The truth about Honduras situation

[Okinola1]

Excelent!!!

Only Hondurans can understand what happened here, for the the international community is just a theory that that was proven to be imperfect.

While the world defends a principle, in Honduras we defend our freedom.

[ckfastback]

if chavez is soo bad and the other so called "socio-communist" countries... can someone explain why these countries are running surpluses like bolivia, venezuela, and brazil..... and the US and honduras are in a deficit..... open your eyes.... oh dont forget the people vote chavez in.... and that country is better because of it

[georgebushsucksdick1]

If you really want freedom and Democracy force American and international business interests out of your country. America is a country of laws and look at all the crimes we have committed. Laws are used to control and exploit the masses. I fought for the Americans for over 20 years. I was present when April Glasbee told Sadam Hussein to invade Kuwait. I was instructing Somoza's people in blowing up hospitals and schools to create civil unrest. So called Democracy comes at a price. BLOOD!

[cosmicbuddha24]

I would also like to thank you all for helping me better understand the situation in Honduras. In light of this lively discussion, my perspective on the matter has certainly broadened and I now feel I have a better understanding of the events. As I have said below, if Zelaya is truly corrupt then hopefully, he gets the punishment he deserves. I still believe however, that a non binding poll should be conducted under the guidance of a legitimate government when elections are through.

[IceVallejo]

Don't worry. Things get heated up on these kind of arguments.

Truth to be told, I was never interested on politics until this happened. Seeming that the media weas unreliable, I sticked to the Constitution and observe how both sides reacted. People have told me that I "say what the news put in my mouth" while they say what Mel puts in theirs (through the banned media).

But they never get the upper hand while debating and dodge facts with strawman arguments. Who should you trust?

Cheers.

[IceVallejo]

Add to that the fact that many people who used to be knowledgeable (laywers, journalists, teachers, etc) get rabid when talking about this and give up any common sense.

I have gotten insulted for asking them: what are the "conditions for a Coup" or the definition of "de facto"... they just dodge the questions and strawman arguments of how corrupt Mich is kick in. Suddenly, Zelaya is a angel and I have friends in prison for defending him (and I'm a stupid coupist). ^__^

[cosmicbuddha24]

This is an off topic comment about the video itself. I find the part where it says "Imagine if one day you woke up and your freedom and liberty was at risk" kind of ironic considering that the de facto government is engaged in striping people of their civil liberties. Making arbitrary arrests, restricting free speech, suspicious deaths, beatings, random police shootings, media outlets shut down, tear gas, curfews ... sounds like your freedom and liberty are at risk now!!

[IceVallejo]

Now, about the referendum: what makes our country Democratic, is the Constitution. Right?

Untouchable manners inside of our Cons. prevent greedy people from the Executive branch to extend themselves on the spot.

Mel wanted to modify this specific part of the Constitution (this is what the referendum is for), he would be able to re-launch himself after the 4th ballot, and would have probably won (just as he did with corruption before).

[cosmicbuddha24]

Continued from below: Democracy is rule for the people by the people. Democracy means consulting the people on policy matters affecting them. My question is this: What if the people want the choice to have this vote? You are not addressing that question. Why not conduct a fair and just poll just to see what people think? The poll doesn't actually have to change the constitution, but there is nothing wrong with seeing what peoples feelings are on the matter. That's democracy! Don't you get it?

[IceVallejo]

The "oppresive" things you talk about are actually for our safety. If you don't live in here, then you can't begin to understand the reasons why we needed curfews and banning of these anti-ethic media stations (Article 75 works on top of 74, because even if they're free (and they stayed online quite too much time I think), their anti-ethic actions, calls to insurrection, mediatic terror and many similars are reason enough to get through 75, banned).

[REALHONDURAS]

tHERE IS NO ARGUEMENT TO THE SITUATION, THE GOVERNMENT OF HONDURAS ACTED ACCORDINGLY WITH ITS CONSTITUTION. YESTERDAY A THE UN CONCLUDED A FACT FINDING REPORT: SAME AS THE U.S. CONGRESSIONAL LIBRARY HONDURAS ACTED ACCORDINGLY TO ITS CONSTITUTION HENCE NO COUP TOOK PLACE;. I agree with icevallejo, who took the time to point out the facts.

