I see, so the propaganda lives on. I'm sure maps were drawn in 1919, but who did the drawing? The soviets (agents in Finland or otherwise) for "evidence", Bolsheviks or ultra-nationalists in Finland?
What the hell is this shit.. I don't get it. =D How is it possible that in a country like Russia, there still is some media people who think this is trueXD Really what the hell. It all began when Russia shelled their own troops and then blamed Finns.
Yeah right.. There are megalomaniacs in every country. Even today there are nazi supporters in many countries. But does this marginal minority justify an all-out war when these people have absolutely no influence in that country's political decision making?! Should China invade the US because there are neo-nazis in the US?
this does not suprise me. Russians have allways seen them self as a "master nation" and very often belived finns to be pesants. russia and usa both have their superpower image to defend. they cant be show to be invaiders.
why finland would attack russia that dosen't make sense how the fuck finland could attack russia with no weapons or equipment we only had some old supon-planes and only one working tank with broken gun?
Umm... There actually are some pictures about jailing Karelians but all of them were manipulated. Why should we jail our own people? And do you say that it is illegal to keep POWs in concentration camps? When Russians surrender, where we put them then? At least we didn't kill them unlike Soviets did. XD And we did not kill any Soviet civilians UNLIKE Russians did to us even BEFORE the war. Check video: "Soviet partisans in Finland 1941-1944."
@PatriaFinlandia Kyllähän punakaartin entiset jäsenet, ja punaiset ylipäänsä vietiin löydettäessä keskitysleireille, kärsivät siellä jonkin aikaa, mutta muuten en usko että suomalaisia siviilejä olisi vangittu koskaan sillä tavalla kotimaassaan.
No ne onkin sitten asia erikseen, mutta toi tyyppi väitti että me oltais pidetty karjalaisia ja venäläissotilaita keskitysleireillä. Karjalaisia ei pidetty, mutta minne me venäläiset olis sitten laitettu =D
We had no choice but to defend our country. Russians wanted to take of our little country, as did Estonia Latvia and Lithuania, although they had the land even though the whole world needs. All the people still do not understand what kind of warriors in Finland grew
Too bad those fucking Finns fought in that war. If our grandfathers wouldnt have done that someone might actually believe this. Concentration camps.. seriously? :D
Yea..plans to attack USSR. With our 30 WW1 tanks of which only 1 was battle-ready. Rest were used as bunker-cannons. With our vast air force of WW1 fighters. With our 50-year-old artillery, which was able to fire a round for every 80 rounds USSR fired. With our AT weapons, which were forced to lend to different places from different fronts because of huge lack of them.
How can anyone ignore these statistics and accuse Finland for attacking? Dosent common sense mean anything to you? Guess not...
Nursing plans agains the bolsheviks? Oh, come on! We have a thousand years of history of fights agains the Russians. We never needed bolsheviks to be feared of. And a 3 million nation would never in her wildest dreams attack a 150 million neighbour! That's jus ridiculous propaganda. Soviets, or err... mmm... Russians, I mean - GROW UP!
Some russophilia indeed. I want to think that russians and finns could live in piece. But becouse russians are so freaking asshole we must beat them again. And this time for sure.
Lol, what shit is this? Because russia screw up their conquest, they shouldn't blame finns of it. Russians are N00Bs,,, i mean, they succeed to kill someone. lol. Dead Finns? some. Dead russians from Siberia killed by their own nation? many....
Finland planned a war against Soviet Union? Hah! Sure there were nationalists who dreamed to join the areas of Finnish speaking tribes from Sweden, Norway and Russia into Finland.
But ths had nothing to do with the Finland's politics! The Soviet Union of 1939 was a superpower with mechanized army, and Finland was a dwarf with ill equipped army! Anyone thinking Finland wanted to atteack, is a nut cake! 1939 Finland wasn't even allied with Germany, it was Stalin who secretly alled with Hitler!
During the cival war there was talks about uniting both Finnish and Soviet KArelia. During the continuation war they escorted the Germans as far as the boarder.
The Finnish Civil War is also a War of Independence from Russia! During that war, the Finnish White Guard was fighting Russians IN Finland. The Russians supported the Finnish Red Guard openly. Nationalist circles saw there an opportunity to merge the Finnish speaking peoples into the same nation, and even some VOLUNTEER GROUPS made couple of expeditions to Russia, but the STATE OF FINLAND was not supporting this!
The Continuation War followed the Winter War. Stalin started it, his army was defeated in the Winter War, but he kep pressuring Finland and preparing a new attack. Everyone in Finland knew it would come! The Soviets went to Germany and told they would attack Finland, but Germans said:to Soviets not to do it, and leaked this to Finns. The Soviets and the Germans had a secret PLAN to divide Europe, and they were following the plan, too, and Finland was in it given to the Soviets!
Go to hell, tatar-bred vodka nigger. All of northern "russia" belongs to finno-ugric peoples. You are mongrels promoting a bogus imperialist identity as a "nationality". In reality, russia is just a hodgepodge of ukrainians/finno-ugrics/khazar jews/tatars assimilated in more or less varying combinations.
How does the bread taste there in karelia, invader? That grain has been fertilized with your fallen invader brethren, dead by our hand. Does the flesh of your own kind taste good?
@ZimoP And Finland is a mix of savolaiset, hämäläiset, pohjalaiset, suomalaiset etc. etc. tribes who have just for historical reasons been brought together under the flag of being "finnish". And when national borders are drawn in areas where people of different ethnicities have been living peacefully it's rarely possible to draw them without there being lots of people who end up living in the "wrong side" of the border.
Not saying that CCCP/Russia has dealt fairly with Finland though.
Ystävä hyvä siinä on pieni ero. Venäjä ihan kansanmurhaan perustuva jatkuvasti laajentunut imperiumi. Suomi on kielellisesti/historiallisesti érittäin läheisten heimojen liitosta muodostunut edunvalvoja, puolustaa meidän kaikkien etua ulkoisia laajentumishaluisi vihollisia, kute Venäjää vastaan, ja lähinnä Venäjää meidä tapauksessa.
Venäjä o pysynyt pystyssä puhtaasti väkivallalla. Epämääräinen muhennos täysin erilaisia ihmisryhmiä valtavalla alueella.jotka haluaa itsenäiseksi.
Sen takia suomen kaltaisia valtioita kutsutaan KANSALLISvaltioiksi, Venäjä on se vastakkainen ääripää eli multietninen liittovaltio. Tosiaan rajoja on vedetty täysin mielivaltaisesti kansallisvaltion periaatteiden vastaisesti kaikkialla, kuten vaikka meillä karjalassa. Koko Karjalan pitäisi olla Suomen puolella.
Ruotsalaiset ja venäläiset pilkkoi meidät kahtia protestanttiseen ja ortodoksiseen leiriin, surullista.
Interesting how this video "forgets" to mention that Soviet Union started the hostilities also in the Continuation War by bombing finnish cities in summer 1941. Finland declared war on Soviet Union after that.
Winter war is too well known so that someone would believe this, but unfortunately this propaganda channel makes a lot of vids and some of them are liked. There are some parts of history that are lesser known to the world for example Baltic nations occupation, Chechnya occupation and this channel succeeds in brainwashing sometimes....
Winter war is too well known so that someone would believe this, but unfortunately this propaganda channel makes a lot of vids and some of them are liked. There are some parts of history that are lesser known to the world for example Baltic nations occupation, Chechnya occupation and this channel succeeds in brainwashing sometimes....
well i guess you cant admit any flaw. we finns for instance are SHAMED of the soviet prisoners that died in continution war. and even more shamed we are of those who died becose of murder. we have no superpower syndrome. the territory gained in winterwar did not do any difrence. but big countries allwasy spouting bullshit.
@VChapaev Hang on, "_Finnish_ hordes"?! How do you get a horde from a country of ~4,000,000 (est. populaton of Finland around 1939)?
And the the Finland took no official stance in the so called Tribal Wars that you mentioned.
As for the conspiracy that Finland would have joined Germany in a war against USSR anyway, I suggest you take a look at our military readiness in 1930's and take into account for the fact that we built the Mannerheim Line instead of arming the army....
@Dimdim316 That was a fraud enacted by the bolsjeviks to give Stalin an excuse to invade Finland. The Finns were badly equipped and not prepared enough for a war, especially against the Soviet Union. Do you really think they would give the soviets an excuse to invade?
@Dimdim316 As far as I know, the current evidence uncovered by both Finnish and Russian historians says that the "Shots of Mainila", that the USSR used as an excuse to the war, were fired by Soviet mortars, from Soviet side, to an empty field. No casualties were reported in the Leningrad military district (I hope I remembered that name correctly), until the conflict truly began.
So in other words: it was as fraud as the German operation earlier the same year to start the war with Poland.
@funkulankula Well, we did conquer most of Karjala that wasn't our land, but there was a reason for it. It was meant to be something that we could bargain with, come peace, so that we would be able hold on to our 1920 border that we had agreed upon with the Soviets (and in the same agreement was the non-agression pact that the Soviets "conviniently" were able to denounce because of Mainila, even though it was extended in 1932 to last until 1945).
Russian state controlled media again; changing subject to make the Soviet invasion look good with revisionist Russian historian and sad stories of Finnish internment camp from an old lady. Finland would not have attacked the Soviet Union hadn't the Soviet Union attacked Finland - WITH WHAT would Finland have attacked the Soviet Union? Drawing the issue of internment camps to this is also changing subject. The camps were for enemy citizens (enemy aliens), and people weren't sent in them to die.
@vonVince People dying in the internment camps did happen, the question is, were those people murdered by intentionally giving them too little food? The answer to that question is no. So why did they die? The answer to that question is the low quality and small amount of available food? Why was the quality and amount so bad? The simple answer to that is the bad harvest, which forced everybody to use for food even those stuff which would have in normal situation used for some other things.
