Modern chemical medicine has an important role to play, especially in emergency situations, but in general I prefer safe and gentler herbal remedies proven effective over thousands of years of use throughout the world. We should resist all attempts by big business and big government to limit freedom of choice by growing our own herbs and learning to use our own judgement for a change.
I think homeopathy and other "alternative" medicines are bullshit. However, I also believe that if somebody wants to use such things, they should be free to do so. And in a free market, I could chose a health insurance policy that doesn't include these things but favors real medicine.
This is the problem with big government, they become the main aim of massive corporatist lobbies, where they have the biggest effect, in ALL of europe goddamn. Pure freaking corruption.
This is all about control. The EUSSR and their pharmaceutical allies want to own us , body , mind and soul. We need a radical shift , away from monopolistic health care provision towards pluralism. For too long we have relied on the experts , who encourage a childlike dependence in us. Instead we should re-claim our independence and dignity and look to nature ,not chemicals to enhance our wellbeing.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Yea let people buy useess shit for no good reason. We dont know if these herbs work and i can pet most of them dont, its a scam. Brussels should fight for proper healthcare.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
There's no such thing as "small herbalists". Most of these products come from from American "supplements" manufacturers, aka "big business" as most of you guys like to call it.
Or from obscure online Canadian / Mexican pharmacies.
They're making lots of money on the backs of uninformed customers. They make wild claims and they're basically snake-oil salesmen.
@TatalVost So if u had a headache &someone gave u willow bark, u would laugh in their face. Yet if someone messed around with it in a lab, produced a white pill served in a box & labelled it "aspirin" u would thank them.
& yet aspirin is far worse for the body than natural willow bark.
Only an idiot slates something they dont understand. Even the pharmaceutical giants know the benefits of nature's medicines. They use them. They lobbied the EU to wipe out the competition, not to protect us!
Hannan is right on this issue. Although I'm skeptical of his claim that this wouldn't have gotten through national parliaments. It doesn't seem to be a factor judging by other drugs that have been banned by national parliaments.
Still, a minor point. On the greater whole, spot on.
Thank you Mr Hannnan, for defending our interests. There is not only big farmaceutical interests behinf this new law, but also the objective of diminishing global population advocated by the Rockfeller faminy, Bill Gates and other powerfull people. What can we do to help you?
I am so glad you said what you did. There's more to this it isn't new. The US wants to do this as well. It's been floating around 4 some time now. It's just another $ up the companies ying yang 2 profit. With everything that's going on in the World 2day U would think they would get it already that they r smaller than they think & we out number them. We know what's up really. What r they thinking? All I can say is the jig is up.
@PROFILESophiaYates The U.S did this ALREADY while everyone was shopping, watching cable and worshiping their murdering 'war heros'!!
Anyone who isn't aware of it deserves to have to eat GM fake foods! Sorry but ignorance is really not an excuse. Wake up and show some interest in the future of the Children!
@lordlicious thans ill watch that , was looking at anews report about the Romanian witches cursing their government for imposing a tax on them. the gov took it seriously enough to wear purple on thursdays
@EbookCashStreams The answer is called Distributism (distributist capitalism) under which anti-competitive actions of the prevalent Capitalism (monopolist capitalism) we currently live.
@davidwcooney The Lisbon treety defines the EU as an unelected dictatership I like to see Nigel Farage saying it as it is Eye watering that we have allowed such severely derranged minds to wreck our planet along with everything that lives and breath's
He is talking about Codex Alimentarius, which became law in 2010 in NZ, Aus, America and Europe. It restricts the sale of vitamins unless they are weak ones made by big pharmaceutical companies.
it's all political of course, the pharmaceutical companies don't want any competition or loss of sales of their "FDA" approval and regulated medicines. They want to squash the little man, the natural herbalists, the thousands of years old Chinese herbs, etc. It's all governmental mentality to have the power, use it and control the populations.
No matter how much liberty I feel like we're losing with each passing day here in America, I can always watch a video of the EU and see this. We're so fed up with Congress we're about to tar-and-feather, but to have decisions, laws, and regulations we have to follow being passed down by bureaucrats from OTHER COUNTRIES? That's insane.
-
Oh wait, we would probably just ignore them. Productive nations like the UK and Germany should just leave the EU and do their own thing, this is ridiculous.
Quacks who promise something they cant keep should be put out of buisness. A free marked demands fair play, and misleading advertising isn't fair. The herbalists can go on producing whatever they are producing, and call it candy.
@higfny yes and so shoud quacks with a doctorate that also fuck up then. I have been healed by a herbalist taking a tea, when three doctors could not conclude what I had wrong as my hand was disfiguring away. Who is right? Who is worng? Doctors, those God-ish creatures to some with PH-D and masters degrees in medicine could not figure, because all they know about are drugs! A herbalist with some wild grass you can find on your backyard cured me in just one consultation.
Homeopathy can be deadly. If your child is very sick and you give it some homeopathic remedies the child might die. This happened in the case of Gloria Thomas Sam, who died from eczema.
Eczema is easy to treat but her parents decided to give her some homeopathic remedies for eczema.
@pjedinn babies die all the time. some babies die as a result of required vaccinations. others die from allergic reactions to food. the reality is that in a world with 6 billion people there will be some terrible tragedies. every year thousands drown in pools, some drown in buckets, some die from falling down stairs, others die in car accidents,house fires etc. what should we do? ban vaccinations? how about peanuts, swimming pools and and stairs? perhaps babes shouldn't be allowed in cars?
@pjedinn a child dying from a reaction to homeopathis eczema remedies is an accident too. how often has it happened? i bet you can maybe pull up a case or two. it's irrelevent to the point i'm trying to make. if i want the option of homeopathic treatment than who are you to stop me from doing so? it's got nothing to do with you. by all means criticise the treatments or campaign for information but neither you nor the govt has the right to limit my access to said treatments
@pjedinn so you don't think that i have a right to experiment with my own body then? if i want to buy vitamins and someone sells them to me, we should both go to jail? if i think that the best remedy for my constpation is a little senna or if i'm having trouble sleeping i should resort to the powerful hypnotic medications rather than chew on a little valerian root. is hould definitely not have the choice?
If you get some permanent illness or disfunction (blindness, broken arm heal'd very badly) due to the fact that you used some pseudoscientific remedies, the guy who sold you this stuff should pay you some compensation.
If you deny your sick child proper treatment and it dies, you should go to jail.
@pjedinn Thing is that herbal medicine is not bad at all, and the proper herbalist advises medical consuyltancy for cases that are clearly not on their sphere of treatmand, and they also advise medical opinion BEFORE any treatment taking place. There are of course ripp offs but so are there in the hospitals or clinics, and you would not want to ban hospitals every time a charlatain is found making wrong decisions, it does not work that way.
I have been healed by a herbalist when doctors failed.
@pjedinn thing is I have been cured by some very simple tea (that removed the toxines I had onmy body) when three different doctors could not even figure out exacly what it was that I had.
Patients die in hospitals every single day, this does not make me assume hospitals shoud be shut down.
@lordlicious I admit that I dont know how long this legislation reaches. 1) Medicine should be tested before it is used by the public. 2 )Research should show that the medicine is affective. Homeopathy does not fulfill the second condition, Therefor homeopathy is; Non affective, and possibly dangerous. Backed up by fraudsters, who get the profit. Undermining the pharmacy development. and so on. Thats why I consider homeopathy and "most" of the herbalists to be fraudsters. Do you agre with me
@LibertyDownUnder Ehr, the europeans are the "one world government" I dont know if you got it yet. They are the ones moving for it, and it is NATO (not exacly the US) who is on other people's countries causing havoc nowadays as the US got a bit more cautious after the beating they got in Vietnam and Somalia.
