Hey guys go easy. You cannot hope to be an expert with a 3 minute you tube clip. However this shoud be enough to get you into it. Also, this is for musicians who have some experience playing and reading music. If you are one then I really suggest that you "buy" the book. "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" ( peter magadini) Also: polyrhythms come from playing "polymeters" ie: playing in two time signatures at the same time. The results of what you play in those time signatures become "polyrhythms"
@paigebobba No. By this guy's definition it is two pulses played simultaneously. More often it's two (or more) rhythms that each imply a different pulse. This is very common in west african 12/8 rhythms. This means that you can hear the rhythm in two distinct ways. Have you ever seen a "Necker Cube" that can appear to come towards you or away from you depending how you look at it? Well this is the aural equivalent. Since 12 can be divided by either 4 or 3 any 12 beat cycle can have 2 pulses.
Come on, you guys. These clips are out there so that they may assist you with your ongoing musical education. I own this DVD, along with so many other educational materials. Just listen and try to learn something new. By the way, I eat Polyrythms, too for breakfast! What does this mean?
Another thing, is that all polyrhythms EVENTUALLY will resolve; in other words there is a single note where it recollects itself. Getting there is the tricky part. I like how this is done on the drumset, it makes it easy to hear
@MusicalDarkHorse The polyrhythms resolve when they reach a common factor correct? Like a 3:7 would resolve at 21? Correct me if I'm wrong please because I've only been practicing these for about a week now.
to: "MuseDuCafe" Yep, this is not for everybody, that's true. However a 3 minute clip is just an introduction to a very progessive rhythmic concept. I really recommend purchasing the book "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" and to start at the beginning. It is step by step process. BTW Polyrhythms and Polymeter is a "World Music" concept. We are behind in this area but it's there and does wonders for your musicianship - if you play drums only in 4/4 time, or play violin in a symphony orchestra.
The clip above is for all musicians ! However if you play drums or percussion you might want to own The official 26' Polyrhythm Rudiments.These are the original 26 standard snare drum rudiments now re-formatted into six basic polyrhythms. You don't have to master them all to benifit. Go To: cdbaby.com and search: The 26 Polyrhythm Rudiments. Leave an Email Address when you download the introductory cd - Then a PDF file of all 26 Polyrhythm Rudiments will be emailed to you directly.
So what's the difference between polyrhythmic and polymetric music then? It was my understanding that Ewe percussion is characteristically polymetric.
Wow I pretty much just stared i aw the whole time. I really want to learn some polyrhythmic beats on the drums. I only know how to do 1 right now and it's just a simple one.
@LeopoldDavidMusic I do mostly listen to jazz music , i play jazz guitar mostly.I also played classical piano for ... 13 or 14 years now , since i was a kid actually .
but yeah , i do listen to djent a lot . And tons of progressive . And that polyrythm thing is awesome . I use it a lot , since years , in what i play ... And yeah. It's tough to get other musicians to get what i do , sometimes. This kind of video will help me being better at it, and better at explaining it.
Starting polyrhythms from just this clip can be confusing.You need to have some mental concept of the process TRUE but these are rhythms that are really not that difficult .Just trust what your hearing at the very basic level. Reading music also helps but both routes to understanding are valid. I do think, if you are a serious musician it is worth the effort. Also: the book can help - a lot " Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide"
In "Stengah"(for what I know) it's two bars of 11\8 when Tomas plays the cymbal on the second bar on the off beats and it create like a one bar of 11\4,or the divison of bass and snare is like the guitars in each 11\8,you can count it like 5\4 and 6\4, 5+6=11,like Sting's song-"Seven Days"-Vinnie plays two bars of 5\8 when the accent of the second bar is on the off beat-and we get in fact 5\4 bar, and the others do the divison of 5\8
Well,I do understand what you're saying,but Meshuggah,the players doing polyrhythms with each other , it can be may the drums do any signature time and the guitars,other signature time,*or* the bass drum and snare doing any diffrent part and diffrent divison than the cymbal does,mostly 4\4.for example - the and of "Electric Red" - 9\8 and cymbal on 4\4,after 9 bars of 4\4 they are meetting on the down beat.
"fizz225" is correct. This is what is happening with "Polyrhythms an Introduction". Nothing wrong with other concepts but this is what is going on here. "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" (the 1st book) covers it all. "Polyrhythms For The Drumset" applies them to the kit. It can get difficult granted but the concepts are age old in other cultures and do a lot for your musicianship. Get into them and out of them at any time. The study will add "lanes" to your rhythmic highway.
@fizz225 meshuggah does artificial grouping, not polyrhythm. it's not really two simultaneously occurring meters as much as it's stacking asymmetric groups over a symmetric meter i.e. the intro of "Stengah" where there are no septuplets, triplets, or anything of the like- just groups of 5 groups of 21 sixteenth notes and a final group of 23 to come out to 8 measures of 4/4. in other words, polyrhythm is a ratio and artificial groupings (over the bar line) is additive.
Humans don't speak like machines. Our way of talking comes out in various different phrases and that's how we communicate our ideas and information. And we don't even have to think about it. Polyrhythms are the same thing - a natural flow of sound that stems from communication.
I just heard the best tune of my life!. And its called polyrytmi. but i dont understand what it means. does this tune make any sence with its track name? (watch?v=9eyg3QydFhE)
i ve never study music but i play guitar since 20 years (i m 32) and this video is very helpfull for me to understand musicians talking about 6/4 and other. Thank you so much for that, I really appreciate. Music is about feelings but it s nice to understand the theory.
so what happens is that while you play on a time signature you play something else on another time signature though you change the tempo so that for example a bar in 4/4 finishes at the time same with a bar of 5/4 because the tempo here is faster..
@anautumnprayer easy example to understand here. have ur right hand play quarter notes at 120 bpms. and ur left hand play quarter note triplets at 120 bpms. now play em together. ur playing a polyrythme. ur right hand is landing 4 times per meaure. hence 4/4. ur left is hitting 6 times per measure. hence 6/4. they both meet back at the one. the video had a bunch of unnecessary music goin on, which confused me at first, but hopefully my example helped a lil
I think I understand this a bit better now. So polymeter is 2 different time signatures played simultaneously at the same tempo. And polyrhythm is 2 different time signatures played simultaneously at different tempos.
