God's Messenger And Social Uses Of Religion

[dymchurch1]

I'd like to see theists kept so busy trying to keep THESE ideas out of the schools that there would be no time left over to try to put intelligent design INTO the school curriculums.

[YedemiSeMusaka]

Is it possible to found some of this material in writing ?

[chromolitho]

I think I'm missing something due to unreadable screen.

[Idotgotit]

God dose not work through religion, religion try’s to work through God.

Religion has tried to reproduce God’s truth through out the centuries always

ending with the same results. A miss quote or miss use of a passage and a loss of human life. God did not pick religion for religion picked God. His truth has not changed (Love and compassion to wards one another) this is not meant for an individual race it is meant for all!! Peace be with you!! .

[MrJackclarke]

@Idotgotit what is god in the first place?? the problem with god is that it is tied in with religion no matter what... and people devolop egos becuase of it, and people start disagreeing. and wars start. but the main thing is that god and religions do create an ego and thats the only and biggest evil any species can have. why cant we just have the collective idea that we just need to live as a species that has evovled and work together not agianst each other becuase of man made ideas

[Idotgotit]

@MrJackclarke You have hit the nail on he head, my sentiments exactly. We are here to get a long; it is amazing that you came to the right conclusion. Only you left out the reason for this result! You cannot change a person’s point of view so I won’t try. However what I said is only my point of view and no one else’s. That is why we have the choice of right and wrong.

[Britt3x3]

thanks for these videos!

[ShadowofProclimaton]

I am so mirroring these vids

[ghostmanno12]

the reason why i posted on this video is that we question why salemen and guys claiming to be prophets can be taken at their word and then this guy makes all kinds of propositions (some of them don't make sense) and we can swallow them gullibly just because he is attacking religions. we need to take everything critically, both religions and the people who attack them.

[moety2]

No, don't assume that is everyone reaction. the "He must be right because he is attacking religion" I am not that gullible as u may assume. To me he makes sense because I have previous knowledge of the information he is presenting. I have heard other's that are atheist say things I completely disagree with. Also, someone that is relaying information is not attacking. He is trying to enlighten people. People usually consider information as an attack if it is in conflict with their values.

[ghostmanno12]

yes, again, we agree on many points, but it is still unfair to generalise all religions- even those which you have no knowledge of. What he is doing is using your prejudgments not to enlighten you- not to challenge conventional wisdom but put a kind of structure to your prejudices. In logic, we call this propaganda (false logic). True logic stands to be questioned. That's why for example, he'll present you a picture of osama bin laden and say "see!" and move on.

[moety2]

Perhaps you can name me any religion that doesn't go by faith? Because at the end of the day thats what it comes down to. Also, he would give reasons and explanations why people act the way they do, then show a pic of Bin laden as an example of what he just described. If you are going to criticize something, don't just pick out the part you don't like. As I said before take all of the information in. Could he have worked on it better? Perhaps but that doesn't nullify the information.

[blaziermissy]

@moety2 He used Bin Laden b/c you are more apt to see the flaws of "other culture" beliefs before you would be apt to see the flaws of your own.

It's a strategy to demonstratively show you your own thinking errors...how you don't apply the same logic to your own beliefs. He shows you your confirmation bias when presented with logic about info that is near and dear to you.

[ghostmanno12]

no by using bin laden, he is taking an extreme example to gain himself support because he doesnt point to where bin laden claims to be a messenger (btw, bin laden uses anti-colonial arguments to win his audience, religion is secondary, whereas "messengers" make religion the primary goal of their message.

[moety2]

You assume because he used an extreme example that makes me more likely to agree with him? I would feel the same way if he used Christian example. Your assumption is based on a few sentences on a YT vid. How can you possibly know if I applied my logic or not? So what about the rest of his presentation? Are you religious? I asked because you are doin what is typical of a religious defender. You pick out one part and criticize it like thats suppose to nullify everything else.

[blaziermissy]

@moety2 I don't think we're communicating with each other. He's using a religious example, and one outside of our culture, b/c we're most likely to understand the "outgroup" outside of our culture, then slowly apply that to our own thinking in regard to religious thinking.

No, I'm not religious.

