Whether he is of Jewish faith or not, appears to be far less relevant to him than are his guiding Moral Values and Ethical Principles.
A true 'Rebel' is one who challenges Injustice, regardless. His profound sense of Humanity was undoubtedly nurtured early in life by his mother and what she came away with from her own persecution under the Nazis
@fenersevedien YES Food, Medicine, Wheel chairs, Concrete ETC.
You know what else was on the boat?? JEWS and even a HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR. (Hedy Epstein)
Is that enough to answer your "question"..
So answer mine do you BELIEVE that a ship checked + approved by the UN/NATO with a HOLOCAUST survivor on board would bring weapons etc. to Israel? Are you THIS fucking ignorant .. even ISRAEL said there where medicine etc. on board, they feared Hamas would build bunkers with the concrete!
The report is considered deeply flawed and outrageous. The fact is Israeli pirates occupied and killed innocents Turks and Americans in international waters to deprive Palestinians of humanitarian goods. This in violation of all international law with respect to international water boundaries.
@yaron3534 Sending close to $10 billion a year to Israel in a recession is not in the US' interest.
Putting loyalty to a foreign nation ahead of loyalty to the interests of the US is not a legitimate debate. The Gaza concentration camp is not in the US' interest. Israel executing Americans is not in the US' interest. Sending close to $10 billion a year to Israel in a recession is not in the US' interest.
@yaron3534 "One more israeli puppet overthrown, step closer to Palestinian freedom."
Israel's status as a member state of the United Nations means that it is bound under Article 25 of the United Nations Charter to "agree, accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council".
Security Council resolutions adopted in the exercise of its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace in accordance with the UN Charter are binding upon the member states
"Calls on member states to support international efforts to alleviate the humanitarian and economic situation in Gaza, including through urgently needed additional contributions to UNRWA and through the Ad-hoc Liaison Committee. (UNRWA is the agency responsible for assisting Palestinian refugees)
@yaron3534 sweetie While Israel claims it is the Palestinians who refuse the oppertunity for peace, it is Israel who continues to take more land, by force of arms, as more time goes by.
sweetie Israel has continued to this day in confiscating further Palestinian territory with what Israel terms as "settlements" which are also in defiance of the Forth Geneva Conventions.
@yaron3534 sweetie As a result of the 1967 war, Israel subsequently occupied lands through force of arms which is also in defiance of the Geneva Conventions that Israel will not recognize here.
@yaron3534 sweetie Israel did not allow the Palestinians right of return after the 1947 & 48 wars which is contrary to law as stated in the Forth Geneva Convention and although a signator, Israel now disputes and refuses to recognize that law.
What does this have to do with the Palmer report? Just keep tossing about quotes when and where you think it is convenient. You should know the issues.
Focus on the article rather than your check list of cliches. The key issues are an attack in international waters, illegal occupation of territories acquired during war which is a crime and the 1967 borders. This is all you have to focus on or is it too much for you?
May 8, '54 "Israel is an artificial state which must disappear" "There is no sense in talking peace with Israel. There isn’t even the smallest place for negotiations between the Arabs and Israel"
Following his nationalization of the Suez Canal on July 26, 1956, Nasser, Egypt’s president, delivers ever more vehement speeches against Israel, threatening its annihilation
(Gilbert, Martin. Israel: A History, New York; William Morrow)
Naser (Egypt's president) in a letter to Jordan's king Hussein- 1961: “Our army has been reinforced in a manner that gratifies every Arab. If Your Majesty will recall that the Defence budget comes to a figure of 120m. Egyptian pounds, the magnitude of the sacrifice the people make will reveal itself in all its great dimensions before Your eyes, as will its uncompromising decision to accept responsibility against the common enemy of the entire Arab nation – Israel.”
13 Oct '60, Radio Cairo “Referring to Palestine in his address to the UN , Nasser outlines 2 levels in the campaign. 1st is the armed armistice, which Arabs will, in their own good time, turn into a battle-field – a battle of vengeance & blood, the battle of Palestine
“We do not deny that we want war. We want war; this is our right. The return of Palestine is impossible without war”
August 17, '61 “The Arab people will never allow Israel to exist in Palestine.”
18 May 1962, President Nasser of Egypt “I do not know of such things as semi-military operations. There may be war, but not semi-war…When the time comes for us to fight a war, it will be a comprehensive war…When I start a war, I want to take it to the only end I accept – which is decisive victory."
22 Feb '64, President Nasser of Egypt “The possibilities of the future will be war with Israel. It is we who will dictate the time; it is we who will dictate the place.
Source: Record of Aggression: the Arab Design for Israel’s Annihilation, Israel Information Services, New York: 1967, p. 12.
Apr 23, '64 “We swear to God that we shall not rest until we restore Arab nationalism to Palestine. No room for Israel within the Arab nation.” (Speech at San’a)
... and oh, sweetie, the UN commissioned Palmer inquiry into the Marmara incident & Gaza blockade concluded that the Israeli / Egyptian blockade is perfectly legal
And I am tired of repeating myself. remember the key words League of Nations Mandate, UNGAR 181 vote for "Jewish State," Armistice lines of 1949, Arab invasion of ISrael in 1948, Egyptian blockade of Straits of Tiran, Fedayeen terrorists from Gaza, Six Day War, Yom Kippur war, Israel-Egypt peace treaty., return of Sinai to Egypt.
No, international law is very confused when it comes to Israel. Intenational law BEGAN with the creation of the LEague of Nations after WWI. The Council of the League of Nations RULED at the San Remo conferences that Palestine is the "Jewish National Home" and issued the Mandate to Britain to open Palestine to unrestricted Jewish immigration and eventual Jewish sovereignty.Then Palestine was unilaterally partitioned by Britain, and a new Arab state, Jordan,was created in the east.
Not that I miss WHY history is important, it's just the interpretation of history that's problematic...it's written with great prejudice by whomever deems it important for their own particular cause...it simply acts as propaganda or as justification. The here and now, who's willing to fight..and WIN...that's who has "history" on it's side...aside from that, history is worthless... because it changes depending on whom you speak to. The here and now, THAT"S what's important, not propaganda.
There was no "Palestine" in the Ottoman empire, from 1516 to 1918 on any Turkish map. Only on European maps. In fact, the area we call today ISrael or Palestine was divided into FOUR (4) "sanjaqs" or Turkish districts! It wasn't even a single territorial unit under Ottoman rule! Why didn't the Turks give these so-called "Palestinians" a state before 1918? They ruled the place for 400 years! Suddenly, Erdogan, an Islamist, "cares" about "Palestine." Does he care about Kurdistan?
@JBGodzilla If Ergogan is Islamist as you claim then you have to realize that there are over 1.5 billion Islamists world wide. Turkey is not the Ottoman Empire anymore same as the people that live in Turkey. Therefore it shows you that otherwise this "Palestinian Occupation on behalf of Israel" would not taken place. Before you try to bring back the past, make sure you can relate it to the present, otherwise it will make you look stupid.
So what if there are 1.5 billion Muslims? There are 1.2 billion Chinese. There are 750 million Hindus. What do I care how many Muslims there are? There are only 13.5 million Jews, a very tiny people, and we have a very tiny homeland, Israel, but the Muslims try to deny us our very tiny little land! THat is all I care about. I don't care about 1.5 billion Muslims! I don't care if there were 7.5 billion Muslims. Israel is JEWISH LAND. Period.
It has been Jewish land occupied by others since 1200 BC. The Jewish nation will never accept permanent occupation of our land by anyone no matter how long they lived on our land! Will the German people allow Germany to become Turkish land? Did the Greeks accept Turkish occupation? Did the Serbians accept Turkish occupation? The Jews also do not accept foreign occupation of our ancient homeland.
It has been Israelite land since 1200 BC! IT does not matter to us Jews who occupied OUR land! It will never be anyone else's homeland! The Arabs are just occupiers of Jewish land.
@peterb37 LOL How come I knew some dimwit Zionist would give me an answer like that. So, what do you think ? Should we give the US back to the Indians or what. 1200 BC. Was that the Date Joshua murdered all of the inhabitants of Jericho ?
Well, if the UN passes a resolution to give back America to the Indians, why not? Why should we Jews give back our homeland to a bunch of Arabs who never had any right to it in the first place? And don't tell me Jesus was an Muslim Arab Imam.
@JBGodzilla Since part of my ancestry is Native American That would suit me fine. I'm not a Christian Or a Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu or any other kind of Hu. I think your all fucking nutty as fruit cakes.
Are you a member of a tribe? Unlike the others, Jews are a TRIBE, not another religion, and Israel is the TRIBAL HOMELAND of the Judean nation. I think most people don't understand that. They think of Jews as just adherents of a religion, like Christians or Muslims or Buddhists, etc.Judah was a tribe of Israel, and King David made Jerusalem the capital in 1000 BC. But our tribal lands ended up occupied by others and our tribe mostly had to scatter to the four corners of the world.
We all depends. If you are a Zionist parasite scumbag Jew yes they and all the goyims are the cancer. But if you are the rest of the population on earth than they have the right to they country like anybody else. Now what shoes are you in? ;)
@humanrights85 "Hey Democrasy and human right work for every body if you truely believe this values.What you saying is here Arbs kill each other and Israel kill 9 activist in internetional water what is wrong with it.Peace,love and honesty what we need in this world the moment before is tolate"
Good point. If you trace the origins of those values, who do you think authored the earliest known traces of these ideas?
