This guy is very biased. The power decline of the Middle East happened because the Europeans discovered a new route to Asia and new lands to exploit (the Americas).
it appears that this guy is biased into giving the impression that greeks contributed exclusively to musims, where in fact, many school of thoughts of the greeks were refuted by muslims scholars and scientists.Also muslim decine isn't due to regulation of religion it is due to devide amongst them for ruling.
The Quran encourages and supports science and seeking of knowledge no matter what the source is, when Muslims forgot the teachings of the Quran, and they still do, they lost their position in the world. However, the Quran corrected Aristotle in many things, for example the Quran mentioned the atom by weight six times, never by size like the Greeks did, and mentioned "less than an atom" twice. Also spontaneous generation for Aristotle was refuted by the Quran in my video: /watch?v=UYO9AuEhFwo
House of knowledge ? The city was Baghdad if I were not mistaken. Open-minded Muslims of that time were the best. Most of the muslims now are quite ignorant as they tend not to question things. Believing doesn't get you anywhere.
I like your intellectual integrity and honesty, I'll give you that. But I don't agree with your conclusion that Aristotle's philosophy was instrumental for a civilisation to advance and succeed. Ancient Greek philosophy definitely did help the Muslims, but definitely was not the sole reason for their early success.
...I think part of the explanation for the Christian open-mindedness vs. the Muslim closed-mindedness can be explained by the fact that in Islam anything that comes before Islam belongs to the era of "ignorance". That's why not only Greek epics and poetry were ignored but also the histories of the very peoples that had been conquered and islamized. Christians were OTOH always acutely aware of the greatness that had preceded them even though they had certain moral objections to it...
..But it's nevertheless interesting to note the eagerness with which the post-Roman Latin West absorbed any and all knowledge without customary prejudice which was for instance present in the Muslim world and many other places. While Europeans collected tales such as the ones contained in Arabian Nights, works such as the Odyssey and the Iliad were ignored by the Muslims due to their non-Islamic nature...
..This might have been a result of the Latin upper classes themselves writing and reading in Greek but it had far-reaching consequences. Also, another problem for the Latin West was that the Muslim conquests severed trading links with the Eastern Meditteranean meaning that papyrus was no more available to the Latin West. So, you had the additional problem of a serious shortage of writing material...
As for the rise of the poor and undeveloped Latin West, I think this by itself is a testament to the positive influence of Christianity. Christianity was never closed towards sciences and philosophy, the problem was simply that very few books of that nature were available in Latin while OTOH knowledge of Greek was sparse at best and relations with Byzantium often strained. It's amazing that prior to Boethius in the 6tht century no works by Plato and Aristotole had been translated to Latin...
...Also, the quality of the Arabic translations were often quite bad as the works of Aristotle and many others were reinterpreted in the process of translating as to not offend Muslim sensitivities. The result being that all today's versions are from the original Greek manuscripts that survived in Constantinople...
...However, even many scientific works were pretty badly handled in the translation process. For instance, Plato was virtually ignored by the Muslims and most of Plato's works survived only in Constantinople. Euclid's Elements, the major mathematical treatise of ancient times, was lost in the Muslim world until they received it via Constantinople around 800 AD. That a widely known and distributed work like Euclid's Elements simply dissappeared in the Eastern Meditteranean is highly indicative...
...I don't even view the translation of Greek works as something entirely posiive, since after all the Arabs by imposing their language and culture broke a millenium-long Greek tradition in the Eastern Mediterranean and as much was translated even more works were lost due to not them being translated into Arabic. Not to mention the well-attested Muslim disdain for all works relating to non-Muslim culture, poetry, epics, etc, which were all doomed from the start by the Muslim conquests...
...So, the question is not how Muslims were able to live through a "Golden Age", since after all they conquered the most prosperous and thriving region in the world, collecting a lot of booty from their non-Muslim subjects in the process. The real question is how they were able to intellectually and economically ruin the Eastern Mediterranean and Persia so thoroughly, a region that had always since the times of ancient Sumer had so much wealth and intellectual "know-how"...
Muslims conquered the most prosperous and most literate regions of the Roman Empire. Until the Muslim conquests, the Greek East was unquestionably richer and more advanced than the Latin West. When the Roman Empire split into Western and Eastern halves, Rome was already in decay and the only city on European soil worthy of mention as a center of learning was Constantinople. But Constantinople was a part of the Greek East which would prove to be a big hurdle in terms of intellectual exchange...
I don't think its that the muslims civilisation became antagonistic towards greek thought, its that they the new empires that ruled, or the new rulers, didn't place as much emphasis on encouraging scientific endeavour and critical thinking. Eventually these things just fell out, and recently, muslims have become antogonistic towards any ideas they feel aren't islam. Its also worth pointing out that muslim society under the golden age, was a muslim state. The first muslims states, not secular.
@valkyriez1 Ah, such a beautiful, peaceful muslim thing to say. I think I'll clone your channel since you speak so influentially. Would you like that? Spam all your friends and the one and only sub you have, (one sub in a year? how pathetic). Then I could go around using your 'good' name and discredit every fucking comment you've made in the last year, you lonely little piece of moslum shit.
Would you like that? I did the same to IRANEHMA and all five of his other channels, where is he now? GONE
@valkyriez1 Why did you remove this comment you wrote?
"your father and your brother and you used to masturbate using book of ezekiel chapter 23 from your fucking holy pornography bible as material.FUCK YOUR DESCENDENT AND BURN IN HELL FIRE!!! HAHAHAHA!!U FUCKING PRICK!!"
Is this how the world is supposed to perceive muslims?
Are muslims really just a bunch of assholes who run around saying they're all about peace but in reality, easily fall to the level of a 1st grader?
@SilveradoNL you are soo wrong,prophet Muhammad (PEACE AND BLESSING BE UPON HIM) was cannot read,at that time there was no microscope or electronic microscope.
africa was not called the dark continent,because it was backward,it was call that why because most of europe did not know about it in the 1800's.africa has advanced civilizations too.
