About air suspension. Take a look at Toyotas new Kinetic vs D3's air suspension. Much more wheel travel in Toyota, much more stability on road in Toyota.
In terms of comfort. I'm sure that Land Rover still wins.
the ETC system with torque biasing diffs is fantastic as the ETC confuses the diffs into locking, so front and rear detroit true tracs or quaife ATB's with ETC is the way to go as their is no driver intervention needed and does not effect on road performance.
Thing is that Land Rover is all the time showing the capabilities with this kind of shows everywhere, and all the time prooving the perfomance, where Toyota aint doing the same. So it gives for you a totally wrong illusion. Japanese 4x4's would do that spot with ease. =)
only if it was locked,toyotas traction control system isn't as smooth,because there not designed to be,there designed to be rugged,the range rover will do anything a modern land cruiser will do but smoother,and slightly more.Because the range rover has better extiour dimionsions,and of the two,is the only suv that offers a rear diff lock(or at least in north america)plus toyotas market is based heavily on fuel efficant cars,which is probably the reason why they don't do stuff like this
Mitsubishi Pajero, L200, Nissan Patrol, Toyota Hilux, all these Japanese 4x4's have as stock 100% locking rear and center diffs. So I dont know how range is the "only" lol. Also these car's TC's works very well.
Range weights a lot, and thats makes it poor on soft terrains compared to its rivals. It sinks and gets much easier stuck on soft. Mud, snow, sand. ;) But still, I like range, its a very nice car. But gotta be realistic and not make up illusions about something that doesnt exist.
have you seen any other range rover off road videos,that are actualy done off road,they do very well,and none of the japanses suvs you described are not sold in north america,and by "only one"i meant the land cruiser 200,which isn't even sold in canada,plus the range rover is commonly seen stuck only because of the tires,and in 2007 they reseived terrain respose system,witch allows the tc to work better in mud,sand and snow by allowing the wheels to slip,
Of course I have seen, I wouldnt coment without knowing. But, this is worldwide discussion board, I live in Europe, how I can know which models are sold there? I just said, that Range Rover is not so special as you trying to make it in terms of offroad perfomance. It is good. But Range Rover is mainly based for being a very luxurious car and it is very comfort to travel with, anywhere. Tires: If we compare a jap with stock tires, of course also Range with stock tires, or better tires for both.
About toyotas TC: The crawl control is very smooth.
But I am not Land Cruiser fanatic. I think the LC200 is too big to be a proper offroader. But many other japanese 4x4's are still good. Like the Land Cruiser 70 series.
the problem with toyota tc is that it dosen't adapt to all terrains,like land rovers terrian response does,so mud can be a problem,plus theres no electronic rear diff lock,or at least in north america.
Locking Diffs are redundant now with 4 wheel ETC. The system in the RR detects an airborne wheel and applys the brakes, sending 100% of the drive to the wheel in contact with the ground. A locked diff does not stop the airborne wheel from turning, it sends 50% of the power to the wheel on the ground.
ETC and Air Suspension is an unmatched combination. No argument really.
Locking diff is better, because it sends the power constantly. Example on soft terrains or on steep and very bumpy hill, where you have to go with speed, the traction control does not have enough time to react. Fully locked diff keeps the power all the time on all four wheels.
I don't think that there is need to argue about that, which is better, TC or Locking diff. Everyone know that locked diff is better. TC is good because it is easy, and you no need to turn it off when turning.
And one thing more, TC does not change the differential, that is wrong. 50% of torque will go on both wheels, also with TC, when one wheel is on air. Difference is that, on the side where the TC acts, the brake converts the moving power to heat by using brakes. So 50% of the drive, will be totally useless, heat. With both, TC and locked diff, only 50% of torque goes to other wheel. No more.
You need active diff, like used in Mitsubishi Evo's to change the % ratio that diff distributes.
Yes those who knod how unreliable, how uncapapble, and how heavy landies are.
