Thomas Campbell is a Nuclear scientist but with Dalai Lama level of spirituality. He explains the double slit experiment which is a fundamental part of quantum mechanics. No B.S. just facts. Although you do have to be a far from the middle scientist and not stuck in blinding cultural/personal beliefs which is a rare human these days. Youtube (twcjr44)
What a painful and frustrating linguistics and communications carwreck this is...
Really unfortunate that the scientist doesnt speak english or explain concepts very well... And that the Dalai's English is limited as well. Funny at times as the Tibetan's huddle together, then the scientist rambles indirectly and with a thick accent. Yikes.
Whether it's easy 2 "understand" or not is not the issue. What's the issue is that the "authorities" of this world, live by lies. "Reality" tv shows that most definitely are at least partly scripted; SEVERAL bogus answeres IN A ROW as 2 why WE INITIATED WAR on a country that DID NOT COMMIT 9/11; the illegal torture of prisoners of war; the fact that we are in bed with the Saudis who are the source of the most radical forms of Islam; fact that President was Skull&Bones(Black Sun/Golden Fleece/SS)
I think that alot of quantum&rlated physics is as much mumbojumbo as anything else.They call it science & speak in such a way as2b hard2follow/confusing(even stating that it is "simple")so that u will think that it is simply above ur head and that they are much smarter than u,when really,they r not saying anything that is coherent or that makes any sense at all.They just take so long2get2the point and are dealing with such "lofty" concepts that most give up.Stay calm&focused&know that u decide.
@soweru8 well i guess its hard to understand for some, i suspect you are one of the them, no offence. quantum physics/mechanics is actually quite easy to understand and apply to society, probability, math, religion and more.. just open your mind.
I'll Laugh for His Holiness :))))))))))) - "I AM THE ANTICHRIST, AND I SAY, BRING YOUR IPHONE TO MECCA, 40 DAYS AFTER THE 23rd of December, AND WATCH ME SHRED THE KABHA WITH MY HAMMER AS THOR THE THUNDER GOD, AND THE ANTICHRIST !!"
"we are not aloud to talk about the path, unless we measure the path" This is where I think Science in general fails since nothing can truly be measured, ever seen a fractal image? you try to count an object within it, it cannot be measured, you think you find a square or a circle but zoom in a bit and its made of an infinite number of infinetly complex shapes. Science might aswell not talk about anything if thats the guidelines it must follow.
You explain to H.H. the basic elements of quantum physics, dumb ass Teutonic !? Did you know that Tibetan Buddhism especially to the high level to a Lama passes though the Tao of the Physics where the concept of the vacuum and the double qualities of particles creating the reality when matter collapses,doesn't need scientific tools to know all that and more.....I feel embarrass for him! Lucky that HH Tenzing Ghiatzo is a great compassionate tolerant Soul!
@madalene2012 Not everyone has had the priviledge of becoming a Boddhisatva. And even when you do become one, Science still helps to understand, for example during some of my visions I saw the cells in my body, organs etc in lucid visual manifestations, however if I never looked through a microscope I would not have known what I was seeing. Self doubt is very hard to remove and Science helps even the most advanced practitioners. It's not about tolerance, clearly H.H enjoyed this.
@ZelatorUK You are talking nicely, thank you! When I met HH personally in a small group in Hymachal Pradesh during a Tibetan Medicine workshop for professionals, I got straight away His humbleness + His well known sense of humor (+ an amazing contagious well-being). I still think that the vision of the cells in the body doesn't need confirmation of microscope, as happened with the acupuncture meridian map. I believe HH enjoys cause He is extremely positive, playful and..diplomatic.
The Relativists here have mathematized abstract metaphysics (the Buddha did not tolerate metaphysics of any kind). This is a leap, not into reality (yathabhutam), but rather a leap, with mathematics, into science fictions. There are no worm or black holes - no warped space, a big bag, or light that is either wave or particle, or a sun that works by nuclear fusion. These are fictions.
@MindWalker123 they report to the lama because he is the equivalent or rather a step above in knowledge of the worlds greatest physics professors. The word for this is mutual respect and humility. What kind of person has a problem with this ?
@trustinstinct well my beloved brother, why don`t you ask your self that question? What made you think that I have a problem? I said "I love it". What is your interpretation telling you about your self? ;-))))
@MindWalker123 your negativity resounds a four layer smiley face and constant sarcasm are what we good energy people would call a trickster or deceiver. be kind
You quote "Maybe knowledge is as fundamental, or even more fundamental than reality." ... nice catch. I'd ask for 1 refinement: s / knowledge / information, i.e. "Maybe information is as fundamental, or even more fundamental ..."
@tremben Part of HHDL's reply, "and so it makes no sense to talk about phenomenon that is independent of observation." And so it appears that there's agreement.
@KTK401 We do not accept an external god as a creator. So we are truly the only atheist religion. Regarding the myriads of "gods" in the Mahayana/Vajrayana schools of buddhism, these are forms used for visualization purposes, such as the 5 elements, emotions both positive and negative. Formless phenomena that we put name and colour to in order to relate to them as "real".
is what the pope shits every day - read his books and you get an idea what the pope knows about the quantenphysik - what is your respect worth??? Shit Head
My response to this video is quite simple. The reason these quantum particles seem to respond without pattern is because we do not have any device that can isolate each particle in a testable environment without outside interference with other unknown variables. I believe that every action has a cause wither you see it or not. Inferring that these particles respond without pattern while disregarding a possible unknown cause or flaw in testing methods is breaking the rules of science.
Numbers are not meaningful, is my main point here. Until i came in to contact with the Buddha's teachngs my life just felt like the elliott smith song "everything means nothing to me"? (on youtube). I don't see how QM changes the existential problem, which is infinity, emptiness and the bringing of nothingness. Only buddhism has helped me with those things.
What if a photon has a carrier wave ? Just like a boat on the waving sea, its not the particle that interfers, but the wave its traveling within. Has noone thought on that ??
@emendozer "Buddhism and Quantum Physics are the same.."
This is complete and utter tripe. But rather than just tearing it apart, I'll ask you to explain in your own words what Quantum Mechanics actually is. In claiming that QM is the same as Buddhism you are implicitly claiming you know what QM is in the first place. My guess? You've been reading or watching a bunch of pseudoscience gobbledygook. If they are really the same thing, why is the Dalai Lama so obviously clueless about QM?
@emendozer I'm not quite sure what you mean by "win". But I'll take "pushing someone to think more deeply about a topic" over "winning" any day. Understanding the difference between a scientific model and a mystic religion is far from "pointless". Often it happens that someone says something to me which I know is incorrect. But to properly refute it, I end up having to study, and verify my facts. And I usually end up learning something on the way. I would still encourage you to think about it.
@emendozer In fact I've studied New Kadampa Buddhism. (Have you ever studied any form of Buddhism?) I'm well aware of the "It's not a religion" sales point. But in truth, by any reasonable operational definition of the word, Buddhism is a religion. Robes, monks, monasteries, prophet figures, baseless metaphysical dogma, promise of an afterlife. It's all in there. Meanwhile, QM is a concrete, very well tested mathematical model of our Universe @ small scales. QM & Buddhism have nothing in common.
@sbergman27 thanks for your sneering response. You do realise that all you do is reveal you troubled and irritated state of your mind with such pajorative mud slinging no? In any case, i agree that mathematics can explain a lot. I disagree that it is transcendent however. For example, no person knows what dark matter is in QM, it is merely infered with mathematics. That's not science, that's groping in the dark. IMO mathematics needs to stick to observable data.
No. It is, itself, now observational data. It was originally inferred from the observational data of Zwicky, Rubin & others. But today we have actual maps of it. We observe it directly via grav lensing. (See "Bullet Cluster".) What's lacking is a label. WMAP data tells us it's a CDM particle (or particles). Something like a neutrino but more massive. My bet's on the neutralino. Time & experiment will tell.
@sbergman27 to continue .... there's no need for extremely complicated and speculative mathematics in the feild of QM. All life is organised according to constants including the golden ratio phi, 1.618 (supreme harmony), the fine structure constant 1/137.508. Geometry can reveal to us, the harmony underlying the universe, but it doesn't give us a reason to live, or a way of living. For that, one needs a keenly developed sense of intuition.
@dressrehearsalrags You've gone completely off the deep end, here. It looks like you've just posted some random stuff you saw on WP without understanding it. (Why would you do that, I wonder.) But since you are now claiming some mastery of science... perhaps you would like to explain some of it to me. Pretend I don't know what QM is. Or the (rather poorly named) fine structure constant. And I can't wait for your explanation of how the golden mean relates. Did you Google that Eurekalert paper?
BTW, I had intended to mention that 1/137.508 is not the fine structure constant. The FSC is known to about 12 significant digits. And it's nowhere near 1/137.508.
@sbergman27 .... in your acrimonious dealings with people, blocks your ability to feel inner harmony in the long-run. My advice is to ditch the inflated ego, and start all over again from a place of humble equinimity.
You're one to talk. Anyway, to me, the real, measurable, verifiable Universe is so magnificent & wondrous that I cannot imagine how anyone could ask for more. If you feel the need to make something up to believe in, or to seek predigested stuff that other people have made up, you can do that. But although your ignorant arrogance annoys me a bit, I do honestly feel a bit sorry for you. I thought about you while I was on Sandia Peak today.
@sbergman27 You come already in a state of annoyance - that much is clear. Sneering at people across the internet is not something that a spiritualy mature person does.
@dressrehearsalrags The difference between you & me is that when you see a rainbow you see a rainbow. That's it. When I see a rainbow I see the same beautiful rainbow & appreciate it as much. But I then consider that the same principle as produces it also allows us to discover the compositions of stars & the atmospheres of planets in our solar system. & soon even of exoplanets. An O₂ signature would almost certainly mean life. You see the rainbow but still need something made up to give meaning.
