Aslan is an apologist and is welcome Iran because of it. His book No god but God is a perfect example of whitewashing the violent and unsupportable aspects of Islam. The book has very little academic documentation,,,the first sign of poor scholarship.
Listen to Reza speak a few times. He contradicts himself at least 3 times.. He starts with saying we shouldnt have been so rude. THen at the end he says we should mock him.. What is it Reza???
Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.
WTF is wrong with people. Just compare the deaths caused by USA and the ones caused by Iran its not that hard. USA meddles with every country in the world and simply wants to be the most powerful country in the world by creating nukes.
The person who selected this video tittle did a piss poor job. Reza speaks the truth. The president of Iran IS nothing more than a figure head. Equating him to Hitler is ridiculous.
The title for this video is EXTREMELY misleading. If you actually clear your mind and LISTEN to what Anderson and Reza are discussing, you too would agree with them. People like the uploader of this video seem to be selective in what they hear and transfigure it to fit their picture of others.
@oliverdavidanderson well they invited him, but you should not dis him in the language he does not speak it shows you how disrespect we are, look at oxford they invited a Muslim imam didn`t make it because of UK not leting him in, and the media called him terrorist , but the still did live Q&A from his studio, to the school library, respect stick to your pricipal
I don't think there is anything wrong what Reza actually says. Well, there are obviously minor disagreements but I don't think he is wrong all the way!
@chrishanna236 I know Bush is Adolf's secret son. According to one conspiracy Jews killed eachother, it was a sectarian violence that happened in Germany. I agree.
The funniest thing in all this is that people generally call Islam violent, but yet, they haven't even bothered to read the Quran. It's really an identity crisis whereupon non-Muslim Europeans and North Americans attempt to find themselves by pointing at the "others." They speak of the "virtues" of the west and what-not as well "western civilization," but those things don't really mean anything.
The "Petty and Cruel dictator" remark seemed so contrived. If only Columbia University treated all the petty and cruel dictators in world this way, then they could be described as principled and sincere. But they wont. Saudi donations, for one, will not arrive at the University (as they have done) if Saudi Arabia's petty and cruel record is brought up.
Wait how is ahmadinejad responsible for all that is going wrong in Iran if he's just a powerless figurehead? Shouldn't the Supreme Leader be the one who's losing popularity etc. I read that they love Ahmadinejad back in iran too BECAUSE of his incessant anti american stuff.
@spacecowboy95 Nonsense opinions? Which comment in this video do you disagree with? He was spot on and it only takes an hour of personal research in reputable conservative and liberal think tank sources to realize that Ahmadinejad indeed is a rather weak politician inside Iran. Heck Rafsanjani is MUCH more powerful than Ahmadinejad in Iran!
@lakeshow499 Im not disputing technical influence Ahmadinejad may or may not have in Iran. i think that its a rather irrelevant point either way. He is an international figure who speaks on the behalf of a state, he is uncooperative with IAEA, and happens to think the holocaust never happened. However Reza seems to think these are less important points.
Have you read any of Reza's work? Seen his debates? He is a pathetic hack of a journalist in my opinion.
@spacecowboy95 He does not dictate Iran's policy toward IAEA. Anyway, Reza is spot on that his radical viewpoints are irrelevant. It is only the media who dangerously overstates the relevancy of those absurd comments and his capacity to act on them. Of much greater importance is the words of the Supreme Leader which dictate policy. As someone who travels to Iran, I must say, Reza is actually usually spot on in his assessment of Iranian domestic politics. Ahmadi does not deserve the coverage.
@ManifestationOfTruth Ahmadinejad clearly influences public opinion in a negative way, Aslan is not making any point other than to say that Ahmadi doesnt deserve coverage, why? The guy is clearly a lunatic and is the face of an entire nation in the international community.
Aslan is another half baked journalist and an apologist for islam who cant bring himslef to admit that religion is the real poison of the middle east.
@spacecowboy95 As others have pointed out, Ahmadinejad may influence public opinion to an extent, but he's much more of a pawn then you think. The Guardian Council and Supreme Leader of Iran also clearly influence the country. The question is, who has more influence? If you've studied any of the history associated with Muslim majority middle eastern countries, including Saudi Arabia, you'll realize that most of their "dictators" and leaders are pawns or linked to international elitists.
@ManifestationOfTruth Your bias is apparent in your conclusion: do you honestly think Reza Aslan was useless against Harris? I've seen the entire debate several times in the past, so I won't bother reviewing it now. It should be noted that I've watched it while I was an Agnostic Atheist, and afterwards, when I reverted to Islam. I never once doubted Reza's intelligence, he responded to Harris rather well. He even presented evidence demonstrating how Islam is not a monolithic religion.
@ManifestationOfTruth I don't believe Harris even responded to this thoroughly, other than making generalizations about "Islam" and taking verses out of the Qur'an, devoid of any historical or textual context. Mind me, I do find Harris intelligent. I believe this was during the portion where Reza referred to the Latin American conception of Christianity (Jesus being viewed as a warrior). Anyways, I'm interested in your opinion - what leads you to believe Harris "owned" him so badly?
@ManifestationOfTruth Sam's thesis is simply stronger. Beliefs inform actions, and it is inclredibly easy to read the koran in such a way so as to justify the actions of terrorists. Whether or not you think these interpretations are the "correct" ones is irrelevant. you cannot claim to posess the true meaning of the koran any more than a member of al queda. Reza is just an obscurantist who is out to defend religion even when it is obviously divisive and above all... pointless.
@spacecowboy95 Had you actually studied the Qur'an, the science of Hadith, and the Qur'anic sciences, you'd realize your argument has holes. First of all, can you point me to a single member of such terrorist organizations that can compose an intelligent argument which supports their interpretation? So far, I have seen none, other than the same poor attempts at citing verses completely out of context, without the necessary knowledge of historical and textual context, classical Arabic etc. [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth Thus, your agument is false, as it assumes that my interpretation and a terrorist's are equal in validity (which is determined by their knowledge of what I've mentioned, and ability to formulate rational arguments, which they seem to lack). Take world class scholars like Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, or intellectuals such as Hamza Andreas Tzortzis, and you'll notice the difference between an educated Muslim, and a closed minded radical.
@ManifestationOfTruth You are no different from Reza, you dont want to admit that the koran itself is a book which has specific doctrines of violence which are influencing a large number of people in a negative way. Your faith in the religion is preventing you from admitting that the religion itself is a part of the problem.
If tommorow, everyone in the middle east woke up as atheists, no concepts of Shia or Sunni, no tribalism. Would the rate of suicide bombing go up or down???
@spacecowboy95 That depends on another question: If everyone in the Middle East woke up as atheists, with no concept of Shia or Sunni or tribalism, would the Jews give the Palestinians their land back? Would Western countries stop supporting brutal dictators?
It's funny how biased you are. You think being atheist makes you reasonable. Yet you don't even mention Judaism or Christians religions disappearing as well. Your atheism only makes you more arrogant and self-assured in your own beliefs.
@sodapoprags I would think tha if no one in the middle east believed that god worked as a real estate agent and promised them a special patch of land, there would be less to fight over. Ask yourself why the Jews wanted palestine to begin with? And not say, Kenya. Ive never said that atheism makes people more reasonable, most reasonable people are atheists however. I'm simply saying that it guards against specific behaviour like blowing yourself up in the name of your imaginary friend.
@ManifestationOfTruth There are countless mullas throughout the muslim world who can quote the koran and hadiths verbatim to support their views, and millions of muslims pay attention. Just a week ago a girl at a university in my city tried to murder a politician because she was influenced by Anwar al-Awlaki lecutres on youtube.
But instead of confronting this problem your best answer is to simply say "they are not smart, they have it wrong, I have it right". And they would say the same to you
@spacecowboy95 I'm going to have to look into this Anwar's lectures to see what kind of evidence he cites. There are also countless Scholars with valid degrees in Islamic Studies from prestigious Islamic Universities condemning such "Mullahs" who have been conditioned by the forces of politics, culture, and bigotry. I should remind you of a quote by the Prophet Muhammad, who described many of the "scholars" of the "end times" as being the worst of creatures (for their lack of understanding).
@ManifestationOfTruth The question is, are they providing accurate evidence, and following the examples of pious Muslim Caliphs who were far more merciful to other religious views than much of Christendom? In Baghdad, Muslims hosted dialogues between Atheists, Christians, Polytheists, Deists etc. I have never denied that a problem exists, however, there's not much a 17 year old such as myself can do other than educate his fellow classmates, volunteer with local intellectual movements [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth charitable organizations, and engage in studying these matters. Perhaps when I'm older and have more influence, hopefully I'll do something about such things. Your argument, again, rests upon the assumption that the evidence they bring forth is equally valid as the evidence brought forth by Muslim scholars against their position. This is simply not true, as has been demonstrated by plenty of Muslim intellectuals such as Hamza Andreas Tzortzis, Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad etc.
@ManifestationOfTruth I'm going to have to see specific arguments from such people, in order to respond to them. Secondly, you cite an instance where a Muslim commited something bad, because of the influence of Islam. By the same token, I can cite something (founded upon rational principles) positive: watch?v=KQC4bu3qd2w. Secondly, I am just like Reza, because I fail to see how the Qur'an legitimately, advocates the actions of such terrorists. Show me how.