In reference to Ms. Arraf's comments on political and economic pressure brought to bear on Greece, this is exactly what Beijing and Washington did to Madrid's investigations into war crimes and human rights violations by high ranking Chinese officials in Tibet. Hu Jintao visited Madrid, threatening economic repercussions if Madrid continued its 2 separate investigations. Washington didn't intervene until it was made public that Madrid was investigating Bush for war crimes in Iraq.
As for incorporating Judah, Samaria and Gaza into the Jewish state, if the residents are prepared to swear allegiance to the FLag of David, I have no problem with it. As long as Israel is undestood by everyone to be the homeland of the JEwish nation, just as Ireland of the Irish nation, or Germany of the Germanic tribes, I don't mind a huge Muslim Arab presence, as long as they respect our Jewish rights to our homeland, as the LEague of Nations recognized in 1922!
As for secular democracies, the simple fact is, that NO MAJORITY in any country wants to become the minority. In the US, as immigration rose, the backlash has become very strong. The White Majority is afraid of become a minority for the first since the US became independent. Even in the most liberal European countries, the backlash against immigration grows as the former native majority shrinks. SO I don't care what kind of country it is, no majority will willingly "democratically" submit.
Finkelstein is only one in a very LONG line of Jewish renegades and traitors, going all the way back to the time of Moses.WE always had an AMPLE SUPPLY of renegades in our midst.Karl Marx was virulently anti-Jewish nationalism as well, and his followers have always been communists first, and ashamed of their Jewish roots. Israel is so democratic that it lets outspoken traitors, both Jewish and Arabs, serve in its parliament and spout their treason OPENLY!Even the US Congress would not allow it.
Of COURSE the arms blockade on Gaza is 100% legal! Gaza was ruled by EGypt from 1049 to 1967, and in that time, fedayeen terrorists coming from Gaza murdered some 500 Israelis BEFORE the SIx Day War! When Sadat finally chose to recognize and make peace with Israel, Begin begged Sadat to take Gaza back! But Sadat REFUSED. He did not want it. Israel does not want it either. Gaza is a nest of terrorists, and has been since 1949. The city should have been levelled decades ago, and its people moved!
These two commie Jews, Finkelstein and Goodman, don't understand one thing: IF there had been no Bolshevik revolution in Russia in 1917, there would have been no fascists or Nazis in 1932! It was left wing, atheistic Jews like the two above, who indirectly brought Hitler to power! These extreme left wing Jews have ALWAYS been the greatest enemy of the Jewish people, since Karl Marx!
The JEws could have killed and burned all the "Palestinians" in 1949 too! GErmany is doing fine today. Maybe if the Jews had killed and burned 1/3rd of the Palestinians in 1948, Israel would have been better off today too!
@JBGodzilla , hey dude show more respect to the Turks in your comments because the Turks are the reason also why there are 14 millions Jews left. We saved the Jews from Spain, during the Alhambra Decree and also during the Holocaust. I saw your comments about Kurds too, but 70% of all Kurds in Turkey support Erdogan and 4 of the 9 killed on the flotilla were also Kurdish. Turks and Kurds, solving their problems on a democratic way lately, we support eachother. @BerfoBaran24 is my Kurdish brother
@BerfoBaran24 We know who tries to burn, kill, and mutilate. In that realm, truly the "Palestinians" and their solid peace loving religion are far worse than any Nazi I've ever heard of. Just look at what happens when those animals get a hold of someone in the streets. They pull out the entrails and lick the steaming flesh. I've seen videos many times, worse than any Hollywood horror films. It's enough to make anyone believe in Satan, seeing how these animals behave when they get a chance.
@constructivereconcil the whole palestinian and israelian war is a war about the islam and the jews,,,what do you think that the jews will occupied the palestinian land,and they will do nothing,,,they are trying with the things that they got,,but the time will come that your guns will be useless,and than your power is gone and than you will see the real satan,,and dont talk about something from 70 years ago because the nazi s did knew what they where doing
@BerfoBaran "the whole palestinian and israelian war is a war about the islam and the jews"
I know.
"do you think that the jews will occupied the palestinian land,and they will do nothing"
There's no Palestinian sovereign, therefore "Palestinian Land" doesn't exist. Will it exist in the future? If Palestinians can grow a state that can be tolerated, then perhaps. Not with terror though, which is a politically correct expression for Islamic imperialism & its total war tactics against the West.
@JBGodzilla If you draw that analogy, then we could go far more back in history and say that the Ottomans could have eridicated you within the amount of 800 years in Palestine. But destiny made the Ottomans the savior of the Jewish people. The response is the massacre of their former citizens.
@constructivereconcil I hint at the treatment than the Ottoman Empire. The former citizens were the palestinians and israelis too. Now Israel massacres the people of Ottoman ancestory as a late "thank you"-gift.
@KaRaKiTaY "I hint at the treatment than the Ottoman Empire"
Understood completely.
"The former citizens were the palestinians and israelis too"
Yes, true..and?
"Now Israel massacres the people of Ottoman ancestory as a late "thank you"-gift"
Where did that myth come from? You seem like a rational person, how about you persuade me with evidence, because for me, as someone only interested in letting the world move on, I want justice & facts. Please show me how you found evidence I missed.
@B if finkelstein weren't so intellectually & morally on the money, if his scholarship weren't so thorough & rigorous, if the implications of his views weren't so dangerous, ziocunts would have nothing to worry about. as it is the best you can do is try to put the tired old "lunatic" FRAME around a picture that tells a different story.
&, in case you haven't noticed, israHELL is the one being increasingly isolated: 1st egypt, now turkey & even domestically with its own people.
Norm Finkelstein has divided the politics of Israel in to the radicals on one side and the establishment on the other. He lives or dies on the question of Israel. If the Palestinian national movement is legitimate and morally equal to the liberal democracies of the United States and Israel, then he's a hero. Whatever they gain from being considered morally equal is assisted by him.
If they are not morally equal, then Finkelstein helps fight against Liberal democracy. How ironic.
@c i'm unsure what point you're trying to make as all you appear do is pose a polemic. that said, the "how ironic" coda suggests you're attempting to frame the argument with a decidedly pro-israel pov, without actually having to take the stand. in any case, there's no question in my mind (& clearly in dr. finkelstien's or in the minds of most of the world who've voted repeatedly to censure israel for its repeated human rights violations & crimes) that the palestinians have the moral upper hand.
I thought it was clear. If Finkelstein is wrong, then he is assisting Islamic imperialists. I'm pro-democracy, and if you look at the venue, it seems like democracy now is more concerned about Islamic imperialism than the actual liberal democracies that it targets.
How's that for clarity?
"repeated human rights violations"
The problem is when standards are not applied equally. If you don't understand now, you need to learn a lot more about Islam before you'll understand me.
i have a hard time deciphering your meaning because you're incoherent. you write very poorly. your syntax, usage & line of thought are convoluted & pretentious & the result is a LOT of words adding up to ZERO.
instead of posing a bunch of silly "if this than that" polemical questions why don't you provide EVIDENCE of your position? if you really wish to be understood, you can start by EXPLAINING in plain English how an occupied minority can be "imperialists". good luck.
@WikeddTung "start by EXPLAINING in plain English how an occupied minority"
That is very easy. "Palestinian" identity has been a fiction created for the purpose of making a victim group from the last local area to be purged of Jews. Follow the end of WWI &the various promises reneged back & forth, the Jews waiting patiently for their small slice of sovereignty while Islamic sovereigns get theirs. Islamic imperialism drives Palestinian politics. Clear enough?
Whether you're feigning stupidity or truly stupid doesn't matter. I'm perfectly happy to have the conversation rest with your childish confrontation, bravado & collapse for all to see. We both agree: the evidence of who approaches these problems rationally is certainly there to discover by those who approach with patience & objectivity. Since the exact same can be said for the larger scope of its subject, I hope more will follow this example each day.
Where would you like me to start? Do you accept that the subject is a man who makes accusations with insufficient evidence. Now I am to prove he has no evidence? How do I do that without seeing any to discuss? You need to start with the evidence you suppose to be valid. Do you not understand this you pretentious silly person? Don't blame me for your lack of comprehension. In theory, you could be right, but it may simply be over your head.
Your highly-emotional subjective remarks are a waste of time. Look in the mirror, perhaps look for a role model of someone you admire rather than trying to insult people who make you feel stupid.
@WikeddTung "the palestinians have the moral upper hand"
Only if you believe all of the lies and none of the truth. Evidence? You have none for your accusations. All you have is a list of people that support people like Finkelstein and his persecution of Israelis for overshadowing his own sense of victim-hood. You don't understand that Finkelstein has PTS from the Holocaust. His problem with Israel is personal. Bigots exploit him, when he really just needs therapy. I say that with no sarcasm.
@WikeddTung "how ironic" coda suggests you're attempting to frame the argument"
The irony is people who name a show after the supposed pursuit of "true" democracy while working against it. Democracy is a pursuit & we should always strive for perfection, & that doesn't mean we should just accept any claims uncritically, based on popular (pure democracy?) acceptance rather than facts. Lying by omission is all Finkelstein does, & bigots & dupes take him literally. What a shame for democracy.
