PLENTY of women died from botched HOMEMADE abortions before Roe was legalized (as well as legalized abortion in various states before '73). It's a risky fucking procedure, and if a woman's desperate enough, she'll take the risk. It DOESN'T MATTER if abortion is legal or not and provided in a clinic or at home by herself!! Surely you'd understand this, ubermom?
I'm so sick of prolifers who think the ONLY way to "solve" this "problem" is MORE REGULATION or to RE-BAN abortion. Please
Prohibition of a popular service or product DOESN'T WORK! We've seen it with alcohol, drugs, and so many other things. People will find ways around it, so simply saying, "Let's make it a crime and ban it" does no good. You've gotta get at the ROOT CAUSES of why so many women see the need to have abortions, many of them being very young and feeling desperate, esp. if they have little to no money or job opportunities. THAT would go a long way and do more than regulation.
It sickens me that so many anti-abortion advocates do nothing but bitch about it being legal and/or bitch about the women who get the abortions (as well as the abortion doctors) as if they're "sinful" or some bullshit like that, while doing NOTHING to actually help those women to encourage them NOT to get abortions and keep the child, at least to term, if they care SOO MUCH about the fetus!!! Simply bashing abortions and legalization and doing nothing to help women doesn't advance your cause.
It just makes you look like arrogant, condescending SOBs with a thirst for vengeance for the fetii that don't actually care about your own cause. I mean, how many actual prolifers in this country have, I dunno, said they'd adopt a pregnant teen mother's child if she agreed to keep it? How many of them gave teen mothers assistance or offered to do so after the child is born to encourage her to keep it?
Not many I'd assume. All you wanna do is bitch about it and do nothing substantive.
And the fact is, for all the crap you hear about PP being a "bad" or "evil" organization that does things like "ignores rape" or even "promotes" it, only 3% of their ACTUAL FUNDING goes towards abortion! The rest are very necessary sexual health services for women. Some of that stuff COULD actually prevent more unnecessary pregnancies and/or abortions when done right. But no, the vast majority of you wanna stand on your high horse, bitch about it, and try to further regulate it by law.
Plus, some of you are INCREDIBLY hyperbolic in your language. You act like a fucking fetus, including ones that are a week old or less, getting 'killed' is somehow gonna lead to THE END OF THE WORLD. And hell, these are totally nonsentient beings who have NO IDEA who the fuck you people are, at least until birth (if they're born)! What do they care if they're aborted or not? How would YOU know in particular whether or not they really wanted to be born, esp. if they knew the circumstances?
It's very presumptuous. At least LIVING beings and humans can consciously say, "I don't wanna die. Protect me." But you anti-abortion folks arrogantly ASSUME that they ALL would wanna "be born" no matter what. You claim being anti-abortion is based on some kind of anti-murder "principle", but it's really just arrogance and presumptuousness. I mean, you're fighting for a group THAT NEVER ASKED FOR IT. Who CARES?? Yes, I don't actively encourage more abortions, but for god sakes...
Abortions happen whether you like it or not. Move the fuck on and stop whining. Abortion has existed since AT LEAST the time of the Egyptians! What do you hope to achieve by constantly bashing abortion choice and groups like PP?? You REALLY think it'll just "go away" with illegality again? You're sorely mistaken.
Ook... What is this video implying, that they're ALL the result of abortions? That the doctors "killed" them or some bullshit like that?? I'd like to see the evidence. Plus, I'm sure most of them made the conscious decision to get abortions, so they knew what they were getting into. They took the risk. You have no right to try to "stand up for them" as if they would LIKE you to do it or would agree with your stance. You're using them as political pawns. Ugh
this video was not meant for making fun of those who underwent an abortion and faced the same fate as the baby, it was meant to show the more detailed truth as to what the risks and outcome of making that choice is. and fyi, after 16 weeks of gestation, the risk of abortion on the life of the woman doubles every two weeks as the pregnancy continues. ie, at 18 weeks it's 2x as risky as giving birth at full term, at 20 weeks it is 4x, etc.
The whole notion that you can go and sleep with anyone you like, get pregnant and dump the baby because it is a hassle to your way of life is just cruel.
And you all go on and on about the right of the woman to dump to baby, but do you ever think about the right of the baby to live?
i curious as to the statistics of women who die giving birth is. no medical procedure is without risk. we simply say that women should be able to take that risk if they want to without being criminalized.
The point is that as long as the abortion is legal, the abortion lobby (the self-appointed guardians of women's lives) doesn't really give a happy shit if she survives it or not. Some of the biggest quacks out there are National Abortion Federation members -- the abortion equivalent of the UL Label. And prochoicers don't hold them accountable for this.
Marla Cardamone was browbeaten into her abortion by a hospital social worker who used lies and emotional blackmail.
Allegra Roseberry was told her baby was "doomed" because of her cancer treatments, and that she'd not be able to get into a lifesaving cancer treatment program unless she aborted.
You don't know anything about these women, about their despair or fears. You have no idea what they did or didn't understand about their choices.
Thank you for saying this. I think you are 100% correct, and I think judging the women who have abortions, undermines why we are so opposed to abortion.
Christin Gilbert was mentally disabled, unable to give her consent. Her parents arranged the abortion. But you would condemn her because of a choice somebody else made for her.
Actually most women report that they have an abortion because they feel they have (ironically) no choice at all. The rhetoric of the so-called pro-choice movement needs to be exposed. And even for those women who go of their own 'free will' I suspect many of them are not aware of the full facts. Abortion may be evil, but it's wrong to condemn women as a group. Let's support THEM and throw those who would make money out of this travesty into jail.
logo:Actually most women report that they have an abortion because they feel they have (ironically) no choice at all. Thats rediculous. There is ALWAYS a choice, all women know what they are, and women ALWAYS choose one. Don't paint women as being ignorant.
Really? Lookup 'Madeleine Tope'. It's got nothing to with your idealistic idea that women know what they are doing - it has to do with what ACTUALLY happens. Women feel pressured - and legalizing abortion just makes people have no sympathy for an unexpected pregnancy- hey, just get an abortion. Therefore undermining the need to provide better maternal care and support for pregnant women. What 'Choice'? Abortion is anti-woman, the first feminists hated it.
pam:The women who go to abortion clinics make a conscious CHOICE to do what they did and they sometimes end up dead just like their babies. Please learn & not look stupid! Abortion is a VERY safe procedure. It's about twice as safe as a shot of penicillin, and is 11 times safer than giving birth!!
pam: I have absolutely NO sympathy for those women LOLOL, after abortions 97% of women walk out w/ a sense of satifaction & relief! STOP thinking they are sad & need sympathy.
Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly?
sueezee: "Because every person in her has worked in an abortion clinic, done abortions, seen aborted fetus', adopted children who were put up for adoption, and I UNLIKE you, don't believe everything that is thrown at me without PROOF.Its why I KNOW not many doctrs performed abortion before it was legal...Why do you fall for all of it?"
These women, and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS that have died by legal abortion should have a MEMORIAL WALL as the victims of the Womb War. They, too, are Veterans. No risks are EVER explained or shared.
So sad, hard to take, really. To die while killing your own child. It truly is beyond words.
I agreee Xcesschick ("These women, and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS that have died by legal abortion should have a MEMORIAL WALL as the victims of the Womb War. They, too, are Veterans. No risks are EVER explained or shared. So sad, hard to take, really. To die while killing your own child. It truly is beyond words. Lord Have Mercy.") but unfortunately pro-aborts don't care about dead babies OR dead women - as long as they can have 'free sex' (paid for with so many babies' and womens' lives).
"Certain conditions in a person's past can increase the chance for an ectopic pregnancy. IN GENERAL, about 1 out of 100 pregnancies is outside of the uterus. It is MORE FREQUENT in women who have had prior ectopic pregnancies, or who have had damage to their fallopian tubes. Tubes can be scarred by infection, SURGERY, or endometriosis."
"Ectopic pregnancy is the leading cause of pregnancy-related death during the first trimester. In the United States, the reported number of hospitalizations for ectopic pregnancy increased from 17,800 in 1970 to 88,400 in 1989 (1)."
Reference:
1. Goldner TE, Lawson HW, Xia Z, Atrash HK. Surveillance for ectopic pregnancy -- United States, 1970-1989. In: CDC surveillance summaries (December). MMWR 1993;42(no. SS-6):73-85.
"Since 1970, the frequency of ectopic pregnancy has increased 6-fold, and it now occurs in 2% of all pregnancies. An estimated 108,800 ectopic pregnancies in 1992 resulted in 58,200 hospitalizations with an estimated cost of $1.1 billion."
uber: you show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE group or politician was in the forefront of trying to shut it down. Show me ONE.
suez: I have NO idea why you're asking me this question.
Of course you have no idea because you have no genuine concern for the safety of women. I have not heard of any choicers trying to shut down dangerous clinics that are killing women or to even try to make them follow proper procedures. You defend and protect the industry not women.
uber:show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE groupwas trying to shut it down.
suez: I have NO idea why you're asking me this question.
jud:Of course you have no idea because you have no genuine concern for the safety of women. You're an idiot jud and I'm sick of seeing you prove it. Uber (YOU) asked me an IRRELEVANT question, I ask why, and YOU, moronically say its because I dont care about women? I have NO doubt that makes sense to you.And you are uber too!
"Abortion Practice" by Warren Hern, M.D., Boulder Colorado Abortionist published in 1984 by the J.B. Lippenott Company. Hern performs abortions up until the 4th month of pregnancy:
"The procedure changes significantly at 21 weeks because fetal tissues become much more cohesive and difficult to dismember" p 154
"A long curved Mayo scissors may be necessary to decapitate and dismember the fetus." - p 154
About 1% of pregnancies are ectopic.. So the number of ectopic pregnancies that aren't discovered after an attempetd abortion (IF thats what your TRYING to say) are.... near NONE!! NEAR NONE!!
I gave you names. So -- you're saying that those women weren't real? They didn't really die? Or are you just saying that to you they're insignificant?
"I gave you names. So -- you're saying that those women weren't real? They didn't really die? Or are you just saying that to you they're insignificant?"
Obviously she's just another of the choicists who sometimes pretends to be concerned about others if she can use that faked concern to try to keep abortion legal. They say they care about starving or abused kids, women killed by illegal abortions, women's rights... but they really ONLY care about 'free sex' and abortion.
"..the emotional turmoil that the procedure inevitably wreaks on the physicians and staff...There is no possibility of denial of an act of destruction by the operator...the sensations of diSMEMBERMENT flow through the FORCEPS like an electric current."
Abortionist quoted in "Meeting of American Association of Planned Parenthood Physicians" OBGYN News P 196
ABORTION IS LEGAL...WITH ALL YOUR SILLY STATS, ABORTION IS LEGAL..YOU CAN TALK & LIE TILL YOU'RE BLUE IN THE FACE....AND ABORTION IS STILL LEGAL. You're whining serves NO purpose, excpet in your own mind.
Abortion is only legal because the normal checks and balances were ignored when 9 male judges overstepped their authority andstripped the citizens of each state the right to legislate on abortion's legality. The status quo legal status of abortion is not supported by the voting public. Citizens have a right to free speech and to participate in the democratic process - REAL RIGHTS - and MOST people really do care about the stats and the safety of women even if you do not.
So, for you the entire point isn't whether or not women are better off. It's purely about the legal status of abortion. As long as it's legal, whatever these guys do to the women is okay and acceptable. The only unacceptable situation isn't a dead woman, it's a law on the books punishing the guy who kills her.
(continued) When a woman dies of ectopic pregnancy complications because an abortionist prevented prompt diagnosis and treatment, she's not counted as an abortion death; she's counted among the other pregnancy deaths. Her death is then USED to back the LIE that abortion is safer than childbirth. And women who end up dying from ectopic pregnancies CAUSED BY the scarring from a previous abortion are also added to the deaths from childbirth statistics.
jud:Her death is then USED to back the LIE that abortion is safer than childbirth
According to the UN, 500,000 women die worldwide every year from childbirth, approximately 50,000 per year in the U.S. from all causes and complications of childbirth. According to the CDC(U.S Center for Disease Control) between 4000 and 5000 women in the U.S. died annually from illegal abortions prior to 1973. After abortion became legal and safe, that death rate fell to DOZENS A YEAR!
