the minorities and are oppressed just like other arabs , regardless if they are muslims or christians in israel. the "new" jews is claiming the land as their's. its like a muslim chinese from china suddenly comes to mecca and claim the land as their's, just because they are muslim. get you facts right
routermen 6 months ago
@routermen Israel is Jewish not Muslim
ShmuelYaakov 6 months ago 3
You always make the male the stupid one and female one corrects him. Typical of feminism brainwashed people.
ReconciledSinner 6 months ago
@ReconciledSinner In general, women's brains are better in certain areas and all of us need to correct our husbands.=) In average, women can be smarter than men, but supersmart are usually males only.
Men seem to lack emotional maturity.
sopranoms 6 months ago
@sopranoms Not true. Wasn't talking to you anways.
ReconciledSinner 6 months ago
Another model of boundary 'divided' city: The Uruguayan city of Rivera and Brasilian Santana do livramento. In fact they are not divided. The boundary is an avenue (Avenida Internacional). People can pass from one to the other side without check. Customs are located at the cities outlets.
eliezer017 6 months ago
Jerusalem was divided by the Arab siege. Thousands of Jews were expelled.
scottadler 6 months ago 3
who is against Israel is against Almighty God our Father,read The Holy Bible,tomorow can be to late!!!Viva Israel !!!Amen.
spynu85 6 months ago
Jerusalem must never be divided again. It's the capital of Israel. It must never be surrendered or included in any future negotiations.
TheSampancho 6 months ago
@TheSampancho Almighty God bless you my brother!!!Viva Israel The Gods chosen poeple!!!Amen.
spynu85 6 months ago
I would not call this video "I hate Israel" but it will probably draw the haters to comment here (if they listen to the explanation). Excellent explanation, even if by
rabbits or mice? Jerusalem for Israel, forever Baruch HaShem
elanainisrael 6 months ago
Jerusalem belongs to the one true God , but He gives it to His Jewish people to dwell in, anyone whom tries to take it from them will have to deal with Him, although Israel must yet go through the time of jacobs trouble as they still reject Yeshua, the prophet Zechariah tells how it will be in the end when they finally recognise Him. Joseph is a wonderful picture of Yeshua.
tommy3lions 6 months ago
For the Jews, the significance of Jerusalem is quite clear. The Jewish connection to Jerusalem is an ancient and powerful one. Judaism made Jerusalem a holy city over three thousand years ago and through all that time Jews remained steadfast to it. Jews pray in its direction, mention its name constantly in prayers, close the Passover service with the wistful statement “Next year in Jerusalem,” and recall the city in the blessing at the end of each meal.
Jerusalem is not mention once in the Kuran
HONNESTVIEW 6 months ago
jerusalem is an integral part of israel.
martysgotmail301 6 months ago
East Jerusalem has the Western Wall and many other Jewish sites. Shouldn't East Jerusalem belong to the Jews, with your logic?
Mrpastry909 6 months ago
Otherwise,just live with us like a regular people. Like Albert Einstein.
melbourneopera 6 months ago
Comment removed
melbourneopera 6 months ago
So long the Jews believe Hashem as their God, they have right to exist b/cos they are right to be chosen, otherwise, No, b/cos chosen people can not be selected by man, but to live like that way in order to be justified. So I support the peaceful religious Jews side right to exist.
melbourneopera 6 months ago
Jerusalem belongs to Israel. Enough said.
Herb615 6 months ago 4
@Herb615 Jerusalem Belongs To Gd & His People he Jews
RegemUza 6 months ago
Only under Israel has Jerulalem been open to people of all religions. All live under the same protection. It's as it should be and as it will be.
MrBillybates1000 6 months ago
muslims are the cancer of the world !!
TheXGaMeR16 6 months ago
lol its google translate? ur gonna fail with those lias
MrBietarZona 6 months ago
And synagogues were burned, and holy sites were destroyed. Western Wall became garbage dump. Is that right? Compare that to Jerusalem under Israeli rule. Each time i vist Jerusalem, I see thousands of Jews at the Kotel, thousands of Christains at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and thousands of Muslims at the Dome of the Rock/al-aqsa mosque. NOW that is fair, and how it should be, and no one should tell Israel to change this!
israelawareness1 6 months ago
U.N. tells Israel to divide Jerusalem.