@lordlicious He's the polar opposite of a communist. It seems you want to control what adults put into their bodies. That sounds like very communism to me.
@lordlicious evidently you didn't understand a word of what mr hannan said. if you think he's a communist then you clearly don't know anything about hannan, communism, or as i suspect, both!
@58robbo Well the european state is communistic in essence, him however is not. I have corrected my opinion as I informed myself a bit better about him.
Even if you think, as I do, that such people make provably false claims, it is a matter not for politicians but for judges to determine through the court systems. Politicians are not well placed to determine the efficacy of any medication, and we can see the deleterious consequences of their involvement in health all around us.
@Anteater1234567 you're ignoring the role of the informed consumer. we live in such an overregulated society which has created apathy amongst the general populace. instead of questioning we've unwisely outsourced all our safety to the govt.
@58robbo because when safety was in the hands of the "people", they so didn't go around with pitchforks and fires killing and burning people for safety, nor has there ever been a need for a national organization that might deal with issues such as health care.
I mean seriously, if you care the socialized system of the UK compared to the capitalistic insurance system of USA, USA's HMOs sit as a laughable joke compared to the NHS. Informed consumers doesn't mean junk in USA's situation at all.
@cloudberry121 oook, I'll remember that next to the mother who brought her child who was blue in the face, with medical insurance to the local hospital, and was turned away because the insurance she had was for a different chain... yeah... hmmm drinking out of vases compared to being left to die because it's the wrong insurance for THAT hospital... hmmm...
that said, there are naturally going to still be bad hospitals, doctors or what not in any system. America still has bad hospitals, UK has bad hospital, no system is just out right better but when weight pros against cons, the NHS far exceeds HMOs by both the WHO rating and by a survey done by the white house itself, both of which say the only area the MHOs compare or beat the NHS is preventative medicine, A&E, long term illnesses, operations and other such things the NHS is better.
correction: is preventative medicine. A&E, long term illnesses, operations and other such things the NHS is better.
since I put that through, as additional to this, care in the NHS is generally better, as their is no waiting on insurance checks to go through either, which makes short term queuing in the NHS shorter then that of the HMOs.
@cloudberry121 it's not a lie, it really did happen. And it's illegal to turn somebody away, yes. However what I quoted is an example that is actually very much true and known about, in fact one case very much like this was referenced on Sicko, the mother appeared within the documentary.
But if you want other advantages of the UK system, the UK system is universal, nobody is excluded at all, the UK system is cheaper (less economically damaging) and the UK system has given a 1 year (cont)
boost in life expectancy, particularly due to life style, which the NHS helps people with, overall however conditions of generally living between UK and US are no too distinct. Medicines and drugs are supplied at affordable rates for people to buy.
Some disadvantages, the universal part, does occasionally make waiting lists longer, however it's actually been debated/argued that it might not actually be longer then waiting lists in US in general... and sometimes slightly less clean wards, woot
overall, there are bad and good hospitals in both, but the UK system is by far the superior of the two, it's essentially confirmed by surveys and the "experts" that argue against it are almost more certain then not... on the pay role of an HMO or even a lobbyist for.
@DoomsdayR3sistance for you to nonchalantly make a blanket claim the UK somehow has better standards of care and that anyone who disgarees must be a lobbyist is childish and absurd.
@smoochym my claims are done generally on research, of statistics, the research of others. WHO of course is the major source since they compare all health systems in the entire world... ya know World Health Organization.
"anyone who disgarees must be a lobbyist is childish and absurd."
Actually I said that you find the vast majority of EXPERTS who claim these things are on the pay role of an HMO, or even a lobbyist for the HMO(s). Which is vastly different to what you tried to imply.
@smoochym it's not exactly a conspiracy when you can check who most of the people are paid by and that the majority get money from HMOs, heck, in Sicko, Michael Moore gives a huge list of people arguing to stick with the HMOs.... and exactly how much they are paid by the HMOs. So no it's not conspiracy it's more public record. Personally I'd advise you to actually go see Sicko, even if you claim you already have, it's evident you either haven't or you didn't actually listen to it while watching.
@DoomsdayR3sistance life expectancy has many variables not just the quality of the healthcare system, diet plays an important role. Not that the quality of care is better in the UK, it's statistically obvious thats not true. Moreover, the vast majority of medical innovation in both techniques and equipment come from the US.
"nobody is excluded at all"
Apart from the people on waiting lists that is, or people for whom life saving drugs are deemed too expensive.
@smoochym as I have said, life style between the UK and US is similar. which encompasses things like diet, quality of health care is also a major component.
"statistically obvious thats not true." And what statistics do you refer to? I have referred to both WHO and even the White Houses on statistics that point to the UK being way way in front. Unless you are on about something else then just health care?
Also US has waiting lists too, even for those that pay, I even mentioned this.
"Apart from the people on waiting lists that is, or people for whom life saving drugs are deemed too expensive."
The biggest piece of BS you have said so far, the UK does not reject based on cost, however MHOs must certainly do on the other hand. If the cost of letting somebody die is less then the potential risk of being sued, let them die. The UK has a limit of health care £59,000 last time I checked, however this doesn't mean if you need more then that you don't get none, you get £59,000.
The man known to many as ‘Mr Manchester’ has declared his ‘love for the NHS’ while being treated for cancer. Speaking on on Valentine's Day, Anthony Wilson revealed that he's about to receive chemotherapy after having a kidney removed."
@DoomsdayR3sistance the WHO has't ranked healthcare for a decade, and even when it did it using variables such as life expectancy or availability, not directly related to the quality of care. A better comparison would be recovery rates from serious ilness, number of specialists per 100,000 of the population etc, and it doesn't paint a good picture for the NHS.
Some have paid tens of thousands into mandatory insurance and still be refused life saving drugs which costs a one or two thousand.
@smoochym "the WHO has't ranked healthcare for a decade" and the UK Health System has been around since the 1960s and the US since the 1980s. While Health Care does change over time, the fundamental issues found a decade ago are still very much around today.
@DoomsdayR3sistance of course, a ten year old report based on variables which have little to do with standard of care is a perfect guide for comparing healthcare in 2010. Save yourself the embarssment and stop posting such painfully superifical opnions.
I don't doubt that lobbying is primarily responsible for this, however with that said, I would say that several types of herbal medicines are little more then snake oil and snake oil salesmanship is something that should be illegal.
To the same effect however I also believe that in any truly democratic state, business can not have more say then the common person and lobbying more then anything only serves the corporations in the end, it is a system that is fundamentally flawed and out-dated.
snake oil is a highly subjective term. what works fro me, may not work for you. if a particular remedy works for me, who are you to come along and ban it? have i no right to opt out of the system? have i no right to make my own choices? sarah palin is a moron but she was spot on when she labelled the nhs, orwellian. the argument against my right to choose is that if i make poor choices the govt will have to pick up the tab. i follows that the govt will therefore make my choices for me
@58robbo Sarah Palin would be a bad example of any figure in terms of health care after saying she wouldn't want her son in a socialized system that would not care for her son, when the current they have wouldn't if not for her fame/position while a social one would. That said, a sugar cube isn't going to cure cancer, snake oil is so called because there is clearly no effect of the oil itself, there is what is called a Placebo Effect which is different but doesn't stop snake oil being snake oil.