Respond to this video... intuition is something you have or you don't have. Though, as tantric practice attests, it is something that can be developed. Your egocentrism and by extension over-rationalisation will block your ability to FEEL the nature of things. You grasp on to rationalisation because you feel you excel in that area, thus it gives you an inflated sense of self, which makes you feel secure in your existance. Unfortunately, what makes you feel secure....
Who are you trying to convince? I only ask because you've allotted so many valuable chars in this thread not to the discussion @ hand but to your own pronouncements regarding other people's psychological conditions. You started out diagnosing LooksAeterna as having "autism". And now every time you feel backed into the corner by facts you make some new diagnosis regarding me. It makes me wonder a little about *your* stability.
@sbergman27 we are only able to capture a snapshot of infinity by using observable data. That's why science and mathematics will always be too reductive in its explanation of such things. There's also the issue of intuition. Meditiation can help one develop the sense of intuition. There are powers that some people posses that transcend any materialist explanation. Even declasified CIA documents reveal that remote veiwing is a real thing, which is acknowledged by the CIA itself.
@dressrehearsalrags You desperately need to learn mathematics. Mathematics is by far the most expansive of human accomplishments. All sciences & arts pale in comparison. Reductionist? It can be when it want's to. But also transcendent. As abstract or concrete as it likes. Any landscape imaginable, worldly or not, can be explored by mathematics. How can I describe this to someone who only knows arithmetic? It's like presenting the Mona Lisa to a farm animal. Maybe "Hotel Infinity" would help you.
@dressrehearsalrags (cont'd) Regarding your drivel about intuition (whatever that is), the CIA, & "remote viewing". All I can say is that it must be strange believing the kinds of nonsense that you do. Assuming your CIA claims are not completely false.. the CIA is hardly a bastion of science data. Every time so-called "remote viewing" is put to a blinded test, it fails. In poorly designed, nonblinded ones it sometimes does better. Hm... what could that mean? Phil Plait has some good articles.
The scientist asked: "Is knowledge fundamental and maybe more fundamental than reality ?"
The flag waving in the blowing wind. Is the flag moving or is the wind moving? The observation of the quantum universe with particles moving within it. Is the particles moving or is the quantum universe moving ?"
The Zen master answered: " It is neither the particle nor the quantum unvierse is moving, thou hearts are moving."
Observation within one's confinement is always constrained.
@sgxbroker "It is neither the particle nor the quantum unvierse is moving, thou hearts are moving."
Meaningless metaphysical gobbledygook. Einstein covered reference frames much *meaningfully* in Special Relativity. And "Zen master" obviously doesn't even understand the question of "quantum interpretation". It's not enough anymore to say deep sounding stuff in "wise" language. To play (meta)physics you need facts, logic, & agreement with observational data. Otherwise, better stick to "ethics".
@sgxbroker Tell you what. If you really & truly believe the "Xen master" nonsense you posted, then why don't you jump off the roof of a tall building. And on the way down, contemplate whether it is you moving, the air moving, the ground moving, or just your "heart moving". Go ahead. Do the experiment. And let us all know how it turns out.
Peace, your experiment has been repeated many times throughout the world.
As all are within, the result within is repeatative.
Leaf fell from the trees, returning back to the earth. Energy within released and transformed within to another form, all within the confinement. Until, one can exit this confinement, then it move away from this reality.
What is the total amount of energy within this reality, this quantum universe ?
@sgxbroker "your experiment has been repeated many times throughout the world."
Diane Linkletter comes to mind. But I'll take this to mean you lack conviction.
"What is the total amount of energy within,,,this quantum universe?"
ΛCDM is the best cosmological model for answering that. It might surprise you to learn that the net energy is within about a gigajoule of being zero. For reference, that's equivalent to about $25 of electricity. Science is *so* much more powerful than superstition.
@sgxbroker Nice copy & paste. Too bad you don't understand a word of it. At any rate, as ΛCDM includes General Relativity, it does indeed address DE with the Cosmological Constant (the energy of empty space). DM is addressed via the SM & SUSY (the neutralino being the top candidate particle). And the "curvature perturbations" bit is just saying we've not yet enough data to standardize on a particular inflation model. But the quote you plagiarized doesn't really relate to my answer to you.
@sgxbroker $25 of energy to create a whole Universe isn't an interesting enough implication? Anyway, it's the symmetry between the positive energy of empty space + the matter/energy in it, & the negative energy of gravity that results in the net 0. Quantum uncertainty makes the initial $25 energy possible. Extra dimensions? I don't know. String Theory is really only an elegant set of hypotheses right now. A strength of science is that it's comfortable saying "we don't know". Unlike religion.
Well, I should hope not! Getting there isn't half the fun. It's most of it. Cosmology is my thing. I would like to live to see us probe beyond the 370,000yr curtain of the CMB & actually see the first moments after the Big Bang with Gravitational Wave or Neutrino Telescopes. To have a solid idea where the BB came from & what our Universe' ultimate fate is. Confirmation of intelligent life outside our solar system would be nice. But if I don't, that's OK, too.
@sbergman27 you think you can describe eternity and infinity with numbers? That is just nonsense. Both concepts go beyond description by numbers. Quantum physics therefore cannot tackel metaphysics, but Buddhism can.
@dressrehearsalrags You haven't had much (any?) math. You are confusing math with arithmetic. (A common mistake for the math-ignorant.) There are whole branches of mathematics, particularly within set theory, which deal with many different types of infinities. But I suppose people incapable of dealing with real science & math still wan't to have something to believe in that is simple & facile enough for them to understand, even if it is completely fictitious. And Buddhism fits that bill.
@dressrehearsalrags (cont'd) What's really a shame, though, is that as a consequence, many people go through life believing in the simple & facile substitutes for real understanding, like christianity and buddhism, and completely miss the numinous experience of coming to understand the real Universe. It's a process. You never finish. And it's a lot of hard (and fun) work. But the results deliver a richness that you'll never find in your self-inconsistent "Fisher-Price" world of religion.
@sgxbroker (cont'd) You & your mystical religion will do fine as long as you stick to ethics & perhaps some subset of philosophy. But as soon as you try to step onto the highway of science with your woefully outmoded & outclassed metaphysical dogma, you're going to get run over, every time, by a more systematic, evidence-based approach. And it's not just you. The Hindus, Muslims, & Christians are all in the same boat. Hindus & Buddhists do seem quicker to at least partially accept that reality.
The scientist asked: "Is knowledge is fundamental and maybe more fundamental than reality ?"
The flag waving in the blowing wind. Is the flag moving or is the wind moving? The observation of the quantum universe with particles moving within it. Is the particles moving or is the quantum universe moving ?"
The Zen master answered: " It is neither the particle nor the quantum unvierse is moving, thou hearts are moving."
Observation within one's confinement is always constrained.
I understand that you think it's civil to call people stupid, backward and medieval, thus i surnise that you probably are autistic. Are you sure that you know of what you speek. My understandng is that it usually takes many years of dedicated LIVING of Buddhism to understand it. Intellect is only a tool that is used to start the journy, but you need to walk the talk and surreder ego to experience the knowledge. I would start again with these thoughts if i were you.
@dressrehearsalrags "you think it's civil to call people stupid, backward and medieval"
I called the bahvior of organizing such an event stupid, and I called the nyaya "philosophy" they try to graft onto the subject backward and medieval, not people. Of course, the whole culture there is backward and medieval, and there is nothing opinionated about it. Any sensible person IN THAT culture would have to agree.
If you would not suffer from dyselxia and severe mind poisons, you would have noticed.
@LooksAeterna yes you called the people stupid. Stop squirming to suit yourself and take some responsibility for you unsociable behaviour. I'd also like to add that Buddhism means different things to different people. Because Buddhism isn't just analytical, it is a living and embodied philosophy. It doesn't make sense to analysie it in an empiricist manner. In fact the Buddha's teachings eveloved organically in his own life time. So don't get caught up to much on banal details.
"It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about, say, Chess openings with the Lamas and Great Chess Champions, becaus being a Lama doesn't qualify for chess (or QM)."
But I will say that you are beset with a severe personality disorder. You need help. But not from me. Leave me alone now. Stop misusing this video commentary section as a toilet for your mental illness.
@dressrehearsalrags (contd.) "My understandng is that it usually takes many years of dedicated LIVING of Buddhism to understand it."
Finally: stop switching the subject. Buddhism is not the topic here. My comments were about the topic of the video which is NOT buddhism.
"that you probably are autistic"
As I said before: "Even if this mix of arrogance, callousness, falsehood and ignorance were true, it would be a logical fallacy". You smear campaign is clear sign of YOUR mental distubrance.
@sbergman27 aside from being a circular argument, the simplstic spade analogy is painfully reductictive. Buddhism aims at harmony, and generally aims to avoid pajorative mud-slinging. It's anti-autistic in that sense. "lookslikeastirrer" could have raised particular objections to Nyaya, but instead resorted to name calling. That person is anything but Buddhist.
@dressrehearsalrags In fact it's very easy to demonstrate that the metaphysical baggage of Buddhism is not based upon any foundation of evidence. It's as made up as any other religious dogma. The Dalai Lama finds it expedient to *appear* less hostile to science than some other religious monarchs.
I find it amusing that you're the only 1 in the conversation who has not studied Buddhism from the inside. And also that you're trying to claim the moral high ground when you were the 1 being nasty.
"It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about" ... "backward medieval scholastic system" that is a simple fact." Ok i've now realised that you suffer from autism. I've heard that a drug called Resperidone can help with the lack of social skill that comes from over-agitation of the brain. Otherwise a few deep breaths and some meditation may be of use. In any case i wish you all the best in your struggle to overcome the emotional problems that plague you.
@dressrehearsalrags "you suffer from autism....overcome the emotional problems that plague you. "
Even if this mix of arrogance, callousness, falsehood and ignorance were true, it would be a logical fallacy to try to use this to justify your rhetorical depravities and false argumentation.
As regards my statements regarding the Tibetan scholasticism, you have to remember that I spent roughly a year studying under eminent Khenpos studying the stuff 6 days/week all day. I know whereof I speak.