Israel divides Jerusalem.
U.N. condemns Israel that this is Apartheid, because they are segregating the Jews from the Muslims.
That's probably what would happen. And let's not forget, if Jerusalem comes under Palestinian control, non-Muslims would be barred from entering and worshiping in Jerusalem. This is what happened under Jordanian rule from 1949-1967. Even Christians had restrictions.
israelawareness1 6 months ago
Am Israel Chi ! There is no change of anti-Semitic minds no matter what facts and documents one would present to them. antisemitism is genetic disorder.
mk181818 6 months ago
@mk181818
I'd disagree. Read Son of Hamas, written by the son of a founder of Hamas. He changed from supporting terrorism and wanting Israel to be destroyed, to supporting Israel and converted to Christianity. And his book explains why he changed. HINT: It has to do with actually seeing Israel's treatment of Palestinians with his own eyes, as opposed to the lies he was fed.
israelawareness1 6 months ago
@berenjervin
I'd disagree. I'm friends with many Muslims, even some that support Israel, and they'd find that very disgracing. The only Muslims that are indoctrinated to hate and dance with explosives are the terrorists and Gazans.
israelawareness1 6 months ago
@israelawareness1 ...and Iranians muslims, and Al-Quida, and Taliban, and muslim's brotherhood muslims, and Hisbala's muslims, and Iraqis muslims, and american muslims which were celebrated 911, and Syrian thugs muslims, and Chechens muslims, and Egyptians muslims, and Turkish muslims, and all of those idiots muslims organized flotillas-shit, and Norwegian muslims, and European muslims, and Ethiopian muslims, and Sudanese muslims etc... But the rest of them are peaceful angels...
mk181818 6 months ago 3
@mk181818
That's a very large generalization. I work in America at a hospital and one of the doctors i work with is a Muslim doctor and we are very good friends (and i wear a kippah, so he knows I'm Jewish). I know someone in LEBANON who is anti-Hezbollah, anti-Hamas, anti-terrorism, and supports Israel, and says that "Israel is Israel, people need to accept that." And he's Muslim. So yes, that's a very very large generalization and stereotype. Also, read Son of Hamas, good book.
israelawareness1 6 months ago
@mk181818
What's astonishing is that the only people you hear expressing their voice are the ones who want Israel destroyed and want to conquer the world. And that's unfortunate. And then you have people who are anti-terrorism, and believe in honor killings and non equal rights for women. And still, you do have some very good Muslims who just want peace and equality. Don't underestimate this.
israelawareness1 6 months ago
Isreal should jut squash the little pie makers and be done with it.
MegaHouseGuy 6 months ago
God knows the day and the exact hour that He will intervene. YESHUA
dewerbylhserf 6 months ago
They know not that they provoke the L-rd's wrath. Oh well.......
lifeishooey 6 months ago
Great video! Simply put but oh so true!
alma6911 6 months ago
Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. There is no such thing historically as the West Bank. It is really Judea. There's no such thing as a historical Palestinian people. The Arabs are USING the so-called palestinians as pawns, for a shield and a weapon . Saudi Arabia is the real enemy.
by the way - do you know who employs the vast majority of the so-called palestinians? Yep, you guessed it, Israelis !
largraf 6 months ago 2
@largraf Meh... that's so ignorant. I stand up for Israel but not the right to steal land, plunder and opress. You say that there are no historical people called Paletineans. That's a lie or based on ignorance. Palestine and the Palestineans are a reality aswell as Israel and the Israelis. Two equally old people and countries. Old Israel was populated by Israelites, new Israel is populated by Israelis. Two different people. All your arguments can be broken down to apply on Israel and Israelis
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja I hate Israel too. They just won't stop defending themselves. What's wrong with them. And they also continue to employ all those Arabs/palestinians. Why do they do that? Then they keep creating all these scientific inventions that help blind people see and lame people to walk. Then they offer these to muslims as well as everybody else. They were the first medical team to go into Haiti after the earthquake. What are they, trying to score brownie points. God, I hate that.
largraf 6 months ago
@largraf You and who hates Israel? You're really retarded if you think I hate Israel. If you fail to get my point then ask instead of behaving like a moron.