So a polyrhythm can technically be eighth notes on the hi-hat with eighth note triplets on bass drum in 4/4?
Cool stuff. All the Italian folk music on the zampogna I play is in 6/8 over 4. Left hand is playing 4/4 on bass chanter and right hand is playing 6/8 on melody chanter. Polyrhythms aren't just found in Africa. ;)
all you need to know is this... always be aware of the "constant" in the time signature, and then you can do what ever you wish around that and have the insight to make it sound clean and not drowning. Also, come in on time. Sincerely, Mr. Obvious <3
his counting makes it understandable, 1-2-3-4-5-6 1, 2, 3, 4. They wrap back to the starting points on the divisible sections, or dvide it below the number, if the count is 6/4, you have a beat going at 4/4 and one at 6/4, they both repeat and start again every 12th count, how hard is that? He needed a guitarist to accentuate the higher number while he ticked the lower number with the drums. Or just listen to Meshuggah, one of the two.
Mr. Ooger has a point. It can be confusing especially in only a few minutes of a youtube clip. What you need is the book "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" (Peter Magadini). It starts at the very beginning and step by step opens up that world. It's progessive.This clip is more of an advanced introduction - some has to be left out - but it is correct. The book took a few years to put together and has been used by musicians worldwide (but you do need to know how to read notated rhythms)
One must learn the difference between Polyrythm and Polymeter. Yes, one could say that polyrythm is based on different tempos that join up after one bar, (or similar). Polymeter however is just playing different time signatures at the same time but they don't join up after each bar. In Polyrythm a bar of 4/4 could be played in 100 bpm and at the same time you could play a bar of 5/4 in 120 bpm with a different limb. hence the difference.
@fullmetalmc Meshuggah have mastered polyrythems yes, but not like these ones. Meshuggah usually use polyrythems which are just different time signatures over each other, like in Dancers to a discordant system and such. These polyrythems are like triplets and semiquavers at once etc. There is a difference ^^
@Guitareben Meshuggah have polymeters. Different time signatures that after a given amount of bars match up the value of 4/4. So, no they are not in Odd-time as people say they are. They have even admitted it themselves. It's like playing a bar of 9/8 and then a bar of 7/8. Still not odd-time...
@MrElias090295 Ahhh i was under the impression that playing different time signatures over one another was a polyrythem :). Well, thank-you for the info :D
Love this and wish more popular music had more odd time signatures or polyrhythms, but it does not appeal to the general public and it's hard to "Disco" to... ha ha, but great video thanks,
There are so many examples of this in music. Often, you don't even know it's happening, but many familiar rhythm patterns do it. For example, Hark of the Bells is 3 on 2. However,many composers are more in-your-face about polyrhythm. Frank Zappa, for example, relished in it. Watch "Zappa Plays Zappa : The Black Page #1 & #2 " . For the score, google "black_page-batterie.pdf"
I've started polyrhythms for about 4 years now, and it still amazes me how many you can make and learn by just starting them in different partials!!!!
Cliff...that is the best visual example I have ever come across! as I was reading it, I was able to create a mental picture thus helping me understand the concept - Thank you very much for that!
as a guitar player i try to write both guitar parts like this. its almost too hard to use polyrhythms to write a single guitar part with a single guitar...but i can write the rhythm guitar in normal 4/4 and write the lead guitar in 3/4 or 5/4, etc. it gives it a random feel but the music still sounds "normal". its great for writing unique pieces.
@Hydraulacost you should check out bob brozman if you want to practice polyrhythms on guitar, he has some exercises on his website that are really helpful
A polyrhythm is a group of two or more rhythms played at the same time. It's not a single, composite pulse, they're multiple pulses.
Imagine a triangle into a square, both rotating on the same centre at the same speed, but in opposite directions. Their angles meet sometimes, but their sides never join. So is a polyrhythm (a 3 over 4 in this case), whose rhythms have notes in common (based upon a scheme, but here comes a mathematical trip...), but never sound the same. You choose which one leads.
Music is just like anything else: it can be learned. And you have to FEEL it. Sure, read the numbers at first, but after a while you get a better FEEL for the playing.
I think not always one metter goes faster than the other one...eg. 5 than 4 (that happens in Africa, with a lot of percussionists together). But in a drumset the point is that they are two completely different meters and they would meet again on 1 of both meters after the correct number of bars necessary to reach the one.
Does the speed change when your playing polyrhytms? Like lets say someone would was playing 5/4 and someone was playing 4/4. They both are at the same speed and start on 1. Would they then both start on 1 again and meet up after 4 bars of 5/4 or 5 bars of the 4/4? Or is the 5/4 playing faster than the 4/4
Steve, Your last sentence is what is going on here - 5 over 4 -
The 5 is going faster than the 4 and they both meet on 1 at the next bar. Polyrhythms ( ( the term "Polymeter"also applies ) means two different, pulse's going at the same time. Therefore you could also think of it as 4 over 5 . Usually 6 over 4 is a more commen starting point, then 3 over 4 ( 5 and 7 come last ) btw just play one against the other useing your BD or a metronome (as the other) then just play it until you get it !
@BeatScheme well now you're describing a polyrythm over a bar, but you could indeed have a polyrythm over 5 bars of 4:4 or 4 bars of 5:4. You could even have a polyrythm over 7 8th notes of your original tempo if you wanted, and then resolve with a half beat of fill, for example, if you were playing in 4:4 (the "5:4" being quintuplets of septuplets).
@SteveTheDrum I thought it could be either, you can eother play the 5/4 faster or meet up after 4 bars of 5/4 (Or 5 bars of 4/5 depending on whatever instrument you're playing.)