@LooksAeterna i would also add that you will not find out what the Llamas think simply by talking to them any more than a blind person will know what a stool looks like from a description coming from a person with 20/20 vision. Some truths can only be known through lived, embodied expereince. No amount of verbose posturing will help you to understand Budhism i'm afraid.
Anyone who even has a remote idea of "autistic" would know that an autist wouldn't even talk to you.
"i would also add that you will not find out what the Llamas think simply by talking to them"
Again: stop imputing onto me your facile, obnoxious, hate filled assumptions. I have no problem with the truth in buddhism (not of !) and spent months on retreat and partially seen the light already. That doesn't mean I agree with all the off topic garbage in it.
@LooksAeterna that's not true. Autistic people are often irritable and lacking in an idea of what is socially appropriate. Coming to think of it, a couple of autistic people i have met claim to be into Buddhism, but their behavior toward other humans is anything but Buddhist. They call people stupid and think it's a fine thing to do. What is it with all these fake Buddhist autistic people? They reject the world that they can't function in, then pay no mind to the Buddha's message.
@LooksAeterna ... I think the autistic Buddhists understand the intellectual side of Buddhism, but when it comes the intuitive spiritual aspect, they have trouble letting go of the ego which is based upon their intellect, so their intuition is blocked, making meditation on compassion and other things impossible. Does that sum you up fairly?
@LooksAeterna I'd like to add also, to any other autistic people that may be reading, i'm sure that not all of you are like LooksAeterna. Some of you have become self aware enough to avoid the kind of intolerant nasty behavior exhibited by that person. We should all have compassion for this poor being however. Obviously quite an undeveloped being with a long way to go along the spiritual path. That doesn't mean we are better than him, just a bit further along the path. All the best.
@dressrehearsalrags I think your behvavior is a pretty good demonstration of the detrimental effects of THEIR buddhism on their minds. I am grateful that your persistence in this behavior is more convincing than my words could ever be.
That said, of course, your whole base smear campaign does not pertain to the subject of the video OR to my original comment which you just want to distract from.
What I meant was the post-"enlightenment" "occidentals" who are hell-bent to force their mind back into the blue meme of spiral dynamics in hopes of being devout buddhists in the traditional sense which is totally impossible and only results in severe mental distortions as your behavior demonstrates.
@LooksAeterna you are rude and arrogant, as pointed out by several people here. Your shallow egocentric intellectectual posturing shows you to be anything but a Buddhist. This is the problem with you. It's unrefined autistic behaviour, which undermines everything else all your claims to authority re Buddhism. Are you completely un-self-aware? Buddhism aims to create self-awareness. Something you appear to be immune to.
@dressrehearsalrags "you are rude and arrogant, as pointed out by several people here"
I've not noted LooksAeterna being either rude or arrogant in the thread. In fact, he's exhibiting great equanimity in the face of your *repeated* personal attacks. Take a chill pill, dear.
" backward medieval scholastic system" - "I do not in fact have respect of any frivolous stupidity. That doesn't mean I lack respect for the stupid. " No wiggle room there for you I'm afraid. That is uncivil rubbishing and poo pooing. Squirm all you like. Also of course they're discussing the same thing. It's the infinite and eternal that's under discussion. The problem with the scientific approach is that it seeks to quantify the unquantifiable. This is where the Buddhist approach excels.
1. "backward medieval scholastic system" that is a simple fact and easily demonstrable. If you disagree, it is a lack of education on your side. In particular it is the case - as mentioned - for the Lama's use of a non-buddhist nyaya which they here unsiccerssfully try to graft onto the subject. A truth is no candidate for incivility.
2. "It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about, say, Chess openings with the Lamas and Great Chess Champions, becaus being a Lama doesn't qualify for chess (or QM).
OBVIOUSLY to anyone who can read this doesn't refer to the Lamas, but to a hypothetical organizer of a summit of Lamas with Chess Champions. And I am likening the ORGANIZERS of this event (likely some new age hippies that share your scientific superficiality) to the hypothetical orgs.
Obviously your enthusiasm for these Lamas does not help you develop some basic goodness of human character such as proper reading before falsely insulting your vis a vis in a discussion by imputing things onto him he did not say, such as "you rubbish and poo poo these people" (on the video) which I did not.
3. "It's the infinite and eternal that's under discussion."
Well, your delusion is insurmountable. They are trying to explain the problems of QM. Not the same. Grow up.
4. Interesting that you made it a point to avoid inserting your last retort as a reply to mine, probably in hopes I would overlook it and you could "enjoy" your uncorrected smear campaign at the end of the discussion (previously you had properly replied, so it's not as if you didn't know). What low depravity ! I noticed these insiduous character flaws a lot in all these buddhists. And it is not that they had them before, their religious zeal actually generates such baseness.
" backward medieval scholastic system" - "I do not in fact have respect of any frivolous stupidity. That doesn't mean I lack respect for the stupid. " No wiggle room there for you I'm afraid. That is uncivil rubbishing and poo pooing. Squirm all you like. Also of course they're discussing the same thing. It's the infinite and eternal that's under discussion. The problem with the scientific approach is that it seeks to quantify the unquantifiable. This is where the Buddhist approach excels.
Just pointing out what people can take from Buddhism in regards to transcending the schisms/focus on doctrinal points. With regard to the less important doctrinal issues raised in this video, last night i attended a Tibetan Lama's teaching on the non-existence of external phenomena, and i raised the idea that it could be seen as gelling with the most recent quantum mechanics. We also happened to have a professor of particle physics there. There seemed to be an agreement that ...
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They SHOULD HAVE PREPARED AN ANIMATION to illustrate the point! I can't believe for something this big...50 people gathered...cameras...this scientist has ONE PICTURE to communicate something so complex. Pathetic.
Yes, this phenomena is easy to interpret and understand when you have studied the Buddha's original scriptures, which of course HH the Dalai Lama and the monks have. - Without an observer there would be no phenomena in the world.
the problem here lies in the fact that ....the physicist is too technical....and the buddhist is too philosophical !! so instead of relying too much on the specifics ,they should have established a discussion/debate on the commonality of physics and buddhism.....obviously ,they both command a certain sense of mastery over their respective field.its just that it started on the wrong foot.
You can tell by his body language that the Dalai was completely lost during the double slit explanation and he refused to make eye contact with Prof Zeilanger. This says allot doesn’t it? Also, when the translator took over, His Holiness remained frozen, his body was turned away from Zeilanger and you can tell that he was at a complete loss of what to do or say. The translator however seemed calm because he understands better. You need years of education to wrap your head around this stuff!
@godno1god man I was looking and I know the basics of quant.mech. and IT WAS PUT IN A VERY BAD WAY, with one shitty picture like we in 80s :(( nobody would understan d that explanation, thats a shame of moderators
Its sad that quantum physicists are so desperate to know what is going on that they take the Dalai Lama's medieval circus at all seriously! Read the book Karma Cola and u will realize that this sort of tom-foolery has been going on since the 1960's! Like why would these eastern guys know what Einstein and Schrodinger struggled with?
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This should have been the ultimate discussion for my "Philosophie, Physik, Spiritualität" playlist
buuuuuuuuut so far I am through parts 1-3 and am disappointed. Why did they waste everybody's time ? They should have given those religious types a simple introductory video IN ADVANCE of the conference so that they understand what the basic problem the double slit experiment brings up, such as is on my playlist "Die Quantenphysik" 1 - 2.
(contd.) as it is, they are just talking past each other. It's embarrassing, the Lamas don't understand the first thing about the problem and try to use the occasion to find some confirmation for totally unrelated bits and pieces for their backward medieval scholastic system which mostly isn't even buddhist as such but largely derived from nyaya.
I happen to know since I wasted a lot of time on studying buddhist scholasticism, and as profound as the essence of buddhism is, this baggage isn't.
@LooksAeterna I'm afraid you didn't understand, they are in complete agreement. The scientific findings here go perfectly ahead with the ancient buddhist teachings.
You cannot be in agreement with someone you obviously don't understand. Apparently, you do not even understand about science NOR buddhism ( studied both) to even see clearly that the Lamas haven't a clue what he is talking about except to reiterate their unrelated buddhist concepts.
If you want to see a connection between madhyamaka and modern physics, THE ONLY place to look for is Allan Wallace and his: "Choosing Reality".
@LooksAeterna Your respeonses sgot a really negative vibe to it. Not so much lovingkindness and tolerance. The ego knows things, but it refuses to let go of the illusion of Self. There is nothing you can achieve with a intolerant heart.
@thomasnordwest "Your respeonses sgot a really negative vibe to it."
bwaha, thank you, wonderful ! I wonder what a truly realized Lama (like mine) would tell you if you came to him with this fluffy new age crap ! You know, I studied under these masters closely, for years, months on end, 6 days a week. I happen to know what they think of the kind new age baloney that you express here.
And BTW, y'can't claim in the name of buddhism that something which they claim doesn't exist knows anything !
@LooksAeterna You have a very disrespectful tone in your writing. Looks like you are so realized that you are allowed to be rude and showing off with your spiritual achievements, all behavior that really doesn't impress me. A simple person with a simple mind but a sweet compassionate heart impresses more 1000 times more and is a million times closer to enlightenment.
@thomasnordwest "showing off with your spiritual achievements"
Excuse me ???? Where did I claim ANY spiritual achievements ? I just pointed out the resources based on which I can assure the readers that what you say here in the name of buddhism has nothing to do with the genuine buddhist teachings and hence your original criticism of my original commentary was based on YOUR mix of arrogance and ignorance.
@thomasnordwest Are you my pyscho-analytic ? I guess you lack the qualifcations for that too.This is a debate, sparks fly.
"You have a very disrespectful tone in your writing."
Oh really, let's quote your original words: "I'm afraid you didn't understand"
Such pompous assumption of superiority based on totally deluded new age thinking not only deserves ridicule, it is actually an act of compassion to shake you out of this idiotic self-complacency.