@ManifestationOfTruth Further, your example is fallacious. You assume that because Atheism would not promote suicide bombing (presuming that Islam at the root is the cause of this), replacing the problematic concepts of Islam in the middle east with Atheism, would apparently be the solution? If Atheism is true, certainly, if not, then no. Secular states and ideologies have their fair share of violence, which were committed to further such ideologies.
@ManifestationOfTruth On a final note, The main issue is, you disregard all other factors that can contribute to such practices. I should finish off by saying, my position isn't that we shouldn't bother understanding subjectivity (our religious experiences or spirituality) objectively, my position is, that religion in general expresses an important metaphor about human existence. Of course, an objective explanation of reality is always going to be more valuable and worthy than a subjective one.
@ManifestationOfTruth Im not presuming that the doctrines of islam cause suicidal violence, I know they do. How? Because Bin Laden and the would be suicide bombers tell the world in their clearest voices that they do these things because of what the koran says. You are just reluctant to admit that these murderers have a very plausible interpretation of the koran and hadiths, and you would be forced to split hairs to debate them. Have you even read the koran? Would you like me to quote?
@spacecowboy95 Check your inbox, I've sent a response to these comments. I'll post a few more here though. It's rather arrogant of you to assume you "know" Islam sanctions such actions without providing a shred of evidence. You're logic here is poor as you assume that because Bin Laden makes a statement, therefore the statement must be true. Numerous factors are omitted in making such a claim. If you're really interested, I've provided a detailed paper which analyzes Bin Laden's interpretation.
@ManifestationOfTruth And it is not a matter of whether atheism is "true", because we could never know such a thing anyway. I cant prove there is no god just like i cant prove there are no unicorns. Atheism simply means you lack belief in gods, so i'll ask you again, if suicide bombers in the mid east stopped believing the koran was written by god, or that there even was a god, would they still go around blowing themselves up with korans strapped to their chests?
@spacecowboy95 Or I could ask you another question and switch the religion around. In Nigeria, little children are being buried alive and babies are having acid spilt on them because the christian preachers there say that that these children are witches. Its basically a modern day witch hunt.
Now if these people in Nigeria stopped believing in christianity and witchcraft, would they still go around torturing children as witches? Yes or No?
@spacecowboy95 You don't seem to understand my point. First of all, in order for atheism to be "true", one must not prove the non-existence of God (i.e. proving a negative). One simply needs to show that it is the best position. This wouldn't render it an absolute truth, but we don't have access to such knowledge, now do we? As for your question, I'm not quite sure. The japanese kamakize fighters had no problem, and the samurai also did not hesitate to commit seppuku. [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth No you are confused, in order for me to prove atheism is "true" I would need to demonstrate that no gods exist, not just argue that it is the most reasonable position. Those are two different things. You said that atheism would only be a solution in the superstitious middle east if it were true, but even if atheism werent true, it would obviously be better for people not to pretend to KNOW there is a god and KNOW what this god wants, and instead be skeptical.
@spacecowboy95 First of all, you're going to need to define "solution" here. The problem with this argument is a) it assumes that Atheism will avoid other problems. The reason I mentioned truth, was because if Atheism was false, it would run into a bigger problem of conflicting with truth. b) it also assumes a rather subjective concept of solution based upon a limited understanding of the problem. (yours). I'll respond to the rest of your points in a later on. Take care.
@spacecowboy95 I was going by the definition that Atheism is the absence of belief founded upon the lack of sufficient evidence; not that there absolutely are no gods. If the former definition is correct, then by proving that Atheism is the most reasonable position, you are in fact proving its veracity (i.e. it is true that there is insufficient evidence which warrants the lack of belief). This would require an investigation into the various arguments for various conceptions of "God".
@ManifestationOfTruth However, this doesn't somehow entail that Atheism would solve anything. You completely disregard the actual roots of the problem in the Middle East, and the politics associated with it. Why are there suicide bombings? That's a question you've answered with: Because of Islam. Thus far, I haven't seen any evidence. Until that question is answered, how can you determine the solution? Until you identify the root cause of the problem, how can you even suggest a solution? [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth In the message I've sent to your in-box, I elaborate upon this. So I'm going to await your evidence warranting your attacks on Islamic doctrine (i.e. suggesting that it is the cause, disregarding all other variables and factors).
@ManifestationOfTruth "You completely disregard the actual roots of the problem in the Middle East" Like? Remember we are talking about islamic terrorism here.
@ManifestationOfTruth "I was going by the definition that Atheism is the absence of belief founded upon the lack of sufficient evidence; not that there absolutely are no gods"
You are going back on yourself here, you clearly said before that atheism would only work if it were "true". And I have told you twice now I think that it would be impossible to prove that there are no gods. You are confusing the reasons for atheism with what atheism implies about the existence of deities.
@spacecowboy95 I stated this before you even defined "solution", and I presupposed that by solution you meant an end to the greater problem in the middle east, and in fact this world. I do not believe this, for reasons I've provided in my email to you. I maintain that Islam would provide the solutions as it is an ideology with a systematic approach to life, a political and economic system founded upon its spiritual premise.
@ManifestationOfTruth Atheism isn't even an ideology, which enables humans to deduce the "best way of living" as your left with complete human subjectivity. Given Atheism, morals are subjective, laws are subjective, every human construct is essentially subjective. How will that solve the problem in the middle east, when the root of the problem itself is human subjectivity - a difference in opinion, the inability to understand one another and cease to fear one another.
@ManifestationOfTruth So you're left with a sea of viewpoints. The one that is true, if any, is the path to be taken. That is my point - the ultimate solution, not just to the middle east's problems, but to humanity's, would be to accept and live by the truth. The challenge? A) Is there such a truth? B) If so, how do we determine it? This is the core philosophy of Islam - to accept, to submit, and to live a way of life dedicated to "Truth", and finally achieve that state of inner peace.
@ManifestationOfTruth And for those who don't want to accept it - that's fine, they shouldn't be forced. However, Muslims, and non-Muslims should live by some common truths, and thereby establish some common ground. The problem is complicated - the most complicated problem that affects us, which the most brilliant minds have contemplated for their entire lives. Who will solve it? We should all aspire to try to, instead of spewing ignorant nonsense at one another.
@ManifestationOfTruth And for those who don't want to accept it - that's fine, they shouldn't be forced. However, Muslims, and non-Muslims should live by some common truths, and thereby establish some common ground. The problem is complicated - the most complicated problem that affects us, which the most brilliant minds have contemplated for their entire lives. Who will solve it? We should all aspire to try to, instead of spewing ignorant nonsense at one another. Anyways, I'm done with this.
@ManifestationOfTruth "And for those who don't want to accept it - that's fine, they shouldn't be forced"
Wow, really? According to your koran allah is the enemy of the unbelievers, i know what you are going to say "where in the koran does it say that?" well...
"gods curse be upon the infidels!' 2:89, "god is the enemy of the unbelivers!" 2:98, "they shall drink scalding water and be punished for their unbelief" 6:70, Fight against them [until] gods religion reigns supreme" 2: 190-93.
@spacecowboy95 Refer to your in box, I've addressed similar verses, and have provided thorough explanations. Afterwords, if you're still not satisfied, I'll respond directly to these ones.
@ManifestationOfTruth Alright, I've provided you with a thorough list of verses, and evidence to the contrary. I've realized that this dialogue is rather pointless as you're unwilling to educate yourself on these matters. So here's the deal, if you respond with an open mind (and no that does not mean agreeing with me) by actually addressing my evidence, without repeating the same old misinformed views, I'll respond. Otherwise, I'm done with this, there are far more well-informed Atheists.
@ManifestationOfTruth Let me know if you actually even bothered to look at the links I've provided, as I'll have you know I've looked at yours. Btw, I ask you to be "open-minded" as you've lied directly to me regarding the early history of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad's mission. This shows me you don't seem to take this seriously, and are glued to your views.
@ManifestationOfTruth One last thing. I'm seriously interested if you've ever taken high school World History? I don't mean that as an insult, but if you have, did the curriculum include any units on the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan?
@ManifestationOfTruth Actually I studied international relations at university, and no I didnt lie to you about muhammed's violent deeds. Have you ever considered the possibility that the reason you have such a squeaky clean view of your precious prophet and his religion is because you are reading material which was written by other muslim apologists?
@spacecowboy95 International Relations huh? Nice. Then, that confuses me even more, that you don't seem to know much about the Middle East conflict and Islam's role. In fact, it took you how long to even cite some verses as examples? You lied about history, my friend. Your summary was completely inaccurate. Either you lied, or didn't know. I'll go with, that you didn't know. I have read from many sources, including Prophet of Doom, and other anti-Islamic books. Its important to investigate.
@ManifestationOfTruth Considering how you haven't provided any conclusive evidence suggesting that Islam itself causes those problems (and yet you ignore the positive atmosphere Islam created which caused the Golden Age), you shouldn't make such claims. I've sent you another response. You've missed my entire argument - partly because you're unwilling to understand a simple concept, but hopefully this response clarifies things. With Peace!
@spacecowboy95 0dude your such a retard. where do you think non-muslims get their knowledge of Islam prophet Muhammad(pbuh)?? you think they get it from christian sources?? of course not, they get it from islamic and muslim sources. you people like to cherry pick controversial passages of the quran, with a complete lack of understanding of both textual and historical context and the uniqueness of the arabic language.(cont.)
@spacecowboy9 Muslims will interpret Islam like they did for 1400 years, we don't need non-muslims try teach us what Islam is about it. there is no point speaking to people like you, you are determined and adament to slander muslims and islam no matter the truth. i would like to help you udnerstand, as you are completely ignorant, but no one can help you if you have a closed mind like you have. if you want to learn about ISLAM , learn is from MUSLIM sources first, not Robert Spencer.