@SteveTheDrum 5/4 phrased over/in 4/4 is different than 5:4 (5 in the time of 4). Think of 5 notes evenly spaced in the time of 4 notes. This can span one bar of 4/4. Rather than Four bars of 5/4 equaling/or resolving in Five bars of 4/4. The speed does not change in 5/4 phrased in 4/4. It does change with 5:4 Five in the time of Four. To play Five notes in the time of Four notes, the Five notes will have to be played faster than the Four notes.
Polyrhythms are really confusing. I can't read music or anything. I'm a drummer that likes to hear what i'm playing. Instead of thinking of the math part. I want to try polyrhythms but I don't even know where to start.
you can't get around it. there are no shortcuts. you have to learn polyrhythms exactly the same way as everyone else. it doesn't matter what you "want" to do.
To be the best musician you can be you have to take things further, learn the math, the theory, whatever. BUT, once you get good all of this becomes second nature and you won't have to think about it anymore, so keep practising!
Being able to read music will open up many creative doors for you.
Just because you're a "drummer that likes to hear what I'm playing" doesn't mean that you'll lose your ability to play by ear if you learn to read. In fact, reading and playing by hear can go hand in hand.
You can't learn polyrhytms if you don't know about reading, time signatures, or music theory.
For Spawn, im not an educated drummer but this might explain in in lay terms at least (hopefully). Imagine you are hitting the snare 3 times (1 measure) and a friend is hitting it 4 times(1 measure). You both count out loud. You will play ur measure 4 times and s/he will play theirs 3 times. That is if you are in 3/4 and 4/4, respectively. Its the common denominator. I am also not an educated mathematician, but I hope that explained something, LOL.
Yes-Exactly! Now imagine that you play your 3 twice as fast - it is now 6 - or each (1) of the 3's in triplets - that is 9 - or each (1) of the 3's broken into 4's - then that would be 12 ( over 4). Now, the thing is to play the 4 on the bass drum and all those 3's on the sd. Your brain then starts going from rhythmic "monaural" to hearing and playing in rhythmic "stereo". The brain has two frontal lobes what we are doing here is expanding them.
I might just pick up the book :). Anyway, what exactly do you mean by playing 5 over 4 until they meet on 1? Wouldnt you already be starting on one if you were playing a 5 over 4? Do you mean, just play 4 and 5 independently? I just need some clarification. Thanks!
Exactly ! they both start on 1 and come together again on 1
(the 5 quarter notes travel 1&1/4 times faster than the 4 quar. notes) that rhythmic ratio is not that hard to hear or play but it does take some practice. however 5 over 4 is not the best place to start. I suggest try 6 over 4 (1&1/2 times faster than 4) or 3 over 4 (3/4 times slower than the 4) both are easier to hear and learn.
Note: Polyrhythms (above) may then be sub-divided into 1/8ths-triplets-1/16ths ( just as you would in 4/4)
Thanks again for the info! And i have taken time to learn 6 over 4. I was just using 5 over 4 as an example. The ones i know are 3 over 4, 6 over 4, 3 over 5, 4 over 5, 3 over 7, and 4 over 7. I'm not exactly sure what time signature to put first. Because with 3 against 4, for example, you can have two different sounding polyrhythms. You can have the 3 as the main pulse or 4 as the main pulse. I would imagine that 3 OVER 4 is a three over a main pulse of 4. Am i correct?
You are correct 3 over 4 would generally be considered as 3 half notes over 4 quarter notes in 4/4. However it could be 3 quarter notes over 4 eighth notes in a bar of 7/8 for example. Then again it could be 4 quarter notes over 3 quarter notes when turned upside down (or in 3/4) . Steve Smith is doing great things with polyrhythms as has Jeff Watts, Bill Stewart, Frank Zappa & almost all African and East Indian drummers + many modern composers. Just stay with it and create some new grooves !!
"polyrhythms the musicians guide" can be found all over the internet. Just type in the name in a search engine; it will give you dozens of sites that sell it world-wide. same for " polyrhythms for the drumset "
i think 3 over 4 and 6 over 4 polyrhythms are very common..it's used a lot in rock. what kills me is the 5 over 4 and 7 over 4 7 over 6 and 5 over 6...i feel like ripping my brain apart..
Yea, 5 over 4 and that kind of thing is crazy shit. I dont know exactly how he learned this but my friend (who is like a polyrhythmic genius) told me a way to figure out any polyrhythm. If it's 5 over 4, you would put the time signature in 4 and write out 16th note quintuplets for every beat. Then you play after every 4 quintuplets-1, 5, 4, 3, 2, and that's one measure. I know that's probably hard to follow, but that's how i can explain it. I could write it out, but not on youtube.
Also, there is an application called quadranome that plays polyrhythms. Of course, i found that out after i learned how to do it the hard way. Just search quadranome on youtube and get the trial. Its really cool to mess around with anyway.
This is a reply to "SpawnofDeAtH5". The systems you mention work, but what I am looking for is; Just play them until they both fit with each other, otherwise you are never really in a polyrhythm.
(ie:) Play 5 over 4 until they both meet on1. Experiment until you hear the 5 and the 4 together as one unit (that goes for all the others as well). Then "stretch out" with those polyrhythms.Your intutive sense of time and rhythmic skills will greatly improve!
I play lots of 6/8 ritmes over 2/8 or 4/8(or w/e it is) my open hi-hat, has a nice tick. I don't focuss much on how to call it though, It would make me crazy :P
ive been a drummer for 4 1/2 years and i was doing this crazy beat one day and didnt know what it was. know i know that it was just a 6 over 4 polyrhythm
@TLDBFH I was doing exactly the same thing! I had my hi-hat looping in 4/4 and my snare on the 2 and 4 while I was playing my bassdrum untill 6. I couldn't get what I was playing bu now I can!
Ancient greeks thought music and mathematics were the same in their core... this Master took that idea to an even higher level, adding his soul in his approach = genius.