[cosmicbuddha24]

The UN concluded a "fact finding report" . There is no such UN report that lends any legitimacy to your claims. Again, I have wonder where you are getting this information?

The U.S. Congressional Library did issue a statement that stated that the various branches of government were acting in legal accordance. I will grant you that but that still doesn't dispel my original assertion: That Micheletti is no better than Mel and that the people deserve to make a choice about THEIR constitution.

[IceVallejo]

Remember that Article 239 states that just by attempting to modify this specific part knocks you away from the title. Zelaya was warned to stop this "poll" because it goes against this regulation.

Article 373 states that you need approval of two-thrids majority vote from the Congress and a ratification of the same magnitude. Mel tried to do it with the referendum (as if the other branches don't exist) and ceased to be President on June 25, sharp.

[cosmicbuddha24]

Fact: Miceletti did suspend civil liberties and shut down media outlets that were reporting information contrary to the de facto interim governments official story.

Fact: Micheletti did appoint members of the notorious Battalion 3-16, a group responsible for myriad human rights violations, to high level government posts.

Fact: The vote was on whether or not a referendum should be included on the November ballot (If I am not mistaken Zelaya's term in office would have already expired by then)

[IceVallejo]

3rd - Article 75 of our Constitution ALLOWS TO CENSOR media outlets that were spreading false rumors, calls to insurrection, promoting violence, etc... probably you never heard "Radio Globo" or seen "Cholusat Sur", which were not ethic at all.

4th - About Battalion 3-16... you're not giving up all the cake are you? Were did their notorious violations took place? - Mel's father FARM during the 80's. Research a little bit more please, these strawman arguments just drag the subject.

[cosmicbuddha24]

So because these atrocities took place at Mels fathers farm it is still okay for Micheletti to appoint some of the perpetrators to important government posts in his administration. Still sounds like Micheletti is no better then Mel to me. But of course these are "strawman arguments" right. So appointing known human rights abusers to government posts is totally legit so long as we acknowledge that some of (I will elaborate in a moment) the crimes took place at Mels fathers farm. Hmmm

[cosmicbuddha24]

Oh yeah and the reason why I say SOME of the crimes were committed at Mel's fathers farm is because you're" not giving up all the cake either" are you my friend? Battalion 3-16 was in operation under various names since 1979 and it was involved in several human rights cases beyond that one particular incident you pointed out. For instance, Amnesty International estimates that Battalion 3-16 was connected to the "disappearance" of 184 innocent people between 1980 and 1982.

[cosmicbuddha24]

This is a direct quote from you IceVallejo Enjoy: "Were did their notorious violations took place? - Mel's father FARM during the 80's. Research a little bit more please, these strawman arguments just drag the subject." Haha well imagine that!! Actually I now know from research that the killings at Mel's fathers farm were COMMITTED IN 1975 You IDIOT!! Battalion 3-16 formed in 1979!! And YOU'RE HERE TELLING ME TO GET MY FACTS STRAIGHT!!

[cosmicbuddha24]

3rd - Article 75 or our Constitution allows media censorship .... well that is ONE GOOD REASON to hold a referendum to change the constitution then isn't it? lol Censoring media outlets VIOLATES FREEDOM OF SPEECH which is UNDEMOCRATIC ... maybe that's something you ought to look into! But you forgot to mention Article 74: 'The right to freedom of thought and expression may not be restricted by indirect means, such as the abuse of government...."

[cosmicbuddha24]

As you can see I also like to deal with facts and not simply "with fluff and personal opinions" I also like to deal with credible sources. So if I know nothing about what is going on then please enlighten me.

[cosmicbuddha24]

continued from below: shuts down dissent by suspending civil liberties and subverting media outlets that aren't amicable to his agenda. That's not democracy either brother. That reeks of authoritarianism!!