@vonVince Even Finns suffered from food problems akin to internment camps. Due to loss of fertilizer imports and fifth of arable land (Karelia in Winter War) the food situation in Finland was difficult. Although some fo the needed grain and foodstuff was bought from Germany, Finland was still on the brink of faminy at 1941. When most of the working age males were serving in Finnish military, there was even a shortage of labor. In statistics there was also an increase in Finnish deaths.
If you had no enough food,you shouldn't lock innocent women and children in concentration camps only because of their nationality.That's just like your friend Adolf was doing with the nationalities he didn't like.As for possibility of finnish atack on USSR,I believe WW2 proved that it might happened. However in USSR of 1939 was fear not of Finland,but of some third country who could use finnish territory to atack Russia.Watch soviet documentary "Mannerheim line"1940
@Raven30101979 Good to see a guy who's Youtube avatar is a communist soldier killing Finnish soldier - that's stuff. That's just like your friend Adolf was doing with the nationalities he didn't like." No. "you shouldn't lock innocent women and children in concentration camps only because of their nationality." An legal act - enemy aliens; citizens of enemy nation. All nations interned enemy aliens during World War II. No one - not even Stalin - ever sentenced Finnish for it.
@Raven30101979 "As for possibility of finnish atack on USSR,I believe WW2 proved that it might happened. " After Stalin first attacked Finland and pulled Finland into WW2 when he Stalin and Hitler cut Europe like pizza"Watch soviet documentary "Mannerheim line"1940" That's not a documentary; it's a Stalin time propaganda movie about Soviet Union against Finland.
What you talking about? USSR didn't lock finnnish civilians in concentration camps in 1939-40.Only finns commited such crimes during WW2.It's a war crime,and your leaders like Ryti deserved to be enjailed after the war.As for "Mannerheim line",it's explain soviet view on events.As for territory USSR got in 1939-40,like western Ukraine and Belarus and Bessarabia,this land was stolen from us in 1918-20,so we had any right to take it back.
@Raven30101979 Oh you didn't lock civilians in concentration camps? You might want to ask Estonians, Latvians, Liethuanians, Poles, Germans and, hell, your own countrymen.
Now it is true that few if any finns ever ended up in those camps, but that's only because they were able to leave their generations old homes and flee to main Finland. And no, "Mannerheim Line" is a propaganda movie, that's sole purpouse is to make USSR look better, after such a humiliation at hands of such a small nation.
@Arkticus Indeed. Russia Today is a nice tv channel with some independence and non-controlled opinions. But this piece is too pro-Soviet and too mythological on the conflicts of the imperialistic-communistic USSR.
We never locked people in the concentration camps because of nationality,like finns did.It was genocide,commited by finnish fascists against russian speaking civilians,mostly women and children.USSR had camps as well,but only those who was hostile to the regime were sent there.
@Raven30101979 .....so,it's okay for the Soviets to lock up people because they are (or are not) Soviet citizens (or citizens of any nation), but when somebody else does it, it's genocide?
Double standard. Read about it.
Oh, and we were just as much nazi or fascist as USSR was democratic. Doesn't mean that we didn't have those idiots as well, but it's short sighted and...well, judgemental to say the least, to asume that the rest of the poulation whole heartetly agreed with them.
Learn what word "genocide" means! All nations had camps during the WW2.But only finns locked there civillians on the occupied territory only because of their nationality.If you trying to exterminate russians only because they are russians or jews only because they are jews,this is genocide!
Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"
-Wikipedia
Soviets also locked people in camps through out their occupied terrotories because of their nationality (see my previous message for a list), and you say that that was not genocide, but when Finns did it, it is!
@Raven30101979 Further more, you used the word "genocide" first, I merely pointed out that you also locked civilians in camps. Here's another word you might want to check out:
A prisoner of war (POW, PoW, PW, P/W, WP, PsW) or enemy prisoner of war (EPW) is a person, whether civilian or combatant, who is held in custody by an enemy power during or immediately after an armed conflict.
-Wikipedia
The Russians who we put to camps were POW's, unlike in the Baltics that "joined" USSR without a war.
Did USSR put in camps ALL citisens of Baltic rupublics?No,just few thousands who were enemies of regime,and it prevented revolt after germans invaded.And most of them survived the war perfectly well.
@Raven30101979 Finns locked ALL russian civillians you could capture, in the camps.And you put there ONLY russians,not karelians or other north nationalities.Those people were doomed to die if Red Army wouldn't defeat you.Only reason why you didn't send them to the ovens,like your german masters used to do is your worrying about public opinion in USA and UK.
@Raven30101979 I don't know what kind of fantasy-crossover fiction book you have been forced to swallow, but: There was no "extermination" of Russians perpitrated by the Finns! Only the Germans eagerly followed the false biology of the nazi ideology, while we respected the international laws concerning prisoners of war. Also, we did actually imprison people of the ethnic minorities, not only slavic peoples.
@Raven30101979 Further more, the only plan that we ever had for these people was to exchange them with the Germans for people of these afore mentioned minorities, but even that never happened.
And no, I'm not deying the fact that many people died even in our camps, however the reasons for them were the unusual age structure (most were elders or children), our small food reserves that somewhat were enough for our own people, and the hard work that these people did.
I don't think finns died of starvation like russian children in your camps.As for the our territory you wanted to steal,I'll remind you words of Ryti,he said 11.09.1941 to german ambassador:"If Peterburg will not exist,Neva would be a ideal border of Finland"And please don't tell that you renamed our towns,like Petrozavodsk to Jaaslina,just for better bargaining with USSR.Nobody renames towns if he doesn't plan to stay in it.
@Raven30101979 Key word: "think". True, I can't prove you wrong without detailed reports of those camps, but your claims are equally unprovable.
And as for "stealing", again you an asumbtion, with what you "think" as evidence.
Of course we were being nice to the Germans, just like USSR was licking the western butt after Barbarossa started, to get military aid.As for naming, many towns on our borders have had both a russian as well as a finnish or karelian name.
@Raven30101979 Granted, Petroskoi did not have such a dual name prior -41, but it was one the few that had it's name changed. And if you think that indicates that we planned to stay, well, go ahead. But maybe we just didn't want the capital of Karjala to have a name of "Peter's factory".
Primarily these lands were meant as barganing ground, though I do not doubt that had the possibility risen, we would have happily kept Äänislinna and the whole Karjala.
@Raven30101979 Correction: Russians living in occupied areas. However, the reason for the imprisonment of the Japanese-Americans and Russians were to a large extent the same: they were considered as citizens of an hostile enemy nation, and the possibility of infiltrators, partisans and other sorts of operatives was judged too high, so they were made POW's with their families. There are of course other reasons, such as keeping check of the population, etc.that are understandable during a conflict
When Petrozavodsk became an area occupied by USSR?! Those actions just shown that USSR was more civilised than Finland,we didn't torture you civillians in 1939-40.War is business for men,children and women shouldn't suffer.
@Raven30101979 "Those actions just shown that USSR was more civilised than Finland" first off i agree on your point that noone should suffer but hey Gulags, heard about those before? there was plenty of those during the years 1939-1940
@Raven30101979 ...I guess you missundestood me. My reply meant that we put Russian POW's to our camps who lived in areas that were occupied Finland. Then again, you DID occupy areas such as Petsamo, Viipuri and the rest of Finnish Karjala that was our terriotory since 1917.
Also, if your going to bring torture in to this, I recommend that you get some pretty hard evidence to show that such actions were deilberate purely on the basis of nationality, and that such things did not occure in USSR.
@Raven30101979 Of course, there is the fact that we got the majority of our citizens out of Karjala (some 400,000 IIRC) during the early winter of 1939, and again successfully moved the re-setteled citizens in 1944. This in part explains why there were no need for camp during USSR's occupation of our Karjala.
As I recall, no such movements of your citizens occured, thus they became POW on occupied land.
Actually,what you call Petsamo is originally russian town Pechenga,which had never belonged to Finland untill you used civil war in Russia and stole it.As for discrimination,I'd advise you to read what finnish historian Petiola wrote about it.He describes how all russian POW were treated according to their nationality.
If for you giving away territory,paying reparations and injailing your leaders by the Stalin order means "winning",we have different positions about what victory is.:)
@Raven30101979 Do you think that s small countrys definition of victory when a more than 100 times bigger country attacks, is that it forces the superpower to surrender? Gosh you're so stupid...
Well if you call humiliation u suffered in 1940 and 1944-a victory,go ahead.I wouldn't call giving away territory,paying reparations and injailing own leaders by enemy order(Ryti and others) a victory.
@Raven30101979 I wouldnt call it a humiliation. Finnish: 63,204 dead or missing 158,000 wounded 939 civilians in air raids 190 civilians by Soviet partisans 2,377–3,500 captured German: 14,000 dead or missing 37,000 wounded Total 275,000 casualties USSR: 200,000 dead or missing 385,000 wounded 190,000 hospitalized due to sickness 64,000 captured 4,000–7,000 civilian deaths Total 650,000 casualties The red army was completely ripped apart. (Again..)
Germany was the attacker, USSR the defender (in this case...). It doesnt matter how great the defenders casualties are, if they keep their block the attacker. Finland managed to block the impossible seeming foe with even very low casualties which is a great achievement.
Finlands army proved to be a lot better, than the USSR's and kept Finland independence. It was a defencive victory for Finland, if you know what that means?
@kaahaajaFIN Yes sure! In 1941 you atacked us trying to save your independence:) You wanted to steal our land but as result you were humiliated.As for 1939-40,our goal was not to capture Finland,but to move border from Leningrad and we achieved it more than we offered you before the war.So,who won both wars?
@Raven30101979 First of all, learn your history. It is common knowledge, that the USSR started the continuation war by bombing finnish civilian targets. Homes. Killed lots of civilians. And I wouldnt say, that gaining all of our stolen territory back, is a humiliation :) How can you call the lands you stole in the winter war, your land?
@Raven30101979 And please stop that BS. Your goal was just to move your border a little bit further...