@LooksAeterna for someone who "studied" both little rude non buddhist not even conventionally classy comments.....Befoe you offer someone a "piece of mind" i recommend you make sure you have enough to spare.
@luxurybulldog Yeah, keep trying to use your smear rhetoric to attack my person - as if IT had anything to do with it - to distract from the obvious problem which all these Tibeto-romantics are consistenly using all their intellectual powers to ignore in order to maintain their last futile dream of the complete dependability of the knowitall-priests.
Yours is a real fallacy falling under the heading of "ad hominem". Typical of politicians and ideologists. But for HUMANS: message, not messenger.
@LooksAeterna consciousness is eternal, empty and infinite. We are all part of that consciousness. We should treat each other as such. I just wish we could all agree on this, then we might have a future as a species. All in all it doesn't really matter though, because consciousness is eternal. That said, i can't help but think that we could be living in a much more humane and enlightened world.
@LooksAeterna physical form only arises with the interaction of an observing consciousness. This gels with the Llama's assertion that the external world is indeed not existent in its own right. the sub-atomic particles that make up matter only solidify in to a form with their apprehension by a consciousness. It appears that these people that you deride as ignorant Medieval embarrassments are indeed right. IMO you ought to be a bit more respectful of such highly developed beings as well.
@dressrehearsalrags Your comment shows you haven't got a clue what i was saying.
Who cares whether they are experts at all sorts of things and deserve respect within that. The Dalai Lama could be the Chess World Champion for all I care, nevertheless what I said earlier still stands.
And please read ALL my comments here before you mis-react again. To be a shunyatavadin or to have realized shunyata does NOT qualify in the least to understand Quantum physics or even the problems involved.
@LooksAeterna do you mean "Śūnyatā? If so, i agree that an expert in that area is not a qualified in quantum mechanics in the western sense. I do however find it interesting that the Mahayana tantra practitioners seem to have some so close to the view of the particle physicists with multi-million dollar microscopes. I also find it interesting in my home town Dunedin NZ, just a couple of months ago, a Llama maintained his mind within his body for 18 days after being certified as medically dead.
Stop the nonsense already. There is only QM. There is no QM in any other sense. Also there is no closeness between what the practitioners see and the problems of QM or else them Lamas would have no problems understanding the problems discussed.
Please stop your prozelytizing religious drivel now.
@LooksAeterna Please remain civil. This is not the place for venting your emotional problems. The Llamas are more intuitive in their ontological outlook than emperical. That they have a different language for talking about the same thing doesn't make them any less valid. Had it not occured to you that it may be an embodied form of intelligence, that is difficult to express in English in a few minutes? The great Llamas have developed their intuitive, embodied ontological intelligence over .....
@LooksAeterna ... many decades. Fine, you rubbish and poo poo these people. All you do however is reveal your own ignorance, and trap yourself in a negative emotional bubbel of your own construction. You have so much to learn from these people, so it's a shame that your pride, which is a form of ignorance, stops you from learning. My advice is to unburden yourself from your prison. It will not serve you in your life to come.
So you are a liar, fine. Keep inventing things I did not say and criticize your projections, but please leave me alone. Instead start reading properly.
I have spent YEARS under eminent Lama's feet (which I respect) studying their scriptures, language and what their wrongly thus translated "philosophy", and I am also a scientist. Your arrogant religious ignorance demonstrates that you lack the understanding of at least one of the two.
@LooksAeterna these gave me cause to re-examine my assumptions about the ability of Llamas to understand the nature of things, both inner and outer which, i believe are spiritual, infinite and eternal . You seem to have very little respect for these people. Because of this, i put it to you that you have done yourself a disservice, because with that attitude you will not advance as a spiritual being. I fear that you will remain trapped in ignorance, and that, I do not wish for anyone.
@dressrehearsalrags "You seem to have very little respect for these people."
"seem" (to YOU !) is the key word. It is YOU who doesn't even have enough respect of others to read what they are saying and reply properly.
I do not in fact have respect of any frivolous stupidity. That doesn't mean I lack respect for the stupid. It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about, say, Chess openings with the Lamas and Great Chess Champions, becaus being a Lama doesn't qualify for chess (or QM).
@LooksAeterna The Dalai Lama gets a lot of press. But he's really too busy being a politician to be the best spiritual leader. Someone like Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is probably a better choice. But honestly, for good fusion of Stoicism, Buddhism, and real science, without all the silly metaphysical baggage that comes with Buddhism, people are probably better off reading Albert Ellis.
@sbergman27 You are opening another whole can of worms here. I would not recommend GKG, without getting into the Shugden debate here, but then again I will generelly unrecommend the whole vow-ridden tantric approach for occidentals in whom it causes overwhelming misunderstanding and psychological regression of the worst kind - exceptions notwithstanding.
As regards "real science", well, Ellis is certainly not qualified to speak on the subject of this video - where I recommend Alan Wallace.
@LooksAeterna My take home point would be that people shouldn't waste too much time on Buddhism based on the common claims that it's not a religion, or is friendly to science. re "religion": if it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck... And as you point out, the Dalai Lama lacks even basic knowledge of modern physics. Why consult him? "Less hostile than some" is a very low standard. I prefer just living a rational life. Out of curiosity, any thoughts on Robina Courtin?
@sbergman27 I would say that for the purposes of most would be buddhsits, Eckhart Tolle and vipassana and cultivating a good heart does it. Keep an open mind and keep educating yourself. We can study the religions to get the truth of them out. In truth, no need for vows or any exclusivism.
Oh and I recommend the three main books by Bernadette Roberts ! An eye opener for buddhists.
@sbergman27 ...and yes, I do agree that this "buddhism is scientific" is bunk and has been a PR stunt of oriental Gurus (no only buddhists) ever since they perceived the superiority in power of the technology driven occident. It is for the same reason that they try to (wrongly !) present spirituality as something that can be "done" by a inward technology - a wrong notion even from the POV of their own tradition.
But: a religion is a religion is a religion, and easy to prove for buddhism.
I am in 12:20.Lack of ability to convey the concept to Dalai Lama.Translation makes it even worse.
kabasak 3 weeks ago
Thomas Campbell is a Nuclear scientist but with Dalai Lama level of spirituality. He explains the double slit experiment which is a fundamental part of quantum mechanics. No B.S. just facts. Although you do have to be a far from the middle scientist and not stuck in blinding cultural/personal beliefs which is a rare human these days. Youtube (twcjr44)
HDvids101 3 weeks ago
What a painful and frustrating linguistics and communications carwreck this is...
Really unfortunate that the scientist doesnt speak english or explain concepts very well... And that the Dalai's English is limited as well. Funny at times as the Tibetan's huddle together, then the scientist rambles indirectly and with a thick accent. Yikes.
wayout71 4 weeks ago
Whether it's easy 2 "understand" or not is not the issue. What's the issue is that the "authorities" of this world, live by lies. "Reality" tv shows that most definitely are at least partly scripted; SEVERAL bogus answeres IN A ROW as 2 why WE INITIATED WAR on a country that DID NOT COMMIT 9/11; the illegal torture of prisoners of war; the fact that we are in bed with the Saudis who are the source of the most radical forms of Islam; fact that President was Skull&Bones(Black Sun/Golden Fleece/SS)
soweru8 1 month ago
very well done vid.
the concept makes you think. check into the Quantum Generator some time.
FujiSatori 1 month ago
I think that alot of quantum&rlated physics is as much mumbojumbo as anything else.They call it science & speak in such a way as2b hard2follow/confusing(even stating that it is "simple")so that u will think that it is simply above ur head and that they are much smarter than u,when really,they r not saying anything that is coherent or that makes any sense at all.They just take so long2get2the point and are dealing with such "lofty" concepts that most give up.Stay calm&focused&know that u decide.
soweru8 1 month ago
@soweru8 well i guess its hard to understand for some, i suspect you are one of the them, no offence. quantum physics/mechanics is actually quite easy to understand and apply to society, probability, math, religion and more.. just open your mind.
Hakuro10 1 month ago
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polterguy2 1 month ago
"we are not aloud to talk about the path, unless we measure the path" This is where I think Science in general fails since nothing can truly be measured, ever seen a fractal image? you try to count an object within it, it cannot be measured, you think you find a square or a circle but zoom in a bit and its made of an infinite number of infinetly complex shapes. Science might aswell not talk about anything if thats the guidelines it must follow.
ZelatorUK 1 month ago
♥ #Light is individual particles ...
Particles of God ...
w/two slits open ...
t/Light creates N t/striped pattern ...
God dances w/itself ...
~Debbie:)
MontanaDreamaker 2 months ago
You explain to H.H. the basic elements of quantum physics, dumb ass Teutonic !? Did you know that Tibetan Buddhism especially to the high level to a Lama passes though the Tao of the Physics where the concept of the vacuum and the double qualities of particles creating the reality when matter collapses,doesn't need scientific tools to know all that and more.....I feel embarrass for him! Lucky that HH Tenzing Ghiatzo is a great compassionate tolerant Soul!
madalene2012 2 months ago
@madalene2012 So true!!! Thank goodness he is so compassionate!
Junellemalee 1 month ago 2
@madalene2012 Not everyone has had the priviledge of becoming a Boddhisatva. And even when you do become one, Science still helps to understand, for example during some of my visions I saw the cells in my body, organs etc in lucid visual manifestations, however if I never looked through a microscope I would not have known what I was seeing. Self doubt is very hard to remove and Science helps even the most advanced practitioners. It's not about tolerance, clearly H.H enjoyed this.
