@jordanowen42 I got the point you made about making the erroneous connection between the Islamic center 6 blocks from ground zero and the plane that hi-jackers crashed into the twin towers. All your talk about tolerance is meaningless after having made that statement about camel fuckers.
@ZenaSTAR18 Actually no- to be a male performer in porn you have to be able to get your dick up on cue and shoot your load on cue. Few men can do it well enough to be in porn and that's why you keep seeing the same male performers- Evan Stone, Rocco Siffredi, Keni Styles, etc, in everything: they are the few and the proud. I take the standard amount of time to get it up and shoot my load- they wouldn't want me.
@ZenaSTAR18 Yes- that was certainly contemptuous but it wasn't racist- their race was never called into question. Furthermore, you've clearly missed the reason I took that approach to the argument in the first place: that its okay to be offended.
Consent is the absolute final complete and unquestionable maxim with regards to sexual conduct. If all parties have consented, no third party may interfere with their interactions. Consent = Right. Period.
@ZenaSTAR18 Exactly what did I say that was racist? As for porn, as long as it involves consenting adults, what is and is not "okay" is a matter of personal taste as is what is and is not vulgar. I'm not a Max Hardcore fan myself, but he should not have gone to jail for what he did.
Nothing to do with faith or religion. It's to do with the american government needing an excuse for war through using a false flag operation such as that of northwoods back in the sixties. its public information
the people who crashed the planes into the twin towers ( assuming all the consparies theories are wrong) calling those terrorist muslim is offensive to all muslims.I doubt it would be this much controverse if it was a christian chruch.I think some people who are opposed to the building of the mosque is more scared then anything
Yeah but what about the innocent Muslim who were killed on 9-11? Why should they lose their natural rights as citizens due to the actions of others who claim the are the same religion? I mean clearly they are not the same religion as in one you kill and die for Allah and dont give a f**k but in the other you follow the laws of the land. Plus people really know that 9-11 happened due to fighting over land and for political reasons not due to religion.
But apart from the 9/11 implications I'd like to turn the table round& claim that u yourself have no valid reasons WHY muslims should have the right to build a mosque just there. If u believe that they have such a right due 2 religious freedom, then Christians,Jews,Hindus,Buddhis ts or Sikhs have the same right 2 build their holy places of worship there. As obviously this wld b impossible no 1 has this right as a right only given to muslims would mean an unjustified privilege.
@DreamFreedom1 Your use of numbers in place of words makes you hard 2 follow. In any case, yes, all those people have the same right to build their buildings wherever they want. The Muslims are building there because they own the land and in this country we respect property rights. I don't see how this is similar to allowing Adolf Hitler to come to power and if you start taking peoples rights away on the basis that they might become Hitler, then you're being something of a Hitler yourself.
@DreamFreedom1 I'd like to see the Sikhs put up the money to be allowed to build a temple. And the idealism behind the heart of this country implies that every one of those religions DOES have the same right. What you should be asking yourself is who is in bed with the right people to allow a mosque there instead of a church, monastery, or synagogue.
Yeah, I read the whole text, and I don't really understand what you are saying.
To make my position clear, while I, like the maker of this video, while I find the construction of that mosque/community center offensive, I am yet to see any valid argument whatsoever to exercise government power to stop it from being built there.
The Muslims have a right to build their Mosque at wherever they please.
Christian fundamentalist have the right to preach "God hates fags" and "abortion should be made illegal" as long as no physical threats of violence are carried out. They have the right to build as long as they are not threatening anyone.
If you make building mosque Illegal in the USA, then you prove yourself no different from the Muslim extremist in 3rd world contries.
Thats bullshit Jewish propaganda.The mosque should not be built because it makes it seem like it was the muslims who brought down those buildings,when in reality it was an inside job.Muslims aren't trying to takeover America,its that criminal government lead by Isreal and the NWO who has hijacked america.
I don't think 9/11 was fundamentalists vs. free thinkers, it was fundamentalists vs. other types of fundamentalists - with many free thinkers dying in the bargain. No religion is of peace. However, I think we have to allow the mosque to go up unless it goes against some kind of pre-existing zoneing rules. If people are going to be stupid (i.e. w/ religion) I'd rather they do so where we can see them.
I was always taught not 2 lower urself 2 others levels as u say but wher does taste come into it. and the fact that Islam has a history of triumphantalism manifested in building mosques over victory sites th taste factor really comes into it.. ths people really believe in a form of apartheid + world domination. dar al harb + dar al islam, house of war and house of submission. could I stand by and watch S/A apartheid as you would say and tolerate but not accept S/A some thing u never accept
That mosque has been build for one reason. Provocation. Why? Because it got financed not by American but by Saudi's. Holland granted 1 million euro to that organisation ASMA to prefent woman getting their clits get cut off. First question. Why don't they spend 100 million $ on that. Instead they "spend" 1 million euro of our money on mascara and next they build that prestige shit on a place that pisses you American off. Their provocating, after that they'll scream racism.
it's not really offensive. To consider folks gathering to worship a "god" is rather pathetic and nothing else. The first amendment? They will and have taken it away arbitrarily. The reason they are building a mosque? Cause they own the fuckin land. It's a shame these mideastern shitkickers own so much of the "land of the free"(ya right). I say shut all places of worship down and lets watch the sheep fall apart without their crutch. Let's build churches to the real god. Money. C.R.E.A.M.
@lordkol666 I say just tax the fuck out of the churches- its unconstitutional to give them tax exempt status and the economy would turn right around if churches were charged a good 90% of their income. And as for the money churches, I think Ayn Rand already tried that. ;)
Best buy a prayer mat Americans, Islam is coming, slowly, insidiously, and DEFINITELY. You turn the other cheek, you'll get fucked twice. There comes a time when you have to actually fight to keep logic, reason and secular morality and freedom on your side because insidious Islamic fascism will steal your freedoms from right underneath your nose and by the time you actually notice,,,,, it'll be gone.
Allah Hu Akbah. Best start looking for a good Islamic school to send your kids too
Mohammed was nothing more than a tyrannical desert pirate who used religion to dupe his followers. The rest is history- but presently, this pirate is coming to a 'ground zero' near you. Islam is an intellectual insult to humanity and the universe, it's banal and based upon terror. Believe or burn in hell forever even AFTER you're dead. The terror of Islam is 'projected' beyond death. It's effective, it keeps the children of Islam in fear. By 'believing' it, they deserve it. Islam is banal.
Stop there, they don't keep us on anything, we choose to buy ther oil and use there heroin, they don't have gun to our heads forcing us to to take what there selling, we willingly spend our money FREELY on thier goods.
You keep saying "they" as in all muslims, they all attacked America, they all are building this centre, not moderate reasonable American muslims, is that what your saying?
u blunt ass american mofo admitedly u are a lil uneducated about who crashed into the twins but who gives a fuck bout rag heads just remember they fast so while u eat ur food they watch nomnom and if u buke em it fucks our oil supplies god damn my canadian army should be shooting and driving em off so we can put ppl that r usefull (not stupid ppl) (rednecks cough) there
I am glad I kept watching...hahaha, I almost fell prey to the same sort of quick judgementalist I often attribute to the "antis"....good lesson. And good video. =)
Oh yeah, One last point: You said about bigotry that it comes form the notion that certain things must be accepted at the expense of other values. Agreed. I think allowing a Masque at g zero is threatening to our survival and certainly an affront to our dignity. As for me personally, one value I am not willing to jettison is the survival and dignity of western civilization itsself. It's a value I'm not willing to sacrifice for the 1st ammendment, or for religious tollerance or anything else.