When Chrisitanity achieved state power in Rome, the Church went on a two centuries' long orgy of destruction of all things pagan, including their colleges and libraries. This was a big factor in the resulting Dark Ages. Christianity could not have survived, however, Since Christianity depended for its philosophy on neoplatonism, some monks preserved a few texts, thus giving hte Church an undeserved reputation as a preserver of learning.
Mesopotamian civilizations.Early Greek philosophy, in turn, was influenced by the older wisdom literature and mythological cosmogonies of the Near East(Mesopotamians.) Like I said I'm ot tryig to bash on Ancient Greece they were a Great Civilization, but it seems we tend to give them more credit than they deserve (Eurocentrism.) This guy "croppert" makes it seem like no other civilization ever "influence" the Greeks. As if the Greeks learned nothing from anyone, which is simply not true.
yes of course the greeks were in fluenced by other civilisations but not to say that the alphabet or geometry or even filosofy! were stolen from mesopotamians . its a lie.its not objective. also think that greeks also influenced civilisations they not only were influenced.
You took what is said out of context. I DIDN'T say the Greeks STOLE technology from the Mesopotamian civilizations. Simply they were heavily influence, that's not speculation it's a matter of fact. I'm fully aware about the Ancient Greek Civilization, take it from somebody who knows Classical Antiquity I know what I'm talking about. You say what the Greeks invented, well at the same however you should take into account who invented the "roots" of it. The Greeks merely developed it further.
Oh ok, I guess the evidence that shows that they NEEDED such technology in order to accomplish the architecture they did. Shows space aliens were the ones to have left them there, not some people in Ancient Mesopotamia. Yeah and the Aztecs didnt build the pyramids in the Americas, that was space aliens, aswell. lol
All the others came from it?! You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, or else you wouldn't have said such nonsense. The Mesopotamian Civilizations pre-date the Greeks by milennia.
;-) No one predates the Greeks. Everything began in proto-hellenic civilizations even before Minoans and Myceneans. Greek civilization single handedly created the western and eastern civilizations. It's been an organised attemp to edit greeks out of history and hide the facts that prove that Maya, sumerians, babylonians and aztecs all are conected to crete ;) Many great people said so but it never came to your ears ;) honestly study and let your self free...
Not before the Mesopotamians, Ancient Egyptians and Indus civilizations, but still, Mesopotamia holds the top rank in historical achievements, not the blue-eyed reptiles of Greas.
but from whom the arabs took the ancient manusqripts??
byzantine empire transformed from a roman to greek. arabs took the manusqripts from the byzantines who saved them and gave them to westerns. after the fall of konstantinopole the educated scolars who were in byzantium and not in west went to italy.from italy and from arabs the greek ideas floutrished and then the renaisance took place.
To say that islam stole ideas from greek philosophy is to miss the point. Averroes (Ibn Rushd) did look at aristotle. He even had conflicts of interest with Al-Ghazali. However, the beauty of islam is that it is as complicated as you make it. The divine remains there, and they both believed in it..
.. The debate was around that thus within th boundaries of islam. bn Rushd had two arguments against strict believers in doctrinal reasoning. The first is the idea that rational reasoning is a heresy because it didn't exist in the early days of Islam. His argument was doctrinal reasoning was only introduced later. But it wasn't considered a heresy. The second argument was based on the Qur'an itself...
...Should a scholar work out a doctrinal reasoning from the Quran.Ibn rushd talked about rationality for reasoning of a doctrine. The mind was then a tool for knowledge, used to reason in his presenc but ine arthly matters also. Hence we should make use of those who have come before - all whilst remaining in the islamic sphere. Averroes deduced that the order from allahw as to use rationality to get knowledge. This wouldn't have gone down to well with the wahabi's hence the propaganda;)
...Should a scholar work out a doctrinal reasoning from the Quran.Ibn rushd talked about rationality for reasoning of a doctrine. The mind was then a tool for knowledge, used to reason in his presenc but ine arthly matters also. Hence we should make use of those who have come before - all whilst remaining in the islamic sphere. Averroes deduced that the order from allahw as to use rationality to get knowledge. This wouldn't have gone down to well with the wahabi's hence the propaganda;)
...Should a scholar work out a doctrinal reasoning from the Quran.Ibn rushd talked about rationality for reasoning of a doctrine. The mind was then a tool for knowledge, used to reason in his presenc but ine arthly matters also. Hence we should make use of those who have come before - all whilst remaining in the islamic sphere. Averroes deduced that the order from allahw as to use rationality to get knowledge. This wouldn't have gone down to well with the wahabi's hence the propaganda;)
The common mistake is link everything back to Greece. The Greek knowledge base didn't spring from nowhere. The scientific knowledge base of Egypt is far older and didn't stay or originate in one place. In ancient times Arabia ISN'T seperate from Africa. It was still part of many African empires. Greece isn't distant from the Middle East, or Africa. Imagine a collection of ideas, influencing, merging and moving in various directions and you have a more accurate picture of ancient knowledge.
propably the opposite happened from greece all the ideas travelled thats why many philosophers from ancient greece travelled around the world and not one came to teach in greece.also if somebody wanted to concider himself educated should studied in athens.finally all the sciences have greek names and not mesopotamian names egyptian or arabic.
islamic golden age did not follow the footsteps of aristole and greeks blindy, but challenged them, they were seekers of truth, here is a fact to prove that... from Jafar al Sadiq[702-765], the teacher of Geber[father of chemistry].
"I wonder how a man like Aristotle could say that in the world there are only four elements - Earth, Water, Fire, and Air. The Earth is not an element. It contains many elements. Each metal, which is in the earth, is an element."
emphasis: a standard medical text at many Islamic and European universities up until the early 19th century.
purpose: 4:17 "studied aristotle and began, to make a long story short, started the renaissance in europe."?
Search for these names:Al Biruni. Alhacen. Abulcasis. Averroes. Al Razi. Al Farabi. Al Kindi. Al-Jazari. Geber. Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi. [read their thoughts and comments]
Aristotle has been expressed to a larger extent in the West (Europe created the modern world) than in the East simply because Aristotle is from the West and NOT the East. And please explain how Africa today is more advanced than the Middle East.