[cosmicbuddha24]

Claps hands!! Wow that was a remarkable job you did of reiterating the legal jargon used to twist the actual intent of the public consultation. Of course the courts and the military don't want the people voting to have an assembly rewrite the constitution it might remove powers that they are currently privy too!! You may be right about Zelaya being corrupt I admit I can't say for sure if he was or not but Micheletti is no better, he surrounds himself with known human rights violators!

[IceVallejo]

5th - You actually think the referendum was a joke, do you?

"Rewritting the Constitution" is FORBIDDEN by the Article 239. The only thing this charade was made for was re-election. Is quite obvious since this idea existed on Mel BEFORE he became a President.

A re-election would kill our Democracy. That's why is forbidden and punished by the Constitution itself.

Mich is no angel himself, but he's not putting a referendum to fuck our Democracy.

[cosmicbuddha24]

How is it possible that the intent was re-election? I already pointed out that this claim makes no sense at all. Do I have to spell it out for you: The actual "referendum" would be on the November ballot. Mel is not able to run for president on the November ballot. Therefore someone else would be elected at the same time that the referendum was being tallied. Therefor MEL = No longer in office, No longer president when an assembly is formed to rewrite the constitution = re-election impossible!!!

[IceVallejo]

7th - This referndum thing is so delicated that other Presidents to-be this November are having second thoughts about it. Enter Pepe Lobo (Nationalist).

He was paid by Mel during this mess and remained untouched during the protests (despise he is the opposing popular candidate who lost before). He insinuated that he would continue Mel's referendum.

After Mel was kicked out, he was asked again about it and he nervously laughed and dodged the subject. ;)

[cosmicbuddha24]

Well no wonder he nervously laughed and dodged the subject he was probably afraid he'd be beaten, thrown in jail or deported from the country if he said "yes I believe that we should have a referendum to see what the majority of Hondurans think about revising the constitution". Look whether you agree with a referendum or not you have to admit that MIch's policies are thus far oppressive and he is not better than Mel.

[IceVallejo]

I made a mistake up there with Mel's father issue (I admit, I'm confusing the years these events took place). Still, I believe that citing Billy Joya as a "example" of how bad this current government is, It's just a strawman argument.

It could be the same as if I say that Mel has Chavez on his back. No wonder why he would be so boosted into killing this Democracy with his "innocent" referendum.

[IceVallejo]

The UN did approve the removal of Zelaya, I'm sending you the article on English language to your account in the form of a PM.

You'll find mostly negative feedback when searching roughly on Google. Fact is that nobody knew (outside of the country) what the hell happened here and they were putting these spooky regulations to keep the apes in line.

[IceVallejo]

95% of the new agreement is signed. Zelaya is not coming back, he's not going to be forgiven for his multiple flagrations to our country (neither his goons) and the elections are going this November 29.

Unless he's able to do a coup (just like his example-to-be, Chavez), he's not going back to power and is going to be prosecuted according to the Article 94 for 18 crimes, including High Treason.

[cosmicbuddha24]

Well it certainly has been a pleasure debating these issues with yourself and others who have been posting here. Please don't take anything I said personally. Its just debating. If Zelaya is as corrupt as you say he is then I hope he is punished to the full extent of the law. I also hope that your people will elect a fair government that has your best interests at heart and that justice prevails. I wish only for peace and prosperity for the people of Honduras and I stand with you in solidarity.

[REALHONDURAS]

What I have stated are not opinions but facts I don't try to hide the truth with fluff and personal opinions.

[REALHONDURAS]

the Military confiscated the ballots put them away in a military base. Zelaya took a mob broke into the base and recovered the ballots. Remember this polling was in no was a scientific accurate polling, it was being supported by Venezuela, administered by Zelaya, and the votes were going to be counted by Zelayas people.