ZelatorUK 1 month ago
@ZelatorUK You are talking nicely, thank you! When I met HH personally in a small group in Hymachal Pradesh during a Tibetan Medicine workshop for professionals, I got straight away His humbleness + His well known sense of humor (+ an amazing contagious well-being). I still think that the vision of the cells in the body doesn't need confirmation of microscope, as happened with the acupuncture meridian map. I believe HH enjoys cause He is extremely positive, playful and..diplomatic.
madalene2012 1 month ago
for your information, Buddhism is not atheistic, the religion is simply non-theist,
if you don't understand the difference between the two, then you have not understood Buddhism.
lov2us 2 months ago
The Relativists here have mathematized abstract metaphysics (the Buddha did not tolerate metaphysics of any kind). This is a leap, not into reality (yathabhutam), but rather a leap, with mathematics, into science fictions. There are no worm or black holes - no warped space, a big bag, or light that is either wave or particle, or a sun that works by nuclear fusion. These are fictions.
mujaku 2 months ago
I love how scientists "report" to Dalai Lama
MindWalker123 2 months ago
@MindWalker123 they report to the lama because he is the equivalent or rather a step above in knowledge of the worlds greatest physics professors. The word for this is mutual respect and humility. What kind of person has a problem with this ?
trustinstinct 2 months ago
@trustinstinct well my beloved brother, why don`t you ask your self that question? What made you think that I have a problem? I said "I love it". What is your interpretation telling you about your self? ;-))))
MindWalker123 2 months ago
@MindWalker123 your negativity resounds a four layer smiley face and constant sarcasm are what we good energy people would call a trickster or deceiver. be kind
trustinstinct 2 months ago
@trustinstinct " we good energy people" enjoy your good energy dude
MindWalker123 2 months ago
You quote "Maybe knowledge is as fundamental, or even more fundamental than reality." ... nice catch. I'd ask for 1 refinement: s / knowledge / information, i.e. "Maybe information is as fundamental, or even more fundamental ..."
Tashi delek!
tremben 3 months ago
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tremben 3 months ago
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@tremben Part of HHDL's reply, "and so it makes no sense to talk about phenomenon that is independent of observation." And so it appears that there's agreement.
:-)
tremben 3 months ago
Very nice vid!
I am an artist trying to promote my theory on the dynamics of light and time.
This theory is based on two postulates
1. Is that the quantum wave particle function Ψ represents the forward passage of time ∆E ∆t ≥ h/2π itself
2. Is that Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle ∆×∆p×≥h/4π that is formed by the w- function is the same uncertainty we have with any future event.
nickharvey7 3 months ago
@gunner3210 LMFAO!
NotJackZ 3 months ago
Its a hard topic to discuss but its impressive. Love you Dalai!!!
punchoo 3 months ago
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why do we have to decide? they are both!
IcarusFlying 3 months ago
In the past a person worshiped cows , .... this meeting ..... cows worships a person .
abohnad 3 months ago
He's so adorable!!!
rikizzz 3 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 4 months ago
I thought that Dalai Lama knows english?
NaunachteTauri 4 months ago
I am an atheist and a scientist. This guy has my complete respect. Try teaching the pope about the double slit experiment.
The pope doesn't even approve the use of condoms. What an idiot.
Gunner3210 4 months ago 44
@Gunner3210 Buddhists are not atheists. Buddhism is Panentheistic.
KTK401 3 months ago
@KTK401 We do not accept an external god as a creator. So we are truly the only atheist religion. Regarding the myriads of "gods" in the Mahayana/Vajrayana schools of buddhism, these are forms used for visualization purposes, such as the 5 elements, emotions both positive and negative. Formless phenomena that we put name and colour to in order to relate to them as "real".
karmamonade 2 months ago
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@Gunner3210 one day I will assassinate pope and I am completely serious about this.
Dzintra681 3 months ago
@Gunner3210 What you know about a quantum
is what the pope shits every day - read his books and you get an idea what the pope knows about the quantenphysik - what is your respect worth??? Shit Head
LarryUnderw00d 2 months ago
@LarryUnderw00d Umadbro? Shut the fuck up, cunt.
Gunner3210 2 months ago
@Gunner3210 for what have i t oshut up?
you called someone an idiot - you must be a shit head
deal with the reality and imnot your bro SHITHEAD
an now get the fuck off braindamaged sucker
LarryUnderw00d 2 months ago
@LarryUnderw00d umadbro. uverymad.
Gunner3210 2 months ago
@Gunner3210 budhism is not a religion about God, its a philosophy on self. even and Atheist can be a Buddhist
johnifejika 1 month ago
@johnifejika correction, even an Atheist can be a Buddhist
johnifejika 1 month ago
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@Gunner3210 Cancer is the direct result of an EGO that cannot ful-fill itself and it starts to eat itself on a bodily level - ARVUT
Markle6 4 weeks ago
My response to this video is quite simple. The reason these quantum particles seem to respond without pattern is because we do not have any device that can isolate each particle in a testable environment without outside interference with other unknown variables. I believe that every action has a cause wither you see it or not. Inferring that these particles respond without pattern while disregarding a possible unknown cause or flaw in testing methods is breaking the rules of science.
iceylittle 4 months ago
Numbers are not meaningful, is my main point here. Until i came in to contact with the Buddha's teachngs my life just felt like the elliott smith song "everything means nothing to me"? (on youtube). I don't see how QM changes the existential problem, which is infinity, emptiness and the bringing of nothingness. Only buddhism has helped me with those things.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
What if a photon has a carrier wave ? Just like a boat on the waving sea, its not the particle that interfers, but the wave its traveling within. Has noone thought on that ??
TheMasenko 4 months ago
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emendozer 4 months ago
@emendozer "Buddhism and Quantum Physics are the same.."
This is complete and utter tripe. But rather than just tearing it apart, I'll ask you to explain in your own words what Quantum Mechanics actually is. In claiming that QM is the same as Buddhism you are implicitly claiming you know what QM is in the first place. My guess? You've been reading or watching a bunch of pseudoscience gobbledygook. If they are really the same thing, why is the Dalai Lama so obviously clueless about QM?
sbergman27 4 months ago
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emendozer 4 months ago
@emendozer I'm not quite sure what you mean by "win". But I'll take "pushing someone to think more deeply about a topic" over "winning" any day. Understanding the difference between a scientific model and a mystic religion is far from "pointless". Often it happens that someone says something to me which I know is incorrect. But to properly refute it, I end up having to study, and verify my facts. And I usually end up learning something on the way. I would still encourage you to think about it.
sbergman27 4 months ago
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emendozer 4 months ago
@emendozer In fact I've studied New Kadampa Buddhism. (Have you ever studied any form of Buddhism?) I'm well aware of the "It's not a religion" sales point. But in truth, by any reasonable operational definition of the word, Buddhism is a religion. Robes, monks, monasteries, prophet figures, baseless metaphysical dogma, promise of an afterlife. It's all in there. Meanwhile, QM is a concrete, very well tested mathematical model of our Universe @ small scales. QM & Buddhism have nothing in common.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 thanks for your sneering response. You do realise that all you do is reveal you troubled and irritated state of your mind with such pajorative mud slinging no? In any case, i agree that mathematics can explain a lot. I disagree that it is transcendent however. For example, no person knows what dark matter is in QM, it is merely infered with mathematics. That's not science, that's groping in the dark. IMO mathematics needs to stick to observable data.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "merely infered with mathematics"
No. It is, itself, now observational data. It was originally inferred from the observational data of Zwicky, Rubin & others. But today we have actual maps of it. We observe it directly via grav lensing. (See "Bullet Cluster".) What's lacking is a label. WMAP data tells us it's a CDM particle (or particles). Something like a neutrino but more massive. My bet's on the neutralino. Time & experiment will tell.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 "Time and experiment will tell" there you go. You don't know what it is. No one does. It is infered by mathematics, not measured.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@sbergman27 to continue .... there's no need for extremely complicated and speculative mathematics in the feild of QM. All life is organised according to constants including the golden ratio phi, 1.618 (supreme harmony), the fine structure constant 1/137.508. Geometry can reveal to us, the harmony underlying the universe, but it doesn't give us a reason to live, or a way of living. For that, one needs a keenly developed sense of intuition.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags You've gone completely off the deep end, here. It looks like you've just posted some random stuff you saw on WP without understanding it. (Why would you do that, I wonder.) But since you are now claiming some mastery of science... perhaps you would like to explain some of it to me. Pretend I don't know what QM is. Or the (rather poorly named) fine structure constant. And I can't wait for your explanation of how the golden mean relates. Did you Google that Eurekalert paper?
sbergman27 4 months ago
No googeling needed. Go off and read a book called "The purposeful universe". I can't be bothered explaining the details to you here.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "the fine structure constant 1/137.508"
BTW, I had intended to mention that 1/137.508 is not the fine structure constant. The FSC is known to about 12 significant digits. And it's nowhere near 1/137.508.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 .... in your acrimonious dealings with people, blocks your ability to feel inner harmony in the long-run. My advice is to ditch the inflated ego, and start all over again from a place of humble equinimity.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "acrimonious dealings with people"
You're one to talk. Anyway, to me, the real, measurable, verifiable Universe is so magnificent & wondrous that I cannot imagine how anyone could ask for more. If you feel the need to make something up to believe in, or to seek predigested stuff that other people have made up, you can do that. But although your ignorant arrogance annoys me a bit, I do honestly feel a bit sorry for you. I thought about you while I was on Sandia Peak today.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 You come already in a state of annoyance - that much is clear. Sneering at people across the internet is not something that a spiritualy mature person does.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago 8
@dressrehearsalrags The difference between you & me is that when you see a rainbow you see a rainbow. That's it. When I see a rainbow I see the same beautiful rainbow & appreciate it as much. But I then consider that the same principle as produces it also allows us to discover the compositions of stars & the atmospheres of planets in our solar system. & soon even of exoplanets. An O₂ signature would almost certainly mean life. You see the rainbow but still need something made up to give meaning.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 It is not made up. It is the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, in other words the Standard Interpretation.
regards
KTK401 4 months ago
Respond to this video... intuition is something you have or you don't have. Though, as tantric practice attests, it is something that can be developed. Your egocentrism and by extension over-rationalisation will block your ability to FEEL the nature of things. You grasp on to rationalisation because you feel you excel in that area, thus it gives you an inflated sense of self, which makes you feel secure in your existance. Unfortunately, what makes you feel secure....