Although what u say in this vid is true, u forget the fact that the eary Greek Civilization learned alot form the Mesopotamian Civilizations and Egypt when they were in their prime. I even dare say forms of Democracy. OMG, there it is, I said it. It goes both ways, Geographicly they were blessed. It was more a goegraphical benefit as far as I'm concerned, not that the Greeks were special. Much of what they have contributed could find its roots or at least influence in other Civilizations.Diffuse
tell me exactly what gave to greeks the mesopotamian civilisations.now if ancient greeks werent special so why they invented all the values and priciples that today civilised world follow and not the romans or the egyptians who geografically are very closed to them??
I'm not going to go on the list of tings they invented. Just look up the innovsation that the Mesopotamia Civilizaion accomplished. I'll give some, alpabet, Bronze, Iron, Geometry, Algebra, forms of democracy(Phoenic), irrigaton, philosophy(look up Babylonian philosophy.) YOU MUST REMEMBER BEFORE GREECE WOULD BECOME GREECE, THERE WERE OTHER PROSPEROUS CIVILIZAIONS: SUMERIANS, ASSYRIANS, EGYPTIANS, BABYLONIANS, PHOENICIANS. Believe it or not, the EARLY philosophers were the ones that learned from
first if you new greek you would know that mesopotamian is a greek world not assyrian,babylonian....etc.alphabet is also a greek word which is world known that the greeks invented it not the phoenicians,they had only syllables not vowls.geometry also is a greek word cause the greeks made it a science. algebra ia half arabic haif greek word it has its roots to eucleidis an ancient geometer then the arabs took this knowledge and evolutionised not the mesopotamians.
(phoenicians,they had only syllables not vowels) Exactly my point the Greeks developed it further, however they didn't invent the alphabet. The "roots" not the improvement or further development, is what I'm talking about. The BASIC forms of Geometry, Algebra is NOT a Greek innovation. Egyptians had to use Geometry in order to build the pyramids which were clearly before the Greeks. Again, I'm talking about the "roots or foundation" of these innovations, not the evolution of such technology.
finally to say filosofy isnt a greek but mesopotamian is really funny.not to say thathe word is greek. please tell me ten babylloians philosophers. i can give you hundreds of greeks.
it's sad that the muslims were so great during that age and just declined. even prophet muhammad (pbuh) said " the ink of the scholar is more precious then the blood of the martyr ". if the muslims kept religion and ruling the state seperate like the westerners did they would've been good. and i'm a muslim. however religion can sometimes be good in solving some problems.
yea. I read about it actually. Some persian lord wanted it. Persia had an enlightened age after the Arab conquest. Also a lil' story about that book. The ruler payed the book in copper instead of gold. The author who I sadly forget the ruler was 3 times 3 times 3 times 3. Which basically meant he was cheap in ancient Persian mathematical terms
Ottomans and Byzantines are the same, They ruled over largely illiterate and poorly educated populations and used religion to the strings of the people when desired.
Thats why Kemal said Turks needed to force the government out of their religion. Radical muslins are just the same as radical Christians they want a state ruled by clerics and they don't want people to evaluate the true meanings of the faith.
Indeed, many of the Muslim scientists of the Golden Age were forced into conversion, or desendants of those forced into conversion who still valued science over the tenants of religion.
It is true that scientific knowledge greatly advanced in the Islamic empires from 700-1200. However, this was something in spite of Islam and not rooted in Islam.
Islam conquered the peoples of these countries, made them dhimmis, and exploited the dhimmis knowledge (which was greater than that of the Muslims) to make their inventions.
Hey thanks a lot for the video. I think you make a good point in general. Here in the Middle-East the general (mis)conception is that "Muslims" back then never philosophized. When you look at what someone like Ibn Rushd (Averroces, I think?) wrote, you can see that he's highly influenced by Aristotle (the First Teacher, as he called him), and yet had some very original non-Aristotelian conceptions of his own.
I love "Philosophy". However, I believe it should be maintained as an achedemic. People get into trouble when they attempt to put its ideas into practice, in so far as preaching it. It's meant to be passed along, but certainly not in dogmatic fashion. Think, contemplate, reflect, and "Don't act" is my view. A world of thinkers- What a concept?
What the hell good is thinking if you never act on it? Philosophy tells how to do the most difficult tasks, so you're exactly wrong. Science and technology arte results of good philosophy. That is certainly something we could call "putting philosophy into practice."
Aristotle had no way of knowing that slavery was not necessary to civilization. Slavery was standard practice EVERYWHERE in the world until the industrial revolution, so its hard to blame any pre-industrial advocates of slavery... But Aristotle was not 100% correct. His views on women were sometimes absurd. He thought they had fewer teeth (didn't he bother to look into his wife's mouth?)
As for increasing regimentation in Islam, there was a key philosopher in Bagdad in the 800's who was addressing the conflict between reason and faith. His answer was to discard faith, saying reason is deceptive and evil. Within 50 years Islam was increasingly fundamentalist and when the Mongol hoards came, the society was too poverty stricken to resist, though a century earlier resistance prolly would have been possible.
there is an old saying in Greece that says "To know nothing is better than to know the half" Aristotle has nothing to do with the dark age Newton and Galileos stole his discovers and fought from the Cherch. In the Ancint Greece we have religious-philosho freedom they even have places dedicated to the strange Gods for the travelers(unique) Pagan Greece ??????????
The ottoman empire would have fallen much sooner to the Russian Tsars if waisnt for the backing of the British and French. "Christian forces were never unified" don't blame the infidels for the ottoman collaspe it was actually disunity within the populations of the empire that caused it to fracture.
yes, the arab world inherited aristotelian philosophy. But the arab world did not pursue the quest of science as the western world did. The western world owes islam the recuperation of so much information and knowledge. The great irony is that the islam world stagnated, and there we have arabic societies that are premodern in their view of the world.
Why are you insulting Arabs? Why are you changing words that come out of other peoples mouths? Cant you accept the fact that the US is destroying itself, and that you cant win a war when the people you are fightitng will fight until each and everyone of them has died.
If we kill them all, and some of us are still alive, we win. And they don't mind because they hate life anyway, and they want to die, so we'd be doing them a favor...