@DoomsdayR3sistance if someone tells me that a sugar cube will cure my cancer and i believe it, that is my business. it has nothing to do with you. i don't endorse any system which limits my options a) because how i choose to medicate myself is no one else's business abd b) because they always throw the baby out with the bath water ie in curbing some bad behaviour they end up hampering exponentially more good behaviour
@58robbo right, but if somebody plays on somebodies desperation to sell them a sugar cube they tell them will cure cancer what clearly won't... that is what we call a Scam. Scams are immoral, is it your business if someone steals from you? yes, would you not want the police to get involved because it's your business? stealing is immoral. The whole point of law is to protect people, snake oil is a scam, plain and simple, allowing people to fraudulently advertise things that don't work is wrong.
@DoomsdayR3sistance i could make the same argument about many regulated medicines. there are no guarantees in life. we certainly don't need further legislation. in the case where something is obviously 'snake oil' it won't take long for the consumer to catch on. okay so we save a few lives in the interim, but it's hardly worth the policing apperatus needed to monitor it. then there are the grey areas where you might actually ban helpful alternatives
@58robbo there is a difference here, see Medicines, at least in the UK for example... generally have to be... what's that word... tested.... scientifically, alternative medicines are not.
I think you give the consumer too much credit... seriously, individuals might be intelligent but groups and crowds are not. After all, let's remember most of Humanity use to believe the world was flat... 1,000 years after the Greeks had already proven it was a round ovoid like shape.
@DoomsdayR3sistance ok, but every year thousands of people succumb to complications arising from the use of these 'tested medicines'. many of those deaths arise from the use of vaccinations and general anaesthesia. what should we do, ban vaccinations and anaesthetics?
perhaps, but i think you give the consumer too little credit. to be fair his senses have been somewhat dulled by the tall promises of the state to keep him safe
@58robbo The number of deaths caused by vaccine complications compared to the number of deaths cause by fools not getting actual medicine in favor of essentially, or most of the time actually, just water or lactose pills is not even close. Vaccines have an actual, provable effect, and are one of the major factors in the huge increase in lifespan over the past 100ish years. Homeopathy is just a money-sink for the gullible, with no basis in fact.
@V2Gundam ok, so how many deaths were caused by people favouring alternative medicine? where are the numbers? you like to write about p'provable effects' and 'facts', but where are the bodies. i'll take a guessing and say that you're just guessing. imo, very few people look to alternative medicine for serious illness and even then it's normally as a last result ie all else has failed. that's beside the point though. if i CHOOSE alternative medicine what business is it of yours or the govts?
@58robbo and that's the problem, it's not playing on what's possible or what's true, it's selling people false hopes, it's take advantage of what is a desperate time in people's lives. That is where such things are sickening, that selling Herbal medicines that won't do junk.... that is wrong, it's an out and out scam, and if it's not a scam, prove they actually work.... to date I have never heard of any herbal cure for Cancer, AIDS, stroke or such illnesses/diseasess that actually helped.
and if you can't see how that's exploitation of desperate people... well then I don't think you are ever going to understand those of us that do care about the scams and tricks that get played on people.
As Herbal medicine goes, nobody knows if their are side-effects or even fatalities from it, because it's not recorded who did what, it's not like this thing called... the NHS that documents what happens to their patients and truly checks the medicine is... beneficial.
@58robbo Let me be clear. I believe that the government should have the same level of control over alternative medicine as it has over prescription drugs, or other controlled substances(mj, cocaine, etc.), none(except for antibiotics).
That being said, I was simply responding to the anti-vaccine rhetoric that is commonly associated with the alternative medicine movement. Vaccines are easily one of the top 5 inventions of the past two centuries, and they clearly merit an impassioned defense.
@V2Gundam let me also be clear. my kids have had all their shots. having said that, my cousins niece died from complications surrounding one of the vaccines. i don't agree with govt control over medicine. i think they've done far more harm than good. the greatets harm they've done is to lull the general public into a false sense of security. this is the same with all govt regs whether they be medical, financial, airport security, etc. the role of govt is not to protect me from myself!
@58robbo I think you missed the most critical part of my sentence, that I believe that the government should have no, I repeat, no ability to place restrictions on medications(outside of antibiotics, which are a very special case with a somewhat longer explanation than I can fit here), herbal remedies, or any form of narcotics, cocaine, marijuana, LSD, etc.
@58robbo seems I missed this. Thousands of people do indeed succumb to complications, and that's why medicine is improving to find out when complications might occur or to drugs that have less complications. Most complications are due to serious drugs for serious conditions, some treatments like Chemotherapy are expected to have a high complication rate just due to what it is, complications with minor drugs are less common but still do occur. (cont)
that said medicines are used because they are the most effective with the least possible complications, given how people can be intolerant to various things (nuts for example) it's not going to be easy when you consider medicines tend to be more powerful chemicals. As for Vaccinations, the number of complications arising from is highly overplayed, it's actually extremely low (and general minor) and rarely if ever fatal, nor do they cause disabilities or Autism, that is essentially fabrication.
@DoomsdayR3sistance take cannibis as an example. is it snake oil? many say it is. many also use it as an alternative to exhorbitant medication with harmful side effects. who should be the judge? the user or the state? i prefer to side with the user and i'm certain the police and prison resources would be better spent catching paedophiles, thieves and murderers
@58robbo medical testing of Cannabis has positive results for it helping. Those that say it's snake oil do so falsely in the face of the scientific evidence that does exist. The problem with alternative (including herbal) medicines, is that they do not get tested, the effects of a lot of these herbs are untested... some have been of course, some have some effects some don't... those that don't are snake oil. I am not using opinion to judge what is and isn't snake oil, rather Scientific testing.
also it should be noted that modern medicine would not miss out on tricks with herbs, in fact some medicines have had or do have a herbal base to them, that is how modern medicine works (at least in the UK)... the stuff that works stays, the stuff that doesn't is thrown away... with Herbal Medicine it doesn't matter if it works or not if it sells and there is a business in it, and that is a snake oil model for a lot of these types of businesses, they generally don't want their stock to be tested
which is questionable. Sure I am guessing some will, there is no requirement all are the same, some I am sure positively believe it works while others are much less caring and only in it for the money... now what was snake oil anyway? how does snake oil vary from herbal medicines? People use to believe that worked... people use to believe it was always snake oil, neither of those were true and that's why scientific testing needs to be done to prove what does and does not work.
@DoomsdayR3sistance A society is only as good as the sum of its parts (individuals). Government cannot perfect the individual; only individuals, each one, improving his/her - self can perfect a society. Anything else is dictatorship. Finally, a lot of these herbs are things that have been used for millennia by people and which are used ubiquitously in varying societies with no negative side effects (like Stevia in Japan).
@7Highlander Government can however set the laws, and that is what matters. Protecting people from scams is something we expect of the police, while enforcing the law, unfortunately scam artists have got cleaver to finding loopholes, be it herbal medicine, chiropractic (which can be potentially lethal with many other complications), alternative medicines or whatever, a lot of the time it's just the same old snake oil salesmanship that is being employed, not realistic provable tested effects.
@DoomsdayR3sistance so in your opinion only tested medicines should be available for use? let's assume for argument sake, that antibiotics have just recently been discovered. let's also assume that in testing some of the subjects react negatively to treatment. let's also assume that you have a serious staph infection in your legs, do you wait the 20 years for bureacratic approval or should you have the choice?
@58robbo ok, let's look at ecstasy, it's just been discovered and anecdotal evidences shows that people who take it show an experience similar to that of a "love drug" and you are in a relationship that is on the rocks... do you want to take ecstasy? Because that is what happened, the side effects weren't known because it wasn't tested... see how this works both ways? Fact is what I just said, isn't a story, that is what actually happened with it!