@blackstars56 Nothing you have said undermines my point, Islam is a religion of violence, its founding text contains numerous passages which can be understood to be sanctions to destroy unbelievers and/or die for the cause of the faith. And since muslims actually believe this book is the word of the creator of the universe, they have more than enough reason to take it seriously. And there are countless mullas in your culture who preach these messages to the next generation of martyrs.
@spacecowboy95 I'm sick of these ignorant bigots. Show me the verses that order muslims to "indiscriminately kill infidels and subject the universe to Sharia Law". Now assuming (which is completely not true) there are violent passages in the Quran that order the killings of non-muslims, we can then conclude that the Quran is a book of violence.
@blackstars56 But we have to apply that reasoning across the board -- that means through violent passages in both the Bible and Talmud, we also have to conclude these books are violent books -- which were displayed in the barbaric events of the Crusades and such.
@ManifestationOfTruth No evidence you have provided disproves my claim that the doctrine of islam contributes to the ongoing violence throughout the middle east and the rest of the world. The best you have done is to simply deny this fact and play a self righteous game by saying that they have the "wrong" version of islam. It doesnt matter to me how long your replies are or who you think agrees with your interpretation, the only thing that matters is whether islam causes people to act violently.
@fandanstan Yes, Islam does cause people to act violently, just in the same way that belief witchcraft causes people in Nigeria to bury children alive.
You my friend, are in denial. It's simply too difficult for you to admit that specific doctrined within Islam are a part of the problem. People are motivated by these beliefe to act in ways they otherwise wouldnt.
@spacecowboy95 That's a bold thing to say, since most of the crimes in America is committed by non-Muslims. Hell, just some time ago, a guy (non-Muslim) went into some school board meeting and shot at the members, then shot himself.
Why is it you only look at what Muslims are doing? Why are you ignoring ALL other crimes? That's a dangerous thing to do, and I'm afraid it's the beginning of something worse. Perhaps another holocaust, who knows. Ppl like you are dangerous.
@spacecowboy95 "I would think tha if no one in the middle east believed that god worked as a real estate agent and promised them a special patch of land, there would be less to fight over. Ask yourself why the Jews wanted palestine to begin with? And not say, Kenya."
I agree with you on that (and I actually am an atheist). What I was objecting to is the single-minded bashing of one religion when there is more involved.
yes there is no dogma, no ideology, no scripture, people are free to think for themselves and behave according to their regular, innate morality, not obey some tribal barbarism as it is written in an ancient book. You know full well that religion does not make a person moral, and atheism doesnt make a person immoral. The difference is that an atheist wont have his morality distorted by believing that god wants him to fight in his cause.
@spacecowboy95 Again, I never stated that Atheists cannot be moral. I'm a former Agnostic Atheist, and wasn't an evil murderer. My position is that, rationally and philosophically, when one is devoid of objective morality, no moral values are objectively true. As such, it is impossible to come to an agreement upon (with the whole world) how we should behave, if we reserve the discussion to our opinions. Further, it is also rationally flawed to say actions we consider wrong, are actually wrong.
@ManifestationOfTruth "I maintain that Islam would provide the solutions as it is an ideology with a systematic approach to life"
Its funny, islam is spread throughout the middle east right now, and look how much good it is doing. look at countries like saudi arabia where you can be killed for practicing witchcraft, or palestine where you can be arrested for being an atheist, or iran where you can be stoned to death for having sex with who you want. These places are hell holes.
@spacecowboy95 Yes, the Muslim world is in a terrible state. However, as you've done innumerous times, you've overlooked history and politics. No single Caliphate system exists, and most of those countries are ruled by either corrupt Monarchies and Dictators that discriminate based on race (against Islamic practice, thereby bring their credibility into serious question), are in league with the US, or have fallen apart due to the instability of their past.
@ManifestationOfTruth As for Islamic punishment, refer to Hamza Andreas Tzortzis' debate: Is Islamic Law Barbaric or Misunderstood? Before judging Islam's view on sexuality (premarital and extramarital) you need to understand the ideology and the system. Judging such things based on your own subjective standards and social conditioning is meaningless.
@ManifestationOfTruth And if you are really curious, then yes, atheism is the most reasonable position. It is simply the lack of belief in god. You are an atheist with regards to the christian god, or the god of the jews, or Zeus or Thor or Apollo, we are both atheists with regards to all these gods, you know exactly what it is like to be an atheist, the only difference between me and you is that I believe in one less god than you do.
@spacecowboy95 I apologize, I'll respond to your earlier comments later. I'm at some friends party at the moment, however, I'll send you a message to your inbox. You're right, I do know exactly what its like to be an Atheist. I'm a former Agnostic Atheist bro, and if you want to discuss the existence of God, and the evidence for Islam, we shall do so. But first, we're going to finish this discussion as you've raised many unwarranted points. Until then, take care.
@spacecowboy95 I disagree. You assume that my reasons for rejecting other conceptions and depictions of "God" have the same value as your reasons for rejecting the Islamic concept. Also, you fail to understand that the Islamic concept of God affirms the Abrahamic God of Judaism and Christianity, although their are some serious differences in how God is conceived due to the distortion of theological understanding in Christianity and Judaism. Mainstream stereotypes are also influential.
@ManifestationOfTruth I would first have to inquire if you even understand the Islamic concept of God correctly, as you've made many statements Atheists normally do when debating Christians (just as I once did). For instance, making comparisons between "God" and invisible unicorns, fairy's etc. (all of which are materialistic in nature, or if they existed, would be encompassed by the physical universe, and thus, we should expect empirical evidence for their existence).
@ManifestationOfTruth@ManifestationOfTruth Let's get something straight. I don't believe in an Anthropomorphic "God". Islam wholeheartedly rejects this concept, and if you even bothered to study a bit of Islamic theology and read the Qur'an, you'd know this. Refer to Surah Al-Iklas which summarizes this position. You already acknowledge the embodiment of the laws that govern the Universe. The difference between you and I, is that I consider this "Being" to embody some level of consciousness.
@ManifestationOfTruth "You already acknowledge the embodiment of the laws that govern the Universe. The difference between you and I, is that I consider this "Being" to embody some level of consciousness"
Where did you get "being" from? And what evidence is there that this being exists? You cant just skip this point and jump to the assertion that it has consciousness.
@spacecowboy95 When I say "being" I'm implying some state of existence, not necessarily an anthropomorphic entity. The universe as a whole follows patterns and is contingent upon laws and a mathematical formulas which describe these laws. A deistic idea of God is that "He" is the embodiment of these laws. As a Muslim, I can understand this, however, I would argue that their are better reasons to maintain that such an embodiment would encompass some form of consciousness. You sound as if [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth you hold a preconcieved notion of what consciousness is. If this is the case, then know that even Neuroscientists have yet to establish a well-defined understanding of consciousness and all that it is. My basis for concluding that Allah is Conscious as opposed to being merely a mechanical set of laws that govern the universe rests on a) the Qur'an (which can be proven to have a divine origin) b) the very existence of consciousness itself c) the fine-tuning of the [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth universe, d) the irrationality of an infinite regress thereby negating an eternal universe - which entails an eternal single cause that must necessarily be timeless, which can be deduced through logic. I won't get into this now, we're going to focus on this political debate first. If you want to examine my points more thoroughly, refer to Hamza Andreas Tzortzis and type in "inimitable Qur'an" in google.
Dont attempt teleological arguments with me, all of them are fallacious. I could just as well point to aspects of the universe which arent fine tuned for anything, or are in fact poorly tuned. Like our sun which will explode cooking our planet, of the andromeda galaxies collision with our own, or the fact that we have molars and appendixes etc etc. Some design your god has created...
@spacecowboy95 You didn't quote what I said entirely. Your words made it seem to me as if you felt that such a being (embodiment of laws...) couldn't be conscious. I mentioned that IF this was the case then etc. As for the proof, certainly, first view theinimitablequran presentation. And then more will follow.
@ManifestationOfTruth And yes, the doctrine of Islam, particularly the doctrines of martyrdom and jihad ARE included in the text in black and white. All you need to do is listen to an interview with a suicide bomber or member of another terrorist organisation and they will read them aloud to you. But your best response to this is to simply turn your back and say "its not valid, they are wrong and I am right", and as ive said before, they would say the exact same thing to you.
@spacecowboy95 More empty claims. You don't even understand the doctrine of martrydom and jihad, and yet you cite them as some form of evidence? You have also failed to even provide a detailed analysis of how they legitimately support the actions of such terrorists. You accuse me based on nothing, even though I've provided you with detailed links with the evidence you're asking for. And yet, you're only form of evidence are the personal testimony's of terrorists with obvious political agendas.
@ManifestationOfTruth I've pointed out your errors various times, and all you can do is repeat them. Assuming that I'm simply saying "I'm right they're wrong!" I've actually provided reasoning and evidence for my statements, check your inbox. When they cite verses, the question is, are they citing them correctly? Do they understanding how to cite verses in textual and historical context? Do they have an understanding over the Qur'anic sciences? You're ridiculous argument is tantamount to [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth arguing that, because Christian Creationists cite "science" when discrediting evolution, they are doing so correctly. Same argument, same flaw. So enough of the jargon. Give me actual evidence, actual citations from primary and secondary sources, or rest your case because you're doing a pitiful job. Not a single primary or secondary academic source. Why is it that you're most professional sources are the words of radicals? Do you find them that scholarly? That interests me.
