@vgmaster9 I have no idea if it is official or not. But it's a GAME. Play it how you want to play it. WH is a really good way to spend money on little bits of plastic. I prefer buying books.
@tetsubo57 I'd rather see it as an official army than something just fanmade. I used to buy some miniatures and really felt like playing, but it seemed rather complex and not how I expected lol. I just think it's a very cool looking game.
And one more thing I'd like to add. Wisdom. A reason for getting the penalty here would be that this race has only existed for a couple years. They have very little knowledge of how the world works as far as people and other living races go. There are things about life they will not truly understand yet, and some that they just can't grasp. They are new and alien to the world and even to themselves. They were not born so they could experience life, they were made for war.
I do however agree to some degree about what you were saying regarding non lethal damage. I do think they should have some resilience to it or something. Though we can't forget that in the game you can still use non lethal damage against a warrior in full plate. One could think that it's getting to his face or a small area w/o protection but then again WF do have some wooden parts that may not be as strong as one might think in those areas.
... they could give the most dangerous orders to the WF with out risking human life or if it really called for it, only a few human lives. WF are the robots of Eberron, and many humans to the current day of the game do not feel they are truly living creatures. They are the best workers, slaves, guards, manual labor one could hope for. The fact that many of that race don't even know what to do with themselves is perfect for those that want labor that doesn't eat or sleep. I know I would.
Another thing I'd like to comment on. Why all WF are pretty much the same. Well I would imagine creating a sentient race to begin with would be incredibly difficult and costly. Not to mention that the race as a whole was meant to be grunts. They were not meant for any other role in war than for fodder. It's what they were built for to reduce the cost of lives in the war. I for one would think that humans would prefer to be giving orders to troops that are not humans themselves....
..... I know from experience that a con is a great stat, not just for fighters but for any class. Why you may ask? Hit points. Even with a high strength if you don't have the hp, you're going down. With a high con, you ensure that you will be able to dish out damage and take it. Con is actually the first stat I consider when making any warrior. Having more HP is more important than what my Str is. Yes I like having a high str but more HP is always better.
I too really like the PF structure, but it was also designed to increase the power level of a game over all. WF would deserve the level adjustment if you give them more power than any other race. a +2 con and str alone along with all of the other abilities and penalties they have would increase their over all power level. Dwarves favor the fighter class because they are militant by nature. Also a +2 con is still a very good stat to get a bonus in for a fighter....
I think the thing with Wisdom can follow this way:
They are constructs made to fight FOR people. If you were to create sentient warrior for the purpose of being in your army, wouldn't you want to make sure they are under your "cloud" of control, not able to see behind the current?
@Monessenite I still think if you wanted purpose built warriors you would have given them a Strength bonus. Within the D&D universe, a Strength bonus is sort of the 'thing' for warrior races. I mean, look at orcs.
I'm not saying you make a bad argument. I guess I prefer a PF style bonus structure. And I would make the WF a +2 St, +2 Cn & -2 Ch.
I agree on the +2 Strength, issue, but I did want to offer a reasonable justification for the Wis. On the other hand, I don't think Dwarves always have a Str Bonus. Orcs get it, but they are technically NPCs and a Monster Race
@tetsubo57 You're forgetting Dwarves, who also favor the Fighter class. They do not have a strength bonus. It's a con bonus. The other thing I'd like to comment on is that you say you like the PF structure for races, however, one thing to consider is that the race of warforged, the races of Eberron were created before PF. It was all designed with the same structure for the 3.5 rules set. If they had a +2 to con and str they would have a level adjustment. which they wanted to avoid.
@icewind1462 Which is a great explanation for why I am favoring PF over core 3.5 now I guess. There is no way that the WF deserve a LA. I also have never really understood why Dwarves had that favored class. Oddly, wouldn't Expert be a better favored class for Dwarves? Miners, craftsmen, etc.
I'm fairly new to DnD, know just enough to roughly DM a game between my friends, I'm using 4e rather than 3.5 cause it's easier for me to run things in terms of teaching it to new players. I'm also homebrewing a bit, by making a warforged vampire, Basically it'll be a warforged constructed by a necromancer that turned it into a blood sucking warforged abomination constructed around a human that was turned into a vampire.