Last point: You talk about the 1st ammendment and for the most part I like the 1st ammendment, but it's just political convention; it's not sacrosanct. The American constitution and Bill of Rights were written more than 200 years ago. They were written to meet the needs of the nation that this was at that time. This is a different time and we're a different nation with different problems and threats and different needs. Lets not become idolizers of the past. Flexability is always necessary.
(continued yet again) big difference between being tollerant of those whos values we find personally abhorant and bloody well rolling over for a declared blood enemy who wants to destroy us and our civilization and letting them put up a victory flag at the site where they struck and killed so many of us. That's not tollerance; that's rolling over and submitting to a goddamn fucking ass raping. There's a difference.
(continued again) destroy our civilization if they keep working at it. They very well might succeed if we don't succeed in preventing it and there's no gurantee of that. Also, I liked your explanation about the difference between acceptance and tollerance and why we should be tollerant even of that which we find dispicable and how that would lead to the mature development of ones own values independently of some authoritative edict or some shit like that. I agree. However there is a big
(continued) I disagree with almost everything you said, so much that I'm not even going to comment on it all, just some of the more important issues. You ended with something about how we rationalists have reality on our side and you expressed what I can only call a FAITH that our reason will win out in the battle for survival against their fanatacism. I don't have such a faith. The fact that they're backward and we're progressive doesn't lead me to automatically assume that they can't destroy
My understanding is that the 9/11 hijackers were not religiously but politically motivated to do what they did. Their religious hatred for us was secondary, not their primary motive for wanting to destroy us, though they were religious fanatics and that fanaticism would have certainly given them the courage to go through with it, believing as they did that they'd go to paradise with the virgins and all that crazy shit. But nevermind that; it's not important. Now I'll get to what's important.
You make great points. However, I think it's a poor choice of words to say that we must let the mosque represent "turning the other cheek".While I certainly think that there are principles which can defeat any religious insanity on the long run we must stick to,"turning the other cheek" is certainly not one of them.If Muslims claim that their religion should be part of the west,then it must be subject to ruthless criticism as any other. ]It's a package deal that they can either accept or reject.
If they choose to accept it, they should not expect to have their religion exempt from criticism and have everyone enagaged in self censorship lest they offend their sensibilities. If they choose to reject it, then we have every right to reject their religion as inherently oppressive and incompatible with the value of freedom(Which it is), and not tolerate it.
It's been about the same with christianity, and that religion has been greatly modernized. Islam will follow, with contact with the modern world. We simply need to be the better people, guide backwards muslims to the modern world. Some muslims have already adopted modern attitudes, and they will help us while we get their backwards fellows to better themselves.
There are certainly Muslims out there who have "adopted modern attitudes", but that should not in any way, shape or form grant their religion exemption from criticism. In fact, tolerance of criticism should be the litmus test of modernization of a religionist(Muslim or otherwise).
While we certainly should "guide backwards muslims to the modern world", I think we should also reserve the right to respond with violence if those "backward Muslims" try to drag us back to the Dark Ages.
"...exemption from criticism" I said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth. I openly and constantly criticize every religion that causes trouble. But I tolerate those religious members who are decent people.
And I agree wholeheartedly that we should stand ready to fight militant, fundamentalist, or radical muslims (or any religion) who want to do us harm. But we should never start conflict, or we are no better than them.
I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just stated my views on the matter, and most unfortunately, there actually ARE people out there who think practicing self censorship to avoid offending hypersensitive religious douchebags is a wonderful idea.
All in all, it sounds like we are pretty much in agreement here. Cool! :-)
The way you worded it made it sound like you were accusing me of that.
Yup, that 'politically correct' bullshit. Same thing is allowing fundamentalist and radical muslims to get a foothold in some countries, especially in Europe, it seems.
Amazing how many people just can't see reason on this subject. They act like muslims are some kind of demon army that wants to kill us all. Dehumanizing muslims the way they are is gonna cause some serious problems.
@ReignbowSmite Someone didn't read my whole comment. "I understand that you don't object to the community center being built..." What bothered me was the rant at the start and the whole lets turn the other cheek as if there is something to be outraged by? Its ridiculous, there are plenty of churches and mosques around ground zero but all of sudden when this one is being built people get outraged. It is fake controversy stoked up by News Corp.
Then why not fight FOR having the "2nd Amendment right to own a gun in NYC", instead of advocating the restriction of other freedoms, genius?
Nevermind that "to strap a bomb to a ten year old child" has absolutely nothing to do with the 1st Amendment and freedom of expression. The 1st Amendment does not cover the right to engage in physical violence.
If I were to tell the press that millions of Americans would be blown up by an Iranian nutjob or that their Congress has stolen their entire savings with their bailouts, nobody panics because it's all part of the plan... But, if I tell the press a few homosexuals in California are upset over their little wee wees... why, everyone just loses their minds!
And the practice of religion is still a negative freedom, except when it infringes on other people's negative freedoms(Which still occurs far too more often than it should)
It's not about freedom of religion it's about war. Any official german war commando centrals would never be established on American soil during WWII. It would be ridiculous to even imagine it because we were at war against Germany. Now we are at war against the soldiers the religion islam, against the mosques, against their war declarations and orders (the koran and hadiths). We are at war NOT with random people but at war with an ideology. Mosques are their war rooms. Close them down.
Well, there were many Nazis and Commies along with their misguided sympathizers,active in America before and during WWII and during the Cold War, respectively, and they had every right to do so under the First Amendment,as the die-hard adherents of these dead totalitarianisms in America still have.
Same goes for Muslims. Instead of restricting their freedoms to advocate their oppressive religion,we should exercise to the fullest OUR freedom to criticize their religion as we see fit.
Again just like Condell it's sad to see you and other atheists buy into the manufactured controversy created by foxnews and the other rags owned by Murdoch. I thought you where not this stupid to fall for this right wing crap.
People should only take offense at things that their own business.
Y'know what offends me?
People with a permanent "sour milk face" whingeing about how offended they are; and demanding that EVERYONE ELSE change to prevent offending the whiner.
A whiners list of "things that offend them" is longer than he Unabridged Oxford Dictionary.
Like Saint Carlin said "Your 'needs' aren't being met? DROP SOME OF YOUR NEEDS!"
I'm just home nursing injuries until I can go back to work... You see, I make all those nifty toys for your missiles and medical robots, I play guitar in a band, I actually do something useful that you pay me for...
You, on the other hand can only bitch and make a fashion display of being a Satanist of some sort... And I thought my jokes were bad...
@SirWinstonChurchill I've no fucking idea what you are talking about, along with being an Internet tough guy, you're also a troll and totality batshit crazy. Don't bother to reply I'm not reading them any more.
@SlightyDisturbedNBK time you actually read the Koran and understood the reality rather than the myth. Islam wants the world. Its all in the Koran. Better read it before it becomes compulsory. Read it make your own mind up.
Yes they have the right to build this mosque / community center.
Fuck... there just seems something so fundamentally fucked up with building an Islamic mosque in place of a building that was destroyed in an Islamic attack. And... yes, I know these Muslims are moderates compared to the nutcases that did 9/11.
The WTCs were not the only building destroyed in NYC on 9/11, one of the other buildings destroyed on 9/11 includes the building that this m/cc will replace. This building that this Islamic building will replace was a clothing store. On 9/11 the landing gear of one of the planes smashed into its roof making it unusable.
That this m/cc will replace a building destroyed on 9/11 is a factual statement. Whether or not this should happen is the point of argument.
A coat factory, I think it was. I know it was damaged on that day. I thought you meant actual ground zero.
Do you know that the muslims who attacked on 9-11 were of a different sect than the muslims who are building a community center there? You may as well blame American christians for the crimes of the Catholic church. And shall we bar all christians from building anywhere near the many places that christians have committed atrocities?