Haha what a poor joke. It is common knowledge that there was a secret protocol in the molotov-ribbentrop pact, which declared which areas the USSR would get to capture without German interference. Those areas included atleast: Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Half of Poland, Hungary, Ukraine, Romania and Bulgary. So what did you say about just getting some space between the border and leningrad ; )
Lies! In june 1941 we bombed not civillian targets,but airfields,which were used to atack our cities.Unfortunately some bombs fell on houses,but it was not a target.Second,how you will explain that finnish submarines were placing mines in russian waters from 22of June 1941 having order to atack any our ship they will meet?And if we agreed to take Romania and Bulgaria,why we didn't do it? Yes we took Bessarabia and western Ukraine and Belarus,but in was stolen from us in 1918-20
@Raven30101979 Finnish ships didnt lay even a single mine in russian waters. The finnish navy had every right to place mines incase of soviet attack (note that you had bombed finland before this) to its own waters of gulf of Finland. And of course the finnish navy was ordered to attack any enemy ship approaching finnish waters. And oh sorry I read wrong, Bulgaria wasnt mentioned in that secret protocol, but indeed Romanias Bessarabia was promised for the USSR.
As for land we returned in 1940,It was part of russian state from 10th century,when there was no such word as Finland.Remember who let you to use this land in 1811? So after our divorse in 1917 we had any right to take it back!
@Raven30101979 And how can you claim that, that because that area was conquered long ago by russians and then lost again, you had the right for that area? During that era there was unaligned neutral finno-ugric clans/tribes all over the area what we today call as Finland. That area changed its ownership from time to time when the clans fought russian/finnish clans.
@Raven30101979 You are wrong. Open a history book and check how far back Finland goes, given by Swedish people. You had right to take it back? What would have been that right that Soviet-Russia had right to invade independent country? You speak about right when Soviet action was so low. Why did not Soviet-Russia demanded back Karelia if it was so Russian?
@tupakki Lies again! Finns layed mines in soviet waters,near Estonia! 21of june 1941 Finns sent 5000 soldiers to the Aland islands and arrested personal of soviet ambassy there.How will you explain that? And as you see,after returning of Bessarabia,we didn't bother Romania anymore.Same would be with Finland,if you agreed to change a border in autumn 1939.
You said: ''And as you see,after returning of Bessarabia,we didn't bother Romania anymore.Same would be with Finland,if you agreed to change a border in autumn 1939.''
The difference is,that there is an official proof,that USSR:s didnt intend just to take part of Karelia,but whole Finland.Theres written black in white in the paper about that deal In the deal read that USSR would get Bessarabia only and they did get it and also that ussr gets Finland.
@kaahaajaFIN Sorry,I didn't want to delete it.I repeat it for you:)Lies again! Finns layed mines in soviet waters,near Estonia! 21of june 1941 Finns sent 5000 soldiers to the Aland islands and arrested personal of soviet ambassy there.How will you explain that? And as you see,after returning of Bessarabia,we didn't bother Romania anymore.Same would be with Finland,if you agreed to change a border in autumn 1939.
@kaahaajaFIN So,what about soviet ambassy in Aland islands? Why Finland sent troops and arrested staff 21of june? You still telling,that Finland didn't mean to atack USSR in 1941?
@Raven30101979 There might be a chance that the Finnish goverment was preparing for war to take back stolen areas, yes. Who wouldnt want to embark on a heroic mission to fight back your stolen home?
@Raven30101979 So,you agree,that even without bombing 25of june Finland would atack USSR! As for returning of stolen land,I'll remind you words of Ryti,he said to german ambassador 11091941"If Peterburg will not exist,Neva would be perfect border of Finland" and words of Mannerheim,who said,that he will not put down his sword,untill whole Karelia will be conquered.Ambitions of your fuhrers were much higher than returning of land,lost in 1940.They dreamt of great Finland with border in Urals
@Raven30101979 No I ''admit'' nothing... I said that, it wouldnt've been an impossible intention. But guessing what would've happened leads to nowhere. Finland didn't have to start a war to regain its stolen territories, because stupid russians started it themselves. Words of individual ''celebrities'' doesnt count for nothing. Of course there was some random officers who dreamed of ''greater Finland'', but no one in charge didnt want it.
@Raven30101979 You're saying, that Finlands goal was to move the border up to Ural. So, why did the Finnisch troops stop to their old borders, or not far from them? Why did Finland refuse to send troops or supplies to the blockade of Leningrad? Why did Finland refuse Hitlers plea to cut the railroad from Murmansk to Leningrad (the road of life)? If we would've cut that railroad, Leningrad would've fallen in no time, due to lack of food, ammunition, weapons, and men. Think about the big picture..
What r u talking about?! Finns captured and renamed Petrozavodsk.Nobody renames the city if he doesn't plan to stay there.Finns with germans tried to capture island of Suho,on Ladoga lake,in order to cut Road of Life(which was going via Ladoga,not from Murmansk),finns blocked Leningrad from the north.
The reasons why finns didn't try to capture Leningrad are:1.There would be heavy street battles,which finnish army wouldn't stand(like germans got in Stalingrad) and finns couldn't feed millions of civillians if they captured the city(what is very unlikely).
@Raven30101979 As I allready said, Finns didnt halt straight to the old lines, but as a revenge, a little further.
And how many times do I have to tell you, that Finns did not try to cut the road of life, though Hitler asked to do so. And no again, Finns did not block leningrad from north. Finland did not participate in that siege...
Finland didnt particiapte in that siege, because Finland allready got everything they wanted, and with a little extra for the soviet aggression.
And who decided how much russian land Finland had to get as "compensation"? No,Finland captured as much as they could.As for Leningrad blockade,what do you mean,telling that finns didn't participate? They blocked city from the north,they didn't allow to bring food and amunition to defenders.It's 100% participation! Yes, they didn't try to capture it,but only for reasons I explained before.
@Raven30101979 Finlands government decided. Germans continued far far from where Finns stood. Finland could've went with the Germans and gained much much more land, but they didnt. They just wanted old borders back with a little extra so if USSR would attack again, it would be much less hurtful to lose those extra areas, than the original areas. And lies. Everything you said about Leningrad is utter bullshit and not worthy for even an answer. Btw, Leningrad was built by finnish slaves. murderers
@kaahaajaFIN You can give me a link for a source of your information.I mean decission of finnish government where finnish troops schould stop it's advance.Otherwise they would reach Pacific Ocean,wouldn't they?:) And what about Ryti words about border on Neva?Or he wasn't part of finnish government and had no right for such statement? I don't even comment about finnish slaves,who built Leningrad:) Perhaps finns also won for us Kulikovo battle?
@Raven30101979 Also if you want to read how passive Finland was towards the city of Leningrad to Germands. For example you should read a book by Earl F. Ziemke called The German Northern Theater of Operations 1940-1945. Read the pages 428-429.
Also try to Finland what Mannerheim wrote to USA and England about the stopping the advance of Finnish army in December 1941. Then your delusion of that Finnish army would have advanced more deeper Russia if they could, would be over.
@Raven30101979 "Finland captured as much as they could" You are wrong with this. "In December 1941, Mannerheim gave the Finnish army an order to stop the advancement, after which began a period of static warfare, lasting two and a half years. The Finnish troops retained most of eastern Karelia under occupation." Finland stop advancements because of Allied, England and USA. Finland promised to stop when positions were beneficial for Finnish army. As it happened.
@Raven30101979 Once again I can be reading of blockade of Leningrad of Finnish army. How far Finnish army advanced from Tarto borders on the Karelian isthmus during the war of 1941 -1944. You can measure that distance from Border river (Siestarjoki) aka Сестра, Sestra. Please tell me this.
"didn't allow to bring food and amunition to defenders." Are you kidding me? Never heard "the road of life". Finnish army never tried to cut it or close the blockade. Please stay on truth!
I repeat once again,Finland didn't try to capture Leningrad only because finnish army wouldn't stand heavy street battles in the city and if they even manage it they couldn't afford to feed millions of civillians,since you put all russian civillians in concentration camps,you had to do the same with people in Leningrad.That's why finns stoped advance on Karelian isthmus.
@Raven30101979 As for blockade,finns cut White sea-Baltic channel,thus cutting the way of supplies to Leningrad.Also finns and germans tried to capture island of Suho,in order to cut Road of Life.Finns stoped advance because they were unable to capture and defend more land.
@Raven30101979 Oh the Suho operation. Heh heh. Let me tell you something about the Suho operation. It was made only by one general, Talvela. He begged this kind of operation from Germans and he went over Finnish war leaders. That's the reason why this operation is called "The war of Talvela". If this was really intetent of Finnish army. Have you thought why Italians and Germans mainly did this operation and Finnish troops never tried to repeat it?
@tupakki Finns didn't try to repeat Suho operation,because first one in 1942 was finished by their defeat ,so finns didn't want to suffer.Finns wouldn't take Leningrad that easily.Germans broke their teeth in Stalingrad street batlles,same would be with finns in Leningrad.You know what losses germans had there?And even if you loosing half of your army would take Leningrad,how would you feed so many civillians in your concentration camps?
@Raven30101979 You don't need to know a real story behind the Suho operation. I already briefly explained it for you. You can also find more information if you are interested. Finnish soldiers did not repeat it because the operation was not accepted by Finnish war leaders.Only few Finnish soldiers participated, rest were German and Italians. Stalingrad and the situation on Finnish fronts were totally different. Why did you even compare them?Do you know the reason of Finnish camps?
Reason for cams was simple-ethnic cleansing.You put people in the camps only because of nationality.Same you would do in Leningrad,since you wanted border between Finland and Third Reich on Neva.I compare Leningrad and Stalingrad,just to show you what would be if finnish troops managed to reach streets of the city.