Somebody has been swallowing abortion industry lies. The death rates from illegal abortions dropped way before legalization because of antibiotics. The statistics of women who die from childbirth are falsely inflated by abortion-caused deaths being put into that category. AND abortion causes life-threatening complications in future pregnancies so some of the maternal childbirth deaths are caused by a previous abortion (but not reported as such).
The CDC never said 5,000 women were dying before Roe. That was abortion lobbying groups, who got it from a book 1936 by Frederic Taussig. Taussig repudiated his own numbers in 1942, but the abortion lobby continued to use them, knowing they were false. You have to go to the early 1940s to get more than 1,000 women dying a year -- before antibiotics and transfusions. And that was ALL abortions -- including miscarriages and "therapeutic" abortions done in hospitals legally.
jud:When a woman dies of ectopic pregnancy complications because an abortionist prevented prompt diagnosis and treatment
WHAT? One does NOT get an abortion for a ectopic pregnancy! An ectopic pregnancyis where a fertilized egg has implanted OUTSIDE the uterus! 95% of the time in the fallopian tube. It requires surgery NOT an ABORTION!
jud:When a woman dies of ectopic pregnancy complications because an abortionist prevented prompt diagnosis and treatment
sueez:WHAT? One does NOT get an abortion for a ectopic pregnancy! An ectopic pregnancyis where a fertilized egg has implanted OUTSIDE the uterus! 95% of the time in the fallopian tube. It requires surgery NOT an ABORTION!
It is the responsibility of the doctor who confirms the pregnancy and/or does the abortion to detect the ectopic pregnancy or the woman may die.
They're not SUPPOSED to perform abortions, but they do, because they process the women like cattle in a slaughterhouse. They don't bother to do a proper ultrasound and find that the embryo is actually in the tube. They vacuum out the empty uterus and send her home thinking she's not pregnant any more. Then when she has symptoms of the ectopic, she and the clinic staff attribute them to the abortion, believing that she can't still be pregnant. The tube ruptures, and often the woman dies.
Sueezee's inability to understand the point has got to be faked - just like her faked concern for the rights and safety of women.
Isn't she the poster who called women who trust the clinics "dumbasses"? She scoffs at the info about the risks, but claims the abortion clinic gives the info, then makes fun of women who are injured or killed by abortion because they didn't research the risks themselves BEFORE going to the clinic, then she's back to scoffing at the info about the risks...
Google the following women: Janyth Caldwell, Claudia Caventou, Barbara Dillon, Sherry Emry, Gladyss Estanislao, Josefina Garcia, Doris Grant, Yvette Poteat, Angela Satterfield, Laura Sorrels, Magnolia Thomas, Brenda Vise, and Lynette Wallace.
The CDC did a study around the time Sherry Emry died, and found that women who had ectopic pregnancies were more likely to die if they sought abortions because of sloppy practices in abortion facilities that failed to diagnose ectopics.
"I'll tell you one thing about D & E. You never have to worry about a baby's being born alive. I won't describe D & E other than to say that, as a doctor, you are sitting there tearing, and I mean tearing- you need a lot of strength to do it- arms and legs off of babies and putting them in a stack on top of the table."
jud:you are sitting there tearing, and I mean tearing- you need a lot of strength to do it- arms and legs off of babies and putting them in a stack on top of the table."
LIE..the extremities are surgically removed. Stop reading and listening to pro-life propaganda. They are making you look ignorant. Do you read The Night Before Christmas and spread THAT nonsense around, too? I have little doubt.
"LIE..the extremities are surgically removed." According to the abortionist I quoted, and many others who've given similar descriptions, AND a video of a D & E abortion, the baby's arms and legs are 'surgically removed' by grabbing them with forceps and ripping the baby apart. I guess YOU believe there is some sort of magical 'surgery' wand that just dismembers the baby if you wave it around? You're either ignorant or dishonest.
jud:the baby's arms and legs are 'surgically removed' by grabbing them with forceps and ripping the baby apart.
If you wold use your head and think. Do you actually think an arm wold come off by pulling it?Its attached by ligaments, bones, muscles, skin, veins etc. At approx 5" long its tough. using ultrasound, the doctor grabs the fetal leg/arm with forceps. Theyare one by one pulled into the birth canal,they are then lacerated and removed. But i want to you to keep spreading your lies.
Oh, you're describing a newer late-2nd technique I'd not encountered before. Did this technique replace the one Martin Haskell described, in which they just killed the fetus the day before and let it rot overnight? Do you have some cites so I can add links about it to my web site?
jud:I guess YOU believe there is some sort of magical 'surgery' wand that just dismembers the baby if you wave it around? Yes jud dear, its called a scapel "wand"(LOL).A scalpel is a small, butsharp knife used for surgery,particulary anatomical dissection,( AND ats & crafts too!lol) The doctor "waves" it across extremities and they become detached. How old are you?
A doctor waves a scalpel across extremeties and they become dismembered sueezee???? How about..a doctor waves it across the babies arms and legs. What kind of idiot are you? LOL. SAY IT FOR WHAT IT IS! :-)
Read "Abortion Practice" by Warren Hern. He's one of the founding members of the National Abortion Federation, so you can't dismiss what he writes as antiabortion propaganda.
If you look at court testimony for the PBA bans, you'll also get some fairly graphic descriptions of second-trimester abortions, given by those who do them.
Don't just dismiss what you don't like out of hand. Do a little research.
"If we see a doctor out there who's really hurting women, it's incumbent upon us to blow the whistle -- no matter what the outcome. But it's a real choice, because you could end up with someone worse -- or no doctor at all ..."
-- Ron Fitzsimmons, Director of National Coalition of Abortion Providers
Remember this was in response to Tommy Tucker, who had killed one patient, Angela Hall, by abandoning her, and killed another patient in a *Norplant removal procedure*! Imagine what kind of mind-set stops to ponder whether or not to get rid of somebody like that!
It's a mindset that sees females as disposable sex objects that they can rich selling drugs, devices, and surgeries to, drugs, devices, and surgeries that enable the owmen to be used for sex minus love and committment. The 'concern' for women they claim as the reason they defend abortion is really just a positive-sounding excuse to sell abortions to women they care nothing at all about. Sueezee posted that she works in a clinic and called women harmed by abortion 'dumbasses'
jud:Sueezee posted that she works in a clinic You're a god damned liar, but then we all knew that. I NEVER said I worked in a clinic!!! You have proven you are not credible!!
You made the claim that 'all' the pro-choicers posting here knew what abortion really was because you supposedly all worked in clinics... whatever I doubted you were telling the truth anyway.
"To earlier feminists who had fought for the vote and for fair treatment in the workplace, it had seemed obvious that the ready availability of abortion would facilitate the sexual exploitation of women. Women like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton regarded free love, abortion, and easy divorce as disastrous for women and children. They would have regarded women who actively promoted those causes as FOOLISH or DERANGED."
Mary Ann Glendon - Professor of Law at Harvard University
"[The few doctors willing to replace those who are retiring are] mostly physicians who have had difficulty establishing regular ob-gyn practices. . . Out of [one abortion practitioner's] first six months of work, there are nine malpractice suits ... After it was apparent the guy was a klutz, they kept using him, and trying to cover for him, because they couldn't find another provider."
Robert Crist, abortion doctor, St. Petersburg Times, June 3, 1990.
"We try to use the physician for his technical skill and reduce the one-to-one relationship with the patient. We usually see the patient for the first time on the operation table and then not again. More contact is just not efficient."
Abortionist Edward Allred, quoted in The San Diego Union , October 12, 1980
Efficiency equals higher profits - at the expense of patient care and safety. The abortion industry is about the money - not about concern for women.
During a deposition in the Deanna Bell case, Allred admitted that he had never done a preventability assessment after a patient death to see how they could protect other patients in the future. I know of TWELVE patients his mills have killed: Deanna Bell, Chanelle Bryant, Patricia Chacon, Laniece Dorsey, Josefina Garcia, Denise Holmes, Susan Levy, Christina Mora, Kimberly Neil, Joyce Ortenzio, Mary Pena, and Tami Suematsu. And I'd bet there are more, whose families never sued.
ANYTHING that PP and the abortion industry provides as patient protection rights is the result of pro-life sponsered legislative efforts. PP openly opposed such patient protection measures being put in place and is trying strip them away from their patients again. It's equivalent to the warning label on a pack of cigarettes - it's ONLY there because concerned citizens fought the industry to get the warning there.
Victoria Woodhull, the first female presidential candidate was a strong opponent of abortion: "The rights of children as individuals begin while yet they remain the foetus." Woodhull's and Claflin's Weekly 2(6):4 December 24, 1870
"Every woman knows that if she were free, she would never bear an unwished-for child, nor think of murdering one before its birth."
Wheeling, West Virginia Evening Standard, November 17, 1875
sueezee: "97% of women who abort are thrilled to have had the option. It makes the sun shine again for most!"
hmmm sounds like that idiotic myth the Aztecs believed in - that if they didn't sacrifice humans to the sun it wouldn't shine anymore. Also it reveals belief in the outdated myth that female biology is somehow inferior to male biology - that the ABILITY to be pregnant is some sort of defect to be corrected by abortion surgery. Sickos
Eileen: the death of your precious daughter will not go unnoticed AND those who shamefully and cruelly make fun of your loss (while pretending to care about women) are being exposed by their own vile postings as being pro-abortion, not pro-choice, and certainly not pro-woman. People DO CARE about what was done to your daughter - apparently none of the 'people' employed in the abortion industry care though.
Clinics assure women that abortion is 'safe' and that they will be given accurate info about the procedure when they get to the clinic. Then the info is withheld or replaced with lies. Then when the women have a complication they weren't warned about they are made fun of BY the clinic staff for trusting their deception: sueezee: "you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
sueezee: "Are you telling me you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
Just in case anyone reading here is under the false impression that pro-aborts like sueezee care about women. Also, she stated (in a post that is now gone?) that 'all' the por-aborts posting here work at an abortion clinic, have seen abortions, fetuses, etc. (so we should all just trust her claims? LOL)
There is a huge difference between prochoice people and proabortion people. The proabortion people disguise themselves as prochoice and tend to get into leadership position in advocacy groups. They talk the prochoice talk then do proabortion things quietly behind the scenes.
My main goal isn't to convert folks from prochoice to prolife, because once you're prolife nobody will listen. It's to get the prochoicers to demand proCHOICE leadership. I'd say doing THAT would reduce abortions up to 80%.
Abortionist defender 'sueezee' was making fun of how abortionists hide the fatalities form abortion - asked a 'humorous' question about whether they actually were hiding the bodies. I remembered that was exactly what they got caught trying to do to after they killed Angela. And wasn't that the clinic where the abortionist wasn't even a doctor?
"We do have bad practitioners. And it's affecting all of us. And we have been reluctant to do anything or say anything or whatever because of the physician shortage. We don't want bad press, but when something happens, under our breaths we all say, 'Well, it was just a matter of time.'"
"We want to make sure that women have choices when it comes to abortion services, and if you regulate it too strictly, then you deny women the access to the service."
Barbara Radford
National Abortion Federation Executive Director
CBS News, 60 Minutes, April 21, 1991
Here's the deal: The NAF SELLS it's endorsement to any abortion clinic that buys it. The NAF refers trusting women to so-called 'safe' NAF endorsed clinics. But the implied safety regulations don't exist.
According to Mary Claderone and Nancy Howell Lee (both pro-choice) doctors did 89-90% of the illegal abortions in the decade before legalization. The lie that most illegal abortions were NOT done by doctors was told so that those same doctors could advertise openly and because they knew that more women would agree to submit to a supposedly 'safe' legal abortion than to an illegal one. Legalization did not make abortion safer for the women - just for the abortionists.