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja There is not one curse word nor any name calling in my posts. Unlike yours.
The so-called palestinians are not descended from the Philistines. Being Greek myself, I would find that assertion very OFFENSIVE. Us Greeks don't teach our children to become suicide bombers, we don't expect something for nothing. When part of Cypress was taken from us by Muslim Turks, we didn't become suicide bombers to push the Turks into the sea. No, the pales's are not descended from Greeks ! ! !
largraf 6 months ago
@largraf "There is not one curse word nor any name calling in my posts. Unlike yours" Pathetic. You implyed that i hate Israel. I said "IF your think i do, THEN you're really retarded. So if you do think i hate Israel I'm only pointing out a fact. If you dont think i do, then dont take it personally because then i dont think youre retarded. Just ignorant when it comes to the Israel/Palestine conflict. I wont bother to comment the racist bullshit about "differences" between Palestines and Greeks
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja So you don't consider calling me a moron and retarded as name calling? What DO you call it - a friendly pat on the back?
largraf 6 months ago 3
@largraf I call it an honest answer and a challenge for you to discuss this serious issue on a serious level. Say there are no Palestines is exactly what the same kind of peopl on the "other side" say about Israelis. They say; "there are no Israelis" despite the fact that millions of children in both Palestine and Israel has been born as Palestines and Israelis. That's a fact. And again, read what i wrote. IF you...blabla... and if you DONT then...blablabla. Try to catch up a little please
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja You also called me ignorant. Jasmine - that's a lovely name. Are you muslim? That would explain allot of things.
largraf 6 months ago
@largraf I have no faith in any kind of god/gods. It doesnt interest me. The question; "is there a god" is impossible to answer which makes the question completely irrelevant and pointless. It will only end up in believing either this or that without any proof. That's why i don't care. Yes i think you're ignorant, that's no curse or "calling names". Im not saying you're ignorant in general though. I said that you're either lying or are ignorant when it come to the Israel/Palestine conflict
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja Now I understand. You are Godless. Now, I will tell you. There are two camps - God's camp & the camp for everybody else including the godless. For someone godless, it doesn't make sense that you care about anything. GOD is LIFE!!. Why should you care about little children being blown to bits when you profess that you are godless. Make sense to me GIRL, DON'T BS ME. The whole world has had enough BS. If you don't hold to absolute principles of God and Life, then keep your trap shut
largraf 6 months ago
@largraf Sorry but i can't take anything you worte in your last reply as serious. I mean... it's ludicrous to see someone ask why I should care about children if i dont believe in god/gods as if religious people werent behind most of the conflicts and wars of today. LMAO! Life is proven to be truth. God is just a word used by you religious people. You could aswell believe in Santa, unicorns, elfs, trolls or gods. Try to prove the existanse of any of these imaginations. Do it, I challange you!
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@largraf
>The so-called palestinians are not descended from the Philistines
Even if they were, it would be a pointless distinction that only a moron would focus on. Its not lineage, its beliefs.
The history of the greek people stands on its own. The world without Greece and its people would be a far far worse place.
The world without islam - i.e. those muslims that drive the islamic bus and all the hatred in that "religion" - would be a far far better place.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja Oh, I forgot, the Israelis are constantly giving things to these Arabs/palestinians for free, like medical care. And they even allowed them to have their own state - imagine that - ask the Arabs/palestinians themselves and they'll tell you that they are Arabs. All the Arab countries don't want them, but Israel still lets them stay and employs them and even lets them have government positions. God, I hate Israel.
largraf 6 months ago 2
@largraf How good for you, now go and educate yourself and get a clue. Maybe you'll learn how tto stop hating :)
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>right to steal land, plunder and opress
If you look at the actual history of this conflict, you will find that its exactly muslims that are attempting to do this.
Muslims rose up in 1936 and tried to drive the jews out so they could make an islamic state.
Turns out, jews fought back, and after 12 years of conflict, formed Israel.