@ManifestationOfTruth I've already illustrated the logical fallacies or your arguments: Person A claims B caused them to do something, and Person A cites B. Therefore, B must have. Premises associated with this which you have failed to even prove are: 1. Person A is truthful 2. There are no other factors influencing Person A (and a bit of political and historical knowledge will trash this idea) 3. They are knowledgeable enough about B to cite it correctly, honestly, and provide evidence.
@ManifestationOfTruth "You don't even understand the doctrine of martrydom and jihad"
Maybe i havent done as much theological study as you have, but that is simply because theology is not something worth studying, theology is like searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything. What you and i both know is the doctrines of M&J DO exist, and i am saying that they have real negative consequenses. Why cant you admit this?
"God and invisible unicorns" - Its very simple, the point is that you have just as much evidence for god as anyone else does for the existence of unicorns i.e zero. But you say that regarding unicorns "we should expect empirical evidence for their existence" Oh right, so with god we shouldnt expect empirical evidence? Is that it? Well I'm sorry but now your argument is unfalsifiable, you say god exists but by your logic there is no way of you actually knowing this. Except through "faith".
@spacecowboy95 I find it interesting how you state this, without even asking me to define my concept of God thoroughly. Atheists such as yourself (NOT all) have a tendency to jump to conclusion, based upon their presupposition of what God is or isn't. With a Being that transcends the universe, no you shouldn't expect direct empirical evidence in the form of "I see God directly!" or "I tasted God literally!" Through examining the Universe, the Qur'an, the life of the Prophet Muhammad, and [cont
@ManifestationOfTruth logical deduction, you can come to the conclusion that the Islamic concept of God is valid. The Qur'an provides its on falsification test, which it has issued to humankind - to imitate it. It challenges anyone, anywhere who doubts its validity, to find errors within it, and to imitate it, Tzortzis elaborates upon this, I've already given you the link. I can know that I had a great grandfather living in the 12th century without a shred of DIRECT empirical evidence.
@ManifestationOfTruth "you can come to the conclusion that the Islamic concept of God is valid"
An argument can be valid and yet the premises still be complete nonsense. And there is NOTHING written in the koran which could not have been written by a tribal desert dweller in the 7th century.
@spacecowboy95 Agreed, the premises can still be complete nonsense. However, I disagree with the rest of your statements, I've already pointed you to the link, it's rather detailed (i.e. google theinimitablequran), so if you actually want a thorough explanation, view it.
@ManifestationOfTruth "You assume that my reasons for rejecting other conceptions and depictions of "God" have the same value as your reasons for rejecting the Islamic concept."
So you disbelieve in the gods of olympus for reasons other than the fact that they are obviosly mythological and unsupported by evidence?
@ManifestationOfTruth "You assume that my reasons for rejecting other conceptions and depictions of "God" have the same value as your reasons for rejecting the Islamic concept"
So you reject the existence of the gods of olympus for reasons other than their being obviously mythological and unsupported by evidence?
@ManifestationOfTruth And no, Reza did not respond well to any of Sams points. First he claimed that religion was a neccessary language through which to discuss spiritual experience. Sam responded by saying that it is as pointless to talk about these experiences in religious terms in the same way it would be pointless to talk about christian physics, or muslim chemistry. Reza's best reply was that science has no monopoly on truth (religion does?) and that it is limited to just physical evidence.
@spacecowboy95 I agree that objectively, it would be pointless to express spiritual experiences in light of specific religions. However, Reza's point was that subjectively this is not the case. Fields of knowledge and study such as the scientific branches of physics and chemistry are far more objective than religious experiences. I don't maintain that any religion has a monopoly on truth unless it brings its evidence to the table. I suggest you look more into Hamza Andreas Tzortzis.
@ManifestationOfTruth "physics and chemistry are far more objective than religious experiences."
And this to you is sufficient reason to not bother understanding subjectivity through evidence based reasoning, but instead to talk about it in superstitious, metaphysical religious concepts???
@spare2288 someone needs to just repost and ban the person who wrote the title from writing. what part of stop giving ahmedinejad power when he's powerless is so difficult to understand are you 14 nanasakkdf whatever your screen name is
I hope the President of Columbia University calls President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld over and spends 10 minutes verbally assaulting him for the injustices he committed against the world.
@MrShockZilla That seriously is one of the stupidest things you could have said...
MrShockZilla it truly is "shocking" how retarded a person can be when they say what they mean and you sir take the cake.
your a moron, I'm sure you'll probably laugh and shrug it off but I hope a small portion sinks in to the back of your head that you seriously are not very intelligent about serious matters.
Reza Aslan is an Iranian piece of shit, he is Iranian-American Shia. Shias are not consdered to be Muslims, Reza Aslan hates arabs and arabic countries in the Arabian Gulf. He wants Iran to take control over the region and the Arabian Peninsula. Reza Aslan is Persian Shia Facists and mouth piece for the Shia Iranian Regime in America
When does the bullshit start? When does Aslan reveal himself as insane? In this snippet he gave a well reasoned argument and spoke true. Is there something I'm missing?
You say it, many Iranians think like Aslan on this particular issue.
I always thought that in the same way as Ahmadinejad has actually helped Israel by cursing them, in the same way the international community has boosted Ahmadinejad with their reactions. No wonder all other dictatorships love that guy so much. If there hadn't been so much fuss about him in the first place, he maybe wouldn't have been renominated for presidency and MOST important, Iran's economy would have improved.
The thing is, it's exactly what Ahmadinejad wants, as well as people who benefit from instability in that region (and by instability, I mean having a tyrannical leader).
Quote: "A dictator" gives Ahmandinejad FAR more credit than he actually deserves. He's a completely powerless person; NOT in charge of the army, budget etc; A "Completely powerless figurehead..".
In stark contrast: "We should focus on the "..lack of human rights under HIS R'egime". Ahmandinejad HAS caused economic collapse and HIS rhetoric has ESSENTIALLY isolated Iran. Whaat?
Mr. Aslan, ..I'm confused. According to you (sarcastic), this man has NO control.
Also, the "Human Rights" argument is virtually pointless; there were a lot of human rights violations under the Shah, but he was imposed by the United States. You didn't hear anyone go on about human rights violations back then.
Oh yeah, for sure. I think most of the leaders in the past 50 years have pretty much been dictators (monarchies ARE dictatorships essentially). I hate it when Iranians want to go back to a monarchy....I think it's rediculous.
Anytime a great leader for the country has come in, they've been taken out by either the British or the U.S.
in many ways true, yet inappropriate.... what a fool....
jarogehotmail 2 months ago
Does anyone even know what Sharia is? Holy shit.
jakemonostereos 3 months ago
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jakemonostereos 3 months ago
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Aslan is an apologist and is welcome Iran because of it. His book No god but God is a perfect example of whitewashing the violent and unsupportable aspects of Islam. The book has very little academic documentation,,,the first sign of poor scholarship.
greenarcher180 3 months ago
"In Iran we don't treat our guests this way - we kidnap and murder them. Frankly we don't get a lot of guests these days."
Asslan is a hack.
Dilky01 4 months ago
Listen to Reza speak a few times. He contradicts himself at least 3 times.. He starts with saying we shouldnt have been so rude. THen at the end he says we should mock him.. What is it Reza???
IslamISsick1 5 months ago
Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.
IslamISsick1 5 months ago
@IslamISsick1 The same can be said about Christianity.
jakemonostereos 3 months ago
the president of iran is actually very clever and he should be given respect
MrHasssssss 6 months ago
@MrHasssssss Yes, if you believe psychotic towel-head muslim pieces of shit are "clever"... Typical uneducated muslim idiot.
DLarson1083 1 month ago
@DLarson1083
Shut the fuck up you little bitch. Hitler and Ahmadinijab are NOT the same. Get some sense into you and stop embarrassing Americans.
auzer1000 3 weeks ago
WTF is wrong with people. Just compare the deaths caused by USA and the ones caused by Iran its not that hard. USA meddles with every country in the world and simply wants to be the most powerful country in the world by creating nukes.
soycd10 6 months ago 2
The person who selected this video tittle did a piss poor job. Reza speaks the truth. The president of Iran IS nothing more than a figure head. Equating him to Hitler is ridiculous.
revo1974 6 months ago 2
The title for this video is EXTREMELY misleading. If you actually clear your mind and LISTEN to what Anderson and Reza are discussing, you too would agree with them. People like the uploader of this video seem to be selective in what they hear and transfigure it to fit their picture of others.
xChillDude 9 months ago
"I I think we should knock off all the silly Hitler analogies" - That is all Reza said. The name of this video is very misleading...