@DoomsdayR3sistance not sure what point you're trying to make? are you saying that a snake oil salesman would market ecstacy to couples going through difficulty? i'd have no problem with that. let me get this straight, if the govt didn't attempt to stop people taking ecstacy, you're saying that you'd be taking it to help out with your relationship problems? how long do you think it would take before people realised it wasn't working?
@58robbo no, I was setting the point that taking drugs that might do something could have very lethal consequences because they are untested. I would never take drugs to deal with my problem, however when people were "advised" to take them and by the occasional "professional", people were put into comas or even died from it. A drug could be a cure... it could also just kill you much much much quicker. That's why testing is important, to find out what it DOES do.
@DoomsdayR3sistance This idea that herbs are simply placebos is nonsense. There are herbs that can kill, that can paralyze (curari), that can cause elation (marijuana), help prostate problems (saw palmetto), lower blood pressure (dong quai), increase testosterone (Ginseng). Herbs can be dangerous or helpful or both if applied wrong. But, it is not any of the governments business what I choose for myself.
@7Highlander I have not said all at any point, in fact I specifically said several... note the following " would say that several types of herbal medicines". What you have created is called a straw man you have brought up an argument I did not make and argued against that, not the argument I actually made.
@7Highlander It's true; there are many scams out there. Buyer Beware. Should the government ban infomercials? How many US people die from Aspirin - 500/year. How many livers are damaged by overusing Tylenol? How many people die from Alcohol? From bad eating habits? Shall gov't regulate and control the way you eat, drink.. A person is born, they live (hopefully very long), they die. People are people. They live their lives and make choices. They are not children to be controlled.
@7Highlander if I remember correctly in the UK 1/3rd of deaths are alcohol related and I am teetotal for the record, in fact I am rather against Alcohol and as recently appeared on BBC news, based on the impact of Alcohol if it were made illegal as a Drug, it would be a Class A, without a doubt with tobacco being a class B. However nobody claims that Aspirin overdose won't kill you, nor do pubs sell alcohol under the claim that it doesn't harm your body/liver. (cont)
but if you carry on with alcohol, it's effects are not just on the taker, drunk drivers will kill people, alcoholic people beat their partners (while usually this is men, it should not be ignore that some women do this too), a lot of people start fights when drunk, others vandalize things, from that perspective I do not believe alcohol should be legal, nor smoking which also effects others. While I believe for medical purposes Cannabis should be legal because that does not effect others.
There are so many rules and regulations in the Eu that it almost feels like anything and everything is not allowed. The EU is defintely not a place where one would want to open a small business, there are just too many rules and regulations. The EU fat cats are regulating the EU states into irrelavance.
@cladok again, sarah palin is a moron but she was spot on when she labelled the nhs orwellian. i would prefer to live and die by my own decisions. this however is illegal because if i make bad decisions, everyone picks up the tab. therefore everyone will make my decisions for me
I think I am in love with this guy
Moissenjeff 5 months ago
@Moissenjeff me too man, me too.
arivas713 3 months ago
Modern chemical medicine has an important role to play, especially in emergency situations, but in general I prefer safe and gentler herbal remedies proven effective over thousands of years of use throughout the world. We should resist all attempts by big business and big government to limit freedom of choice by growing our own herbs and learning to use our own judgement for a change.
TODMORLANCS 6 months ago 5
You know what they call alternative medicine that works?
MEDICINE.
mutedmakequiet 7 months ago
101% Fuck EU
SuperAcab666 8 months ago 6
I think homeopathy and other "alternative" medicines are bullshit. However, I also believe that if somebody wants to use such things, they should be free to do so. And in a free market, I could chose a health insurance policy that doesn't include these things but favors real medicine.
NewFormofSilence 8 months ago
SMASH THE EUROPEAN UNION!
capricious71 9 months ago 5
So - freaking - true.
This is the problem with big government, they become the main aim of massive corporatist lobbies, where they have the biggest effect, in ALL of europe goddamn. Pure freaking corruption.
SinisterSkip 10 months ago 16
This is all about control. The EUSSR and their pharmaceutical allies want to own us , body , mind and soul. We need a radical shift , away from monopolistic health care provision towards pluralism. For too long we have relied on the experts , who encourage a childlike dependence in us. Instead we should re-claim our independence and dignity and look to nature ,not chemicals to enhance our wellbeing.
TODMORLANCS 1 year ago 88
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yea let people buy useess shit for no good reason. We dont know if these herbs work and i can pet most of them dont, its a scam. Brussels should fight for proper healthcare.
Uhmu45 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There's no such thing as "small herbalists". Most of these products come from from American "supplements" manufacturers, aka "big business" as most of you guys like to call it.
Or from obscure online Canadian / Mexican pharmacies.
They're making lots of money on the backs of uninformed customers. They make wild claims and they're basically snake-oil salesmen.
TatalVost 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"Harmless products" = scams.
TatalVost 1 year ago
I found this video in Pat Condell's Favourite List.
neutralbalance 1 year ago
Comment removed
TatalVost 1 year ago
Eloquently and wisely spoken, just like King Solomon. Well done! I'm proud of you. :o)
SpiritDharma 1 year ago
big buisness and big government back in charge of europe, mussolini would be proud
scottishchap2008 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@scottishchap2008 So you're herbalist, giving people plants you picked from the side of the road as medicine, in exchange for lots of cash?
If Big Business wanted, they could do the same thing. Boiron is doing pretty well with their homeopathic bullshit.
TatalVost 1 year ago
Comment removed
ionheadrat 1 year ago
@TatalVost So if u had a headache &someone gave u willow bark, u would laugh in their face. Yet if someone messed around with it in a lab, produced a white pill served in a box & labelled it "aspirin" u would thank them.
& yet aspirin is far worse for the body than natural willow bark.
Only an idiot slates something they dont understand. Even the pharmaceutical giants know the benefits of nature's medicines. They use them. They lobbied the EU to wipe out the competition, not to protect us!
ionheadrat 1 year ago 125
Hannan is right on this issue. Although I'm skeptical of his claim that this wouldn't have gotten through national parliaments. It doesn't seem to be a factor judging by other drugs that have been banned by national parliaments.
Still, a minor point. On the greater whole, spot on.
BloggerMusicMan 1 year ago
Yet one more reason for black markets.
TilveranNavarre 1 year ago
Thank you Mr Hannnan, for defending our interests. There is not only big farmaceutical interests behinf this new law, but also the objective of diminishing global population advocated by the Rockfeller faminy, Bill Gates and other powerfull people. What can we do to help you?
Cecilitsa 1 year ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@Cecilitsa Conspiracy freaks all the way. I love you guys, you make your side lose the argument just by opening your mouth (or in this case, typing).
TatalVost 1 year ago
Dan Hannan, you are a good man indeed. Thank you for your statements in this clip.
My dear friend and editor ran this in their national magazine last month after a discussion with me in July!
If there is anything at all that I can do to assist and raise further awareness please do not hesitate to contact me via Private message.
celebbooty 1 year ago 4
Google : Codex Alimentarius
Google : Agenda 21
FromDimmuLand 1 year ago
Comment removed
TatalVost 1 year ago
I am so glad you said what you did. There's more to this it isn't new. The US wants to do this as well. It's been floating around 4 some time now. It's just another $ up the companies ying yang 2 profit. With everything that's going on in the World 2day U would think they would get it already that they r smaller than they think & we out number them. We know what's up really. What r they thinking? All I can say is the jig is up.
PROFILESophiaYates 1 year ago 3
@PROFILESophiaYates The U.S did this ALREADY while everyone was shopping, watching cable and worshiping their murdering 'war heros'!!