There you go!! Now, how can you say Islam has no influence on Western culture? You guys would never be able to come up with something like that. that was funny
Islam continued to spread and rule until the the late 1600's. What you call the middle east today was called europe before, eg Istanbul, previously Constantinople. Islam's dark age started with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, the reason for this was new trade routes and the unified forces of the Christian world.
I believe the last 300 or 400 years were coasting on the inertia of the past, as decay progressivly stifled the culture. By the time the Ottoman Empire collapsed, all that was left of the ancient glorious Islamic empire was a hollow, dusty shell. It fell with a quiet ruffle.
Byzantines also had the greek fire and some other things
Ottomans Piri Reis map but not some special like the ancient greeks The reason of declination of the islam golden age
is the warrior turkish and mongol hordes that conquered
the known world See Sack of Baghdad in 1258 In 1534, Baghdad was conquered by the Ottoman Turks Under the Ottomans Baghdad fell into a period of decline Baghdad was the center of Islam golden age
Quote "This government is the enemy of Ataturk," said 63-year-old Ahmet Yurdakul, a retired government employee, invoking the memory of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who founded the modern republic as a secular nation. "They want to drag Turkey to the dark ages.
You cant simplify history this easily. I respect your views but you say islamic dark ages started in the late 1100's, this is not true, The Islamic Ottoman Empire developed and manufactured many weapons which were not even known to europeans all the way up to the 1700's. They were extremely advanced in their production of naval units, agriculture, trade etc.
@CropperB Interesting videos. I like Aristotle too, btw. You were right that where he comes, societies prosper. His Ethica Nicomachea should be read by all people. It's not that hard, like the German idealists for example and it's full of everyday wisdom.
@TakeAleft Live and learn. Postmodernism is the only philosophical form, which will not survive. It will only be remembered as an example that people are ready to believe almost anything as long as it presented to them as real. Just like the spaghetti monster btw.
Simply goes to show that both of you are mentally and philosophycally still in the modern age... the rest of us have moved on to the post-modern theories...
You know nothing...read a book, Europe wasnt in a standstill... let me give you a name and a number...Karl...843...from here all hell breaks lose in Europe...so let me help you, its not how many books youll read by which book you choose... and choose different... European scientist/historians/philosophers are laughing
Not a single mathematician of note was born from 300 AD until the 1400's AD in Europe. A few important mathematicians existed in Islam at the time, but not Europe. Medicine, astronomy, philosophy and political theory all exhibit similarly dull records during Europe's Dark Age.
This guy is very biased. The power decline of the Middle East happened because the Europeans discovered a new route to Asia and new lands to exploit (the Americas).
Cable3999 3 months ago
it appears that this guy is biased into giving the impression that greeks contributed exclusively to musims, where in fact, many school of thoughts of the greeks were refuted by muslims scholars and scientists.Also muslim decine isn't due to regulation of religion it is due to devide amongst them for ruling.
warrior4just 8 months ago
The Quran encourages and supports science and seeking of knowledge no matter what the source is, when Muslims forgot the teachings of the Quran, and they still do, they lost their position in the world. However, the Quran corrected Aristotle in many things, for example the Quran mentioned the atom by weight six times, never by size like the Greeks did, and mentioned "less than an atom" twice. Also spontaneous generation for Aristotle was refuted by the Quran in my video: /watch?v=UYO9AuEhFwo
helasmoh 10 months ago
House of knowledge ? The city was Baghdad if I were not mistaken. Open-minded Muslims of that time were the best. Most of the muslims now are quite ignorant as they tend not to question things. Believing doesn't get you anywhere.
Shaheed1993 1 year ago
I like your intellectual integrity and honesty, I'll give you that. But I don't agree with your conclusion that Aristotle's philosophy was instrumental for a civilisation to advance and succeed. Ancient Greek philosophy definitely did help the Muslims, but definitely was not the sole reason for their early success.
blackstars56 1 year ago
I think it's wrong to say the infringement of Islam caused the fall of Islamic Age. Their motivation that drove them to the peak was Islam itself.
In my opinion, it's when the rulers deviate from the teaching of Islam that caused it. More details are available for those who are interested.
May Allah guides us. Amin
lemuriavi 1 year ago
...I think part of the explanation for the Christian open-mindedness vs. the Muslim closed-mindedness can be explained by the fact that in Islam anything that comes before Islam belongs to the era of "ignorance". That's why not only Greek epics and poetry were ignored but also the histories of the very peoples that had been conquered and islamized. Christians were OTOH always acutely aware of the greatness that had preceded them even though they had certain moral objections to it...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
..But it's nevertheless interesting to note the eagerness with which the post-Roman Latin West absorbed any and all knowledge without customary prejudice which was for instance present in the Muslim world and many other places. While Europeans collected tales such as the ones contained in Arabian Nights, works such as the Odyssey and the Iliad were ignored by the Muslims due to their non-Islamic nature...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
..This might have been a result of the Latin upper classes themselves writing and reading in Greek but it had far-reaching consequences. Also, another problem for the Latin West was that the Muslim conquests severed trading links with the Eastern Meditteranean meaning that papyrus was no more available to the Latin West. So, you had the additional problem of a serious shortage of writing material...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
As for the rise of the poor and undeveloped Latin West, I think this by itself is a testament to the positive influence of Christianity. Christianity was never closed towards sciences and philosophy, the problem was simply that very few books of that nature were available in Latin while OTOH knowledge of Greek was sparse at best and relations with Byzantium often strained. It's amazing that prior to Boethius in the 6tht century no works by Plato and Aristotole had been translated to Latin...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
...Also, the quality of the Arabic translations were often quite bad as the works of Aristotle and many others were reinterpreted in the process of translating as to not offend Muslim sensitivities. The result being that all today's versions are from the original Greek manuscripts that survived in Constantinople...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
...However, even many scientific works were pretty badly handled in the translation process. For instance, Plato was virtually ignored by the Muslims and most of Plato's works survived only in Constantinople. Euclid's Elements, the major mathematical treatise of ancient times, was lost in the Muslim world until they received it via Constantinople around 800 AD. That a widely known and distributed work like Euclid's Elements simply dissappeared in the Eastern Meditteranean is highly indicative...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
...I don't even view the translation of Greek works as something entirely posiive, since after all the Arabs by imposing their language and culture broke a millenium-long Greek tradition in the Eastern Mediterranean and as much was translated even more works were lost due to not them being translated into Arabic. Not to mention the well-attested Muslim disdain for all works relating to non-Muslim culture, poetry, epics, etc, which were all doomed from the start by the Muslim conquests...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
...So, the question is not how Muslims were able to live through a "Golden Age", since after all they conquered the most prosperous and thriving region in the world, collecting a lot of booty from their non-Muslim subjects in the process. The real question is how they were able to intellectually and economically ruin the Eastern Mediterranean and Persia so thoroughly, a region that had always since the times of ancient Sumer had so much wealth and intellectual "know-how"...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
Muslims conquered the most prosperous and most literate regions of the Roman Empire. Until the Muslim conquests, the Greek East was unquestionably richer and more advanced than the Latin West. When the Roman Empire split into Western and Eastern halves, Rome was already in decay and the only city on European soil worthy of mention as a center of learning was Constantinople. But Constantinople was a part of the Greek East which would prove to be a big hurdle in terms of intellectual exchange...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
I don't think its that the muslims civilisation became antagonistic towards greek thought, its that they the new empires that ruled, or the new rulers, didn't place as much emphasis on encouraging scientific endeavour and critical thinking. Eventually these things just fell out, and recently, muslims have become antogonistic towards any ideas they feel aren't islam. Its also worth pointing out that muslim society under the golden age, was a muslim state. The first muslims states, not secular.