Range Rover is extremely heavy compared to its size. Thats why it sucks hard compared to Japanese 4x4's on soft terrains, like mud etc. =) Weight is not benefit when offroading.
weight had nothing to do with that video on youtube about the weight,the reason it wouldn't move is because the stabilty control would apply the brakes to any wheel that sliped,witch on mud is all of the wheels , you have to turn it off to go anywhere,the driver obviously didn't knowthat,in 2007 the added terrain response system,which ajusts the amout off wheel slip solving that problem,plus that was the year the introduced a rear diff lock!!
Weight. Think if you are on soft sand. You have small tires. A light car vs heavy car. The heavy sinks, lighter doesnt. Why people put bigger tires when they go offroading especially on mud? One reason is to share the weight on larger area. Small pressure for terrain, keeps the car "floating". What heavier car that easier it sinks if the tire size is the same.
Updated terrain response doesnt help. Stability or traction control doesnt help. They cant change the physics laws.
Yeps, :) but ESP does not add offroad perfomance, ESP = Electronic Stability Program, only thing it is meant to do is make handling better in highspeed driving and prevent accidents.
TC is Traction Control, it does the job.
Most other SUV's arent Ranges weight, that is reason why they often are better. Range would be clearly the best in its class if it were lighter, and if it were more reliable. Now its best things are the style, and comfrot, especially interior is fantastic. ;)
About air suspension. Take a look at Toyotas new Kinetic vs D3's air suspension. Much more wheel travel in Toyota, much more stability on road in Toyota.
In terms of comfort. I'm sure that Land Rover still wins.
offfiman 2 years ago 2
the ETC system with torque biasing diffs is fantastic as the ETC confuses the diffs into locking, so front and rear detroit true tracs or quaife ATB's with ETC is the way to go as their is no driver intervention needed and does not effect on road performance.
johnsteele23 2 years ago
Look mom! 2 Wheels!
undertake782 3 years ago
Land Cruisers are probably as amazing this.. Jeeps are w.e
AcerOner 3 years ago
well the thing about landcrusiers are that you expect them to be good off roaders,the range rover just seems to amaze me m,ore
rangerover06sc 3 years ago
Thing is that Land Rover is all the time showing the capabilities with this kind of shows everywhere, and all the time prooving the perfomance, where Toyota aint doing the same. So it gives for you a totally wrong illusion. Japanese 4x4's would do that spot with ease. =)
offfiman 2 years ago
only if it was locked,toyotas traction control system isn't as smooth,because there not designed to be,there designed to be rugged,the range rover will do anything a modern land cruiser will do but smoother,and slightly more.Because the range rover has better extiour dimionsions,and of the two,is the only suv that offers a rear diff lock(or at least in north america)plus toyotas market is based heavily on fuel efficant cars,which is probably the reason why they don't do stuff like this
rangerover06sc 2 years ago
Mitsubishi Pajero, L200, Nissan Patrol, Toyota Hilux, all these Japanese 4x4's have as stock 100% locking rear and center diffs. So I dont know how range is the "only" lol. Also these car's TC's works very well.
Range weights a lot, and thats makes it poor on soft terrains compared to its rivals. It sinks and gets much easier stuck on soft. Mud, snow, sand. ;) But still, I like range, its a very nice car. But gotta be realistic and not make up illusions about something that doesnt exist.
offfiman 2 years ago
have you seen any other range rover off road videos,that are actualy done off road,they do very well,and none of the japanses suvs you described are not sold in north america,and by "only one"i meant the land cruiser 200,which isn't even sold in canada,plus the range rover is commonly seen stuck only because of the tires,and in 2007 they reseived terrain respose system,witch allows the tc to work better in mud,sand and snow by allowing the wheels to slip,
rangerover06sc 2 years ago
Of course I have seen, I wouldnt coment without knowing. But, this is worldwide discussion board, I live in Europe, how I can know which models are sold there? I just said, that Range Rover is not so special as you trying to make it in terms of offroad perfomance. It is good. But Range Rover is mainly based for being a very luxurious car and it is very comfort to travel with, anywhere. Tires: If we compare a jap with stock tires, of course also Range with stock tires, or better tires for both.
offfiman 2 years ago
About toyotas TC: The crawl control is very smooth.
