Narcissus - the true story, a gay tragedy

[SapphicSista]

This is basically the story of my life.

[relltdl]

THIS IS ANCIENT YAOI :3

[gibletlover]

cool storie very interesting he loved himself so much he killed himself wow

[matthewaaron19]

There is so much fucking HOMOPHOBIC censorship of you tube I wanna fucking kill someone!

[Mr1958louief]

@matthewaaron19 They think we will go away!! Laughs on them!! We Gays have been around as long as Breeders have!! We just enjoy Our Lives More, Make More Money, and have Less Burdens((::

[xvermillionlustx]

what a DISH he was XD hahaha <3

[xvermillionlustx]

I love how this guy talks : D

[monique2489]

I love all these myths, and I adore this voice over simply because the narrator delivers it dramatically (in an amazing way of course xD)

:) that and i love learning about greek myths like this XD

nicely done sir :)

[mewtata]

I wonder when the story of Echo was made. The two are so completely different; what with Echo's curse and it changing from Artimis to Aphrotite who does the punishment. I wonder how the other originated.

[HaidukPressOnline]

@mewtata Ovid wrote that version long after the original one first appeared. He was gathering tales of shape-shifting (metamorphoses) and it suited him very nicely to add Echo to the tale, and to delete Ameinias. After all he was not writing for the gay Greeks, he was writing for the uptight Romans.

[48acar19]

Goethe once said that "he who does not believe in the return in force of the Ancient Greece is narrow-minded"!

And he added "Die Knabenliebe sei so alt wie die Menschheit"!

That means: "The love for boys is as old as the humakind".

In fact things are accelerating because of the internet revolution.

As for the Greeks, they were not the only ancient culture to cherish the love between young men. The celtic wariors were renown for sleeping every night not just with a single boy like Greeks!

[CadmonAlima]

Man I love the story of Narcissus. That man told it really well. The gay version is so strong in emotion. Gotta love the Greeks.

[18iis]

This is so well told. My only question is on the description. You say "if we go by the fate of Narcissus, [gay relationships] are sterile and selfish". What I get from the story is that Narcissus was doomed because he didn't allow [gay or straight] love. If he had loved Ameinias, he would have had a good life. So the story is an affirmation of gay love. Am I wrong in my interpretation?

[HaidukPressOnline]

@18iis My reading of it is that it is indeed an affirmation of gay love, but not of those loves where the lovers are mirror images of each other. We could say that it is our differences that make us interesting to each other, not our similarities. All this is subjective interpretation, of course.

[Karilus75]

@18iis Its not about affimation of gay love, The morale of the story was that if he had accepted being loved and loving someone else, he would have been normal... he ignored guys and girls the same...

[18iis]

@Karilus75

when I said "the story is an affirmation of gay love", I didn't mean "and a rejection of straight love". As you say, all love is good love.

[GMJ7]

Why is this flagged as inappropriate?!

[HaidukPressOnline]

Sabotage.

[thedancetuber]

truly a shame, a reading such as this cannot be appreciated for its stunning delivery aside from the story itself, to have it flagged is a stake into the heart of free speech.

[18iis]

@HaidukPressOnline

This happened to He-Wolf (based on Sakira's She-Wolf) last year and everyone was pissed off. Finally the 18-ban got lifted, but I'm not sure how they did it. Maybe try to contact the user "skwrrelhunter", tho imagine he's pretty busy w/ so many comments.

[ani1616]

@GMJ7 Cuz it Gay.

[AngelicSefirosu]

Is this the original story? Was the story with Narcissus and Echo the another version?

[GMJ7]

This is the Hellenic version. The story involving Echo was a Roman addition much later on (after pederasty became unfashionable).

[raphael3712]

Most greek myths have several, often conflicting versions. It's no wonder concidering how widely varied Greek culture across the city states and across the centuries they were told.

[QuickenedSand]

I believe Narcissus to be vain and cruel. His name is now in itself a synanum for vanity. He fell in love with himself, a foolish mistake. And because he was so beautiful, he thought others weren't good enough for him. I don't much like his character.

[eldadevata]

my love is neither the object of obsession, like Narcissus nor old and ugly. he is a person. being harassed because of your beauty or ignored because of your age, is just the same. its being treated as an object, and not a person or a human being. if love(your love, because you cant speak of mine or anyones ells for that matter), is what you describe, I hope you always inform your partner about it beforehand, because in the end, they might want something ells.

[Calimach]

Very polite. Very controlled. But is this love? Sounds more like a business deal, like haggling over a pile of beans. Have you not read the poet?

"If both deliberate, the love is slight.

Who ever loved that loved not at first sight?"

Sorry, there are not six billion ways to love, no more than there are six billion ways to breathe. The reason we can resonate to a love song is because we recognize ourselves in it. And love has nothing to do with reserve, or with calling lovers psychotic.