Anyone who isn't aware of it deserves to have to eat GM fake foods! Sorry but ignorance is really not an excuse. Wake up and show some interest in the future of the Children!
celebbooty 1 year ago
Statism is killing free market!
lordlicious 1 year ago 105
@lordlicious your words are perfecly true and serious, See dark secrets of bohemian grove
ahamatmabrahman 1 year ago
@ahamatmabrahman I like the eighties horror movie theme, See "Burning Man festival - an overview" on youtube using the same soundtrack and voilla!
Statism is not capitalistic, like Bohemians seem to be.
There are thousands of groups similar to the bohemians, thank free masonry for this sort of events.
lordlicious 1 year ago
@lordlicious thans ill watch that , was looking at anews report about the Romanian witches cursing their government for imposing a tax on them. the gov took it seriously enough to wear purple on thursdays
ahamatmabrahman 1 year ago
see dr rima laibow codex alaimentarius URGENT
ahamatmabrahman 1 year ago
@EbookCashStreams The answer is called Distributism (distributist capitalism) under which anti-competitive actions of the prevalent Capitalism (monopolist capitalism) we currently live.
davidwcooney 1 year ago
@davidwcooney My friend, statism is the consequence of communist ideology, not capitalistic.
lordlicious 1 year ago 74
@davidwcooney The Lisbon treety defines the EU as an unelected dictatership I like to see Nigel Farage saying it as it is Eye watering that we have allowed such severely derranged minds to wreck our planet along with everything that lives and breath's
ahamatmabrahman 1 year ago
AWESOME!
pinegrove33 1 year ago
i missed what he said just lmao when he managed to come up with another useful proverb
jdhf983y4uhu 1 year ago
Excellent!
tonebari 1 year ago
Shut these herbalist quacks down and embrace real medicine.
123PWNT 1 year ago
@123PWNT That's right and allow only approved quack medicine!
grumpone 1 year ago
"Sage" advice! ;)
JoeyFudd 1 year ago
What does the EU have against Herberts? Suggested videos for this one are hilarious.
ArgentArdor 1 year ago
BIG PHARMA HATES COMPETITION!
EbookCashStreams 1 year ago
@EbookCashStreams Trust EVERYONE hates competition, the only difference is the big ones can afford to buy politicians to criminalise it.
grumpone 1 year ago
@grumpone Your right! So how do we stop this CORRUPTION?
EbookCashStreams 1 year ago
He is talking about Codex Alimentarius, which became law in 2010 in NZ, Aus, America and Europe. It restricts the sale of vitamins unless they are weak ones made by big pharmaceutical companies.
aghoranathi 1 year ago
I have nearly an identical tie.
wpaxton 1 year ago
He's the Ying to David camerons Yang.
express375 1 year ago
Nanny: I have your best interests at heart! It's important I excercise full control over you.
Everyman: Piss off, you nosy sow.
cloudberry121 1 year ago
one day, global corporations will try to pass laws for selling us air. rotten lying thieves!
ahioud 1 year ago
Outlawing the herbalists so that govt eugenic programs can work.
rayme4raw 1 year ago
Talk about a lone soldier speaking up for the people of UK. Nigel Farage is also working for the people of the UK.
Desnoxvu 1 year ago
I wonder if Hannan's colleagues love him as much as his constituents do. My guess is no.
Aeschylus 1 year ago
it's all political of course, the pharmaceutical companies don't want any competition or loss of sales of their "FDA" approval and regulated medicines. They want to squash the little man, the natural herbalists, the thousands of years old Chinese herbs, etc. It's all governmental mentality to have the power, use it and control the populations.
barbarabrady1954 1 year ago
No matter how much liberty I feel like we're losing with each passing day here in America, I can always watch a video of the EU and see this. We're so fed up with Congress we're about to tar-and-feather, but to have decisions, laws, and regulations we have to follow being passed down by bureaucrats from OTHER COUNTRIES? That's insane.
-
Oh wait, we would probably just ignore them. Productive nations like the UK and Germany should just leave the EU and do their own thing, this is ridiculous.
SpecialFester 1 year ago
Comment removed
SpecialFester 1 year ago
EU is an Oligarchy.
Big Business and Big Government trying to Control the 'small people'.
Same thing that Conservatives are Fighting in the USA.
3martijns 1 year ago
finally - Hannan is wrong about something.
Quacks who promise something they cant keep should be put out of buisness. A free marked demands fair play, and misleading advertising isn't fair. The herbalists can go on producing whatever they are producing, and call it candy.
higfny 1 year ago
@higfny yes and so shoud quacks with a doctorate that also fuck up then. I have been healed by a herbalist taking a tea, when three doctors could not conclude what I had wrong as my hand was disfiguring away. Who is right? Who is worng? Doctors, those God-ish creatures to some with PH-D and masters degrees in medicine could not figure, because all they know about are drugs! A herbalist with some wild grass you can find on your backyard cured me in just one consultation.
lordlicious 1 year ago
NWO MADNESS!
Hendo1974 1 year ago
Homeopathy can be deadly. If your child is very sick and you give it some homeopathic remedies the child might die. This happened in the case of Gloria Thomas Sam, who died from eczema.
Eczema is easy to treat but her parents decided to give her some homeopathic remedies for eczema.
This is the danger.
pjedinn 1 year ago
@pjedinn babies die all the time. some babies die as a result of required vaccinations. others die from allergic reactions to food. the reality is that in a world with 6 billion people there will be some terrible tragedies. every year thousands drown in pools, some drown in buckets, some die from falling down stairs, others die in car accidents,house fires etc. what should we do? ban vaccinations? how about peanuts, swimming pools and and stairs? perhaps babes shouldn't be allowed in cars?
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo Homeopathic remedies have no function (exept for placebo effect). Vaccinations a very inportand (we eliminated smallpox f.expl.).
The followning things you mentioned are accidents.
Eczema is not an accident. It is a decease, like cancer and smallpox.
Drowning happens quickly.
Dying from deceases takes time and you can prevent death.
Homeopathic "doctors" are fraudsters, just like Peter Popoff (who was selling the miracle) is a fraudster.
Recommended: watch?v=s8XYUixuw8g
pjedinn 1 year ago
@pjedinn a child dying from a reaction to homeopathis eczema remedies is an accident too. how often has it happened? i bet you can maybe pull up a case or two. it's irrelevent to the point i'm trying to make. if i want the option of homeopathic treatment than who are you to stop me from doing so? it's got nothing to do with you. by all means criticise the treatments or campaign for information but neither you nor the govt has the right to limit my access to said treatments
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo Glorias parents were sent to jail.
I believe that frauds should be illegal.
pjedinn 1 year ago
@pjedinn so you don't think that i have a right to experiment with my own body then? if i want to buy vitamins and someone sells them to me, we should both go to jail? if i think that the best remedy for my constpation is a little senna or if i'm having trouble sleeping i should resort to the powerful hypnotic medications rather than chew on a little valerian root. is hould definitely not have the choice?
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo No you should not go to jail.
If you get some permanent illness or disfunction (blindness, broken arm heal'd very badly) due to the fact that you used some pseudoscientific remedies, the guy who sold you this stuff should pay you some compensation.
If you deny your sick child proper treatment and it dies, you should go to jail.
pjedinn 1 year ago
@pjedinn Thing is that herbal medicine is not bad at all, and the proper herbalist advises medical consuyltancy for cases that are clearly not on their sphere of treatmand, and they also advise medical opinion BEFORE any treatment taking place. There are of course ripp offs but so are there in the hospitals or clinics, and you would not want to ban hospitals every time a charlatain is found making wrong decisions, it does not work that way.