@c that's a lot of projection & rationalization. democracy is indeed POPULAR opinion & the will of the PUBLIC. if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation of international law, treaties & conventions based on the available EVIDENCE (pretending israel doesn't go out of its way to present its own interpretation of events when the gov't engages in a pr policy DESIGNED to "explain" facts- HASBARA- is disingenuous.) THAT IS DEMOCRACY.
@WikeddTung "if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation..."
More evidence of the Islamic imperialist projects funded by Saudi Arabian oil wealth tithing is moving along just fine,
manipulating gullible people like you. That's why there's no global popular vote on matters of justice. Even if there was, you'd then need the equivalent of the human rights liberal democracies use to impede pure democracy taking away some (nation's?) reputation unjustly.
What you just said in effect was, evidence shmevidence, never mind all that, it's really democracy because (in your opinion), lots of people hate Israel & believe the evidence is a non-issue regardless of whether there's valid evidence, never mind all that technical stuff since we feel we're right? And that's democracy? In theory, you have SOME of the elements while ignoring my key point: evidence vs myths. You're a little bitchy myth whore. Show me the evidence.
@WikeddTung "democracy is indeed POPULAR opinion & the will of the PUBLIC"
Not nearly precise enough. You're trying to skate over the issue. My point is more than just the fact that you have not pointed to any specific population or entities that could be counted, the point is that accusations require meeting specific standards of evidence. If a jury unanimously votes to convict someone before the trial starts, will you claim that's democratic too? I think by your explanation you would.
@WikeddTung "if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation of international law, treaties & conventions based on the available EVIDENCE"
You'd have to try to argue that specifically. There are theories, fine, but you didn't say "in theory." You started attacking me because I pointed out that Mr. Finkelstein does not use an objective approach in presenting his analysis. I'm sure he as a few times but as a rule, he's purely emotion & rhetoric.
@WikeddTung "(pretending israel doesn't go out of its way to present its own interpretation of events when the gov't engages in a pr policy DESIGNED to "explain" facts- HASBARA- is disingenuous.)"
Oh NOW I get it. You are some freak that thinks you can read people's minds. So really, I stumbled on to a conversation you're having with yourself, & I just got confused because you integrated some delusional remarks about me in to your internal dialog. I'll just clear up a few things for the others.
"if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation of international law, treaties & conventions based on the available EVIDENCE...THAT IS DEMOCRACY"
In theory, you've stated elements of what we might call, what I might call organic elements of democracy. The democracy I'm talking about is the United States & the Western liberal democracies, which I was very clear about. Not a very good try, but I realize YOU only need to impress yourself.
JEws are a NATION and the word "Jew" comes from the KINGDOM of JUDAH!Our nation founded its own religion, which other people who decided to become Christians or Muslims decided to copy to one extent or another,even using our Hebrew books to base them on to a certain extent. The State of Israel is the national homeland of the Jewish nation, as well as the country of all its citizens, 26% of whom are not Jews. Just as the German homeland has many Turkish and Jewish citizens as well.
than the solution to the issue seems to be to incorporate the west bank & gaza into one truly democratic state called israel with an arab majority voting for its own interests (like whether and where they can BUILD THEIR OWN HOMES) alongside the jewish minority voting for its own interests as well. that's what a democracy like germany, the UK, the US and all other modern, secular, western democracies look like.
The SOLUTION is for the whole world,especially the MUSLIM world,to accept and respect Israel as the JEWISH STATE first!Only then can all the rest of the issues be dealt with THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS!That is Netanyahu's position!But the other side, led by Abbas, have made it crystal clear that they will never accept Israel as the JEWISH STATE and hence it is Islam, not Israel, that is the problem here! It is Islam that has to accept Israel for there to be peace, not the other way around!
@JBGodzilla "The SOLUTION is for the whole world,especially the MUSLIM world,to accept and respect Israel as the JEWISH STATE first!"
fine, so who said it isn't? i go back to my original comment: what your "jewish" state most decidedly is NOT, again, is a DEMOCRACY. we can go in circles with this. ultimately you can't have it both ways.
@WikeddTung "fine, so who said it isn't? i go back to my original comment: what your "jewish" state most decidedly is NOT, again, is a DEMOCRACY. we can go in circles with this. ultimately you can't have it both ways"
@JBGodzilla "The SOLUTION is for the whole world,especially the MUSLIM world,to accept and respect Israel as the JEWISH STATE first!"
How do you like these fucking hypocrites who have no problem with Iran, Saudi Arabia, and others who have their Islamic theocracies, but Jews in or near the uma must be dhimmis, and this demand is considered democracy by this moron because he asked the world and most of them agree with "mr. wikedd."
Never mind that they lie endlessly about Jewish history too.
Also, second point. Your statement seems to ASSUME that ARabs are the majority west of the Jordan river, which is NOT YET the case! The most recent demographic estimates are that JEws are about 5.8 million, while non-Jews (mostly Arabs) are 5.5 million west of the Jordan river. So as of right now, JEws are the MAJORITY in ISrael, Judah, Samaria, etc. That may change in a few short years, but NOT YET. So please get your basic facts straight first!
@J lol. the point is demographics are CLEARLY an issue & THE SINGLE BIGGEST obstacle to israel EVER being a real democracy. arabs may not outnumber jews in the region yet, but at the current rate of procreation on BOTH sides, they soon will be. for this reason it's imperative for israel to ETHNICALLY CLEANSE the region of arabs in order to keep up the pretense of "democracy" without having to actually be one. otherwise it's an APARTHEID. you want a jewish state? have it. it's NOT a democracy.
@WikeddTung "the point is demographics are CLEARLY an issue & THE SINGLE BIGGEST obstacle to israel EVER being a real democracy. arabs may not outnumber jews in the region yet, but at the current rate of procreation on BOTH sides"
You're worried about future demographics, & democracy, you want to represent the majority of the future? This sounds like central planning & socialism now. Make up your mind. Oh yeah, Communists claim to also believe in "democracy." There are so many flavors of it...
@WikeddTung "THE SINGLE BIGGEST obstacle to israel EVER being a real democracy"
Too bad the Western nations emancipated the African slaves, which means they had to abandon real democracy. Oh well, African slaves in the United States and Jewish dhimmis must be maintained to have democracy I guess. Er, that's Real DemocracyTM (it seems).
@WikeddTung "than the solution to the issue seems to be to incorporate the west bank & gaza into one truly democratic state called israel with an arab majority voting for its own interests (like whether and where they can BUILD THEIR OWN HOMES) alongside the jewish minority voting for its own interests as well. that's what a democracy like germany, the UK, the US and all other modern, secular, western democracies look like.
@JBGodzilla "JEws are a NATION and the word "Jew" comes from the KINGDOM of JUDAH!Our nation founded its own religion, which other people who decided to become Christians or Muslims decided to copy to one extent or another,even using our Hebrew books to base them on to a certain extent. The State of Israel is the national homeland of the Jewish nation, as well as the country of all its citizens, 26% of whom are not Jews. Just as the any other."
@WikeddTung "what is most decidedly NOT democracy is a JEWISH state"
In the context of what it replaced, it's the only justice possible. That is why it was generally supported by all democracies until the Islamic imperialists began their campaign to deceive the new baby boomer idiots during the Cold War.
So, you must really hate those Islamic republics I suppose? I'd like to see just how consistent you are.
@WikeddTung "any attempt to rationalize an ethno-religious state for one ethno-religious group as democratic is dishonest & hypocritical"
You must really hate Affirmative action and the earlier emancipation of the slaves in the West, specifically in the American Civil War. Civil rights must be absolutely blind, right? It can't even acknowledge ethnicity. This is your theory?
Hypocritical? Now that you mention it, let's see how consistent you are.
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
I'll go slow. I said, "Norm Finkelstein has divided the politics of Israel in to the radicals on one side and the establishment on the other."
Is that part clear? Generally we're talking about typical political divisions, left vs right, Islam vs. the West, "Liberal" vs. "those supporting liberal democracy & due process." That kind of division. Now I'm not yet ready to offer evidence because you indicated a lack of comprehension.
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
Next statement, "He lives or dies on the question of Israel."
This was poetic license, with so few characters, some like me try to balance content and clarity, but because you asked nicely, I'm going to help you step through the confusion.
What I would have said was that his *extreme* position or political platform really rests on whether his positions are defensible with the facts. It "lives or dies" because it's all or nothing IMO.
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
3) "If the Palestinian national movement is legitimate and morally equal to the liberal democracies of the United States and Israel, then he's a hero."
IOW, if (*IF*) his claims are all supported by the facts vis-a-vis the theory of Palestinians being a persecuted minority with no faults of their own, then Finkelstein has rallied many people & groups behind this issue with lots of emotion as well. Facts matter & he gets people angry.
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
4) "Whatever they gain from being considered morally equal is assisted by him"
I'm simply adding to the statement that he has built a strongly emotional case for the morally superior position of the "Palestinians" as the "persecuted minority" theory you acknowledged.
I hope you're going to respond to these with sincerity since I've taken the extra time you requested.
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
5) "If they are not morally equal, then Finkelstein helps fight against Liberal democracy."
IOW, I've recapped my statements to remind that the evidence is not exactly conclusive, since it's rarely been presented in a rational, neutral, methodical probing manner. I often hear sarcasm that can be taken literally be some but then backed off from because nobody can demand proof.
