Defining a movement on the basis of a dictionary is just as idiotic as christian defining religious beliefs based on the bible. Give me a break. Actions speak louder than words and feminists actions don't match their mouths. They seek equality by ignoring half the population. Yeah that screams equality.
ok buddy, the definition can be whatever it wants. The actual movement however is different, why don't you actually research it, not just read some definition
You are the moron, sir. Look at a lot of the laws passed by women's groups in the UK, Canada, the US and Australia.
In your attempt to make this video to show that you are a voice of reason you have proved yourself otherwise. I'm a moderate, Independent politically and Science/facts guide me ideologically. I think you need to look at the propaganda, psuedo science and misinformation that these women's groups 'provide' that help them get sexist laws passed.
@MotherNatureisBiased I could lead you down the primrose path and mock you with each way you're being inaccurate and imprecise, but I don't feel like it. You're ignoring the point of the video, which is that the sort of "feminist" group you're bitching about is a very small fraction of feminists as a whole. A small LOUD faction, but it's the extremists who get all the press.
@stealthbadger Absolutely pointless bringing that up. I think you should have a good look at the men's movements and especially the 'Father's Rights' movements around the world. They obviously would not exist if women's groups didn't lobby to get nonsense laws passed or if feminism really did want equality.
@MotherNatureisBiased Okay, first of all, you're a fucking egocentric douchebag in all the worst ways. Now that we have that out of the way, what the fuck is it with the worst of the MRA movement (meaning shitbags like you) who feel that absolutely everyone who does not fall into your line must not have any clue of "what is going on."
Well fuck you and the pint-size pretty pink pony you rode in on. I'm familiar w/ the movement, I'm familiar w/ the problems, and you're still stupid. (cont)
@stealthbadger Bringing up what I did is part of actually solving a problem - if you want to find a solution, you find (as specifically as you can) the source of your butthurt and trauma, and then you deal with that. But no! You'd rather smear blame all over the place in an orgiastic cry of sexual and emotional frustration.
Guess what, pal: it's not going to help anything, period. If you want to talk about solutions, stick around. If you're just here to bitch, kindly go fuck yourself.
@stealthbadger lol. Ad hominems attacks from a feminizai....how...unoriginal. It always resorts this because you're bigots. If you want to use shaming language and try to put me in the stereotypical box of being the sexually frustrated, emotionally frustrated, etc. Have at it. You just help prove my point. Using curse words and ad hominem attacks just show how immature you are. Thanks for this vid and your comments so I can screen shoot them and post them on my website.
@stealthbadger Well, if that's how you feel about it, fine. You prove my point then, mangina. You're a proud feminist and I hear your roar. The vast majority of people oppose feminism if you haven't taken the time to look around. Women's groups and the stats/things they support will be severely scrutinized all thanks to it's ridiculous screeching. What's funny is that it's people like you that think they're the voice of reason but haven't realized you're quite the opposite.
Considering you don't even appear to know what an ad hominem attack is, I'm not threatened. Here's a hint for you: an ad hominem is using an attack *as* an argument. I stated quite clearly why you're full of shit, and backed it up with things you've completely failed to address, because you don't want to solve problems - you just want to piss and moan.
@stealthbadger ad hominem-An argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case; a logical fallacy that involves a personal attack. Seriously, why do you even try.
@MotherNatureisBiased If I'd said "you didn't get my argument because you're a fucking pinheaded douchebag," that would be an ad hominem. "You didn't get my argument, you pinheaded douchebag" is a statement, with an insult on top, not an ad hominem.
@stealthbadger Since you also doing the feminazi denial thing about the ad hominems you just made me realize that it is further pointless to argue with you because of the whole ego thing and wanting to be right even thought most people on this planet realize feminazism is not. Have a day.
@stealthbadger Thanks for keep proving my point, feminazi. "Okay, first of all, you're a fucking egocentric douchebag in all the worst ways. Now that we have that out of the way, what the fuck is it with the worst of the MRA movement (meaning shitbags like you) who feel that absolutely everyone who does not fall into your line must not have any clue of "what is going on." is ad hominem. The very definition of ad hominem is to attack the person's character instead of answering the argument.
@MotherNatureisBiased No. Ad hominems would be "you don't understand what I'm talking about because you're an MRA douchebag." An insult would be "you don't understand what I'm talking about, you MRA douchebag." The word "because," which brings in an irrelevancy and attempts to use it as an argument (because ad hominem is a subset of the red herring fallacy) is the clear sign its an ad hominem. Now fuck off and go take a basic logic course, you moron. :D
@stealthbadger You just proved that you really don't know anything. Just like a feminazi. Go read a book someday. Or rather for a simpleton, like yourself, go to merriam-websterDOTcom and search ad hominem. I made the mistake of thinking you had the intellect to even debate but you don't even know the words coming out of your own mouth. I'm done here.
@MotherNatureisBiased If what you say is true (setting aside the fact that m-w.com is not a dictionary of philosophy or logic, and that its definition is a crappy one), then you opened up with an ad hominem with your very first sentence on this post. Since you're wrong (I suggest the Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy - google it - or just Wikipedia if you're in a hurry), I think you'll find that even you calling me a mangina was only an insult (and a boring one at that).
@MotherNatureisBiased I'm sure he gets this type of response quite a bit. He has trouble making a good point, even with a dictionary in hand, and probably feels stupid or dumb for not making a good point. So what does he do? He treats others the same, and resorts to name calling. It's a vicious cycle and goes no where. I'm starting to feel sorry for him.
Thank you, sir. SO much. Thank you. Thank you for joining me in trying to convey to these idiots this same fact, for I have made videos on it...and it's never enough for these sheeple.
That is NOT true. I was PRO-feminist once. I do NOT get my definitions from Rush Limbaugh (I am left wing, perhaps too much so). I am opposed to this movement now. because of my encounters with feminism and my personal experience with applied feminism in my family life, work, and sex life. Feminism absolutely is oppression of men and women. It unjustly seeks to redefine men and women for a higher purpose which goes beyond this topic. Feminist recruits are hardly aware of the damage they cause
You do realize you're talking about a very small subset of feminists, and that there is no overarching feminist mafia imposing a dogma from above, which your assertions would require? I mean wow....
@stealthbadger Truly, I don't even think of them as feminists, and think they've ruined the label (if I'm guessing right, you're talking about the political correctness/identity politics brigade, which I'm pissed off at for my own reasons).
@stealthbadger This is not a subset of anything but a greater movement fully funded by an oppressive government. The feminism I talk about is no more a subset of a group than a member of a cult is to it's cult. Realize the chocolate frosting with sprinkles on top feminism that you define is no different than the Civil rights movement. The feminism that brainwashes young girls into reading excerpts from Vagina Monologues is not a subset my friend, and thats just the tip of the iceberg.
@stealthbadger Wow, classic strawman. I never said that. I said that your idea of feminism as a movement is non-existent, because that definition belongs to the Civil Rights movement, and would not distinguish itself to a sex if it really was what it says it was. I'm saying that Feminism is a wolf in sheeps clothing, it is a form of oppression against men and women. It is hateful towards both sexes. I have seen it, I have experienced it, and I am now fighting it.
@yinyangbalance Wow, does it take effort to be that stupid? It's not a strawman, because I never claimed you said that. I claimed that was logically equivalent to what you said - which is true, because even saying that you're arguing by anecdote would be generous.
@stealthbadger You claim to be logical, then show your logic. Where does that equate? And I dont use words like "stupid" to label you in my argument, but you do. I can stoop down to your level just as easy. You are diverting from the point, and it is no wonder why. Its becoming very clear you have no argument, only a sprinkle-n-cream definition of feminism from a dictionary, and words like "idiot" and "stupid" as desperate plan-B route if the first one fails.
@yinyangbalance Nah. I just got bored and started ignoring you. When people are reaching for Dworkin and Solanis, but ignore Wolf, Klein, Augustin, and even Valenti, I know they're just cherry-picking the worst of the worst and enjoying having their blinders on. Seems like you and 31yo have been getting along well, so I decided to let you be. :D
40% of males kill themselves every year why do you think that is? Most of the time it's girlfriend or wife related. That's enough to make you want to give up on women altogether.
@theinnerbadger Dude you can't deny the fact that most divorces are initiated by women. Depression is a big problem amonst males. Just look at any modren girlband/singer what kinds of songs do they sing? OPEN YOUR EYES.
I support the real gender-equality feminists and oppose the fringe of sexist against men types calling themselves feminists as a shield to protect their bigotry. The former outnumber the latter.
Though basically those sexist bigots like NuclearNight aren't actually feminists at all. Nor is the FOX portrayal accurate (as usual).