[REALHONDURAS]

Upon hearing of this the Supreme Court stated Zelaya went beyond his power and ability to fire the Military Commander ordering him to reinstate Vasquez. Zelaya of course did not; Vazques was reinstated by the other Branches of government. When the Ballots came in from Venezuela, another illegality considering that the only governmental institution that can legally do pollings is the TSE...

[REALHONDURAS]

I also forgot to mention that the military told Zelaya they could not provide logistical support to his illegal polling because it would be unconstitutional set forth by the Supreme Court. Zelaya fired Vasquez, Shortly after a number of top ranking officers submitted their resignation...

[REALHONDURAS]

To argue this, is to rob Honduras of its own right to auto determination and sovereignty as a nation, and to say that the legal people responsible in Honduras to interpret their own laws where wrong because I dont see it that way. There is no defense Honduras acted accordingly to there laws ...

[REALHONDURAS]

On the same day, the Supreme Court of Justice UNANIMOUSLY voted to appoint one of its justices to hear the process in its preparatory and intermediate phases: that Justice carried out the request issuing an arrest and raid warrant. Two days later, on June 28, 2009 Zelaya was arrested

[REALHONDURAS]

June 26, 2009: the Chief Prosecutor filed a Criminal complaint before the Suprme Court of Justice, requesting that Zelaya be arrested under an accusation of the crimes of acting against the established form of government, treason against the country, abuse of authority, and usurpation of functions...

[REALHONDURAS]

On the same day, the Administrative Court issued a third judicial notification to the President, giving him FIVE DAYS TO INFORM THE COURT what measures he had taken in order to abide by the court ruling. NO ANSWER WAS RECEIVED BY THE COURTS

[REALHONDURAS]

June 19, 2009: The Court of Administrative Litigation ISSUED A SECOND JUDICIAL NOTIFICATION, through that state secretary for the Presidency, to the President, requesting that he ABSTAIN FROM CONDUCTING ANY KIND OF PUBLIC CONSULTATION THAT MIGHT VIOLATE THE COURTS RULING of May 27 and May 29...

[REALHONDURAS]

June 16, 2009: The Court of Appeals for Administrative Disputes UNANIMOUSLY RULED INADMISSABLE THE APPEAL FILED BY ZELAYA, who was represented by a private attorney, against the May 27, ruling of the Court of Administrative Litigation and the May 29, clarification

[REALHONDURAS]

June 3, 2009: The Court of Administrative Litigation issued the first judicial communication, through the state Secretary for the Presidency, asking the President to ABIDE BY THE COURTS RULING.

[REALHONDURAS]

Same day May 29, 2009: Zelaya informed the Honduran people through the Secretary of Defense, which he had issued Executive Accord No. 027-2009, by which he orders that a national public opinion poll be carried out by the National Institute of Statistics. The President also ordered the armed forces to lend logistical and all other necessary support to the National Institute of Statistics

[cosmicbuddha24]

Conducting a "national public opinion poll" is a far cry from actually rewriting the constitution! Answer me one simple question, without invoking a bunch of unproven allegations about Venezuelan infiltration and such, tell me what would happen if the majority of Hondurans voted "yes"? Isn't it better to allow them the choice? If Zelaya was corrupt and he wanted "fix" this election then he is a criminal but why not GIVE THE PEOPLE THE VOTE ANYWAY AND DO IT LEGITIMATELY!

[IceVallejo]

Ugh, your ignorance scares me:

1st - "National Public Opinion Poll": No poll here is run taking your IDs and sinking your fingers on ink, this is a VOTING which wouldn't be refused later.

2nd - FACT: The Article of our newspaper for goverment regulations (La Gaceta) was ALREADY PRINTED with the positive results BEFORE the "poll" took place. The majority of the boxes that would ultimately contain this result WERE ALREADY FULL.

That's why they were confiscated by the Supreme Court.

[REALHONDURAS]

which has been suspended, as any other procedural consultation or question which may be designed to avoid obeying this ruling.