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
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emendozer 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "Unfortunately, what makes you feel secure...."
Who are you trying to convince? I only ask because you've allotted so many valuable chars in this thread not to the discussion @ hand but to your own pronouncements regarding other people's psychological conditions. You started out diagnosing LooksAeterna as having "autism". And now every time you feel backed into the corner by facts you make some new diagnosis regarding me. It makes me wonder a little about *your* stability.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 we are only able to capture a snapshot of infinity by using observable data. That's why science and mathematics will always be too reductive in its explanation of such things. There's also the issue of intuition. Meditiation can help one develop the sense of intuition. There are powers that some people posses that transcend any materialist explanation. Even declasified CIA documents reveal that remote veiwing is a real thing, which is acknowledged by the CIA itself.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags You desperately need to learn mathematics. Mathematics is by far the most expansive of human accomplishments. All sciences & arts pale in comparison. Reductionist? It can be when it want's to. But also transcendent. As abstract or concrete as it likes. Any landscape imaginable, worldly or not, can be explored by mathematics. How can I describe this to someone who only knows arithmetic? It's like presenting the Mona Lisa to a farm animal. Maybe "Hotel Infinity" would help you.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags (cont'd) Regarding your drivel about intuition (whatever that is), the CIA, & "remote viewing". All I can say is that it must be strange believing the kinds of nonsense that you do. Assuming your CIA claims are not completely false.. the CIA is hardly a bastion of science data. Every time so-called "remote viewing" is put to a blinded test, it fails. In poorly designed, nonblinded ones it sometimes does better. Hm... what could that mean? Phil Plait has some good articles.
sbergman27 4 months ago
The scientist asked: "Is knowledge fundamental and maybe more fundamental than reality ?"
The flag waving in the blowing wind. Is the flag moving or is the wind moving? The observation of the quantum universe with particles moving within it. Is the particles moving or is the quantum universe moving ?"
The Zen master answered: " It is neither the particle nor the quantum unvierse is moving, thou hearts are moving."
Observation within one's confinement is always constrained.
sgxbroker 4 months ago
@sgxbroker "It is neither the particle nor the quantum unvierse is moving, thou hearts are moving."
Meaningless metaphysical gobbledygook. Einstein covered reference frames much *meaningfully* in Special Relativity. And "Zen master" obviously doesn't even understand the question of "quantum interpretation". It's not enough anymore to say deep sounding stuff in "wise" language. To play (meta)physics you need facts, logic, & agreement with observational data. Otherwise, better stick to "ethics".
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27
27 is indeed a nice number.
Many years from the present, many will know the error of cognition of the "reference frame much "meaningfully" in Special Relativity."
Observation within is differernt from observation without.
Ethics within is different from ethics without.
sgxbroker 4 months ago
@sgxbroker Tell you what. If you really & truly believe the "Xen master" nonsense you posted, then why don't you jump off the roof of a tall building. And on the way down, contemplate whether it is you moving, the air moving, the ground moving, or just your "heart moving". Go ahead. Do the experiment. And let us all know how it turns out.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27
Your heart has moved.
Peace, your experiment has been repeated many times throughout the world.
As all are within, the result within is repeatative.
Leaf fell from the trees, returning back to the earth. Energy within released and transformed within to another form, all within the confinement. Until, one can exit this confinement, then it move away from this reality.
What is the total amount of energy within this reality, this quantum universe ?
sgxbroker 4 months ago
@sgxbroker "your experiment has been repeated many times throughout the world."
Diane Linkletter comes to mind. But I'll take this to mean you lack conviction.
"What is the total amount of energy within,,,this quantum universe?"
ΛCDM is the best cosmological model for answering that. It might surprise you to learn that the net energy is within about a gigajoule of being zero. For reference, that's equivalent to about $25 of electricity. Science is *so* much more powerful than superstition.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27
ΛCDM says nothing about the fundamental physical origin of dark
matter, dark energy and the nearly scale-invariant spectrum of primordial curvature perturbations: in that
sense, it is merely a useful parameterization of ignorance.
sgxbroker 4 months ago
@sgxbroker Nice copy & paste. Too bad you don't understand a word of it. At any rate, as ΛCDM includes General Relativity, it does indeed address DE with the Cosmological Constant (the energy of empty space). DM is addressed via the SM & SUSY (the neutralino being the top candidate particle). And the "curvature perturbations" bit is just saying we've not yet enough data to standardize on a particular inflation model. But the quote you plagiarized doesn't really relate to my answer to you.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27
The info quoted earlier is indeed copied from the internet.
This is just to illustrate that the best model is just a model and did not provide the holistic answer.
Your theory that the net energy is approximtely zero or maybe zero in the quantum universe?
What is the impact and implication, if it is indeed zero. Maybe your intelligence can explain and enlighten the rest.
In addition, what about the net energy of the multi-dimensional universe ? Any insight ?
sgxbroker 4 months ago
@sgxbroker $25 of energy to create a whole Universe isn't an interesting enough implication? Anyway, it's the symmetry between the positive energy of empty space + the matter/energy in it, & the negative energy of gravity that results in the net 0. Quantum uncertainty makes the initial $25 energy possible. Extra dimensions? I don't know. String Theory is really only an elegant set of hypotheses right now. A strength of science is that it's comfortable saying "we don't know". Unlike religion.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27
Because I don't know, thus I asked other sentient beings.
Because other sentient beings don't know, thus they seek and find.
Due to the limited time of generations of beings versus the much greater scale of the universe, the ultimate answer may never be found.
Yet, if one's search in all the quantum dimensional directions and cannot find the answers,
then one need to search deep within and without.
Peace, keep searching.
sgxbroker 4 months ago
@sgxbroker "may never be found"
Well, I should hope not! Getting there isn't half the fun. It's most of it. Cosmology is my thing. I would like to live to see us probe beyond the 370,000yr curtain of the CMB & actually see the first moments after the Big Bang with Gravitational Wave or Neutrino Telescopes. To have a solid idea where the BB came from & what our Universe' ultimate fate is. Confirmation of intelligent life outside our solar system would be nice. But if I don't, that's OK, too.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 you think you can describe eternity and infinity with numbers? That is just nonsense. Both concepts go beyond description by numbers. Quantum physics therefore cannot tackel metaphysics, but Buddhism can.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags You haven't had much (any?) math. You are confusing math with arithmetic. (A common mistake for the math-ignorant.) There are whole branches of mathematics, particularly within set theory, which deal with many different types of infinities. But I suppose people incapable of dealing with real science & math still wan't to have something to believe in that is simple & facile enough for them to understand, even if it is completely fictitious. And Buddhism fits that bill.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags (cont'd) What's really a shame, though, is that as a consequence, many people go through life believing in the simple & facile substitutes for real understanding, like christianity and buddhism, and completely miss the numinous experience of coming to understand the real Universe. It's a process. You never finish. And it's a lot of hard (and fun) work. But the results deliver a richness that you'll never find in your self-inconsistent "Fisher-Price" world of religion.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sgxbroker (cont'd) You & your mystical religion will do fine as long as you stick to ethics & perhaps some subset of philosophy. But as soon as you try to step onto the highway of science with your woefully outmoded & outclassed metaphysical dogma, you're going to get run over, every time, by a more systematic, evidence-based approach. And it's not just you. The Hindus, Muslims, & Christians are all in the same boat. Hindus & Buddhists do seem quicker to at least partially accept that reality.
sbergman27 4 months ago
The scientist asked: "Is knowledge is fundamental and maybe more fundamental than reality ?"
The flag waving in the blowing wind. Is the flag moving or is the wind moving? The observation of the quantum universe with particles moving within it. Is the particles moving or is the quantum universe moving ?"
The Zen master answered: " It is neither the particle nor the quantum unvierse is moving, thou hearts are moving."
Observation within one's confinement is always constrained.
sgxbroker 4 months ago
I understand that you think it's civil to call people stupid, backward and medieval, thus i surnise that you probably are autistic. Are you sure that you know of what you speek. My understandng is that it usually takes many years of dedicated LIVING of Buddhism to understand it. Intellect is only a tool that is used to start the journy, but you need to walk the talk and surreder ego to experience the knowledge. I would start again with these thoughts if i were you.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "you think it's civil to call people stupid, backward and medieval"
I called the bahvior of organizing such an event stupid, and I called the nyaya "philosophy" they try to graft onto the subject backward and medieval, not people. Of course, the whole culture there is backward and medieval, and there is nothing opinionated about it. Any sensible person IN THAT culture would have to agree.
If you would not suffer from dyselxia and severe mind poisons, you would have noticed.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna yes you called the people stupid. Stop squirming to suit yourself and take some responsibility for you unsociable behaviour. I'd also like to add that Buddhism means different things to different people. Because Buddhism isn't just analytical, it is a living and embodied philosophy. It doesn't make sense to analysie it in an empiricist manner. In fact the Buddha's teachings eveloved organically in his own life time. So don't get caught up to much on banal details.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "you called the people stupid."
For the n-th time: no I didn't, I said:
"It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about, say, Chess openings with the Lamas and Great Chess Champions, becaus being a Lama doesn't qualify for chess (or QM)."
But I will say that you are beset with a severe personality disorder. You need help. But not from me. Leave me alone now. Stop misusing this video commentary section as a toilet for your mental illness.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags (contd.) "My understandng is that it usually takes many years of dedicated LIVING of Buddhism to understand it."
Finally: stop switching the subject. Buddhism is not the topic here. My comments were about the topic of the video which is NOT buddhism.
"that you probably are autistic"
As I said before: "Even if this mix of arrogance, callousness, falsehood and ignorance were true, it would be a logical fallacy". You smear campaign is clear sign of YOUR mental distubrance.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "think it's civil to call people stupid, backward and medieval"
Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.
"Are you sure that you know of what you speek [sic]."
He sure sounds like he does.
"it usually takes many years of dedicated LIVING of Buddhism to understand it."
How very convenient for the Buddhist recruiters.