I know of three of those back alley abortionists who kept their noses clean -- then went on to kill two women each after legalization: Jesse Ketchum, Milan Vuitch, and Benjamin Munson. I would bet that Carole Schaner, Margaret Smith, Georgianna English, Wilma Harris, Linda Padfield, and Yvonne Tanner would have been safer had their abortionists still been afraid of being charged with murder if they killed a patient.
"Twenty-four-year-old Maura Morales was eight weeks pregnant when she went to Woman's Care Center for an abortion on May 8, 1981.
When she was in the recovery room, her heart went into spontaneous ventricular fibrillation -- irregular heartbeats not capable of effectively pumping blood.
Maura was taken to a hospital, but died that day. Maura was the fourth woman to die at the same facility. The others were Shirley Payne, Myrta Baptiste, and Ruth Montero."
"My 23rd abortion changed my mind about doing abortions forever. This patient was a little overweight and ultimately proved to
be a little farther along than anticipated. This was not an uncommon mistake before ultrasound was readily available to confirm the gestational age. Initially, the abortion proceeded normally. The water
(continued)"When I withdrew the curette, I saw that it was plugged up with the leg of the baby which had been torn off. I then changed techniques and used ring
forceps to dismember the 13 or 14 week size baby. Inside the remains of the rib cage I found a tiny, beating heart. I was finally
able to remove the head and looked squarely into the face of a human being --a human being that I had just killed." Dr. Paul Jarrett
"Eighty-seven percent (87%) of 486 obstetricians and gynecologists had to hospitalize at least one patient this year due to complications of legal abortions." M. Bulfin, M.D., OB-GYN Observer, Oct.-Nov. 1975
Yet the pro-aborts lie and assure women that abortion is 'safe'. And how do they treat the women who trusted them and believed their assurances? They make fun of them because they don't want them to scare potential patients (customers) away.
I have already clearly explained in previous posts that the abortion industry is not legally required to report it each time there is a problem or complication caused by abortion; the reporting is voluntary and IF abortionists choose to report the problems to the CDC, they can claim the complication resulted from pregnancy or childbirth instead. So it makes abortion appear 'safer than childbirth'. You have proven you don't care about owmen being injured or killed by abortionists.
"Embolism (floating objects in the blood that go to the lungs) is another problem. Childbirth is a normal process, and the body is well prepared for the birth of the child and the separation and expulsion of the placenta. Surgical abortion is an abnormal process, and slices the unripe placenta from the wall of the uterus into which its roots have grown. W. Cates et al., Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 132, p. 169
THRILLED? Have you ever actually BEEN to an abortion clinic? Most of the women I've seen look anything but thrilled. A lot of them are weeping and have to lean on their companions just to stagger through the door. They're not a bunch of happy campers.
"Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID) is difficult to manage and often leads to infertility, even with prompt treatment . . . Approximately 10% of women will develop tubal adhesions leading to infertility after one episode of PID, 30% after two episodes, and more than 60% after three episodes." M. Spence, "PID: Detection & Treatment," Sexually Transmitted Disease Bulletin, John Hopkins Univ., vol. 3, no. 1, Feb. 1983
A study from one of the most prestigious medical centers in the world, John Hopkins University, reported: "Occurrence of genital tract infection following elective abortion is a well-known complication." This institution reports rates up to 5.2% for first trimester abortions and up to 18.5% in midtrimester. Burkman et al., "Culture and Treatment Results in Endometritis Following Elective Abortion," Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 128, no. 5, 1977, pp. 556-559.
"One sequel to abortion can be a killer. This is pelvic abscess, almost always from a perforation of the uterus and sometimes also of the bowel," said two professors from UCLA, in reporting on four such cases. C. Gassner & C. Ballard, Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 48, p. 716 as reported in Emerg. Med. After Abortion-Abscess, vol. 19, no. 4, Apr. 1977
"The counselor at our clinic would cry with the girls at the drop of a hat. She would find their weakness and work on it. The women were never given any alternatives. They were told how much trouble it is to have a baby."
would get in trouble with the doctor because then the health center would threaten to send their business elsewhere. All we did was find out how far along they were, tell them when they were going to be finished, get their money, do the abortion, and send them home."
"There was a public health center in a town not far from Denver and they sent a lot of girls to us. They told us they did all the counseling. We weren't allowed to counsel them or even ask them about birth control. We couldn't even tell them what could happen during the abortion. Nothing."
Funny how so many people closely involved with abortion suddenly become "pro-life nut cases."
You don't find many cardiologists suddenly denouncing what they do... even their receptionists seem to be able to do their work without a crisis of conscience.
tcr:You don't find many cardiologists suddenly denouncing what they do... even their receptionists seem to be able to do their work without a crisis of conscience. Excellent point!
"When I first started working there [at the clinic], I had to sit and listen to women answering the phone for at least a month before they would allow me to answer the phone. We had to know exactly what we were doing when we were talking to these women. We had to find out very quickly what their problem was, play on that and get them in the clinic for an abortion. We were very good salespeople."
"Sometimes we lied. A girl might ask what her baby was like at a certain point in the pregnancy: Was it a baby yet? Even as early as 12 weeks a baby is totally formed, he has fingerprints, turns his head, fans his toes, feels pain. But we would say 'It's not a baby yet. It's just tissue, like a clot.'"
Whats the matter. You run out of crap to say, so you throw pro-life quotes out? So long jud. I'm looking for intelligent abortions debates... NOT someone telling a fetus opens it toes!
But a 12-week fetus IS fully formed. At 8 weeks is the transition from embryo to fetus, when all major structures are in place. By 12 weeks, all structures are in place -- even tooth buds are formed in the jaws.
These are facts. Your thinking that these fully-formed human beings are just garbage is an OPINION. And we ought not to base public policy on ill-formed OPINIONS.
"I was trained by a professional marketing director in how to sell abortions over the telephone. He took every one of our receptionists, nurses, and anyone else who would deal with people over the phone through an extensive training period. The object was, when the girl called, to hook the sale so that she wouldn't get an abortion somewhere else, or adopt out her baby, or change her mind. We were doing it for the money."
Nina Whitten secretary at a Dallas abortion clinic
jud: "Women undergoing surgery should have the legal right to be told the truth about the risks."
sueezee: "Are you telling me you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
Sueezee: "Are you telling me you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
There is no other medical procedure where it is legal for info about the risks to be withheld or falsified, only abortion. Women are ASSURED that abortion is 'safe'. Then the clinic 'counselor' lies to them. Then they are made fun of when they end up with complications they were not warned about. Sick.
Education about pregnancy and birth control options.
Offered brochures and other required information
Lab work as needed,including pregnancy and blood tests.
Ultrasound.
Informed consents and medical history.
A face-to-face meeting with a physician in which the risks of the procedure will be explained.The law requires a 24-hour waiting period between the physician visit and the procedure
Planned Parenthood also killed Holly Patterson, Diana Lopez, Vivian Tran, Edrica Goode, and Nichole Williams, along with several other women whose names and dates of death I'm still trying to track down.
They sent Sandra Kaiser for a secret abortion despite her psychiatric contraindications; she then threw herself into traffic and was killed. They referred Christi Stile for an abortion at an unsafe clinic that left her permanently disabled. Does this diminish your enthusiasm even a teensie bit?
sueezee: Pro-lifers got that law passed ("The law requires a 24-hour waiting period between the physician visit and the procedure.") in psite of opposition form Planned Parenthood and the rest of the abortion industry! AND Planned Parenthood and the abortion industry is fighting to get the patient protection right of informed consent stripped away from their patients (customers) again. You're ignorance and lack of genuine concern for women is showing.
I am quoting a post from 'sueezee' as evidence of her motives here.
"eileen:My beautiful 22 yr old daughter died 2 months ago, Sept 13, 2007 on the abortion table.
Sueezee's response to a grieving mother who wants to warn others:
"And, I'm Judge Judy!"
Sueezee admitted in another post (apparently because she thought it would lend credibility to her claims LOL) that 'all' the pro-aborts posting here work in an abortion clinic. I can't find that post anymore...
Did anyone else see the post from Sueezee where she admitted that the choicers posting here work in an abortion clinic? If I can find it again I will repost it. Apparently she didn't know that when her boss the abortionist is paying her to post put-downs in response to a grieving mother's warning about the abortion industry, she was supposed to be posing as a concerned citizen instead of an abortion industry rep... oops
jud:Did anyone else see the post from Sueezee where she admitted that the choicers posting here work in an abortion clinic? LOl, what is THAT? is it that 3rd grade idea that if you convince everyone one person looks bad, it will make you look better. Didn't your mommy teach you any better?
jud:Did anyone else see the post from Sueezee where she admitted that the choicers posting here work in an abortion clinic?
sueezee:LOl, what is THAT? is it that 3rd grade idea that if you convince everyone one person looks bad, it will make you look better. Didn't your mommy teach you any better?
Where did that post go sueezee? Did your boss the abortionist tell you to delete it because you weren't supposed to let us know you work for the abortion industry?
"Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly? There is nothing funny about women being killed by an industry that they have been assured is 'safe'. Shame on you."
The answer is that this grieving mother's memorial to her daughter and warning to others is being targeted by abortion industry employees. This is just more proof of the abortion industry's lack of genuine concern for the lives and safety of women. Typical.
Sueezee: "and I UNLIKE you, don't believe everything that is thrown at me without PROOF.Its why I KNOW not many doctrs performed abortion before it was legal...Why do you fall for all of it?"
Let me guess who told you that lie - your boss the abortionist? Before legalization most doctors did not do abortions, HOWEVER, MOST of the abortions that were done pre-legalization were DONE BY DOCTORS. (Your attempt at deception noted but ineffective.)
jud:Before legalization most doctors did not do abortions, HOWEVER, MOST of the abortions that were done pre-legalization were DONE BY DOCTORS. Do you know what you just said? LMAO! YOu said, most doc didn't do abortions before it was legal, but most were done by doctors before legalization. Did you know pre-legalization and before legalization are the same thing jud? This should be fun!!
How old are you sueezee? What I said made perfect sense. Before legalization there were fewer abortions done because most doctors refused to do them and because since everyone knew that abortion was unsafe and illegal there was much less pressure put on women to abort. BUT the abortions that were done were mostly done by doctors, the few doctors who would stoop so low. There are abortionists who admit this (but not the abortionist you work for?). Have you ever heard of Bernard Nathanson?
jud:What I said made perfect sense. Before legalization there were fewer abortions done because most doctors refused to do them and because since ev yadda yadda yadda
lol, it made no sense at all & your used car salesman fast talk isn't changing that!
jud:Have you ever heard of Bernard Nathanson? Sure, the man who lied about the number of abortion deaths, and the number of abortions he performed? I have no doubt he's your hero. What is it about pro-lifers & lying?
MOST kindergarten teachers are women. But does it follow that most women are kindergarten teachers?
Check Nancy Howell Lee's research, and Mary Calderone's back when she was medical director of Planned Parenthood. THEY are the ones who did the research and concluded that more than 90% of pre-legalization abortions were being done by doctors.
Now you're not just illogical, you're delusional. I'm not judmeffer. But I guess you are so wrapped up in your own little world that there's not room in it for TWO people who disagree with you.
Sueezee doesn't 'think' with logic, since her idea of feminism is to only be equal to the lowest of males, sueezee 'thinks' with her crotch. Because some males are irresponsible, coldhearted and cruel, she wants to be too. Abortion equals feminism to her because it allows her to be as sexually promiscuous and irresponsible as the most lowlife of males. ALL she cares about is abortion so she can live like a sleezee.
Sueezee: "Reportng complicatons? Before I respond, Could you explain, in alittle more detail, what you tihnk that means,please?"
Well then it makes it a tad bit immature and irrespsonsible for you to have been pretending that of course women already have this patient protection, and for you to make fun of citizens who care enough about the lives, safety, and rights of women to criticize the abortion industry for their shoddy reporting practices then doesn't it?
jud:Well then it makes it a tad bit immature and irrespsonsible for you to have been pretending that of course women already have this patient protection I wasn't pretending, its true, but I'd LOVE get your take on it before I slam you!