[REALHONDURAS]

May 29, 2009: The Court of Administrative Litigation clarified its ruling, stating that:

Suspension of the consultation ordered on March 23, 2009, includes any other administrative act, whether general or particular, which has been issued or might be issued, wether explicitly or implicitly, by publication or lack thereof in the Official Gazette, which might be conducive to the same administrative act ....

[REALHONDURAS]

May 26, 2009: Zelaya issued another Executive Decree PCM-19-2009, rescinding the previous Decree and ordering a national poll on the same issue to be conducted on June 28, 2009. The next day, the Court of Administrative Litigation issued a ruling ordering the President to suspend the Public Consultation and all acts in its support.

[REALHONDURAS]

May 8, 2009: The Chief Prosecutor, acting as guarantor of the Constitution, filed a lawsuit before the Court of Administrative Litigation requesting that the Court declare the ILLEGALITY AND NULLITY of the administrative act carried out by the Executive Branch under the Executive Decree.

[REALHONDURAS]

March 23, 2009: Zelaya issued Executive Decree PCM-05 2009 ordering a public consultation throughout the national territory so that the Honduran people could vote as to whether, during the 2009 general elections, a fourth ballot box should be installed at the polling stations to decide whether to convene a National Constituent Assembly for the PURPOSE OF DRAFTING A NEW POLITICAL CONSTITUTION. The same decree gave a mandate to the National Institute of Statistics to take charge of the survey.

[cosmicbuddha24]

Continued from below: 1) if the actual choice was intended to be on the November ballot then this would occur during the ELECTION to pick Zelaya's successor. Therefore, the notion that he was trying to extend his tenure as president is false. 2) The National Assembly would have to be selected and then they would convene and decide on constitutional revision. Therefore, it wasn't Zelaya that was attempting to alter the constitution. He wanted to see if an assembly should undertake the task.

[cosmicbuddha24]

Zelaya actually invoked Article 5 of the Honduran "Civil Participation Act" which clearly states: That all public functionaries CAN PERFORM non-binding consultations to inquire what the population thinks about policy measures. The question was whether the people wanted a choice on the November ballot on whether to form a NATIONAL CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY who would revise the constitution. This fact brings two things to light:

[cosmicbuddha24]

Here is a simple reply to you idiots: You claim that Zelaya is maliciously bent on dismantling democracy by holding a referendum i.e. A VOTE. Yes a referendum is VOTE. This VOTE is on whether THE PEOPLE OF HONDURAS think Constituent Assembly should be ELECTED (that's right the assembly would have to be elected by the PEOPLE) . Under Zelaya's proposal, THE PEOPLE of Honduras would VOTE on whether or not to hold an ELECTION to ELECT members of a constituent assembly.

[MrGOLPISTA]

BULLSHIT, si los nangaras quieren el poder haganlo como los guanacos, voten por ese pelon carlos h reyes,NO INTENTEN 4 URNA, CONSTITUYENTE O MAS PENDEJADAS QUE NO LO VAN A LOGRAR DE ESA MANERA Y POR CUANTO A ZELAYA NO ES MAS QUE UN LADRON Y DELINCUENTE Y SI CREES QUE TE VAN A ARREGLAR LA VIDA PREGUNTALE A LOS CUBANOS O A LOS VENEZOLANOS(LOS QUE CHAVEZ NO TIENE EN SU PLANILLA)

[REALHONDURAS]

i ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS:

- WHO WAS GOING TO ADMINISTER THE "vote"?

-where did the ballots come from?

- who was providong logistics to the "vote"?

- who was going to count the "Votes"?

-who was going to give the results of the "Vote"?

[REALHONDURAS]

let me answer my own questions:

- zelaya

-venezuela

-zelaya

-zelaya

-zelaya Now that sounds like a legit democratic voting process doesnt it?? And it was so democratic that zelaya already had 450,000 votes before it even started, wow.