>Palestineans are a reality
This is factually false.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin There are borders of Israel defined by UN . There are borders defined for Palestine by UN. Fact is that the Israel expanded a lot compared to the original borders. Another fact is that UN has accpeted some of the expansion of Israel, the borders of 67. That mean that anything outside of the borders of 67 is NOT Israel. It belongs to the Palestines. Want to dispute that?
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>Want to dispute that?
Sure, look at a map. QED.
The simple fact is muslims have forced war on Israel multiple times to change the borders. And guess what? They did change.
All this "debate" about 1967 borders is just a milestone towards the destruction of israel that islamic states always talk about.
Palestinians never existed until muslims invented them after the formation of israel.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin Yet again you're trying to make this to be something about Jes and Muslims. Let us focus on the issue. The Israelis and Palestineans please. The borders of 67 has nothing to do with any destruction of Israel. It is the borders of Israel. The occupation of Palestinean land is however destroying Israel from inside. The working Israelis pays billions of Shekels for these settlements in taxmoney. The so called settlers are a major reason for the never ending conflict
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
Look, this issue is about muslims and jews. This conflict occurs because of the islamic teachings that place an obligation on muslims to fight to establish Sharia world wide. its exactly the same teachings that are driving the dozen odd other islamic conflicts in the world.
A failure to recognize this is a non starter. And a failure to recognize that palestinians ELECTED Hamas, which has a mandate in its charter for the destruction of israel is also a non starter.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
The question in my mind is "Do you really not understand the nature of the conflict?" or "Are you just trying to throw out propaganda to confuse people over what this conflict is really all about?"
This isnt just my opinion. This is stated over and over by islamic religious and political leaders all over the world.
If you want to stick to reality, great. Otherwise, nothing to talk about.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin LOL. You shouldnt talk about sticking to reality with all your prejudiced ignorant nonsense. You have proved youself to be prejudiced and ignorant with your assumption that I'm a Muslim or from ME. How can you even believe that I can take anything you say for serious when you do that? I mean, all you show when you're behaving like that is that you're ignorant and not interested about facts or reality. So I'm laughing right in your face for your last pathetic sentence
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
You are defending the people perpetuating a conflict out of religious beliefs. Its a natural assumption are a palestinian, or a muslim.
>How can you even believe that I can take anything you say for serious
Easy - facts and evidence. You should try it. Its how people decide what is true and what is false.
The very idea you would just take my word for it is absurd. Its as absurd as you just believing the victimization propaganda from muslims.
Go read the history.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>You have proved youself to be prejudiced and ignorant with your assumption
So, you are claiming because I was ignorant of where your ancestors came from, I'm ignorant about everything?
Sorry, thats just dishonesty on your part. (Or worse).
>I can take anything you say for serious
Just believing people is what got you into this mess. Try using facts and evidence. Its how people decide what is true and what isnt.
Your laughter is the laughter of the wilfully ignorant bufoon.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin "Palestinians never existed until muslims invented them after the formation of israel"
Is'nt that pretty much what the anti-Israeli Islamists use to say about Israelis? They say that Israelis never existed before the Zionists invented them. Can you see how stupid and totally pointless a statement like that is concidering that Israelis has lived as Israelis for around 63 years? Can you see that? If you can, then you must see that is equally stupid to say about Palestineans
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
I've never heard muslims use that argument, but I wont disagree with it, even though I could disagree with aspects of that claim. i.e. these are largely 2 sides of the same coin, but the motivations are different.
The simple fact is this started with 2 religious populations living in the same geographical area.
One religion (islam) tried to depose of the other, and it backfired. Its abundantly clear that these 2 populations can not live together.
cont
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin "One religion (islam) tried to depose of the other, and it backfired. Its abundantly clear that these 2 populations can not live together"
And why is that? Because of the extremists on both side of the conflict. It's because of them the other people, the majority, are suffering.
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>And why is that?
That is the million dollar question. But why are you asking me? I just told you why, and that I based that decision on facts and evidence.
Now its up to you to decide if it is true or not. And I'm suggesting that facts and evidence will lead you to the truth, and that just believing what others say may not - especially if those people are biased - like palestinians would be.
berenjervin 6 months ago
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
And again, going with this whole "evidence" novel (to you) idea.