[QuickenedSand]

There may not be six billion ways, but there is currently five forms of love.

Pragma, Ludus, Storge, Eros, and Mania

And people have differnt depictions of love, love is not limited to one persons ideal.

[eldadevata]

it seems to me that we argue about something, I did not want in the first place. something very personal, and unquestionable at that personal level. at least not by me. this is not empty politeness but respect for my own feelings and thru it respect for others. your way off understanding is very much different from mine, and I do respect that, just like I know all others are also different. love is love, its our understanding and experience that makes it different.

[Calimach]

It is a rare pleasure to get intelligent discussion of the issues raised by the Greek myths. As for our debate, it is serious but it is also play. Allow me to continue to disagree with you: everything should be questioned.

You have contributed an original point of view: Ameinias as neurotic aggressor and Narcissus as victim. It's not as personal as you think, for it sums up the modern take on man / boy love. But as a result you have medicalized and devalued love itself.

Regards,

Calimach

[eldadevata]

original? I believe my point of view is based on a different cultural approach, but it is not original. in the American culture, where fans and news writers have the right to harass their idols, just because the stars have something they want to own(beauty, money, success), it seems natural that the responsibility is transferred from the infatuated person to the passive object of his desire. this boy/man horror story is very much similar to a modern-day idol/fan harassment story.

Adrian

[eldadevata]

and to take the discussion in the direction of love as a concept.

yes, I do call the desire for an object of beauty, that leads people to commit suicide, obsession.

compulsive desire to own the object, which leads to suicide or murder is just the same.

I wonder what would have happened if he would be old and ugly?

for me love comes out of understanding and compassion, that might lead you to die for that person.

but killing yourself, because you cant have him, makes anyone a plain psychopath.

[Calimach]

The Greeks have a long tradition of boy love suicide. Do you not know the story of Meles and Timagoras?

The flat plain of desire which you postulate does not exist. Is your own lover old and ugly?

Love is not this plain, polite, evenhanded, fair, gentle affair you conceptualize. It is outrageous, unreasonable, extreme, relentless, and FELT. It has nothing to do with "knowing another's heart" (what the hell does that mean, anyway?) or "equality" which is just another intellectual concept.

[eldadevata]

interesting point of view.

murders love? it depends what you call love.

Im not using an negative adjective to depict love, as Im not discussing love as per se.

Im just using a proper name to depict what I see and understand.

Narcissus is the victim, just as much any star of today is a victim, when he/she is harassed by fans.

cruel? he might be. but just as gods are an allegory probably the knife is the same.

[eldadevata]

the story of Narcissus, is not a love story.

it was actually a tale for young boys, a threat, so they might fear denying the courtship of older men.

it is the tale, that equates lust for an aesthetical object, with love that comes from knowing another persons heart.

it is a tale with a very smart moral twist, that reflects the responsibility of being desired from the one that feels the desire to the one who is desired.

[Calimach]

When you fall in love you do not know the other person's heart. You fall in love with beauty. If a girl in school turned up her nose at all the guys she would be called a cold bitch. This is not any different. And is it not usual that in a love affair one loves more than the other? Equality is a myth, or a lie.

[eldadevata]

I dont believe that my comment discusses the essence of love. in the context you put it. its a matter of taste and understanding. for you equality might not exist, but you are only one in 6 billion people. you might fall for the outer beauty of people, but beauty is also a matter of taste, and hunger and lust. every day we meet many people who are physically attractive, but we dont want to go out with all of them, because the person behind the face is also important.

[Calimach]

Everyone is one in six billion, so what?Your ideas led me to ask a number of people about equality in love. Everyone said that in love one is more loved and the other is more loving. So Narcissus is very much a love story about a boy who was too cold or too numb (narkos, as in narcotic) or too afraid to love back. When someone loves you your heart is touched. You might not respond every time in like manner, but if you NEVER respond something is very wrong. That is what the story teaches.

[eldadevata]

well just that. that you and I are just one, and we have a different experience and view of things because of it. like I said, to you or whomever you know out of 6 billion people, love might be about outer beauty or unrequited(not equal dedication) feelings. but for me it is not. this story is manipulated to conclude in the end, that Narcissus deserved to be cursed and die, because of his free choice to stay alone, un touched(as you put it). its a threat, to inspire fear in the young.

[Calimach]

I have fundamental problems with the theory of equality. How do you measure that equality? In what units and on what balance? It sounds to me more like a romantic fiction people tell themselves, trying to control the uncontrolable. I don't know about you, but when I am in love I love, I do not measure.

As for manipulation, the story has a moral. I mentioned Ali Baba earlier. That story too is "manipulated" to condemn greed. All such stories teach something. Why call teaching "manipulation"?