6) "If they are not morally equal, then Finkelstein helps fight against Liberal democracy. How ironic"
1 of the favorite venues of Mr. Finkelstein is the program "Democracy Now" & both the USA & Israel (as liberal democracies) are constantly attacked as unjust in their dealings with a supposed persecuted minority that has no pretensions of any interest in democracy that I know of. I could be wrong of course. There's also the clean hands doctrine etc, lots of issues are ignored.
"You never see Finkelstein or Chomsky on Fox News or any of the MSM networks, that's because they are controlled by the Zionists!"
You're joking, right? Don't you realize that Israel itself has as much opposition among Jews in the diaspora as it has supporters? They don't want the persecution to get worse with all of the hysterical lies about supposed "war crimes" (that never have any evidence).
Whatever. You're one of the "water poison" freaks I guess. Look it up.
I want to also point out that this venue here is not ideal for communications, compromises are made, & I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you sincerely want to hear more clearly what I was saying. I see evidence to the contrary as well, so time will tell, I'm sure. Try to be a bit more humble rather than making inappropriate demands as though you too are a victim. This is what I find so repugnant from this whole angry group, this self-declared victim-hood of you & others.
@WikeddTung "how ironic" coda suggests you're attempting to frame the argument with a decidedly pro-israel pov"
I think it's suspicious that you immediately need to label me "pro Israeli" for suggesting that the evidence is hard to find & for questioning why the benefit of the doubt is granted to what at best can be described as a glorified crime family along the lines of a Mafia family, who have morally superior position to the liberal democracies on the basis of purely emotional arguments.
israel is a terror state and turkey is a genocidal fascist state...maybe that is the reason why they have been close allies during the last decades ...
Im Turkish and I dont support these provocation from Turkeys side. Turkish people have their own problems. Israel has always been a friend, a better friend than the arab world. Yes Israel has its mistakes but Israel is in a position where all the Arabs want to exterminate all jews. I appologize to all Jewish people here.
Basically, if a report tells the facts, and is a LITTLE bit in Israel's advantage, it's an outrage. At the same time hundreds of muslims are being murdered by other muslim "brothers"... Of course this is of no importance, proving a factual report wrong is more important.
@polridi You must read news reports from a variety of perspectives. You sound too rational to be arguing with idiots on youtube. This also makes you a fascist by their definition.
It's pathetic to see how those who don't like to see a single word of criticism toward Israel ever being voiced, in their efforts to dismiss Falkenstein and his report to the UN, for lack of any substantive criticism resorting to ad-hominem characterization of him as a "false jew" and a "quasi intellectual". A perfect bitter-loser strategy, only goes to show you for what you truly are - bitter and hateful trolls that are feeding on insults and affronts.
@Antoshik81 "It's pathetic to see how those who don't like to see a single word of criticism toward Israel ever being voiced"
No, the only thing I ever argue for is applying the same standards to all. Chomsky & Finkelstein lie about Islam. Period. There are crimes that flow from this fact, but the root problem is their defense of Islamic Jihadis as supposed victims, just like the Communists were "victimized" by the West.
"United in Hate" and "Dupes" are imperfect but enlightening books.
@noprincessa "according to your logic, or rather a complete lack of it,
you may as well say that at the end of 1939 Germany was the only "normal" country in Europe."
How is that? He didn't imply any logic. That was just a bottom line sentiment with the assumption (both mine and his) that people who have read the comments will understand his point. I know I do.
At least you're honest. These fucking Islamic imperialist dupes try to tell us that Israel and the West are NOT real democracies because we or they abandoned *pure* "real democracy" for the sake of human rights. Phooey!
@kavkazip at least he is telling the world that not all jews are permitting what Israel does to the Palestine. He is bringing good especially to the jews community in the eyes of the world. you religion teaches you to do that, so what wrong with it?
This has been flagged as spam show
Regarding Dr. Finkelstein;
What a remarkably well informed scholar.
Resolve such as this unequivocally eminates from a very deep seated personal sense of Humanity.
He unwaveringly challenges with a banner of Morality and Ethics in one hand and Factual Truths in the other.
Such a Noble individual, to stand against many of those within his own religious faith, knowing them to be Wrong. This can only be true Righteousness.
bassammaelborno 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Regarding Dr. Finkelstein;
Whether he is of Jewish faith or not, appears to be far less relevant to him than are his guiding Moral Values and Ethical Principles.
A true 'Rebel' is one who challenges Injustice, regardless. His profound sense of Humanity was undoubtedly nurtured early in life by his mother and what she came away with from her own persecution under the Nazis
bassammaelborno 2 months ago
Dr. Finkelstein is currently teaching in his late parents apartment on Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn.
rachelgolem 3 months ago
As a NZer, I would like to apologise for Mr Palmer's contribution to this farce.
houdini2233 5 months ago
fenersevedien there was no wepons only israel has guns and shot unarmed poeple son of turk cCc.
101washburn 5 months ago
let me ask you all just one thing:
What was on the mavi marmara? what kind of people? was there food on this boat?
fenersevedien 5 months ago
@fenersevedien YES Food, Medicine, Wheel chairs, Concrete ETC.
You know what else was on the boat?? JEWS and even a HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR. (Hedy Epstein)
Is that enough to answer your "question"..
So answer mine do you BELIEVE that a ship checked + approved by the UN/NATO with a HOLOCAUST survivor on board would bring weapons etc. to Israel? Are you THIS fucking ignorant .. even ISRAEL said there where medicine etc. on board, they feared Hamas would build bunkers with the concrete!
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@fenersevedien Dat was de domste vraag ooit, kan net zo goed vragen of er water in de zee zit.
Tip, ga niet sarcastische onzin vragen stellen, onderzoek dingen eerst.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
Bwhinge about why his spam is marked as spam and a collection of all his spam can be found here
youtube/thread?tid=156516aacf71b272&hl=en
Yarons spam can also be found on the following channels - catch22112,meirt1978, OrSadof - yes, he even spams the same propaganda on peoples channels
From his logic and reasoning he seems to have the intellectual level of a spammer
Magenta408 5 months ago
The report is considered deeply flawed and outrageous. The fact is Israeli pirates occupied and killed innocents Turks and Americans in international waters to deprive Palestinians of humanitarian goods. This in violation of all international law with respect to international water boundaries.
Magenta408 5 months ago
@yaron3534 Sending close to $10 billion a year to Israel in a recession is not in the US' interest.
Putting loyalty to a foreign nation ahead of loyalty to the interests of the US is not a legitimate debate. The Gaza concentration camp is not in the US' interest. Israel executing Americans is not in the US' interest. Sending close to $10 billion a year to Israel in a recession is not in the US' interest.
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534 "One more israeli puppet overthrown, step closer to Palestinian freedom."
Israel's status as a member state of the United Nations means that it is bound under Article 25 of the United Nations Charter to "agree, accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council".
Security Council resolutions adopted in the exercise of its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace in accordance with the UN Charter are binding upon the member states
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534 "One more israeli puppet overthrown, step closer to Palestinian freedom."
"Calls on member states to support international efforts to alleviate the humanitarian and economic situation in Gaza, including through urgently needed additional contributions to UNRWA and through the Ad-hoc Liaison Committee. (UNRWA is the agency responsible for assisting Palestinian refugees)
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534 "One more israeli puppet overthrown, step closer to Palestinian freedom."
"Welcomes the initiatives aimed at creating and opening humanitarian corridors and other mechanisms for the sustained delivery of humanitarian aid.
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534 sweetie While Israel claims it is the Palestinians who refuse the oppertunity for peace, it is Israel who continues to take more land, by force of arms, as more time goes by.
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534
sweetie Israel has continued to this day in confiscating further Palestinian territory with what Israel terms as "settlements" which are also in defiance of the Forth Geneva Conventions.
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534 sweetie As a result of the 1967 war, Israel subsequently occupied lands through force of arms which is also in defiance of the Geneva Conventions that Israel will not recognize here.
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534 sweetie Israel did not allow the Palestinians right of return after the 1947 & 48 wars which is contrary to law as stated in the Forth Geneva Convention and although a signator, Israel now disputes and refuses to recognize that law.
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
@yaron3534 sweetie Israel could not exist as it is today without having displaced the Arab population that lived in what is now Israel.
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
What does this have to do with the Palmer report? Just keep tossing about quotes when and where you think it is convenient. You should know the issues.
Magenta408 5 months ago
@Magenta408
Yarons whinge about why his spam is marked as spam and a collection of all his spam can be found here
youtube/thread?tid=156516aacf71b272&hl=en
Yarons spam can also be found on the following channels - catch22112,meirt1978, OrSadof - yes, he even spams the same propaganda on peoples channels
bugsy4zionist 5 months ago
Israel cannot occupy land acquired through war. Basic tennant of international law. You should know this.
Magenta408 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What a crock of shit!
Magenta408 5 months ago
Focus on the article rather than your check list of cliches. The key issues are an attack in international waters, illegal occupation of territories acquired during war which is a crime and the 1967 borders. This is all you have to focus on or is it too much for you?
Magenta408 5 months ago
@Magenta408
- 1948-UN recognized tiny Israel
- 7 Arab armies invaded the next morning to annihilate
- Most egregious, blatant & criminal violation of a UN resolution in history
- No OCCUPATION & no WEST BANK - Arabs lost
- Tough luck - Hence occupation
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
- The West Bank has no legal international jurisdiction to this day
- The land belongs to no one
- This is why Jordan (%70 Palestinian) & Egypt occupied it at will when it served their political needs of the day
- The term:"Palestinians" created after 67
- Subjugated nomadic Arabs knew better what to expect had they dared to demand
basic human rights let alone independence (God forbid...)