When people die from heart surgery, it is legally required that it be reported, AND that it be reported AS a death from heart surgery. Those deaths are not hidden under some more general category in an attenpt to make heart surgery appear safer than it really is. And patients undergoing heart surgery have the patient protection right of Informed Consent, the right to be told the truth about the risks before consenting to the surgery.
jud:When people die from heart surgery, it is legally required that it be reported, AND that it be reported AS a death from heart surgery. You're insane. What is "legally required to be reported" mean. You can't answer that can you. I've asked before! The dead persons family gets a death certificcate and thats the end unless there are legal proceedings for some reason. I'll ask again.WHO is it reporeted to when a person dies from heart surgery?
The abortion industry is not REQUIRED to report abortion-caused complications or deaths, the reporting is voluntary and theinjuries and deaths from abortion can be legally hidden under the general category of 'pregnancy/childbirth'.
Not only is nobody required to report, but the CDC staff are notoriously indifferent to counting abortion deaths. Google "latachie veal" and see what you find.
judmeffer:The abortion industry is not REQUIRED to report abortion-caused complications or deaths Are you insane? of cousre it is required just like it is of ANY other medical provider. You people NEVER cease to amaze me. I had no idea people like you exsisted until I came here. I am ashamed to live on a planet that breeds such idiocy.
No, I am not insane. And I used to trust the abortion industry just as much as you still do. I also believed that 'of course' it is reuired to accurately report abortion-caused complications. The abortion industry is not required to tell women about the risks of abortion surgery before they agree to undergo it AND the abortion industry is not required to report the injuries and deaths caused by abortion AND what they do report can be hidden under pregnancy/childbirth complications.
OK, if you really believe (trust) that the abortion industry is legally required to grant their patients the same patient protection rights required for all other medical procedures AND that reporting of all complications and deaths from abortion is mandatory and accurate, then it should be easy for you to find 'pro-choice' politicians and abortionists willing to publicly state that women undergiong abortion should be LEGALLY guaranteed the same protections as for other medical procedures.
jud:then it should be easy for you to find 'pro-choice' politicians and abortionists willing to publicly state that women undergiong abortion should be LEGALLY guaranteed the same protections as for other medical procedures. I cannot even believe you'd say sometng like that. Do you live in a cave? This is 2008. You talk like it's the 1800's.
Sooooo.... Give us an example of a 'pro-choice' politician or an abortionist who publicly states that women undergoing abortion surgery deserve the SAME patient protection rights as is LEGALLY required for ALL other medical procedures.
The challenge I gave you had nothing to do with what you might 'believe', caves, or the 1800s - either post a quote from a so-called 'pro-choice/pro-woman' showing REAL concern about the patient protection rights of aborting women or admit you don't know.
Tell you what, sueezee, you show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE group or politician was in the forefront of trying to shut it down. Show me ONE.
uber: you show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE group or politician was in the forefront of trying to shut it down. Show me ONE. I have NO idea why you're asking me this question. A short backquote of my comment might help.
jud:if you really believe (trust) that the abortion industry is legally required to grant their patients the same patient protection I have no idea what patient protection rights are. Explain?
jud:the same patient protection rights required for all other medical procedures AND that reporting of all complications and deaths from abortion is mandatory and accurate Reportng complicatons? Before I respond, Could you explain, in alittle more detail, what you tihnk that means, please?
OK, you admit you have no idea what patient protection rights are... yet you were willing to pretend that you did and to assume that the abortion industry of course grants them to their patients... The ICEA (Internatiional Childbirth Education Association) had a brochure that explained in detail what Informed Consent really is. Pro-lifers try to pass Informed Consent laws to protect women; pro-choicers either: assume abortion clinic patients are already 'safe' or fight giving women this right.
jud: women undergiong abortion should be LEGALLY guaranteed the same protections as for other medical procedures How are they unprotected? protected from what?
jud:The abortion industry is not REQUIRED to report abortion-caused complications or deaths
sueezee: "lol, so they hide the bodies?"
Actually there was an attempt by one abortion clinic to hide the woman they killed. They had sent her children home and when they returned with an adult relative the clinic staff was stuffing her body into the trunk of her car. But it's evident you don't care anyway. You're all about protecting abortion - not protecting women.
In order for public health officials to count the death, they have to notice it, which means that somebody has to report it. And then the officials have to do their job and actually REPORT the death. A woman would practically have to crawl to Atlanta and die in Lisa Koonin's office with her aftercare instructions still clutched in her hand to have her death counted as an abortion death in the US. Trust me -- I spent six months investigating how they count the dead.
Most of the deaths are from a while back because it takes so long for word to filter out. I only learned about two weeks ago about a woman who died in California on Valentine's day from an abortion at Planned Parenthood.
The point is that legalization was supposed to eliminate the problem of quackery. But it didn't. What are we gonna do about it?
My beautiful 22 yr old daughter died 2 months ago, Sept 13, 2007 on the abortion table. Tell your friends and family, it still happens today...more than we know. Warn them! Abortion kills more than babies....
I am so very sorry for your loss. Reading your post put chills up my spine. I will pass this message on for the rest of my life. Love & Prayers to you and your family.
Thank you...yes, please pass "Laura Hope Smith's" story on. Laura is now a google search term...read her story, share her life and needless death with those who say it doesn't happen. I found it very telling that no one from the "let's give women safe abortions" camp has ever contacted me to see what went wrong and how they can help. Many, many pro life people have called and offered prayers, kindnesses and friendships..and most of all, are telling her story.
Protecting the abortion industry and 'abortion rights' (and 'free sex'?) is not the same as actually protecting women. Making fun of a mother who is grieving the death of her precious 22 year old daughter, a mother who is bravely trying to warn others, is not pro-woman. Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly? There is nothing funny about women being killed by an industry that they have been assured is 'safe'. Shame on you.
jud:Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly Because every person in her has worked in an abortion clinic, done abortions, seen aborted fetus', adopted children who were put up for adoption, and I UNLIKE you, don't believe everything that is thrown at me without PROOF.Its why I KNOW not many doctrs performed abortion before it was legal...Why do you fall for all of it?
Check with the Massachusetts Medical Board, and they can verify that Rapin Osathanondh voluntarily surrendered his medical license in order to halt their investigation into the death of a 22-year-old abortion patient in September of 2007. LOOK THINGS UP. Don't just spit in people's faces because they don't parrot what you want to hear.
Unfortunately many doctors get into the abortion industry BECAUSE they are bad doctors. They know that without the patient protection rights and mandatory reporting requirements required as for other medical procedures, abortion is 'safer' for them to practice than other medical procedures. Also, when abortion became legal the same doctors who were previously called 'back-alley-butchers' continued to do abortions - free to advertise the 'safety' of the abortions they sold.
jud:any doctors get into the abortion industry BECAUSE they are bad doctors.
You have been throughly brainwashed.There no more bad abortion doctors than any other kind!
jud:abortion became legal the same doctors who were calledback-alley-butchers continued to do abortions
Wrong!Doctors did FEW illegal abortions.They were done by grandmothers, etc who said they had medical experience,&in the rear room of Joes bar, by joe, who convinced scared women he could do it.PLease learn.
"You have been throughly brainwashed.There no more bad abortion doctors than any other kind!"
Nope - I WAS brainwashed when I was still a devoted pro-abortion activist (although I never worked in the aboriton industry like you do). Bad doctors know they can still at least do abortions when they have malpractice problems BECAUSE of the regulation and reporting flaws in the abortion industry. But you don't care about the women they endanger anyway - you work for an abortionist.
PLENTY of women died from botched HOMEMADE abortions before Roe was legalized (as well as legalized abortion in various states before '73). It's a risky fucking procedure, and if a woman's desperate enough, she'll take the risk. It DOESN'T MATTER if abortion is legal or not and provided in a clinic or at home by herself!! Surely you'd understand this, ubermom?
I'm so sick of prolifers who think the ONLY way to "solve" this "problem" is MORE REGULATION or to RE-BAN abortion. Please
whoo689 9 months ago
Prohibition of a popular service or product DOESN'T WORK! We've seen it with alcohol, drugs, and so many other things. People will find ways around it, so simply saying, "Let's make it a crime and ban it" does no good. You've gotta get at the ROOT CAUSES of why so many women see the need to have abortions, many of them being very young and feeling desperate, esp. if they have little to no money or job opportunities. THAT would go a long way and do more than regulation.
whoo689 9 months ago
It sickens me that so many anti-abortion advocates do nothing but bitch about it being legal and/or bitch about the women who get the abortions (as well as the abortion doctors) as if they're "sinful" or some bullshit like that, while doing NOTHING to actually help those women to encourage them NOT to get abortions and keep the child, at least to term, if they care SOO MUCH about the fetus!!! Simply bashing abortions and legalization and doing nothing to help women doesn't advance your cause.
whoo689 9 months ago
It just makes you look like arrogant, condescending SOBs with a thirst for vengeance for the fetii that don't actually care about your own cause. I mean, how many actual prolifers in this country have, I dunno, said they'd adopt a pregnant teen mother's child if she agreed to keep it? How many of them gave teen mothers assistance or offered to do so after the child is born to encourage her to keep it?
Not many I'd assume. All you wanna do is bitch about it and do nothing substantive.
whoo689 9 months ago
And the fact is, for all the crap you hear about PP being a "bad" or "evil" organization that does things like "ignores rape" or even "promotes" it, only 3% of their ACTUAL FUNDING goes towards abortion! The rest are very necessary sexual health services for women. Some of that stuff COULD actually prevent more unnecessary pregnancies and/or abortions when done right. But no, the vast majority of you wanna stand on your high horse, bitch about it, and try to further regulate it by law.
whoo689 9 months ago
Plus, some of you are INCREDIBLY hyperbolic in your language. You act like a fucking fetus, including ones that are a week old or less, getting 'killed' is somehow gonna lead to THE END OF THE WORLD. And hell, these are totally nonsentient beings who have NO IDEA who the fuck you people are, at least until birth (if they're born)! What do they care if they're aborted or not? How would YOU know in particular whether or not they really wanted to be born, esp. if they knew the circumstances?
whoo689 9 months ago
It's very presumptuous. At least LIVING beings and humans can consciously say, "I don't wanna die. Protect me." But you anti-abortion folks arrogantly ASSUME that they ALL would wanna "be born" no matter what. You claim being anti-abortion is based on some kind of anti-murder "principle", but it's really just arrogance and presumptuousness. I mean, you're fighting for a group THAT NEVER ASKED FOR IT. Who CARES?? Yes, I don't actively encourage more abortions, but for god sakes...
whoo689 9 months ago
Abortions happen whether you like it or not. Move the fuck on and stop whining. Abortion has existed since AT LEAST the time of the Egyptians! What do you hope to achieve by constantly bashing abortion choice and groups like PP?? You REALLY think it'll just "go away" with illegality again? You're sorely mistaken.
whoo689 9 months ago
Ook... What is this video implying, that they're ALL the result of abortions? That the doctors "killed" them or some bullshit like that?? I'd like to see the evidence. Plus, I'm sure most of them made the conscious decision to get abortions, so they knew what they were getting into. They took the risk. You have no right to try to "stand up for them" as if they would LIKE you to do it or would agree with your stance. You're using them as political pawns. Ugh
whoo689 9 months ago
this video was not meant for making fun of those who underwent an abortion and faced the same fate as the baby, it was meant to show the more detailed truth as to what the risks and outcome of making that choice is. and fyi, after 16 weeks of gestation, the risk of abortion on the life of the woman doubles every two weeks as the pregnancy continues. ie, at 18 weeks it's 2x as risky as giving birth at full term, at 20 weeks it is 4x, etc.
girl08er 1 year ago 2
Protest against torturing prisoners by the FBI, yet support the killing of millions of babies in your own homeland. Hypocrites indeed.
Supporting abortion = encouraging irresponsibility
The whole notion that you can go and sleep with anyone you like, get pregnant and dump the baby because it is a hassle to your way of life is just cruel.
