Togo to pick new leader in key democracy test vote

[sondreborseth]

remember the chaos. stayed on a vessel in togo fro a while 

[cw1310]

I wish people in Canada, and the United States were that excited about voting.

[Steadno]

you can do it

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno Voting is not democratic. In true democracy there are no authorities who decide for the people, instead the people have the duty to run the society and decide things.

[Steadno]

@tee yet in a democracy the leaders come from the people

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno Define what you mean by a leader and from the people. They are not true in voting.

[Steadno]

@tee well leader as in head of city, county, state or country. one who ensures there is runnung water, crops, police, schools, jobs, hospitals etc.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno What's your take on from the people?

[Steadno]

@tee a person who dwelled among the common society as in lived

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno so people would support him because he was part of them, knows their suffering and wants to help them? Is it compatible with having a duty in deciding things?

[Steadno]

@tee that is a huge part. one must be able to do the job too.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno So we need tyrants, not democracy, because people are dumb?

[Steadno]

@tee most of the world operates under tyranny. religion is tyrannical by nature. billions live under this world wide.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno Then it is not a democracy.

[Steadno]

@tee now ya got it

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno If it's not a democracy then the leaders are not coming from the people as you claimed.

[Steadno]

@tee a leader can come from the people no matter how they govern.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno No, a leader that is undemocratic is against the people.

[Steadno]

@tee yet they are still a leader from the people.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno True, change the society, change the tyrannic political order. But from my point of view tyrants want to win the people, and the leaders who really are from the people don't and instead they would act in a unselfish manner. Democratic leaders work as to empower the rest.

[Steadno]

@tee true democracy is tyranny of the majority.

[teemuruskeepaa]

I think you have a wrong idea about democracy. You object democracy based on that. You have look at what we have in the West, an oligarchic pseudodemocracy, and you think nihilistically, that's what democracy is and you can't accept that for the wrong reason. You have a wrong reason because most people today think democracy protects from selfish leaders who use violence to get their will. People believe voting does all that but it is hypocritical. You don't know anything about the reality.

[Steadno]

@tee thomas jefferson spoke of tyranny of the majority which why the u.s. is a representative democracy i.e. republic. at the end of the day we have to trust that the votes are counted right and with millions voting there is no way. democracy is an illusion.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno Hey, Thomas Jefferson's comment has become a cult. I know his tyranny of the majority, but still I think you use that as a proof of something. Jefferson actually didn't mean "this is it" but "it's not what you think". He like Karl Marx too had a moral and political interest in talking about their society. Jefferson meant if it is a tyranny of majority, it isn't a democracy. Marx meant if it creates social exclusion, it isn't a free market. Democracy should be the solution for tyranny.

[Steadno]

@tee yet the u.s. is a republic for this reasen. cant have 51% running over 49%...it can get hairy when dealing with 300 million people.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno Democracy is not a tyranny, it is meant to stop tyrants and lift the oppressed, just like socialism. Most people know it, even if misguided about voting, and it was especially true in its original context, the first democracy in Greece in 500 - 300 B.C. Democracy is a good thing but it has been foiled by exterior problems that most people haven't been able to avoid, spot or solve.

[Steadno]

@tee greece was no true demcracy, she had slaves. so much for 'uplifting the oppressed' huh. the u.s. had slaves too and yet again.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno Good point, when asked the people, they will usually vote 51/49. It's crazy! It is a clue that points to the problems in democracy. In democracy there is a 100 % approval. Greece had a relative true democracy, just like our Western one. Just part of the people have the right to take part in decision making but among them they don't dictate each other, relatively speaking, although the politician do only fight for their win nowadays.Buttheoryof democracy stands right. Argue the authority

[Steadno]

@tee true the government is twisted at all levels!

[teemuruskeepaa]

Democracy is not a tyranny, it is dialogue between people in politics, allowed dialogue that is not hindered by violence or hierarchy. Dialogue, debate, argument is democracy and it is meant to end tyranny and fix all misunderstandings.

[Steadno]

@tee true democracy lets the majority dictate to the minority.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno true democracy lets the people debate about problems instead of submitting to them coming from the majority, thus preventing that dichotomy of majority and minority ever even forming. Like I told you already, that is not called democracy, not even by Jefferson.

[Steadno]

@tee Main Entry: de·moc·ra·cy

Pronunciation: \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural de·moc·ra·cies

Etymology: Middle French democratie, from Late Latin democratia, from Greek dēmokratia, from dēmos + -kratia -cracy

Date: 1576

1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority...

[teemuruskeepaa]

No problem, rule of the majority in versus rule by oligarchy (few rich men for their own benefit.). But I think there is a history of misinterpretation of democracy for the last 2000 years. Just like Christianity too, Socialism etc. Actually all these progressive ideas have been systematically foiled, probably by the ever ruling oligarchy. Democracy is not ruling actually, but debate instead. Grant the power of veto and debate for the majority and you get fear of losing control by minority.

[teemuruskeepaa]

From here is it simple to go over the line of truth. 2 options: get the minority to debate on equal basis or make up a lie that the majority is trying to impose their ideas just because they got the power to do so. And so has the minority been doing for 2000 years.