@Raven30101979 "You put people in the camps only because of nationality." Soviet Union did same for example like during the Winter War. Finnish army did not do that for all Russian on all areas they got on during the Continuation war. They did that on Russians who lived on old Karelian areas. Most of these Russians were forced to move on Karelia at the first place.Finnish forces did have street fight on streets of Vyborg. Finnish army did NOT have any intentions to go Leningrad
Lies! USSR didn't put finnish civillians in the camps because of their nationality.Are you comparing Vyborg and Leningrad?! Believe me,in Leningrad you would get different street fights,not like you had in Vyborg.Yes,finns didn't want to atack Leningrad,first they wanted all it's defenders and civillians to die of starvation.Nobody was forced to move in Petrozavodsk,russians lived there hundreds of years but you also did ethnic cleansing there.
@Raven30101979 What are lies? Prove me if I am saying lies for you. USSR did put Finnish civilians to camps for example during the Winter War. Also during Stalin purges, the percentages of Finnish people were high who were shot. Finnish troops wouldn't have got any street fights in Leningrad because they never had any plans to attack to the city nor killing people for starvation. You know that area of Petrozavodsk were inhabited by Karelians much before Russians.
You telling me,that all finnish civillians,who lived on teritory taken in 1940 by USSR were sent to camps?! In USSR NOBODY was sent to jail only because of nationality.That's the difference between our countries.Yes,karelians came there before russians,but it was karelians,not finns.Russians and karelians are both orthodox christian,so they lived like brothers for hundreds years.Ryti said clear,that Neva schould be border of Finland,so one way or another you had to take Leningrad.
@Raven30101979 I did not mean that civilians from lost Finnish areas were sent to camps. I said that those civilians who got under soviet soldiers during the Winter War were sent to camps. Women, old men, children etc. Finland did not put all Russians to camps, do not be silly. Only from certain areas. Idea was to keep them briefly and send them back to their home areas where they were from. War got longer and we know what happened. Karelians are "Baltic Finns", many got influence from East.
@Raven30101979 When did Ryti said that? I need to read better what he has been saying. Ryti has indeed said that if Germany win the war, East-Karelia will be Finnish.
Ryti said it 11.09.1941 on the meeting with german ambassador:"If Peterburg will not exist,Neva would be an ideal border of Finland".Sounds pretty clear,isn't it? Just like words of Mannerheim:"I won't put down my sword,untill whole Karelia will be cleared from russians".And where you supposed to send people from Petrozavodsk,who were born there?
@Raven30101979 You have understood wrong what Ryti said. He ment that perfect borders for Finland would be on Neva if Petersburg wouldn't exist but it did. It did not mean that he wanted to destroy it. Also check what Finnish "leaders" said to Ingrians when they wanted independent country at 1918-1920. If you want to talk about Mannerheim's Sword Scabbard Declaration, send me a pm. This textbox is too short for it. To send them there where they were from, from the very beginning.
@Raven30101979 I can briefly comment about Mannerheim's declaration here.He said like this in Finnish: "En pane miekkaani tuppeeni ennen kuin kaikki linnoitukset ovat meidän käsissämme, ennen kuin laillinen järjestys vallitsee maassa, ennen kuin viimeinen Leninin soturi ja huligaani on karkotettu niin hyvin Suomen kuin Vienan Karjalastakin..." I won't holster my sword...until the last Lenin's soldier and hooligan is deported from Finland and Vienna Karelia"Send pm for more details
@tupakki :"If Peterburg will not exist as a big city,Neva would be an ideal border of Finland.PETERBURG SCHOULD BE DESTROYED"That's whole sentence of Ryti.You can find it in the book Siege of Leningrad and Finland.He said it 11.09.1941 when everybody thought that in couple of days Leningrad will fall.
@Raven30101979 Check the source that book has been used for Ryti's statement. If it really a reliable book there is a source list on the back of that book. I want to see this statement by its original form. I really want to read fully what he has been saying. Actually I have heard this statement before with those dates and it's also in Finnish published by very left parties without sources whatsoever. So please give me your source that I can check it.
@Aurinkohirvi I know it is. It was just an example for free Karelia by Mannerheim. He also said said like this in speech number 1. in the start of Continuation war. "Aseveljet! - Seuratkaa minua vielä viimeisen kerran - nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nosee ja sarastaa Suomen huomen." I don't need to translate this to you.
@Raven30101979 Churchill wrote in his diary: "Leningrad is encircled" then sent a letter to Mannerheim requesting that Finnish army should stop harassing the railroads north of Leningrad used for American and British food and ammunition supplies to Leningrad by British and American Arctic convoys." You know why Finland did cut the rairoad? Many of those materials were used against Finnish army and people. As fighter planes from USA etc. Would be mad if they wouldn't.
@Raven30101979 You don't really need to repeat any lies you are saying. War historians have agreed that if Finland would have agreed to advance to the city of Leningrad. Most likely the city would have been fallen. Same assumption have been made by German general Von Manstein. You know him and his role for the city of Leningrad?
"September 2–9: Finns finish the capture of the salients of Beloostrov and Kirjasalo and starts to prepare defences."
@Bajamajattaja Really? Soviet Union wanted to conquer Finland, Finland wanted to stay independent. In the end Finland lost some territory but was still independent, while soviets failed in their war goals. Your definition of winning is just different than mine I guess.
oh horse hockey. the russians may have dumped communism but they still have some left over communist appologists. too bad they still follow the part line of a party that has been given the boot and is discredited. stalin sucked, communism sucked , and tiny little finland beat them both. if stalin had won finland would have vanished like latvia, lithuania and estonia. and the casualties were ten times the party line figures. finland planning to attack the ussr, as stupid as jamaica vs. the usa.
@nlitement Siis myös se että Suomi oli jo kauan suunnitellut hyökkäystä Neukkulaan vaikka rajat oli jo sovittu vuonna 1920 ja maiden välillä oli hyökkäämättömyys sopimus jonka piti kestää vuoteen -45 saakka?
Lisäksi Suomen "concentration camps" vastasit länsi liittoutuneiden interointi leirejä, eivät natsien tai ryssien omia kuoleman loukkuja.
/watch?v=nTEKdUlDLfo
Tuossa linkki uudempaan ja huomattavasti neutraalimpaan uutisointii RT:ltä.
What a heap of propaganda. I've heard before of RT's pro-Soviet bias, but what I see there is just hard to believe - to be so openly pro-Soviet with all the knowledge we've got now? "No innocent victim"? Wanted to attack USSR? Hey, RT, gimme a break!
russia attacked finland
DrakulanOfficial 1 week ago in playlist Fler videoklipp från RussiaToday
I see, so the propaganda lives on. I'm sure maps were drawn in 1919, but who did the drawing? The soviets (agents in Finland or otherwise) for "evidence", Bolsheviks or ultra-nationalists in Finland?
Glabro100 2 weeks ago
What the hell is this shit.. I don't get it. =D How is it possible that in a country like Russia, there still is some media people who think this is trueXD Really what the hell. It all began when Russia shelled their own troops and then blamed Finns.
PatriaFinlandia 2 weeks ago
Finland was fortifying its borders so obviusly the were planning to invade soviet union.
wait...
MrAmokz 3 weeks ago
Yeah right.. There are megalomaniacs in every country. Even today there are nazi supporters in many countries. But does this marginal minority justify an all-out war when these people have absolutely no influence in that country's political decision making?! Should China invade the US because there are neo-nazis in the US?
UndisclosedID655 4 weeks ago
this does not suprise me. Russians have allways seen them self as a "master nation" and very often belived finns to be pesants. russia and usa both have their superpower image to defend. they cant be show to be invaiders.
gethsoftware 4 weeks ago
so fuck you fucking communist basterd! >:(
Osmodaful 1 month ago
and the karelia was part of finland bofore russia attaked
Osmodaful 1 month ago
why finland would attack russia that dosen't make sense how the fuck finland could attack russia with no weapons or equipment we only had some old supon-planes and only one working tank with broken gun?
Osmodaful 1 month ago
Sadly, I need to say that Finland had some concentration camps for the karelian people and for cccp pow´s... :/
venerate100 1 month ago
@venerate100
Umm... There actually are some pictures about jailing Karelians but all of them were manipulated. Why should we jail our own people? And do you say that it is illegal to keep POWs in concentration camps? When Russians surrender, where we put them then? At least we didn't kill them unlike Soviets did. XD And we did not kill any Soviet civilians UNLIKE Russians did to us even BEFORE the war. Check video: "Soviet partisans in Finland 1941-1944."
PatriaFinlandia 2 weeks ago
@PatriaFinlandia Kyllähän punakaartin entiset jäsenet, ja punaiset ylipäänsä vietiin löydettäessä keskitysleireille, kärsivät siellä jonkin aikaa, mutta muuten en usko että suomalaisia siviilejä olisi vangittu koskaan sillä tavalla kotimaassaan.
Avantgardisauruss 2 weeks ago
@Avantgardisauruss
No ne onkin sitten asia erikseen, mutta toi tyyppi väitti että me oltais pidetty karjalaisia ja venäläissotilaita keskitysleireillä. Karjalaisia ei pidetty, mutta minne me venäläiset olis sitten laitettu =D
PatriaFinlandia 2 weeks ago
We had no choice but to defend our country. Russians wanted to take of our little country, as did Estonia Latvia and Lithuania, although they had the land even though the whole world needs. All the people still do not understand what kind of warriors in Finland grew
iidaemmi 1 month ago
Too bad those fucking Finns fought in that war. If our grandfathers wouldnt have done that someone might actually believe this. Concentration camps.. seriously? :D
MrOhcomeonseriously 1 month ago
Niet! No comments. This is full Sovjet Bull Shit.
Ahti63 1 month ago
Barbarossa plan, 'nuff said!
DJe1957 1 month ago
Happy Finnish idependence day folks
:--]
dickorc 1 month ago 2
USSR was the cave of Devil...
aarnih 1 month ago
Can't wait to see the finland's 100th independence day in 2017! Hopefully i'm still alive then.