suleydaman 1 year ago
Comment removed
suleydaman 1 year ago
It seems that the white man, is still today attempting to rewrite history.
nabeelmerchant 1 year ago
Prophet Muhammad (PEACE AND BLESSING BE UPON HIM) was NEVER LIE
valkyriez1 1 year ago
@valkyriez1 Ah, such a beautiful, peaceful muslim thing to say. I think I'll clone your channel since you speak so influentially. Would you like that? Spam all your friends and the one and only sub you have, (one sub in a year? how pathetic). Then I could go around using your 'good' name and discredit every fucking comment you've made in the last year, you lonely little piece of moslum shit.
Would you like that? I did the same to IRANEHMA and all five of his other channels, where is he now? GONE
lRANEHMA 1 year ago
Comment removed
valkyriez1 1 year ago
@valkyriez1 Why did you remove this comment you wrote?
"your father and your brother and you used to masturbate using book of ezekiel chapter 23 from your fucking holy pornography bible as material.FUCK YOUR DESCENDENT AND BURN IN HELL FIRE!!! HAHAHAHA!!U FUCKING PRICK!!"
Is this how the world is supposed to perceive muslims?
Are muslims really just a bunch of assholes who run around saying they're all about peace but in reality, easily fall to the level of a 1st grader?
muslims are hypocrites.
lRANEHMA 1 year ago
@valkyriez1 Lol! Ain't talking shit now, eh. Fucking moslum faggot. mohamad was a fucking child molester
lRANEHMA 1 year ago
U are a genius dude.
Loads of Muslims today, see so called "facts" in the Qu'ran which they think is prophesized by Muhammad.
While it is actually just copied from Ancient Greek literature.
Mainly from the Hippocratic Oath (Corpus) which was translated to Syrian about 60 years before Muhammad was born.
SilveradoNL 1 year ago
@SilveradoNL you are soo wrong,prophet Muhammad (PEACE AND BLESSING BE UPON HIM) was cannot read,at that time there was no microscope or electronic microscope.
valkyriez1 1 year ago
africa was not called the dark continent,because it was backward,it was call that why because most of europe did not know about it in the 1800's.africa has advanced civilizations too.
CELL111able 1 year ago
Ibn Avicenna-Best theologian ever
CoombesKidd 1 year ago
Not all Muslim countries are backwards and shitty, believe it or not.
ArabianInnovation 2 years ago 7
peace and blessings brothers and sisters.
maybe you would like to make me happy and watch
my video
sofianbelhedi 3 years ago
When Chrisitanity achieved state power in Rome, the Church went on a two centuries' long orgy of destruction of all things pagan, including their colleges and libraries. This was a big factor in the resulting Dark Ages. Christianity could not have survived, however, Since Christianity depended for its philosophy on neoplatonism, some monks preserved a few texts, thus giving hte Church an undeserved reputation as a preserver of learning.
pirbird14 3 years ago
Mesopotamian civilizations.Early Greek philosophy, in turn, was influenced by the older wisdom literature and mythological cosmogonies of the Near East(Mesopotamians.) Like I said I'm ot tryig to bash on Ancient Greece they were a Great Civilization, but it seems we tend to give them more credit than they deserve (Eurocentrism.) This guy "croppert" makes it seem like no other civilization ever "influence" the Greeks. As if the Greeks learned nothing from anyone, which is simply not true.
amdturion123 3 years ago
yes of course the greeks were in fluenced by other civilisations but not to say that the alphabet or geometry or even filosofy! were stolen from mesopotamians . its a lie.its not objective. also think that greeks also influenced civilisations they not only were influenced.
aris0978 3 years ago
You took what is said out of context. I DIDN'T say the Greeks STOLE technology from the Mesopotamian civilizations. Simply they were heavily influence, that's not speculation it's a matter of fact. I'm fully aware about the Ancient Greek Civilization, take it from somebody who knows Classical Antiquity I know what I'm talking about. You say what the Greeks invented, well at the same however you should take into account who invented the "roots" of it. The Greeks merely developed it further.
amdturion123 3 years ago
All the evidence show that the "roots" of civilization were in Greece. Some people try to twist history.
00Daimon00 3 years ago
I thought it was africa?
5starskills 3 years ago
Tell me one egyptian dogtor. Name me one mesopotamian philosopher. Do you know any assyrians mathematician?
I can tell you hundreds of Greek.
Greece is the cratle of civilization people don't believe in lies.
00Daimon00 3 years ago
Oh ok, I guess the evidence that shows that they NEEDED such technology in order to accomplish the architecture they did. Shows space aliens were the ones to have left them there, not some people in Ancient Mesopotamia. Yeah and the Aztecs didnt build the pyramids in the Americas, that was space aliens, aswell. lol
amdturion123 3 years ago
I will make it simple for you. GREEK CIVILIZATION IS THE MOST ANCIENT ONE. All the other ones came from it.