I suppose I am a feminist based on the definition, but on the other hand I prefer "gender equality advocate" as it is harder to smear/mudsling than "feminist" is.
Thank you so much for posting this. You've gained a subscriber in me, for what it's worth. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to actually see a man upset about this.
I'm german (never listen to anything from Fox) and male and I defend feminism but I have to admit that the word "Feminism" is very misleading. It sounds like a movement exclusively made to help women. While they have a lot more problems in our society than men, it's not like men don't have any gender-specific problems at all. That's why I'm in favor of changing the name to something more fitting (equalism or whatever) and use the word feminism for those who exclusively fight for women.
I'm German, never listen to Limbough or Fox News, they are unkown in Germany. My definition for feminism is: "disapproval of masculinity". Not of men, mind you, but masculinity. Feminists usually also dislike masculine women. I know the wikipedia definition. If I give into it I've already lost, haven't I?
@stealthbadger Had to look that up and couldn't figure enough about it. Then again, it wouldn't really make any difference. I'm fully aware that the group of people who call themselves feminist are united by no other property than the mere label 'feminist'. The 'disaproval of masculinity' definition is an attempt to describe the most dominant trait of the group, even though not all members will not fit. Look, I really adore strong women. Most of the people I look up to are women. [...]
@stealthbadger Hirsi Ali is my greatest hero. She thinks she's a feminist, yet she can't really relate to other feminists. She doesn't understand why, I do. Feminism is largely like unions: They talk about injustice but really they are a pressure groups lobbying for as much power as they can. Hirsi Ali wants justice, that's why she's not compatible. I also realize that most feminists actuall are men, like you.
@john42t 1. You're wrong regarding "disapproval of masculinity," and I have no idea where the hell you got that.
Also, that's pretty damn insulting, basically saying in one breath that I'm not like the "bad" people and I'm effectively deluded "identifying" with them - as if the origin of the term, and my informed decision on what I choose to call myself was nothing compared to your beliefs without anything other than anecdotal evidence.
@stealthbadger You misunderstood. I meant that you are right to call yourself a feminist. You are not deluded in identifying with them. It's not like that you are not one of the bad people. You are.
@john42t So... I'm trying to be polite here, apologies if I come off a little testy. In the first 15 seconds you're saying that we should ignore the dictionaries, which we use for every single other word in our languages, and use your definition of feminism, and then go from there?
No. That's intellectually dishonest, especially since you use your definition to apply your assertions about what feminism is to people who don't fit the characteristics you ascribe to them.
Reaching people with a bias or a intellectual lazy streak is at the heart of this topic...and I still don't have a good answer other than peer pressure and "good" indoctrination (like critical thinking and research)
It's more likely these "morons" are being satirical towards the "fem-natzi's" Those groups who DO vocalize female superiority.
That being said, a clear distinction needs to be made between 1) feminism 2) fem- natzi and of course 3) media garbage (faux news)
To do that, you would need to argue people take time to read a topic, and use full sentences. The people that would sit through a 4 minute vid on being educated usually don't need it as much as it's a habit. lol
@Niveous23 In the comments here someone wrote that they were now proud to be able to say that they were a feminist, as by the definition given it fit with their humanism. So seeing feminism is polluted with the androgynist losers everyone seems to hate, why not the decent feminists shun feminism in favour of humanism? Everyone who shares dreams of equality for all can then share one banner leaving the monsters of feminism on their own.
@stealthbadger So do you! You think that its fine that it describes two different types of people with different agendas. When there is a perfectly good word that describes one of those groups better and groups them with like minded people. I think my use of feminist is better than yours. Like I said before any feminist can earn respect by showing they are not supremacists. I don't have blinkered thinking, like I think you do. You only care about the dictionary definition. cont..
@adolthitler The fact is the definition is written to the lofty goals of feminism, not to the reality. RL is more like the internet than you realise. The image feminists have is the ugly face of androgyny. Just like theism has the ugly face of misogyny. Not all theists are misogynists but it sticks in our minds because they are so vocal, and pushy. Try living in the real world and not the dictionary.
@stealthbadger You have always been laughing, and not paying attention. You think I have not met women? Women who are androgynist and claim to be feminist? I have also met women who claim to be feminist, and are equalist like myself. You are an androgynist. Women = good, men = bad. Any who believe in equality are not androgynist enough to be good. I call that based on your insistance that no one criticise feminism or feminists for androgynism.
@stealthbadger On the topic of bias, how is it that radical feminists get protection from you because the definition of feminism is noble? And is that your bias showing? You are a great rock thrower for someone in a glass house.
@adolthitler Considering how often I mock NuclearNight/iremythpurr and other radicals, now you're making stuff up that I can *demonstrably* disprove. :D
@stealthbadger I guessed already. Well then why do you oppose people not viewing feminism in a positive light based on their life experience of feminism? Why do you insist, we accept all feminism has to offer based purely on a dictionary definition? I don't understand the logic. Please explain how the dictionary beats real life.
@adolthitler Say you're a Liberal (just go with me for the purposes of this example - any political identification would do). If someone calling himself a "Liberal" (for example) decides to go around and beat the shit out of people, and says it's in the name of Liberals, and then Conservatives start spreading the line that all Liberals stand for is going and beating the shit out of people, wouldn't you be upset?
@stealthbadger Say for the sake of argument I don't say all feminists are men haters. Say for the sake of argument I say, they should abandon feminism, for equalism. Say I am an atheist and some atheist in america vandalised a church, and some other atheists are raising money to clean up the vandalism. Say I say atheist vandals bad, and atheist fundraisers good, say I say men hating feminists are bad and equalist feminists good. Say I say that due to the fact that I meet way more bad feminists..
@adolthitler I just automatically expect stupidity from a feminist, till they show otherwise. Same as I expect a muslim to be a total douche till shown otherwise. I also expect a christian to be an utter loon living in denial till I see otherwise. its my life experience teaching me something about the group. The individual has to earn more respect than the group has demolished.
@adolthitler The plural of anecdote is not data, and expecting other people to expect definitions based on your personal prejudices (literal pre-judging, read what you typed) is silly. Have a nice weekend, I'm done with you.
@stealthbadger It does not matter that you object to prejudging. We all do it, and its reasonable. I don't rant and rave at feminists, like most do at me for the crime of being a man. The fact that you refuse reality, for the dictionary in order to support the jerks, shows you have prejudged this issue also. I too am done. You don't have my respect, as I am sure I don't have yours.
@adolthitler i don't see how being androgynous makes someone a "loser". Both male and female cultures have a lot to offer in moderation. I'm all for stealing any useful idea for myself. :-) They should wave the banner of humanism, I can agree with that. The problem is not EVERYONE wants equality, some want to dominate. And for the sake of brevity, specific issues are addressed that have an underlying banner like equality (civil rights, gay rights, feminism) Is this good? idk.
@Niveous23 Hey thats all I was saying, that equality should be the goal. Feminism has a majority of its members violently wedded to the idea of flipping the power structure. Not equalisation. I also find it offensive that people want to fight for the equality of a small segment of humanity. If any one is oppressed how have we achieved equality? Yes its good to fight for the rights of an oppressed group and its a step in the right direction. I argue for women, and against feminists.
This is so cool! It sounds so simple, but I've never thought to look up the definition of feminist before. I can be proud to call myself feminist now; it fits nicely with my humanism. <3
they are fighting for womens rights,but NOT equality.
when was the last time you have seen a feminist propaganda to eliminate alimony?
i have had debates with feminists that get mad because of showing sexy women in commercials,but honestly...if that is that last thing they have to fight over,don't you think that means that we already live in an equal society?
i believe in equality between sexes and genres,that's why i hate feminism which is the most sexist movement of them all.
@FractalMachine You are creating a self selecting sample - and effectively declaring that the people who are fighting for equal rights are not feminists.
If you're going to redefine words in the midst of your argument, then you weren't listening to begin with.
@alatheir Since it involves communication and perception, it has everything to do with definitions - and you are not listening to the other feminists in the thread, only to the ones that fit your conceptions of what a feminist is.
This is an excellent example of why it's not an easy task.
@stealthbadger That is of course true. And if you communicate with them you should be polite and respect their definition during that argument. You should not, however, continue to use that definition just because a guy on YouTube told you he's smarter than you. So in the end, I'll find a definition that seems to fit most of the people who call themselves that. "those who promote equal rights for both genders" doesn't even come close. It's almost the opposite of it.
Thanks Badger, I have come up against a lot of people with some very strange ideas about feminism... as my uni Feminist Society hoodie says "Haters gon' hate" but I do get tired of having to give people the correct definition when I tell them I'm a feminist!