Hey guys go easy. You cannot hope to be an expert with a 3 minute you tube clip. However this shoud be enough to get you into it. Also, this is for musicians who have some experience playing and reading music. If you are one then I really suggest that you "buy" the book. "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" ( peter magadini) Also: polyrhythms come from playing "polymeters" ie: playing in two time signatures at the same time. The results of what you play in those time signatures become "polyrhythms"
pinktongues 1 week ago
He is a terrible teacher
YouNoob93 2 weeks ago
So a polyrhythm is just one rhythm played over another? I'm confused
paigebobba 2 weeks ago
@paigebobba No. By this guy's definition it is two pulses played simultaneously. More often it's two (or more) rhythms that each imply a different pulse. This is very common in west african 12/8 rhythms. This means that you can hear the rhythm in two distinct ways. Have you ever seen a "Necker Cube" that can appear to come towards you or away from you depending how you look at it? Well this is the aural equivalent. Since 12 can be divided by either 4 or 3 any 12 beat cycle can have 2 pulses.
djembeweaver 1 week ago
Come on, you guys. These clips are out there so that they may assist you with your ongoing musical education. I own this DVD, along with so many other educational materials. Just listen and try to learn something new. By the way, I eat Polyrythms, too for breakfast! What does this mean?
kbonzie 4 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
Another thing, is that all polyrhythms EVENTUALLY will resolve; in other words there is a single note where it recollects itself. Getting there is the tricky part. I like how this is done on the drumset, it makes it easy to hear
MusicalDarkHorse 2 months ago
@MusicalDarkHorse The polyrhythms resolve when they reach a common factor correct? Like a 3:7 would resolve at 21? Correct me if I'm wrong please because I've only been practicing these for about a week now.
clanbigger4 2 months ago
to: "MuseDuCafe" Yep, this is not for everybody, that's true. However a 3 minute clip is just an introduction to a very progessive rhythmic concept. I really recommend purchasing the book "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" and to start at the beginning. It is step by step process. BTW Polyrhythms and Polymeter is a "World Music" concept. We are behind in this area but it's there and does wonders for your musicianship - if you play drums only in 4/4 time, or play violin in a symphony orchestra.
BeatScheme 2 months ago
This is piss poor instruction unless the student is already half-way into the concept or practice of it.
MuseDuCafe 2 months ago in playlist MuseDuCafe's favorites
good vid. terrible 80s font animation
UnrealOrnament 2 months ago
The clip above is for all musicians ! However if you play drums or percussion you might want to own The official 26' Polyrhythm Rudiments.These are the original 26 standard snare drum rudiments now re-formatted into six basic polyrhythms. You don't have to master them all to benifit. Go To: cdbaby.com and search: The 26 Polyrhythm Rudiments. Leave an Email Address when you download the introductory cd - Then a PDF file of all 26 Polyrhythm Rudiments will be emailed to you directly.
BeatScheme 3 months ago in playlist polyrhythms introduction
i playing bass for 5 year and actually i can understand this !! . i think is because i not have a drum set but i play drum air XD
talobassprog 3 months ago
So what's the difference between polyrhythmic and polymetric music then? It was my understanding that Ewe percussion is characteristically polymetric.
douchefag91 3 months ago
This guy is just awesome.
It's terrifying how many people here are showing their "polyrhythms" obviously having no clue what it really means.
Kalupke 4 months ago
This man is amazing.
BoBz013 4 months ago
Amazing!
edthehead83 4 months ago
This is awesome, but I don't get it
Gagoik 4 months ago
0:30 seconds in "WHAT THE FUCK!!!!"
PeazyG420 5 months ago
My brain just exploded
GoGoNards 5 months ago
1:13 sounds like Click Clack from captain beefheart.
YourZabbas 5 months ago
holy crap!!! thats insane!
13daviscj 5 months ago
i actually kinda get it. the only part i dont get is when he's breaking down the 5/4
oviefofah 5 months ago
Platypus do you mean polyrhythms in general or what he's doing?
pkaiser7321 5 months ago
Thanks a lot.
SuperPais 6 months ago
Wow I pretty much just stared i aw the whole time. I really want to learn some polyrhythmic beats on the drums. I only know how to do 1 right now and it's just a simple one.
THEREALCGHOST 6 months ago
I'm having a stroke trying to make this
platypus2501 6 months ago
still doesnt make sense to me can anyone simplify this a little more for me?? =/
benblackburn2693 6 months ago
In the opening, nice use of agbekor 12/8 bell, totoji in the BD and kagan in the drums -- one of my faves!
Kbosh 6 months ago in playlist peter magadini
M A S T E R
MrDAVIDIANS79 6 months ago
Like this comment if you ended on this video because you listen to "Djent" Bands
LeopoldDavidMusic 7 months ago 80
@LeopoldDavidMusic more likely because of Meshuggah
meryuin 5 months ago
@LeopoldDavidMusic I do mostly listen to jazz music , i play jazz guitar mostly.I also played classical piano for ... 13 or 14 years now , since i was a kid actually .
but yeah , i do listen to djent a lot . And tons of progressive . And that polyrythm thing is awesome . I use it a lot , since years , in what i play ... And yeah. It's tough to get other musicians to get what i do , sometimes. This kind of video will help me being better at it, and better at explaining it.
GroovyGuitar02 2 months ago
Man you gotta be really good to be able to do this stuff... thats why i admire tool
TheFlyingBagels 7 months ago
Excuse me while i clean my brains of the ceiling
xXOhmyfaceXx 8 months ago
I eat polyrhythms for breakfast
drummerjmp 8 months ago 12
someone needs to put that opening into a good metal song
BigRolando 8 months ago
a reply to a comment below by: "leiposuctie"...
Starting polyrhythms from just this clip can be confusing.You need to have some mental concept of the process TRUE but these are rhythms that are really not that difficult .Just trust what your hearing at the very basic level. Reading music also helps but both routes to understanding are valid. I do think, if you are a serious musician it is worth the effort. Also: the book can help - a lot " Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide"
BeatScheme 1 week ago
BeatScheme 8 months ago
i dance in polyrhythms .
REPCLONE 11 months ago
Great and simple to understand. That is why so many people cannot take jazz - they cannot follow too many rhythms played simultaneously.
MissAtlantique 11 months ago
This clip is sooooo bloody helpful in making understanding
poly rhythms & meters simple or simpler. Timing is everything.
