Mosaic News - 1/22/10: World News From The Middle East

[calgary0987]

hi gjkg bvgf uyufrtrdg vdhgtk kjkj dsd dfsgkuhj ggfsdhjhfs jhghkkn

[vistavision2]

Pyscospores,

Your commentary is purposed to excuse Israeli malevolence and mine is purposed to speak Truth;

Because I'm a 100% proponent of International law, It translates as 100% EQUITABLE application to the context:

1 UNGA 181 is THE "'Two state solution' in Economic Union"

2 UNSC 242 is the UN Chapter VII Chartered course.

3 Laws of Armed Conflict- Hague, Geneva, Principles of Nuremberg etc

100% Equal support for UNGA 273 State of Israel within UN Chartered Course.

[psychospores]

I wasn't trying to excuse Israel's anything. I started off by showing how I can understand Israel's current point of view, and since that, I have done little more than theorize. I am not trying to misinform anyone, but maybe help someone (or me) to see a different side of things.

I have been thinking about this all day. I'm done with this discussion for now, unless you have something critical to add. In the meantime, I'm going to go learn some new dance moves from your channel ;-)

[vistavision2]

My three loves: politics, war & ladies and not necessarily in that order.

[Izzle718]

Thank You.

[psychospores]

Netanyahu: You know, we walked away from Lebanon and got an Iranian enclave and a missile base there. We walked away from Gaza and we got an Iranian enclave and a missile base there, a missile base from which we have been rocketed - from both of them. We don't want to walk away from areas in the West Bank and have them become a third Iranian base, so we must ensure that these areas are not penetrated by terrorists or by rockets or missiles that will be directed in our way."

[psychospores]

I am sure the Israeli presence could be seen as temporary, and the need for it would be dependant on the success of a peace process. If tensions between Israel and Palestine ever decreased, removing the IDF from the West Bank would not be unthinkable.

[vistavision2]

pyschospores, Israeli acts in its occupatiion of UNAG 181 State of Palestine are qualified as Principles of Nuremberg VI (c) Crimes Against Humanity and not "tensions"

Palestinian acts are acts of self-defense. Israel is occupying Palestine and NO T Palestine Israel.

How is aggression & self-defense defined? BORDERS.

Borders for both states of Israel & Palestine are demaracted in UNAG 181 Part II Boundaries.

[psychospores]

I understand that the borders drawn by UNAG 181 were an attempt to accommodate both sides, based on demographics, but it made the region look like a pane of shattered glass. And most of the best shards went to the Arabs. Those borders have not been recognized since 1948. Reverting to the borders drawn in 1947 would only further intensify the already much more than "tense" situation. I'm not justifying the violation of international agreements, I am only trying to see this realistically.

[psychospores]

Israel's continued occupation of the West Bank is, in my opinion, both an act of aggression and of self-defense. However, Israel's continued expansion is nothing more than aggression. But, if Palestine wants a state, there must be willingness to compromise based on the current shape of things. That is just the way it is, life isn't fair. If things continue as they are, Israel will always be able to find support and justification for occupation and expansion.

[vistavision2]

Psyhco, Your crazy how can aggrtession & self-defense be one and the same?

Are light & darkness one & the same?

Are being in violation & systemic contravention to LOAC & UN Charter & being in compliance one & the same?

Is good & evil one & the same?

This is not 1949, 1967, 1981, 2006, nor even 2008:

1949: Arab governments vs Israel

1967: Israel vs Arab governments

1981: Israel vs PLO

2006: Israel vs Hezbollah

2008: Israel vs Hamas

[psychospores]

I thought that made logical sense until I tried to explain it. fine, scratch aggression. Israel's occupation is self-defense. Expansion is still aggression.

I'll not answer the rhetorical questions.

what is the relevance of the rest of your comment?

[vistavision2]

Psycho, Did you not raise the issues of continued violence & realistic assessment?

The difference between your commentary & mine is that your's is academic & theoretical where mine is refelctive of the context & pragmatic applications.

[psychospores]

Yeah, I sort of agree. I had been thinking something similar.

Your research is more complete than mine, and you are strictly adhering to what you learned in your research. I will admit that my opinion is based more strongly in theory, than in fact, but I feel that the concrete and abstract are both necessary to find a solution. Not that I think we are going to solve anything here, but the debate is useful, even if only for my own purposes. Even arguing with Abbie was educational at times.

[vistavision2]

Israelis Right now cant set the parameters & pace for their UNSC 242 compliance but are Likud is stuck on stupid of plundering UNGA 181 Palestine.