Here is a discussion about a single verse in the quran
watch?v=oMXK4H8_qoc
I want you to think about the implications of it when people tell you they believe this book is the "word of god".
Now, give the couple of clips I just showed you above, does it match, or refute that behavior?
This verse, and hundreds of others, are all about fighting to establish muslim rule over others.
cont
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
Now take a look at existing islamic states. They are all based in whole or in part, on variations of sharia law.
Does Pakistan execute people for blasphemy against islam?
Does Iran execute gays?
Does Saudi execute people, allow women to drive, or even allow non muslims into mecca?
The problem is you dont consider evidence, and you assume people share YOUR cultural values.
Would you do this for, say, cannibals?
I'm not biased here, I'm grasping with facts and truth.
Try it.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
Here is a basic overview of islam around the world.
watch?v=2lXOadrjpYU
Now you tell me. Religion of peace? Or religion of conquest?
Reality is that place defined by facts and evidence.
Fantasy is that place defined by opinions and wishful thinking.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin There is no such thing as a imple fact about this conflict. It begun even before the Ottomans who were before the "British Mandate of Palestine". The problems between Palestine and Israel are much created by Europe, US and of course also the former leaders of ME who has fought for that piece of land. You can't claim it begun with the creation of Israel today. It begun way before that.
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
What?
>It begun even before the Ottomans
The ottomans annexed the region of Palestine in 1516.
>much created by Europe, US
The US declaration of independence was in 1776.
So, the US caused this problem 260 years before it was even a state?
Now THAT is some pretty cool mojo isnt it?
>You can't claim it begun
Yes I can. Why? Because current hostilities began in 1936. Thats what I said, and its a historical fact.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
But I WILL agree that hostilities between muslims and non muslims in general began before this conflict.
In fact, hostilities started in the early 600s, when mohammad went to Medina, and started preaching war against unbelievers. Muslims have been in conflict with their neighbours ever since, and the islamic umma has been growing ever since.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
So do you support a democratic state such as israel who recognizes religious freedoms in its borders?
Or do you support an islamic state that would persecute other religions - exactly like you see in every other islamic state in the world?
Palestinians would be welcome in Israel if they did not have the political agenda to destroy israel and genocide jews. Jews would never be welcome in an islamic state.
Its that simple.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin Of course I support a democratic Israel withing the Israeli borders. Israel is however everything but democratic when it comes to the occupation and settlements inside Palestine. I also support an independet democratic Palestine, inside of the borders of Palestine. What i never will support is any of the extremists on either side of this conflict since they are the major reason for it to continue. Lieberman and his settlers belong to the exstremists aswell as Hamas
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>the occupation and settlements inside Palestine
There has never -at ANY point in history- been a palestinian state. So claiming "Israel is occupying Palestine" is pure propaganda. You are assuming some fictitious state, then claiming Israel is occupying it.
This is not my opinion. It is HISTORICAL FACT.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>Of course I support a democratic Israel
Bullcrap. If you did, you would pay attention to historical facts, and at least make an attempt to understand what this conflict is about.
>independet democratic Palestine
This will NEVER happen. Why? Not even palestinians want this. What they want is the destruction of israel, and to replace it with an Islamic state.
This is not my opinion. This is the stated claims of palestinians.
So you are supporting the destruction of israel.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>inside of the borders of Palestine
What borders of palestine? There has never been a palestinian state at ANY point in history.
Again, this is not my opinion. This is historical fact.
Israel faces an "opponent" who openly promises their genocide, engages in constant terrorism - INCLUDING the use of child suicide bombers, and has invaded them multiple times in history.
The goal of Palestinians is very clear - its genocide.
What part of this dont you understand?
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
I do agree that palestinians lost land and homes, but so did jewish all across the middle east.
And the reason palestinians lost their homes was because they failed to drive off the jews and take THEIR homes.
Sucks that this happened, but its not the first time in history people failed in an attack, and suffered as a people because of it.