This is going to take a spell to learn, but practice, practice, practice.
I try to jam to TOOL, The Mars Volta & old Rush songs to get my
ears and patterns down. I find it's not about speed, but timing
& properly TUNING your instruments. Without the basics all you're
doing is making bloody noise.
Thanks for these clips, they're a God-send.
Cheers! = ]
British0Pixie 11 months ago
8 deslikes all the haters think they know it all i would like to see em playing i doubt they do it better
riaj1982 11 months ago
Who the fuck are the eight dumb people that Disliked this?!?!?!
MaroMeshuggah 11 months ago
@BeatScheme
In "Stengah"(for what I know) it's two bars of 11\8 when Tomas plays the cymbal on the second bar on the off beats and it create like a one bar of 11\4,or the divison of bass and snare is like the guitars in each 11\8,you can count it like 5\4 and 6\4, 5+6=11,like Sting's song-"Seven Days"-Vinnie plays two bars of 5\8 when the accent of the second bar is on the off beat-and we get in fact 5\4 bar, and the others do the divison of 5\8
MaroMeshuggah 11 months ago
@BeatScheme
Well,I do understand what you're saying,but Meshuggah,the players doing polyrhythms with each other , it can be may the drums do any signature time and the guitars,other signature time,*or* the bass drum and snare doing any diffrent part and diffrent divison than the cymbal does,mostly 4\4.for example - the and of "Electric Red" - 9\8 and cymbal on 4\4,after 9 bars of 4\4 they are meetting on the down beat.
MaroMeshuggah 11 months ago
@MaroMeshuggah
and also in "Pravus" or "Ratzional Gaze" solo,and some more
MaroMeshuggah 11 months ago
"fizz225" is correct. This is what is happening with "Polyrhythms an Introduction". Nothing wrong with other concepts but this is what is going on here. "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" (the 1st book) covers it all. "Polyrhythms For The Drumset" applies them to the kit. It can get difficult granted but the concepts are age old in other cultures and do a lot for your musicianship. Get into them and out of them at any time. The study will add "lanes" to your rhythmic highway.
BeatScheme 1 year ago
Nice video.. shows the basic about polyrythms. Now write in youtube search box :
Meshuggah-Pravus
Click the first video you will see for THE REAL introduction.
Premoguys 1 year ago
so if i did quarters on the kick and dotted quarters on snare would that be a polyrythem?
lucariololol 1 year ago
polyrhythms are like fractions! i just learned 2 against 3!
0CarrieUnderwood0 1 year ago
polyrhythms are like fractions! i just learned 2 against 3!f
0CarrieUnderwood0 1 year ago
MESHUGGAH....(write that in the empty box up top...you'll see what a polyrhythm is)
fizz225 1 year ago
@fizz225 meshuggah does artificial grouping, not polyrhythm. it's not really two simultaneously occurring meters as much as it's stacking asymmetric groups over a symmetric meter i.e. the intro of "Stengah" where there are no septuplets, triplets, or anything of the like- just groups of 5 groups of 21 sixteenth notes and a final group of 23 to come out to 8 measures of 4/4. in other words, polyrhythm is a ratio and artificial groupings (over the bar line) is additive.
rosenbluntz 1 year ago 3
Humans don't speak like machines. Our way of talking comes out in various different phrases and that's how we communicate our ideas and information. And we don't even have to think about it. Polyrhythms are the same thing - a natural flow of sound that stems from communication.
Farksisten 1 year ago
I just heard the best tune of my life!. And its called polyrytmi. but i dont understand what it means. does this tune make any sence with its track name? (watch?v=9eyg3QydFhE)
Polyrytmi 1 year ago
i ve never study music but i play guitar since 20 years (i m 32) and this video is very helpfull for me to understand musicians talking about 6/4 and other. Thank you so much for that, I really appreciate. Music is about feelings but it s nice to understand the theory.
tich1978 1 year ago
so what happens is that while you play on a time signature you play something else on another time signature though you change the tempo so that for example a bar in 4/4 finishes at the time same with a bar of 5/4 because the tempo here is faster..
rusvanis 1 year ago
Awesome video. There is a lot of confusion over polyrythms and this is as simple as it gets.
texasguth 1 year ago
I can get the cowbell beat with the hi hat beat from 0:35 but absolutely lost on the beat of the toms.
scylla019 1 year ago
I want to learn this shit so bad but I'm entirely lost... do I need to go back to music basics to understand any of this?
anautumnprayer 1 year ago
@anautumnprayer easy example to understand here. have ur right hand play quarter notes at 120 bpms. and ur left hand play quarter note triplets at 120 bpms. now play em together. ur playing a polyrythme. ur right hand is landing 4 times per meaure. hence 4/4. ur left is hitting 6 times per measure. hence 6/4. they both meet back at the one. the video had a bunch of unnecessary music goin on, which confused me at first, but hopefully my example helped a lil
SyqLAWL 1 year ago
I think I understand this a bit better now. So polymeter is 2 different time signatures played simultaneously at the same tempo. And polyrhythm is 2 different time signatures played simultaneously at different tempos.
So a polyrhythm can technically be eighth notes on the hi-hat with eighth note triplets on bass drum in 4/4?