I must confess that I am no feminist as I believe that there r legitimate criticisms that can b raised against feminism both as a movement and a body of thought which show that is neither benevolent or that many of its assertions about the society r correct. However I agree that there is a great deal of ignorance about what feminism actually is which has partly been spread by anti-feminists disseminating disinformation in society...[cont]....
@AdamaKnowsBest [cont]...This has had the unfortunate affects of stifling useful discussion about feminism and its goals as well as leading 2 certain good deeds of feminists being devalued 2 a certain extent. Furthermore I would argue that the ignorance about feminism has helped 2 ensure that many of the criticisms espoused by critics of feminism r either wrong or illogical. Yet this is not 2 say that the critics of feminism don’t have valid arguments as they do.
So, white pride is fine and dandy. I mean, it's just being pride of being white. What's wrong with that?
Seriously, this is a bit silly. I'm not saying that critics of feminism don't exhagerate. They do. But definitions mean shit to me.
Defending feminism with it's definition is like killing some one with a hammer, and then claiming you're innocent because a hammer is a carpentering tool, not a deadly weapon .
@Zebarbas You're missing the part where I'm trying to point out that the people who study feminist theory and most feminist activists are not doing what Limbaugh, et al claim they are.
@stealthbadger Unfortunately though, a lot of those identifying themselves as feminists are not following that definition either. I fail to see how reciting the definition of a somewhat 'pure' form of any ideological/political movement has any meaning. In so far as what we see in actuality is a vast plethora of ideologies, all using the same label. Yet essentially different. Much like the 'christian' label has many adherents, yet few maxims many could generally accept. I see the same in feminism
What your doing is more analogous to explaining the meaning of 'christian' to an atheist, then telling them - see your previous definition is just from the wrong source. As you direct your definition towards anti-feminists or MRAs for eg.
Your analogy here is actually quite ridiculous, this amounts to arguing with a radical feminist about 'masculinity' or 'patriarchy', which is not what your doing here either. So still I ask what meaning?
@Christopholaes I'm not taking them the wrong way, I just find your example to be very, very odd, and am arguing against it, and not the person.
What I'm doing is exactly like explaining Christian to an Atheist, and I AM saying the definition comes from the wrong source. While it's a complex and complicated group, there is one basic thing they revolve around, and that's the inherent equality of the sexes, just as Christianity as we know it is centered around certain dogmas. (cont)
@stealthbadger While christianity is more organized in every single way, I still don't see how it's ridiculous to point out that the definition of "feminist" provided by those who want to mischaracterize what the feminist movement has been about since its inception is, itself ridiculous.
And seriously, I'm not taking this personally - I do very much disagree with your characterization, that's it. ^.^
@stealthbadger Also, I would say much of the time (Rush Limbaughs and the like aside) the people berating 'feminists' they mean the more radical groups, as an atheist would say 'christians' when he means fundamentalists. In can depend on the context of the conversation. I agree many mean ALL feminists, and this is a completely unfair characterisation.
Also dogmas, though spoken the same of the uncanny tendency to be interpreted wildly differently among sects of such groups. Becoming meaningless
@stealthbadger Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were, was a preemptive apology. So you didn't take that particular comment the wrong way. Which I guess you have taken the preemptive apology wrong so now d'oh.
Also I meant ridiculous in the sense that the analogy you gave as an example didn't have any relevance to the subject . I gave you an analogy that works and one that doesn't (yours).
ANd as my apt analogy suggest, pointless, the atheist would just reply 'Which source, there are thousands?"
@Christopholaes Which is why I gave the example of the Nicean Creed, the council which it is named after is one of the crucial turning points and points of agreement of the history of the Christian Church.
The history of the feminist movement is far better documented than the history of the feminist movement, and the history of the movement all the way back to the late 1800s supports the definition I laid out.
@stealthbadger Yet even as far back as then there were dissenters who would use the label, yet actually represent a distinct ideology. Groups always faction very quickly. 'The Nicene Creed' itself is recited in different forms depending on the denomination using it. Also even if granted as a central tenant of many 'christian' faiths, it is one that has been both reedited and reinterpreted many times, and evolved past it's origins. Much as the dogma or tenants of feminism, in some sects too far.
@stealthbadger I don't think the Nicene Creed is a good example, as in 381 in The Council of Constantinople they immediately changed the creed, introduced and subtracted ideological concepts, which then defined huge changes in the churches direction on things previously sanctioned as sacred. Hardly a definitive example of stable or lasting dogma/tenant? We see this in all organised groups based mainly on shared opinion, it evolves over time. Inevitably, as a goal is achieved another is created.
@Christopholaes If you're going to argue by analogy and then have someone turn it back on you, picking holes in the analogy that you made is just silly. :D
Also, given that the history of Feminism is about 150 years, and the history of Christianity is over 2000 (and again, with far better records being kept), I still say it's easier to talk about Feminism than it is Christianity. Yes, there are exceptions and it's complicated. It's a human thing, so that's going to be the case no matter what.
@stealthbadger unfiortunately feminism also has many of the same problems as christianity, which is why i gave it as an analogy. Such as having no central tenants any can truly agree on, no unified voice, no one definitive source. So as I pointed out the definition of christianity is meaningless in the face of this, much as feminism's definition is pointless in this situation.
As you pointed out we live in a world full of social animals called humans, who just don't stick to the definitions.
@stealthbadger BTW I don't think it's silly that the tenant you tried to use as an example of central tenants/dogmas in groups being stable was a false one?
Look, my disagreement in the end is probably just a small one. I just don't think quoting the definition will make any difference to the thinking of the people you are disagreeing with. You have to show them examples of what you mean by a 'feminist' in your stricter sense. Don't call them morons for repeating a popular misconception.
@stealthbadger You see, in the end I agree with your notion that 'feminism' as an ideology and a social movement has been both historically and presently misrepresented and maligned much.
Though I would point out some of this damage is also attributable to smaller groups within the larger spreading discordance.
I also understand and empathise with your motivations and anger on the subject of how feminists who are centred around equality can be treated.
@stealthbadger I don't care what Limbaugh says, i've never watched him. I'm not even american.
What i care about is the war of the sexes.
What i'm saying is that arguing over a definition is an exercise in futility, as it is compeletely irrelevant. If people judge a whole movement by the words of only one person, they're idiots, there's no use in giving wikipedia definitions. Argue ideas. Argue what the feminist activists are doing and saying (i'm only critiquing this video).
@Zebarbas It doesn't matter if you haven't watched him - the Limbaugh definition of feminism is actually far older than him, and is mostly from religions and corporate America.
And as I said to the other commenter, then it's perfectly fine to throw up our hands with creationists as to what the word "theory" means? And should we just sigh and roll our eyes when the House Republican Caucus tries to re-define "rape?" Definitions may be plastic, but they have consequences.
BTW I did not get my definition from Mr Limb whatever, I do not even know him. I would very much appreciate therefore for you to substantiate your claim that I arrived at my conclusion thanks to enlightenment of this person & why I am a moron?
@stealthbadger You stated any disagreeing with the dictionary definitions etc... I disagree with them as by the same dictionaries definition of the prefix of "fem" not to mention the definitions of said symbols used & actual actions carried out by said organisation & members of, is directly in conflict with the definition of feminism given one & the same dictionaries. Therefore in conclusion by your definition I am a moron :)
In addition to getting the mislabeling of feminism from sources like rush and limbaugh, it's not helped when (at least, in my experiances as a student) most people who 'out themselves' as feminist's are more in the vein of female supremecy, wishy washy tripe about 'female power' and it's suppression by new age male energies and the Rad Fem side of things. Partly because feminism has been so successful, people don't twig that their basic assumptions are very feminist.
@TheBoyFromNorfolk Actually I thought in SB's video he sounded like a pig ignorant, arrogant, bully assuming & labeling myself and any that do not accept his stance as morons & incapable of free impartial thinking etc. Indeed his use & context of the dictionary definition in isolation is highly questionable indeed a last resort in this particular instance, we are not dealing with a "word".
@TheBoyFromNorfolk I was not impressed with the quality of academic or general life knowledge of those commenting in support of this video.
I agree with you, I can categorically state at no time have I met one calling themselves a feminist who met the criteria of one that supported equality or indeed aspired to the here read definitions in the respective dictionaries.
@TheBoyFromNorfolk Indeed I would go as far as to say that being female what they reveal to me in conversation is far more prejudice that that which they would ever say or admit to in public or to a heterosexual male. Its the nature of the beast.
Your subtle as usual ;) As usual I am as subtle as a brick through a plate glass window ;)))
Feminism is a branch of satanism. They are pro abortion so they can get pregnant, kill their baby and get away with it. They hate Jesus and MJ because he was a man. They do all kind of wiccan ceremony to piss off God. In satanism it is a big thing to kill humans, preferably children to let the demons feast on their souls.