[Steadno]

@tee sounds utopian. nice in theory but kaput in practice. those with power never hand it over. they make you think you have no power OR that you have some power to sedate your revolutionary ideas.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno If you call me revolutionary, you are evolutionary.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno evolutionary means essentialist thinking, that what exists is necessary and other things are inferior. Even if it meant you being a slave, heck, it's in your blood lmao

[Steadno]

@tee most are revolutionary in word but beeyaathes in action...

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno I wouldn't accept action that in against my democratic ideals. Most revolutionaries would.

[Steadno]

@tee you wont know until you have a ak-47 to your head...the rest is just bravado my friend.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno Disregard that removed comment. I just think you are a very prejudiced and mad-hearted person. Nobody should follow that way of thinking. There are no enemies, not even in control-freaks, violent fascist parties etc. And there is more alternatives to talking and way of life what you believe. You don't have solutions and that talk is just about your inner desperation. We will treat is as such.

[Steadno]

@tee prejudice no realistic yes. you might think you reside in a democracy but when you are dealing with millions of people you have no way to verify your own vote let alone millions of other people. therefore you trust a fox to protect chickens.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno I said I reside in a pseudodemocracy. You said Democracy is unwanted because don't understand what it means. I explained you throughly what it means yet you still lie about both my opinion and your own. As I said, your thinking goes a very eccentric and prejudiced path. It is quite religious in nature, and we have to be careful with you. You are one of those superior extermists who live by some extreme marginal beliefs.

[Steadno]

@tee well sir a 'pseudo-democracy' is no democracy...it either is or it isnt. its like being dead or alive...either or. only weak, powerless serfs and peasant lust for democracy cause it gives the illusion that we (yes we) have power. a king doesnt want democracy and neither does your boss at work. religion doesnt want democracy and neither does the guy with the tech 9 to your head.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno No, you have been trying to prove democracy is a tyranny. You are not defending democracy or trying to fix my misunderstanding of democracy. You seem very confused.

[Steadno]

@tee i have told you what jefferson said and why the u.s. isnt a democracy.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno You might be having a psychosis.

[Steadno]

@tee i think you are projecting AGAIN.

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno That's the first you tell me that

[Steadno]

@tee well only in those exact words

[teemuruskeepaa]

@Steadno But you wanted to impress me by lying that you have said it before, but failed because I haven't heard it before.

[Steadno]

@tee 'impress you' lol...you have zero power so i have no desire to impress you. i didnt say it in the same exact way. read through my comments.

[teemuruskeepaa]

You hope I have zero power and that's what you aim to accomplish by first pressing me into defence about how you have allegedly been telling me all the time that "I'm projecting things" as I claimed you are in a psychosis, and then by using the audience to discredit me by making them believe a bunch of interesting versions of our conversation. Seriously, I caught you messing up your thoughts by making an analysis of your mental state. I see that you now removed you lapse. Good, itdiscreditedyou

[teemuruskeepaa]

It was the first time for me to be hearing about "me projecting things" and you planned poorly your attack against my reputation, and I caught you hesitating by provocation. I'm still figuring you out actually. Something between fascist, psychotic or a troll.

[Steadno]

@tee you must be a freshman psychology major at your local community college. you are trying too hard and in turn are completely missing my point. i will smelt it all down to this. If you believe that you live in a democracy when and how do you verify that your vote AND the votes of your coutryfolk as well? let me know meh.

[teemuruskeepaa]

I live a pseudodemocracy, which is thought to be true democracy but truly is not. You are trying to say we don't democracy because pseudodemocracy to you is the only possible form of democracy. I've proved you wrong, like it or not.

[Steadno]

@tee you must not know what 'pseudo' means. i think you are mistaking it for 'quasi.' look them up and return for your bare ass spanking.

[teemuruskeepaa]

I wrote you already what it means. I suggest you start reading all my comments through really slowly and carefully. I give you the permission to ask help if you can't see their factual value. You may begin now. Ass spanking? Who is doing that anyway?

[Steadno]

@tee you didnt answer the question i keep asking you. how do you verify your votes...your and your countryfolk?????

[Steadno]

@tee how do you verify your votes...yours and your countryfolk???????????????

[teemuruskeepaa]

I figured 4th character for you. Somewhere in USA there are those narrowminded people who kind of just live the local American life, sure about their supremacy and unaware of symbols outside the country as it is. You don't really have understanding of anything. You are simple and shallow, mediocre person. But in your little world nobody has ever confronted you and you always win your community members in games irrelevant to us. I picked the ice and found your ignorance and your social method.

[Steadno]

@tee now you tangent off into open and direct insult attempts. this mean you are getting to the bottom of the barrel. listen up i might have some of those attributes but what redeems me is that i am just an average person who will likely never be rich or famous. now can you say the same thing too?

[Steadno]

@tee again over calibration. spend more time thinking and less time analyzing minutia. the only power you have is maybe to be a tad annoying. in reality you or i have zero power. people with power dont desire democracy cause this causes them to give power to the majority of the populous.