TheLahna87 1 month ago
Yea..plans to attack USSR. With our 30 WW1 tanks of which only 1 was battle-ready. Rest were used as bunker-cannons. With our vast air force of WW1 fighters. With our 50-year-old artillery, which was able to fire a round for every 80 rounds USSR fired. With our AT weapons, which were forced to lend to different places from different fronts because of huge lack of them.
How can anyone ignore these statistics and accuse Finland for attacking? Dosent common sense mean anything to you? Guess not...
JohQx3 1 month ago
I lol'd.
Those russians have a really good sense of humor. Finland invading the USSR would be like Cuba trying to invade the USA :D
MrTomSmoke 2 months ago
Nursing plans agains the bolsheviks? Oh, come on! We have a thousand years of history of fights agains the Russians. We never needed bolsheviks to be feared of. And a 3 million nation would never in her wildest dreams attack a 150 million neighbour! That's jus ridiculous propaganda. Soviets, or err... mmm... Russians, I mean - GROW UP!
ihmeli 2 months ago
Finland population: 3.5 million
Soviet Union population: 200 million
Finland attacked Russia? Yeah right...
Kaksisekuntiaaikaa 2 months ago 29
0:44 What gun is that??? need to know!!!!!!!!!
valttu94 2 months ago
I used to think RT was okay, but this is utter bullshit.
GVStudios 2 months ago 4
Some russophilia indeed. I want to think that russians and finns could live in piece. But becouse russians are so freaking asshole we must beat them again. And this time for sure.
cyen123456 2 months ago
Lol, what shit is this? Because russia screw up their conquest, they shouldn't blame finns of it. Russians are N00Bs,,, i mean, they succeed to kill someone. lol. Dead Finns? some. Dead russians from Siberia killed by their own nation? many....
arkhibas 3 months ago
Finland won the war but lost the peace. still, they won.
Frouza 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
IN THE SOVIET RUSSIA COUNTRY RUSH THEIR OWN ARMY .
BlackListKing1992 3 months ago
Comment removed
BlackListKing1992 3 months ago
Comment removed
BlackListKing1992 3 months ago
Taken to a hospital for prisoners. Hardly a concentration camp.
SepirothUltima 3 months ago
Finland planned a war against Soviet Union? Hah! Sure there were nationalists who dreamed to join the areas of Finnish speaking tribes from Sweden, Norway and Russia into Finland.
But ths had nothing to do with the Finland's politics! The Soviet Union of 1939 was a superpower with mechanized army, and Finland was a dwarf with ill equipped army! Anyone thinking Finland wanted to atteack, is a nut cake! 1939 Finland wasn't even allied with Germany, it was Stalin who secretly alled with Hitler!
Aurinkohirvi 4 months ago 37
@Aurinkohirvi
During the cival war there was talks about uniting both Finnish and Soviet KArelia. During the continuation war they escorted the Germans as far as the boarder.
efrantila 1 month ago
@efrantila
And there still is talks. Yet we aren't doing it.
The Finnish Civil War is also a War of Independence from Russia! During that war, the Finnish White Guard was fighting Russians IN Finland. The Russians supported the Finnish Red Guard openly. Nationalist circles saw there an opportunity to merge the Finnish speaking peoples into the same nation, and even some VOLUNTEER GROUPS made couple of expeditions to Russia, but the STATE OF FINLAND was not supporting this!
Aurinkohirvi 1 month ago
The Continuation War followed the Winter War. Stalin started it, his army was defeated in the Winter War, but he kep pressuring Finland and preparing a new attack. Everyone in Finland knew it would come! The Soviets went to Germany and told they would attack Finland, but Germans said:to Soviets not to do it, and leaked this to Finns. The Soviets and the Germans had a secret PLAN to divide Europe, and they were following the plan, too, and Finland was in it given to the Soviets!
Aurinkohirvi 1 month ago
ha ha ha ha...we fucked that ugly Mongols from Finland so hard they were crying like little girls...ha ha ha...
KILL, CUT, DESTROY, NAPALM, CLUSTER BOMB, NUKE, BOMB, POISON, MURDER, EXTERMINATE, BURN, CUT OF HEAD, CUT OUT EYES , AMPUTATE...enemies of Russia !
VTBbank 5 months ago
@VTBbank
Go to hell, tatar-bred vodka nigger. All of northern "russia" belongs to finno-ugric peoples. You are mongrels promoting a bogus imperialist identity as a "nationality". In reality, russia is just a hodgepodge of ukrainians/finno-ugrics/khazar jews/tatars assimilated in more or less varying combinations.
How does the bread taste there in karelia, invader? That grain has been fertilized with your fallen invader brethren, dead by our hand. Does the flesh of your own kind taste good?
ZimoP 5 months ago
@ZimoP And Finland is a mix of savolaiset, hämäläiset, pohjalaiset, suomalaiset etc. etc. tribes who have just for historical reasons been brought together under the flag of being "finnish". And when national borders are drawn in areas where people of different ethnicities have been living peacefully it's rarely possible to draw them without there being lots of people who end up living in the "wrong side" of the border.
Not saying that CCCP/Russia has dealt fairly with Finland though.
onpahanvaan 3 months ago
@onpahanvaan
Ystävä hyvä siinä on pieni ero. Venäjä ihan kansanmurhaan perustuva jatkuvasti laajentunut imperiumi. Suomi on kielellisesti/historiallisesti érittäin läheisten heimojen liitosta muodostunut edunvalvoja, puolustaa meidän kaikkien etua ulkoisia laajentumishaluisi vihollisia, kute Venäjää vastaan, ja lähinnä Venäjää meidä tapauksessa.
Venäjä o pysynyt pystyssä puhtaasti väkivallalla. Epämääräinen muhennos täysin erilaisia ihmisryhmiä valtavalla alueella.jotka haluaa itsenäiseksi.
ZimoP 2 months ago
@onpahanvaan
Sen takia suomen kaltaisia valtioita kutsutaan KANSALLISvaltioiksi, Venäjä on se vastakkainen ääripää eli multietninen liittovaltio. Tosiaan rajoja on vedetty täysin mielivaltaisesti kansallisvaltion periaatteiden vastaisesti kaikkialla, kuten vaikka meillä karjalassa. Koko Karjalan pitäisi olla Suomen puolella.
Ruotsalaiset ja venäläiset pilkkoi meidät kahtia protestanttiseen ja ortodoksiseen leiriin, surullista.
ZimoP 2 months ago
Nice red propaganda. Who the **** could ever publish this. Russia Today?
OlviTenu 6 months ago
Interesting how this video "forgets" to mention that Soviet Union started the hostilities also in the Continuation War by bombing finnish cities in summer 1941. Finland declared war on Soviet Union after that.
Morthuus 6 months ago
REMEMBER FINISH NEVER LOST THE WAR! We didin't Win the war either, so.
TheSotis12345 6 months ago
@TheSotis12345 Or you could say that it was a military victory for Finland, but a political defeat....
Arkticus 6 months ago
@Arkticus Makes sense.
TheSotis12345 6 months ago
What a sorry assed piece of russian propaganda.
rigal357 6 months ago 29
Winter war is too well known so that someone would believe this, but unfortunately this propaganda channel makes a lot of vids and some of them are liked. There are some parts of history that are lesser known to the world for example Baltic nations occupation, Chechnya occupation and this channel succeeds in brainwashing sometimes....
BTW dont forget to flag this vid.
Flag !
KaunasTravel 6 months ago
Winter war is too well known so that someone would believe this, but unfortunately this propaganda channel makes a lot of vids and some of them are liked. There are some parts of history that are lesser known to the world for example Baltic nations occupation, Chechnya occupation and this channel succeeds in brainwashing sometimes....
KaunasTravel 6 months ago
Russia Today is spreading filthy red propaganda! Do not listen to them. They are liars!
PatriaFinlandia 7 months ago
well i guess you cant admit any flaw. we finns for instance are SHAMED of the soviet prisoners that died in continution war. and even more shamed we are of those who died becose of murder. we have no superpower syndrome. the territory gained in winterwar did not do any difrence. but big countries allwasy spouting bullshit.
gethsoftware 7 months ago
but who really started the war? Russians!
vaaja2010 8 months ago
God russians are pathetic.
btsimonsen 8 months ago
@VChapaev Hang on, "_Finnish_ hordes"?! How do you get a horde from a country of ~4,000,000 (est. populaton of Finland around 1939)?
And the the Finland took no official stance in the so called Tribal Wars that you mentioned.
As for the conspiracy that Finland would have joined Germany in a war against USSR anyway, I suggest you take a look at our military readiness in 1930's and take into account for the fact that we built the Mannerheim Line instead of arming the army....
Oh, and, Helsinki.
Arkticus 8 months ago
Long live Finland against Communist scum!
IustitiaPax 8 months ago
Where's the audio? I'd like to hear what's being said.
hectorbolshevik 8 months ago
The Soviets started it!
You should be giving Karelia and Petsamo back to Finland!
lordofthemist 8 months ago
@lordofthemist Finnish border guard shot a russian soldier for no reason. I call that starting a war.
Dimdim316 8 months ago
@Dimdim316 That was a fraud enacted by the bolsjeviks to give Stalin an excuse to invade Finland. The Finns were badly equipped and not prepared enough for a war, especially against the Soviet Union. Do you really think they would give the soviets an excuse to invade?
lordofthemist 8 months ago
@Dimdim316 As far as I know, the current evidence uncovered by both Finnish and Russian historians says that the "Shots of Mainila", that the USSR used as an excuse to the war, were fired by Soviet mortars, from Soviet side, to an empty field. No casualties were reported in the Leningrad military district (I hope I remembered that name correctly), until the conflict truly began.
So in other words: it was as fraud as the German operation earlier the same year to start the war with Poland.
Arkticus 8 months ago
Give us the Karelia back, criminals.
alpinweiss 9 months ago
RussiaToday is not credit to team. Spewing out bs like this...
Note to self: Disregard everything that's related to RussiaToday
Arpiainen2 9 months ago
What kind of bullshit is this.