00Daimon00 3 years ago
All the others came from it?! You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, or else you wouldn't have said such nonsense. The Mesopotamian Civilizations pre-date the Greeks by milennia.
amdturion123 3 years ago
;-) No one predates the Greeks. Everything began in proto-hellenic civilizations even before Minoans and Myceneans. Greek civilization single handedly created the western and eastern civilizations. It's been an organised attemp to edit greeks out of history and hide the facts that prove that Maya, sumerians, babylonians and aztecs all are conected to crete ;) Many great people said so but it never came to your ears ;) honestly study and let your self free...
00Daimon00 3 years ago
I can't argue againts such nonsense. Let's leave it at that.
amdturion123 3 years ago
Don't argue but study the non-sense and it will become sence. Search for the truth without any prejudice ;)
00Daimon00 3 years ago
Comment removed
suleydaman 2 years ago
Not before the Mesopotamians, Ancient Egyptians and Indus civilizations, but still, Mesopotamia holds the top rank in historical achievements, not the blue-eyed reptiles of Greas.
WmnRights 2 years ago
Not according to Herodotus. Where are you getting your information from?
cunamarra 2 years ago
also byzantium didnt have dark ages as the rest of europe
aris0978 3 years ago
but from whom the arabs took the ancient manusqripts??
byzantine empire transformed from a roman to greek. arabs took the manusqripts from the byzantines who saved them and gave them to westerns. after the fall of konstantinopole the educated scolars who were in byzantium and not in west went to italy.from italy and from arabs the greek ideas floutrished and then the renaisance took place.
aris0978 3 years ago
To say that islam stole ideas from greek philosophy is to miss the point. Averroes (Ibn Rushd) did look at aristotle. He even had conflicts of interest with Al-Ghazali. However, the beauty of islam is that it is as complicated as you make it. The divine remains there, and they both believed in it..
zanos 3 years ago
.. The debate was around that thus within th boundaries of islam. bn Rushd had two arguments against strict believers in doctrinal reasoning. The first is the idea that rational reasoning is a heresy because it didn't exist in the early days of Islam. His argument was doctrinal reasoning was only introduced later. But it wasn't considered a heresy. The second argument was based on the Qur'an itself...
zanos 3 years ago
...Should a scholar work out a doctrinal reasoning from the Quran.Ibn rushd talked about rationality for reasoning of a doctrine. The mind was then a tool for knowledge, used to reason in his presenc but ine arthly matters also. Hence we should make use of those who have come before - all whilst remaining in the islamic sphere. Averroes deduced that the order from allahw as to use rationality to get knowledge. This wouldn't have gone down to well with the wahabi's hence the propaganda;)
zanos 3 years ago
...Should a scholar work out a doctrinal reasoning from the Quran.Ibn rushd talked about rationality for reasoning of a doctrine. The mind was then a tool for knowledge, used to reason in his presenc but ine arthly matters also. Hence we should make use of those who have come before - all whilst remaining in the islamic sphere. Averroes deduced that the order from allahw as to use rationality to get knowledge. This wouldn't have gone down to well with the wahabi's hence the propaganda;)
zanos 3 years ago
...Should a scholar work out a doctrinal reasoning from the Quran.Ibn rushd talked about rationality for reasoning of a doctrine. The mind was then a tool for knowledge, used to reason in his presenc but ine arthly matters also. Hence we should make use of those who have come before - all whilst remaining in the islamic sphere. Averroes deduced that the order from allahw as to use rationality to get knowledge. This wouldn't have gone down to well with the wahabi's hence the propaganda;)
zanos 3 years ago
All I can say there has been a seperation between church and state that took so long to establish we can not lose it now
suecoleoriginal 3 years ago 2
The common mistake is link everything back to Greece. The Greek knowledge base didn't spring from nowhere. The scientific knowledge base of Egypt is far older and didn't stay or originate in one place. In ancient times Arabia ISN'T seperate from Africa. It was still part of many African empires. Greece isn't distant from the Middle East, or Africa. Imagine a collection of ideas, influencing, merging and moving in various directions and you have a more accurate picture of ancient knowledge.
jokerjay 3 years ago
propably the opposite happened from greece all the ideas travelled thats why many philosophers from ancient greece travelled around the world and not one came to teach in greece.also if somebody wanted to concider himself educated should studied in athens.finally all the sciences have greek names and not mesopotamian names egyptian or arabic.
aris0978 3 years ago
The House of wisdom you spoke about was in the city of Baghdad which would eventually get sacked by Hulagu Khan and his mongol army in 1258.
rencrow 4 years ago
i would love and await for your comments
jigarsalman 4 years ago
islamic golden age did not follow the footsteps of aristole and greeks blindy, but challenged them, they were seekers of truth, here is a fact to prove that... from Jafar al Sadiq[702-765], the teacher of Geber[father of chemistry].
"I wonder how a man like Aristotle could say that in the world there are only four elements - Earth, Water, Fire, and Air. The Earth is not an element. It contains many elements. Each metal, which is in the earth, is an element."
jigarsalman 4 years ago 2
name: Ibn sina or Avicenna
work: the canon of medicine
emphasis: a standard medical text at many Islamic and European universities up until the early 19th century.
purpose: 4:17 "studied aristotle and began, to make a long story short, started the renaissance in europe."?
Search for these names:Al Biruni. Alhacen. Abulcasis. Averroes. Al Razi. Al Farabi. Al Kindi. Al-Jazari. Geber. Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi. [read their thoughts and comments]
jigarsalman 4 years ago
very good and new for me
i always thought the oriental sultanism
and the mentality created by sultan-tyrans made the middle east backward
and im still not really convinced
could it be that their mentality is the cause which made them suck up
islams docmas so thoroughly
in short:
you say islam's influence grew thats why aristotle's influence vanished
but why did islam's influence grow? Why not aristotle's influence?
unbehagen1000 4 years ago
Aristotle has been expressed to a larger extent in the West (Europe created the modern world) than in the East simply because Aristotle is from the West and NOT the East. And please explain how Africa today is more advanced than the Middle East.
tigerfish03 4 years ago
"And please explain how Africa today is more advanced than the Middle East."