You are an advocat of feminism. I guess you are a satanist. No healthy thinking man would ever kill his own flesh. Abortion is genocide. And it should stop.
I think you're in the wrong here badger, you're making a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind being against the term feminism. There *are* female supremacists under that label, no they're not the majority. The kind of feminist you are thinking about should be referred to as "equal rights proponents" or humanists perhaps.
If you think that a masculinist is the same thing as a feminist then maybe I'd kinda agree with you. There's a difference between what they do and what the word means.
I am hearing a bit of this 'Marxism' tripe being tooted like it is a living entity that goes about doing things. Like this was from the exact same person who said that Islam is a religion & therefore cannot by definition 'do anything'.
It tends to amaze me that certain people will hyperbole topics when they desire & it suits them & then use the opposite logic when attacking something they do not.
I think the problem with feminism is women like NuclearNight, who almost rejects the idea of equality, and are more prone to see a female run world, instead of an equality run world.
@lilmarome I would say you would address it as its own particular subset of feminist thinking and point out despite its presence it dosent represent the whole of feminist philosophy.
I agree it's so obnoxious that they have twisted equal rights under the law and rights to your own body and medical decisions to crazy ass bitches wanting men to just be housewives .>.>
See I agree with your last sentence "ask who's putting out the message and what they want the world to be like and then tell me with a straight face they are objective", hell even I grin at that
But yeah, Marxist, misandry, anti-family, you better you bet!
You talk about patriarchy and that's code for sanctioned misandry, anti family is code for LGBT advocacy dogma but also against single parents and for gender rolls and to me that's different
In other words I'm willing to listen to ideas put forth, but not willing to accept Ideas pre judged and that especially includes social progressive nonsense
What the real kicker is for me is both sides with certain specialized language say almost exactly the same thing and thats just infuriating so much social capital is being wasted in beltway party Hi jinx while economic class stratification increases disenfranchising the democratic constituency of this democracy!
Yeah I almost meant 'you ' like a self describing statement but then I turned it around halfway through the sentence and said they, damn SB it's so frustrating sometimes
because I don't believe in race or gender supremacy or a sexual norm, I may feel that way but I doubt the objective merit of those 'sentiments' and yet as evolution is a adaptation to a environment not a pinnacle of perfection I wonder in our modern world the isn't a 'nominal' course in nature we don't see
In other words I see women as just people like anyone else, different races as someone with a different heritage and sexuality as ancient society realizing that acting like a bunch of bonobos might not be in the individuals or the collectives best interest.
I seriously need the hitchhikers guide to secularism 'but there just mice!....ohhhh'
I don't like the term feminist much due to some radical women feminists. I prefer the term humanist. The radical feminists put a lot of the feminists of the past to shame. I even hear some wiccans on youtube talk about the goddess and totally ignore the god. It seems some of them go to the other extreme rather than equal rights for both men and women.
@HaleyMary I hear you. And when people in all groups get caricatures of who and what the members of other groups are, it gets very.... interesting... trying to have a rational discussion about anything at all.
You come across as aggressively chivalrous, in defending feminism as a pure, only good movement. At the end, you look smug, like someones's going to give you a doggy biscuit or something. Feminism is good and bad - just like everything else. Some feminists are anti-family. Most are Marxists to some extent, because they see women or at least talk of women as an oppressed class. If we all just agreed with you that feminism is good, there would be no checks and balances (which is what's happened)
@tom181071 No, I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree with me, I'm not white-knighting, and I don't want a cookie. Quit putting attitudes into my head that you magic up from your imagination, that's just silly. :D
@stealthbadger Rather than badgering us with toadying generalizations - why not try contributing to the debate about the pros and cons of feminism in specific areas.
@theMJpower - I'm sure he is anatomically a real man - I don't go in for feminizing the enemy. Man-shaming with feminine epithets is a jingoistic tactic of war. Maybe he doesn't think real men stick up for men - instead condescendingly assuring us that hoary old victim-feminism is a cure-all when its track record suggests otherwise.
I was unclear in my first comment but I meant to say feminist backlash. The rather annoying comments and assertions that Badger is refering too. If you're talking about a backlash against the feminst movement itself than I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
This has been flagged as spam show
Defining a movement on the basis of a dictionary is just as idiotic as christian defining religious beliefs based on the bible. Give me a break. Actions speak louder than words and feminists actions don't match their mouths. They seek equality by ignoring half the population. Yeah that screams equality.
bluestars982 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
bluestars982 2 weeks ago
I don't know how I missed this video but it is excellent!
kelliko70 1 month ago
ok buddy, the definition can be whatever it wants. The actual movement however is different, why don't you actually research it, not just read some definition
wetoji 3 months ago 2
@wetoji Yeah, you should try researching.
Crillia 2 months ago
dude you dont know what feminism is then, feminism oppresses men extremely
chiefnavarro1 4 months ago 3
@chiefnavarro1 Did you have the volume on mute the whole time?
Crillia 2 months ago
You made my day :'D
onionpiepandarune 4 months ago
Great video.
inforest777 6 months ago
4 minutes and you said absolutely nothing.
Eugenepwnsyou1 6 months ago
You are the moron, sir. Look at a lot of the laws passed by women's groups in the UK, Canada, the US and Australia.
In your attempt to make this video to show that you are a voice of reason you have proved yourself otherwise. I'm a moderate, Independent politically and Science/facts guide me ideologically. I think you need to look at the propaganda, psuedo science and misinformation that these women's groups 'provide' that help them get sexist laws passed.
MotherNatureisBiased 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased Really? I didn't know that Parliaments, Congresses, or Assemblies were "women's groups."
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger Nice deflection. You know that I mean that women's groups lobby to have certain laws passed. Nice try.
MotherNatureisBiased 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased I could lead you down the primrose path and mock you with each way you're being inaccurate and imprecise, but I don't feel like it. You're ignoring the point of the video, which is that the sort of "feminist" group you're bitching about is a very small fraction of feminists as a whole. A small LOUD faction, but it's the extremists who get all the press.
stealthbadger 7 months ago
Comment removed
ffxivGraywolf79 7 months ago
@stealthbadger Absolutely pointless bringing that up. I think you should have a good look at the men's movements and especially the 'Father's Rights' movements around the world. They obviously would not exist if women's groups didn't lobby to get nonsense laws passed or if feminism really did want equality.
MotherNatureisBiased 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased Okay, first of all, you're a fucking egocentric douchebag in all the worst ways. Now that we have that out of the way, what the fuck is it with the worst of the MRA movement (meaning shitbags like you) who feel that absolutely everyone who does not fall into your line must not have any clue of "what is going on."
Well fuck you and the pint-size pretty pink pony you rode in on. I'm familiar w/ the movement, I'm familiar w/ the problems, and you're still stupid. (cont)
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger Bringing up what I did is part of actually solving a problem - if you want to find a solution, you find (as specifically as you can) the source of your butthurt and trauma, and then you deal with that. But no! You'd rather smear blame all over the place in an orgiastic cry of sexual and emotional frustration.
Guess what, pal: it's not going to help anything, period. If you want to talk about solutions, stick around. If you're just here to bitch, kindly go fuck yourself.
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger lol. Ad hominems attacks from a feminizai....how...unoriginal. It always resorts this because you're bigots. If you want to use shaming language and try to put me in the stereotypical box of being the sexually frustrated, emotionally frustrated, etc. Have at it. You just help prove my point. Using curse words and ad hominem attacks just show how immature you are. Thanks for this vid and your comments so I can screen shoot them and post them on my website.
Soushokukeidanshi 7 months ago
@stealthbadger Well, if that's how you feel about it, fine. You prove my point then, mangina. You're a proud feminist and I hear your roar. The vast majority of people oppose feminism if you haven't taken the time to look around. Women's groups and the stats/things they support will be severely scrutinized all thanks to it's ridiculous screeching. What's funny is that it's people like you that think they're the voice of reason but haven't realized you're quite the opposite.
Soushokukeidanshi 7 months ago
@Soushokukeidanshi :D
Considering you don't even appear to know what an ad hominem attack is, I'm not threatened. Here's a hint for you: an ad hominem is using an attack *as* an argument. I stated quite clearly why you're full of shit, and backed it up with things you've completely failed to address, because you don't want to solve problems - you just want to piss and moan.
Have fun, kid.
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger ad hominem-An argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case; a logical fallacy that involves a personal attack. Seriously, why do you even try.