Russian propaganda is outrageously bad, how can people take this seriously?
MrTomSmoke 9 months ago 3
they got berlin but not finland... LOL
lerjo991 9 months ago 16
@lerjo991
But still...you have lost both Winter War and WW2 !
BRRUHHA HA HA HA HA !
VTBbank 5 months ago
what a bunch of bullshit
AZ264GJ 9 months ago
Im proud of my grandfather that he protected our Mighty Finland =) im sorry for russians but you started it =)
JTHEMAN93 9 months ago
Finnish didn't capture soviet land. Finns didnt want soviet territory. Leave us alone PLEASE!
funkulankula 9 months ago
@funkulankula Well, we did conquer most of Karjala that wasn't our land, but there was a reason for it. It was meant to be something that we could bargain with, come peace, so that we would be able hold on to our 1920 border that we had agreed upon with the Soviets (and in the same agreement was the non-agression pact that the Soviets "conviniently" were able to denounce because of Mainila, even though it was extended in 1932 to last until 1945).
Just saiyan ;)
Arkticus 9 months ago
what a bullshit reportage; Finland planned attacking the Soviet Union.
sinitskyd 10 months ago
Russian state controlled media again; changing subject to make the Soviet invasion look good with revisionist Russian historian and sad stories of Finnish internment camp from an old lady. Finland would not have attacked the Soviet Union hadn't the Soviet Union attacked Finland - WITH WHAT would Finland have attacked the Soviet Union? Drawing the issue of internment camps to this is also changing subject. The camps were for enemy citizens (enemy aliens), and people weren't sent in them to die.
vonVince 10 months ago
@vonVince People dying in the internment camps did happen, the question is, were those people murdered by intentionally giving them too little food? The answer to that question is no. So why did they die? The answer to that question is the low quality and small amount of available food? Why was the quality and amount so bad? The simple answer to that is the bad harvest, which forced everybody to use for food even those stuff which would have in normal situation used for some other things.
vonVince 10 months ago
@vonVince Even Finns suffered from food problems akin to internment camps. Due to loss of fertilizer imports and fifth of arable land (Karelia in Winter War) the food situation in Finland was difficult. Although some fo the needed grain and foodstuff was bought from Germany, Finland was still on the brink of faminy at 1941. When most of the working age males were serving in Finnish military, there was even a shortage of labor. In statistics there was also an increase in Finnish deaths.
vonVince 10 months ago
@vonVince
If you had no enough food,you shouldn't lock innocent women and children in concentration camps only because of their nationality.That's just like your friend Adolf was doing with the nationalities he didn't like.As for possibility of finnish atack on USSR,I believe WW2 proved that it might happened. However in USSR of 1939 was fear not of Finland,but of some third country who could use finnish territory to atack Russia.Watch soviet documentary "Mannerheim line"1940
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 Good to see a guy who's Youtube avatar is a communist soldier killing Finnish soldier - that's stuff. That's just like your friend Adolf was doing with the nationalities he didn't like." No. "you shouldn't lock innocent women and children in concentration camps only because of their nationality." An legal act - enemy aliens; citizens of enemy nation. All nations interned enemy aliens during World War II. No one - not even Stalin - ever sentenced Finnish for it.
vonVince 9 months ago
Comment removed
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 "As for possibility of finnish atack on USSR,I believe WW2 proved that it might happened. " After Stalin first attacked Finland and pulled Finland into WW2 when he Stalin and Hitler cut Europe like pizza"Watch soviet documentary "Mannerheim line"1940" That's not a documentary; it's a Stalin time propaganda movie about Soviet Union against Finland.
vonVince 9 months ago
@vonVince
What you talking about? USSR didn't lock finnnish civilians in concentration camps in 1939-40.Only finns commited such crimes during WW2.It's a war crime,and your leaders like Ryti deserved to be enjailed after the war.As for "Mannerheim line",it's explain soviet view on events.As for territory USSR got in 1939-40,like western Ukraine and Belarus and Bessarabia,this land was stolen from us in 1918-20,so we had any right to take it back.
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 Oh you didn't lock civilians in concentration camps? You might want to ask Estonians, Latvians, Liethuanians, Poles, Germans and, hell, your own countrymen.
Now it is true that few if any finns ever ended up in those camps, but that's only because they were able to leave their generations old homes and flee to main Finland. And no, "Mannerheim Line" is a propaganda movie, that's sole purpouse is to make USSR look better, after such a humiliation at hands of such a small nation.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Arkticus Indeed. Russia Today is a nice tv channel with some independence and non-controlled opinions. But this piece is too pro-Soviet and too mythological on the conflicts of the imperialistic-communistic USSR.
IustitiaPax 9 months ago
@Arkticus
We never locked people in the concentration camps because of nationality,like finns did.It was genocide,commited by finnish fascists against russian speaking civilians,mostly women and children.USSR had camps as well,but only those who was hostile to the regime were sent there.
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 .....so,it's okay for the Soviets to lock up people because they are (or are not) Soviet citizens (or citizens of any nation), but when somebody else does it, it's genocide?
Double standard. Read about it.
Oh, and we were just as much nazi or fascist as USSR was democratic. Doesn't mean that we didn't have those idiots as well, but it's short sighted and...well, judgemental to say the least, to asume that the rest of the poulation whole heartetly agreed with them.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Arkticus
Learn what word "genocide" means! All nations had camps during the WW2.But only finns locked there civillians on the occupied territory only because of their nationality.If you trying to exterminate russians only because they are russians or jews only because they are jews,this is genocide!
Raven30101979 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Raven30101979 *facepalm*
All right, let's see:
Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"
-Wikipedia
Soviets also locked people in camps through out their occupied terrotories because of their nationality (see my previous message for a list), and you say that that was not genocide, but when Finns did it, it is!
Double. Fucking. Standard.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 Further more, you used the word "genocide" first, I merely pointed out that you also locked civilians in camps. Here's another word you might want to check out:
A prisoner of war (POW, PoW, PW, P/W, WP, PsW) or enemy prisoner of war (EPW) is a person, whether civilian or combatant, who is held in custody by an enemy power during or immediately after an armed conflict.
-Wikipedia
The Russians who we put to camps were POW's, unlike in the Baltics that "joined" USSR without a war.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Arkticus
Did USSR put in camps ALL citisens of Baltic rupublics?No,just few thousands who were enemies of regime,and it prevented revolt after germans invaded.And most of them survived the war perfectly well.
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 Finns locked ALL russian civillians you could capture, in the camps.And you put there ONLY russians,not karelians or other north nationalities.Those people were doomed to die if Red Army wouldn't defeat you.Only reason why you didn't send them to the ovens,like your german masters used to do is your worrying about public opinion in USA and UK.
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979
It was 100% genocide,because you tried to exterminate RUSSIANS,and not CITISENS OF USSR.
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 I don't know what kind of fantasy-crossover fiction book you have been forced to swallow, but: There was no "extermination" of Russians perpitrated by the Finns! Only the Germans eagerly followed the false biology of the nazi ideology, while we respected the international laws concerning prisoners of war. Also, we did actually imprison people of the ethnic minorities, not only slavic peoples.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 Further more, the only plan that we ever had for these people was to exchange them with the Germans for people of these afore mentioned minorities, but even that never happened.
And no, I'm not deying the fact that many people died even in our camps, however the reasons for them were the unusual age structure (most were elders or children), our small food reserves that somewhat were enough for our own people, and the hard work that these people did.
Not systematic extermination.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Arkticus
I don't think finns died of starvation like russian children in your camps.As for the our territory you wanted to steal,I'll remind you words of Ryti,he said 11.09.1941 to german ambassador:"If Peterburg will not exist,Neva would be a ideal border of Finland"And please don't tell that you renamed our towns,like Petrozavodsk to Jaaslina,just for better bargaining with USSR.Nobody renames towns if he doesn't plan to stay in it.
Raven30101979 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 Key word: "think". True, I can't prove you wrong without detailed reports of those camps, but your claims are equally unprovable.
And as for "stealing", again you an asumbtion, with what you "think" as evidence.
Of course we were being nice to the Germans, just like USSR was licking the western butt after Barbarossa started, to get military aid.As for naming, many towns on our borders have had both a russian as well as a finnish or karelian name.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 Granted, Petroskoi did not have such a dual name prior -41, but it was one the few that had it's name changed. And if you think that indicates that we planned to stay, well, go ahead. But maybe we just didn't want the capital of Karjala to have a name of "Peter's factory".
Primarily these lands were meant as barganing ground, though I do not doubt that had the possibility risen, we would have happily kept Äänislinna and the whole Karjala.
Arkticus 9 months ago
@Raven30101979 everybody did that. americans locked up japanese living in america in concentration camps after pearl harbor
Forvolet 9 months ago
@Forvolet Yes,"living in America",but finns locked in the camps russians living on the russian land.It's different.
Raven30101979 8 months ago
@Raven30101979 Correction: Russians living in occupied areas. However, the reason for the imprisonment of the Japanese-Americans and Russians were to a large extent the same: they were considered as citizens of an hostile enemy nation, and the possibility of infiltrators, partisans and other sorts of operatives was judged too high, so they were made POW's with their families. There are of course other reasons, such as keeping check of the population, etc.that are understandable during a conflict
Arkticus 8 months ago
@Arkticus
When Petrozavodsk became an area occupied by USSR?! Those actions just shown that USSR was more civilised than Finland,we didn't torture you civillians in 1939-40.War is business for men,children and women shouldn't suffer.
Raven30101979 8 months ago
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@Raven30101979 "Those actions just shown that USSR was more civilised than Finland" first off i agree on your point that noone should suffer but hey Gulags, heard about those before? there was plenty of those during the years 1939-1940
devilstalker 8 months ago
@Raven30101979 ...I guess you missundestood me. My reply meant that we put Russian POW's to our camps who lived in areas that were occupied Finland. Then again, you DID occupy areas such as Petsamo, Viipuri and the rest of Finnish Karjala that was our terriotory since 1917.