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
Quotes by G Nasser (Egypt's president), 1954-67
May 8, '54 "Israel is an artificial state which must disappear" "There is no sense in talking peace with Israel. There isn’t even the smallest place for negotiations between the Arabs and Israel"
Following his nationalization of the Suez Canal on July 26, 1956, Nasser, Egypt’s president, delivers ever more vehement speeches against Israel, threatening its annihilation
(Gilbert, Martin. Israel: A History, New York; William Morrow)
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
Naser (Egypt's president) in a letter to Jordan's king Hussein- 1961: “Our army has been reinforced in a manner that gratifies every Arab. If Your Majesty will recall that the Defence budget comes to a figure of 120m. Egyptian pounds, the magnitude of the sacrifice the people make will reveal itself in all its great dimensions before Your eyes, as will its uncompromising decision to accept responsibility against the common enemy of the entire Arab nation – Israel.”
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
13 Oct '60, Radio Cairo “Referring to Palestine in his address to the UN , Nasser outlines 2 levels in the campaign. 1st is the armed armistice, which Arabs will, in their own good time, turn into a battle-field – a battle of vengeance & blood, the battle of Palestine
“We do not deny that we want war. We want war; this is our right. The return of Palestine is impossible without war”
August 17, '61 “The Arab people will never allow Israel to exist in Palestine.”
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
Quotes by Gamal Abdel Nasser, 1954-'67.
Aug 17, '61 “The Arabs will never allow Israel & those supporting her to realize their objectives in keeping Israel in existence in Palestine.”
17 Aug 1961, “We will act to realize Arab solidarity & eventually put an end to Israel We will liquidate her"
Sept 27, '61 In his speech at the UN:
“Only solution to Palestine- return to the conditions before the error was committed – (annulment of Israel’s existence”)
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
18 May 1962, President Nasser of Egypt “I do not know of such things as semi-military operations. There may be war, but not semi-war…When the time comes for us to fight a war, it will be a comprehensive war…When I start a war, I want to take it to the only end I accept – which is decisive victory."
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
22 Feb '64, President Nasser of Egypt “The possibilities of the future will be war with Israel. It is we who will dictate the time; it is we who will dictate the place.
Source: Record of Aggression: the Arab Design for Israel’s Annihilation, Israel Information Services, New York: 1967, p. 12.
Apr 23, '64 “We swear to God that we shall not rest until we restore Arab nationalism to Palestine. No room for Israel within the Arab nation.” (Speech at San’a)
yaron3534 5 months ago
@Magenta408
... and oh, sweetie, the UN commissioned Palmer inquiry into the Marmara incident & Gaza blockade concluded that the Israeli / Egyptian blockade is perfectly legal
yaron3534 5 months ago
remember the key words - occupied terrirotires, UN convention, international law and international boundaries. I am tired of repeating myself.
Magenta408 5 months ago
@Magenta408
And I am tired of repeating myself. remember the key words League of Nations Mandate, UNGAR 181 vote for "Jewish State," Armistice lines of 1949, Arab invasion of ISrael in 1948, Egyptian blockade of Straits of Tiran, Fedayeen terrorists from Gaza, Six Day War, Yom Kippur war, Israel-Egypt peace treaty., return of Sinai to Egypt.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
***** Israel gouvernment is the new Nazi SS today *****
What happened to the Jews by the Nazis at that past time, they do the same today with the Arabs.
Gaza is one big ghetto, as it was during the Nazi times
***** Shame - and the whole world looks on. *****
Only Premier Erdogan and Turkey do not close their eyes.
Loeki76 5 months ago 12
watch MOSSAD CAUGHT IN VAN ON 9-11 "FILLED WITH EXPLOSIVES" GW BRIDGE. needs no set up. just watch and see who did 911.
sssssjjjj1 5 months ago
You have to differentiate between Israel and the occupied territories. International law dictates the boundaries very well.
Magenta408 5 months ago
@Magenta408
No, international law is very confused when it comes to Israel. Intenational law BEGAN with the creation of the LEague of Nations after WWI. The Council of the League of Nations RULED at the San Remo conferences that Palestine is the "Jewish National Home" and issued the Mandate to Britain to open Palestine to unrestricted Jewish immigration and eventual Jewish sovereignty.Then Palestine was unilaterally partitioned by Britain, and a new Arab state, Jordan,was created in the east.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla
Jordan was the original Palestinian state! Now they want a SECOND Arab state! But what they really want is to destroy the Jewish state.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
Not that I miss WHY history is important, it's just the interpretation of history that's problematic...it's written with great prejudice by whomever deems it important for their own particular cause...it simply acts as propaganda or as justification. The here and now, who's willing to fight..and WIN...that's who has "history" on it's side...aside from that, history is worthless... because it changes depending on whom you speak to. The here and now, THAT"S what's important, not propaganda.
dannon2010 5 months ago
There was no "Palestine" in the Ottoman empire, from 1516 to 1918 on any Turkish map. Only on European maps. In fact, the area we call today ISrael or Palestine was divided into FOUR (4) "sanjaqs" or Turkish districts! It wasn't even a single territorial unit under Ottoman rule! Why didn't the Turks give these so-called "Palestinians" a state before 1918? They ruled the place for 400 years! Suddenly, Erdogan, an Islamist, "cares" about "Palestine." Does he care about Kurdistan?
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla If Ergogan is Islamist as you claim then you have to realize that there are over 1.5 billion Islamists world wide. Turkey is not the Ottoman Empire anymore same as the people that live in Turkey. Therefore it shows you that otherwise this "Palestinian Occupation on behalf of Israel" would not taken place. Before you try to bring back the past, make sure you can relate it to the present, otherwise it will make you look stupid.
torontoman2009 5 months ago
Isreal is a cancer on this globe. It must be treated accordingly.
Magenta408 5 months ago 10
@Magenta408
So what if there are 1.5 billion Muslims? There are 1.2 billion Chinese. There are 750 million Hindus. What do I care how many Muslims there are? There are only 13.5 million Jews, a very tiny people, and we have a very tiny homeland, Israel, but the Muslims try to deny us our very tiny little land! THat is all I care about. I don't care about 1.5 billion Muslims! I don't care if there were 7.5 billion Muslims. Israel is JEWISH LAND. Period.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla Who's land was it in 1945 ?
peterb37 5 months ago in playlist More videos from democracynow
@peterb37
It has been Jewish land occupied by others since 1200 BC. The Jewish nation will never accept permanent occupation of our land by anyone no matter how long they lived on our land! Will the German people allow Germany to become Turkish land? Did the Greeks accept Turkish occupation? Did the Serbians accept Turkish occupation? The Jews also do not accept foreign occupation of our ancient homeland.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
Respond to this video... Who's land was it in 1650. Who's land was it in 1750, and 1850 ?
peterb37 5 months ago in playlist More videos from democracynow
@peterb37
It has been Israelite land since 1200 BC! IT does not matter to us Jews who occupied OUR land! It will never be anyone else's homeland! The Arabs are just occupiers of Jewish land.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@peterb37 LOL How come I knew some dimwit Zionist would give me an answer like that. So, what do you think ? Should we give the US back to the Indians or what. 1200 BC. Was that the Date Joshua murdered all of the inhabitants of Jericho ?
peterb37 5 months ago
@peterb37
Well, if the UN passes a resolution to give back America to the Indians, why not? Why should we Jews give back our homeland to a bunch of Arabs who never had any right to it in the first place? And don't tell me Jesus was an Muslim Arab Imam.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla Since part of my ancestry is Native American That would suit me fine. I'm not a Christian Or a Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu or any other kind of Hu. I think your all fucking nutty as fruit cakes.
peterb37 5 months ago
@peterb37
Are you a member of a tribe? Unlike the others, Jews are a TRIBE, not another religion, and Israel is the TRIBAL HOMELAND of the Judean nation. I think most people don't understand that. They think of Jews as just adherents of a religion, like Christians or Muslims or Buddhists, etc.Judah was a tribe of Israel, and King David made Jerusalem the capital in 1000 BC. But our tribal lands ended up occupied by others and our tribe mostly had to scatter to the four corners of the world.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@Magenta408 I wouldnt give cancer the honor of killing zionists.... i would rather have the honor myself....
lijpootje 1 month ago
The old man on the Bosforos is sick again...
JusticeVSpropaganda 5 months ago
Jews the parasite cancer on the humanity. Only way to deal with the like you do with cancer.
MrSzalasiFerenc 5 months ago
@MrSzalasiFerenc what do you mean how do you treat the cancer? What do you do to get rid of cancer?
MrAataghi 5 months ago
@MrAataghi
Use your imagination and commonsense.
MrSzalasiFerenc 5 months ago
@MrSzalasiFerenc
Actually, the "Palestinians" are the cancer who have to be gotten rid of.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla
We all depends. If you are a Zionist parasite scumbag Jew yes they and all the goyims are the cancer. But if you are the rest of the population on earth than they have the right to they country like anybody else. Now what shoes are you in? ;)
MrSzalasiFerenc 5 months ago
@MrSzalasiFerenc
Not in your shoes, thank God. But I am a Zionist Jew, and not a parasitic "Palestinian," if that is what you want to know,
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
we will support Hamas, Fatah! Hizbullah, Syria, and Iran to built nuclear weapons.