"I would start again with these thoughts if i were you."
In fact, it appears that you are the one in need of a good rethink.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 aside from being a circular argument, the simplstic spade analogy is painfully reductictive. Buddhism aims at harmony, and generally aims to avoid pajorative mud-slinging. It's anti-autistic in that sense. "lookslikeastirrer" could have raised particular objections to Nyaya, but instead resorted to name calling. That person is anything but Buddhist.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags In fact it's very easy to demonstrate that the metaphysical baggage of Buddhism is not based upon any foundation of evidence. It's as made up as any other religious dogma. The Dalai Lama finds it expedient to *appear* less hostile to science than some other religious monarchs.
I find it amusing that you're the only 1 in the conversation who has not studied Buddhism from the inside. And also that you're trying to claim the moral high ground when you were the 1 being nasty.
sbergman27 4 months ago
"It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about" ... "backward medieval scholastic system" that is a simple fact." Ok i've now realised that you suffer from autism. I've heard that a drug called Resperidone can help with the lack of social skill that comes from over-agitation of the brain. Otherwise a few deep breaths and some meditation may be of use. In any case i wish you all the best in your struggle to overcome the emotional problems that plague you.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "you suffer from autism....overcome the emotional problems that plague you. "
Even if this mix of arrogance, callousness, falsehood and ignorance were true, it would be a logical fallacy to try to use this to justify your rhetorical depravities and false argumentation.
As regards my statements regarding the Tibetan scholasticism, you have to remember that I spent roughly a year studying under eminent Khenpos studying the stuff 6 days/week all day. I know whereof I speak.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@LooksAeterna so have you been diagnosed as an Autistic? Honest qestion. I want to approach you with compassion if ou have been.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna i would also add that you will not find out what the Llamas think simply by talking to them any more than a blind person will know what a stool looks like from a description coming from a person with 20/20 vision. Some truths can only be known through lived, embodied expereince. No amount of verbose posturing will help you to understand Budhism i'm afraid.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags (contd.)
Anyone who even has a remote idea of "autistic" would know that an autist wouldn't even talk to you.
"i would also add that you will not find out what the Llamas think simply by talking to them"
Again: stop imputing onto me your facile, obnoxious, hate filled assumptions. I have no problem with the truth in buddhism (not of !) and spent months on retreat and partially seen the light already. That doesn't mean I agree with all the off topic garbage in it.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna that's not true. Autistic people are often irritable and lacking in an idea of what is socially appropriate. Coming to think of it, a couple of autistic people i have met claim to be into Buddhism, but their behavior toward other humans is anything but Buddhist. They call people stupid and think it's a fine thing to do. What is it with all these fake Buddhist autistic people? They reject the world that they can't function in, then pay no mind to the Buddha's message.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna ... I think the autistic Buddhists understand the intellectual side of Buddhism, but when it comes the intuitive spiritual aspect, they have trouble letting go of the ego which is based upon their intellect, so their intuition is blocked, making meditation on compassion and other things impossible. Does that sum you up fairly?
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna I'd like to add also, to any other autistic people that may be reading, i'm sure that not all of you are like LooksAeterna. Some of you have become self aware enough to avoid the kind of intolerant nasty behavior exhibited by that person. We should all have compassion for this poor being however. Obviously quite an undeveloped being with a long way to go along the spiritual path. That doesn't mean we are better than him, just a bit further along the path. All the best.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags I think your behvavior is a pretty good demonstration of the detrimental effects of THEIR buddhism on their minds. I am grateful that your persistence in this behavior is more convincing than my words could ever be.
That said, of course, your whole base smear campaign does not pertain to the subject of the video OR to my original comment which you just want to distract from.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
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@dressrehearsalrags "effects of THEIR buddhism on their minds"
What I meant was the post-"enlightenment" "occidentals" who are hell-bent to force their mind back into the blue meme of spiral dynamics in hopes of being devout buddhists in the traditional sense which is totally impossible and only results in severe mental distortions as your behavior demonstrates.
4. bp. blogspot. com/ _wAPzkaYfQwA/ S9yrve7Qn8I/ AAAAAAAAIkU/ YSj6mnA3bZ8/ s1600/ spiral_dynamics_model. jpg
remove spaces
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna you are rude and arrogant, as pointed out by several people here. Your shallow egocentric intellectectual posturing shows you to be anything but a Buddhist. This is the problem with you. It's unrefined autistic behaviour, which undermines everything else all your claims to authority re Buddhism. Are you completely un-self-aware? Buddhism aims to create self-awareness. Something you appear to be immune to.
dressrehearsalrags 4 months ago
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@dressrehearsalrags "you are rude and arrogant..r shallow egocentric ...posturing..unrefined autistic ..completely un-self-aware?"
Yes, yes.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
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@dressrehearsalrags "you are rude and arrogant, as pointed out by several people here"
I've not noted LooksAeterna being either rude or arrogant in the thread. In fact, he's exhibiting great equanimity in the face of your *repeated* personal attacks. Take a chill pill, dear.
sbergman27 4 months ago
" backward medieval scholastic system" - "I do not in fact have respect of any frivolous stupidity. That doesn't mean I lack respect for the stupid. " No wiggle room there for you I'm afraid. That is uncivil rubbishing and poo pooing. Squirm all you like. Also of course they're discussing the same thing. It's the infinite and eternal that's under discussion. The problem with the scientific approach is that it seeks to quantify the unquantifiable. This is where the Buddhist approach excels.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "No wiggle room there for you I'm afraid."
And none necessary:
1. "backward medieval scholastic system" that is a simple fact and easily demonstrable. If you disagree, it is a lack of education on your side. In particular it is the case - as mentioned - for the Lama's use of a non-buddhist nyaya which they here unsiccerssfully try to graft onto the subject. A truth is no candidate for incivility.
(contd.)
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags
Re the stupidity:
2. "It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about, say, Chess openings with the Lamas and Great Chess Champions, becaus being a Lama doesn't qualify for chess (or QM).
OBVIOUSLY to anyone who can read this doesn't refer to the Lamas, but to a hypothetical organizer of a summit of Lamas with Chess Champions. And I am likening the ORGANIZERS of this event (likely some new age hippies that share your scientific superficiality) to the hypothetical orgs.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags
Obviously your enthusiasm for these Lamas does not help you develop some basic goodness of human character such as proper reading before falsely insulting your vis a vis in a discussion by imputing things onto him he did not say, such as "you rubbish and poo poo these people" (on the video) which I did not.
3. "It's the infinite and eternal that's under discussion."
Well, your delusion is insurmountable. They are trying to explain the problems of QM. Not the same. Grow up.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags
4. Interesting that you made it a point to avoid inserting your last retort as a reply to mine, probably in hopes I would overlook it and you could "enjoy" your uncorrected smear campaign at the end of the discussion (previously you had properly replied, so it's not as if you didn't know). What low depravity ! I noticed these insiduous character flaws a lot in all these buddhists. And it is not that they had them before, their religious zeal actually generates such baseness.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
" backward medieval scholastic system" - "I do not in fact have respect of any frivolous stupidity. That doesn't mean I lack respect for the stupid. " No wiggle room there for you I'm afraid. That is uncivil rubbishing and poo pooing. Squirm all you like. Also of course they're discussing the same thing. It's the infinite and eternal that's under discussion. The problem with the scientific approach is that it seeks to quantify the unquantifiable. This is where the Buddhist approach excels.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
Just pointing out what people can take from Buddhism in regards to transcending the schisms/focus on doctrinal points. With regard to the less important doctrinal issues raised in this video, last night i attended a Tibetan Lama's teaching on the non-existence of external phenomena, and i raised the idea that it could be seen as gelling with the most recent quantum mechanics. We also happened to have a professor of particle physics there. There seemed to be an agreement that ...
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
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lightandbeautiful 5 months ago
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What's the point of this?
dokodoko22 5 months ago
They SHOULD HAVE PREPARED AN ANIMATION to illustrate the point! I can't believe for something this big...50 people gathered...cameras...this scientist has ONE PICTURE to communicate something so complex. Pathetic.
gorfjorf2112112 5 months ago
This guy explaining quantum physics is not good at explaining things. He needs to start more basic...better demonstration.
gorfjorf2112112 5 months ago
Yes, this phenomena is easy to interpret and understand when you have studied the Buddha's original scriptures, which of course HH the Dalai Lama and the monks have. - Without an observer there would be no phenomena in the world.
thomasnordwest 6 months ago
the problem here lies in the fact that ....the physicist is too technical....and the buddhist is too philosophical !! so instead of relying too much on the specifics ,they should have established a discussion/debate on the commonality of physics and buddhism.....obviously ,they both command a certain sense of mastery over their respective field.its just that it started on the wrong foot.
themightygyuri 7 months ago
You can tell by his body language that the Dalai was completely lost during the double slit explanation and he refused to make eye contact with Prof Zeilanger. This says allot doesn’t it? Also, when the translator took over, His Holiness remained frozen, his body was turned away from Zeilanger and you can tell that he was at a complete loss of what to do or say. The translator however seemed calm because he understands better. You need years of education to wrap your head around this stuff!
godno1god 8 months ago
@godno1god man I was looking and I know the basics of quant.mech. and IT WAS PUT IN A VERY BAD WAY, with one shitty picture like we in 80s :(( nobody would understan d that explanation, thats a shame of moderators
HybOj 6 months ago
Its sad that quantum physicists are so desperate to know what is going on that they take the Dalai Lama's medieval circus at all seriously! Read the book Karma Cola and u will realize that this sort of tom-foolery has been going on since the 1960's! Like why would these eastern guys know what Einstein and Schrodinger struggled with?
godno1god 8 months ago
It is simple as that: "I dont know" said the Dalai Lama.
Quantum physics and buddhism just don't merge.
GIndep 8 months ago
Dalai Lama is thinking in his head, 'wtf is this nigga talkin bout!!?'