CherubicGuardian 1 year ago
So is a polyrhythem 2 time signatures played at the same time ?
jaskajr 1 year ago
Cool stuff. All the Italian folk music on the zampogna I play is in 6/8 over 4. Left hand is playing 4/4 on bass chanter and right hand is playing 6/8 on melody chanter. Polyrhythms aren't just found in Africa. ;)
dmarker21 1 year ago
all you need to know is this... always be aware of the "constant" in the time signature, and then you can do what ever you wish around that and have the insight to make it sound clean and not drowning. Also, come in on time. Sincerely, Mr. Obvious <3
dokaflokajoe 1 year ago
his counting makes it understandable, 1-2-3-4-5-6 1, 2, 3, 4. They wrap back to the starting points on the divisible sections, or dvide it below the number, if the count is 6/4, you have a beat going at 4/4 and one at 6/4, they both repeat and start again every 12th count, how hard is that? He needed a guitarist to accentuate the higher number while he ticked the lower number with the drums. Or just listen to Meshuggah, one of the two.
meshuggahfan 1 year ago
heeeee he is my jazz drum teacher
cotuzo33 1 year ago
@Ooger77
Mr. Ooger has a point. It can be confusing especially in only a few minutes of a youtube clip. What you need is the book "Polyrhythms The Musicians Guide" (Peter Magadini). It starts at the very beginning and step by step opens up that world. It's progessive.This clip is more of an advanced introduction - some has to be left out - but it is correct. The book took a few years to put together and has been used by musicians worldwide (but you do need to know how to read notated rhythms)
BeatScheme 1 year ago
One must learn the difference between Polyrythm and Polymeter. Yes, one could say that polyrythm is based on different tempos that join up after one bar, (or similar). Polymeter however is just playing different time signatures at the same time but they don't join up after each bar. In Polyrythm a bar of 4/4 could be played in 100 bpm and at the same time you could play a bar of 5/4 in 120 bpm with a different limb. hence the difference.
MrElias090295 1 year ago
at the beginning it says it keeps the same tempo... but it really sounds like different tempos like @ 3:10
thegr8HarV 1 year ago
I am so gonna figure this stuff out at my drumset with this video playing in repeat. I wanna get this!!
Jordy666sic 1 year ago
i still cant figure it out
6pwner 1 year ago
Meshuggah mastered this stuff
fullmetalmc 1 year ago 2
@fullmetalmc Meshuggah have mastered polyrythems yes, but not like these ones. Meshuggah usually use polyrythems which are just different time signatures over each other, like in Dancers to a discordant system and such. These polyrythems are like triplets and semiquavers at once etc. There is a difference ^^
Guitareben 1 year ago
@Guitareben I havent listened to all of Meshuggahs tracks but they do not have any that use these types of polyrhythms?
fullmetalmc 1 year ago
@Guitareben Meshuggah have polymeters. Different time signatures that after a given amount of bars match up the value of 4/4. So, no they are not in Odd-time as people say they are. They have even admitted it themselves. It's like playing a bar of 9/8 and then a bar of 7/8. Still not odd-time...
MrElias090295 1 year ago
@MrElias090295 Ahhh i was under the impression that playing different time signatures over one another was a polyrythem :). Well, thank-you for the info :D
Cheers, Ben
Guitareben 1 year ago
Love this and wish more popular music had more odd time signatures or polyrhythms, but it does not appeal to the general public and it's hard to "Disco" to... ha ha, but great video thanks,
gmcjetpilot 1 year ago
damn, i feel like an idiot
kennykensworth 1 year ago
my god...his independents...
teamsleepnine 1 year ago
lol I dont think he is keeping good rythmn :)
realmadridvideos 1 year ago
im learning that beat in 17-50 very tricky to put on top of each other
stuffyshnouzer666 1 year ago
Holy crap, I'd love to try and work out 7/4 time :) Great vid, polyrhythms are awesome and this was a really educational video :)
Arachnidius 1 year ago
is this a Dvd?
Loetrumpet 1 year ago
There are so many examples of this in music. Often, you don't even know it's happening, but many familiar rhythm patterns do it. For example, Hark of the Bells is 3 on 2. However,many composers are more in-your-face about polyrhythm. Frank Zappa, for example, relished in it. Watch "Zappa Plays Zappa : The Black Page #1 & #2 " . For the score, google "black_page-batterie.pdf"
timrob62 1 year ago
counting fail at 3:14
Stunneduck44 1 year ago
These beats are just mind blowing..:S...
awesomedrummer555 1 year ago
I learn more about guitar when I watch videos of drummers.
diabeticmonkey 1 year ago 2
after the burial = rhythmic translation of pi.
guitarguy42394 1 year ago 4
I've started polyrhythms for about 4 years now, and it still amazes me how many you can make and learn by just starting them in different partials!!!!
roquemusic 1 year ago
That Afro-Cuban thing at the beginning blows my mind.
HendrixcommaMartin 1 year ago
@HendrixcommaMartin some of the coolest effin drumming from Africa. I love it.
bpm6709 1 year ago
Cliff...that is the best visual example I have ever come across! as I was reading it, I was able to create a mental picture thus helping me understand the concept - Thank you very much for that!
dave2165 2 years ago
You're welcome, mate!
cliffordgeertz861 2 years ago
Meshuggah?
AgentGustavo 2 years ago
awesome :)
specialness16 2 years ago
a poly on guitar isn't hard unless you make it hard.
just hit the strings counting one,two,three,four
from E -to A to-D to -G (4/4)
The first time you hit E with the right hand hammer on from the open string to the third fret and pull of to open so it's
0h3p0h5p0h7
Sort of bouncing from the zero to the third fifth and seventh fret.
If you continue these two rhythms together they will end up into a poly.
12 beats on the right hand and it repeats again 3x4 = 12.
oceanicband 2 years ago
as a guitar player i try to write both guitar parts like this. its almost too hard to use polyrhythms to write a single guitar part with a single guitar...but i can write the rhythm guitar in normal 4/4 and write the lead guitar in 3/4 or 5/4, etc. it gives it a random feel but the music still sounds "normal". its great for writing unique pieces.
Hydraulacost 2 years ago
Got an example? I'm sure a lot of guitarists (including myself) would be interested in seeing something written like that. Thank you in advance.
jonathanKool 2 years ago 3
@Hydraulacost you should check out bob brozman if you want to practice polyrhythms on guitar, he has some exercises on his website that are really helpful
bizzenjy 1 year ago
i'm lost,....
this proves that speed doesn't make you the best drummer...
underprog 2 years ago 14
@underprog oh yeah!
Nekronaut321 2 years ago
@underprog speed just means you have physical strength, not technical skill.
S0ryiu 5 months ago
@S0ryiu Not really. Speed is dexterity.
ForevermoreNevermore 5 months ago
So essentially all a polyrhythm is is one pulse subdivided into two or more different parts being played at the same time?