Measured by economic output, the mid East is far behind Africa.
cropperb 4 years ago
Although what u say in this vid is true, u forget the fact that the eary Greek Civilization learned alot form the Mesopotamian Civilizations and Egypt when they were in their prime. I even dare say forms of Democracy. OMG, there it is, I said it. It goes both ways, Geographicly they were blessed. It was more a goegraphical benefit as far as I'm concerned, not that the Greeks were special. Much of what they have contributed could find its roots or at least influence in other Civilizations.Diffuse
amdturion123 3 years ago
tell me exactly what gave to greeks the mesopotamian civilisations.now if ancient greeks werent special so why they invented all the values and priciples that today civilised world follow and not the romans or the egyptians who geografically are very closed to them??
aris0978 3 years ago
I'm not going to go on the list of tings they invented. Just look up the innovsation that the Mesopotamia Civilizaion accomplished. I'll give some, alpabet, Bronze, Iron, Geometry, Algebra, forms of democracy(Phoenic), irrigaton, philosophy(look up Babylonian philosophy.) YOU MUST REMEMBER BEFORE GREECE WOULD BECOME GREECE, THERE WERE OTHER PROSPEROUS CIVILIZAIONS: SUMERIANS, ASSYRIANS, EGYPTIANS, BABYLONIANS, PHOENICIANS. Believe it or not, the EARLY philosophers were the ones that learned from
amdturion123 3 years ago
first if you new greek you would know that mesopotamian is a greek world not assyrian,babylonian....etc.alphabet is also a greek word which is world known that the greeks invented it not the phoenicians,they had only syllables not vowls.geometry also is a greek word cause the greeks made it a science. algebra ia half arabic haif greek word it has its roots to eucleidis an ancient geometer then the arabs took this knowledge and evolutionised not the mesopotamians.
aris0978 3 years ago
(phoenicians,they had only syllables not vowels) Exactly my point the Greeks developed it further, however they didn't invent the alphabet. The "roots" not the improvement or further development, is what I'm talking about. The BASIC forms of Geometry, Algebra is NOT a Greek innovation. Egyptians had to use Geometry in order to build the pyramids which were clearly before the Greeks. Again, I'm talking about the "roots or foundation" of these innovations, not the evolution of such technology.
amdturion123 3 years ago
finally to say filosofy isnt a greek but mesopotamian is really funny.not to say thathe word is greek. please tell me ten babylloians philosophers. i can give you hundreds of greeks.
aris0978 3 years ago
it's sad that the muslims were so great during that age and just declined. even prophet muhammad (pbuh) said " the ink of the scholar is more precious then the blood of the martyr ". if the muslims kept religion and ruling the state seperate like the westerners did they would've been good. and i'm a muslim. however religion can sometimes be good in solving some problems.
qadi0 4 years ago
"however religion can sometimes be good in solving some problems."
o_0 ?
cropperb 4 years ago
The city you talk about was in ancient Persia I think
CrazyShakaZulu 4 years ago
Ancient Persia as opposed to modern Iraq?
cropperb 4 years ago
yea. I read about it actually. Some persian lord wanted it. Persia had an enlightened age after the Arab conquest. Also a lil' story about that book. The ruler payed the book in copper instead of gold. The author who I sadly forget the ruler was 3 times 3 times 3 times 3. Which basically meant he was cheap in ancient Persian mathematical terms
CrazyShakaZulu 4 years ago
@CrazyShakaZulu The City he was talking about was Baghdad ;)
kz456456 1 year ago
Ottomans and Byzantines are the same, They ruled over largely illiterate and poorly educated populations and used religion to the strings of the people when desired.
Thats why Kemal said Turks needed to force the government out of their religion. Radical muslins are just the same as radical Christians they want a state ruled by clerics and they don't want people to evaluate the true meanings of the faith.
SultanBorat 4 years ago
Indeed, many of the Muslim scientists of the Golden Age were forced into conversion, or desendants of those forced into conversion who still valued science over the tenants of religion.
genius2687 4 years ago
It is true that scientific knowledge greatly advanced in the Islamic empires from 700-1200. However, this was something in spite of Islam and not rooted in Islam.
Islam conquered the peoples of these countries, made them dhimmis, and exploited the dhimmis knowledge (which was greater than that of the Muslims) to make their inventions.
genius2687 4 years ago
Wonderful!
meachanDEE 4 years ago
Hey thanks a lot for the video. I think you make a good point in general. Here in the Middle-East the general (mis)conception is that "Muslims" back then never philosophized. When you look at what someone like Ibn Rushd (Averroces, I think?) wrote, you can see that he's highly influenced by Aristotle (the First Teacher, as he called him), and yet had some very original non-Aristotelian conceptions of his own.
NihilAdmirari 4 years ago
I love "Philosophy". However, I believe it should be maintained as an achedemic. People get into trouble when they attempt to put its ideas into practice, in so far as preaching it. It's meant to be passed along, but certainly not in dogmatic fashion. Think, contemplate, reflect, and "Don't act" is my view. A world of thinkers- What a concept?
bpope123 4 years ago
What the hell good is thinking if you never act on it? Philosophy tells how to do the most difficult tasks, so you're exactly wrong. Science and technology arte results of good philosophy. That is certainly something we could call "putting philosophy into practice."
cropperb 4 years ago
interseting
do you have any examples of how religion in the Islamic world became more regimented, and restrctive?
also how do we reconcile Aristotles view on slavery and women in the light of current modern thinking?
ijiva 4 years ago
Aristotle had no way of knowing that slavery was not necessary to civilization. Slavery was standard practice EVERYWHERE in the world until the industrial revolution, so its hard to blame any pre-industrial advocates of slavery... But Aristotle was not 100% correct. His views on women were sometimes absurd. He thought they had fewer teeth (didn't he bother to look into his wife's mouth?)
cropperb 4 years ago
As for increasing regimentation in Islam, there was a key philosopher in Bagdad in the 800's who was addressing the conflict between reason and faith. His answer was to discard faith, saying reason is deceptive and evil. Within 50 years Islam was increasingly fundamentalist and when the Mongol hoards came, the society was too poverty stricken to resist, though a century earlier resistance prolly would have been possible.
cropperb 4 years ago
there is an old saying in Greece that says "To know nothing is better than to know the half" Aristotle has nothing to do with the dark age Newton and Galileos stole his discovers and fought from the Cherch. In the Ancint Greece we have religious-philosho freedom they even have places dedicated to the strange Gods for the travelers(unique) Pagan Greece ??????????
xaramano 4 years ago
Aristotle has more relation to Islam than Christianity as you see..