SmogHouseTradingCo 11 months ago 32
Columbia's President is right on. He should never have been invited to speak.
oliverdavidanderson 11 months ago
@oliverdavidanderson well they invited him, but you should not dis him in the language he does not speak it shows you how disrespect we are, look at oxford they invited a Muslim imam didn`t make it because of UK not leting him in, and the media called him terrorist , but the still did live Q&A from his studio, to the school library, respect stick to your pricipal
VideoOpEd 11 months ago
I don't think there is anything wrong what Reza actually says. Well, there are obviously minor disagreements but I don't think he is wrong all the way!
trekraah 11 months ago
Ahmedinejad isn't hitler. Come on! how many Jews did he bake? None!
alihammadshahX 1 year ago 14
@alihammadshahX He's evil and deranged like Adolf.
chrishanna236 1 year ago
@chrishanna236 what you said adolf is good? OHK!!!
alihammadshahX 1 year ago
@alihammadshahX Adolf was an evil man with a sick mind. Like the Iranian president.
chrishanna236 1 year ago
@chrishanna236 I know Bush is Adolf's secret son. According to one conspiracy Jews killed eachother, it was a sectarian violence that happened in Germany. I agree.
alihammadshahX 1 year ago
@alihammadshahX We're not talking about Bush or the Holocaust.
chrishanna236 1 year ago
@alihammadshahX How many would he like to bake? ALL. Now fuck off you ignorant towel-head fool.
DLarson1083 1 month ago
The funniest thing in all this is that people generally call Islam violent, but yet, they haven't even bothered to read the Quran. It's really an identity crisis whereupon non-Muslim Europeans and North Americans attempt to find themselves by pointing at the "others." They speak of the "virtues" of the west and what-not as well "western civilization," but those things don't really mean anything.
Katyusha666 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Katyusha666 Are you Muslim?
chrishanna236 1 year ago
@Katyusha666 I've read the koran. Its a violent book. There is no debate. Islam IS a religion of violence, not peace.
In fact the violent verses abrogate AND outnumber the peaceful ones.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 You described all three of the major faiths, not just the Koran, maybe you should look at yourself.
SmogHouseTradingCo 11 months ago
The "Petty and Cruel dictator" remark seemed so contrived. If only Columbia University treated all the petty and cruel dictators in world this way, then they could be described as principled and sincere. But they wont. Saudi donations, for one, will not arrive at the University (as they have done) if Saudi Arabia's petty and cruel record is brought up.
DahbiArb 1 year ago
True yet inappropriate? How can a criminal have a moral high ground? Peripheral thing, denial of the holocaust? Destruction of Israel?
bhigr 1 year ago
What a pathetic title.
blackstars56 1 year ago
What, so now Ahmadinejad is Hitler's equal? Tararara (insert 4th dimension music here...)...
Pistolero24 1 year ago
Wait how is ahmadinejad responsible for all that is going wrong in Iran if he's just a powerless figurehead? Shouldn't the Supreme Leader be the one who's losing popularity etc. I read that they love Ahmadinejad back in iran too BECAUSE of his incessant anti american stuff.
SteelCitiesFinest 1 year ago
I cant believe a guy like reza actually gets paid to give his nonsense opinions.
The poor guy is well traveled and educated but lacks the intellectual honesty to put his experiences into their proper context.
His latest article in the wash post was really embarrassing.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95
i can't believe your mama likes to lick my balls all night long.
MrRightAllTime 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Nonsense opinions? Which comment in this video do you disagree with? He was spot on and it only takes an hour of personal research in reputable conservative and liberal think tank sources to realize that Ahmadinejad indeed is a rather weak politician inside Iran. Heck Rafsanjani is MUCH more powerful than Ahmadinejad in Iran!
lakeshow499 1 year ago
@lakeshow499 Im not disputing technical influence Ahmadinejad may or may not have in Iran. i think that its a rather irrelevant point either way. He is an international figure who speaks on the behalf of a state, he is uncooperative with IAEA, and happens to think the holocaust never happened. However Reza seems to think these are less important points.
Have you read any of Reza's work? Seen his debates? He is a pathetic hack of a journalist in my opinion.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 He does not dictate Iran's policy toward IAEA. Anyway, Reza is spot on that his radical viewpoints are irrelevant. It is only the media who dangerously overstates the relevancy of those absurd comments and his capacity to act on them. Of much greater importance is the words of the Supreme Leader which dictate policy. As someone who travels to Iran, I must say, Reza is actually usually spot on in his assessment of Iranian domestic politics. Ahmadi does not deserve the coverage.
lakeshow499 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 You're good at making claims, now perhaps you'll provide solid reasoning to support said claims?
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Ahmadinejad clearly influences public opinion in a negative way, Aslan is not making any point other than to say that Ahmadi doesnt deserve coverage, why? The guy is clearly a lunatic and is the face of an entire nation in the international community.
Aslan is another half baked journalist and an apologist for islam who cant bring himslef to admit that religion is the real poison of the middle east.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 As others have pointed out, Ahmadinejad may influence public opinion to an extent, but he's much more of a pawn then you think. The Guardian Council and Supreme Leader of Iran also clearly influence the country. The question is, who has more influence? If you've studied any of the history associated with Muslim majority middle eastern countries, including Saudi Arabia, you'll realize that most of their "dictators" and leaders are pawns or linked to international elitists.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Your bias is apparent in your conclusion: do you honestly think Reza Aslan was useless against Harris? I've seen the entire debate several times in the past, so I won't bother reviewing it now. It should be noted that I've watched it while I was an Agnostic Atheist, and afterwards, when I reverted to Islam. I never once doubted Reza's intelligence, he responded to Harris rather well. He even presented evidence demonstrating how Islam is not a monolithic religion.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth I don't believe Harris even responded to this thoroughly, other than making generalizations about "Islam" and taking verses out of the Qur'an, devoid of any historical or textual context. Mind me, I do find Harris intelligent. I believe this was during the portion where Reza referred to the Latin American conception of Christianity (Jesus being viewed as a warrior). Anyways, I'm interested in your opinion - what leads you to believe Harris "owned" him so badly?
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Sam's thesis is simply stronger. Beliefs inform actions, and it is inclredibly easy to read the koran in such a way so as to justify the actions of terrorists. Whether or not you think these interpretations are the "correct" ones is irrelevant. you cannot claim to posess the true meaning of the koran any more than a member of al queda. Reza is just an obscurantist who is out to defend religion even when it is obviously divisive and above all... pointless.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Had you actually studied the Qur'an, the science of Hadith, and the Qur'anic sciences, you'd realize your argument has holes. First of all, can you point me to a single member of such terrorist organizations that can compose an intelligent argument which supports their interpretation? So far, I have seen none, other than the same poor attempts at citing verses completely out of context, without the necessary knowledge of historical and textual context, classical Arabic etc. [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Thus, your agument is false, as it assumes that my interpretation and a terrorist's are equal in validity (which is determined by their knowledge of what I've mentioned, and ability to formulate rational arguments, which they seem to lack). Take world class scholars like Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, or intellectuals such as Hamza Andreas Tzortzis, and you'll notice the difference between an educated Muslim, and a closed minded radical.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth You are no different from Reza, you dont want to admit that the koran itself is a book which has specific doctrines of violence which are influencing a large number of people in a negative way. Your faith in the religion is preventing you from admitting that the religion itself is a part of the problem.
If tommorow, everyone in the middle east woke up as atheists, no concepts of Shia or Sunni, no tribalism. Would the rate of suicide bombing go up or down???
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 That depends on another question: If everyone in the Middle East woke up as atheists, with no concept of Shia or Sunni or tribalism, would the Jews give the Palestinians their land back? Would Western countries stop supporting brutal dictators?
It's funny how biased you are. You think being atheist makes you reasonable. Yet you don't even mention Judaism or Christians religions disappearing as well. Your atheism only makes you more arrogant and self-assured in your own beliefs.
sodapoprags 1 year ago
@sodapoprags I would think tha if no one in the middle east believed that god worked as a real estate agent and promised them a special patch of land, there would be less to fight over. Ask yourself why the Jews wanted palestine to begin with? And not say, Kenya. Ive never said that atheism makes people more reasonable, most reasonable people are atheists however. I'm simply saying that it guards against specific behaviour like blowing yourself up in the name of your imaginary friend.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth There are countless mullas throughout the muslim world who can quote the koran and hadiths verbatim to support their views, and millions of muslims pay attention. Just a week ago a girl at a university in my city tried to murder a politician because she was influenced by Anwar al-Awlaki lecutres on youtube.
But instead of confronting this problem your best answer is to simply say "they are not smart, they have it wrong, I have it right". And they would say the same to you
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I'm going to have to look into this Anwar's lectures to see what kind of evidence he cites. There are also countless Scholars with valid degrees in Islamic Studies from prestigious Islamic Universities condemning such "Mullahs" who have been conditioned by the forces of politics, culture, and bigotry. I should remind you of a quote by the Prophet Muhammad, who described many of the "scholars" of the "end times" as being the worst of creatures (for their lack of understanding).
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth The question is, are they providing accurate evidence, and following the examples of pious Muslim Caliphs who were far more merciful to other religious views than much of Christendom? In Baghdad, Muslims hosted dialogues between Atheists, Christians, Polytheists, Deists etc. I have never denied that a problem exists, however, there's not much a 17 year old such as myself can do other than educate his fellow classmates, volunteer with local intellectual movements [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth charitable organizations, and engage in studying these matters. Perhaps when I'm older and have more influence, hopefully I'll do something about such things. Your argument, again, rests upon the assumption that the evidence they bring forth is equally valid as the evidence brought forth by Muslim scholars against their position. This is simply not true, as has been demonstrated by plenty of Muslim intellectuals such as Hamza Andreas Tzortzis, Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad etc.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth I'm going to have to see specific arguments from such people, in order to respond to them. Secondly, you cite an instance where a Muslim commited something bad, because of the influence of Islam. By the same token, I can cite something (founded upon rational principles) positive: watch?v=KQC4bu3qd2w. Secondly, I am just like Reza, because I fail to see how the Qur'an legitimately, advocates the actions of such terrorists. Show me how.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Further, your example is fallacious. You assume that because Atheism would not promote suicide bombing (presuming that Islam at the root is the cause of this), replacing the problematic concepts of Islam in the middle east with Atheism, would apparently be the solution? If Atheism is true, certainly, if not, then no. Secular states and ideologies have their fair share of violence, which were committed to further such ideologies.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth On a final note, The main issue is, you disregard all other factors that can contribute to such practices. I should finish off by saying, my position isn't that we shouldn't bother understanding subjectivity (our religious experiences or spirituality) objectively, my position is, that religion in general expresses an important metaphor about human existence. Of course, an objective explanation of reality is always going to be more valuable and worthy than a subjective one.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Im not presuming that the doctrines of islam cause suicidal violence, I know they do. How? Because Bin Laden and the would be suicide bombers tell the world in their clearest voices that they do these things because of what the koran says. You are just reluctant to admit that these murderers have a very plausible interpretation of the koran and hadiths, and you would be forced to split hairs to debate them. Have you even read the koran? Would you like me to quote?