FucKkhazarJews 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@humanrights85 "Hey Democrasy and human right work for every body if you truely believe this values.What you saying is here Arbs kill each other and Israel kill 9 activist in internetional water what is wrong with it.Peace,love and honesty what we need in this world the moment before is tolate"
Good point. If you trace the origins of those values, who do you think authored the earliest known traces of these ideas?
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
In reference to Ms. Arraf's comments on political and economic pressure brought to bear on Greece, this is exactly what Beijing and Washington did to Madrid's investigations into war crimes and human rights violations by high ranking Chinese officials in Tibet. Hu Jintao visited Madrid, threatening economic repercussions if Madrid continued its 2 separate investigations. Washington didn't intervene until it was made public that Madrid was investigating Bush for war crimes in Iraq.
mispistoleros 5 months ago
As for incorporating Judah, Samaria and Gaza into the Jewish state, if the residents are prepared to swear allegiance to the FLag of David, I have no problem with it. As long as Israel is undestood by everyone to be the homeland of the JEwish nation, just as Ireland of the Irish nation, or Germany of the Germanic tribes, I don't mind a huge Muslim Arab presence, as long as they respect our Jewish rights to our homeland, as the LEague of Nations recognized in 1922!
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
As for secular democracies, the simple fact is, that NO MAJORITY in any country wants to become the minority. In the US, as immigration rose, the backlash has become very strong. The White Majority is afraid of become a minority for the first since the US became independent. Even in the most liberal European countries, the backlash against immigration grows as the former native majority shrinks. SO I don't care what kind of country it is, no majority will willingly "democratically" submit.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
Finkelstein is only one in a very LONG line of Jewish renegades and traitors, going all the way back to the time of Moses.WE always had an AMPLE SUPPLY of renegades in our midst.Karl Marx was virulently anti-Jewish nationalism as well, and his followers have always been communists first, and ashamed of their Jewish roots. Israel is so democratic that it lets outspoken traitors, both Jewish and Arabs, serve in its parliament and spout their treason OPENLY!Even the US Congress would not allow it.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
The Greeks, Armenians and Kurds are consulting with Israel on how to shoot up a boatload of Turks!!!!!
rachelgolem 5 months ago
@rachelgolem
now that i see you're a bit of a troll, maybe not so funny after all
WikeddTung 5 months ago
terrorist state israel support terrorist PKK
yklocnykl 5 months ago
Of COURSE the arms blockade on Gaza is 100% legal! Gaza was ruled by EGypt from 1049 to 1967, and in that time, fedayeen terrorists coming from Gaza murdered some 500 Israelis BEFORE the SIx Day War! When Sadat finally chose to recognize and make peace with Israel, Begin begged Sadat to take Gaza back! But Sadat REFUSED. He did not want it. Israel does not want it either. Gaza is a nest of terrorists, and has been since 1949. The city should have been levelled decades ago, and its people moved!
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
These two commie Jews, Finkelstein and Goodman, don't understand one thing: IF there had been no Bolshevik revolution in Russia in 1917, there would have been no fascists or Nazis in 1932! It was left wing, atheistic Jews like the two above, who indirectly brought Hitler to power! These extreme left wing Jews have ALWAYS been the greatest enemy of the Jewish people, since Karl Marx!
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla Good points.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
The biggest mistake which is was not committed by Hitler that he did not burn all the Jews and Israel before he died.....Death to Israel.
Baderharo14 5 months ago
@Baderharo14
The JEws could have killed and burned all the "Palestinians" in 1949 too! GErmany is doing fine today. Maybe if the Jews had killed and burned 1/3rd of the Palestinians in 1948, Israel would have been better off today too!
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla the time will come and than we will see who is going to kill and burn the other,,HEILL HITLERR
BerfoBaran24 5 months ago
@BerfoBaran24
Oh, you may see it alright. Just not who you think. My family already burned in 1942. Maybe the next time it could be yours?
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla , hey dude show more respect to the Turks in your comments because the Turks are the reason also why there are 14 millions Jews left. We saved the Jews from Spain, during the Alhambra Decree and also during the Holocaust. I saw your comments about Kurds too, but 70% of all Kurds in Turkey support Erdogan and 4 of the 9 killed on the flotilla were also Kurdish. Turks and Kurds, solving their problems on a democratic way lately, we support eachother. @BerfoBaran24 is my Kurdish brother
DutchTurkish 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla it s good to hear that about your family,,,next time it s your turn stupid motherfucker
BerfoBaran24 5 months ago
@BerfoBaran24
Next time it will be YOUR grandmother, and your kid that will be shot and burned if that is the way you feel. We had our turn; next turn is YOURS.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla your turn has never been over you fucking pig
BerfoBaran24 5 months ago
@BerfoBaran24 We know who tries to burn, kill, and mutilate. In that realm, truly the "Palestinians" and their solid peace loving religion are far worse than any Nazi I've ever heard of. Just look at what happens when those animals get a hold of someone in the streets. They pull out the entrails and lick the steaming flesh. I've seen videos many times, worse than any Hollywood horror films. It's enough to make anyone believe in Satan, seeing how these animals behave when they get a chance.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@constructivereconcil the whole palestinian and israelian war is a war about the islam and the jews,,,what do you think that the jews will occupied the palestinian land,and they will do nothing,,,they are trying with the things that they got,,but the time will come that your guns will be useless,and than your power is gone and than you will see the real satan,,and dont talk about something from 70 years ago because the nazi s did knew what they where doing
BerfoBaran24 5 months ago
@BerfoBaran "the whole palestinian and israelian war is a war about the islam and the jews"
I know.
"do you think that the jews will occupied the palestinian land,and they will do nothing"
There's no Palestinian sovereign, therefore "Palestinian Land" doesn't exist. Will it exist in the future? If Palestinians can grow a state that can be tolerated, then perhaps. Not with terror though, which is a politically correct expression for Islamic imperialism & its total war tactics against the West.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla If you draw that analogy, then we could go far more back in history and say that the Ottomans could have eridicated you within the amount of 800 years in Palestine. But destiny made the Ottomans the savior of the Jewish people. The response is the massacre of their former citizens.
KaRaKiTaY 5 months ago
@KaRaKiTaY "destiny made the Ottomans the savior of the Jewish people"
The Ottoman's walked away in peace or lost their Jihad? ...as if I don't already know the answer...
"The response is the massacre of their former citizens"
The response of who? Former citizens who try to continue the Islamic jihad & are defeated justly.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@constructivereconcil I hint at the treatment than the Ottoman Empire. The former citizens were the palestinians and israelis too. Now Israel massacres the people of Ottoman ancestory as a late "thank you"-gift.
KaRaKiTaY 5 months ago
@KaRaKiTaY "I hint at the treatment than the Ottoman Empire"
Understood completely.
"The former citizens were the palestinians and israelis too"
Yes, true..and?
"Now Israel massacres the people of Ottoman ancestory as a late "thank you"-gift"
Where did that myth come from? You seem like a rational person, how about you persuade me with evidence, because for me, as someone only interested in letting the world move on, I want justice & facts. Please show me how you found evidence I missed.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
izzzzzrael is EVIL
izzzzzzzzzzrael is evil
izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzrael is evil
izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz IS PURE PURE EVIL
oceanbound222 5 months ago
@oceanbound222
"PURE EVIL" = oceanbound222 = liar = demonizer = Satanic
You ought to know about hell, but that doesn't mean you won't lie.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
Finkelstein is a deranged fucking lunatic who is so useless he is now unemployed. Soon 'turkey' will be Free KURDISTAN
Bolshevik71 5 months ago
@Bolshevik71 HEY HOW DARE YOU say the truth.
LampPlaceThing 5 months ago
@B if finkelstein weren't so intellectually & morally on the money, if his scholarship weren't so thorough & rigorous, if the implications of his views weren't so dangerous, ziocunts would have nothing to worry about. as it is the best you can do is try to put the tired old "lunatic" FRAME around a picture that tells a different story.
&, in case you haven't noticed, israHELL is the one being increasingly isolated: 1st egypt, now turkey & even domestically with its own people.
WikeddTung 5 months ago 20
@WikeddTung
Norm Finkelstein has divided the politics of Israel in to the radicals on one side and the establishment on the other. He lives or dies on the question of Israel. If the Palestinian national movement is legitimate and morally equal to the liberal democracies of the United States and Israel, then he's a hero. Whatever they gain from being considered morally equal is assisted by him.
If they are not morally equal, then Finkelstein helps fight against Liberal democracy. How ironic.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@c i'm unsure what point you're trying to make as all you appear do is pose a polemic. that said, the "how ironic" coda suggests you're attempting to frame the argument with a decidedly pro-israel pov, without actually having to take the stand. in any case, there's no question in my mind (& clearly in dr. finkelstien's or in the minds of most of the world who've voted repeatedly to censure israel for its repeated human rights violations & crimes) that the palestinians have the moral upper hand.
WikeddTung 5 months ago 7
@WikeddTung
I thought it was clear. If Finkelstein is wrong, then he is assisting Islamic imperialists. I'm pro-democracy, and if you look at the venue, it seems like democracy now is more concerned about Islamic imperialism than the actual liberal democracies that it targets.