But I am not Land Cruiser fanatic. I think the LC200 is too big to be a proper offroader. But many other japanese 4x4's are still good. Like the Land Cruiser 70 series.
offfiman 2 years ago
the problem with toyota tc is that it dosen't adapt to all terrains,like land rovers terrian response does,so mud can be a problem,plus theres no electronic rear diff lock,or at least in north america.
rangerover06sc 2 years ago
Yes, but for that problem there is locking diffs available in other models. :)
And toyota being lighter, it already goes a bit better on soft with the same tire size.
offfiman 2 years ago
Locking Diffs are redundant now with 4 wheel ETC. The system in the RR detects an airborne wheel and applys the brakes, sending 100% of the drive to the wheel in contact with the ground. A locked diff does not stop the airborne wheel from turning, it sends 50% of the power to the wheel on the ground.
ETC and Air Suspension is an unmatched combination. No argument really.
DanUK1984 2 years ago
Locking diff is better, because it sends the power constantly. Example on soft terrains or on steep and very bumpy hill, where you have to go with speed, the traction control does not have enough time to react. Fully locked diff keeps the power all the time on all four wheels.
I don't think that there is need to argue about that, which is better, TC or Locking diff. Everyone know that locked diff is better. TC is good because it is easy, and you no need to turn it off when turning.
offfiman 2 years ago
And one thing more, TC does not change the differential, that is wrong. 50% of torque will go on both wheels, also with TC, when one wheel is on air. Difference is that, on the side where the TC acts, the brake converts the moving power to heat by using brakes. So 50% of the drive, will be totally useless, heat. With both, TC and locked diff, only 50% of torque goes to other wheel. No more.
You need active diff, like used in Mitsubishi Evo's to change the % ratio that diff distributes.
offfiman 2 years ago
the pride and joy of owning and driving a LR! for those who know, know. those who don't, can stick with their jeep, or even worse, Japanese wannabe.
210kmh 4 years ago
Yes those who knod how unreliable, how uncapapble, and how heavy landies are.
Range Rover is extremely heavy compared to its size. Thats why it sucks hard compared to Japanese 4x4's on soft terrains, like mud etc. =) Weight is not benefit when offroading.
offfiman 2 years ago
weight had nothing to do with that video on youtube about the weight,the reason it wouldn't move is because the stabilty control would apply the brakes to any wheel that sliped,witch on mud is all of the wheels , you have to turn it off to go anywhere,the driver obviously didn't knowthat,in 2007 the added terrain response system,which ajusts the amout off wheel slip solving that problem,plus that was the year the introduced a rear diff lock!!
rangerover06sc 2 years ago
Weight. Think if you are on soft sand. You have small tires. A light car vs heavy car. The heavy sinks, lighter doesnt. Why people put bigger tires when they go offroading especially on mud? One reason is to share the weight on larger area. Small pressure for terrain, keeps the car "floating". What heavier car that easier it sinks if the tire size is the same.
Updated terrain response doesnt help. Stability or traction control doesnt help. They cant change the physics laws.
offfiman 2 years ago
tc and esp does help,a bit though,but it does better then most suvs its size and weight.
rangerover06sc 2 years ago
Yeps, :) but ESP does not add offroad perfomance, ESP = Electronic Stability Program, only thing it is meant to do is make handling better in highspeed driving and prevent accidents.
TC is Traction Control, it does the job.
Most other SUV's arent Ranges weight, that is reason why they often are better. Range would be clearly the best in its class if it were lighter, and if it were more reliable. Now its best things are the style, and comfrot, especially interior is fantastic. ;)
offfiman 2 years ago