[moety2]

Yes, he is using one outside our TYPICAL culture. Myself personally, I was raised in a muslim household for about 8 years. Then went to a christain church of my own choice for about 3 years and then became an atheist. So you see I have a better understanding of the muslim religion then you might have thought ; )

[moety2]

In case you were wondering, I am an atheist and been one for over 15 years. I decided to check your page and what do I see? A lot of the same things I have watched and saved as well. I am also a member of the Zmovement lol. So you see, maybe it's better to ask and question a person's position before you assume what it is. You know, like I asked are you religious instead of deciding you are without any relevant information  lol

[moety2]

He's not challenging my conventional wisdom, he is doing that to the people who believe in religion. How is this logic false. Anyone can question him. He came to a conclusion based on information he's gathered and is presenting it. How is that propaganda? The propaganda is callin it such when it's clearly not. "structure to your prejudices" Seriously, my "prejudices" had structure long before him. It's based on reality not myths and faiths that were created thousands of years ago.

[blaziermissy]

@ghostmanno12 then please use that same "critical analyses" of other gods and why you don't accept them....and apply the same "critical analysis" to your own god.

[ghostmanno12]

but i do.

what evidence have you that i am not using that same "critical analysis" to God?

I won't hold my breath on that one

[blaziermissy]

@ghostmanno12 IF you applied the "same" critical analysis that you use to dismiss the other gods of the world to "your" god, then you'd dismiss your god as you did the others.

Indoctrination. Culture. Wishful thinking. Social attachment theory. Authority figure. Feelings of safeness and security.

[ghostmanno12]

your evidence of me not 'critclly thnkn' is that I aint atheist. i applied that first analysis to dismiss the idea of many gods- not to God. I use a different logic for that. You assumed based on your atheism that there is only one logic and that's yours. you should question that. At least Moety has! Even though he is an atheist at least he is academic enough to realise that dr andy doesn't really understand the examples he uses concerning muslims. I can provide better examples for him :)

[blaziermissy]

@ghostmanno12

So tell me.........what's this "special" logic that you use for the god you've been exposed to/believe in? Why is this god deserving of a special twist of logic? Why do you dismiss the others so easily?

There is only one logic. It's universal. lol.

[ghostmanno12]

thank you!! i was waiting for you to ask that question. It pays not to assume things of others even if you entirely disagree with them. I dont make assumptions about you being a heretic who does all what religious nuts accuse you of! for now im making my own video for a cause im advocating (i'll invite you on fb!), so you'll have to wait. lol i didnt get any sleep last night.

[blaziermissy]

@ghostmanno12

LOL! Calling me a heretic and nut is a simple way to avoid answering the question about your "special logic" you utilize for the "special" god that you believe in.

So all the other gods are false?

Hmmmmmm

[ghostmanno12]

sorry blazier i think you misunderstood.

I said (I AM NOT CALLING YOU A NUT). I actually think you're an open minded person. That's why i am bothering with this conversation. I am just working around the clock on this project. (just READ my last post again). like i said, i'll email you tonight or tomorrow. Take care.

[moety2]

Hold on now, you are putting words into my mouth. I think Dd. andy is using fairlyy decent examples. He could have used a few more from mild leading towards extreme. Where you got that I think he doesn't understand his examples is beyond me and unwarrented lol. As Blaz asked, what special logic you use for other/past gods that you don't use for your view of god. That statement of yours is very confusing. Sounds like you view "God" in your own way which is personal. Please explain.

[blaziermissy]

@ghostmanno12 Do you believe those Muslims were guided or told by "ALLAH" to fly planes into the twin towers? Do you believe Allah spoke to them because he is a REAL entity?

[ghostmanno12]

blaz, sorry if i dont reply to all, i only got an email update to one of ur posts.

To your question about towers and bombers- the answers are no and no. Osama bin laden doesnt use scriptural proofs to back up his claim. i've listened to his talks! Even the most conservative saudi clerics say that he is an outcast with no authority- but he uses marxist claims.

[ghostmanno12]

some christians say the same thing when you question them about what a guy says in a christian lecture. " go and research it and you will find out the truth (and i am right)" LOL at his using of hollywood movies to support his explanation of islamist terrorism and extrapolating it to all religions in the next sentence.

I study logic-these arguments are not organised logically but he is playing upon your prejudices- there is some evidence but it is used in a propaganda fashion

[ghostmanno12]

as a muslim i was looking forward to this video. I'm gonna get into this debate further. This guy didn't develop his ideas enough, and relies on our prejudices to form conclusions. He also uses absolute examples "All religions..." and extreme examples (flashing a picture of Osama and mentioning Wahabism doesn't present an argument). These are both easy to rebut. I'll view the other clips later. Seems promising :)

[spoddie]

He is presenting a summary of psychology with relation to religion. He is a scientist and expects listeners to go off and read the details themselves. If you want to rebut his ideas then you are going to have to do a lot of research.