I have been healed by a herbalist when doctors failed.
lordlicious 1 year ago
@pjedinn if herbalists shoud go to jail for wrong diagnosis, so shoud doctors when their patients die as well then.
lordlicious 1 year ago
@lordlicious Sometimes, yes.
pjedinn 1 year ago
@pjedinn thing is I have been cured by some very simple tea (that removed the toxines I had onmy body) when three different doctors could not even figure out exacly what it was that I had.
Patients die in hospitals every single day, this does not make me assume hospitals shoud be shut down.
lordlicious 1 year ago
pjedinn 1 year ago
@pjedinn If you admit that you do not know anything about it, how can you demand forbidding it? Because big business payed people to say so?
My friend, I am telling you that I know for sure that homeopathy works as I am living proof of that.
I can boldly say that there are as many fraudsters handling herbs as there are fraudsters holding a doctor degree.
So with evidence on my side I must disagree with you.
lordlicious 1 year ago
Here here. Politics the world over has become a racket open to the big corporations. AKA, "He who has the gold makes the rules."
shezza1776 1 year ago
Where is the left?
...
jcvjcvjcvjcv 1 year ago
fuck government
delatroy 1 year ago
Przynajmniej Kurski słucha :) Podoba mi się to
umm86 1 year ago
Comment removed
lordlicious 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lordlicious What is the name of that poster? I would like to know the name of that person who seems to be a tool of the big government statists.
ErikMartin81 1 year ago
You Europeans are stuffed.
Apart from 3 or 4 poms, you've got no one to protect you from this 'one world' Government creeping in.
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago 9
@LibertyDownUnder Ehr, the europeans are the "one world government" I dont know if you got it yet. They are the ones moving for it, and it is NATO (not exacly the US) who is on other people's countries causing havoc nowadays as the US got a bit more cautious after the beating they got in Vietnam and Somalia.
lordlicious 1 year ago
@LibertyDownUnder Yeah, well, America is right behind them. Or in front, who knows.
Gasolinealley00 1 year ago
@Gasolinealley00, true, America is in the toilet but the movement for limited Government is much stronger there.
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago
@Gasolinealley00 Well maybe if the Europeans are lucky the thing will just destroy itself.
Gasolinealley00 1 year ago
You all had better wake up and ABOLISH THE EU.
WulfBand 1 year ago
why are we (the UK) in the eu : ( !!
NoFukinNamesLeft 1 year ago
marujana was banned for similar reasons.
93msinclair 1 year ago
Ban chemicals? Will that make water illegal? How about air? Am I still aloud to breathe?
Everything is a chemical. You'd have to go to empty space to find somewhere which doesn't contain any.
BlackRaptor31 1 year ago
@BlackRaptor31 talking about drugs here dummy. The drugs that big corporations want you hooked on so they can profit.
lordlicious 1 year ago
Comment removed
lordlicious 1 year ago
@lordlicious He's the polar opposite of a communist. It seems you want to control what adults put into their bodies. That sounds like very communism to me.
Finnbar01 1 year ago
Comment removed
lordlicious 1 year ago
@lordlicious if you watch the clip again and listen carefully, he is opposed to the law banning herbalists, moron!!!!
58robbo 1 year ago
@lordlicious evidently you didn't understand a word of what mr hannan said. if you think he's a communist then you clearly don't know anything about hannan, communism, or as i suspect, both!
58robbo 1 year ago
Comment removed
lordlicious 1 year ago
@58robbo Well the european state is communistic in essence, him however is not. I have corrected my opinion as I informed myself a bit better about him.
lordlicious 1 year ago
Get it over with: ban all chemicals now!
elbuggo 1 year ago
… then they came for the toilet paper and i did not speak out…
elbuggo 1 year ago 4
Even if you think, as I do, that such people make provably false claims, it is a matter not for politicians but for judges to determine through the court systems. Politicians are not well placed to determine the efficacy of any medication, and we can see the deleterious consequences of their involvement in health all around us.
Anteater1234567 1 year ago
@Anteater1234567 you're ignoring the role of the informed consumer. we live in such an overregulated society which has created apathy amongst the general populace. instead of questioning we've unwisely outsourced all our safety to the govt.
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo because when safety was in the hands of the "people", they so didn't go around with pitchforks and fires killing and burning people for safety, nor has there ever been a need for a national organization that might deal with issues such as health care.
I mean seriously, if you care the socialized system of the UK compared to the capitalistic insurance system of USA, USA's HMOs sit as a laughable joke compared to the NHS. Informed consumers doesn't mean junk in USA's situation at all.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance
I like the part where patients are forced to drink water out of their flower vases in NHS hospitals. Keep up the good work!
cloudberry121 1 year ago
@cloudberry121 oook, I'll remember that next to the mother who brought her child who was blue in the face, with medical insurance to the local hospital, and was turned away because the insurance she had was for a different chain... yeah... hmmm drinking out of vases compared to being left to die because it's the wrong insurance for THAT hospital... hmmm...
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
that said, there are naturally going to still be bad hospitals, doctors or what not in any system. America still has bad hospitals, UK has bad hospital, no system is just out right better but when weight pros against cons, the NHS far exceeds HMOs by both the WHO rating and by a survey done by the white house itself, both of which say the only area the MHOs compare or beat the NHS is preventative medicine, A&E, long term illnesses, operations and other such things the NHS is better.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
correction: is preventative medicine. A&E, long term illnesses, operations and other such things the NHS is better.
since I put that through, as additional to this, care in the NHS is generally better, as their is no waiting on insurance checks to go through either, which makes short term queuing in the NHS shorter then that of the HMOs.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance
Oooook, I know that's a lie because in the USA it's illegal to turn away a person who will die without medical treatment.
Practice boosting up yourself without the need to push others down.
cloudberry121 1 year ago
@cloudberry121 it's not a lie, it really did happen. And it's illegal to turn somebody away, yes. However what I quoted is an example that is actually very much true and known about, in fact one case very much like this was referenced on Sicko, the mother appeared within the documentary.
But if you want other advantages of the UK system, the UK system is universal, nobody is excluded at all, the UK system is cheaper (less economically damaging) and the UK system has given a 1 year (cont)
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
boost in life expectancy, particularly due to life style, which the NHS helps people with, overall however conditions of generally living between UK and US are no too distinct. Medicines and drugs are supplied at affordable rates for people to buy.
Some disadvantages, the universal part, does occasionally make waiting lists longer, however it's actually been debated/argued that it might not actually be longer then waiting lists in US in general... and sometimes slightly less clean wards, woot
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
overall, there are bad and good hospitals in both, but the UK system is by far the superior of the two, it's essentially confirmed by surveys and the "experts" that argue against it are almost more certain then not... on the pay role of an HMO or even a lobbyist for.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance for you to nonchalantly make a blanket claim the UK somehow has better standards of care and that anyone who disgarees must be a lobbyist is childish and absurd.
smoochym 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@smoochym my claims are done generally on research, of statistics, the research of others. WHO of course is the major source since they compare all health systems in the entire world... ya know World Health Organization.
"anyone who disgarees must be a lobbyist is childish and absurd."