Sure Israel requires Strategic Depth which can only be acquired by surrounding itself with friendly States [Gov's & peoples]:

1 Palestine is THE tipover point to thereafter swing Syria & Lebanon in Peace Agreements

2 OR tipover point: Failure- Peace with Palestine- implodes & Jordan Gov falls & thereafter Egypt back to square one.

[vistavision2]

3 20 years later its attempting to support Fatah which may be 10 years too late.

Strategy has only two applcations that anyone that learns them can be a General: Spearhead thrust or envelopment.

Herzlites understood this: Self-envelopment with peaceful states.

Likud has tried to bypass Palestine & faile to secure even backdoor dialogue with Syria & Lebanon.

I personally knew Arafat & Asssad [Dad] & both were ready to make the Peace within UNSC 242 context/modalties

[vistavision2]

My communication wiht Shamir & Begin was one time only.

There was a deal on te table with Rabin but they prefereed to kill him,

Another deal wit h Sharon where they could keep three largerst settlements but they turned him into a vegetable.

I'm tired of these Netanyahu sons-of-bitches that violate every agreement for the last 23 years so if its war to froce them to comply then so be it!

[vistavision2]

Netnayahu throws another ballon out..

Transitional Security : Netanyahu, I would not be disagreeable to IDF presence on the Palestine-Jordan border during a transitional period with the PREREQUISITE vacating 100% of War Criminal settlements.

Prerequiiste vacating war crimes settlments: IDF TRANSITIONAL [calendric] presence for contextual strategic security and NOT for securing/protecting plunder of war crimes settlements

Inclusive of proposed Joint IDF-PAF AirSpace Patrol

[psychospores]

How did you personally know Arafat? This time I call Bull Shit! We were just making fun of Abbie for saying she used to work for Peres, and then you hit me with that?

[vistavision2]

I wasn't making fun of Abbie fro claiming to work fro Peres: you were.

She exposed herself as a fraud when she claimed to be American but did not know anything about life in the US.

She doesn't have the political sklillset to have been aide nor intel operative to keep an eye on him.

I care not what you or anyone else thinks: It only matters to those who know.

My name alone is enough proof.

Its not like you represent an Israeli politcal party, IDF party, mossad etc.

[psychospores]

Okay, alright. As a general rule, I don't believe most things people say about themselves on the internet. Maybe you did know Arafat. Maybe Abbie did do something for Peres. Neither of you have to prove anything to me.

But, if you weren't trying to prove something, why did you bring it up in the first place? I guess it doesn't matter. It was rude of me to say anything, and I have been excessively rude to Abbie too.

[vistavision2]

Psy, The Whitehouse & IDF have youtube channels so what does that tell you? Its called "Public Diplomacy".

Israeli Foreing Ministry Hasbara department actually has contractors who pose as Americans, Brits, Aussies ete appyling "grey propaganda"

"White propaganda" [Telling the truth] is is rarely used.

CREDIBILITY is the foundation of all personal relationships including governmental- diplomatic, military, & intelligence.

[vistavision2]

Do you think the CIA just waltzed into Palestine in 2003 to train Palestinian Security Forces or that the groundwork was laid years in advance by operators?

A Dept Motor Vehicles was not part of the "RedBook Series" for Palestinian Governance as in the states it is a state agency & not federal and guess what?

No one set up a Palestine DMV in the begining which was hilarious for me when I found out: Care to read the original drafts?

[vistavision2]

I know that the Israelis are the ones who have sabatoged every single negotiation process.

You tell me why? It does not take a genious to figure that one out: Peace mandates that Israel vacate its presence in UNGA 181 Palesitne through UNSC 242 complaince.

So they have purposed "unlawful object [plunder & dispossession of Palestinan UNGA 181 National Rights] though lawful means of negotiations" which how PON defines a Criminal Enterprise.

Did I go native? Maybe! HAHAHAHAHA

[vistavision2]

psycho, International law does not expire and this context is 100% unique where it is a UN Chartered course over it then [UK administrated LON] Trusteeship State of Palestine which it partitioned. Realistically, a perfect war would be one where we could apply the Fisherman's Hook Strategy IDF is not the power house you & everyone believes it is: Weakest in its history & weaker by the minute!

Sure Palestinians must be able to accpet 100/1 ratio of causulties to win.

[vistavision2]

Psycospores: Whose policy wasis it if not Likud's?

Before Israeli invasion of Lebanon, its propagated threat [PLO] was north of the Litani and 12 years later PLO walked into UNGA 181 State of Palestine Gaza. Province.

Hamas was orignally sponsored by Israel [same time when US was sposnoring Moujahadeed in Aghanistan] to challenge the PLO leadership.