The clothing store was a Burlington Coat Factory. Are you familiar with this chain store? It is like the Gap, for coats.
Your questions:
1. Yes, I know. I will agree with is a good point.
2. What Christian atrocities are talking about?
I am a New Yorker. Guess what the two NYCs in my name stand for? For me this is personal... and yes maybe I am too emotional on this issue. Still, building an Islamic building in place of a building destroyed in an Islamic attack is wrong.
Let's see... countless deadly gay-bashings, abortion clinic bombings, Salem Witch Trials, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, the worsening of the African AIDS epidemic through attacking condom use, motivating witch hunts in Africa, and more... The list of things that can be considered 'atrocities of christianity' is a long one.
Imagine holding all those things against all christians of all sects. Would that be right?
I know how it can be. I despise their religion, for many reasons. But these muslims are not the same muslims who killed thousands of Americans. These appear to be decent people, who deserve the same human treatment as any other American. As long as they obey the law, and treat others decently, we need to respect them, or we are no better than those foreign muslims who attack non-muslims in their own nations.
The WTCs were not the only building destroyed in NYC on 9/11, one of the other buildings destroyed on 9/11 includes the building that this m/cc will replace. This building that this Islamic building will replace was a clothing store. On 9/11 the landing gear of one of the planes smashed into its roof making it unusable.
That this m/cc will replace a building destroyed on 9/11 is a factual statement. Whether or not this should happen is the point of argument.
Alright. I know the coat place was collateral damage.
What is being debated is whether these American muslims should be allowed to build a community center for themselves, on their own property, with their own money. Under the law, they have this right. But people are trying to deny them the right to use their property as they wish, based on their religion. Do you disagree with these points? Keep in mind, they are not the same group, or even the same sect, as the 9-11 hijackers
@Anon11674 It will make a big difference where the money comes from to fund the Mosque/community center. No American should be denied their American rights, but it's important to point out the stupidity of choosing this location. No bridges will be built, it just adds fuel to the fire.
What is particularly stupid about the location? The only problem is those trying to be offended, and the demagogues demonizing these muslims. These assholes would be attacking the muslims building this place no matter where they were building it.
Did you know there's protests over a community center in Tennessee, as well? I'm not aware of a muslim atrocity there. These anti-muslim bigots are attacking any muslim project, simply because it is by muslims!
Do you believe no member of any religion should build anywhere near the site of an atrocity committed by others of their religion, regardless of sect? Or are muslims special here? And how far away is tasteful?
Attacking the community center is only furthering bigotry and division. Graciously welcoming it would be a step towards reconciliation and peace. Meanwhile, groups like the Taliban are using these bigoted protests as an effective recruiting tool. watch?v=eT6jpzGTLl0
What you call "turning the toher cheek" is simply renouncing the values of freedom.
Many people say "Wel no churches are allowed to be built in Saudi Arabia and other muslim countries so fluck them", well, that's precisely what they want: turning the world into a place which hold their own values, making the other countries renounce their paradigm and adopt theirs.
Precisely, Saudi arabia sucks, so there's no way the western world imitate them.
There's a great Dawkins video about being offended, it's called "I'm offended!" and it's in the first featured of my favorites. If you havrn't, I urge you to watch it Jordan, it's short:
@Blackthorn2323 It would be interesting if in the planned Muslim community center they will have something for gay Muslim kids, or other groups who don't have it easy.
Do you realize that the group of muslims building a community center nearly a mile away from ground zero is from a different sect of islam than those who carried out 9-11? This is like blaming all christians for the Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, Crusades, the Holocaust, countless gay bashings, and so on. Can you see how your stance is flawed?
"...shove his brown dick up your ass..." Hmm... Apparently racist, homophobic, and a childish insult level. Bravo.
Building a mosque (or any islam-related building) on ground zero, no matter what sect of islam it is for, is not a smart move at all and testifies great lack of sensitivity, at least.
It's not a matter of intollerance from our side, but rather a matter of lack of respect, insensitivity and common sense from theirs.
So how far from ground zero must a muslim building be to be 'sensitive', then? Are they allowed to build anywhere in America? Are all sects of islam tainted by the actions of a few radical sects? Should gay-bashings and witch trials be attributed to all christians? Playing by your rules, there are many areas in America, and many more in Europe, where no christian building of any sect should be allowed. Same goes for pretty much every major religion.
Can you clarify your point, if it is anything other than "All muslims should be held responsible for the actions of a few radicals."?
Shall we treat all muslims as if they all believe the exact same thing, are all radicals and fundamentalists who want to kill us all and shit on western culture? Attacking these muslims makes Americans no better than foreign fundamentalist muslims who won't let non-muslims live among them and build their own places of worship.
No, you just don't present much of a point beyond "Don't let muslims build near ground zero, because it's offensive" What point have I missed? If you want to have an intelligent discussion, please be willing to clarify points that have become lost or muddled.
I didn't mean it as a quote. And are you not saying we should treat the community center muslims as if they're from the same group as the 9-11 muslims? Why else would you want to bar them from building a community center?
You keep putting words in other people's mouth, making assumptions on what I think just just to support your arguments, making analogies that don't hold. Also, do yourself a favor and sign up to a course on reading comprehension.
Then how about you actually clarify your damn point, beyond any doubt, instead of leaving me to try and guess it?
I can't help it if you refuse to accept an analogy you don't like
You've stated it's insensitive and disrespectful, but that's no justification to prevent them building. And common sense has no bearing on whether people are allowed to do anything within the law. And do you realize that they are not building their community center 'on' ground zero, but nearly a mile away?
If anyone is offended by these muslims wanting to build a community center, then they'd be just as unreasonable as those who want to hold American christians responsible for the crimes of the Catholic church.
Why should these people be discriminated against, denied their rights as Americans, just because some people can't get the difference between one group of muslims and another?
It's a community center with two levels for muslim prayer and therefore is not a mosque. It's being built by moderates who did not commit 9/11 and don't believe in the interpretations that inspired 9/11. It's almost two blocks away from the site and you can barely see the 'mosque' which isn't actually a mosque. If victims are offended, I can empathize but they would be basing on a false interpretation. Moderates have nothing to apologize for.
I am offended that Jennifer Aniston called herself Retard!!!!! *sarcasm*
Great vid man :D
I don't really like the term "post-9/11 world" cause... I don't see it that way. But that is propably cause I don't live in USA, where I can see it's effects so damn clearly.
If I would describe this "period" would be, -More predjuice against Muslims-. Leading to radical thoughts and "reasoning".
When Al Qaeda destroyed the twin towers, they tried to change America. The "mosque" being built in the vicinity of ground zero will be a symbol of their failure.
We mustn't let fear control us like they want it to.
I'm sorry but this whole "I disagree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.....blah blah blah" bullshit, is insincere and is killing Western societies. The line has to be drawn when people who have had family murdered by muslims in the name of islam, have to plead with muslims not to rub their noses in it. Be happy clappy on other issues but not this ~3000 murder-victims one.
The group that carried out 9-11 is not the same group that is building a muslim community center nearly a mile away from ground zero.
By your logic, all christian sects should be barred from building a church in much of Europe, and many areas in America and around the world. That would be 'rubbing it in the nose of all the victims of christianity'
@Akatam0t0ma No... making a ridiculous emotional argument is bat shit insane. We have a Constitution here in the US that is supposed to protect religious freedom. As long as no harm is being done and they have purchased the property, it's well within their rights to build the community center. The people rallying against this community center are making themselves look far worse than the people they claim to be against and going against the very freedoms they are trying to protect for themselves
I'm not talking about the community center per-se, I'm talking about the dangers of practicing self-censorship out of fear of offending a bunch of hypersensitive religionist drones, or the fear of being called racists, or even worse, out of outright genuine undeserved sympathies for an oppressive religion.