@tetsubo57 I must say I agree with you on the +2 Strength and not a -2 Wisdom, A warrior is wise if anything. It's the warrior alternative to intelligence checks, while not a primary stat, a warrior lacking both int and wisdom will just be a walking meat shield, or in this case, a metal shield. But it reminds me of how DnD should be a group experience, and that if you lack a group without a capable wisdom character, there's something fundamentally wrong with it.
D&D online has warforged. I'm playing a 32 point monk and almost level 3, and the custom build is the equivalent of +2/-2/-2 choice. So reallya 30 point build. Either way, auto-stabilize + no need for water breathing ring is a nice trade for two attribute points.
I tend to veer towardds the less common. My next new character is going to be in a 4E game, a hybrid wilden Warlock/Bard multiclassed into Spellscarred. If spellscarred is a multiclass. Either way....
-2 wisdom because with the -2 charisma, seeing they are in fact "alien", they can't reflect upon their past events as easily and much more affectively in reality. Wisdom is how we take up our experience and try to use it to our advantages. If we can't comprehend and communicate well with others and others don't come to understand us, we can't "reflect" on our past as well.
Wisdom could be defined as 'judgment'. And just because you view the world *differently* doesn't mean you are impaired in your ability to judge how your actions have effected you in the past. Or extrapolated how they will effect things in the future.
I agree with wood. Given their benefits and history, I'd probably go -2 to all mental stats, +2 to Str and Con, justifying that they WERE NOT BUILT TO BE CASTERS. You can be a Warforged caster, but you go against type. I also disagree with your assessment that all warforged are armor plated, I think of them more as rubber skinned, meaning that while they are synthetic beings and tougher (considering their con bonus), they are not necessarily any harder to stab or beat up than the average mook
Also, to continue justifying the stat abilities I picked, they were not built to be inventors or socialites. Reacting with people or creating things is something outside of the scope of their creation, hence penalties.
I also question why they would have been built specifically without armored plating and at medium size, considering the denizens of D&D. I chalk that up to the God of Cool Races to Play.
I've been receiving a number of different reactions to this vid. Some reeact as you have and think my ideas are 'broken'. Some agree with me and express their own ideas about what I said. And some people fully endorse my ideas and think they are great. I obviously like the ideas. But it is fascinating to see how gamers differ in their views on the same topic.
I'm pretty sure "pick any two stats you want for bonus, any one for a neg" is broken. Very little thinking to do with it. You pick two stats that are better for your class to have, and pick one to dump that your class has no need for.
Or just shop around for a race that meets your needs... I'm just cutting out the middle man. I see no difference between my Warforged suggestion and just choosing a race that has the stat bonuses you desire.
I tend to have a list of 'approved' races. But rarely does it not include all the possible options a player could want. There are enough limitations to the Warforged that even with my optional ideas, there would still be players not interested. Like I've said before, I never bow deeply at the altar of balance.
Giving Warforce the stats you suggest is an absolutely terrible idea. Warforce are the most unbalanced race in all of the WOTC 3.5 D&D line. I played an Eberron game, one of the other players was a warforge, even with the -2 net stats, his character was way over powered as is. I'm guessing you've never seen a WF in action as you'd understand they are broken as is. the -2 to wis is do to the fact they are a new race & built with a limited understanding of the world, their minds are poorly made
lmao, my guild name is warforged.. youtube warforged moon guard for our raid kills atm 1/7 heroic 8/5/11
denshal 7 months ago
I'd like to see Warhammer Fantasy to have an army based on the Warforged.
vgmaster9 1 year ago
@vgmaster9 Don't they jave cyborgs in WH40K?
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 You mean the Necrons? Yeah, but it would be pretty cool to see a Warhammer Fantasy version of those guys.
vgmaster9 1 year ago
@vgmaster9 So create a custom army. The custom figure community would probably help with that if you asked. Advice is often free.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 I'm not really a Warhammer player lol, and I never knew you could actually make your own armies, I thought that was an exhibition thing,
vgmaster9 1 year ago
@vgmaster9 I have no idea if it is official or not. But it's a GAME. Play it how you want to play it. WH is a really good way to spend money on little bits of plastic. I prefer buying books.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 I'd rather see it as an official army than something just fanmade. I used to buy some miniatures and really felt like playing, but it seemed rather complex and not how I expected lol. I just think it's a very cool looking game.