Someone please help me out pleeeaaase!!!!!!!!!! I love music just like you do!!! Share your knowledge!!
illnastic 2 years ago
A polyrhythm is a group of two or more rhythms played at the same time. It's not a single, composite pulse, they're multiple pulses.
Imagine a triangle into a square, both rotating on the same centre at the same speed, but in opposite directions. Their angles meet sometimes, but their sides never join. So is a polyrhythm (a 3 over 4 in this case), whose rhythms have notes in common (based upon a scheme, but here comes a mathematical trip...), but never sound the same. You choose which one leads.
cliffordgeertz861 2 years ago 5
Wow thank you so much!
illnastic 2 years ago
that old guy is nasty!
mawkheaf 2 years ago
1 2 3 4 Im getting crazy
PeponeNRC 2 years ago
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IpkisStanley 2 years ago
very very challenging
marcusphenom31 2 years ago 3
Beast.
notknown 2 years ago
AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! my head hurts by how complex it is!!!!!!!
Tamadrummer11 2 years ago 2
i find it relatively easy to play but to compose is ridiculous hah a band called the faceless does polyrythm with guitar
DTGskadoosh 2 years ago 3
THE FACELESS YEEAAAH!
brameijk 2 years ago 4
yeah very talented to plat poly rhythm, with guitar haha
DTGskadoosh 2 years ago
where I get stuck is...Im playing this great poly rythum on both hands then bam I try to throw in a bass drum...falls apart
Nile505 2 years ago 2
Great Tutorial THANKS
mnap128 2 years ago 3
i kind of understand this now, i wanna add polyrhythm breakdowns into my deathcore stuff
zach7000 2 years ago 6
polyrhythm is bliss
babaoriley8 2 years ago 38
I know god bless those africans
nvvm 2 years ago 53
Music is just like anything else: it can be learned. And you have to FEEL it. Sure, read the numbers at first, but after a while you get a better FEEL for the playing.
youvebeenthunderstru 2 years ago 5
fine explanation. odd grooves and polyrhythm is the heaven for every drummer's ears...good god, your quite a good player, keep on drumming!
MrMichaelSchwark 2 years ago 5
Excellent explanation!!
dunDaan 2 years ago
I think not always one metter goes faster than the other one...eg. 5 than 4 (that happens in Africa, with a lot of percussionists together). But in a drumset the point is that they are two completely different meters and they would meet again on 1 of both meters after the correct number of bars necessary to reach the one.
martinlentini 2 years ago
Very cool, thanks!
9r9t3 2 years ago
Does the speed change when your playing polyrhytms? Like lets say someone would was playing 5/4 and someone was playing 4/4. They both are at the same speed and start on 1. Would they then both start on 1 again and meet up after 4 bars of 5/4 or 5 bars of the 4/4? Or is the 5/4 playing faster than the 4/4
SteveTheDrum 2 years ago
Steve, Your last sentence is what is going on here - 5 over 4 -
The 5 is going faster than the 4 and they both meet on 1 at the next bar. Polyrhythms ( ( the term "Polymeter"also applies ) means two different, pulse's going at the same time. Therefore you could also think of it as 4 over 5 . Usually 6 over 4 is a more commen starting point, then 3 over 4 ( 5 and 7 come last ) btw just play one against the other useing your BD or a metronome (as the other) then just play it until you get it !
BeatScheme 2 years ago
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Beaudereck 7 months ago
@BeatScheme well now you're describing a polyrythm over a bar, but you could indeed have a polyrythm over 5 bars of 4:4 or 4 bars of 5:4. You could even have a polyrythm over 7 8th notes of your original tempo if you wanted, and then resolve with a half beat of fill, for example, if you were playing in 4:4 (the "5:4" being quintuplets of septuplets).
Beaudereck 7 months ago
@SteveTheDrum I thought it could be either, you can eother play the 5/4 faster or meet up after 4 bars of 5/4 (Or 5 bars of 4/5 depending on whatever instrument you're playing.)
DrumTrimmings88 1 year ago
@SteveTheDrum 5/4 phrased over/in 4/4 is different than 5:4 (5 in the time of 4). Think of 5 notes evenly spaced in the time of 4 notes. This can span one bar of 4/4. Rather than Four bars of 5/4 equaling/or resolving in Five bars of 4/4. The speed does not change in 5/4 phrased in 4/4. It does change with 5:4 Five in the time of Four. To play Five notes in the time of Four notes, the Five notes will have to be played faster than the Four notes.
dridetube 1 year ago
very helpful, brilliant !
lsjllsjl 2 years ago
Polyrhythms are really confusing. I can't read music or anything. I'm a drummer that likes to hear what i'm playing. Instead of thinking of the math part. I want to try polyrhythms but I don't even know where to start.
HELP ME PLEASE.
g613044 2 years ago
you can't get around it. there are no shortcuts. you have to learn polyrhythms exactly the same way as everyone else. it doesn't matter what you "want" to do.
ace76543 2 years ago 2
To be the best musician you can be you have to take things further, learn the math, the theory, whatever. BUT, once you get good all of this becomes second nature and you won't have to think about it anymore, so keep practising!
samkeen 2 years ago
Being able to read music will open up many creative doors for you.
Just because you're a "drummer that likes to hear what I'm playing" doesn't mean that you'll lose your ability to play by ear if you learn to read. In fact, reading and playing by hear can go hand in hand.
You can't learn polyrhytms if you don't know about reading, time signatures, or music theory.
Ummagumma69 2 years ago 3
excellent work !!!!!!!!1
ImI
vergamoth 2 years ago
For Spawn, im not an educated drummer but this might explain in in lay terms at least (hopefully). Imagine you are hitting the snare 3 times (1 measure) and a friend is hitting it 4 times(1 measure). You both count out loud. You will play ur measure 4 times and s/he will play theirs 3 times. That is if you are in 3/4 and 4/4, respectively. Its the common denominator. I am also not an educated mathematician, but I hope that explained something, LOL.
crazygoat135 2 years ago
Yes-Exactly! Now imagine that you play your 3 twice as fast - it is now 6 - or each (1) of the 3's in triplets - that is 9 - or each (1) of the 3's broken into 4's - then that would be 12 ( over 4). Now, the thing is to play the 4 on the bass drum and all those 3's on the sd. Your brain then starts going from rhythmic "monaural" to hearing and playing in rhythmic "stereo". The brain has two frontal lobes what we are doing here is expanding them.