MotherNatureisBiased 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased Which part of the segment about problem-solving didn't you get? :D
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased If I'd said "you didn't get my argument because you're a fucking pinheaded douchebag," that would be an ad hominem. "You didn't get my argument, you pinheaded douchebag" is a statement, with an insult on top, not an ad hominem.
Just clarifying for you. :D
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger Since you also doing the feminazi denial thing about the ad hominems you just made me realize that it is further pointless to argue with you because of the whole ego thing and wanting to be right even thought most people on this planet realize feminazism is not. Have a day.
MotherNatureisBiased 7 months ago
@stealthbadger Thanks for keep proving my point, feminazi. "Okay, first of all, you're a fucking egocentric douchebag in all the worst ways. Now that we have that out of the way, what the fuck is it with the worst of the MRA movement (meaning shitbags like you) who feel that absolutely everyone who does not fall into your line must not have any clue of "what is going on." is ad hominem. The very definition of ad hominem is to attack the person's character instead of answering the argument.
MotherNatureisBiased 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased No. Ad hominems would be "you don't understand what I'm talking about because you're an MRA douchebag." An insult would be "you don't understand what I'm talking about, you MRA douchebag." The word "because," which brings in an irrelevancy and attempts to use it as an argument (because ad hominem is a subset of the red herring fallacy) is the clear sign its an ad hominem. Now fuck off and go take a basic logic course, you moron. :D
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger You just proved that you really don't know anything. Just like a feminazi. Go read a book someday. Or rather for a simpleton, like yourself, go to merriam-websterDOTcom and search ad hominem. I made the mistake of thinking you had the intellect to even debate but you don't even know the words coming out of your own mouth. I'm done here.
MotherNatureisBiased 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased If what you say is true (setting aside the fact that m-w.com is not a dictionary of philosophy or logic, and that its definition is a crappy one), then you opened up with an ad hominem with your very first sentence on this post. Since you're wrong (I suggest the Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy - google it - or just Wikipedia if you're in a hurry), I think you'll find that even you calling me a mangina was only an insult (and a boring one at that).
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@MotherNatureisBiased I'm sure he gets this type of response quite a bit. He has trouble making a good point, even with a dictionary in hand, and probably feels stupid or dumb for not making a good point. So what does he do? He treats others the same, and resorts to name calling. It's a vicious cycle and goes no where. I'm starting to feel sorry for him.
yinyangbalance 6 months ago
Thank you, sir. SO much. Thank you. Thank you for joining me in trying to convey to these idiots this same fact, for I have made videos on it...and it's never enough for these sheeple.
SickMouth 7 months ago
That is NOT true. I was PRO-feminist once. I do NOT get my definitions from Rush Limbaugh (I am left wing, perhaps too much so). I am opposed to this movement now. because of my encounters with feminism and my personal experience with applied feminism in my family life, work, and sex life. Feminism absolutely is oppression of men and women. It unjustly seeks to redefine men and women for a higher purpose which goes beyond this topic. Feminist recruits are hardly aware of the damage they cause
yinyangbalance 7 months ago
@yinyangbalance Holy crap, calm down and take a breath.
You do realize you're talking about a very small subset of feminists, and that there is no overarching feminist mafia imposing a dogma from above, which your assertions would require? I mean wow....
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger Truly, I don't even think of them as feminists, and think they've ruined the label (if I'm guessing right, you're talking about the political correctness/identity politics brigade, which I'm pissed off at for my own reasons).
stealthbadger 7 months ago
@stealthbadger This is not a subset of anything but a greater movement fully funded by an oppressive government. The feminism I talk about is no more a subset of a group than a member of a cult is to it's cult. Realize the chocolate frosting with sprinkles on top feminism that you define is no different than the Civil rights movement. The feminism that brainwashes young girls into reading excerpts from Vagina Monologues is not a subset my friend, and thats just the tip of the iceberg.
yinyangbalance 6 months ago
@yinyangbalance You could have saved a lot of time by weeding out the rhetoric and just saying "you're wrong because I say so."
The "shorter" version manages to preserve the factual and logical points of your argument, too.
stealthbadger 6 months ago
@stealthbadger Wow, classic strawman. I never said that. I said that your idea of feminism as a movement is non-existent, because that definition belongs to the Civil Rights movement, and would not distinguish itself to a sex if it really was what it says it was. I'm saying that Feminism is a wolf in sheeps clothing, it is a form of oppression against men and women. It is hateful towards both sexes. I have seen it, I have experienced it, and I am now fighting it.
yinyangbalance 6 months ago
@yinyangbalance Wow, does it take effort to be that stupid? It's not a strawman, because I never claimed you said that. I claimed that was logically equivalent to what you said - which is true, because even saying that you're arguing by anecdote would be generous.
stealthbadger 6 months ago
@stealthbadger You claim to be logical, then show your logic. Where does that equate? And I dont use words like "stupid" to label you in my argument, but you do. I can stoop down to your level just as easy. You are diverting from the point, and it is no wonder why. Its becoming very clear you have no argument, only a sprinkle-n-cream definition of feminism from a dictionary, and words like "idiot" and "stupid" as desperate plan-B route if the first one fails.
yinyangbalance 6 months ago
@yinyangbalance Nah. I just got bored and started ignoring you. When people are reaching for Dworkin and Solanis, but ignore Wolf, Klein, Augustin, and even Valenti, I know they're just cherry-picking the worst of the worst and enjoying having their blinders on. Seems like you and 31yo have been getting along well, so I decided to let you be. :D
stealthbadger 6 months ago
I can't post links here. Go to my channel for links to websites facts and more information.
Ausercalled 7 months ago
40% of males kill themselves every year why do you think that is? Most of the time it's girlfriend or wife related. That's enough to make you want to give up on women altogether.
Ausercalled 7 months ago
@Ausercalled Wait wait wait.
You need to go find a doctor, because pulling that bullshit statistic out of your ass must have done some serious damage.
theinnerbadger 7 months ago
@theinnerbadger Dude you can't deny the fact that most divorces are initiated by women. Depression is a big problem amonst males. Just look at any modren girlband/singer what kinds of songs do they sing? OPEN YOUR EYES.
Ausercalled 7 months ago
@Ausercalled Sure I can. First, define "initiated."
BTW, almost invariably when someone says "OPEN YOUR EYES" they mean "PLEASE DON'T FACT-CHECK MY BULLSHIT."
stealthbadger 7 months ago
Thanks for this-- A lot of people need the clarification.
MsFlattire 8 months ago
I support the real gender-equality feminists and oppose the fringe of sexist against men types calling themselves feminists as a shield to protect their bigotry. The former outnumber the latter.
Though basically those sexist bigots like NuclearNight aren't actually feminists at all. Nor is the FOX portrayal accurate (as usual).
I suppose I am a feminist based on the definition, but on the other hand I prefer "gender equality advocate" as it is harder to smear/mudsling than "feminist" is.
ristinraccoon 8 months ago
so does this
nactan 8 months ago
@nactan reference your pronouns, please.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
SUBBED! <3
This feminist thanks you very much :)
QueenTox 8 months ago
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
StrictSnow 8 months ago
@StrictSnow Yawn.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
Thank you so much for posting this. You've gained a subscriber in me, for what it's worth. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to actually see a man upset about this.
RottenRemnants 8 months ago
I'm german (never listen to anything from Fox) and male and I defend feminism but I have to admit that the word "Feminism" is very misleading. It sounds like a movement exclusively made to help women. While they have a lot more problems in our society than men, it's not like men don't have any gender-specific problems at all. That's why I'm in favor of changing the name to something more fitting (equalism or whatever) and use the word feminism for those who exclusively fight for women.
CyborgX7 8 months ago
I'm German, never listen to Limbough or Fox News, they are unkown in Germany. My definition for feminism is: "disapproval of masculinity". Not of men, mind you, but masculinity. Feminists usually also dislike masculine women. I know the wikipedia definition. If I give into it I've already lost, haven't I?
john42t 8 months ago
@john42t Not as much as if you choose to hold to your viewpoint despite evidence to the contrary.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger I agree. And of course that goes for the both of us.
john42t 8 months ago
@john42t I really want to see the look on your face the first time you meet a bull-dyke Feminist.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Had to look that up and couldn't figure enough about it. Then again, it wouldn't really make any difference. I'm fully aware that the group of people who call themselves feminist are united by no other property than the mere label 'feminist'. The 'disaproval of masculinity' definition is an attempt to describe the most dominant trait of the group, even though not all members will not fit. Look, I really adore strong women. Most of the people I look up to are women. [...]
john42t 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Hirsi Ali is my greatest hero. She thinks she's a feminist, yet she can't really relate to other feminists. She doesn't understand why, I do. Feminism is largely like unions: They talk about injustice but really they are a pressure groups lobbying for as much power as they can. Hirsi Ali wants justice, that's why she's not compatible. I also realize that most feminists actuall are men, like you.
john42t 8 months ago
@john42t 1. You're wrong regarding "disapproval of masculinity," and I have no idea where the hell you got that.