Also, if your going to bring torture in to this, I recommend that you get some pretty hard evidence to show that such actions were deilberate purely on the basis of nationality, and that such things did not occure in USSR.
Arkticus 8 months ago
@Raven30101979 Of course, there is the fact that we got the majority of our citizens out of Karjala (some 400,000 IIRC) during the early winter of 1939, and again successfully moved the re-setteled citizens in 1944. This in part explains why there were no need for camp during USSR's occupation of our Karjala.
As I recall, no such movements of your citizens occured, thus they became POW on occupied land.
Arkticus 8 months ago
@Arkticus
Actually,what you call Petsamo is originally russian town Pechenga,which had never belonged to Finland untill you used civil war in Russia and stole it.As for discrimination,I'd advise you to read what finnish historian Petiola wrote about it.He describes how all russian POW were treated according to their nationality.
Raven30101979 8 months ago
@Raven30101979
Is there a Finnish town that hasn't belonged to russia? :p
Bajamajattaja 8 months ago
@Raven30101979 but still finland can win 20 times bigger country like russia
TheTrivall 8 months ago
@TheTrivall
If for you giving away territory,paying reparations and injailing your leaders by the Stalin order means "winning",we have different positions about what victory is.:)
Raven30101979 8 months ago
@Raven30101979 Do you think that s small countrys definition of victory when a more than 100 times bigger country attacks, is that it forces the superpower to surrender? Gosh you're so stupid...
Of course it was a defencive victory!
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN
Well if you call humiliation u suffered in 1940 and 1944-a victory,go ahead.I wouldn't call giving away territory,paying reparations and injailing own leaders by enemy order(Ryti and others) a victory.
Raven30101979 6 months ago
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN
So what? In WW2 Germany lost less people than USSR.Does it mean that Germany won the war?
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 Use your brains dumb*ss...
Germany was the attacker, USSR the defender (in this case...). It doesnt matter how great the defenders casualties are, if they keep their block the attacker. Finland managed to block the impossible seeming foe with even very low casualties which is a great achievement.
Finlands army proved to be a lot better, than the USSR's and kept Finland independence. It was a defencive victory for Finland, if you know what that means?
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN Yes sure! In 1941 you atacked us trying to save your independence:) You wanted to steal our land but as result you were humiliated.As for 1939-40,our goal was not to capture Finland,but to move border from Leningrad and we achieved it more than we offered you before the war.So,who won both wars?
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 First of all, learn your history. It is common knowledge, that the USSR started the continuation war by bombing finnish civilian targets. Homes. Killed lots of civilians. And I wouldnt say, that gaining all of our stolen territory back, is a humiliation :) How can you call the lands you stole in the winter war, your land?
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 And please stop that BS. Your goal was just to move your border a little bit further...
Haha what a poor joke. It is common knowledge that there was a secret protocol in the molotov-ribbentrop pact, which declared which areas the USSR would get to capture without German interference. Those areas included atleast: Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Half of Poland, Hungary, Ukraine, Romania and Bulgary. So what did you say about just getting some space between the border and leningrad ; )
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN
Lies! In june 1941 we bombed not civillian targets,but airfields,which were used to atack our cities.Unfortunately some bombs fell on houses,but it was not a target.Second,how you will explain that finnish submarines were placing mines in russian waters from 22of June 1941 having order to atack any our ship they will meet?And if we agreed to take Romania and Bulgaria,why we didn't do it? Yes we took Bessarabia and western Ukraine and Belarus,but in was stolen from us in 1918-20
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 Finnish ships didnt lay even a single mine in russian waters. The finnish navy had every right to place mines incase of soviet attack (note that you had bombed finland before this) to its own waters of gulf of Finland. And of course the finnish navy was ordered to attack any enemy ship approaching finnish waters. And oh sorry I read wrong, Bulgaria wasnt mentioned in that secret protocol, but indeed Romanias Bessarabia was promised for the USSR.
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
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Raven30101979 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN
As for land we returned in 1940,It was part of russian state from 10th century,when there was no such word as Finland.Remember who let you to use this land in 1811? So after our divorse in 1917 we had any right to take it back!
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 And how can you claim that, that because that area was conquered long ago by russians and then lost again, you had the right for that area? During that era there was unaligned neutral finno-ugric clans/tribes all over the area what we today call as Finland. That area changed its ownership from time to time when the clans fought russian/finnish clans.
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 You are wrong. Open a history book and check how far back Finland goes, given by Swedish people. You had right to take it back? What would have been that right that Soviet-Russia had right to invade independent country? You speak about right when Soviet action was so low. Why did not Soviet-Russia demanded back Karelia if it was so Russian?
tupakki 6 months ago
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@tupakki Lies again! Finns layed mines in soviet waters,near Estonia! 21of june 1941 Finns sent 5000 soldiers to the Aland islands and arrested personal of soviet ambassy there.How will you explain that? And as you see,after returning of Bessarabia,we didn't bother Romania anymore.Same would be with Finland,if you agreed to change a border in autumn 1939.
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 Oh you deleted your post ; )
You said: ''And as you see,after returning of Bessarabia,we didn't bother Romania anymore.Same would be with Finland,if you agreed to change a border in autumn 1939.''
The difference is,that there is an official proof,that USSR:s didnt intend just to take part of Karelia,but whole Finland.Theres written black in white in the paper about that deal In the deal read that USSR would get Bessarabia only and they did get it and also that ussr gets Finland.
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
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@kaahaajaFIN Sorry,I didn't want to delete it.I repeat it for you:)Lies again! Finns layed mines in soviet waters,near Estonia! 21of june 1941 Finns sent 5000 soldiers to the Aland islands and arrested personal of soviet ambassy there.How will you explain that? And as you see,after returning of Bessarabia,we didn't bother Romania anymore.Same would be with Finland,if you agreed to change a border in autumn 1939.
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN So,what about soviet ambassy in Aland islands? Why Finland sent troops and arrested staff 21of june? You still telling,that Finland didn't mean to atack USSR in 1941?
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 There might be a chance that the Finnish goverment was preparing for war to take back stolen areas, yes. Who wouldnt want to embark on a heroic mission to fight back your stolen home?
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
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Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 So,you agree,that even without bombing 25of june Finland would atack USSR! As for returning of stolen land,I'll remind you words of Ryti,he said to german ambassador 11091941"If Peterburg will not exist,Neva would be perfect border of Finland" and words of Mannerheim,who said,that he will not put down his sword,untill whole Karelia will be conquered.Ambitions of your fuhrers were much higher than returning of land,lost in 1940.They dreamt of great Finland with border in Urals
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 No I ''admit'' nothing... I said that, it wouldnt've been an impossible intention. But guessing what would've happened leads to nowhere. Finland didn't have to start a war to regain its stolen territories, because stupid russians started it themselves. Words of individual ''celebrities'' doesnt count for nothing. Of course there was some random officers who dreamed of ''greater Finland'', but no one in charge didnt want it.
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 You're saying, that Finlands goal was to move the border up to Ural. So, why did the Finnisch troops stop to their old borders, or not far from them? Why did Finland refuse to send troops or supplies to the blockade of Leningrad? Why did Finland refuse Hitlers plea to cut the railroad from Murmansk to Leningrad (the road of life)? If we would've cut that railroad, Leningrad would've fallen in no time, due to lack of food, ammunition, weapons, and men. Think about the big picture..
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN
What r u talking about?! Finns captured and renamed Petrozavodsk.Nobody renames the city if he doesn't plan to stay there.Finns with germans tried to capture island of Suho,on Ladoga lake,in order to cut Road of Life(which was going via Ladoga,not from Murmansk),finns blocked Leningrad from the north.
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979
The reasons why finns didn't try to capture Leningrad are:1.There would be heavy street battles,which finnish army wouldn't stand(like germans got in Stalingrad) and finns couldn't feed millions of civillians if they captured the city(what is very unlikely).
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 As I allready said, Finns didnt halt straight to the old lines, but as a revenge, a little further.
And how many times do I have to tell you, that Finns did not try to cut the road of life, though Hitler asked to do so. And no again, Finns did not block leningrad from north. Finland did not participate in that siege...
Finland didnt particiapte in that siege, because Finland allready got everything they wanted, and with a little extra for the soviet aggression.
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN
And who decided how much russian land Finland had to get as "compensation"? No,Finland captured as much as they could.As for Leningrad blockade,what do you mean,telling that finns didn't participate? They blocked city from the north,they didn't allow to bring food and amunition to defenders.It's 100% participation! Yes, they didn't try to capture it,but only for reasons I explained before.
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 Finlands government decided. Germans continued far far from where Finns stood. Finland could've went with the Germans and gained much much more land, but they didnt. They just wanted old borders back with a little extra so if USSR would attack again, it would be much less hurtful to lose those extra areas, than the original areas. And lies. Everything you said about Leningrad is utter bullshit and not worthy for even an answer. Btw, Leningrad was built by finnish slaves. murderers
kaahaajaFIN 6 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN You can give me a link for a source of your information.I mean decission of finnish government where finnish troops schould stop it's advance.Otherwise they would reach Pacific Ocean,wouldn't they?:) And what about Ryti words about border on Neva?Or he wasn't part of finnish government and had no right for such statement? I don't even comment about finnish slaves,who built Leningrad:) Perhaps finns also won for us Kulikovo battle?
Raven30101979 6 months ago
@Raven30101979 Also if you want to read how passive Finland was towards the city of Leningrad to Germands. For example you should read a book by Earl F. Ziemke called The German Northern Theater of Operations 1940-1945. Read the pages 428-429.