If Israel actually pursued a policy of peaceful co-existent with Palestinians as opposed to plunder/war crimes it might be different

[vistavision2]

1983 Hezbolla was only 300 men

1987 Hamas was only 300 men.

Could it be that Israels own policies create the enviornment for the exponential growth of Hezbollah & Hamas?

Or that Iran actually knows how to play the great game with proxies while Israel is a late bloomer: December 2009 bringing in PLO hold outs to solidify Fatah?

Arafat was genuine & had the poltical capital: It appears that Israel Likud is the one who never missess a chance to miss a chance to establish peace!

[psychospores]

"Could it be that Israels own policies create the enviornment for the exponential growth of Hezbollah & Hamas?" Of course.

"Iran actually knows how to play the great game ..." it is not a matter of who is better at it, but that it should not be done at all. Hamas and Hezbollah represent a grave cultural and political crisis. They should not be justified, nor seen as a solution. You seem to oppose the extremism of Zionism, but you support this extremism? Why?

[psychospores]

Where is the solution in your way of thinking? I agree that the Arabs are greatly justified in their anger, but should armed resistance fighters just keep pounding away at Israel until they finally smash it back into those 1947 borders? If that is the goal, I don't think it will ever be achieved, and pursuit of that goal is only hurting the Palestinians of today. It's time for a new plan.

[psychospores]

The West Bank is significantly smaller than the area originally designated as Palestine, but it falls into what had been marked off as Arab territory by UN 181. If Palestinians want a state, the West Bank is their best shot. But they are going to have to prove that they will peacefully coexist with Israel, because Israel will clearly neither shrink, nor disappear.

[vistavision2]

Psyco, 100% bulshit Palestinians do not have to prove anything to anyone to incorporate theri own agency of governance.

UN Chartered course of UNGA 181 which is a UN Charter Art 80 act is NON-MODIFIABLE [read it] of Palestnina National Rights by anyone including Palestinians themselves; And Palestinian Human Rights are NON-NEGOTIABLE.

Shrink?  We're not talking about placing laundry.

The issue is LOAC & UN Chartered complance commonly called International Rule of Law.

[psychospores]

You're awfully picky about my word choices. Okay, not "shrink," "withdraw." How is that?

Palestinian rights to human rights are not up for question here. I am merely pointing out the need for a compromise. Not because I think it is "justice" but because it is the best they will get.

[vistavision2]

Western governments whine about terrorism [targeting civilians] yet they sponsor poltically, militarily, & econommically the Government of Israel in its systemic targeting Palestinian civilians which are PON VI (c) Crimes Against Humanity .

Insurgencies are a human right to remove tryants, despots, & demogogue's.

If westeren governments purpose that International Rule of Law/Laws of Armed Conflict be the rod to measure all belligerents: they must apply it vis-a-vis State of Israel

[vistavision2]

The people, the government, & the regime in possession of the agency of Government are NOT one the same:

The zionist regime in possession of the of the agency of government of the State of Israel is and and has been in contravention to UNSC 242 since 1967 and zionists assassinated their own Prime Minister Rabin whom purposed to bring Israel into complaince with UN Chartered course of UNGA 273, UNSC 242 & I-973 Geneva Art 49 of removing their War Criminal settlements from State of Palestine.

[psychospores]

I am strongly against the disastrous actions of western gvts. in the Middle East and their hypocrisy in dealing with Israel, but that does not justify further wrong-doing by radical Islamist groups. These groups only multiply the violence, and an increase in polarity on one side is always matched by the other. This creates a system of perpetual escalation that provides no desirable future for any side.

[vistavision2]

Psychospores,

Tryants, Despots, & demogogues are exactly that becasue of their unreasonableness & self-idoltary who only understand violence greater than that which they themselves can muster.

War 101: The art of war is terror and the science of war is the management of violence.

There is a difference: War to committ Crimes Against Humaniyt vis-a-vis Just War to liberate from same.

Laws of Armed Conflict were codified for a reason of which Israel is in systemic contravention

[psychospores]

"War to committ Crimes Against Humaniyt vis-a-vis Just War to liberate from same."

You and I may think we no who is who in your above statement, but that is not a universally agreed upon opinion. You are justifying never-ending war.

[exposingalex]

turkey? looooool

[TheSandLine]

they have lost their ever loving fucking minds. NO NWO!

[navtel]

hillary clinton= joke

terrorism = joke

false flag ops= joke

america is proving to be a joke..

reinvestigate 911, until that happens this sad joke will continue.

[td000]

@navtel ahahha thats funny... but u know what the real joke is.... you mouther fucker!!!!!!!!

[psychospores]

@td000

9/11 Truthers = the ultimate punch-line!