Also, that's pretty damn insulting, basically saying in one breath that I'm not like the "bad" people and I'm effectively deluded "identifying" with them - as if the origin of the term, and my informed decision on what I choose to call myself was nothing compared to your beliefs without anything other than anecdotal evidence.
Have a nice evening.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger You misunderstood. I meant that you are right to call yourself a feminist. You are not deluded in identifying with them. It's not like that you are not one of the bad people. You are.
john42t 8 months ago
@john42t I think I understand what you mean. Apologies, I'm tired. ._.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger I just made a video ("Women rule the world") in which I spell out what I mean more clearly.
john42t 7 months ago
@john42t So... I'm trying to be polite here, apologies if I come off a little testy. In the first 15 seconds you're saying that we should ignore the dictionaries, which we use for every single other word in our languages, and use your definition of feminism, and then go from there?
No. That's intellectually dishonest, especially since you use your definition to apply your assertions about what feminism is to people who don't fit the characteristics you ascribe to them.
stealthbadger 7 months ago
Here are some popular feminist quotes.
"All sex even consentual sex between a married couple is an act of violence perpeturated against a woman" Catherine Mackinnion
"All men are rapests that's all they are" Marrilyn French "The Aurtor of the womens room"
Hetrosexual intercourse is the pure formalised expression of contempt for womens bodies Andrea Dworkin
Romance is rape embellished with meaningful looks Andrea Dworkin.
Ausercalled 8 months ago
@Ausercalled If by "popular" you mean "from the most radical and controversial within the movement," maybe. I think you're just cherry-picking.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
Reaching people with a bias or a intellectual lazy streak is at the heart of this topic...and I still don't have a good answer other than peer pressure and "good" indoctrination (like critical thinking and research)
Niveous23 8 months ago
It's more likely these "morons" are being satirical towards the "fem-natzi's" Those groups who DO vocalize female superiority.
That being said, a clear distinction needs to be made between 1) feminism 2) fem- natzi and of course 3) media garbage (faux news)
To do that, you would need to argue people take time to read a topic, and use full sentences. The people that would sit through a 4 minute vid on being educated usually don't need it as much as it's a habit. lol
Niveous23 8 months ago
@Niveous23 In the comments here someone wrote that they were now proud to be able to say that they were a feminist, as by the definition given it fit with their humanism. So seeing feminism is polluted with the androgynist losers everyone seems to hate, why not the decent feminists shun feminism in favour of humanism? Everyone who shares dreams of equality for all can then share one banner leaving the monsters of feminism on their own.
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler Wow, you sure get your undies in a bunch over this one word, don't you?
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger So do you! You think that its fine that it describes two different types of people with different agendas. When there is a perfectly good word that describes one of those groups better and groups them with like minded people. I think my use of feminist is better than yours. Like I said before any feminist can earn respect by showing they are not supremacists. I don't have blinkered thinking, like I think you do. You only care about the dictionary definition. cont..
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler The fact is the definition is written to the lofty goals of feminism, not to the reality. RL is more like the internet than you realise. The image feminists have is the ugly face of androgyny. Just like theism has the ugly face of misogyny. Not all theists are misogynists but it sticks in our minds because they are so vocal, and pushy. Try living in the real world and not the dictionary.
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler I do live in the real world - and there is far less uniformity to it than you realize.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@adolthitler You're not providing evidence or assertions other than your own bias - and at this point I'm just laughing at you, so carry on. :D
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger You have always been laughing, and not paying attention. You think I have not met women? Women who are androgynist and claim to be feminist? I have also met women who claim to be feminist, and are equalist like myself. You are an androgynist. Women = good, men = bad. Any who believe in equality are not androgynist enough to be good. I call that based on your insistance that no one criticise feminism or feminists for androgynism.
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler LOL Now you're making up stuff and attributing it to me.
I'm seriously wondering if you're just trolling, but either way, you are funny. ^.^
theinnerbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger On the topic of bias, how is it that radical feminists get protection from you because the definition of feminism is noble? And is that your bias showing? You are a great rock thrower for someone in a glass house.
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler Considering how often I mock NuclearNight/iremythpurr and other radicals, now you're making stuff up that I can *demonstrably* disprove. :D
Nice.
theinnerbadger 8 months ago
@adolthitler And yes, theinnerbadger is my other account. :D
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger I guessed already. Well then why do you oppose people not viewing feminism in a positive light based on their life experience of feminism? Why do you insist, we accept all feminism has to offer based purely on a dictionary definition? I don't understand the logic. Please explain how the dictionary beats real life.
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler Say you're a Liberal (just go with me for the purposes of this example - any political identification would do). If someone calling himself a "Liberal" (for example) decides to go around and beat the shit out of people, and says it's in the name of Liberals, and then Conservatives start spreading the line that all Liberals stand for is going and beating the shit out of people, wouldn't you be upset?
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Say for the sake of argument I don't say all feminists are men haters. Say for the sake of argument I say, they should abandon feminism, for equalism. Say I am an atheist and some atheist in america vandalised a church, and some other atheists are raising money to clean up the vandalism. Say I say atheist vandals bad, and atheist fundraisers good, say I say men hating feminists are bad and equalist feminists good. Say I say that due to the fact that I meet way more bad feminists..
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler I just automatically expect stupidity from a feminist, till they show otherwise. Same as I expect a muslim to be a total douche till shown otherwise. I also expect a christian to be an utter loon living in denial till I see otherwise. its my life experience teaching me something about the group. The individual has to earn more respect than the group has demolished.
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler The plural of anecdote is not data, and expecting other people to expect definitions based on your personal prejudices (literal pre-judging, read what you typed) is silly. Have a nice weekend, I'm done with you.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger It does not matter that you object to prejudging. We all do it, and its reasonable. I don't rant and rave at feminists, like most do at me for the crime of being a man. The fact that you refuse reality, for the dictionary in order to support the jerks, shows you have prejudged this issue also. I too am done. You don't have my respect, as I am sure I don't have yours.
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler i don't see how being androgynous makes someone a "loser". Both male and female cultures have a lot to offer in moderation. I'm all for stealing any useful idea for myself. :-) They should wave the banner of humanism, I can agree with that. The problem is not EVERYONE wants equality, some want to dominate. And for the sake of brevity, specific issues are addressed that have an underlying banner like equality (civil rights, gay rights, feminism) Is this good? idk.
Niveous23 8 months ago
@Niveous23 Hey thats all I was saying, that equality should be the goal. Feminism has a majority of its members violently wedded to the idea of flipping the power structure. Not equalisation. I also find it offensive that people want to fight for the equality of a small segment of humanity. If any one is oppressed how have we achieved equality? Yes its good to fight for the rights of an oppressed group and its a step in the right direction. I argue for women, and against feminists.
adolthitler 8 months ago
This is so cool! It sounds so simple, but I've never thought to look up the definition of feminist before. I can be proud to call myself feminist now; it fits nicely with my humanism. <3
ReligiousFiction 8 months ago
@ReligiousFiction Facepalm!
Ausercalled 8 months ago
they are fighting for womens rights,but NOT equality.
when was the last time you have seen a feminist propaganda to eliminate alimony?
i have had debates with feminists that get mad because of showing sexy women in commercials,but honestly...if that is that last thing they have to fight over,don't you think that means that we already live in an equal society?
i believe in equality between sexes and genres,that's why i hate feminism which is the most sexist movement of them all.
FractalMachine 8 months ago
@FractalMachine You are creating a self selecting sample - and effectively declaring that the people who are fighting for equal rights are not feminists.
If you're going to redefine words in the midst of your argument, then you weren't listening to begin with.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger
listen...it has nothing to do with definitions,and everything to do with reality.
ideally feminism decades ago was meant to achieve equality for women,nowadays,they're not.
i don't give 2 shits what a dictionary says...i care what feminists do and say.
name one thing,that the modern feminist movement did,to advance the rights of men.
there might be something,but i never heard of anything of the sort.
if you believe what you say,it should be an easy task right?
alatheir 8 months ago
@alatheir
oops...used the wrong username.
FractalMachine 8 months ago
@alatheir Since it involves communication and perception, it has everything to do with definitions - and you are not listening to the other feminists in the thread, only to the ones that fit your conceptions of what a feminist is.