How's that for clarity?
"repeated human rights violations"
The problem is when standards are not applied equally. If you don't understand now, you need to learn a lot more about Islam before you'll understand me.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@constructivereconcil
i have a hard time deciphering your meaning because you're incoherent. you write very poorly. your syntax, usage & line of thought are convoluted & pretentious & the result is a LOT of words adding up to ZERO.
instead of posing a bunch of silly "if this than that" polemical questions why don't you provide EVIDENCE of your position? if you really wish to be understood, you can start by EXPLAINING in plain English how an occupied minority can be "imperialists". good luck.
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "start by EXPLAINING in plain English how an occupied minority"
That is very easy. "Palestinian" identity has been a fiction created for the purpose of making a victim group from the last local area to be purged of Jews. Follow the end of WWI &the various promises reneged back & forth, the Jews waiting patiently for their small slice of sovereignty while Islamic sovereigns get theirs. Islamic imperialism drives Palestinian politics. Clear enough?
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@constructivereconcil
crystal. who and what you are is made explicit in this rant.
it's irrational to argue with brick walls, infants, animals or the insane. as i'm not irrational, i'll just end this exchange on this post.
good luck with all that.
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "i'll just end this exchanget"
Whether you're feigning stupidity or truly stupid doesn't matter. I'm perfectly happy to have the conversation rest with your childish confrontation, bravado & collapse for all to see. We both agree: the evidence of who approaches these problems rationally is certainly there to discover by those who approach with patience & objectivity. Since the exact same can be said for the larger scope of its subject, I hope more will follow this example each day.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "EVIDENCE of your position?"
Where would you like me to start? Do you accept that the subject is a man who makes accusations with insufficient evidence. Now I am to prove he has no evidence? How do I do that without seeing any to discuss? You need to start with the evidence you suppose to be valid. Do you not understand this you pretentious silly person? Don't blame me for your lack of comprehension. In theory, you could be right, but it may simply be over your head.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "instead of posing a bunch of silly"
Your highly-emotional subjective remarks are a waste of time. Look in the mirror, perhaps look for a role model of someone you admire rather than trying to insult people who make you feel stupid.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "the palestinians have the moral upper hand"
Only if you believe all of the lies and none of the truth. Evidence? You have none for your accusations. All you have is a list of people that support people like Finkelstein and his persecution of Israelis for overshadowing his own sense of victim-hood. You don't understand that Finkelstein has PTS from the Holocaust. His problem with Israel is personal. Bigots exploit him, when he really just needs therapy. I say that with no sarcasm.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "how ironic" coda suggests you're attempting to frame the argument"
The irony is people who name a show after the supposed pursuit of "true" democracy while working against it. Democracy is a pursuit & we should always strive for perfection, & that doesn't mean we should just accept any claims uncritically, based on popular (pure democracy?) acceptance rather than facts. Lying by omission is all Finkelstein does, & bigots & dupes take him literally. What a shame for democracy.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@c that's a lot of projection & rationalization. democracy is indeed POPULAR opinion & the will of the PUBLIC. if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation of international law, treaties & conventions based on the available EVIDENCE (pretending israel doesn't go out of its way to present its own interpretation of events when the gov't engages in a pr policy DESIGNED to "explain" facts- HASBARA- is disingenuous.) THAT IS DEMOCRACY.
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation..."
More evidence of the Islamic imperialist projects funded by Saudi Arabian oil wealth tithing is moving along just fine,
manipulating gullible people like you. That's why there's no global popular vote on matters of justice. Even if there was, you'd then need the equivalent of the human rights liberal democracies use to impede pure democracy taking away some (nation's?) reputation unjustly.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@Tung "THAT IS DEMOCRACY"
What you just said in effect was, evidence shmevidence, never mind all that, it's really democracy because (in your opinion), lots of people hate Israel & believe the evidence is a non-issue regardless of whether there's valid evidence, never mind all that technical stuff since we feel we're right? And that's democracy? In theory, you have SOME of the elements while ignoring my key point: evidence vs myths. You're a little bitchy myth whore. Show me the evidence.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "democracy is indeed POPULAR opinion & the will of the PUBLIC"
Not nearly precise enough. You're trying to skate over the issue. My point is more than just the fact that you have not pointed to any specific population or entities that could be counted, the point is that accusations require meeting specific standards of evidence. If a jury unanimously votes to convict someone before the trial starts, will you claim that's democratic too? I think by your explanation you would.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation of international law, treaties & conventions based on the available EVIDENCE"
You'd have to try to argue that specifically. There are theories, fine, but you didn't say "in theory." You started attacking me because I pointed out that Mr. Finkelstein does not use an objective approach in presenting his analysis. I'm sure he as a few times but as a rule, he's purely emotion & rhetoric.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "(pretending israel doesn't go out of its way to present its own interpretation of events when the gov't engages in a pr policy DESIGNED to "explain" facts- HASBARA- is disingenuous.)"
Oh NOW I get it. You are some freak that thinks you can read people's minds. So really, I stumbled on to a conversation you're having with yourself, & I just got confused because you integrated some delusional remarks about me in to your internal dialog. I'll just clear up a few things for the others.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung
"if the majority of nations perceive israel's ACTIONS as being criminal & in violation of international law, treaties & conventions based on the available EVIDENCE...THAT IS DEMOCRACY"
In theory, you've stated elements of what we might call, what I might call organic elements of democracy. The democracy I'm talking about is the United States & the Western liberal democracies, which I was very clear about. Not a very good try, but I realize YOU only need to impress yourself.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@constructivereconcil
what is most decidedly NOT democracy is a JEWISH state.
any attempt to rationalize an ethno-religious state for one ethno-religious group as democratic is dishonest & hypocritical.
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@WikeddTung
JEws are a NATION and the word "Jew" comes from the KINGDOM of JUDAH!Our nation founded its own religion, which other people who decided to become Christians or Muslims decided to copy to one extent or another,even using our Hebrew books to base them on to a certain extent. The State of Israel is the national homeland of the Jewish nation, as well as the country of all its citizens, 26% of whom are not Jews. Just as the German homeland has many Turkish and Jewish citizens as well.
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla sounds great.
than the solution to the issue seems to be to incorporate the west bank & gaza into one truly democratic state called israel with an arab majority voting for its own interests (like whether and where they can BUILD THEIR OWN HOMES) alongside the jewish minority voting for its own interests as well. that's what a democracy like germany, the UK, the US and all other modern, secular, western democracies look like.
so what's the problem?
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@WikeddTung
The SOLUTION is for the whole world,especially the MUSLIM world,to accept and respect Israel as the JEWISH STATE first!Only then can all the rest of the issues be dealt with THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS!That is Netanyahu's position!But the other side, led by Abbas, have made it crystal clear that they will never accept Israel as the JEWISH STATE and hence it is Islam, not Israel, that is the problem here! It is Islam that has to accept Israel for there to be peace, not the other way around!
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla "The SOLUTION is for the whole world,especially the MUSLIM world,to accept and respect Israel as the JEWISH STATE first!"
fine, so who said it isn't? i go back to my original comment: what your "jewish" state most decidedly is NOT, again, is a DEMOCRACY. we can go in circles with this. ultimately you can't have it both ways.
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "fine, so who said it isn't? i go back to my original comment: what your "jewish" state most decidedly is NOT, again, is a DEMOCRACY. we can go in circles with this. ultimately you can't have it both ways"
You admit you use circular logic? Progress...
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla "The SOLUTION is for the whole world,especially the MUSLIM world,to accept and respect Israel as the JEWISH STATE first!"
He knows, he just tries to blame the victim because he has to conform to the hypocritical ideology of the people who raised him in Berkeley.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla "The SOLUTION is for the whole world,especially the MUSLIM world,to accept and respect Israel as the JEWISH STATE first!"
How do you like these fucking hypocrites who have no problem with Iran, Saudi Arabia, and others who have their Islamic theocracies, but Jews in or near the uma must be dhimmis, and this demand is considered democracy by this moron because he asked the world and most of them agree with "mr. wikedd."
Never mind that they lie endlessly about Jewish history too.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung
Also, second point. Your statement seems to ASSUME that ARabs are the majority west of the Jordan river, which is NOT YET the case! The most recent demographic estimates are that JEws are about 5.8 million, while non-Jews (mostly Arabs) are 5.5 million west of the Jordan river. So as of right now, JEws are the MAJORITY in ISrael, Judah, Samaria, etc. That may change in a few short years, but NOT YET. So please get your basic facts straight first!
JBGodzilla 5 months ago
@J lol. the point is demographics are CLEARLY an issue & THE SINGLE BIGGEST obstacle to israel EVER being a real democracy. arabs may not outnumber jews in the region yet, but at the current rate of procreation on BOTH sides, they soon will be. for this reason it's imperative for israel to ETHNICALLY CLEANSE the region of arabs in order to keep up the pretense of "democracy" without having to actually be one. otherwise it's an APARTHEID. you want a jewish state? have it. it's NOT a democracy.
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "the point is demographics are CLEARLY an issue & THE SINGLE BIGGEST obstacle to israel EVER being a real democracy. arabs may not outnumber jews in the region yet, but at the current rate of procreation on BOTH sides"
You're worried about future demographics, & democracy, you want to represent the majority of the future? This sounds like central planning & socialism now. Make up your mind. Oh yeah, Communists claim to also believe in "democracy." There are so many flavors of it...