Actually I said that you find the vast majority of EXPERTS who claim these things are on the pay role of an HMO, or even a lobbyist for the HMO(s). Which is vastly different to what you tried to imply.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance talking about conspiracies and experts in capital letters doesn't really lend your argument much weight.
smoochym 1 year ago
@smoochym it's not exactly a conspiracy when you can check who most of the people are paid by and that the majority get money from HMOs, heck, in Sicko, Michael Moore gives a huge list of people arguing to stick with the HMOs.... and exactly how much they are paid by the HMOs. So no it's not conspiracy it's more public record. Personally I'd advise you to actually go see Sicko, even if you claim you already have, it's evident you either haven't or you didn't actually listen to it while watching.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance life expectancy has many variables not just the quality of the healthcare system, diet plays an important role. Not that the quality of care is better in the UK, it's statistically obvious thats not true. Moreover, the vast majority of medical innovation in both techniques and equipment come from the US.
"nobody is excluded at all"
Apart from the people on waiting lists that is, or people for whom life saving drugs are deemed too expensive.
smoochym 1 year ago
@smoochym as I have said, life style between the UK and US is similar. which encompasses things like diet, quality of health care is also a major component.
"statistically obvious thats not true." And what statistics do you refer to? I have referred to both WHO and even the White Houses on statistics that point to the UK being way way in front. Unless you are on about something else then just health care?
Also US has waiting lists too, even for those that pay, I even mentioned this.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
"Apart from the people on waiting lists that is, or people for whom life saving drugs are deemed too expensive."
The biggest piece of BS you have said so far, the UK does not reject based on cost, however MHOs must certainly do on the other hand. If the cost of letting somebody die is less then the potential risk of being sued, let them die. The UK has a limit of health care £59,000 last time I checked, however this doesn't mean if you need more then that you don't get none, you get £59,000.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance
BBC
"Friends of Manchester broadcaster Anthony Wilson are helping pay for his £3,500-a-month kidney cancer treatment after the NHS refused to fund it. "
smoochym 1 year ago
@smoochym
BBC
"Wilson: my NHS love letter
The man known to many as ‘Mr Manchester’ has declared his ‘love for the NHS’ while being treated for cancer. Speaking on on Valentine's Day, Anthony Wilson revealed that he's about to receive chemotherapy after having a kidney removed."
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance the WHO has't ranked healthcare for a decade, and even when it did it using variables such as life expectancy or availability, not directly related to the quality of care. A better comparison would be recovery rates from serious ilness, number of specialists per 100,000 of the population etc, and it doesn't paint a good picture for the NHS.
Some have paid tens of thousands into mandatory insurance and still be refused life saving drugs which costs a one or two thousand.
smoochym 1 year ago
@smoochym "the WHO has't ranked healthcare for a decade" and the UK Health System has been around since the 1960s and the US since the 1980s. While Health Care does change over time, the fundamental issues found a decade ago are still very much around today.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance of course, a ten year old report based on variables which have little to do with standard of care is a perfect guide for comparing healthcare in 2010. Save yourself the embarssment and stop posting such painfully superifical opnions.
smoochym 1 year ago
I don't doubt that lobbying is primarily responsible for this, however with that said, I would say that several types of herbal medicines are little more then snake oil and snake oil salesmanship is something that should be illegal.
To the same effect however I also believe that in any truly democratic state, business can not have more say then the common person and lobbying more then anything only serves the corporations in the end, it is a system that is fundamentally flawed and out-dated.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago 2
@DoomsdayR3sistance right on!
xxinfinity00 1 year ago
snake oil is a highly subjective term. what works fro me, may not work for you. if a particular remedy works for me, who are you to come along and ban it? have i no right to opt out of the system? have i no right to make my own choices? sarah palin is a moron but she was spot on when she labelled the nhs, orwellian. the argument against my right to choose is that if i make poor choices the govt will have to pick up the tab. i follows that the govt will therefore make my choices for me
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo Sarah Palin would be a bad example of any figure in terms of health care after saying she wouldn't want her son in a socialized system that would not care for her son, when the current they have wouldn't if not for her fame/position while a social one would. That said, a sugar cube isn't going to cure cancer, snake oil is so called because there is clearly no effect of the oil itself, there is what is called a Placebo Effect which is different but doesn't stop snake oil being snake oil.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance if someone tells me that a sugar cube will cure my cancer and i believe it, that is my business. it has nothing to do with you. i don't endorse any system which limits my options a) because how i choose to medicate myself is no one else's business abd b) because they always throw the baby out with the bath water ie in curbing some bad behaviour they end up hampering exponentially more good behaviour
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo right, but if somebody plays on somebodies desperation to sell them a sugar cube they tell them will cure cancer what clearly won't... that is what we call a Scam. Scams are immoral, is it your business if someone steals from you? yes, would you not want the police to get involved because it's your business? stealing is immoral. The whole point of law is to protect people, snake oil is a scam, plain and simple, allowing people to fraudulently advertise things that don't work is wrong.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance i could make the same argument about many regulated medicines. there are no guarantees in life. we certainly don't need further legislation. in the case where something is obviously 'snake oil' it won't take long for the consumer to catch on. okay so we save a few lives in the interim, but it's hardly worth the policing apperatus needed to monitor it. then there are the grey areas where you might actually ban helpful alternatives
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo there is a difference here, see Medicines, at least in the UK for example... generally have to be... what's that word... tested.... scientifically, alternative medicines are not.
I think you give the consumer too much credit... seriously, individuals might be intelligent but groups and crowds are not. After all, let's remember most of Humanity use to believe the world was flat... 1,000 years after the Greeks had already proven it was a round ovoid like shape.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance ok, but every year thousands of people succumb to complications arising from the use of these 'tested medicines'. many of those deaths arise from the use of vaccinations and general anaesthesia. what should we do, ban vaccinations and anaesthetics?
perhaps, but i think you give the consumer too little credit. to be fair his senses have been somewhat dulled by the tall promises of the state to keep him safe
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo The number of deaths caused by vaccine complications compared to the number of deaths cause by fools not getting actual medicine in favor of essentially, or most of the time actually, just water or lactose pills is not even close. Vaccines have an actual, provable effect, and are one of the major factors in the huge increase in lifespan over the past 100ish years. Homeopathy is just a money-sink for the gullible, with no basis in fact.
V2Gundam 1 year ago
@V2Gundam ok, so how many deaths were caused by people favouring alternative medicine? where are the numbers? you like to write about p'provable effects' and 'facts', but where are the bodies. i'll take a guessing and say that you're just guessing. imo, very few people look to alternative medicine for serious illness and even then it's normally as a last result ie all else has failed. that's beside the point though. if i CHOOSE alternative medicine what business is it of yours or the govts?
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo and that's the problem, it's not playing on what's possible or what's true, it's selling people false hopes, it's take advantage of what is a desperate time in people's lives. That is where such things are sickening, that selling Herbal medicines that won't do junk.... that is wrong, it's an out and out scam, and if it's not a scam, prove they actually work.... to date I have never heard of any herbal cure for Cancer, AIDS, stroke or such illnesses/diseasess that actually helped.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
and if you can't see how that's exploitation of desperate people... well then I don't think you are ever going to understand those of us that do care about the scams and tricks that get played on people.
As Herbal medicine goes, nobody knows if their are side-effects or even fatalities from it, because it's not recorded who did what, it's not like this thing called... the NHS that documents what happens to their patients and truly checks the medicine is... beneficial.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@58robbo Let me be clear. I believe that the government should have the same level of control over alternative medicine as it has over prescription drugs, or other controlled substances(mj, cocaine, etc.), none(except for antibiotics).
That being said, I was simply responding to the anti-vaccine rhetoric that is commonly associated with the alternative medicine movement. Vaccines are easily one of the top 5 inventions of the past two centuries, and they clearly merit an impassioned defense.