The good thing about this controversy, whatever its outcome may be, is that more people are not talking about the religion, and say many things that need to be said.
Imagine the outrage if we moved to prevent any christian-themed place being built near a site where christians committed an atrocity, regardless of their sect. I think the fundies would literally go to war over it.
You do know the facts behind the whole story, right? The 'mosque' is almost a mile away, with no line-of-sight, it's a community center with a small mosque attached, and the muslims building it are from a different sect than the 9-11 fuckers, supposedly a much more peaceful sect. I have no idea what you know about it, so I'm making sure. To any reasonable person, this muslim community center is no insult.
@Anon11674 agreed, If you listen to the people behind the project, it is very clearly not designed as an insult. The opposite on fact, it's supposed top foster relations, build bridges, and be a symbol of unity. If it were to insult anyone, it's the extremists in Al Qaeda who are the losers here.
This issue only became an issue because of right wing bloggers painted it as a victory for the 9/11 perpetrators. There's already a Mosque nearby. This is about stoking up hate for elections.
Yup. Those right-wing fuckers have been using hate as one of their main campaign tools for decades now. They were working it at least as early as the segregation era.
(And a correction on something I said in first comment: From what I'm hearing, a mosque is a building dedicated to worship, so the muslim community center has a 'prayer space', not a mosque.)
I'm not at all. Especially since this sect of Muslims are sufi. The sufi are the groups that people like bin laden despise the most. Continuing on as if nothing had happened is the biggest smack in the face that you could deliver to the people who blew up the towers.
I'm 100% for Muslims having the right to build Mosques, so they don't have to be more marginalized than they already are (thanks to bin laden's cowardly actions,) have to meet in people's living rooms,etc. but think they can find another location in NYC to do that. We don't have to tolerate everything in the western world, because we have the right of protest.
Well Jordan, I can't say that the Park 51 project (wich is a cultural center - not a mosque BTW) But I'm glad to see you stand up for an open society, that tolerates even that wich it does not agree with.
For the American mosque proponents (Yes all 3), look at a video of people jumping off the twin towers here on youtube, and then look at where they want to build this fucking thing. Yeah, still support it?
Dirt shitting rag headed camel fuckers? So I'm supposed to take someone seriously who starts out with that kind of language?
prschuster 3 months ago
@prschuster If you'd stayed with the video, you might have seen the point I was making in using that language.
jordanowen42 3 months ago
@jordanowen42 I got the point you made about making the erroneous connection between the Islamic center 6 blocks from ground zero and the plane that hi-jackers crashed into the twin towers. All your talk about tolerance is meaningless after having made that statement about camel fuckers.
prschuster 3 months ago
@prschuster The point of the video was about how its okay to be offended. I was using satire.
jordanowen42 3 months ago
@jordanowen42 OK, you got me with POE's law. Sorry, I didn't pick up on the satire. Now I get it.
prschuster 3 months ago
@ZenaSTAR18 Actually no- to be a male performer in porn you have to be able to get your dick up on cue and shoot your load on cue. Few men can do it well enough to be in porn and that's why you keep seeing the same male performers- Evan Stone, Rocco Siffredi, Keni Styles, etc, in everything: they are the few and the proud. I take the standard amount of time to get it up and shoot my load- they wouldn't want me.
jordanowen42 4 months ago
@ZenaSTAR18 Yes- that was certainly contemptuous but it wasn't racist- their race was never called into question. Furthermore, you've clearly missed the reason I took that approach to the argument in the first place: that its okay to be offended.
Consent is the absolute final complete and unquestionable maxim with regards to sexual conduct. If all parties have consented, no third party may interfere with their interactions. Consent = Right. Period.
jordanowen42 4 months ago
@ZenaSTAR18 Exactly what did I say that was racist? As for porn, as long as it involves consenting adults, what is and is not "okay" is a matter of personal taste as is what is and is not vulgar. I'm not a Max Hardcore fan myself, but he should not have gone to jail for what he did.
jordanowen42 4 months ago
Don't worry, it's not actually a mosque, but a muslim recreational youth centre with prayer service.
Also, technically there shouldn't be and churches in america after christians already have slaves, and murdered natives
mizakzee 8 months ago
Nothing to do with faith or religion. It's to do with the american government needing an excuse for war through using a false flag operation such as that of northwoods back in the sixties. its public information
yozeroz 1 year ago
i dont think its bad. i
jon2xu 1 year ago
I almost unsubbed and put a rude comment.
You probably shouldn't make another intro like that.
D3m0nhunter719 1 year ago
the people who crashed the planes into the twin towers ( assuming all the consparies theories are wrong) calling those terrorist muslim is offensive to all muslims.I doubt it would be this much controverse if it was a christian chruch.I think some people who are opposed to the building of the mosque is more scared then anything
king78802 1 year ago
Yeah but what about the innocent Muslim who were killed on 9-11? Why should they lose their natural rights as citizens due to the actions of others who claim the are the same religion? I mean clearly they are not the same religion as in one you kill and die for Allah and dont give a f**k but in the other you follow the laws of the land. Plus people really know that 9-11 happened due to fighting over land and for political reasons not due to religion.
BusinessEdgeRadio 1 year ago 2
Do you know how Hitler came into power? By abusing democratic rights
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
You mean giving in like Churchill gave in when he left the Czech Republic to Hitler cos he didn't want to be a war monger like the Nazis?!
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
But apart from the 9/11 implications I'd like to turn the table round& claim that u yourself have no valid reasons WHY muslims should have the right to build a mosque just there. If u believe that they have such a right due 2 religious freedom, then Christians,Jews,Hindus,Buddhis ts or Sikhs have the same right 2 build their holy places of worship there. As obviously this wld b impossible no 1 has this right as a right only given to muslims would mean an unjustified privilege.
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
@DreamFreedom1 Your use of numbers in place of words makes you hard 2 follow. In any case, yes, all those people have the same right to build their buildings wherever they want. The Muslims are building there because they own the land and in this country we respect property rights. I don't see how this is similar to allowing Adolf Hitler to come to power and if you start taking peoples rights away on the basis that they might become Hitler, then you're being something of a Hitler yourself.
jordanowen42 1 year ago 2
@DreamFreedom1 I'd like to see the Sikhs put up the money to be allowed to build a temple. And the idealism behind the heart of this country implies that every one of those religions DOES have the same right. What you should be asking yourself is who is in bed with the right people to allow a mosque there instead of a church, monastery, or synagogue.
waxglasses 1 year ago
@DreamFreedom1:
"Christians,Jews,Hindus,Buddhis ts or Sikhs have the same right 2 build their holy places of worship there."
I do not recall anyone arguing otherwise.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma You should read the WHOLE text. Sorry if you're not able to grasp what I am trying to say
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
@DreamFreedom1:
Yeah, I read the whole text, and I don't really understand what you are saying.
To make my position clear, while I, like the maker of this video, while I find the construction of that mosque/community center offensive, I am yet to see any valid argument whatsoever to exercise government power to stop it from being built there.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
lol
twin3030 1 year ago
I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree.
The Muslims have a right to build their Mosque at wherever they please.
Christian fundamentalist have the right to preach "God hates fags" and "abortion should be made illegal" as long as no physical threats of violence are carried out. They have the right to build as long as they are not threatening anyone.
If you make building mosque Illegal in the USA, then you prove yourself no different from the Muslim extremist in 3rd world contries.