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Check your inbox, I've sent a response to these comments. I'll post a few more here though. It's rather arrogant of you to assume you "know" Islam sanctions such actions without providing a shred of evidence. You're logic here is poor as you assume that because Bin Laden makes a statement, therefore the statement must be true. Numerous factors are omitted in making such a claim. If you're really interested, I've provided a detailed paper which analyzes Bin Laden's interpretation.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth And it is not a matter of whether atheism is "true", because we could never know such a thing anyway. I cant prove there is no god just like i cant prove there are no unicorns. Atheism simply means you lack belief in gods, so i'll ask you again, if suicide bombers in the mid east stopped believing the koran was written by god, or that there even was a god, would they still go around blowing themselves up with korans strapped to their chests?
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Or I could ask you another question and switch the religion around. In Nigeria, little children are being buried alive and babies are having acid spilt on them because the christian preachers there say that that these children are witches. Its basically a modern day witch hunt.
Now if these people in Nigeria stopped believing in christianity and witchcraft, would they still go around torturing children as witches? Yes or No?
Watch this /watch?v=j0pxN0DuMAE on Islam.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 You don't seem to understand my point. First of all, in order for atheism to be "true", one must not prove the non-existence of God (i.e. proving a negative). One simply needs to show that it is the best position. This wouldn't render it an absolute truth, but we don't have access to such knowledge, now do we? As for your question, I'm not quite sure. The japanese kamakize fighters had no problem, and the samurai also did not hesitate to commit seppuku. [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth No you are confused, in order for me to prove atheism is "true" I would need to demonstrate that no gods exist, not just argue that it is the most reasonable position. Those are two different things. You said that atheism would only be a solution in the superstitious middle east if it were true, but even if atheism werent true, it would obviously be better for people not to pretend to KNOW there is a god and KNOW what this god wants, and instead be skeptical.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 First of all, you're going to need to define "solution" here. The problem with this argument is a) it assumes that Atheism will avoid other problems. The reason I mentioned truth, was because if Atheism was false, it would run into a bigger problem of conflicting with truth. b) it also assumes a rather subjective concept of solution based upon a limited understanding of the problem. (yours). I'll respond to the rest of your points in a later on. Take care.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "First of all, you're going to need to define "solution" here"
Solution meaning people would stop blowing themselves up and hating eachother for religious reasons.
"The problem with this argument is a) it assumes that Atheism will avoid other problems"
When did i say that atheism would solve everything?
How could I disprove the existence of god?
There is not much more to debate, have fun at the party.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I was going by the definition that Atheism is the absence of belief founded upon the lack of sufficient evidence; not that there absolutely are no gods. If the former definition is correct, then by proving that Atheism is the most reasonable position, you are in fact proving its veracity (i.e. it is true that there is insufficient evidence which warrants the lack of belief). This would require an investigation into the various arguments for various conceptions of "God".
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth However, this doesn't somehow entail that Atheism would solve anything. You completely disregard the actual roots of the problem in the Middle East, and the politics associated with it. Why are there suicide bombings? That's a question you've answered with: Because of Islam. Thus far, I haven't seen any evidence. Until that question is answered, how can you determine the solution? Until you identify the root cause of the problem, how can you even suggest a solution? [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth In the message I've sent to your in-box, I elaborate upon this. So I'm going to await your evidence warranting your attacks on Islamic doctrine (i.e. suggesting that it is the cause, disregarding all other variables and factors).
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "You completely disregard the actual roots of the problem in the Middle East" Like? Remember we are talking about islamic terrorism here.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "I was going by the definition that Atheism is the absence of belief founded upon the lack of sufficient evidence; not that there absolutely are no gods"
You are going back on yourself here, you clearly said before that atheism would only work if it were "true". And I have told you twice now I think that it would be impossible to prove that there are no gods. You are confusing the reasons for atheism with what atheism implies about the existence of deities.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I stated this before you even defined "solution", and I presupposed that by solution you meant an end to the greater problem in the middle east, and in fact this world. I do not believe this, for reasons I've provided in my email to you. I maintain that Islam would provide the solutions as it is an ideology with a systematic approach to life, a political and economic system founded upon its spiritual premise.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Atheism isn't even an ideology, which enables humans to deduce the "best way of living" as your left with complete human subjectivity. Given Atheism, morals are subjective, laws are subjective, every human construct is essentially subjective. How will that solve the problem in the middle east, when the root of the problem itself is human subjectivity - a difference in opinion, the inability to understand one another and cease to fear one another.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth So you're left with a sea of viewpoints. The one that is true, if any, is the path to be taken. That is my point - the ultimate solution, not just to the middle east's problems, but to humanity's, would be to accept and live by the truth. The challenge? A) Is there such a truth? B) If so, how do we determine it? This is the core philosophy of Islam - to accept, to submit, and to live a way of life dedicated to "Truth", and finally achieve that state of inner peace.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth And for those who don't want to accept it - that's fine, they shouldn't be forced. However, Muslims, and non-Muslims should live by some common truths, and thereby establish some common ground. The problem is complicated - the most complicated problem that affects us, which the most brilliant minds have contemplated for their entire lives. Who will solve it? We should all aspire to try to, instead of spewing ignorant nonsense at one another.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth And for those who don't want to accept it - that's fine, they shouldn't be forced. However, Muslims, and non-Muslims should live by some common truths, and thereby establish some common ground. The problem is complicated - the most complicated problem that affects us, which the most brilliant minds have contemplated for their entire lives. Who will solve it? We should all aspire to try to, instead of spewing ignorant nonsense at one another. Anyways, I'm done with this.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "And for those who don't want to accept it - that's fine, they shouldn't be forced"
Wow, really? According to your koran allah is the enemy of the unbelievers, i know what you are going to say "where in the koran does it say that?" well...
"gods curse be upon the infidels!' 2:89, "god is the enemy of the unbelivers!" 2:98, "they shall drink scalding water and be punished for their unbelief" 6:70, Fight against them [until] gods religion reigns supreme" 2: 190-93.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Refer to your in box, I've addressed similar verses, and have provided thorough explanations. Afterwords, if you're still not satisfied, I'll respond directly to these ones.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Alright, I've provided you with a thorough list of verses, and evidence to the contrary. I've realized that this dialogue is rather pointless as you're unwilling to educate yourself on these matters. So here's the deal, if you respond with an open mind (and no that does not mean agreeing with me) by actually addressing my evidence, without repeating the same old misinformed views, I'll respond. Otherwise, I'm done with this, there are far more well-informed Atheists.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
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ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Let me know if you actually even bothered to look at the links I've provided, as I'll have you know I've looked at yours. Btw, I ask you to be "open-minded" as you've lied directly to me regarding the early history of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad's mission. This shows me you don't seem to take this seriously, and are glued to your views.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth One last thing. I'm seriously interested if you've ever taken high school World History? I don't mean that as an insult, but if you have, did the curriculum include any units on the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan?
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Actually I studied international relations at university, and no I didnt lie to you about muhammed's violent deeds. Have you ever considered the possibility that the reason you have such a squeaky clean view of your precious prophet and his religion is because you are reading material which was written by other muslim apologists?
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 International Relations huh? Nice. Then, that confuses me even more, that you don't seem to know much about the Middle East conflict and Islam's role. In fact, it took you how long to even cite some verses as examples? You lied about history, my friend. Your summary was completely inaccurate. Either you lied, or didn't know. I'll go with, that you didn't know. I have read from many sources, including Prophet of Doom, and other anti-Islamic books. Its important to investigate.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth Considering how you haven't provided any conclusive evidence suggesting that Islam itself causes those problems (and yet you ignore the positive atmosphere Islam created which caused the Golden Age), you shouldn't make such claims. I've sent you another response. You've missed my entire argument - partly because you're unwilling to understand a simple concept, but hopefully this response clarifies things. With Peace!
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth correction: "you didn't lie about history, my friend?"