vgmaster9 1 year ago
And one more thing I'd like to add. Wisdom. A reason for getting the penalty here would be that this race has only existed for a couple years. They have very little knowledge of how the world works as far as people and other living races go. There are things about life they will not truly understand yet, and some that they just can't grasp. They are new and alien to the world and even to themselves. They were not born so they could experience life, they were made for war.
icewind1462 1 year ago
I do however agree to some degree about what you were saying regarding non lethal damage. I do think they should have some resilience to it or something. Though we can't forget that in the game you can still use non lethal damage against a warrior in full plate. One could think that it's getting to his face or a small area w/o protection but then again WF do have some wooden parts that may not be as strong as one might think in those areas.
icewind1462 1 year ago
... they could give the most dangerous orders to the WF with out risking human life or if it really called for it, only a few human lives. WF are the robots of Eberron, and many humans to the current day of the game do not feel they are truly living creatures. They are the best workers, slaves, guards, manual labor one could hope for. The fact that many of that race don't even know what to do with themselves is perfect for those that want labor that doesn't eat or sleep. I know I would.
icewind1462 1 year ago
Another thing I'd like to comment on. Why all WF are pretty much the same. Well I would imagine creating a sentient race to begin with would be incredibly difficult and costly. Not to mention that the race as a whole was meant to be grunts. They were not meant for any other role in war than for fodder. It's what they were built for to reduce the cost of lives in the war. I for one would think that humans would prefer to be giving orders to troops that are not humans themselves....
icewind1462 1 year ago
..... I know from experience that a con is a great stat, not just for fighters but for any class. Why you may ask? Hit points. Even with a high strength if you don't have the hp, you're going down. With a high con, you ensure that you will be able to dish out damage and take it. Con is actually the first stat I consider when making any warrior. Having more HP is more important than what my Str is. Yes I like having a high str but more HP is always better.
icewind1462 1 year ago
I too really like the PF structure, but it was also designed to increase the power level of a game over all. WF would deserve the level adjustment if you give them more power than any other race. a +2 con and str alone along with all of the other abilities and penalties they have would increase their over all power level. Dwarves favor the fighter class because they are militant by nature. Also a +2 con is still a very good stat to get a bonus in for a fighter....
icewind1462 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Do you play Dungeons and Dragons Online? (MMORPG made by Turbine)
Viktir666 1 year ago
@Viktir666 No, I don't. The internet eats up enough of my time already. I can't afford to lose any more. :)
tetsubo57 1 year ago
i agree with u
bloodyhawk989 1 year ago
I think the thing with Wisdom can follow this way:
They are constructs made to fight FOR people. If you were to create sentient warrior for the purpose of being in your army, wouldn't you want to make sure they are under your "cloud" of control, not able to see behind the current?
Monessenite 1 year ago 2
@Monessenite I still think if you wanted purpose built warriors you would have given them a Strength bonus. Within the D&D universe, a Strength bonus is sort of the 'thing' for warrior races. I mean, look at orcs.
I'm not saying you make a bad argument. I guess I prefer a PF style bonus structure. And I would make the WF a +2 St, +2 Cn & -2 Ch.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57
I agree on the +2 Strength, issue, but I did want to offer a reasonable justification for the Wis. On the other hand, I don't think Dwarves always have a Str Bonus. Orcs get it, but they are technically NPCs and a Monster Race
Monessenite 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 You're forgetting Dwarves, who also favor the Fighter class. They do not have a strength bonus. It's a con bonus. The other thing I'd like to comment on is that you say you like the PF structure for races, however, one thing to consider is that the race of warforged, the races of Eberron were created before PF. It was all designed with the same structure for the 3.5 rules set. If they had a +2 to con and str they would have a level adjustment. which they wanted to avoid.
icewind1462 1 year ago
@icewind1462 Which is a great explanation for why I am favoring PF over core 3.5 now I guess. There is no way that the WF deserve a LA. I also have never really understood why Dwarves had that favored class. Oddly, wouldn't Expert be a better favored class for Dwarves? Miners, craftsmen, etc.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
I'm fairly new to DnD, know just enough to roughly DM a game between my friends, I'm using 4e rather than 3.5 cause it's easier for me to run things in terms of teaching it to new players. I'm also homebrewing a bit, by making a warforged vampire, Basically it'll be a warforged constructed by a necromancer that turned it into a blood sucking warforged abomination constructed around a human that was turned into a vampire.