RyunSharp 1 year ago
Thats bullshit Jewish propaganda.The mosque should not be built because it makes it seem like it was the muslims who brought down those buildings,when in reality it was an inside job.Muslims aren't trying to takeover America,its that criminal government lead by Isreal and the NWO who has hijacked america.
fenderbass 1 year ago
“RELIGION IS THE BIGGEST VACUUM CLEANER
SOLD TO THE PEOPLE
BY THEY PEOPLE
TO RIP OFF PEOPLE”.
Zulfiqar tareen, the mortal enemy of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and all pagan Gods.
zulfitareen 1 year ago
bless your heart, brother.
my message is to the person in the video.
zulfitareen 1 year ago
I don't think 9/11 was fundamentalists vs. free thinkers, it was fundamentalists vs. other types of fundamentalists - with many free thinkers dying in the bargain. No religion is of peace. However, I think we have to allow the mosque to go up unless it goes against some kind of pre-existing zoneing rules. If people are going to be stupid (i.e. w/ religion) I'd rather they do so where we can see them.
jloiterer 1 year ago
I was always taught not 2 lower urself 2 others levels as u say but wher does taste come into it. and the fact that Islam has a history of triumphantalism manifested in building mosques over victory sites th taste factor really comes into it.. ths people really believe in a form of apartheid + world domination. dar al harb + dar al islam, house of war and house of submission. could I stand by and watch S/A apartheid as you would say and tolerate but not accept S/A some thing u never accept
lyntonio 1 year ago
American are very feely about that. Racism. Muslims colored.. you against their plans.
Brulluhman 1 year ago
That mosque has been build for one reason. Provocation. Why? Because it got financed not by American but by Saudi's. Holland granted 1 million euro to that organisation ASMA to prefent woman getting their clits get cut off. First question. Why don't they spend 100 million $ on that. Instead they "spend" 1 million euro of our money on mascara and next they build that prestige shit on a place that pisses you American off. Their provocating, after that they'll scream racism.
Brulluhman 1 year ago
it's not really offensive. To consider folks gathering to worship a "god" is rather pathetic and nothing else. The first amendment? They will and have taken it away arbitrarily. The reason they are building a mosque? Cause they own the fuckin land. It's a shame these mideastern shitkickers own so much of the "land of the free"(ya right). I say shut all places of worship down and lets watch the sheep fall apart without their crutch. Let's build churches to the real god. Money. C.R.E.A.M.
lordkol666 1 year ago
@lordkol666 I say just tax the fuck out of the churches- its unconstitutional to give them tax exempt status and the economy would turn right around if churches were charged a good 90% of their income. And as for the money churches, I think Ayn Rand already tried that. ;)
jordanowen42 1 year ago
@jordanowen42
I agree, tax all religious buildings. That would bring in billions of dollars.
gtssage 1 year ago
Best buy a prayer mat Americans, Islam is coming, slowly, insidiously, and DEFINITELY. You turn the other cheek, you'll get fucked twice. There comes a time when you have to actually fight to keep logic, reason and secular morality and freedom on your side because insidious Islamic fascism will steal your freedoms from right underneath your nose and by the time you actually notice,,,,, it'll be gone.
Allah Hu Akbah. Best start looking for a good Islamic school to send your kids too
CorporalNym 1 year ago
Mohammed was nothing more than a tyrannical desert pirate who used religion to dupe his followers. The rest is history- but presently, this pirate is coming to a 'ground zero' near you. Islam is an intellectual insult to humanity and the universe, it's banal and based upon terror. Believe or burn in hell forever even AFTER you're dead. The terror of Islam is 'projected' beyond death. It's effective, it keeps the children of Islam in fear. By 'believing' it, they deserve it. Islam is banal.
CorporalNym 1 year ago
Interesting video.
Chuloloc 1 year ago
good vid...thanks~
practicalmagic9 1 year ago
great great video. i still dont think its somethin to be offended by. but i wont get into that here.
great video.,
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
very interesting!
LeifurEriksson 1 year ago
Nice video.
bunohash 1 year ago
On this issue, I think the Atheists are separated by political allegiances.
paradoarify 1 year ago
Stop there, they don't keep us on anything, we choose to buy ther oil and use there heroin, they don't have gun to our heads forcing us to to take what there selling, we willingly spend our money FREELY on thier goods.
You keep saying "they" as in all muslims, they all attacked America, they all are building this centre, not moderate reasonable American muslims, is that what your saying?
SuperTwit 1 year ago
God damn you Jordan Owen.
You just won't fucking die.
SuicideKatana 1 year ago
u blunt ass american mofo admitedly u are a lil uneducated about who crashed into the twins but who gives a fuck bout rag heads just remember they fast so while u eat ur food they watch nomnom and if u buke em it fucks our oil supplies god damn my canadian army should be shooting and driving em off so we can put ppl that r usefull (not stupid ppl) (rednecks cough) there
The1Ray1W1Johnson 1 year ago
"Blithering heathens"! I am offfennnded! :-)
NuyBard 1 year ago
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himethisisme 1 year ago
This is a joke video... right?
messiahjonz 1 year ago
@messiahjonz No- why?
jordanowen42 1 year ago
I am glad I kept watching...hahaha, I almost fell prey to the same sort of quick judgementalist I often attribute to the "antis"....good lesson. And good video. =)
BobChaos23 1 year ago
Oh yeah, One last point: You said about bigotry that it comes form the notion that certain things must be accepted at the expense of other values. Agreed. I think allowing a Masque at g zero is threatening to our survival and certainly an affront to our dignity. As for me personally, one value I am not willing to jettison is the survival and dignity of western civilization itsself. It's a value I'm not willing to sacrifice for the 1st ammendment, or for religious tollerance or anything else.
scruethedemiurge 1 year ago
Last point: You talk about the 1st ammendment and for the most part I like the 1st ammendment, but it's just political convention; it's not sacrosanct. The American constitution and Bill of Rights were written more than 200 years ago. They were written to meet the needs of the nation that this was at that time. This is a different time and we're a different nation with different problems and threats and different needs. Lets not become idolizers of the past. Flexability is always necessary.
scruethedemiurge 1 year ago
(continued yet again) big difference between being tollerant of those whos values we find personally abhorant and bloody well rolling over for a declared blood enemy who wants to destroy us and our civilization and letting them put up a victory flag at the site where they struck and killed so many of us. That's not tollerance; that's rolling over and submitting to a goddamn fucking ass raping. There's a difference.
scruethedemiurge 1 year ago
(continued again) destroy our civilization if they keep working at it. They very well might succeed if we don't succeed in preventing it and there's no gurantee of that. Also, I liked your explanation about the difference between acceptance and tollerance and why we should be tollerant even of that which we find dispicable and how that would lead to the mature development of ones own values independently of some authoritative edict or some shit like that. I agree. However there is a big
scruethedemiurge 1 year ago
(continued) I disagree with almost everything you said, so much that I'm not even going to comment on it all, just some of the more important issues. You ended with something about how we rationalists have reality on our side and you expressed what I can only call a FAITH that our reason will win out in the battle for survival against their fanatacism. I don't have such a faith. The fact that they're backward and we're progressive doesn't lead me to automatically assume that they can't destroy
scruethedemiurge 1 year ago
My understanding is that the 9/11 hijackers were not religiously but politically motivated to do what they did. Their religious hatred for us was secondary, not their primary motive for wanting to destroy us, though they were religious fanatics and that fanaticism would have certainly given them the courage to go through with it, believing as they did that they'd go to paradise with the virgins and all that crazy shit. But nevermind that; it's not important. Now I'll get to what's important.
scruethedemiurge 1 year ago
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videogamer810 1 year ago
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videogamer810 1 year ago
This has given me quite a bit to think about, and was very well communicated. Thanks.
12tod 1 year ago
Basically if that mosque isn't allowed at (two blocks away from) Ground Zero, Osama Bin Laden will be laughing in his cave.