You don't like Pagan Greece.Non-christian is better?
Theon70 4 years ago
that was very interesting... thank you.
MeshMo 4 years ago
whoever possesses and understands the ancient Greek knowledge rules the world thats it
zigsauer 4 years ago
The ottoman empire would have fallen much sooner to the Russian Tsars if waisnt for the backing of the British and French. "Christian forces were never unified" don't blame the infidels for the ottoman collaspe it was actually disunity within the populations of the empire that caused it to fracture.
SultanBorat 4 years ago
The Ottoman Empire collapsed because it was not secular.
Any society that rules on the integration of religion and state is doomed to fail.
genius2687 4 years ago
Enlightening video. If you ever go back in time, be sure to give the Caliph a copy of Atlas Shrugged - you'll make a fortune.
allthatyousee17 4 years ago
yes, the arab world inherited aristotelian philosophy. But the arab world did not pursue the quest of science as the western world did. The western world owes islam the recuperation of so much information and knowledge. The great irony is that the islam world stagnated, and there we have arabic societies that are premodern in their view of the world.
trr12 5 years ago
Premodern is a nice was of saying backward and barbaric. I concur.
cropperb 5 years ago
Why are you insulting Arabs? Why are you changing words that come out of other peoples mouths? Cant you accept the fact that the US is destroying itself, and that you cant win a war when the people you are fightitng will fight until each and everyone of them has died.
emraheren2 5 years ago
If we kill them all, and some of us are still alive, we win. And they don't mind because they hate life anyway, and they want to die, so we'd be doing them a favor...
cropperb 5 years ago
Do me a favour and throw yourself in a crowd of Arabs
emraheren2 5 years ago
Whith an explosives belt? Ha ha... that was kinda funny...
cropperb 4 years ago
There you go!! Now, how can you say Islam has no influence on Western culture? You guys would never be able to come up with something like that. that was funny
emraheren2 4 years ago
Islam continued to spread and rule until the the late 1600's. What you call the middle east today was called europe before, eg Istanbul, previously Constantinople. Islam's dark age started with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, the reason for this was new trade routes and the unified forces of the Christian world.
emraheren2 5 years ago
I believe the last 300 or 400 years were coasting on the inertia of the past, as decay progressivly stifled the culture. By the time the Ottoman Empire collapsed, all that was left of the ancient glorious Islamic empire was a hollow, dusty shell. It fell with a quiet ruffle.
cropperb 5 years ago
please give specific dates, i cant follow your argument otherwise.
emraheren2 5 years ago
"Fall of the Ottoman Empire" isn't specific enough?
cropperb 5 years ago
400 years is not realistic, maybe 200 is true. It fell in 1923, but the decay didnt really tart until 1750.
emraheren2 5 years ago
Ottoman empire is similar to Byzantium
Byzantines also had the greek fire and some other things
Ottomans Piri Reis map but not some special like the ancient greeks The reason of declination of the islam golden age
is the warrior turkish and mongol hordes that conquered
the known world See Sack of Baghdad in 1258 In 1534, Baghdad was conquered by the Ottoman Turks Under the Ottomans Baghdad fell into a period of decline Baghdad was the center of Islam golden age
Theon70 4 years ago
Quote "This government is the enemy of Ataturk," said 63-year-old Ahmet Yurdakul, a retired government employee, invoking the memory of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who founded the modern republic as a secular nation. "They want to drag Turkey to the dark ages.
WHO ARE THESE DARK AGES BUT OTTOMAN ONES?
Religion defeated Science in ottoman empire
(Read Halil Inalcik)
Theon70 4 years ago
You are right
emraheren2 4 years ago
You cant simplify history this easily. I respect your views but you say islamic dark ages started in the late 1100's, this is not true, The Islamic Ottoman Empire developed and manufactured many weapons which were not even known to europeans all the way up to the 1700's. They were extremely advanced in their production of naval units, agriculture, trade etc.
emraheren2 5 years ago
@CropperB Interesting videos. I like Aristotle too, btw. You were right that where he comes, societies prosper. His Ethica Nicomachea should be read by all people. It's not that hard, like the German idealists for example and it's full of everyday wisdom.
rutgerjimmyjayjay 5 years ago
@TakeAleft Live and learn. Postmodernism is the only philosophical form, which will not survive. It will only be remembered as an example that people are ready to believe almost anything as long as it presented to them as real. Just like the spaghetti monster btw.
rutgerjimmyjayjay 5 years ago
Hey! I happen to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, thank you very much.
cropperb 5 years ago
Simply goes to show that both of you are mentally and philosophycally still in the modern age... the rest of us have moved on to the post-modern theories...
TakeAleft 5 years ago
TakeALeft, you seem insane.
MetaMorphy 5 years ago
Ha ha! That's what I was thinking!!!
cropperb 5 years ago
You know nothing...read a book, Europe wasnt in a standstill... let me give you a name and a number...Karl...843...from here all hell breaks lose in Europe...so let me help you, its not how many books youll read by which book you choose... and choose different... European scientist/historians/philosophers are laughing
TakeAleft 5 years ago
Not a single mathematician of note was born from 300 AD until the 1400's AD in Europe. A few important mathematicians existed in Islam at the time, but not Europe. Medicine, astronomy, philosophy and political theory all exhibit similarly dull records during Europe's Dark Age.
cropperb 5 years ago
Leonardo Fibonacci. You are wrong for once.
snuffydoug 5 years ago
You got me. I rescind. Let me revise the above dates as 300 AD to 1200 AD. That's still nearly 900 years without mathematicians of note...
cropperb 5 years ago