V2Gundam 1 year ago
@V2Gundam let me also be clear. my kids have had all their shots. having said that, my cousins niece died from complications surrounding one of the vaccines. i don't agree with govt control over medicine. i think they've done far more harm than good. the greatets harm they've done is to lull the general public into a false sense of security. this is the same with all govt regs whether they be medical, financial, airport security, etc. the role of govt is not to protect me from myself!
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo I think you missed the most critical part of my sentence, that I believe that the government should have no, I repeat, no ability to place restrictions on medications(outside of antibiotics, which are a very special case with a somewhat longer explanation than I can fit here), herbal remedies, or any form of narcotics, cocaine, marijuana, LSD, etc.
V2Gundam 1 year ago
@58robbo seems I missed this. Thousands of people do indeed succumb to complications, and that's why medicine is improving to find out when complications might occur or to drugs that have less complications. Most complications are due to serious drugs for serious conditions, some treatments like Chemotherapy are expected to have a high complication rate just due to what it is, complications with minor drugs are less common but still do occur. (cont)
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
that said medicines are used because they are the most effective with the least possible complications, given how people can be intolerant to various things (nuts for example) it's not going to be easy when you consider medicines tend to be more powerful chemicals. As for Vaccinations, the number of complications arising from is highly overplayed, it's actually extremely low (and general minor) and rarely if ever fatal, nor do they cause disabilities or Autism, that is essentially fabrication.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance take cannibis as an example. is it snake oil? many say it is. many also use it as an alternative to exhorbitant medication with harmful side effects. who should be the judge? the user or the state? i prefer to side with the user and i'm certain the police and prison resources would be better spent catching paedophiles, thieves and murderers
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo medical testing of Cannabis has positive results for it helping. Those that say it's snake oil do so falsely in the face of the scientific evidence that does exist. The problem with alternative (including herbal) medicines, is that they do not get tested, the effects of a lot of these herbs are untested... some have been of course, some have some effects some don't... those that don't are snake oil. I am not using opinion to judge what is and isn't snake oil, rather Scientific testing.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
also it should be noted that modern medicine would not miss out on tricks with herbs, in fact some medicines have had or do have a herbal base to them, that is how modern medicine works (at least in the UK)... the stuff that works stays, the stuff that doesn't is thrown away... with Herbal Medicine it doesn't matter if it works or not if it sells and there is a business in it, and that is a snake oil model for a lot of these types of businesses, they generally don't want their stock to be tested
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
which is questionable. Sure I am guessing some will, there is no requirement all are the same, some I am sure positively believe it works while others are much less caring and only in it for the money... now what was snake oil anyway? how does snake oil vary from herbal medicines? People use to believe that worked... people use to believe it was always snake oil, neither of those were true and that's why scientific testing needs to be done to prove what does and does not work.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance A society is only as good as the sum of its parts (individuals). Government cannot perfect the individual; only individuals, each one, improving his/her - self can perfect a society. Anything else is dictatorship. Finally, a lot of these herbs are things that have been used for millennia by people and which are used ubiquitously in varying societies with no negative side effects (like Stevia in Japan).
7Highlander 1 year ago
@7Highlander Government can however set the laws, and that is what matters. Protecting people from scams is something we expect of the police, while enforcing the law, unfortunately scam artists have got cleaver to finding loopholes, be it herbal medicine, chiropractic (which can be potentially lethal with many other complications), alternative medicines or whatever, a lot of the time it's just the same old snake oil salesmanship that is being employed, not realistic provable tested effects.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance so in your opinion only tested medicines should be available for use? let's assume for argument sake, that antibiotics have just recently been discovered. let's also assume that in testing some of the subjects react negatively to treatment. let's also assume that you have a serious staph infection in your legs, do you wait the 20 years for bureacratic approval or should you have the choice?
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo ok, let's look at ecstasy, it's just been discovered and anecdotal evidences shows that people who take it show an experience similar to that of a "love drug" and you are in a relationship that is on the rocks... do you want to take ecstasy? Because that is what happened, the side effects weren't known because it wasn't tested... see how this works both ways? Fact is what I just said, isn't a story, that is what actually happened with it!
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance not sure what point you're trying to make? are you saying that a snake oil salesman would market ecstacy to couples going through difficulty? i'd have no problem with that. let me get this straight, if the govt didn't attempt to stop people taking ecstacy, you're saying that you'd be taking it to help out with your relationship problems? how long do you think it would take before people realised it wasn't working?
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo no, I was setting the point that taking drugs that might do something could have very lethal consequences because they are untested. I would never take drugs to deal with my problem, however when people were "advised" to take them and by the occasional "professional", people were put into comas or even died from it. A drug could be a cure... it could also just kill you much much much quicker. That's why testing is important, to find out what it DOES do.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@DoomsdayR3sistance This idea that herbs are simply placebos is nonsense. There are herbs that can kill, that can paralyze (curari), that can cause elation (marijuana), help prostate problems (saw palmetto), lower blood pressure (dong quai), increase testosterone (Ginseng). Herbs can be dangerous or helpful or both if applied wrong. But, it is not any of the governments business what I choose for myself.
7Highlander 1 year ago
@7Highlander I have not said all at any point, in fact I specifically said several... note the following " would say that several types of herbal medicines". What you have created is called a straw man you have brought up an argument I did not make and argued against that, not the argument I actually made.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
@7Highlander It's true; there are many scams out there. Buyer Beware. Should the government ban infomercials? How many US people die from Aspirin - 500/year. How many livers are damaged by overusing Tylenol? How many people die from Alcohol? From bad eating habits? Shall gov't regulate and control the way you eat, drink.. A person is born, they live (hopefully very long), they die. People are people. They live their lives and make choices. They are not children to be controlled.
7Highlander 1 year ago
@7Highlander if I remember correctly in the UK 1/3rd of deaths are alcohol related and I am teetotal for the record, in fact I am rather against Alcohol and as recently appeared on BBC news, based on the impact of Alcohol if it were made illegal as a Drug, it would be a Class A, without a doubt with tobacco being a class B. However nobody claims that Aspirin overdose won't kill you, nor do pubs sell alcohol under the claim that it doesn't harm your body/liver. (cont)
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
but if you carry on with alcohol, it's effects are not just on the taker, drunk drivers will kill people, alcoholic people beat their partners (while usually this is men, it should not be ignore that some women do this too), a lot of people start fights when drunk, others vandalize things, from that perspective I do not believe alcohol should be legal, nor smoking which also effects others. While I believe for medical purposes Cannabis should be legal because that does not effect others.
DoomsdayR3sistance 1 year ago
There are so many rules and regulations in the Eu that it almost feels like anything and everything is not allowed. The EU is defintely not a place where one would want to open a small business, there are just too many rules and regulations. The EU fat cats are regulating the EU states into irrelavance.
gerasmus 1 year ago 2
If you give up a real testable treatment for an 'alternative' one that doesn't work you can't say that the latter treatment is harmless really
cladok 1 year ago
@cladok again, sarah palin is a moron but she was spot on when she labelled the nhs orwellian. i would prefer to live and die by my own decisions. this however is illegal because if i make bad decisions, everyone picks up the tab. therefore everyone will make my decisions for me
58robbo 1 year ago
why?
the answer is simple: EU is band of orthodox communists...
kaszmir88 1 year ago
But marijuana, cocaine, yes "they can", right?
ALingua 1 year ago
VERY WELL SAID DAN .... time for those Brusselcats to leave .
The arrogance !
StandUp555 1 year ago 2
They want to do this in the States too. This has more to do with kill liberties.
Mackingster 1 year ago
SCREW the EU!
mallardhead 1 year ago
well said
WadabawSleeve 1 year ago