Supporting palestine is supporting exactly what people falsely accuse jews of doing.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin To me it look like you're mixing things up. You say that Jews lost land and home across the ME. Let me clarify. I'm not talking about ME nor do i talk about either Muslims or Jews. I talk about Israelis and Palestines only. You cant blame the Palestine for with other countries has done. The Paletines are used by Iran, Israel, EU, US, Syria and so on as a brick in a geopolitical "game". Those who pay the biggest price for it is the Palestines and what do they get for it? Nothing.
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
The simple fact is muslims tried to push the jews out of the area in 1936, and after 12 years of bloody conflict, Israel was formed. Jews all across the ME were forced out of their homes, and were forced to go to Israel. Muslims who believed jews should be pushed out were also pushed out, and left to rot by islamic states.
Why do you hold Israel responsible for what your grandparents caused?
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin Again... it begin to be boring to have to repeat this. This IS a conflict between Palestine and Israel. What Syria, Egypt etc. did is another debate!
You wrote: "Why do you hold Israel responsible for what your grandparents caused?"
Care to explain that question concidering I'm a Swede with a Swedish heritage back to the Vikings?
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>Swedish heritage
Hah! Let me just pull my foot out of my mouth first. (if you understand that).
I sometimes fall into the "trap" that pro palestinian supporters are muslim, and I did that here. This is a polarized topic, and its the split is almost universally pro palestinian muslim vs non muslim.
Let me rephrase that to "Why do palestinians hold Israel responsible for what their grandparents did?"
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin Yes, this IS a polarized conflict. That's the very reason for why i refuse to let me get traped in either side of the conflict. As i see it there are basicly four groups. Two of them are suffering for what the other two groups do. First two groups are the extremists, hate- fear- and warmongering Israelis and Palestines. They fuel this conflict on an everyday basis. Then we have the other two groups. The Israelis and Palestines that just want to live their lifes in peace
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
This is a dangerous over simplification. I used to think the very same way, and it took me a long time to figure out its pure fantasy. Let me try to explain. I'm going to use islam as the example, but this same reasoning applies to israel, and every other ideology on the planet.
Note I'm talking about islam here. Because that is what motivates palestinians. If you dont want to accept this, all I can do is bury you in evidence until you do. And I will.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
Its posible for a palestinian to shoot rockets at Israel and kill israeli children, then immediately go out and save a drowning person.
Its not the person that is good or bad, but the acts they commit. And those acts are influenced by the ideology they follow.
This whole idea there are extremists is false. Its not the person thats extreme, its the ideas in the islamic ideology that are extreme.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
Execution for blasphemy
Marriage to children
jihad for allah
Execution for adultery
All of these are in islam. At what point do you decide someone is extreme? Its when they start acting on extreme ideas.
And one extreme idea in islam is that allah has ordered muslims to fight and kill the jews.
And here it is straight from muslims on a broadcast on islamic TV.
watch?v=zjuDTO8fgqM
This conflict is simple. Its the extreme idea that muslims have an obligation to kill jews.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
And here is a glimpse into the dysfunctional society you seem to think are a peaceful people
watch?v=HiQAi-_53h8
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin "Why do palestinians hold Israel responsible for what their grandparents did?"
They don't. But some of them do. Exactly the same with some Israelis. The blame even the Palestines in the West Bank for what Hamas is doing in Gaza. They are parts of the extremists who make sloppy sweeping statements about either Israelis or Palestines in general. Based on prejudiced opinions, hate, fear and ignorance. I can't answer exactly why they think as they do. I can only speculate
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>But some of them do
So, I guess the question then becomes, "Will you excuse the terrorism that chronically comes from this population because there are some that do not commit terrorism"?
This raises the question - "Why do palestinians do nothing to stop the terrorism?" I mean, if most of them disagree with it, they should consider it a criminal act, and charge them accordingly.
Never happens. Actions speak louder than words. Instead muslims universally condemn israel.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>Exactly the same with some Israelis.
Wrong. I dont see israelis using jewish children as suicide bombers, invading islamic states, or preaching the genocide of palestinians.
>The blame even the Palestines in the West Bank for what Hamas is doing in Gaza
No, they blame both of them for common actions....terrorism.