Also try to Finland what Mannerheim wrote to USA and England about the stopping the advance of Finnish army in December 1941. Then your delusion of that Finnish army would have advanced more deeper Russia if they could, would be over.
tupakki 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 "Finland captured as much as they could" You are wrong with this. "In December 1941, Mannerheim gave the Finnish army an order to stop the advancement, after which began a period of static warfare, lasting two and a half years. The Finnish troops retained most of eastern Karelia under occupation." Finland stop advancements because of Allied, England and USA. Finland promised to stop when positions were beneficial for Finnish army. As it happened.
tupakki 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 Once again I can be reading of blockade of Leningrad of Finnish army. How far Finnish army advanced from Tarto borders on the Karelian isthmus during the war of 1941 -1944. You can measure that distance from Border river (Siestarjoki) aka Сестра, Sestra. Please tell me this.
"didn't allow to bring food and amunition to defenders." Are you kidding me? Never heard "the road of life". Finnish army never tried to cut it or close the blockade. Please stay on truth!
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki
I repeat once again,Finland didn't try to capture Leningrad only because finnish army wouldn't stand heavy street battles in the city and if they even manage it they couldn't afford to feed millions of civillians,since you put all russian civillians in concentration camps,you had to do the same with people in Leningrad.That's why finns stoped advance on Karelian isthmus.
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 As for blockade,finns cut White sea-Baltic channel,thus cutting the way of supplies to Leningrad.Also finns and germans tried to capture island of Suho,in order to cut Road of Life.Finns stoped advance because they were unable to capture and defend more land.
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 Oh the Suho operation. Heh heh. Let me tell you something about the Suho operation. It was made only by one general, Talvela. He begged this kind of operation from Germans and he went over Finnish war leaders. That's the reason why this operation is called "The war of Talvela". If this was really intetent of Finnish army. Have you thought why Italians and Germans mainly did this operation and Finnish troops never tried to repeat it?
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki Finns didn't try to repeat Suho operation,because first one in 1942 was finished by their defeat ,so finns didn't want to suffer.Finns wouldn't take Leningrad that easily.Germans broke their teeth in Stalingrad street batlles,same would be with finns in Leningrad.You know what losses germans had there?And even if you loosing half of your army would take Leningrad,how would you feed so many civillians in your concentration camps?
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 You don't need to know a real story behind the Suho operation. I already briefly explained it for you. You can also find more information if you are interested. Finnish soldiers did not repeat it because the operation was not accepted by Finnish war leaders.Only few Finnish soldiers participated, rest were German and Italians. Stalingrad and the situation on Finnish fronts were totally different. Why did you even compare them?Do you know the reason of Finnish camps?
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki
Reason for cams was simple-ethnic cleansing.You put people in the camps only because of nationality.Same you would do in Leningrad,since you wanted border between Finland and Third Reich on Neva.I compare Leningrad and Stalingrad,just to show you what would be if finnish troops managed to reach streets of the city.
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 "You put people in the camps only because of nationality." Soviet Union did same for example like during the Winter War. Finnish army did not do that for all Russian on all areas they got on during the Continuation war. They did that on Russians who lived on old Karelian areas. Most of these Russians were forced to move on Karelia at the first place.Finnish forces did have street fight on streets of Vyborg. Finnish army did NOT have any intentions to go Leningrad
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki
Lies! USSR didn't put finnish civillians in the camps because of their nationality.Are you comparing Vyborg and Leningrad?! Believe me,in Leningrad you would get different street fights,not like you had in Vyborg.Yes,finns didn't want to atack Leningrad,first they wanted all it's defenders and civillians to die of starvation.Nobody was forced to move in Petrozavodsk,russians lived there hundreds of years but you also did ethnic cleansing there.
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 What are lies? Prove me if I am saying lies for you. USSR did put Finnish civilians to camps for example during the Winter War. Also during Stalin purges, the percentages of Finnish people were high who were shot. Finnish troops wouldn't have got any street fights in Leningrad because they never had any plans to attack to the city nor killing people for starvation. You know that area of Petrozavodsk were inhabited by Karelians much before Russians.
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki
You telling me,that all finnish civillians,who lived on teritory taken in 1940 by USSR were sent to camps?! In USSR NOBODY was sent to jail only because of nationality.That's the difference between our countries.Yes,karelians came there before russians,but it was karelians,not finns.Russians and karelians are both orthodox christian,so they lived like brothers for hundreds years.Ryti said clear,that Neva schould be border of Finland,so one way or another you had to take Leningrad.
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 I did not mean that civilians from lost Finnish areas were sent to camps. I said that those civilians who got under soviet soldiers during the Winter War were sent to camps. Women, old men, children etc. Finland did not put all Russians to camps, do not be silly. Only from certain areas. Idea was to keep them briefly and send them back to their home areas where they were from. War got longer and we know what happened. Karelians are "Baltic Finns", many got influence from East.
tupakki 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 When did Ryti said that? I need to read better what he has been saying. Ryti has indeed said that if Germany win the war, East-Karelia will be Finnish.
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki
Ryti said it 11.09.1941 on the meeting with german ambassador:"If Peterburg will not exist,Neva would be an ideal border of Finland".Sounds pretty clear,isn't it? Just like words of Mannerheim:"I won't put down my sword,untill whole Karelia will be cleared from russians".And where you supposed to send people from Petrozavodsk,who were born there?
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 You have understood wrong what Ryti said. He ment that perfect borders for Finland would be on Neva if Petersburg wouldn't exist but it did. It did not mean that he wanted to destroy it. Also check what Finnish "leaders" said to Ingrians when they wanted independent country at 1918-1920. If you want to talk about Mannerheim's Sword Scabbard Declaration, send me a pm. This textbox is too short for it. To send them there where they were from, from the very beginning.
tupakki 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 I can briefly comment about Mannerheim's declaration here.He said like this in Finnish: "En pane miekkaani tuppeeni ennen kuin kaikki linnoitukset ovat meidän käsissämme, ennen kuin laillinen järjestys vallitsee maassa, ennen kuin viimeinen Leninin soturi ja huligaani on karkotettu niin hyvin Suomen kuin Vienan Karjalastakin..." I won't holster my sword...until the last Lenin's soldier and hooligan is deported from Finland and Vienna Karelia"Send pm for more details
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki :"If Peterburg will not exist as a big city,Neva would be an ideal border of Finland.PETERBURG SCHOULD BE DESTROYED"That's whole sentence of Ryti.You can find it in the book Siege of Leningrad and Finland.He said it 11.09.1941 when everybody thought that in couple of days Leningrad will fall.
Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 Check the source that book has been used for Ryti's statement. If it really a reliable book there is a source list on the back of that book. I want to see this statement by its original form. I really want to read fully what he has been saying. Actually I have heard this statement before with those dates and it's also in Finnish published by very left parties without sources whatsoever. So please give me your source that I can check it.
tupakki 5 months ago
@tupakki Your quote of "Lenin's hooligans" is from Mannerheim's speech from 1918. From the Finland's Independence War.
Aurinkohirvi 4 months ago
@Aurinkohirvi I know it is. It was just an example for free Karelia by Mannerheim. He also said said like this in speech number 1. in the start of Continuation war. "Aseveljet! - Seuratkaa minua vielä viimeisen kerran - nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nosee ja sarastaa Suomen huomen." I don't need to translate this to you.
tupakki 4 months ago
@Raven30101979 Churchill wrote in his diary: "Leningrad is encircled" then sent a letter to Mannerheim requesting that Finnish army should stop harassing the railroads north of Leningrad used for American and British food and ammunition supplies to Leningrad by British and American Arctic convoys." You know why Finland did cut the rairoad? Many of those materials were used against Finnish army and people. As fighter planes from USA etc. Would be mad if they wouldn't.
tupakki 5 months ago
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Raven30101979 5 months ago
@Raven30101979 You don't really need to repeat any lies you are saying. War historians have agreed that if Finland would have agreed to advance to the city of Leningrad. Most likely the city would have been fallen. Same assumption have been made by German general Von Manstein. You know him and his role for the city of Leningrad?
"September 2–9: Finns finish the capture of the salients of Beloostrov and Kirjasalo and starts to prepare defences."
tupakki 5 months ago
@TheTrivall Finland didn't win...
Bajamajattaja 8 months ago
@Bajamajattaja Really? Soviet Union wanted to conquer Finland, Finland wanted to stay independent. In the end Finland lost some territory but was still independent, while soviets failed in their war goals. Your definition of winning is just different than mine I guess.
striper70 8 months ago
@Bajamajattaja but russia didn't invade finland like they planned
TheTrivall 8 months ago
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vonVince 10 months ago
oh horse hockey. the russians may have dumped communism but they still have some left over communist appologists. too bad they still follow the part line of a party that has been given the boot and is discredited. stalin sucked, communism sucked , and tiny little finland beat them both. if stalin had won finland would have vanished like latvia, lithuania and estonia. and the casualties were ten times the party line figures. finland planning to attack the ussr, as stupid as jamaica vs. the usa.
nomadnametab 10 months ago
Kaikki, mitä videossa sanotaan, on totta. En tajua, mitä vittua täällä itketään.
nlitement 10 months ago
@nlitement Siis myös se että Suomi oli jo kauan suunnitellut hyökkäystä Neukkulaan vaikka rajat oli jo sovittu vuonna 1920 ja maiden välillä oli hyökkäämättömyys sopimus jonka piti kestää vuoteen -45 saakka?
Lisäksi Suomen "concentration camps" vastasit länsi liittoutuneiden interointi leirejä, eivät natsien tai ryssien omia kuoleman loukkuja.
/watch?v=nTEKdUlDLfo
Tuossa linkki uudempaan ja huomattavasti neutraalimpaan uutisointii RT:ltä.
Arkticus 10 months ago
What a heap of propaganda. I've heard before of RT's pro-Soviet bias, but what I see there is just hard to believe - to be so openly pro-Soviet with all the knowledge we've got now? "No innocent victim"? Wanted to attack USSR? Hey, RT, gimme a break!
polcat9 10 months ago
I flagged this for "supporting terrorism". Serves you right RT. Fucking Fascist supporting corrupt journalists.
wellerocks 10 months ago
I hate Russian liars!
PatriaFinlandia 11 months ago