And you all go on and on about the right of the woman to dump to baby, but do you ever think about the right of the baby to live?
fongsiewli 2 years ago 2
the doctors who performed these abortions need to be held accountable. there needs to be work to keep this from happening again.
leiapeison 3 years ago
i curious as to the statistics of women who die giving birth is. no medical procedure is without risk. we simply say that women should be able to take that risk if they want to without being criminalized.
leiapeison 3 years ago
The point is that as long as the abortion is legal, the abortion lobby (the self-appointed guardians of women's lives) doesn't really give a happy shit if she survives it or not. Some of the biggest quacks out there are National Abortion Federation members -- the abortion equivalent of the UL Label. And prochoicers don't hold them accountable for this.
ubermom 3 years ago 2
The women who go to abortion clinics make a conscious CHOICE to do what they did and they sometimes end up dead just like their babies.
I have absolutely NO sympathy for those women. Shame on you!
Pamkay414 3 years ago
Marla Cardamone was browbeaten into her abortion by a hospital social worker who used lies and emotional blackmail.
Allegra Roseberry was told her baby was "doomed" because of her cancer treatments, and that she'd not be able to get into a lifesaving cancer treatment program unless she aborted.
You don't know anything about these women, about their despair or fears. You have no idea what they did or didn't understand about their choices.
Without sin? Then start throwing stones.
ubermom 3 years ago 4
Thank you for saying this. I think you are 100% correct, and I think judging the women who have abortions, undermines why we are so opposed to abortion.
tcrumlett 3 years ago
Christin Gilbert was mentally disabled, unable to give her consent. Her parents arranged the abortion. But you would condemn her because of a choice somebody else made for her.
ubermom 3 years ago
Actually most women report that they have an abortion because they feel they have (ironically) no choice at all. The rhetoric of the so-called pro-choice movement needs to be exposed. And even for those women who go of their own 'free will' I suspect many of them are not aware of the full facts. Abortion may be evil, but it's wrong to condemn women as a group. Let's support THEM and throw those who would make money out of this travesty into jail.
logofreetv 3 years ago
logo:Actually most women report that they have an abortion because they feel they have (ironically) no choice at all. Thats rediculous. There is ALWAYS a choice, all women know what they are, and women ALWAYS choose one. Don't paint women as being ignorant.
sueezee 3 years ago
Really? Lookup 'Madeleine Tope'. It's got nothing to with your idealistic idea that women know what they are doing - it has to do with what ACTUALLY happens. Women feel pressured - and legalizing abortion just makes people have no sympathy for an unexpected pregnancy- hey, just get an abortion. Therefore undermining the need to provide better maternal care and support for pregnant women. What 'Choice'? Abortion is anti-woman, the first feminists hated it.
And btw, it's spelled "ridiculous'
logofreetv 3 years ago
pam:The women who go to abortion clinics make a conscious CHOICE to do what they did and they sometimes end up dead just like their babies. Please learn & not look stupid! Abortion is a VERY safe procedure. It's about twice as safe as a shot of penicillin, and is 11 times safer than giving birth!!
pam: I have absolutely NO sympathy for those women LOLOL, after abortions 97% of women walk out w/ a sense of satifaction & relief! STOP thinking they are sad & need sympathy.
sueezee 3 years ago
Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly?
sueezee: "Because every person in her has worked in an abortion clinic, done abortions, seen aborted fetus', adopted children who were put up for adoption, and I UNLIKE you, don't believe everything that is thrown at me without PROOF.Its why I KNOW not many doctrs performed abortion before it was legal...Why do you fall for all of it?"
judmeffer 3 years ago
These women, and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS that have died by legal abortion should have a MEMORIAL WALL as the victims of the Womb War. They, too, are Veterans. No risks are EVER explained or shared.
So sad, hard to take, really. To die while killing your own child. It truly is beyond words.
Lord Have Mercy.
Xcesschick 3 years ago 2
I agreee Xcesschick ("These women, and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS that have died by legal abortion should have a MEMORIAL WALL as the victims of the Womb War. They, too, are Veterans. No risks are EVER explained or shared. So sad, hard to take, really. To die while killing your own child. It truly is beyond words. Lord Have Mercy.") but unfortunately pro-aborts don't care about dead babies OR dead women - as long as they can have 'free sex' (paid for with so many babies' and womens' lives).
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Certain conditions in a person's past can increase the chance for an ectopic pregnancy. IN GENERAL, about 1 out of 100 pregnancies is outside of the uterus. It is MORE FREQUENT in women who have had prior ectopic pregnancies, or who have had damage to their fallopian tubes. Tubes can be scarred by infection, SURGERY, or endometriosis."
from the Dr Spock website
judmeffer 3 years ago
72 year old woman in convalescent hospital is dropped while being transferred by a patient lift from bed to wheelchair...she died....
sueezee 3 years ago
We did not consider the well-being of the women who had abortions."
Judy W., Office Manager of a Texas abortion clinic
sueezee 3 years ago
"Ectopic pregnancy is the leading cause of pregnancy-related death during the first trimester. In the United States, the reported number of hospitalizations for ectopic pregnancy increased from 17,800 in 1970 to 88,400 in 1989 (1)."
Reference:
1. Goldner TE, Lawson HW, Xia Z, Atrash HK. Surveillance for ectopic pregnancy -- United States, 1970-1989. In: CDC surveillance summaries (December). MMWR 1993;42(no. SS-6):73-85.
judmeffer 3 years ago
"The rate of ectopic pregnancies per 1,000 conceptions increased by 217% from 1971 to 1979."
JAMA - not a pro-life website
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Since 1970, the frequency of ectopic pregnancy has increased 6-fold, and it now occurs in 2% of all pregnancies. An estimated 108,800 ectopic pregnancies in 1992 resulted in 58,200 hospitalizations with an estimated cost of $1.1 billion."
eMedicine internet site - NOT a pro-life site
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Surgery of the reproductive system, bowels, or lower abdomen can lead to scarring, which increases your risk of ectopic pregnancy."
found from a search on ectopic pregnancies
Women should have the right to be warned about this before they agree to have an abortion.
judmeffer 3 years ago
uber: you show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE group or politician was in the forefront of trying to shut it down. Show me ONE.
suez: I have NO idea why you're asking me this question.
Of course you have no idea because you have no genuine concern for the safety of women. I have not heard of any choicers trying to shut down dangerous clinics that are killing women or to even try to make them follow proper procedures. You defend and protect the industry not women.
judmeffer 3 years ago
uber:show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE groupwas trying to shut it down.
suez: I have NO idea why you're asking me this question.
jud:Of course you have no idea because you have no genuine concern for the safety of women. You're an idiot jud and I'm sick of seeing you prove it. Uber (YOU) asked me an IRRELEVANT question, I ask why, and YOU, moronically say its because I dont care about women? I have NO doubt that makes sense to you.And you are uber too!
sueezee 3 years ago
"Abortion Practice" by Warren Hern, M.D., Boulder Colorado Abortionist published in 1984 by the J.B. Lippenott Company. Hern performs abortions up until the 4th month of pregnancy:
"The procedure changes significantly at 21 weeks because fetal tissues become much more cohesive and difficult to dismember" p 154
"A long curved Mayo scissors may be necessary to decapitate and dismember the fetus." - p 154
judmeffer 3 years ago
About 1% of pregnancies are ectopic.. So the number of ectopic pregnancies that aren't discovered after an attempetd abortion (IF thats what your TRYING to say) are.... near NONE!! NEAR NONE!!
Pro-life......... Pro-choice....... Pro-Roe
sueezee 3 years ago
I gave you names. So -- you're saying that those women weren't real? They didn't really die? Or are you just saying that to you they're insignificant?
ubermom 3 years ago
"I gave you names. So -- you're saying that those women weren't real? They didn't really die? Or are you just saying that to you they're insignificant?"
Obviously she's just another of the choicists who sometimes pretends to be concerned about others if she can use that faked concern to try to keep abortion legal. They say they care about starving or abused kids, women killed by illegal abortions, women's rights... but they really ONLY care about 'free sex' and abortion.
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Arms, legs, and chests come out of the forceps. It's not a sight for everybody"
Dr. William Benbow Thompson at the University of California at Irvine
judmeffer 3 years ago
"..the emotional turmoil that the procedure inevitably wreaks on the physicians and staff...There is no possibility of denial of an act of destruction by the operator...the sensations of diSMEMBERMENT flow through the FORCEPS like an electric current."
Abortionist quoted in "Meeting of American Association of Planned Parenthood Physicians" OBGYN News P 196
judmeffer 3 years ago
ABORTION IS LEGAL...WITH ALL YOUR SILLY STATS, ABORTION IS LEGAL..YOU CAN TALK & LIE TILL YOU'RE BLUE IN THE FACE....AND ABORTION IS STILL LEGAL. You're whining serves NO purpose, excpet in your own mind.
sueezee 3 years ago
Abortion is only legal because the normal checks and balances were ignored when 9 male judges overstepped their authority andstripped the citizens of each state the right to legislate on abortion's legality. The status quo legal status of abortion is not supported by the voting public. Citizens have a right to free speech and to participate in the democratic process - REAL RIGHTS - and MOST people really do care about the stats and the safety of women even if you do not.
judmeffer 3 years ago
So, for you the entire point isn't whether or not women are better off. It's purely about the legal status of abortion. As long as it's legal, whatever these guys do to the women is okay and acceptable. The only unacceptable situation isn't a dead woman, it's a law on the books punishing the guy who kills her.
ubermom 3 years ago
(continued) When a woman dies of ectopic pregnancy complications because an abortionist prevented prompt diagnosis and treatment, she's not counted as an abortion death; she's counted among the other pregnancy deaths. Her death is then USED to back the LIE that abortion is safer than childbirth. And women who end up dying from ectopic pregnancies CAUSED BY the scarring from a previous abortion are also added to the deaths from childbirth statistics.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Her death is then USED to back the LIE that abortion is safer than childbirth
According to the UN, 500,000 women die worldwide every year from childbirth, approximately 50,000 per year in the U.S. from all causes and complications of childbirth. According to the CDC(U.S Center for Disease Control) between 4000 and 5000 women in the U.S. died annually from illegal abortions prior to 1973. After abortion became legal and safe, that death rate fell to DOZENS A YEAR!
sueezee 3 years ago
Somebody has been swallowing abortion industry lies. The death rates from illegal abortions dropped way before legalization because of antibiotics. The statistics of women who die from childbirth are falsely inflated by abortion-caused deaths being put into that category. AND abortion causes life-threatening complications in future pregnancies so some of the maternal childbirth deaths are caused by a previous abortion (but not reported as such).
judmeffer 3 years ago
The CDC never said 5,000 women were dying before Roe. That was abortion lobbying groups, who got it from a book 1936 by Frederic Taussig. Taussig repudiated his own numbers in 1942, but the abortion lobby continued to use them, knowing they were false. You have to go to the early 1940s to get more than 1,000 women dying a year -- before antibiotics and transfusions. And that was ALL abortions -- including miscarriages and "therapeutic" abortions done in hospitals legally.
ubermom 3 years ago
jud:When a woman dies of ectopic pregnancy complications because an abortionist prevented prompt diagnosis and treatment
WHAT? One does NOT get an abortion for a ectopic pregnancy! An ectopic pregnancyis where a fertilized egg has implanted OUTSIDE the uterus! 95% of the time in the fallopian tube. It requires surgery NOT an ABORTION!
sueezee 3 years ago
jud:When a woman dies of ectopic pregnancy complications because an abortionist prevented prompt diagnosis and treatment
sueez:WHAT? One does NOT get an abortion for a ectopic pregnancy! An ectopic pregnancyis where a fertilized egg has implanted OUTSIDE the uterus! 95% of the time in the fallopian tube. It requires surgery NOT an ABORTION!
It is the responsibility of the doctor who confirms the pregnancy and/or does the abortion to detect the ectopic pregnancy or the woman may die.
judmeffer 3 years ago
They're not SUPPOSED to perform abortions, but they do, because they process the women like cattle in a slaughterhouse. They don't bother to do a proper ultrasound and find that the embryo is actually in the tube. They vacuum out the empty uterus and send her home thinking she's not pregnant any more. Then when she has symptoms of the ectopic, she and the clinic staff attribute them to the abortion, believing that she can't still be pregnant. The tube ruptures, and often the woman dies.
ubermom 3 years ago
Sueezee's inability to understand the point has got to be faked - just like her faked concern for the rights and safety of women.