[eldadevata]

well, I could ask the same. who are you or anyone ells for that matter, to measure the love of the other person, even in your own relationships? and how can you say that you or the other loves and cares more? how do you quantify the more and the less? well thats watt I was also saying in the beginning, that this story has a very smart but twisted moral, and its not about love, its about inspiring fear in young men, in the historical/cultural context, quite obvious.

[eldadevata]

why is it manipulated? because the responsibility and faulty is transmigrated from the active player(the one that feels the attraction) to the passive object(of attraction). Narcissus as a desirable object(body) has no responsibility, for whom lusts over him. furthermore he has the basic human right to chose no one. he did not deserve to be cursed to die, just because he was born attractive, and he chose to stay alone. he is the victim of others obsession over his body.

[Calimach]

Narcissus murders love. From a position of strength he sends a vulnerable man a sword, causing his death. How can you say that he is the victim?

Yes he has a responsibility: to be kind. But he was cruel instead, and as a result of his action other events inevitably-divinely occur. For that is what the gods are, the anthropomorphic incarnation of natural forces.

Finally, your depiction of love is curiously negative. "Lust," "obsession." Why? Do you deny the existence of love at first sight?

[BenivolentWarlock]

Poor Narcissus! I could totally feel his pain. I feel sorry for him. I can relate to his story

[groper300]

Many boys distinguished themselves as warriors primarily because they were still boys with greater speed and agility than the men they were pitted against. In Roman times, men did not depilate their pubic region. Pubic hair was their badge of manhood and no self-respecting man would have permitted a sculptor to depict him without it. Don't compare modern "nancyish" gay men with those of Roman times, or modern "childhood" with Roman childhood.

[HaidukPressOnline]

First of all, the minimum age of recruitment in Roman imperial times was eighteen. Secondly, the proportions of the statues that you are concerned about are adult proportions. While the genitals, on close inspection, may well seem immature I think we can safely attribute that to artistic license. These are works of art, not anatomically correct replicas. Why are you so concerned about this detail? And why do you call depilated gays "nancyish"? Does one have to look like an ape to be masculine?

[groper300]

First, in Roman (and ancient Greek) times, sculptures were intended to accurately represent the physical features of the person being represented. It was also commonplace for boys to accompany their mentor legionnaires on their campaigns, and to accompany them into battle. As for modern gays who depilate their genitals, they do so to look like boys or women, not men.

[HaidukPressOnline]

Statues have always been, and will always be, symbolical. Sculptors sure did use calipers to gauge facial features, but are you saying they stuck those tools in the private parts as well. Look, the video is really about the story, and the statue was chosen because it showed an emotion, not for the shape of the dicks, for God's sake. Oh, about the boys who went along on campaign: they were not fighters, they were lovers. They did not fight. They did something else.

[asef8472]

Groper300 you are absolutely wrong. Hair removal reasons range from having a laugh, to highlighting body lines blurred by hair, to having a tactile feeling that subjectively is more sensual, to evidence based findings that on average -given the same body shape- people tend to find more hairless males more attractive -regardless of whether they believe they prefer hairier men or not (cannot quote study now). Wishing to appear more femenine is, I find, usually the last thing on gay males minds

[groper300]

If the boys of Greek mythology are all of an age that would be legal in most jurisdictions today, why is it that virtually all depictions of them from that time show them with the genitals of a pre-pubescent boy, including the statues featured in this video?

[HaidukPressOnline]

The Eros and the Castor and Polux group in the video are all grown up males, late teens or early twenties. The Greeks thought big genitals were ridiculous, so all their serious figures have small ones, while their comic figures have huge ones.

[groper300]

Where do you get that from? The bodies of the two statues are clearly those of fit and active pre-pubescent boys, not men. Greek Sculptors of the time were more than capable of differentiating between the body of a man and the body of a boy, as is demonstrated by "The Sleeping Faun", a sculpture from the same period that is clearly and unmistakably a man. The penis is small, but the scrotum is both larger and hanging lower, pubic hair is depicted and the musculature substantially more developed.

[HaidukPressOnline]

I can not account for what you see in these statues. I see the bodies and faces of men, who today would be in college or in the army. Also, you are mistaken about the periods. The Eros is a Classical work, the Satyr you mention is Hellenistic, and the Castor / Polux group is Roman. Castor and Polux look like any two guys in a modern gay sauna, buff, epilated, laid back. Plus, why would the two be identified as Castor and Polux when that myth is not about children but about warriors?!

[groper300]

You forget that up until the mid 20th century, manhood was considered to arrive at puberty. The arrival of puberty, most obviously signified by the advent of pubic hair, was when a boy became a man. In Roman times, boys would begin training to become legionnaires at about the age of 8 or 9, and in times of crisis, the more advanced and skilled boys would be pressed into service. That they fought as warriors does not automatically imply that they were men.

[kenster112]

How are the dioscuri Roman and gay???

[GoddessOfSnakes]

Narcissus was a fool.