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 0dude your such a retard. where do you think non-muslims get their knowledge of Islam prophet Muhammad(pbuh)?? you think they get it from christian sources?? of course not, they get it from islamic and muslim sources. you people like to cherry pick controversial passages of the quran, with a complete lack of understanding of both textual and historical context and the uniqueness of the arabic language.(cont.)
blackstars56 1 year ago
@spacecowboy9 Muslims will interpret Islam like they did for 1400 years, we don't need non-muslims try teach us what Islam is about it. there is no point speaking to people like you, you are determined and adament to slander muslims and islam no matter the truth. i would like to help you udnerstand, as you are completely ignorant, but no one can help you if you have a closed mind like you have. if you want to learn about ISLAM , learn is from MUSLIM sources first, not Robert Spencer.
blackstars56 1 year ago
@blackstars56 Nothing you have said undermines my point, Islam is a religion of violence, its founding text contains numerous passages which can be understood to be sanctions to destroy unbelievers and/or die for the cause of the faith. And since muslims actually believe this book is the word of the creator of the universe, they have more than enough reason to take it seriously. And there are countless mullas in your culture who preach these messages to the next generation of martyrs.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I'm sick of these ignorant bigots. Show me the verses that order muslims to "indiscriminately kill infidels and subject the universe to Sharia Law". Now assuming (which is completely not true) there are violent passages in the Quran that order the killings of non-muslims, we can then conclude that the Quran is a book of violence.
blackstars56 1 year ago
@blackstars56 But we have to apply that reasoning across the board -- that means through violent passages in both the Bible and Talmud, we also have to conclude these books are violent books -- which were displayed in the barbaric events of the Crusades and such.
blackstars56 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth No evidence you have provided disproves my claim that the doctrine of islam contributes to the ongoing violence throughout the middle east and the rest of the world. The best you have done is to simply deny this fact and play a self righteous game by saying that they have the "wrong" version of islam. It doesnt matter to me how long your replies are or who you think agrees with your interpretation, the only thing that matters is whether islam causes people to act violently.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 "Islam causes people to act violently"
No, it doesn't. If you DID receive university education, then that university ought to be shut down for teaching such stupidity.
fandanstan 1 year ago
@fandanstan Yes, Islam does cause people to act violently, just in the same way that belief witchcraft causes people in Nigeria to bury children alive.
You my friend, are in denial. It's simply too difficult for you to admit that specific doctrined within Islam are a part of the problem. People are motivated by these beliefe to act in ways they otherwise wouldnt.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 That's a bold thing to say, since most of the crimes in America is committed by non-Muslims. Hell, just some time ago, a guy (non-Muslim) went into some school board meeting and shot at the members, then shot himself.
Why is it you only look at what Muslims are doing? Why are you ignoring ALL other crimes? That's a dangerous thing to do, and I'm afraid it's the beginning of something worse. Perhaps another holocaust, who knows. Ppl like you are dangerous.
fandanstan 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 "I would think tha if no one in the middle east believed that god worked as a real estate agent and promised them a special patch of land, there would be less to fight over. Ask yourself why the Jews wanted palestine to begin with? And not say, Kenya."
I agree with you on that (and I actually am an atheist). What I was objecting to is the single-minded bashing of one religion when there is more involved.
sodapoprags 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "Atheism isn't even an ideology"
yes there is no dogma, no ideology, no scripture, people are free to think for themselves and behave according to their regular, innate morality, not obey some tribal barbarism as it is written in an ancient book. You know full well that religion does not make a person moral, and atheism doesnt make a person immoral. The difference is that an atheist wont have his morality distorted by believing that god wants him to fight in his cause.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Again, I never stated that Atheists cannot be moral. I'm a former Agnostic Atheist, and wasn't an evil murderer. My position is that, rationally and philosophically, when one is devoid of objective morality, no moral values are objectively true. As such, it is impossible to come to an agreement upon (with the whole world) how we should behave, if we reserve the discussion to our opinions. Further, it is also rationally flawed to say actions we consider wrong, are actually wrong.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "I maintain that Islam would provide the solutions as it is an ideology with a systematic approach to life"
Its funny, islam is spread throughout the middle east right now, and look how much good it is doing. look at countries like saudi arabia where you can be killed for practicing witchcraft, or palestine where you can be arrested for being an atheist, or iran where you can be stoned to death for having sex with who you want. These places are hell holes.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Yes, the Muslim world is in a terrible state. However, as you've done innumerous times, you've overlooked history and politics. No single Caliphate system exists, and most of those countries are ruled by either corrupt Monarchies and Dictators that discriminate based on race (against Islamic practice, thereby bring their credibility into serious question), are in league with the US, or have fallen apart due to the instability of their past.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth As for Islamic punishment, refer to Hamza Andreas Tzortzis' debate: Is Islamic Law Barbaric or Misunderstood? Before judging Islam's view on sexuality (premarital and extramarital) you need to understand the ideology and the system. Judging such things based on your own subjective standards and social conditioning is meaningless.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth And if you are really curious, then yes, atheism is the most reasonable position. It is simply the lack of belief in god. You are an atheist with regards to the christian god, or the god of the jews, or Zeus or Thor or Apollo, we are both atheists with regards to all these gods, you know exactly what it is like to be an atheist, the only difference between me and you is that I believe in one less god than you do.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I apologize, I'll respond to your earlier comments later. I'm at some friends party at the moment, however, I'll send you a message to your inbox. You're right, I do know exactly what its like to be an Atheist. I'm a former Agnostic Atheist bro, and if you want to discuss the existence of God, and the evidence for Islam, we shall do so. But first, we're going to finish this discussion as you've raised many unwarranted points. Until then, take care.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I disagree. You assume that my reasons for rejecting other conceptions and depictions of "God" have the same value as your reasons for rejecting the Islamic concept. Also, you fail to understand that the Islamic concept of God affirms the Abrahamic God of Judaism and Christianity, although their are some serious differences in how God is conceived due to the distortion of theological understanding in Christianity and Judaism. Mainstream stereotypes are also influential.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth I would first have to inquire if you even understand the Islamic concept of God correctly, as you've made many statements Atheists normally do when debating Christians (just as I once did). For instance, making comparisons between "God" and invisible unicorns, fairy's etc. (all of which are materialistic in nature, or if they existed, would be encompassed by the physical universe, and thus, we should expect empirical evidence for their existence).
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth @ManifestationOfTruth Let's get something straight. I don't believe in an Anthropomorphic "God". Islam wholeheartedly rejects this concept, and if you even bothered to study a bit of Islamic theology and read the Qur'an, you'd know this. Refer to Surah Al-Iklas which summarizes this position. You already acknowledge the embodiment of the laws that govern the Universe. The difference between you and I, is that I consider this "Being" to embody some level of consciousness.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "You already acknowledge the embodiment of the laws that govern the Universe. The difference between you and I, is that I consider this "Being" to embody some level of consciousness"
Where did you get "being" from? And what evidence is there that this being exists? You cant just skip this point and jump to the assertion that it has consciousness.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 When I say "being" I'm implying some state of existence, not necessarily an anthropomorphic entity. The universe as a whole follows patterns and is contingent upon laws and a mathematical formulas which describe these laws. A deistic idea of God is that "He" is the embodiment of these laws. As a Muslim, I can understand this, however, I would argue that their are better reasons to maintain that such an embodiment would encompass some form of consciousness. You sound as if [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth you hold a preconcieved notion of what consciousness is. If this is the case, then know that even Neuroscientists have yet to establish a well-defined understanding of consciousness and all that it is. My basis for concluding that Allah is Conscious as opposed to being merely a mechanical set of laws that govern the universe rests on a) the Qur'an (which can be proven to have a divine origin) b) the very existence of consciousness itself c) the fine-tuning of the [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth universe, d) the irrationality of an infinite regress thereby negating an eternal universe - which entails an eternal single cause that must necessarily be timeless, which can be deduced through logic. I won't get into this now, we're going to focus on this political debate first. If you want to examine my points more thoroughly, refer to Hamza Andreas Tzortzis and type in "inimitable Qur'an" in google.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth re the "fine tuning of the universe"
Dont attempt teleological arguments with me, all of them are fallacious. I could just as well point to aspects of the universe which arent fine tuned for anything, or are in fact poorly tuned. Like our sun which will explode cooking our planet, of the andromeda galaxies collision with our own, or the fact that we have molars and appendixes etc etc. Some design your god has created...
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Interesting, remind me to respond to this in depth later on, after our discussion the "violent Islam!"
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "you hold a preconcieved notion of what consciousness is"
I never said i knew what consciousness was, you implied you did by claiming that this "being" was conscious, so prove it....
Where is your evidence?
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 You didn't quote what I said entirely. Your words made it seem to me as if you felt that such a being (embodiment of laws...) couldn't be conscious. I mentioned that IF this was the case then etc. As for the proof, certainly, first view theinimitablequran presentation. And then more will follow.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth And yes, the doctrine of Islam, particularly the doctrines of martyrdom and jihad ARE included in the text in black and white. All you need to do is listen to an interview with a suicide bomber or member of another terrorist organisation and they will read them aloud to you. But your best response to this is to simply turn your back and say "its not valid, they are wrong and I am right", and as ive said before, they would say the exact same thing to you.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 More empty claims. You don't even understand the doctrine of martrydom and jihad, and yet you cite them as some form of evidence? You have also failed to even provide a detailed analysis of how they legitimately support the actions of such terrorists. You accuse me based on nothing, even though I've provided you with detailed links with the evidence you're asking for. And yet, you're only form of evidence are the personal testimony's of terrorists with obvious political agendas.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth I've pointed out your errors various times, and all you can do is repeat them. Assuming that I'm simply saying "I'm right they're wrong!" I've actually provided reasoning and evidence for my statements, check your inbox. When they cite verses, the question is, are they citing them correctly? Do they understanding how to cite verses in textual and historical context? Do they have an understanding over the Qur'anic sciences? You're ridiculous argument is tantamount to [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth arguing that, because Christian Creationists cite "science" when discrediting evolution, they are doing so correctly. Same argument, same flaw. So enough of the jargon. Give me actual evidence, actual citations from primary and secondary sources, or rest your case because you're doing a pitiful job. Not a single primary or secondary academic source. Why is it that you're most professional sources are the words of radicals? Do you find them that scholarly? That interests me.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth I've already illustrated the logical fallacies or your arguments: Person A claims B caused them to do something, and Person A cites B. Therefore, B must have. Premises associated with this which you have failed to even prove are: 1. Person A is truthful 2. There are no other factors influencing Person A (and a bit of political and historical knowledge will trash this idea) 3. They are knowledgeable enough about B to cite it correctly, honestly, and provide evidence.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "You don't even understand the doctrine of martrydom and jihad"
Maybe i havent done as much theological study as you have, but that is simply because theology is not something worth studying, theology is like searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything. What you and i both know is the doctrines of M&J DO exist, and i am saying that they have real negative consequenses. Why cant you admit this?