Isn't she the poster who called women who trust the clinics "dumbasses"? She scoffs at the info about the risks, but claims the abortion clinic gives the info, then makes fun of women who are injured or killed by abortion because they didn't research the risks themselves BEFORE going to the clinic, then she's back to scoffing at the info about the risks...
judmeffer 3 years ago 4
Google the following women: Janyth Caldwell, Claudia Caventou, Barbara Dillon, Sherry Emry, Gladyss Estanislao, Josefina Garcia, Doris Grant, Yvette Poteat, Angela Satterfield, Laura Sorrels, Magnolia Thomas, Brenda Vise, and Lynette Wallace.
The CDC did a study around the time Sherry Emry died, and found that women who had ectopic pregnancies were more likely to die if they sought abortions because of sloppy practices in abortion facilities that failed to diagnose ectopics.
ubermom 3 years ago
"I'll tell you one thing about D & E. You never have to worry about a baby's being born alive. I won't describe D & E other than to say that, as a doctor, you are sitting there tearing, and I mean tearing- you need a lot of strength to do it- arms and legs off of babies and putting them in a stack on top of the table."
Dr. David Brewer
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:you are sitting there tearing, and I mean tearing- you need a lot of strength to do it- arms and legs off of babies and putting them in a stack on top of the table."
LIE..the extremities are surgically removed. Stop reading and listening to pro-life propaganda. They are making you look ignorant. Do you read The Night Before Christmas and spread THAT nonsense around, too? I have little doubt.
sueezee 3 years ago
"LIE..the extremities are surgically removed." According to the abortionist I quoted, and many others who've given similar descriptions, AND a video of a D & E abortion, the baby's arms and legs are 'surgically removed' by grabbing them with forceps and ripping the baby apart. I guess YOU believe there is some sort of magical 'surgery' wand that just dismembers the baby if you wave it around? You're either ignorant or dishonest.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:the baby's arms and legs are 'surgically removed' by grabbing them with forceps and ripping the baby apart.
If you wold use your head and think. Do you actually think an arm wold come off by pulling it?Its attached by ligaments, bones, muscles, skin, veins etc. At approx 5" long its tough. using ultrasound, the doctor grabs the fetal leg/arm with forceps. Theyare one by one pulled into the birth canal,they are then lacerated and removed. But i want to you to keep spreading your lies.
sueezee 3 years ago
Oh, you're describing a newer late-2nd technique I'd not encountered before. Did this technique replace the one Martin Haskell described, in which they just killed the fetus the day before and let it rot overnight? Do you have some cites so I can add links about it to my web site?
ubermom 3 years ago
jud:I guess YOU believe there is some sort of magical 'surgery' wand that just dismembers the baby if you wave it around? Yes jud dear, its called a scapel "wand"(LOL).A scalpel is a small, butsharp knife used for surgery,particulary anatomical dissection,( AND ats & crafts too!lol) The doctor "waves" it across extremities and they become detached. How old are you?
sueezee 3 years ago
A doctor waves a scalpel across extremeties and they become dismembered sueezee???? How about..a doctor waves it across the babies arms and legs. What kind of idiot are you? LOL. SAY IT FOR WHAT IT IS! :-)
deannacase 3 years ago
Read "Abortion Practice" by Warren Hern. He's one of the founding members of the National Abortion Federation, so you can't dismiss what he writes as antiabortion propaganda.
If you look at court testimony for the PBA bans, you'll also get some fairly graphic descriptions of second-trimester abortions, given by those who do them.
Don't just dismiss what you don't like out of hand. Do a little research.
ubermom 3 years ago
"If we see a doctor out there who's really hurting women, it's incumbent upon us to blow the whistle -- no matter what the outcome. But it's a real choice, because you could end up with someone worse -- or no doctor at all ..."
-- Ron Fitzsimmons, Director of National Coalition of Abortion Providers
Abortion Report, July 7, 1994
judmeffer 3 years ago
Remember this was in response to Tommy Tucker, who had killed one patient, Angela Hall, by abandoning her, and killed another patient in a *Norplant removal procedure*! Imagine what kind of mind-set stops to ponder whether or not to get rid of somebody like that!
ubermom 3 years ago
It's a mindset that sees females as disposable sex objects that they can rich selling drugs, devices, and surgeries to, drugs, devices, and surgeries that enable the owmen to be used for sex minus love and committment. The 'concern' for women they claim as the reason they defend abortion is really just a positive-sounding excuse to sell abortions to women they care nothing at all about. Sueezee posted that she works in a clinic and called women harmed by abortion 'dumbasses'
judmeffer 3 years ago
I think it's more the mentality that abortion is an end in itself.
ubermom 3 years ago
jud:Sueezee posted that she works in a clinic You're a god damned liar, but then we all knew that. I NEVER said I worked in a clinic!!! You have proven you are not credible!!
sueezee 3 years ago
You made the claim that 'all' the pro-choicers posting here knew what abortion really was because you supposedly all worked in clinics... whatever I doubted you were telling the truth anyway.
judmeffer 3 years ago
"To earlier feminists who had fought for the vote and for fair treatment in the workplace, it had seemed obvious that the ready availability of abortion would facilitate the sexual exploitation of women. Women like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton regarded free love, abortion, and easy divorce as disastrous for women and children. They would have regarded women who actively promoted those causes as FOOLISH or DERANGED."
Mary Ann Glendon - Professor of Law at Harvard University
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Mary Ann Glendon
A Catholic, Bush loving, pro-life activist.
sueezee 3 years ago
"[The few doctors willing to replace those who are retiring are] mostly physicians who have had difficulty establishing regular ob-gyn practices. . . Out of [one abortion practitioner's] first six months of work, there are nine malpractice suits ... After it was apparent the guy was a klutz, they kept using him, and trying to cover for him, because they couldn't find another provider."
Robert Crist, abortion doctor, St. Petersburg Times, June 3, 1990.
judmeffer 3 years ago
As if Crist is the one to talk, after he killed Diane Boyd, Latachie Veal, and Nichole Williams.
ubermom 3 years ago
"We try to use the physician for his technical skill and reduce the one-to-one relationship with the patient. We usually see the patient for the first time on the operation table and then not again. More contact is just not efficient."
Abortionist Edward Allred, quoted in The San Diego Union , October 12, 1980
Efficiency equals higher profits - at the expense of patient care and safety. The abortion industry is about the money - not about concern for women.
judmeffer 3 years ago
During a deposition in the Deanna Bell case, Allred admitted that he had never done a preventability assessment after a patient death to see how they could protect other patients in the future. I know of TWELVE patients his mills have killed: Deanna Bell, Chanelle Bryant, Patricia Chacon, Laniece Dorsey, Josefina Garcia, Denise Holmes, Susan Levy, Christina Mora, Kimberly Neil, Joyce Ortenzio, Mary Pena, and Tami Suematsu. And I'd bet there are more, whose families never sued.
ubermom 3 years ago
sueezee: "Planned Parenthoods does..." blah-blah-blah
ANYTHING that PP and the abortion industry provides as patient protection rights is the result of pro-life sponsered legislative efforts. PP openly opposed such patient protection measures being put in place and is trying strip them away from their patients again. It's equivalent to the warning label on a pack of cigarettes - it's ONLY there because concerned citizens fought the industry to get the warning there.
judmeffer 3 years ago
Victoria Woodhull, the first female presidential candidate was a strong opponent of abortion: "The rights of children as individuals begin while yet they remain the foetus." Woodhull's and Claflin's Weekly 2(6):4 December 24, 1870
"Every woman knows that if she were free, she would never bear an unwished-for child, nor think of murdering one before its birth."
Wheeling, West Virginia Evening Standard, November 17, 1875
REAL feminists reject abortion.
judmeffer 3 years ago
sueezee: "97% of women who abort are thrilled to have had the option. It makes the sun shine again for most!"
hmmm sounds like that idiotic myth the Aztecs believed in - that if they didn't sacrifice humans to the sun it wouldn't shine anymore. Also it reveals belief in the outdated myth that female biology is somehow inferior to male biology - that the ABILITY to be pregnant is some sort of defect to be corrected by abortion surgery. Sickos
judmeffer 3 years ago
Eileen: the death of your precious daughter will not go unnoticed AND those who shamefully and cruelly make fun of your loss (while pretending to care about women) are being exposed by their own vile postings as being pro-abortion, not pro-choice, and certainly not pro-woman. People DO CARE about what was done to your daughter - apparently none of the 'people' employed in the abortion industry care though.
judmeffer 3 years ago
Clinics assure women that abortion is 'safe' and that they will be given accurate info about the procedure when they get to the clinic. Then the info is withheld or replaced with lies. Then when the women have a complication they weren't warned about they are made fun of BY the clinic staff for trusting their deception: sueezee: "you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
judmeffer 3 years ago
sueezee: "Are you telling me you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
Just in case anyone reading here is under the false impression that pro-aborts like sueezee care about women. Also, she stated (in a post that is now gone?) that 'all' the por-aborts posting here work at an abortion clinic, have seen abortions, fetuses, etc. (so we should all just trust her claims? LOL)
judmeffer 3 years ago
There is a huge difference between prochoice people and proabortion people. The proabortion people disguise themselves as prochoice and tend to get into leadership position in advocacy groups. They talk the prochoice talk then do proabortion things quietly behind the scenes.
My main goal isn't to convert folks from prochoice to prolife, because once you're prolife nobody will listen. It's to get the prochoicers to demand proCHOICE leadership. I'd say doing THAT would reduce abortions up to 80%.
ubermom 3 years ago
"The dead woman's name was Angela Sanchez."
Thank you, I was trying to remember her name.
Abortionist defender 'sueezee' was making fun of how abortionists hide the fatalities form abortion - asked a 'humorous' question about whether they actually were hiding the bodies. I remembered that was exactly what they got caught trying to do to after they killed Angela. And wasn't that the clinic where the abortionist wasn't even a doctor?
judmeffer 3 years ago
Yup. The doctor had quit so the owner just called herself "Dr.Hanna" and went to work.
ubermom 3 years ago
"We do have bad practitioners. And it's affecting all of us. And we have been reluctant to do anything or say anything or whatever because of the physician shortage. We don't want bad press, but when something happens, under our breaths we all say, 'Well, it was just a matter of time.'"
National Abortion Federation
Risk Management Seminar participant
September 1994
judmeffer 3 years ago
"We want to make sure that women have choices when it comes to abortion services, and if you regulate it too strictly, then you deny women the access to the service."
Barbara Radford
National Abortion Federation Executive Director
CBS News, 60 Minutes, April 21, 1991
Here's the deal: The NAF SELLS it's endorsement to any abortion clinic that buys it. The NAF refers trusting women to so-called 'safe' NAF endorsed clinics. But the implied safety regulations don't exist.
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Our NAF members are the best abortion providers in the country."
Susan Shapiro, NAF Spokeswoman
October 19, 1995
The NAF refers women to abortion clinics who PAY to get the NAF endorsement. If the women end up dead the NAF doesn't care.
judmeffer 3 years ago
According to Mary Claderone and Nancy Howell Lee (both pro-choice) doctors did 89-90% of the illegal abortions in the decade before legalization. The lie that most illegal abortions were NOT done by doctors was told so that those same doctors could advertise openly and because they knew that more women would agree to submit to a supposedly 'safe' legal abortion than to an illegal one. Legalization did not make abortion safer for the women - just for the abortionists.
judmeffer 3 years ago
I know of three of those back alley abortionists who kept their noses clean -- then went on to kill two women each after legalization: Jesse Ketchum, Milan Vuitch, and Benjamin Munson. I would bet that Carole Schaner, Margaret Smith, Georgianna English, Wilma Harris, Linda Padfield, and Yvonne Tanner would have been safer had their abortionists still been afraid of being charged with murder if they killed a patient.
ubermom 3 years ago
"Twenty-four-year-old Maura Morales was eight weeks pregnant when she went to Woman's Care Center for an abortion on May 8, 1981.