Afriboy2007 1 year ago
Fuck you and die... All you can do is bitch fat boy... you're no good to me on a battlefield...
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
You make great points. However, I think it's a poor choice of words to say that we must let the mosque represent "turning the other cheek".While I certainly think that there are principles which can defeat any religious insanity on the long run we must stick to,"turning the other cheek" is certainly not one of them.If Muslims claim that their religion should be part of the west,then it must be subject to ruthless criticism as any other. ]It's a package deal that they can either accept or reject.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
If they choose to accept it, they should not expect to have their religion exempt from criticism and have everyone enagaged in self censorship lest they offend their sensibilities. If they choose to reject it, then we have every right to reject their religion as inherently oppressive and incompatible with the value of freedom(Which it is), and not tolerate it.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma
It's been about the same with christianity, and that religion has been greatly modernized. Islam will follow, with contact with the modern world. We simply need to be the better people, guide backwards muslims to the modern world. Some muslims have already adopted modern attitudes, and they will help us while we get their backwards fellows to better themselves.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674:
There are certainly Muslims out there who have "adopted modern attitudes", but that should not in any way, shape or form grant their religion exemption from criticism. In fact, tolerance of criticism should be the litmus test of modernization of a religionist(Muslim or otherwise).
While we certainly should "guide backwards muslims to the modern world", I think we should also reserve the right to respond with violence if those "backward Muslims" try to drag us back to the Dark Ages.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma
"...exemption from criticism" I said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth. I openly and constantly criticize every religion that causes trouble. But I tolerate those religious members who are decent people.
And I agree wholeheartedly that we should stand ready to fight militant, fundamentalist, or radical muslims (or any religion) who want to do us harm. But we should never start conflict, or we are no better than them.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674:
I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just stated my views on the matter, and most unfortunately, there actually ARE people out there who think practicing self censorship to avoid offending hypersensitive religious douchebags is a wonderful idea.
All in all, it sounds like we are pretty much in agreement here. Cool! :-)
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma
The way you worded it made it sound like you were accusing me of that.
Yup, that 'politically correct' bullshit. Same thing is allowing fundamentalist and radical muslims to get a foothold in some countries, especially in Europe, it seems.
Amazing how many people just can't see reason on this subject. They act like muslims are some kind of demon army that wants to kill us all. Dehumanizing muslims the way they are is gonna cause some serious problems.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@ReignbowSmite Someone didn't read my whole comment. "I understand that you don't object to the community center being built..." What bothered me was the rant at the start and the whole lets turn the other cheek as if there is something to be outraged by? Its ridiculous, there are plenty of churches and mosques around ground zero but all of sudden when this one is being built people get outraged. It is fake controversy stoked up by News Corp.
ChiefRepublic 1 year ago
If I don't have a 2nd Amendment right to own a gun in NYC, then Islam has no 1st Amendment right to strap a bomb to a ten year old child...
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SirWinstonChurchill:
Then why not fight FOR having the "2nd Amendment right to own a gun in NYC", instead of advocating the restriction of other freedoms, genius?
Nevermind that "to strap a bomb to a ten year old child" has absolutely nothing to do with the 1st Amendment and freedom of expression. The 1st Amendment does not cover the right to engage in physical violence.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma
Just another act of terrorism from your religion of peace... enjoy your dhimmitude...
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
@SirWinstonChurchill:
How's weather over there in bizarro world?
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma
If I were to tell the press that millions of Americans would be blown up by an Iranian nutjob or that their Congress has stolen their entire savings with their bailouts, nobody panics because it's all part of the plan... But, if I tell the press a few homosexuals in California are upset over their little wee wees... why, everyone just loses their minds!
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
@SirWinstonChurchill:
The homosexuals have every right to be upset if they have their negative liberties denied, like everyone else.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma
Evolution is only possible with heterosexual relationships...
Religious faggots will never accept that...
Marriage is a religious fetish...
Monogamy is a religious fetish...
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
@SirWinstonChurchill:
And the practice of religion is still a negative freedom, except when it infringes on other people's negative freedoms(Which still occurs far too more often than it should)
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
It's not about freedom of religion it's about war. Any official german war commando centrals would never be established on American soil during WWII. It would be ridiculous to even imagine it because we were at war against Germany. Now we are at war against the soldiers the religion islam, against the mosques, against their war declarations and orders (the koran and hadiths). We are at war NOT with random people but at war with an ideology. Mosques are their war rooms. Close them down.
Clausfarre 1 year ago
@Clausfarre:
Well, there were many Nazis and Commies along with their misguided sympathizers,active in America before and during WWII and during the Cold War, respectively, and they had every right to do so under the First Amendment,as the die-hard adherents of these dead totalitarianisms in America still have.
Same goes for Muslims. Instead of restricting their freedoms to advocate their oppressive religion,we should exercise to the fullest OUR freedom to criticize their religion as we see fit.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
Again just like Condell it's sad to see you and other atheists buy into the manufactured controversy created by foxnews and the other rags owned by Murdoch. I thought you where not this stupid to fall for this right wing crap.
SlightyDisturbedNBK 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK Ummm.... no... that's kind of the opposite of the point I was making...
jordanowen42 1 year ago 3
@jordanowen42
1:54
Actually. I disagree.
People should only take offense at things that their own business.
Y'know what offends me?
People with a permanent "sour milk face" whingeing about how offended they are; and demanding that EVERYONE ELSE change to prevent offending the whiner.
A whiners list of "things that offend them" is longer than he Unabridged Oxford Dictionary.
Like Saint Carlin said "Your 'needs' aren't being met? DROP SOME OF YOUR NEEDS!"
LordCustos3 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK
You ate the jizzlamic sperm cheese.
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
@SirWinstonChurchill And I can see you ate up all the far right lies about Park 51.
SlightyDisturbedNBK 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK
I don't follow the "spread the other cheek" philosophy from the hackneyed tenets of the Christian religion.
You do... I want to bury you in the same hole as your Islamic ass monkeys, that way you can be poopy pals for eternity... Go suck a shotgun...
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
@SirWinstonChurchill Typical Internet tough guy response, you don't know a thing about what I believe. So don't give me that crap sonny.
SlightyDisturbedNBK 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK
I'm just home nursing injuries until I can go back to work... You see, I make all those nifty toys for your missiles and medical robots, I play guitar in a band, I actually do something useful that you pay me for...
You, on the other hand can only bitch and make a fashion display of being a Satanist of some sort... And I thought my jokes were bad...
How about a magick trick???
SirWinstonChurchill 1 year ago
@SirWinstonChurchill I've no fucking idea what you are talking about, along with being an Internet tough guy, you're also a troll and totality batshit crazy. Don't bother to reply I'm not reading them any more.
SlightyDisturbedNBK 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK Islam is a very "right wing" religion.
Chickenwing1313 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK Just wondering, did you watch the video from start to finish?
DeeDemonwitch 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK The controversy was created Imam Rauf. He manipulated the media.
paradoarify 1 year ago
@SlightyDisturbedNBK time you actually read the Koran and understood the reality rather than the myth. Islam wants the world. Its all in the Koran. Better read it before it becomes compulsory. Read it make your own mind up.
CorporalNym 1 year ago
Yes they have the right to build this mosque / community center.
Fuck... there just seems something so fundamentally fucked up with building an Islamic mosque in place of a building that was destroyed in an Islamic attack. And... yes, I know these Muslims are moderates compared to the nutcases that did 9/11.
NYCAustinNYC 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
But it's not being built 'on ground zero'. It's nearly a mile away, and has no line of sight, from what I hear.
Right-wingers are making up this bullshit to stir up hate for the next election.