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
"God and invisible unicorns" - Its very simple, the point is that you have just as much evidence for god as anyone else does for the existence of unicorns i.e zero. But you say that regarding unicorns "we should expect empirical evidence for their existence" Oh right, so with god we shouldnt expect empirical evidence? Is that it? Well I'm sorry but now your argument is unfalsifiable, you say god exists but by your logic there is no way of you actually knowing this. Except through "faith".
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I find it interesting how you state this, without even asking me to define my concept of God thoroughly. Atheists such as yourself (NOT all) have a tendency to jump to conclusion, based upon their presupposition of what God is or isn't. With a Being that transcends the universe, no you shouldn't expect direct empirical evidence in the form of "I see God directly!" or "I tasted God literally!" Through examining the Universe, the Qur'an, the life of the Prophet Muhammad, and [cont
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth logical deduction, you can come to the conclusion that the Islamic concept of God is valid. The Qur'an provides its on falsification test, which it has issued to humankind - to imitate it. It challenges anyone, anywhere who doubts its validity, to find errors within it, and to imitate it, Tzortzis elaborates upon this, I've already given you the link. I can know that I had a great grandfather living in the 12th century without a shred of DIRECT empirical evidence.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "you can come to the conclusion that the Islamic concept of God is valid"
An argument can be valid and yet the premises still be complete nonsense. And there is NOTHING written in the koran which could not have been written by a tribal desert dweller in the 7th century.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 Agreed, the premises can still be complete nonsense. However, I disagree with the rest of your statements, I've already pointed you to the link, it's rather detailed (i.e. google theinimitablequran), so if you actually want a thorough explanation, view it.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
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@ManifestationOfTruth "I find it interesting how you state this, without even asking me to define my concept of God thoroughly"
I find it interesting that no two religious people have the same definition of god, define your god and then prove its existence,...
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
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@ManifestationOfTruth "You assume that my reasons for rejecting other conceptions and depictions of "God" have the same value as your reasons for rejecting the Islamic concept."
So you disbelieve in the gods of olympus for reasons other than the fact that they are obviosly mythological and unsupported by evidence?
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ManifestationOfTruth "You assume that my reasons for rejecting other conceptions and depictions of "God" have the same value as your reasons for rejecting the Islamic concept"
So you reject the existence of the gods of olympus for reasons other than their being obviously mythological and unsupported by evidence?
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth And no, Reza did not respond well to any of Sams points. First he claimed that religion was a neccessary language through which to discuss spiritual experience. Sam responded by saying that it is as pointless to talk about these experiences in religious terms in the same way it would be pointless to talk about christian physics, or muslim chemistry. Reza's best reply was that science has no monopoly on truth (religion does?) and that it is limited to just physical evidence.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@spacecowboy95 I agree that objectively, it would be pointless to express spiritual experiences in light of specific religions. However, Reza's point was that subjectively this is not the case. Fields of knowledge and study such as the scientific branches of physics and chemistry are far more objective than religious experiences. I don't maintain that any religion has a monopoly on truth unless it brings its evidence to the table. I suggest you look more into Hamza Andreas Tzortzis.
ManifestationOfTruth 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth "physics and chemistry are far more objective than religious experiences."
And this to you is sufficient reason to not bother understanding subjectivity through evidence based reasoning, but instead to talk about it in superstitious, metaphysical religious concepts???
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@ManifestationOfTruth watch?v=5og-hyD3A7A - Have a look at how useless he is when faced against a person with a real thesis like Harris.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
can someone repost this with a sensible title?
spare2288 1 year ago 7
@spare2288 someone needs to just repost and ban the person who wrote the title from writing. what part of stop giving ahmedinejad power when he's powerless is so difficult to understand are you 14 nanasakkdf whatever your screen name is
shipoopie0101 1 year ago
Ahmadinejad said that "there are no gays in Iran...no such thing" lol
I found that really funny !
AIMANALI 1 year ago
Reza actually has a brain in his head... and uses it. Reza knows his stuff and more people need to read his books.
DrummerBoyJason 1 year ago 5
I hope the President of Columbia University calls President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld over and spends 10 minutes verbally assaulting him for the injustices he committed against the world.
veggiewarriors 1 year ago 8
@veggiewarriors
the President of Columbia is a fucktard talking a a guest like that, I mean let me think for myself already.
MrRightAllTime 1 year ago
Reza Aslan is a good man.
drewskione 1 year ago 23
How is Reza Aslan "insane"? He seemed very reasonable here.
LunaSol29 1 year ago 17
"in iran we dont treat our guest like that "
well whatever ahmadinejad is, but this one is true
gunit8590 2 years ago
True...Blaming Ahmadinejad as a Hitler is crowning him whatever the title is !
metaldigger 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Reza Aslan is an Iranian he is a mouth piece for the Iranian Regime
MrShockZilla 2 years ago
@MrShockZilla That seriously is one of the stupidest things you could have said...
MrShockZilla it truly is "shocking" how retarded a person can be when they say what they mean and you sir take the cake.
your a moron, I'm sure you'll probably laugh and shrug it off but I hope a small portion sinks in to the back of your head that you seriously are not very intelligent about serious matters.
midwest9595 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Reza Aslan is an Iranian piece of shit, he is Iranian-American Shia. Shias are not consdered to be Muslims, Reza Aslan hates arabs and arabic countries in the Arabian Gulf. He wants Iran to take control over the region and the Arabian Peninsula. Reza Aslan is Persian Shia Facists and mouth piece for the Shia Iranian Regime in America
MrShockZilla 2 years ago
@MrShockZilla u mean the PERSIAN GULF, dumb ass!!!
FREE IRAN
cna68 1 year ago 4
95% of the peoples of the world want? to be told what to do, and how to behave.
U. S. created more dead, more orphans, more widows, more homeless, and more tortured under the? name of liberty and democracy than totalitarianism.
BiblesOnLine 2 years ago 2
When does the bullshit start? When does Aslan reveal himself as insane? In this snippet he gave a well reasoned argument and spoke true. Is there something I'm missing?
Rassgatibala 2 years ago 6
Reza is an intelligent fella
mhd86 2 years ago 4
thats kinda funny that he sites C.S. Lewis when his name is Aslan (the lion. king in te llion witch and the wardrobe)
SneakerZeeker 2 years ago
well said reza
houman6a6 2 years ago 2
I have to say, the caption for this video is clearly by someone who is highly ignorant.
Reza Aslan is incredibly critical and rational and offers very intelligent perspectives.
muziquelle 2 years ago 3
I could not agree more with your comments re Reza Aslam. Whoever wrote the caption for this video is a fool.
willhum 2 years ago 2
You say it, many Iranians think like Aslan on this particular issue.
I always thought that in the same way as Ahmadinejad has actually helped Israel by cursing them, in the same way the international community has boosted Ahmadinejad with their reactions. No wonder all other dictatorships love that guy so much. If there hadn't been so much fuss about him in the first place, he maybe wouldn't have been renominated for presidency and MOST important, Iran's economy would have improved.
cheapnonsmoker 2 years ago 4
The thing is, it's exactly what Ahmadinejad wants, as well as people who benefit from instability in that region (and by instability, I mean having a tyrannical leader).
muziquelle 2 years ago
why is reza aslan in inverted commas? lol.
jmals114 2 years ago
Hypocrisy and rhetoric...
Quote: "A dictator" gives Ahmandinejad FAR more credit than he actually deserves. He's a completely powerless person; NOT in charge of the army, budget etc; A "Completely powerless figurehead..".
In stark contrast: "We should focus on the "..lack of human rights under HIS R'egime". Ahmandinejad HAS caused economic collapse and HIS rhetoric has ESSENTIALLY isolated Iran. Whaat?
Mr. Aslan, ..I'm confused. According to you (sarcastic), this man has NO control.
RhonwenOOO 2 years ago
Here's some context: The supreme leader is the real leader and has all the power.
Ayatollah Khamenei
muziquelle 2 years ago
Also, the "Human Rights" argument is virtually pointless; there were a lot of human rights violations under the Shah, but he was imposed by the United States. You didn't hear anyone go on about human rights violations back then.
HaxGah 2 years ago 2
Oh yeah, for sure. I think most of the leaders in the past 50 years have pretty much been dictators (monarchies ARE dictatorships essentially). I hate it when Iranians want to go back to a monarchy....I think it's rediculous.
Anytime a great leader for the country has come in, they've been taken out by either the British or the U.S.
muziquelle 2 years ago