>sloppy sweeping statements
This whole discourse is warped because of islamic propaganda like "islam means peace". And there are radical and moderate muslims.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>I can't answer exactly why they think as they do. I can only speculate
If you want to understand why they think like they do, you should learn a little about the prophet of islam, and the quran, including the concepts of taqiyya and abrogations.
If you fill childrens heads with radical ideas, they will commit radical acts as adults.
This includes racism, cannibalism, terrorism, and the belief they have the god given obligation to kill.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
The root of this problem is the ideology in islam. A child growing up in an islamic state has basically NO CHANCE. They get indoctrinated into this ideology since birth, and most can not shake it off. And the ones that do will tell you exactly why islam is a problem.
People like Walid Shoebat and Wafa Sultan grew up as muslims, and Walid was even a PLO terrorist.
Listen to what they say for their perspective.
Muslims are the worst victims of the islamic ideology.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
You should read the article "The terrifying brilliance of islam" (easily findable) if you want to understand why islam is a problem in the world.
Sorry for the long winded response.
berenjervin 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Jasminewynja
>What Syria, Egypt etc. did is another debate!
No it isnt. Sorry, you are failing to understand the driving force behind this conflict.
The driving force is Islamic teachings. Period.
I'm just not going base a discussion on false premises.
So I guess the discussion shifts to "Is islam a factor in this conflict?". I say it is, and so do muslims.
Here is a simple description of what this conflict is about
watch?v=63hTOaRu7h4
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
And here are two islamic religious leaders telling you flat out this is a "muslim vs non muslim" conflict
watch?v=zjuDTO8fgqM
watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY
The second clip tells it flat out - even if Israel is destroyed, muslims will still hunt down and kill jews.
And if you are paying attention, he tells you christians are next.
So after Israel is gone, you will be facing the very same conflict. In fact Sweden already is, in Malmo.
Study islam, and you will reach the same understanding
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
Also, palestinians - as a people - today demand the destruction of israel, and many even preach the genocide of jews for religious reasons.
Its a bit hypocritical for palestinians to accuse israel of doing exactly what they are trying to do.
The bottom line is the main problem palestinians have is islam. So long as you guys follow this religion, no one in the world wants you. Because islam preaches the overthrow of governments to establish sharia.
Harsh words, but true words
berenjervin 6 months ago
@berenjervin No they demand their land back. They demand Palestine back to the Palestines.
Harash words? No, they are ignorant words mixed with prejudiced assumptions without any kind of fact to back them up!
Islamism is a problem, Zionism is a problem, Nazism is a problem, Communism is a problem. Judaism, Christianity and Islam is not a problem, The extremists are! Like Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira for example who advocate killing of non-Jews. Same kind of extremism.
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
Without any kind of fact? I've given you the words of prominent islamic religious leaders in the ME. These words - and many others - are aired openly on islamic television stations, and yet you deny them as ignorance?
Sorry, but you are flat out wrong. Dont listen to me, listen to muslims themselves. Not the taqiyya based western TV interviews where muslims tell you islam means peace.
Listen to muslims talk amongst themselves.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira for example who advocate killing of non-Jews
ok - is this guy following jewish religious teachings? Are jews blowing people up around the world to establish jewish states? Or jews immigrating to countries and demanding people live by jewish laws?
Nope.
So while that guys comment IS extremist, trying to compare someone NOT following their religious teachings to people who ARE following their religious teachings is dishonest.
berenjervin 6 months ago
@Jasminewynja
>No they demand their land back
No, they demand the land their ancestors lost in war, AND the land owned by the jews when the conflict started.
You are essentially saying its ok for muslims to take land, but not for jews.
Thats wrong, especially when the conflict was FORCED upon the jews in 1936.
So, you support the palestinians when they started war to acquire land, but condemn the jews when they were forced to defend themselves, and acquired land?
berenjervin 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@berenjervin Would you pleas care to explain what you mean in the following quote?
Bereniervin: "Supporting palestine is supporting exactly what people falsely accuse jews of doing"
Jasminewynja 6 months ago
God bless and protect Israel.
cowgirlmoon 6 months ago
Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Suck that black penis! LOL
cikenberry3 6 months ago
@kelleyclip
Pretty much every conflict in the world today - save the koreas - are muslims "defending islam&q