This is an excellent example of why it's not an easy task.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger That is of course true. And if you communicate with them you should be polite and respect their definition during that argument. You should not, however, continue to use that definition just because a guy on YouTube told you he's smarter than you. So in the end, I'll find a definition that seems to fit most of the people who call themselves that. "those who promote equal rights for both genders" doesn't even come close. It's almost the opposite of it.
john42t 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Aren't you selecting your sample, by ignoring the androgynist feminists in favour of the humanist feminists?
adolthitler 8 months ago
@adolthitler Just saw this. I have no idea what the hell you mean.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
i disagree,
the terms and meaning of the word feminism,have nothing to do with anything.
the only thing im judging is the attitude of feminists which is come across,and yes! they are all about female supremacy.
they say that porn should be abolished,because it objectifies women,or in other words women do NOT have the right to participate in pornos. (cont...)
FractalMachine 8 months ago
Thanks Badger, I have come up against a lot of people with some very strange ideas about feminism... as my uni Feminist Society hoodie says "Haters gon' hate" but I do get tired of having to give people the correct definition when I tell them I'm a feminist!
GodwinsLaw1 8 months ago
I must confess that I am no feminist as I believe that there r legitimate criticisms that can b raised against feminism both as a movement and a body of thought which show that is neither benevolent or that many of its assertions about the society r correct. However I agree that there is a great deal of ignorance about what feminism actually is which has partly been spread by anti-feminists disseminating disinformation in society...[cont]....
AdamaKnowsBest 8 months ago
@AdamaKnowsBest [cont]...This has had the unfortunate affects of stifling useful discussion about feminism and its goals as well as leading 2 certain good deeds of feminists being devalued 2 a certain extent. Furthermore I would argue that the ignorance about feminism has helped 2 ensure that many of the criticisms espoused by critics of feminism r either wrong or illogical. Yet this is not 2 say that the critics of feminism don’t have valid arguments as they do.
Anyways good video
AdamaKnowsBest 8 months ago
Sometimes feels like you're in charge of the 'special' class, eh Badger? ;)
HeavyTrafficAhead 8 months ago
@HeavyTrafficAhead LOL OMFG, your timing is excellent, sir! :D
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger I was wondering what you were talking about and then I started going through the comment section. *facepalm*
HeavyTrafficAhead 8 months ago
So, white pride is fine and dandy. I mean, it's just being pride of being white. What's wrong with that?
Seriously, this is a bit silly. I'm not saying that critics of feminism don't exhagerate. They do. But definitions mean shit to me.
Defending feminism with it's definition is like killing some one with a hammer, and then claiming you're innocent because a hammer is a carpentering tool, not a deadly weapon .
Zebarbas 8 months ago
@Zebarbas You're missing the part where I'm trying to point out that the people who study feminist theory and most feminist activists are not doing what Limbaugh, et al claim they are.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Unfortunately though, a lot of those identifying themselves as feminists are not following that definition either. I fail to see how reciting the definition of a somewhat 'pure' form of any ideological/political movement has any meaning. In so far as what we see in actuality is a vast plethora of ideologies, all using the same label. Yet essentially different. Much like the 'christian' label has many adherents, yet few maxims many could generally accept. I see the same in feminism
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@Christopholaes Okay, then arguing with creationists over the definition of the word "theory" is meaningless?
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger No, yet, it's not the same thing is it.
What your doing is more analogous to explaining the meaning of 'christian' to an atheist, then telling them - see your previous definition is just from the wrong source. As you direct your definition towards anti-feminists or MRAs for eg.
Your analogy here is actually quite ridiculous, this amounts to arguing with a radical feminist about 'masculinity' or 'patriarchy', which is not what your doing here either. So still I ask what meaning?
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@Christopholaes BTW I don't mean to be harsh. I just disagree on this, a little. Well the way you put it anyway.
I do usually enjoy your videos, i don't have to agree with all you say to appreciate your opinion.
I usually find it a reasonably level headed one. So please, don't take my comments the wrong way.
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@Christopholaes I'm not taking them the wrong way, I just find your example to be very, very odd, and am arguing against it, and not the person.
What I'm doing is exactly like explaining Christian to an Atheist, and I AM saying the definition comes from the wrong source. While it's a complex and complicated group, there is one basic thing they revolve around, and that's the inherent equality of the sexes, just as Christianity as we know it is centered around certain dogmas. (cont)
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger While christianity is more organized in every single way, I still don't see how it's ridiculous to point out that the definition of "feminist" provided by those who want to mischaracterize what the feminist movement has been about since its inception is, itself ridiculous.
And seriously, I'm not taking this personally - I do very much disagree with your characterization, that's it. ^.^
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Also, I would say much of the time (Rush Limbaughs and the like aside) the people berating 'feminists' they mean the more radical groups, as an atheist would say 'christians' when he means fundamentalists. In can depend on the context of the conversation. I agree many mean ALL feminists, and this is a completely unfair characterisation.
Also dogmas, though spoken the same of the uncanny tendency to be interpreted wildly differently among sects of such groups. Becoming meaningless
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were, was a preemptive apology. So you didn't take that particular comment the wrong way. Which I guess you have taken the preemptive apology wrong so now d'oh.
Also I meant ridiculous in the sense that the analogy you gave as an example didn't have any relevance to the subject . I gave you an analogy that works and one that doesn't (yours).
ANd as my apt analogy suggest, pointless, the atheist would just reply 'Which source, there are thousands?"
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@Christopholaes Which is why I gave the example of the Nicean Creed, the council which it is named after is one of the crucial turning points and points of agreement of the history of the Christian Church.
The history of the feminist movement is far better documented than the history of the feminist movement, and the history of the movement all the way back to the late 1800s supports the definition I laid out.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Yet even as far back as then there were dissenters who would use the label, yet actually represent a distinct ideology. Groups always faction very quickly. 'The Nicene Creed' itself is recited in different forms depending on the denomination using it. Also even if granted as a central tenant of many 'christian' faiths, it is one that has been both reedited and reinterpreted many times, and evolved past it's origins. Much as the dogma or tenants of feminism, in some sects too far.
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@stealthbadger I don't think the Nicene Creed is a good example, as in 381 in The Council of Constantinople they immediately changed the creed, introduced and subtracted ideological concepts, which then defined huge changes in the churches direction on things previously sanctioned as sacred. Hardly a definitive example of stable or lasting dogma/tenant? We see this in all organised groups based mainly on shared opinion, it evolves over time. Inevitably, as a goal is achieved another is created.
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@Christopholaes If you're going to argue by analogy and then have someone turn it back on you, picking holes in the analogy that you made is just silly. :D
Also, given that the history of Feminism is about 150 years, and the history of Christianity is over 2000 (and again, with far better records being kept), I still say it's easier to talk about Feminism than it is Christianity. Yes, there are exceptions and it's complicated. It's a human thing, so that's going to be the case no matter what.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger unfiortunately feminism also has many of the same problems as christianity, which is why i gave it as an analogy. Such as having no central tenants any can truly agree on, no unified voice, no one definitive source. So as I pointed out the definition of christianity is meaningless in the face of this, much as feminism's definition is pointless in this situation.
As you pointed out we live in a world full of social animals called humans, who just don't stick to the definitions.
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@stealthbadger BTW I don't think it's silly that the tenant you tried to use as an example of central tenants/dogmas in groups being stable was a false one?
Look, my disagreement in the end is probably just a small one. I just don't think quoting the definition will make any difference to the thinking of the people you are disagreeing with. You have to show them examples of what you mean by a 'feminist' in your stricter sense. Don't call them morons for repeating a popular misconception.
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@stealthbadger You see, in the end I agree with your notion that 'feminism' as an ideology and a social movement has been both historically and presently misrepresented and maligned much.
Though I would point out some of this damage is also attributable to smaller groups within the larger spreading discordance.
I also understand and empathise with your motivations and anger on the subject of how feminists who are centred around equality can be treated.
I just think your tactic lacks merit...
Christopholaes 8 months ago
@Christopholaes Maybe my "tactic" is to express the frustration I and many others feel at this, because no tactic we're using is being listened to?
Try reading some of the feminist commenters in this thread.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger I don't care what Limbaugh says, i've never watched him. I'm not even american.
What i care about is the war of the sexes.
What i'm saying is that arguing over a definition is an exercise in futility, as it is compeletely irrelevant. If people judge a whole movement by the words of only one person, they're idiots, there's no use in giving wikipedia definitions. Argue ideas. Argue what the feminist activists are doing and saying (i'm only critiquing this video).
Zebarbas 8 months ago
@Zebarbas It doesn't matter if you haven't watched him - the Limbaugh definition of feminism is actually far older than him, and is mostly from religions and corporate America.