Vathain 1 year ago
@Vathain Well, at least you won't have to worry that anyone else at the table is playing one. :)
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 I must say I agree with you on the +2 Strength and not a -2 Wisdom, A warrior is wise if anything. It's the warrior alternative to intelligence checks, while not a primary stat, a warrior lacking both int and wisdom will just be a walking meat shield, or in this case, a metal shield. But it reminds me of how DnD should be a group experience, and that if you lack a group without a capable wisdom character, there's something fundamentally wrong with it.
Vathain 1 year ago
D&D online has warforged. I'm playing a 32 point monk and almost level 3, and the custom build is the equivalent of +2/-2/-2 choice. So reallya 30 point build. Either way, auto-stabilize + no need for water breathing ring is a nice trade for two attribute points.
I tend to veer towardds the less common. My next new character is going to be in a 4E game, a hybrid wilden Warlock/Bard multiclassed into Spellscarred. If spellscarred is a multiclass. Either way....
khzhak 1 year ago
-2 wisdom because with the -2 charisma, seeing they are in fact "alien", they can't reflect upon their past events as easily and much more affectively in reality. Wisdom is how we take up our experience and try to use it to our advantages. If we can't comprehend and communicate well with others and others don't come to understand us, we can't "reflect" on our past as well.
TotemChakra 2 years ago
Wisdom could be defined as 'judgment'. And just because you view the world *differently* doesn't mean you are impaired in your ability to judge how your actions have effected you in the past. Or extrapolated how they will effect things in the future.
tetsubo57 2 years ago
if you ask me dungeons and dragons online is way better then wow but that my opinion =)
TheNosferatu5 2 years ago
I haven't tried it. I'm afriad of the 'time sink' aspect.
tetsubo57 2 years ago
I agree with wood. Given their benefits and history, I'd probably go -2 to all mental stats, +2 to Str and Con, justifying that they WERE NOT BUILT TO BE CASTERS. You can be a Warforged caster, but you go against type. I also disagree with your assessment that all warforged are armor plated, I think of them more as rubber skinned, meaning that while they are synthetic beings and tougher (considering their con bonus), they are not necessarily any harder to stab or beat up than the average mook
azirk83 2 years ago
Also, to continue justifying the stat abilities I picked, they were not built to be inventors or socialites. Reacting with people or creating things is something outside of the scope of their creation, hence penalties.
I also question why they would have been built specifically without armored plating and at medium size, considering the denizens of D&D. I chalk that up to the God of Cool Races to Play.
azirk83 2 years ago
I've been receiving a number of different reactions to this vid. Some reeact as you have and think my ideas are 'broken'. Some agree with me and express their own ideas about what I said. And some people fully endorse my ideas and think they are great. I obviously like the ideas. But it is fascinating to see how gamers differ in their views on the same topic.
tetsubo57 2 years ago
I'm pretty sure "pick any two stats you want for bonus, any one for a neg" is broken. Very little thinking to do with it. You pick two stats that are better for your class to have, and pick one to dump that your class has no need for.
azirk83 2 years ago
Or just shop around for a race that meets your needs... I'm just cutting out the middle man. I see no difference between my Warforged suggestion and just choosing a race that has the stat bonuses you desire.
tetsubo57 2 years ago
Well, I don't allow infinite race options in my games. I'd be hard pressed to find a GM that does (present company apparently excluded).
azirk83 2 years ago
I tend to have a list of 'approved' races. But rarely does it not include all the possible options a player could want. There are enough limitations to the Warforged that even with my optional ideas, there would still be players not interested. Like I've said before, I never bow deeply at the altar of balance.
tetsubo57 2 years ago
I will just have to disagree with you both.
tetsubo57 2 years ago
Giving Warforce the stats you suggest is an absolutely terrible idea. Warforce are the most unbalanced race in all of the WOTC 3.5 D&D line. I played an Eberron game, one of the other players was a warforge, even with the -2 net stats, his character was way over powered as is. I'm guessing you've never seen a WF in action as you'd understand they are broken as is. the -2 to wis is do to the fact they are a new race & built with a limited understanding of the world, their minds are poorly made
woodwwad 2 years ago