Anon11674 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Anon11674
The WTCs were not the only building destroyed in NYC on 9/11, one of the other buildings destroyed on 9/11 includes the building that this m/cc will replace. This building that this Islamic building will replace was a clothing store. On 9/11 the landing gear of one of the planes smashed into its roof making it unusable.
That this m/cc will replace a building destroyed on 9/11 is a factual statement. Whether or not this should happen is the point of argument.
NYCAustinNYC 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
A coat factory, I think it was. I know it was damaged on that day. I thought you meant actual ground zero.
Do you know that the muslims who attacked on 9-11 were of a different sect than the muslims who are building a community center there? You may as well blame American christians for the crimes of the Catholic church. And shall we bar all christians from building anywhere near the many places that christians have committed atrocities?
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674
The clothing store was a Burlington Coat Factory. Are you familiar with this chain store? It is like the Gap, for coats.
Your questions:
1. Yes, I know. I will agree with is a good point.
2. What Christian atrocities are talking about?
I am a New Yorker. Guess what the two NYCs in my name stand for? For me this is personal... and yes maybe I am too emotional on this issue. Still, building an Islamic building in place of a building destroyed in an Islamic attack is wrong.
NYCAustinNYC 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
Let's see... countless deadly gay-bashings, abortion clinic bombings, Salem Witch Trials, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, the worsening of the African AIDS epidemic through attacking condom use, motivating witch hunts in Africa, and more... The list of things that can be considered 'atrocities of christianity' is a long one.
Imagine holding all those things against all christians of all sects. Would that be right?
Anon11674 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
I know how it can be. I despise their religion, for many reasons. But these muslims are not the same muslims who killed thousands of Americans. These appear to be decent people, who deserve the same human treatment as any other American. As long as they obey the law, and treat others decently, we need to respect them, or we are no better than those foreign muslims who attack non-muslims in their own nations.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
Guess what the two NYCs in my name stand for?
Nebraska Youth Center?
ninjabob42 1 year ago
@ninjabob42
Fair enough, that was not my best example of prose.
2 NYCs = the the Twin Towers of NYC.
NYCAustinNYC 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
I know, i was being somewhat glib.
ninjabob42 1 year ago
@Anon11674
The WTCs were not the only building destroyed in NYC on 9/11, one of the other buildings destroyed on 9/11 includes the building that this m/cc will replace. This building that this Islamic building will replace was a clothing store. On 9/11 the landing gear of one of the planes smashed into its roof making it unusable.
That this m/cc will replace a building destroyed on 9/11 is a factual statement. Whether or not this should happen is the point of argument.
NYCAustinNYC 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
Alright. I know the coat place was collateral damage.
What is being debated is whether these American muslims should be allowed to build a community center for themselves, on their own property, with their own money. Under the law, they have this right. But people are trying to deny them the right to use their property as they wish, based on their religion. Do you disagree with these points? Keep in mind, they are not the same group, or even the same sect, as the 9-11 hijackers
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674
This is a very bitter thing for me to say... yes, they should be allowed to build it.
This Muslim group is fucked for choosing this building.
I will add this choice on my list of reasons of why I hate Islam.
NYCAustinNYC 1 year ago
@NYCAustinNYC
I'm sorry you hold those opinions, but I'm glad to see you've chosen the right conclusion. No American should be denied their American rights.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674 It will make a big difference where the money comes from to fund the Mosque/community center. No American should be denied their American rights, but it's important to point out the stupidity of choosing this location. No bridges will be built, it just adds fuel to the fire.
JeffDresden 1 year ago
@JeffDresden
What is particularly stupid about the location? The only problem is those trying to be offended, and the demagogues demonizing these muslims. These assholes would be attacking the muslims building this place no matter where they were building it.
Did you know there's protests over a community center in Tennessee, as well? I'm not aware of a muslim atrocity there. These anti-muslim bigots are attacking any muslim project, simply because it is by muslims!
Anon11674 1 year ago
@JeffDresden
Do you believe no member of any religion should build anywhere near the site of an atrocity committed by others of their religion, regardless of sect? Or are muslims special here? And how far away is tasteful?
Attacking the community center is only furthering bigotry and division. Graciously welcoming it would be a step towards reconciliation and peace. Meanwhile, groups like the Taliban are using these bigoted protests as an effective recruiting tool. watch?v=eT6jpzGTLl0
Anon11674 1 year ago
What you call "turning the toher cheek" is simply renouncing the values of freedom.
Many people say "Wel no churches are allowed to be built in Saudi Arabia and other muslim countries so fluck them", well, that's precisely what they want: turning the world into a place which hold their own values, making the other countries renounce their paradigm and adopt theirs.
Precisely, Saudi arabia sucks, so there's no way the western world imitate them.
Knr911 1 year ago
There's a great Dawkins video about being offended, it's called "I'm offended!" and it's in the first featured of my favorites. If you havrn't, I urge you to watch it Jordan, it's short:
watch?v=PaJelU29jeI
Knr911 1 year ago
You also have the right to bear arms, but there may be restrictions.
What do you think will that gay bar open? I'd like to see what happens then.
Blackthorn2323 1 year ago
@Blackthorn2323 It would be interesting if in the planned Muslim community center they will have something for gay Muslim kids, or other groups who don't have it easy.
JeffDresden 1 year ago
EXACTLY what I think.
Finally someone is fucking honest and takes the high road at the same time.
purplefuzzythings 1 year ago
So, if you don't let someone shove his brown dick up your ass after killing your family, you are intollerant? Fuck you.
nitoro81 1 year ago
@nitoro81
Do you realize that the group of muslims building a community center nearly a mile away from ground zero is from a different sect of islam than those who carried out 9-11? This is like blaming all christians for the Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, Crusades, the Holocaust, countless gay bashings, and so on. Can you see how your stance is flawed?
"...shove his brown dick up your ass..." Hmm... Apparently racist, homophobic, and a childish insult level. Bravo.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674
Building a mosque (or any islam-related building) on ground zero, no matter what sect of islam it is for, is not a smart move at all and testifies great lack of sensitivity, at least.
It's not a matter of intollerance from our side, but rather a matter of lack of respect, insensitivity and common sense from theirs.
nitoro81 1 year ago
@nitoro81
So how far from ground zero must a muslim building be to be 'sensitive', then? Are they allowed to build anywhere in America? Are all sects of islam tainted by the actions of a few radical sects? Should gay-bashings and witch trials be attributed to all christians? Playing by your rules, there are many areas in America, and many more in Europe, where no christian building of any sect should be allowed. Same goes for pretty much every major religion.
Do you really wanna go this road?
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674
You are trying to hard pretending you don't get the point, "anon".
nitoro81 1 year ago
@nitoro81
Can you clarify your point, if it is anything other than "All muslims should be held responsible for the actions of a few radicals."?
Shall we treat all muslims as if they all believe the exact same thing, are all radicals and fundamentalists who want to kill us all and shit on western culture? Attacking these muslims makes Americans no better than foreign fundamentalist muslims who won't let non-muslims live among them and build their own places of worship.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674 "All muslims should be held responsible for the actions of a few radicals."
This proves that you don't even read and think on what I write pefore replying.
nitoro81 1 year ago
@nitoro81
No, you just don't present much of a point beyond "Don't let muslims build near ground zero, because it's offensive" What point have I missed? If you want to have an intelligent discussion, please be willing to clarify points that have become lost or muddled.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674
You also keep making up fake quotes and putting words in my mouth.
nitoro81 1 year ago
@nitoro81
I didn't mean it as a quote. And are you not saying we should treat the community center muslims as if they're from the same group as the 9-11 muslims? Why else would you want to bar them from building a community center?