[ghostmanno12]

ok, hey, im open about self criticism and i do it all the time, but when I criticise atheism i do a lot of research on atheism before i go into it.

check out the stuff at 2mins- us and them mentality "i am athiest, you are theist" vice versa- applies "i'm smart, you're dumb" mentality

i dont agree with 3:40 (his definition of religion is an encyclopedia definition of cult mentality) and at 4 mins - those uses of religion are extreme and he uses extreme examples to back himself up.

[spoddie]

I think you missed the point at 2:00, he is saying that group mentallity is a natural part of human thinking, but a very dangerous one. "all of us have the vunerablity to see the out group ... as prey animals".

We'll have to agree to disagree on 3:40!

4:00, perhaps he is overly cynical there, I don't agree with him. I dislike religion but I don't ascribe evil /intentions/ to leaders and followers, I'm sure most are sincere.

[ghostmanno12]

exactly, i agree with everything you said above. I obviously believe religions have value.

With defining religions, we need to be careful because they frame our debates. If religion means what he said it is, then religions are disgusting and no one should believe in them. when i talk to people about God, i say "tell me what you think God is, because I might actually agree with you about that kind of God being captured by the word "God"!.

anyways, its 1am in sydney bye!

[spoddie]

It's midnight in Tokyo so I can make one more comment before bed.

You won't agree with this: I do think all religion is bad. If you asked me what I think about God you may well be offended. Not because I've insulted you personally, but my ideas about religion are rather strong and not easily sugar coated.

[ghostmanno12]

you can send me an email. It depends on definitions, i probably agree with you.

I might not be as emotional as you but i can put that to the side and sift through your thoughts ....

[moety2]

Religions only have value because the good stuff or what a person would consider good is taken out and all the negative stuff is usually ignored. I believe you have to take it all in then decide the value. Example Christianity, goin over the originals in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Numbers and Exodus I am sorry to say it is a sad joke made at a time when people obviously knew very little. I find it hard to say there is value in religions when most people only acknowledge the good parts.

[ghostmanno12]

Moety2, i agree! call a spade a spade! Religions brainwash people! The Quran criticises various ideologies/religions (both poly and mono) and how humans use/abuse them. you need to take religions as a whole but don't make assumptions about them in ignorance. you should take a look at what Islam has to say about religions specifically. "There IS NO GOD EXCEPT GOD, Muhammad is the Messenger of God" to believe you must know the reasons for it- we ALL need to question what we believe in and why.

[spoddie]

We atheists need more evidence than just it's written in an old book. Islam no more meets that standard than any other religion.

But that is a tangenent from what this video is about. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is a least slightly offended by you trying to prosletyze on a video that has nothing to do with Islam.

[MeowCrimeFighter]

Read Irvin Yalom. Religion is a way to diminish death anxiety. Nobody wants to cease to exist (but we all will). Religion plants in people's minds some comfort that they will live forever and ever in Heaven with God---yeah, right. I'm suppose to love Jesus more than my children? Nahhhhh, don't think so!!

[troubledb]

how can you take religion serious when they wear fuckin dresses & yap shit. i had to go to a christenin the other day & he never struck me down after years of tellin god to kiss my arse. fuckin borin dull places. why is it the roofs are always fucked. jesus could part the sea (yeah right) & turn water to wine yet his dad cant fix a fuckin roof. jesus was just a drug dealer gettin all the dead heads to believe he could do things when they were trippin there tits off.

[MAdk1p]

meh, anyone that has done 30 minutes of skeptical thinking about religion already knows the things he says. only thing i didnt know was at the end he said psychology of religion will be taught in schools and that he expects court cases. LOL. sooner the better, i feel like earth is a huge cult compound you cant escape

[KARIN094]

Fantastic lecture! This class should be in all educational institutions. Need to educate the fantasy out of our populace!

Example; got an email on how a childs last chemotherapy treatment successfully removed all the cancer cells. Awesome! What isnt great, is that God was thanked for it! The entire past 3 years of treatment.

What about all the doctors? Or, about all the science and technology behind finding cures? I would be running around hugging everyone in that hospital!!!!!

[Nocturnalux]

@KARIN094 I wish that those 'Thank God for *add something* realized that it is borderline insulting to those that actually did the good to atribute it to imaginary beings. It really is annoying.

[SlimakFilms]

religion is bullshit. I'm not gonna sugar coat it either. It is a lie. I understand how people are manipulated into it though. Because people are curious on how the world got here, and they get desperate for answers. So they turn to whichever religion is better at persuading them on what to believe. And as later generations are growing up, they go by what their parents go by. Its all about who is better at persuading, and who can tell the best story

amen

[chairde]

Listen Bush was put into office by the 'Christian right wing'. He is the prime example of why politics and religion should never be mixed. I often wonder if those crazy fanatics who supported him are sorry for what they did to our country. Do they even realize the death and destruction they caused????