Polyrhythm The Musicians Guide - is about this.
BeatScheme 2 years ago
I might just pick up the book :). Anyway, what exactly do you mean by playing 5 over 4 until they meet on 1? Wouldnt you already be starting on one if you were playing a 5 over 4? Do you mean, just play 4 and 5 independently? I just need some clarification. Thanks!
spawnofDeAtH5 2 years ago
Exactly ! they both start on 1 and come together again on 1
(the 5 quarter notes travel 1&1/4 times faster than the 4 quar. notes) that rhythmic ratio is not that hard to hear or play but it does take some practice. however 5 over 4 is not the best place to start. I suggest try 6 over 4 (1&1/2 times faster than 4) or 3 over 4 (3/4 times slower than the 4) both are easier to hear and learn.
Note: Polyrhythms (above) may then be sub-divided into 1/8ths-triplets-1/16ths ( just as you would in 4/4)
BeatScheme 2 years ago
Thanks again for the info! And i have taken time to learn 6 over 4. I was just using 5 over 4 as an example. The ones i know are 3 over 4, 6 over 4, 3 over 5, 4 over 5, 3 over 7, and 4 over 7. I'm not exactly sure what time signature to put first. Because with 3 against 4, for example, you can have two different sounding polyrhythms. You can have the 3 as the main pulse or 4 as the main pulse. I would imagine that 3 OVER 4 is a three over a main pulse of 4. Am i correct?
spawnofDeAtH5 2 years ago
You are correct 3 over 4 would generally be considered as 3 half notes over 4 quarter notes in 4/4. However it could be 3 quarter notes over 4 eighth notes in a bar of 7/8 for example. Then again it could be 4 quarter notes over 3 quarter notes when turned upside down (or in 3/4) . Steve Smith is doing great things with polyrhythms as has Jeff Watts, Bill Stewart, Frank Zappa & almost all African and East Indian drummers + many modern composers. Just stay with it and create some new grooves !!
BeatScheme 2 years ago
i might buy that musician's guide to poly rhythms anybody have it?
stevieVantanna 2 years ago
"polyrhythms the musicians guide" can be found all over the internet. Just type in the name in a search engine; it will give you dozens of sites that sell it world-wide. same for " polyrhythms for the drumset "
drumsstop 2 years ago
he sure knows how to play them drums :-|
kibbson 3 years ago 2
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drumsstop 2 years ago
i think 3 over 4 and 6 over 4 polyrhythms are very common..it's used a lot in rock. what kills me is the 5 over 4 and 7 over 4 7 over 6 and 5 over 6...i feel like ripping my brain apart..
jetsterx 3 years ago 2
Yea, 5 over 4 and that kind of thing is crazy shit. I dont know exactly how he learned this but my friend (who is like a polyrhythmic genius) told me a way to figure out any polyrhythm. If it's 5 over 4, you would put the time signature in 4 and write out 16th note quintuplets for every beat. Then you play after every 4 quintuplets-1, 5, 4, 3, 2, and that's one measure. I know that's probably hard to follow, but that's how i can explain it. I could write it out, but not on youtube.
spawnofDeAtH5 2 years ago
Also, there is an application called quadranome that plays polyrhythms. Of course, i found that out after i learned how to do it the hard way. Just search quadranome on youtube and get the trial. Its really cool to mess around with anyway.
spawnofDeAtH5 2 years ago
This is a reply to "SpawnofDeAtH5". The systems you mention work, but what I am looking for is; Just play them until they both fit with each other, otherwise you are never really in a polyrhythm.
(ie:) Play 5 over 4 until they both meet on1. Experiment until you hear the 5 and the 4 together as one unit (that goes for all the others as well). Then "stretch out" with those polyrhythms.Your intutive sense of time and rhythmic skills will greatly improve!
I also recommend the Polyrhythm book. PM
BeatScheme 2 years ago
i play, but this dosnt seem like an intro to polyrhythms. seems advanced
alloneword154 3 years ago 3
o:49...... I need to learn how to play that
amanky11 3 years ago
I play lots of 6/8 ritmes over 2/8 or 4/8(or w/e it is) my open hi-hat, has a nice tick. I don't focuss much on how to call it though, It would make me crazy :P
This man must be crazy! :D
Jjjjjjcool 3 years ago
I really dug this vid
brenzig 3 years ago 4
M A S T E R M A G D I N I
davidians79 3 years ago 4
im so glad i dont play drums... im trying to learn about polyrhythms for guitar but this is insane.
MonsterMonster13ohya 3 years ago 2
got to pause this! Want to start playing lol
uspsionic 3 years ago
this video inspired me!
ive been a drummer for 4 1/2 years and i was doing this crazy beat one day and didnt know what it was. know i know that it was just a 6 over 4 polyrhythm
TLDBFH 3 years ago 4
@TLDBFH I was doing exactly the same thing! I had my hi-hat looping in 4/4 and my snare on the 2 and 4 while I was playing my bassdrum untill 6. I couldn't get what I was playing bu now I can!
Jordy666sic 1 year ago
yeah im not a drummer, i play guitar but i find polyrythems awesome i incorperate it in my playing a bit
HeavyBeavan 3 years ago 6
Where is this clip taken from? (polyrhythm the album with george duke I will never grow tired of..Inspired genius!)
montenegrasanovic 3 years ago
To use an American expression:
Awesome.
Cannibalblast 3 years ago 2
Ancient greeks thought music and mathematics were the same in their core... this Master took that idea to an even higher level, adding his soul in his approach = genius.
sebavitali 3 years ago 2
This guy is the guy who put me in music...he's too sick
dbmgd 3 years ago
this dude is one of the best when it comes to polyrhythems.
drummingman 4 years ago 4
wow,.master,.
ezercomia 4 years ago 4