When she was in the recovery room, her heart went into spontaneous ventricular fibrillation -- irregular heartbeats not capable of effectively pumping blood.
Maura was taken to a hospital, but died that day. Maura was the fourth woman to die at the same facility. The others were Shirley Payne, Myrta Baptiste, and Ruth Montero."
Hey but sueezee doesn't care...
judmeffer 3 years ago
"My official title at the mill was "health worker." I did various duties-lab work, leading groups (deceiving women about their
abortions), "advocating" (deceiving women during their abortions), and assisting the abortionist, which included helping during
the abortion and checking to make sure all the parts of the baby were there in the collection jar afterwards."
Dina Madsen
judmeffer 3 years ago
"My 23rd abortion changed my mind about doing abortions forever. This patient was a little overweight and ultimately proved to
be a little farther along than anticipated. This was not an uncommon mistake before ultrasound was readily available to confirm the gestational age. Initially, the abortion proceeded normally. The water
broke, but then nothing more would come..."
judmeffer 3 years ago
(continued)"When I withdrew the curette, I saw that it was plugged up with the leg of the baby which had been torn off. I then changed techniques and used ring
forceps to dismember the 13 or 14 week size baby. Inside the remains of the rib cage I found a tiny, beating heart. I was finally
able to remove the head and looked squarely into the face of a human being --a human being that I had just killed." Dr. Paul Jarrett
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Eighty-seven percent (87%) of 486 obstetricians and gynecologists had to hospitalize at least one patient this year due to complications of legal abortions." M. Bulfin, M.D., OB-GYN Observer, Oct.-Nov. 1975
Yet the pro-aborts lie and assure women that abortion is 'safe'. And how do they treat the women who trusted them and believed their assurances? They make fun of them because they don't want them to scare potential patients (customers) away.
judmeffer 3 years ago
What is "legally required to be reported" mean. You can't answer that can you. I've asked before
sueezee 3 years ago
I have already clearly explained in previous posts that the abortion industry is not legally required to report it each time there is a problem or complication caused by abortion; the reporting is voluntary and IF abortionists choose to report the problems to the CDC, they can claim the complication resulted from pregnancy or childbirth instead. So it makes abortion appear 'safer than childbirth'. You have proven you don't care about owmen being injured or killed by abortionists.
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Embolism (floating objects in the blood that go to the lungs) is another problem. Childbirth is a normal process, and the body is well prepared for the birth of the child and the separation and expulsion of the placenta. Surgical abortion is an abnormal process, and slices the unripe placenta from the wall of the uterus into which its roots have grown. W. Cates et al., Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 132, p. 169
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Childbirth is a normal process So is abortion.97% of women who abort are thrilled to have had the option. It makes the sun shine again for most!
sueezee 3 years ago
THRILLED? Have you ever actually BEEN to an abortion clinic? Most of the women I've seen look anything but thrilled. A lot of them are weeping and have to lean on their companions just to stagger through the door. They're not a bunch of happy campers.
ubermom 3 years ago
"Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID) is difficult to manage and often leads to infertility, even with prompt treatment . . . Approximately 10% of women will develop tubal adhesions leading to infertility after one episode of PID, 30% after two episodes, and more than 60% after three episodes." M. Spence, "PID: Detection & Treatment," Sexually Transmitted Disease Bulletin, John Hopkins Univ., vol. 3, no. 1, Feb. 1983
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Pelvic Inflammatory Disease
LOLOLOL.........
What is "legally required to be reported" mean. You can't answer that can you. I've asked before
sueezee 3 years ago
A study from one of the most prestigious medical centers in the world, John Hopkins University, reported: "Occurrence of genital tract infection following elective abortion is a well-known complication." This institution reports rates up to 5.2% for first trimester abortions and up to 18.5% in midtrimester. Burkman et al., "Culture and Treatment Results in Endometritis Following Elective Abortion," Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 128, no. 5, 1977, pp. 556-559.
judmeffer 3 years ago
"One sequel to abortion can be a killer. This is pelvic abscess, almost always from a perforation of the uterus and sometimes also of the bowel," said two professors from UCLA, in reporting on four such cases. C. Gassner & C. Ballard, Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 48, p. 716 as reported in Emerg. Med. After Abortion-Abscess, vol. 19, no. 4, Apr. 1977
judmeffer 3 years ago
"If a woman we were counseling expressed doubts about having an abortion, we would say whatever was necessary to persuade her to abort immediately."
Judy W., former office manager of the second largest abortion clinic in El Paso, Texas
judmeffer 3 years ago
"The counselor at our clinic would cry with the girls at the drop of a hat. She would find their weakness and work on it. The women were never given any alternatives. They were told how much trouble it is to have a baby."
former abortion worker Debra Harry
judmeffer 3 years ago
(continued)
"If we tried to discuss alternatives, we
would get in trouble with the doctor because then the health center would threaten to send their business elsewhere. All we did was find out how far along they were, tell them when they were going to be finished, get their money, do the abortion, and send them home."
Registered nurse Sam Griggs
judmeffer 3 years ago
"There was a public health center in a town not far from Denver and they sent a lot of girls to us. They told us they did all the counseling. We weren't allowed to counsel them or even ask them about birth control. We couldn't even tell them what could happen during the abortion. Nothing."
Registered nurse Sam Griggs
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Registered nurse Sam Griggs
a pro-life nut case!
sueezee 3 years ago
Funny how so many people closely involved with abortion suddenly become "pro-life nut cases."
You don't find many cardiologists suddenly denouncing what they do... even their receptionists seem to be able to do their work without a crisis of conscience.
tcrumlett 3 years ago 3
tcr:You don't find many cardiologists suddenly denouncing what they do... even their receptionists seem to be able to do their work without a crisis of conscience. Excellent point!
sueezee 3 years ago
"When I first started working there [at the clinic], I had to sit and listen to women answering the phone for at least a month before they would allow me to answer the phone. We had to know exactly what we were doing when we were talking to these women. We had to find out very quickly what their problem was, play on that and get them in the clinic for an abortion. We were very good salespeople."
-Joy Davis
judmeffer 3 years ago
"Sometimes we lied. A girl might ask what her baby was like at a certain point in the pregnancy: Was it a baby yet? Even as early as 12 weeks a baby is totally formed, he has fingerprints, turns his head, fans his toes, feels pain. But we would say 'It's not a baby yet. It's just tissue, like a clot.'"
--Kathy Sparks
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud: 12 weeks a baby is totally formed,
Whats the matter. You run out of crap to say, so you throw pro-life quotes out? So long jud. I'm looking for intelligent abortions debates... NOT someone telling a fetus opens it toes!
sueezee 3 years ago
But a 12-week fetus IS fully formed. At 8 weeks is the transition from embryo to fetus, when all major structures are in place. By 12 weeks, all structures are in place -- even tooth buds are formed in the jaws.
These are facts. Your thinking that these fully-formed human beings are just garbage is an OPINION. And we ought not to base public policy on ill-formed OPINIONS.
ubermom 3 years ago
"I was trained by a professional marketing director in how to sell abortions over the telephone. He took every one of our receptionists, nurses, and anyone else who would deal with people over the phone through an extensive training period. The object was, when the girl called, to hook the sale so that she wouldn't get an abortion somewhere else, or adopt out her baby, or change her mind. We were doing it for the money."
Nina Whitten secretary at a Dallas abortion clinic
judmeffer 3 years ago
Evidence of sueezee's shallowness of concern:
jud: "Women undergoing surgery should have the legal right to be told the truth about the risks."
sueezee: "Are you telling me you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
judmeffer 3 years ago
preserving evidence of sueezee's depth of ignorance:
jud:SINCE the reporting of abortion-caused injuries and deaths is only voluntary
sueezee: "There is NO Need to report ANY medical procedure injury,unless there are legal ramifications, and if there is,who is it " reported" to?"
judmeffer 3 years ago
Sueezee: "Are you telling me you are backing stupid women who,if not told,(but we all know they are)don't take it upon themselves to find out risks of procedures?Thats being pro-dumbass."
There is no other medical procedure where it is legal for info about the risks to be withheld or falsified, only abortion. Women are ASSURED that abortion is 'safe'. Then the clinic 'counselor' lies to them. Then they are made fun of when they end up with complications they were not warned about. Sick.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:legal right to be told the truth aboutrisks.
Planned Parenthoods does:
Education about pregnancy and birth control options.
Offered brochures and other required information
Lab work as needed,including pregnancy and blood tests.
Ultrasound.
Informed consents and medical history.
A face-to-face meeting with a physician in which the risks of the procedure will be explained.The law requires a 24-hour waiting period between the physician visit and the procedure
sueezee 3 years ago
Planned Parenthood also killed Holly Patterson, Diana Lopez, Vivian Tran, Edrica Goode, and Nichole Williams, along with several other women whose names and dates of death I'm still trying to track down.
They sent Sandra Kaiser for a secret abortion despite her psychiatric contraindications; she then threw herself into traffic and was killed. They referred Christi Stile for an abortion at an unsafe clinic that left her permanently disabled. Does this diminish your enthusiasm even a teensie bit?
ubermom 3 years ago
sueezee: Pro-lifers got that law passed ("The law requires a 24-hour waiting period between the physician visit and the procedure.") in psite of opposition form Planned Parenthood and the rest of the abortion industry! AND Planned Parenthood and the abortion industry is fighting to get the patient protection right of informed consent stripped away from their patients (customers) again. You're ignorance and lack of genuine concern for women is showing.
judmeffer 3 years ago
I am quoting a post from 'sueezee' as evidence of her motives here.
"eileen:My beautiful 22 yr old daughter died 2 months ago, Sept 13, 2007 on the abortion table.
Sueezee's response to a grieving mother who wants to warn others:
"And, I'm Judge Judy!"
Sueezee admitted in another post (apparently because she thought it would lend credibility to her claims LOL) that 'all' the pro-aborts posting here work in an abortion clinic. I can't find that post anymore...
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Sueezee admitted in another post (apparently because she thought it would lend credibility to her claims .. More elementary school mentality?
jud:Sueezee's response to a grieving mother who wants to warn others: gez jud, you must have had a horrible childhood!
sueezee 3 years ago
Did anyone else see the post from Sueezee where she admitted that the choicers posting here work in an abortion clinic? If I can find it again I will repost it. Apparently she didn't know that when her boss the abortionist is paying her to post put-downs in response to a grieving mother's warning about the abortion industry, she was supposed to be posing as a concerned citizen instead of an abortion industry rep... oops
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Did anyone else see the post from Sueezee where she admitted that the choicers posting here work in an abortion clinic? LOl, what is THAT? is it that 3rd grade idea that if you convince everyone one person looks bad, it will make you look better. Didn't your mommy teach you any better?
sueezee 3 years ago
jud:Did anyone else see the post from Sueezee where she admitted that the choicers posting here work in an abortion clinic?
sueezee:LOl, what is THAT? is it that 3rd grade idea that if you convince everyone one person looks bad, it will make you look better. Didn't your mommy teach you any better?
Where did that post go sueezee? Did your boss the abortionist tell you to delete it because you weren't supposed to let us know you work for the abortion industry?
judmeffer 3 years ago
I posted this question:
"Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly? There is nothing funny about women being killed by an industry that they have been assured is 'safe'. Shame on you."
The answer is that this grieving mother's memorial to her daughter and warning to others is being targeted by abortion industry employees. This is just more proof of the abortion industry's lack of genuine concern for the lives and safety of women. Typical.
judmeffer 3 years ago
Sueezee: "and I UNLIKE you, don't believe everything that is thrown at me without PROOF.Its why I KNOW not many doctrs performed abortion before it was legal...Why do you fall for all of it?"
Let me guess who told you that lie - your boss the abortionist? Before legalization most doctors did not do abortions, HOWEVER, MOST of the abortions that were done pre-legalization were DONE BY DOCTORS. (Your attempt at deception noted but ineffective.)