[PisAhni]

Excellent!

[tryingtobereal]

I think organized religion is the hijacking of human spirituality, Ritualized human values.

All in order to create integrity within the group,and in western culture expliot. Individual spirituality is dangerous as so long as you have an attachment to the established world order's view.

Ultimately people are group creatures

The perfeet example of Religion used as a brainwashing tool is white jesus given to all the colonized nations.

[alphacause]

FFreeThinker, thanks so much for posting videos from Dr. Thomason JR. They are quite illuminating. One of the best ways to denude religion of much of its mystique, and therefore power, is to underscore the very human, natural, and sociological ways in which religions develop. By showing that religions - ALL RELIGIONS - are just natural psychological phenomenon, we can further push society away from their irrational reliance on supernatural beliefs, and build a better world.

[drprasad79]

Thanks a lot for this video. I hope this video is seen by as many theist as atheists.

[Mahoivlich]

This prof have any books?

[agnosticman77]

This is fantastic.

[thizizliz]

That is the best wording I've ever heard. Well done. Thank you for posting it.

[RedDaVincy]

Mentions anti-Jewish slurs... doesn't mention anti-everyone-else slurs from Jewish extremists; everyone else is a cockroach, that comes to mind.

[grozny12]

Brilliant, I'm glad I subscribed.

[DeletedDelusion]

Brilliant series, this should be common knowledge.

[HiAdrian]

Very good presentation (again).

[GegoXaren]

+1 to that...

[Thunderwavia]

Wow, thanks! I experienced dehumanization and marginalization based on a group proposing something called the Muslim Brotherhood project in TORONTO, and its expansion into Universities and Corporations there. So how does one counter a religious movement that does not tolerate the exsistance of anything other than Islam or Christianity for that matter, in our civil society? Take them all to a Human Rights Commission? infiltration of religious dogma into civil society especially Islam?

[ArtypNk]

And M`key. Why cant he work on his language?

[ArtypNk]

Its informative I agree. But as I go through the video, the only thought I have, `Will you stop saying `you know` !?!?!?`

[justseanmusic]

wow

that was great, i never thought about the phycology behind religion before.

i would back the teaching of religious phycology in schools 100%, people need to hear it before they blow themselves up :)

[AtOneWithNothing7]

Does anybody know the quote at 4:45?

Little tough to read.

[CO2Junkie]

The quote at 4:45 is:

With the coming of the Savior Jesus Christ, God has willed that the Church founded by Him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity. This truth of faith... rules out, in a radical way... the belief that "one religion is as good as another".

Cardinal Ratzinger, August 200X (Can't read the year.)

[AtOneWithNothing7]

Thanks!

[aaronhallam61]

"With the coming of the Savior Jesus Christ, God has willed that the church founded by Him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity. This truth of faith ... rules out, in a radical way, ... the belief that 'one religion is as good as another.'"

-Dominus Iesus 2000-08-06

[marsCubed]

"God has willed that the church founded by Him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity."

That's what they all say.

[crackerkiller89]

You wanna talk about salvation. Lets talk about how your god's church suppressed europe for 1600+ years. Lets talk about the Christian burning of the Alexandria Library. Lets talk about the Crusades. Lets talk about all the killings of people working on the sabbath. Lets talk about the dark ages brought on by your god's church. What Salvation? Just face the truth, your so-called church of salvation has done alot mor harm than it has good.

[Homer177]

Yeah, and here's what's worse: Christians always say things like "Oh well this happened because religion was hijacked." Yeah, it was hijacked by Christians themselves. They took pagan shrines and converted them into Christian churches, as well as burning any writings they didn't agree with in order to conceal the truth. There's very little that is spiritual about Christianity, and it's not difficult to see when you observe it's leaders as well as its followers.

[crackerkiller89]

Youre right and they dont even realize this. No. i think more like they close their eyes to it. I know if they opened them they would see all the harm their religion has done this world, and very little good compared to the harm. There is NOTHING that religion offers(other than fake answers) that cannot be attained through secular means. NOTHING. Its sad though how many close their eyes to the truth.

[aaronhallam61]

You're replying to ME? Uh, dude, I think you got your wires crossed. I'm areligious.

[thepoison1627]

that was fuckin awesome

thanks for posting!

[thunderpants10]

wicked cool

[AtOneWithNothing7]

Very interesting series. Thank's for posting it!

[jbuhls]

absolutely brilliant

[8WholeThing]

Thank you for this series.