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "THE SINGLE BIGGEST obstacle to israel EVER being a real democracy"
Too bad the Western nations emancipated the African slaves, which means they had to abandon real democracy. Oh well, African slaves in the United States and Jewish dhimmis must be maintained to have democracy I guess. Er, that's Real DemocracyTM (it seems).
Thanks for reminding us mr. wikedd.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "that's what a democracy like germany, the UK, the US and all other modern, secular, western democracies look like"
That's what it would look like in the Middle East if not for Islamic Jihad, AKA Islamic imperialism.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "than the solution to the issue seems to be to incorporate the west bank & gaza into one truly democratic state called israel with an arab majority voting for its own interests (like whether and where they can BUILD THEIR OWN HOMES) alongside the jewish minority voting for its own interests as well. that's what a democracy like germany, the UK, the US and all other modern, secular, western democracies look like.
so what's the problem?"
Jewish minority? No. You miss the point.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@JBGodzilla "JEws are a NATION and the word "Jew" comes from the KINGDOM of JUDAH!Our nation founded its own religion, which other people who decided to become Christians or Muslims decided to copy to one extent or another,even using our Hebrew books to base them on to a certain extent. The State of Israel is the national homeland of the Jewish nation, as well as the country of all its citizens, 26% of whom are not Jews. Just as the any other."
AGREED, plus more I added separately.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
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@WikeddTung "what is most decidedly NOT democracy is a JEWISH state"
In the context of what it replaced, it's the only justice possible. That is why it was generally supported by all democracies until the Islamic imperialists began their campaign to deceive the new baby boomer idiots during the Cold War.
So, you must really hate those Islamic republics I suppose? I'd like to see just how consistent you are.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "any attempt to rationalize an ethno-religious state for one ethno-religious group as democratic is dishonest & hypocritical"
You must really hate Affirmative action and the earlier emancipation of the slaves in the West, specifically in the American Civil War. Civil rights must be absolutely blind, right? It can't even acknowledge ethnicity. This is your theory?
Hypocritical? Now that you mention it, let's see how consistent you are.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "repeated human rights violations & crimes"
Let's start with your evidence, since you made the first claim.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
I'll go slow. I said, "Norm Finkelstein has divided the politics of Israel in to the radicals on one side and the establishment on the other."
Is that part clear? Generally we're talking about typical political divisions, left vs right, Islam vs. the West, "Liberal" vs. "those supporting liberal democracy & due process." That kind of division. Now I'm not yet ready to offer evidence because you indicated a lack of comprehension.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
Next statement, "He lives or dies on the question of Israel."
This was poetic license, with so few characters, some like me try to balance content and clarity, but because you asked nicely, I'm going to help you step through the confusion.
What I would have said was that his *extreme* position or political platform really rests on whether his positions are defensible with the facts. It "lives or dies" because it's all or nothing IMO.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
3) "If the Palestinian national movement is legitimate and morally equal to the liberal democracies of the United States and Israel, then he's a hero."
IOW, if (*IF*) his claims are all supported by the facts vis-a-vis the theory of Palestinians being a persecuted minority with no faults of their own, then Finkelstein has rallied many people & groups behind this issue with lots of emotion as well. Facts matter & he gets people angry.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
4) "Whatever they gain from being considered morally equal is assisted by him"
I'm simply adding to the statement that he has built a strongly emotional case for the morally superior position of the "Palestinians" as the "persecuted minority" theory you acknowledged.
I hope you're going to respond to these with sincerity since I've taken the extra time you requested.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "i'm unsure what point you're trying to make"
5) "If they are not morally equal, then Finkelstein helps fight against Liberal democracy."
IOW, I've recapped my statements to remind that the evidence is not exactly conclusive, since it's rarely been presented in a rational, neutral, methodical probing manner. I often hear sarcasm that can be taken literally be some but then backed off from because nobody can demand proof.
Also, Israel & the USA are liberal democracies.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung
6) "If they are not morally equal, then Finkelstein helps fight against Liberal democracy. How ironic"
1 of the favorite venues of Mr. Finkelstein is the program "Democracy Now" & both the USA & Israel (as liberal democracies) are constantly attacked as unjust in their dealings with a supposed persecuted minority that has no pretensions of any interest in democracy that I know of. I could be wrong of course. There's also the clean hands doctrine etc, lots of issues are ignored.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@constructivereconcil
You never see Finkelstein or Chomsky on Fox News or any of the MSM networks, that's because they are controlled by the Zionists!
petersz98 5 months ago
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@petersz
"You never see Finkelstein or Chomsky on Fox News or any of the MSM networks, that's because they are controlled by the Zionists!"
You're joking, right? Don't you realize that Israel itself has as much opposition among Jews in the diaspora as it has supporters? They don't want the persecution to get worse with all of the hysterical lies about supposed "war crimes" (that never have any evidence).
Whatever. You're one of the "water poison" freaks I guess. Look it up.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung
I want to also point out that this venue here is not ideal for communications, compromises are made, & I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you sincerely want to hear more clearly what I was saying. I see evidence to the contrary as well, so time will tell, I'm sure. Try to be a bit more humble rather than making inappropriate demands as though you too are a victim. This is what I find so repugnant from this whole angry group, this self-declared victim-hood of you & others.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung "how ironic" coda suggests you're attempting to frame the argument with a decidedly pro-israel pov"
I think it's suspicious that you immediately need to label me "pro Israeli" for suggesting that the evidence is hard to find & for questioning why the benefit of the doubt is granted to what at best can be described as a glorified crime family along the lines of a Mafia family, who have morally superior position to the liberal democracies on the basis of purely emotional arguments.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
@WikeddTung
The Greeks, Kurds and Armenians recently sought out Israeli advice on how to shoot up a boatload of Turks.
rachelgolem 5 months ago
@rachelgolem lol, you're a funny jew!
WikeddTung 5 months ago
@Bolshevik71 "Soon 'turkey' will be Free KURDISTAN"
That would be justice for sure.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
israel is a terror state and turkey is a genocidal fascist state...maybe that is the reason why they have been close allies during the last decades ...
ArmenianHolocaust 5 months ago
Im Turkish and I dont support these provocation from Turkeys side. Turkish people have their own problems. Israel has always been a friend, a better friend than the arab world. Yes Israel has its mistakes but Israel is in a position where all the Arabs want to exterminate all jews. I appologize to all Jewish people here.
erdal0 5 months ago
@erdal0 The problem is erdogan, you need to replace your prime minister urgent and his all party too.
mor370 5 months ago
@erdal0
I wish I could shake your hand.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
ISRA'HELL IS THE CANCER OF THE PLANET !!!
thankyouallah33 5 months ago
Basically, if a report tells the facts, and is a LITTLE bit in Israel's advantage, it's an outrage. At the same time hundreds of muslims are being murdered by other muslim "brothers"... Of course this is of no importance, proving a factual report wrong is more important.
polridi 5 months ago
@polridi You must read news reports from a variety of perspectives. You sound too rational to be arguing with idiots on youtube. This also makes you a fascist by their definition.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
It's pathetic to see how those who don't like to see a single word of criticism toward Israel ever being voiced, in their efforts to dismiss Falkenstein and his report to the UN, for lack of any substantive criticism resorting to ad-hominem characterization of him as a "false jew" and a "quasi intellectual". A perfect bitter-loser strategy, only goes to show you for what you truly are - bitter and hateful trolls that are feeding on insults and affronts.
Antoshik81 5 months ago
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@Antoshik81 "It's pathetic to see how those who don't like to see a single word of criticism toward Israel ever being voiced"
No, the only thing I ever argue for is applying the same standards to all. Chomsky & Finkelstein lie about Islam. Period. There are crimes that flow from this fact, but the root problem is their defense of Islamic Jihadis as supposed victims, just like the Communists were "victimized" by the West.
"United in Hate" and "Dupes" are imperfect but enlightening books.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
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When so anti-Israeli biased institute such as UN issues report in favor of Israel...
IDK...
It's like if the God himself spoke from the skies and said:" Israel is right!"
StangeWorld0000 5 months ago
@mrmickyed
according to your logic, or rather a complete lack of it,
you may as well say that at the end of 1939 Germany was the only "normal" country in Europe.
noprincessa 5 months ago
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@noprincessa "according to your logic, or rather a complete lack of it,
you may as well say that at the end of 1939 Germany was the only "normal" country in Europe."
How is that? He didn't imply any logic. That was just a bottom line sentiment with the assumption (both mine and his) that people who have read the comments will understand his point. I know I do.
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
Finkelstein rules. Thanks for this excellent report.
Cornucopiaification 5 months ago 2
FUCK DIIIIMOCRACY
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kuzzekerri 5 months ago
@kuzzekerri
At least you're honest. These fucking Islamic imperialist dupes try to tell us that Israel and the West are NOT real democracies because we or they abandoned *pure* "real democracy" for the sake of human rights. Phooey!
constructivereconcil 5 months ago
Having norman finklestien a false jew puppet of Iran and some arab from Palestine in a discussion called democracy now LOLLL what bullshit.
kavkazip 5 months ago
@kavkazip at least he is telling the world that not all jews are permitting what Israel does to the Palestine. He is bringing good especially to the jews community in the eyes of the world. you religion teaches you to do that, so what wrong with it?
hidupjuang 5 months ago