[cosmicbuddha24]

Oh yeah? 450, 000 votes hey? Where exactly did you get that number? Did it come to you in a dream? Oh wait I know where you got it! From the state controlled media in Honduras. Funny thing is Micheletti's government ( which happens to be surrounded by former covert operatives from the notorious Battalion 3-16) seems to have a lot of animosity to media outlets in Honduras which question the legitimacy of this coup. They even went as far as shutting them down altogether... yeah real credible.

[REALHONDURAS]

The state controlled media?? you do realize your arguing a point that zelaya himself admitted to?? either you dont know whats going on in Honduras or you just straight out lie? let me enlighten you on the truth.

[cosmicbuddha24]

Continued from last reply: I can't possibly imagine what motive Micheletti and the interim government would have for say placing evidence at the presidential palace (sarcasm). But perhaps my cynical take on this is unwarranted. You claim that Zelaya himself has admitted his intent to engage in a fraudulent vote but I can't find anything credible to support that assertion either, so please send me these sources and enlighten me.

[IceVallejo]

6th - Search thoroughly on YouTube. Even Mel admitted he won the elections BY FRAUD on one of those censored media outlets (if you check the vote count, he narrowly made it).

The "evidence placing" to me is quite blurry, but since Mel ignores and rather not comment on this subject.

Even so... He wanted to make a new park with revolutionary busts, I wouldn't find "stange" if he went on and made a couple more statues of himself (let alone paintings).

[cosmicbuddha24]

"Even Mel admitted he won the elections BY FRAUD on one of those censored media outlets (if you check the vote count, he narrowly made it)."

If you thoroughly read my comments I never once said that Mel wasn't corrupt. Not once. What I did say was: a) Micheletti is no better than Mel b) There is no way that Mel's intentions were to get reelected in November because that is logistically impossible and c) Why not hold a LEGITIMATE, one that is not conducted by Zelaya, on constitutional change?

[mn8aol]

Cold Play has marxist undertones in what they do. You just can't get away from it.

[mn8aol]

Amen, not everyone is in the dark about the increasing marxist influence. not just there, but here in the U.S. and around the world. Faith, strength and courage.

[strongbadXCP]

Excellent. I am an American and I 100% supported the Honduran military taking action to defend their country from communism. Obama is a disgrace for siding with Chavez on this.

[JosephMartenz]

thanks for that :D we need to kick the ass of chavez and zelaya :D Communism sucks!!!

[chepsoki]

well done great video zelaya a dictator removed!

[TheGwaldemar]

Zelaya is a Power HUNGRY Comunist

Honduras is Free of Chaves CLAW.

[HondurasmyLove]

3) Venezuelan press (telesur) is all over the internet spreading lies about Honduran situation, they are pretending to be Hondurans giving out their opinion or support to Zelaya. Their goal is to confuse the international community. The truth is Hondurans DO NOT want the leftist criminal dictator Zelaya.

[HondurasmyLove]

2) Zelaya DID all the crimes he's accused of, we live here, we were borne here, no one told us this story, we lived it for 3 years, and then we said enough. Zelaya's few followers (who get all the media attention) are being paid, in fact, they have tried to pay our allegiances to support Zelaya and we said NO. NO to communism, NO to terrorism.

[HondurasmyLove]

1) This leftist terrorist (Zelaya) abused and beated up his own people, once his own people defended themselves and kicked him out of the country, he went all over the world, convincing anyone who's ignorant enough to believe him, in his (innocence)

[elka2021]

EXCELLENT!!!

[albercms]

What you guys don't understand is that western media and governments, that you are blaming of not supporting you, are not supporting you to only keep appearance. Social mvmnts can't be stopped in Latin Am. against all odds like religious orgs, business interests and ngos. Masses' suffering can't be ignored. You are being manipulated. I wish you showed the same democratic reflex when contra was being trained in Honduras to be the fierce death machines in Central Am.! Hope it all works out fine

[getbehn]

Nice !!!!!! ZELAYA OUT!

[HONDURASLIBRE100]

VIVA MEL! I VOTED FOR HIM!

[ccoto580]

Buenisimo y VIVA HONDURAS

[Juanvmailbox]

Lie after lie, you think something will remain.