And as I said to the other commenter, then it's perfectly fine to throw up our hands with creationists as to what the word "theory" means? And should we just sigh and roll our eyes when the House Republican Caucus tries to re-define "rape?" Definitions may be plastic, but they have consequences.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
BTW I did not get my definition from Mr Limb whatever, I do not even know him. I would very much appreciate therefore for you to substantiate your claim that I arrived at my conclusion thanks to enlightenment of this person & why I am a moron?
Kinkspace 8 months ago
@Kinkspace Who is Mr. Limb, where did I say anything about the enlightenment of any person, and who the hell said you were a moron???
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger You stated any disagreeing with the dictionary definitions etc... I disagree with them as by the same dictionaries definition of the prefix of "fem" not to mention the definitions of said symbols used & actual actions carried out by said organisation & members of, is directly in conflict with the definition of feminism given one & the same dictionaries. Therefore in conclusion by your definition I am a moron :)
Kinkspace 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Oh and told what to think by Mr whatever his name is :P
Kinkspace 8 months ago
@Kinkspace Ah, NM. I understand now. Well, if you're going to distort what I said and then ask me to justify it, I see no reason to answer.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Your statement was crystal clear :)
Kinkspace 8 months ago
@Kinkspace I love the passive aggressive smiley <3
And sure it was clear, if you included the bit after where I said "or!" :D
stealthbadger 8 months ago
Brilliant Video.
In addition to getting the mislabeling of feminism from sources like rush and limbaugh, it's not helped when (at least, in my experiances as a student) most people who 'out themselves' as feminist's are more in the vein of female supremecy, wishy washy tripe about 'female power' and it's suppression by new age male energies and the Rad Fem side of things. Partly because feminism has been so successful, people don't twig that their basic assumptions are very feminist.
TheBoyFromNorfolk 8 months ago
@TheBoyFromNorfolk Actually I thought in SB's video he sounded like a pig ignorant, arrogant, bully assuming & labeling myself and any that do not accept his stance as morons & incapable of free impartial thinking etc. Indeed his use & context of the dictionary definition in isolation is highly questionable indeed a last resort in this particular instance, we are not dealing with a "word".
cont...
Kinkspace 8 months ago
@TheBoyFromNorfolk I was not impressed with the quality of academic or general life knowledge of those commenting in support of this video.
I agree with you, I can categorically state at no time have I met one calling themselves a feminist who met the criteria of one that supported equality or indeed aspired to the here read definitions in the respective dictionaries.
cont...
Kinkspace 8 months ago
@TheBoyFromNorfolk Indeed I would go as far as to say that being female what they reveal to me in conversation is far more prejudice that that which they would ever say or admit to in public or to a heterosexual male. Its the nature of the beast.
Your subtle as usual ;) As usual I am as subtle as a brick through a plate glass window ;)))
Kinkspace 8 months ago
Feminism is a branch of satanism. They are pro abortion so they can get pregnant, kill their baby and get away with it. They hate Jesus and MJ because he was a man. They do all kind of wiccan ceremony to piss off God. In satanism it is a big thing to kill humans, preferably children to let the demons feast on their souls.
You are an advocat of feminism. I guess you are a satanist. No healthy thinking man would ever kill his own flesh. Abortion is genocide. And it should stop.
theMJpower 8 months ago
I think you're in the wrong here badger, you're making a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind being against the term feminism. There *are* female supremacists under that label, no they're not the majority. The kind of feminist you are thinking about should be referred to as "equal rights proponents" or humanists perhaps.
If you think that a masculinist is the same thing as a feminist then maybe I'd kinda agree with you. There's a difference between what they do and what the word means.
Philosification 8 months ago
Nail on the noggen!
I am hearing a bit of this 'Marxism' tripe being tooted like it is a living entity that goes about doing things. Like this was from the exact same person who said that Islam is a religion & therefore cannot by definition 'do anything'.
It tends to amaze me that certain people will hyperbole topics when they desire & it suits them & then use the opposite logic when attacking something they do not.
MilitantPeaceist 8 months ago
I think the problem with feminism is women like NuclearNight, who almost rejects the idea of equality, and are more prone to see a female run world, instead of an equality run world.
atomicnumber86 8 months ago
@atomicnumber86 NN to feminism is like Freddy Krueger to child care!!!
MilitantPeaceist 8 months ago
This is pretty much how I always defined feminism.
But if there is a "branch of feminism" that is based on Marxism is it still feminism according to this definition?
lilmarome 8 months ago
@lilmarome I would say you would address it as its own particular subset of feminist thinking and point out despite its presence it dosent represent the whole of feminist philosophy.
Razorgeist 8 months ago
I agree it's so obnoxious that they have twisted equal rights under the law and rights to your own body and medical decisions to crazy ass bitches wanting men to just be housewives .>.>
MistressArte 8 months ago
See I agree with your last sentence "ask who's putting out the message and what they want the world to be like and then tell me with a straight face they are objective", hell even I grin at that
But yeah, Marxist, misandry, anti-family, you better you bet!
You talk about patriarchy and that's code for sanctioned misandry, anti family is code for LGBT advocacy dogma but also against single parents and for gender rolls and to me that's different
Marxism is not just economic, but cultural
Curas1 8 months ago
@Curas1
In other words I'm willing to listen to ideas put forth, but not willing to accept Ideas pre judged and that especially includes social progressive nonsense
What the real kicker is for me is both sides with certain specialized language say almost exactly the same thing and thats just infuriating so much social capital is being wasted in beltway party Hi jinx while economic class stratification increases disenfranchising the democratic constituency of this democracy!
Damn that!
Curas1 8 months ago
@Curas1
eh, guess I better run over and help nellie now ...
Curas1 8 months ago
@Curas1 I did not say one word about patriarchy. >.<
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger
Yeah I almost meant 'you ' like a self describing statement but then I turned it around halfway through the sentence and said they, damn SB it's so frustrating sometimes
because I don't believe in race or gender supremacy or a sexual norm, I may feel that way but I doubt the objective merit of those 'sentiments' and yet as evolution is a adaptation to a environment not a pinnacle of perfection I wonder in our modern world the isn't a 'nominal' course in nature we don't see
Curas1 8 months ago
@Curas1
In other words I see women as just people like anyone else, different races as someone with a different heritage and sexuality as ancient society realizing that acting like a bunch of bonobos might not be in the individuals or the collectives best interest.
I seriously need the hitchhikers guide to secularism 'but there just mice!....ohhhh'
Curas1 8 months ago
I don't like the term feminist much due to some radical women feminists. I prefer the term humanist. The radical feminists put a lot of the feminists of the past to shame. I even hear some wiccans on youtube talk about the goddess and totally ignore the god. It seems some of them go to the other extreme rather than equal rights for both men and women.
HaleyMary 8 months ago
@HaleyMary I hear you. And when people in all groups get caricatures of who and what the members of other groups are, it gets very.... interesting... trying to have a rational discussion about anything at all.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
You come across as aggressively chivalrous, in defending feminism as a pure, only good movement. At the end, you look smug, like someones's going to give you a doggy biscuit or something. Feminism is good and bad - just like everything else. Some feminists are anti-family. Most are Marxists to some extent, because they see women or at least talk of women as an oppressed class. If we all just agreed with you that feminism is good, there would be no checks and balances (which is what's happened)
tom181071 8 months ago 5
@tom181071 No, I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree with me, I'm not white-knighting, and I don't want a cookie. Quit putting attitudes into my head that you magic up from your imagination, that's just silly. :D
Briefly, I mean exactly what I said.
stealthbadger 8 months ago
@stealthbadger Rather than badgering us with toadying generalizations - why not try contributing to the debate about the pros and cons of feminism in specific areas.
tom181071 8 months ago
@tom181071 Maybe he has a vagina.
theMJpower 8 months ago
@theMJpower - I'm sure he is anatomically a real man - I don't go in for feminizing the enemy. Man-shaming with feminine epithets is a jingoistic tactic of war. Maybe he doesn't think real men stick up for men - instead condescendingly assuring us that hoary old victim-feminism is a cure-all when its track record suggests otherwise.
tom181071 8 months ago
@tom181071 I picture feminists as women who are either lesbian or raped in their childhood.
theMJpower 8 months ago
Great video your digust for the antifeminist backlash surpasses even my own.
Razorgeist 8 months ago
@Razorgeist Anti-Feminist backlash is natural, and there should be more of it.
leostomicek 8 months ago
@leostomicek
I was unclear in my first comment but I meant to say feminist backlash. The rather annoying comments and assertions that Badger is refering too. If you're talking about a backlash against the feminst movement itself than I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
Razorgeist 8 months ago
@Razorgeist I think you made yourself sufficiently clear in your first comment. ;-)
leostomicek 8 months ago