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Before legalization most doctors did not do abortions, HOWEVER, MOST of the abortions that were done pre-legalization were DONE BY DOCTORS. Do you know what you just said? LMAO! YOu said, most doc didn't do abortions before it was legal, but most were done by doctors before legalization. Did you know pre-legalization and before legalization are the same thing jud? This should be fun!!
sueezee 3 years ago
How old are you sueezee? What I said made perfect sense. Before legalization there were fewer abortions done because most doctors refused to do them and because since everyone knew that abortion was unsafe and illegal there was much less pressure put on women to abort. BUT the abortions that were done were mostly done by doctors, the few doctors who would stoop so low. There are abortionists who admit this (but not the abortionist you work for?). Have you ever heard of Bernard Nathanson?
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:What I said made perfect sense. Before legalization there were fewer abortions done because most doctors refused to do them and because since ev yadda yadda yadda
lol, it made no sense at all & your used car salesman fast talk isn't changing that!
jud:Have you ever heard of Bernard Nathanson? Sure, the man who lied about the number of abortion deaths, and the number of abortions he performed? I have no doubt he's your hero. What is it about pro-lifers & lying?
sueezee 3 years ago
You've missed the logic.
MOST kindergarten teachers are women. But does it follow that most women are kindergarten teachers?
Check Nancy Howell Lee's research, and Mary Calderone's back when she was medical director of Planned Parenthood. THEY are the ones who did the research and concluded that more than 90% of pre-legalization abortions were being done by doctors.
ubermom 3 years ago
OOPs, I forgot..I wasn't going to respond to ubermom's posts because you are also judmeffer. Consider this over & disregard last message.
sueezee 3 years ago
Now you're not just illogical, you're delusional. I'm not judmeffer. But I guess you are so wrapped up in your own little world that there's not room in it for TWO people who disagree with you.
ubermom 3 years ago
ubermom: "You've missed the logic."
Sueezee doesn't 'think' with logic, since her idea of feminism is to only be equal to the lowest of males, sueezee 'thinks' with her crotch. Because some males are irresponsible, coldhearted and cruel, she wants to be too. Abortion equals feminism to her because it allows her to be as sexually promiscuous and irresponsible as the most lowlife of males. ALL she cares about is abortion so she can live like a sleezee.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:sueezee 'thinks' with her crotch You seem to love crotches and uteruses, why don't you keep your nose out of them? OR keep it in your own! LOL
sueezee 3 years ago
Sueezee: "Reportng complicatons? Before I respond, Could you explain, in alittle more detail, what you tihnk that means,please?"
Well then it makes it a tad bit immature and irrespsonsible for you to have been pretending that of course women already have this patient protection, and for you to make fun of citizens who care enough about the lives, safety, and rights of women to criticize the abortion industry for their shoddy reporting practices then doesn't it?
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Well then it makes it a tad bit immature and irrespsonsible for you to have been pretending that of course women already have this patient protection I wasn't pretending, its true, but I'd LOVE get your take on it before I slam you!
sueezee 3 years ago
When people die from heart surgery, it is legally required that it be reported, AND that it be reported AS a death from heart surgery. Those deaths are not hidden under some more general category in an attenpt to make heart surgery appear safer than it really is. And patients undergoing heart surgery have the patient protection right of Informed Consent, the right to be told the truth about the risks before consenting to the surgery.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:When people die from heart surgery, it is legally required that it be reported, AND that it be reported AS a death from heart surgery. You're insane. What is "legally required to be reported" mean. You can't answer that can you. I've asked before! The dead persons family gets a death certificcate and thats the end unless there are legal proceedings for some reason. I'll ask again.WHO is it reporeted to when a person dies from heart surgery?
sueezee 3 years ago
The abortion industry is not REQUIRED to report abortion-caused complications or deaths, the reporting is voluntary and theinjuries and deaths from abortion can be legally hidden under the general category of 'pregnancy/childbirth'.
judmeffer 3 years ago
Not only is nobody required to report, but the CDC staff are notoriously indifferent to counting abortion deaths. Google "latachie veal" and see what you find.
ubermom 3 years ago
judmeffer:The abortion industry is not REQUIRED to report abortion-caused complications or deaths Are you insane? of cousre it is required just like it is of ANY other medical provider. You people NEVER cease to amaze me. I had no idea people like you exsisted until I came here. I am ashamed to live on a planet that breeds such idiocy.
sueezee 3 years ago
No, I am not insane. And I used to trust the abortion industry just as much as you still do. I also believed that 'of course' it is reuired to accurately report abortion-caused complications. The abortion industry is not required to tell women about the risks of abortion surgery before they agree to undergo it AND the abortion industry is not required to report the injuries and deaths caused by abortion AND what they do report can be hidden under pregnancy/childbirth complications.
judmeffer 3 years ago
OK, if you really believe (trust) that the abortion industry is legally required to grant their patients the same patient protection rights required for all other medical procedures AND that reporting of all complications and deaths from abortion is mandatory and accurate, then it should be easy for you to find 'pro-choice' politicians and abortionists willing to publicly state that women undergiong abortion should be LEGALLY guaranteed the same protections as for other medical procedures.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:then it should be easy for you to find 'pro-choice' politicians and abortionists willing to publicly state that women undergiong abortion should be LEGALLY guaranteed the same protections as for other medical procedures. I cannot even believe you'd say sometng like that. Do you live in a cave? This is 2008. You talk like it's the 1800's.
sueezee 3 years ago
Sooooo.... Give us an example of a 'pro-choice' politician or an abortionist who publicly states that women undergoing abortion surgery deserve the SAME patient protection rights as is LEGALLY required for ALL other medical procedures.
The challenge I gave you had nothing to do with what you might 'believe', caves, or the 1800s - either post a quote from a so-called 'pro-choice/pro-woman' showing REAL concern about the patient protection rights of aborting women or admit you don't know.
judmeffer 3 years ago
Tell you what, sueezee, you show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE group or politician was in the forefront of trying to shut it down. Show me ONE.
ubermom 3 years ago
uber: you show me a seedy abortion clinic where any kind of PROCHOICE group or politician was in the forefront of trying to shut it down. Show me ONE. I have NO idea why you're asking me this question. A short backquote of my comment might help.
sueezee 3 years ago
jud:if you really believe (trust) that the abortion industry is legally required to grant their patients the same patient protection I have no idea what patient protection rights are. Explain?
jud:the same patient protection rights required for all other medical procedures AND that reporting of all complications and deaths from abortion is mandatory and accurate Reportng complicatons? Before I respond, Could you explain, in alittle more detail, what you tihnk that means, please?
sueezee 3 years ago
OK, you admit you have no idea what patient protection rights are... yet you were willing to pretend that you did and to assume that the abortion industry of course grants them to their patients... The ICEA (Internatiional Childbirth Education Association) had a brochure that explained in detail what Informed Consent really is. Pro-lifers try to pass Informed Consent laws to protect women; pro-choicers either: assume abortion clinic patients are already 'safe' or fight giving women this right.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud: women undergiong abortion should be LEGALLY guaranteed the same protections as for other medical procedures How are they unprotected? protected from what?
sueezee 3 years ago
jud:The abortion industry is not REQUIRED to report abortion-caused complications or deaths
lol, so they hide the bodies?
sueezee 3 years ago
jud:The abortion industry is not REQUIRED to report abortion-caused complications or deaths
sueezee: "lol, so they hide the bodies?"
Actually there was an attempt by one abortion clinic to hide the woman they killed. They had sent her children home and when they returned with an adult relative the clinic staff was stuffing her body into the trunk of her car. But it's evident you don't care anyway. You're all about protecting abortion - not protecting women.
judmeffer 3 years ago 2
The dead woman's name was Angela Sanchez.
ubermom 3 years ago
In order for public health officials to count the death, they have to notice it, which means that somebody has to report it. And then the officials have to do their job and actually REPORT the death. A woman would practically have to crawl to Atlanta and die in Lisa Koonin's office with her aftercare instructions still clutched in her hand to have her death counted as an abortion death in the US. Trust me -- I spent six months investigating how they count the dead.
ubermom 3 years ago
agreed
bvazquez09 4 years ago
I don't think this woman is saying anyone's choice to abort should be revoked. She's just listing a memoriam of women who died from this procedure.
Why not open heart surgery? Maybe it doesn't affect her as much as the deaths of young women from an elective surgery.
Take note that most of the people listed died 15 years or more ago. I hope that means the crappy doctor's are being thrust out of the game.
asmoore84 4 years ago
Most of the deaths are from a while back because it takes so long for word to filter out. I only learned about two weeks ago about a woman who died in California on Valentine's day from an abortion at Planned Parenthood.
The point is that legalization was supposed to eliminate the problem of quackery. But it didn't. What are we gonna do about it?
ubermom 4 years ago
My beautiful 22 yr old daughter died 2 months ago, Sept 13, 2007 on the abortion table. Tell your friends and family, it still happens today...more than we know. Warn them! Abortion kills more than babies....
eileenmarie11 4 years ago
I am so very sorry for your loss. Reading your post put chills up my spine. I will pass this message on for the rest of my life. Love & Prayers to you and your family.
kymbself 4 years ago
Thank you...yes, please pass "Laura Hope Smith's" story on. Laura is now a google search term...read her story, share her life and needless death with those who say it doesn't happen. I found it very telling that no one from the "let's give women safe abortions" camp has ever contacted me to see what went wrong and how they can help. Many, many pro life people have called and offered prayers, kindnesses and friendships..and most of all, are telling her story.
eileenmarie11 4 years ago
eileen:My beautiful 22 yr old daughter died 2 months ago, Sept 13, 2007 on the abortion table. And, I'm Judge Judy!
sueezee 3 years ago
Protecting the abortion industry and 'abortion rights' (and 'free sex'?) is not the same as actually protecting women. Making fun of a mother who is grieving the death of her precious 22 year old daughter, a mother who is bravely trying to warn others, is not pro-woman. Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly? There is nothing funny about women being killed by an industry that they have been assured is 'safe'. Shame on you.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:Why are you so devoted to abortion that you would treat a grieving mother so cruelly Because every person in her has worked in an abortion clinic, done abortions, seen aborted fetus', adopted children who were put up for adoption, and I UNLIKE you, don't believe everything that is thrown at me without PROOF.Its why I KNOW not many doctrs performed abortion before it was legal...Why do you fall for all of it?
sueezee 3 years ago
Check with the Massachusetts Medical Board, and they can verify that Rapin Osathanondh voluntarily surrendered his medical license in order to halt their investigation into the death of a 22-year-old abortion patient in September of 2007. LOOK THINGS UP. Don't just spit in people's faces because they don't parrot what you want to hear.
ubermom 3 years ago
Tis woman's daughter DIED. Google it, you heartless swine, and quit dancing on this girl's grave.
ubermom 3 years ago
Unfortunately many doctors get into the abortion industry BECAUSE they are bad doctors. They know that without the patient protection rights and mandatory reporting requirements required as for other medical procedures, abortion is 'safer' for them to practice than other medical procedures. Also, when abortion became legal the same doctors who were previously called 'back-alley-butchers' continued to do abortions - free to advertise the 'safety' of the abortions they sold.
judmeffer 3 years ago
jud:any doctors get into the abortion industry BECAUSE they are bad doctors.
You have been throughly brainwashed.There no more bad abortion doctors than any other kind!
jud:abortion became legal the same doctors who were calledback-alley-butchers continued to do abortions
Wrong!Doctors did FEW illegal abortions.They were done by grandmothers, etc who said they had medical experience,&in the rear room of Joes bar, by joe, who convinced scared women he could do it.PLease learn.
sueezee 3 years ago
"You have been throughly brainwashed.There no more bad abortion doctors than any other kind!"
Nope - I WAS brainwashed when I was still a devoted pro-abortion activist (although I never worked in the aboriton industry like you do). Bad doctors know they can still at least do abortions when they have malpractice problems BECAUSE of the regulation and reporting flaws in the abortion industry. But you don't care about the women they endanger anyway - you work for an abortionist.
judmeffer 3 years ago
judmeffer, do you have your conversion story posted anywhere?
ubermom 3 years ago