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674
You keep putting words in other people's mouth, making assumptions on what I think just just to support your arguments, making analogies that don't hold. Also, do yourself a favor and sign up to a course on reading comprehension.
nitoro81 1 year ago
@nitoro81
Then how about you actually clarify your damn point, beyond any doubt, instead of leaving me to try and guess it?
I can't help it if you refuse to accept an analogy you don't like
You've stated it's insensitive and disrespectful, but that's no justification to prevent them building. And common sense has no bearing on whether people are allowed to do anything within the law. And do you realize that they are not building their community center 'on' ground zero, but nearly a mile away?
Anon11674 1 year ago
@nitoro81
If anyone is offended by these muslims wanting to build a community center, then they'd be just as unreasonable as those who want to hold American christians responsible for the crimes of the Catholic church.
Why should these people be discriminated against, denied their rights as Americans, just because some people can't get the difference between one group of muslims and another?
Anon11674 1 year ago
I suggest: build a Walmart next to the place where the former Saddam's governative palace is.
nitoro81 1 year ago
Also, I mostly agree with you. Nice video. ;)
TheAnonymouz 1 year ago
It's a community center with two levels for muslim prayer and therefore is not a mosque. It's being built by moderates who did not commit 9/11 and don't believe in the interpretations that inspired 9/11. It's almost two blocks away from the site and you can barely see the 'mosque' which isn't actually a mosque. If victims are offended, I can empathize but they would be basing on a false interpretation. Moderates have nothing to apologize for.
TheAnonymouz 1 year ago
I agree with you 100% on this Jordan.
SuperSparkyMark1 1 year ago
So wait were you being sincere in the first two minuets of the video. because it’s over a block away and stuff.
celestialsalamander 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am offended that Jennifer Aniston called herself Retard!!!!! *sarcasm*
Great vid man :D
I don't really like the term "post-9/11 world" cause... I don't see it that way. But that is propably cause I don't live in USA, where I can see it's effects so damn clearly.
If I would describe this "period" would be, -More predjuice against Muslims-. Leading to radical thoughts and "reasoning".
10thAngel 1 year ago
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10thAngel 1 year ago
When Al Qaeda destroyed the twin towers, they tried to change America. The "mosque" being built in the vicinity of ground zero will be a symbol of their failure.
We mustn't let fear control us like they want it to.
Never agreed with you more.
ThetaOmega 1 year ago
9/11 would be in vain if we became as bad as those who did the act
dunndudebemelol 1 year ago 2
I'm sorry but this whole "I disagree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.....blah blah blah" bullshit, is insincere and is killing Western societies. The line has to be drawn when people who have had family murdered by muslims in the name of islam, have to plead with muslims not to rub their noses in it. Be happy clappy on other issues but not this ~3000 murder-victims one.
redcrushedvelvet 1 year ago
@redcrushedvelvet
The group that carried out 9-11 is not the same group that is building a muslim community center nearly a mile away from ground zero.
By your logic, all christian sects should be barred from building a church in much of Europe, and many areas in America and around the world. That would be 'rubbing it in the nose of all the victims of christianity'
Anon11674 1 year ago
at first I thought you had become completely bat shit insane. :)
tattooskin72 1 year ago
@tattooskin72:
Does attacking Islam makes someone "bat shit insane"?
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@Akatam0t0ma No... making a ridiculous emotional argument is bat shit insane. We have a Constitution here in the US that is supposed to protect religious freedom. As long as no harm is being done and they have purchased the property, it's well within their rights to build the community center. The people rallying against this community center are making themselves look far worse than the people they claim to be against and going against the very freedoms they are trying to protect for themselves
tattooskin72 1 year ago
@tattooskin72:
I'm not talking about the community center per-se, I'm talking about the dangers of practicing self-censorship out of fear of offending a bunch of hypersensitive religionist drones, or the fear of being called racists, or even worse, out of outright genuine undeserved sympathies for an oppressive religion.
The good thing about this controversy, whatever its outcome may be, is that more people are not talking about the religion, and say many things that need to be said.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
Imagine the outrage if we moved to prevent any christian-themed place being built near a site where christians committed an atrocity, regardless of their sect. I think the fundies would literally go to war over it.
Anon11674 1 year ago
You do know the facts behind the whole story, right? The 'mosque' is almost a mile away, with no line-of-sight, it's a community center with a small mosque attached, and the muslims building it are from a different sect than the 9-11 fuckers, supposedly a much more peaceful sect. I have no idea what you know about it, so I'm making sure. To any reasonable person, this muslim community center is no insult.
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674 agreed, If you listen to the people behind the project, it is very clearly not designed as an insult. The opposite on fact, it's supposed top foster relations, build bridges, and be a symbol of unity. If it were to insult anyone, it's the extremists in Al Qaeda who are the losers here.
This issue only became an issue because of right wing bloggers painted it as a victory for the 9/11 perpetrators. There's already a Mosque nearby. This is about stoking up hate for elections.
ScottishAtheist 1 year ago
@ScottishAtheist
Yup. Those right-wing fuckers have been using hate as one of their main campaign tools for decades now. They were working it at least as early as the segregation era.
(And a correction on something I said in first comment: From what I'm hearing, a mosque is a building dedicated to worship, so the muslim community center has a 'prayer space', not a mosque.)
Anon11674 1 year ago
I'm not at all. Especially since this sect of Muslims are sufi. The sufi are the groups that people like bin laden despise the most. Continuing on as if nothing had happened is the biggest smack in the face that you could deliver to the people who blew up the towers.
anonymous0s0egion 1 year ago
I'm 100% for Muslims having the right to build Mosques, so they don't have to be more marginalized than they already are (thanks to bin laden's cowardly actions,) have to meet in people's living rooms,etc. but think they can find another location in NYC to do that. We don't have to tolerate everything in the western world, because we have the right of protest.
JeffDresden 1 year ago
To each his own.
bah408 1 year ago
Im glad i watched the whole video.
Tolerance
well said.
CurrentlyDisconected 1 year ago
Well Jordan, I can't say that the Park 51 project (wich is a cultural center - not a mosque BTW) But I'm glad to see you stand up for an open society, that tolerates even that wich it does not agree with.
Finkeren 1 year ago
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lonovik 1 year ago
At first I was like "wtf?"
Then i watched the rest and it made sense. XD
Great video. :)
MrTear3 1 year ago
i dont give a shit about this mosque even if they were doing it just to piss people off
jimmypubeface23 1 year ago
Nice video.
Vilemk0 1 year ago
This was like that one episode of South Park with the Museum of Tolerance.
Orutra621 1 year ago
I was trying really hard to listen, seriously, but then I kinda got distr-- JUMANJI.
Vic92084 1 year ago 6
@Vic92084
Kidding aside, good vid. I can stomach religion a lot better than you can, it seems, but I TOTALLY agree on the tolerance != acceptance thing.
Vic92084 1 year ago
For the American mosque proponents (Yes all 3), look at a video of people jumping off the twin towers here on youtube, and then look at where they want to build this fucking thing. Yeah, still support it?
TheBiggestWolf 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheBiggestWolf It is not a mosque.
Orutra621 1 year ago
@TheBiggestWolf you have pat condell in your favourites. he is the most biased fuck i've ever seen.
robokill387 1 year ago
@robokill387 I don't have to agree with him on everything to enjoy his videos.
jordanowen42 1 year ago 4
@jordanowen42 one thing i have to say about this topic is Jumanji!
JJTecumseh87 1 year ago
@jordanowen42 love his videos as well but at least with pat you know where his bias is.
eternalfire1244 1 year ago
@jordanowen42 love his videos as well but at least with pat you know where his bias is.
eternalfire1244 1 year ago