DerrenBrown100 10 months ago 5
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UniversalTruthTruth 11 months ago
Wow!
no4urslf 1 year ago
This should have been the ultimate discussion for my "Philosophie, Physik, Spiritualität" playlist
buuuuuuuuut so far I am through parts 1-3 and am disappointed. Why did they waste everybody's time ? They should have given those religious types a simple introductory video IN ADVANCE of the conference so that they understand what the basic problem the double slit experiment brings up, such as is on my playlist "Die Quantenphysik" 1 - 2.
LooksAeterna 1 year ago
(contd.) as it is, they are just talking past each other. It's embarrassing, the Lamas don't understand the first thing about the problem and try to use the occasion to find some confirmation for totally unrelated bits and pieces for their backward medieval scholastic system which mostly isn't even buddhist as such but largely derived from nyaya.
I happen to know since I wasted a lot of time on studying buddhist scholasticism, and as profound as the essence of buddhism is, this baggage isn't.
LooksAeterna 1 year ago 16
@LooksAeterna I'm afraid you didn't understand, they are in complete agreement. The scientific findings here go perfectly ahead with the ancient buddhist teachings.
thomasnordwest 6 months ago
@thomasnordwest OMG, have you watched the same video ?
You cannot be in agreement with someone you obviously don't understand. Apparently, you do not even understand about science NOR buddhism ( studied both) to even see clearly that the Lamas haven't a clue what he is talking about except to reiterate their unrelated buddhist concepts.
If you want to see a connection between madhyamaka and modern physics, THE ONLY place to look for is Allan Wallace and his: "Choosing Reality".
LooksAeterna 6 months ago
(LooksAeterna) Correction: that's "Alan Wallace", not "Allan", the single most amazing contemporary buddhist scholar:
alanwallace. org /writings. htm
Remove spaces, read, study, BEFORE you reply, please.
LooksAeterna 6 months ago
@LooksAeterna Your respeonses sgot a really negative vibe to it. Not so much lovingkindness and tolerance. The ego knows things, but it refuses to let go of the illusion of Self. There is nothing you can achieve with a intolerant heart.
thomasnordwest 6 months ago
@thomasnordwest "Your respeonses sgot a really negative vibe to it."
bwaha, thank you, wonderful ! I wonder what a truly realized Lama (like mine) would tell you if you came to him with this fluffy new age crap ! You know, I studied under these masters closely, for years, months on end, 6 days a week. I happen to know what they think of the kind new age baloney that you express here.
And BTW, y'can't claim in the name of buddhism that something which they claim doesn't exist knows anything !
LooksAeterna 6 months ago
@LooksAeterna You have a very disrespectful tone in your writing. Looks like you are so realized that you are allowed to be rude and showing off with your spiritual achievements, all behavior that really doesn't impress me. A simple person with a simple mind but a sweet compassionate heart impresses more 1000 times more and is a million times closer to enlightenment.
thomasnordwest 6 months ago
@thomasnordwest "showing off with your spiritual achievements"
Excuse me ???? Where did I claim ANY spiritual achievements ? I just pointed out the resources based on which I can assure the readers that what you say here in the name of buddhism has nothing to do with the genuine buddhist teachings and hence your original criticism of my original commentary was based on YOUR mix of arrogance and ignorance.
LooksAeterna 6 months ago
@thomasnordwest Are you my pyscho-analytic ? I guess you lack the qualifcations for that too.This is a debate, sparks fly.
"You have a very disrespectful tone in your writing."
Oh really, let's quote your original words: "I'm afraid you didn't understand"
Such pompous assumption of superiority based on totally deluded new age thinking not only deserves ridicule, it is actually an act of compassion to shake you out of this idiotic self-complacency.
LooksAeterna 6 months ago
@LooksAeterna for someone who "studied" both little rude non buddhist not even conventionally classy comments.....Befoe you offer someone a "piece of mind" i recommend you make sure you have enough to spare.
luxurybulldog 6 months ago
@luxurybulldog Yeah, keep trying to use your smear rhetoric to attack my person - as if IT had anything to do with it - to distract from the obvious problem which all these Tibeto-romantics are consistenly using all their intellectual powers to ignore in order to maintain their last futile dream of the complete dependability of the knowitall-priests.
Yours is a real fallacy falling under the heading of "ad hominem". Typical of politicians and ideologists. But for HUMANS: message, not messenger.
LooksAeterna 6 months ago
@LooksAeterna consciousness is eternal, empty and infinite. We are all part of that consciousness. We should treat each other as such. I just wish we could all agree on this, then we might have a future as a species. All in all it doesn't really matter though, because consciousness is eternal. That said, i can't help but think that we could be living in a much more humane and enlightened world.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags While your well meaning sermon is certainly laudable elswhere, I can't see how it pertains to my point in any way.
What would you think if someone would now react to your comment and hold a sermon about how wonderful Jesus was ? Sure he was and is, but wtf...
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@LooksAeterna physical form only arises with the interaction of an observing consciousness. This gels with the Llama's assertion that the external world is indeed not existent in its own right. the sub-atomic particles that make up matter only solidify in to a form with their apprehension by a consciousness. It appears that these people that you deride as ignorant Medieval embarrassments are indeed right. IMO you ought to be a bit more respectful of such highly developed beings as well.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags Your comment shows you haven't got a clue what i was saying.
Who cares whether they are experts at all sorts of things and deserve respect within that. The Dalai Lama could be the Chess World Champion for all I care, nevertheless what I said earlier still stands.
And please read ALL my comments here before you mis-react again. To be a shunyatavadin or to have realized shunyata does NOT qualify in the least to understand Quantum physics or even the problems involved.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@LooksAeterna do you mean "Śūnyatā? If so, i agree that an expert in that area is not a qualified in quantum mechanics in the western sense. I do however find it interesting that the Mahayana tantra practitioners seem to have some so close to the view of the particle physicists with multi-million dollar microscopes. I also find it interesting in my home town Dunedin NZ, just a couple of months ago, a Llama maintained his mind within his body for 18 days after being certified as medically dead.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "quantum mechanics in the western sense"
Stop the nonsense already. There is only QM. There is no QM in any other sense. Also there is no closeness between what the practitioners see and the problems of QM or else them Lamas would have no problems understanding the problems discussed.
Please stop your prozelytizing religious drivel now.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@LooksAeterna Please remain civil. This is not the place for venting your emotional problems. The Llamas are more intuitive in their ontological outlook than emperical. That they have a different language for talking about the same thing doesn't make them any less valid. Had it not occured to you that it may be an embodied form of intelligence, that is difficult to express in English in a few minutes? The great Llamas have developed their intuitive, embodied ontological intelligence over .....
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "Please remain civil. This is not the place for venting your emotional problems."
You do realize that wrongly accusing me of incivility is itself an insult and expression of YOUR emotional imbalance, right ?
I called no one stupid, please learn to read properly.
"That they have a different language for talking about the same thing"
You apparently do not know what "that thing" is or you couldn't delude yourself into believing that it IS the same thing. It is not.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@LooksAeterna ... many decades. Fine, you rubbish and poo poo these people. All you do however is reveal your own ignorance, and trap yourself in a negative emotional bubbel of your own construction. You have so much to learn from these people, so it's a shame that your pride, which is a form of ignorance, stops you from learning. My advice is to unburden yourself from your prison. It will not serve you in your life to come.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "you rubbish and poo poo these people."
So you are a liar, fine. Keep inventing things I did not say and criticize your projections, but please leave me alone. Instead start reading properly.
I have spent YEARS under eminent Lama's feet (which I respect) studying their scriptures, language and what their wrongly thus translated "philosophy", and I am also a scientist. Your arrogant religious ignorance demonstrates that you lack the understanding of at least one of the two.
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@LooksAeterna these gave me cause to re-examine my assumptions about the ability of Llamas to understand the nature of things, both inner and outer which, i believe are spiritual, infinite and eternal . You seem to have very little respect for these people. Because of this, i put it to you that you have done yourself a disservice, because with that attitude you will not advance as a spiritual being. I fear that you will remain trapped in ignorance, and that, I do not wish for anyone.
dressrehearsalrags 5 months ago
@dressrehearsalrags "You seem to have very little respect for these people."
"seem" (to YOU !) is the key word. It is YOU who doesn't even have enough respect of others to read what they are saying and reply properly.
I do not in fact have respect of any frivolous stupidity. That doesn't mean I lack respect for the stupid. It is stupidity to organize a panel discussion about, say, Chess openings with the Lamas and Great Chess Champions, becaus being a Lama doesn't qualify for chess (or QM).
LooksAeterna 5 months ago
@LooksAeterna The Dalai Lama gets a lot of press. But he's really too busy being a politician to be the best spiritual leader. Someone like Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is probably a better choice. But honestly, for good fusion of Stoicism, Buddhism, and real science, without all the silly metaphysical baggage that comes with Buddhism, people are probably better off reading Albert Ellis.
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 You are opening another whole can of worms here. I would not recommend GKG, without getting into the Shugden debate here, but then again I will generelly unrecommend the whole vow-ridden tantric approach for occidentals in whom it causes overwhelming misunderstanding and psychological regression of the worst kind - exceptions notwithstanding.
As regards "real science", well, Ellis is certainly not qualified to speak on the subject of this video - where I recommend Alan Wallace.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna My take home point would be that people shouldn't waste too much time on Buddhism based on the common claims that it's not a religion, or is friendly to science. re "religion": if it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck... And as you point out, the Dalai Lama lacks even basic knowledge of modern physics. Why consult him? "Less hostile than some" is a very low standard. I prefer just living a rational life. Out of curiosity, any thoughts on Robina Courtin?
tinyurl . com / 3h4v77
sbergman27 4 months ago
@sbergman27 I would say that for the purposes of most would be buddhsits, Eckhart Tolle and vipassana and cultivating a good heart does it. Keep an open mind and keep educating yourself. We can study the religions to get the truth of them out. In truth, no need for vows or any exclusivism.
Oh and I recommend the three main books by Bernadette Roberts ! An eye opener for buddhists.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@sbergman27 ...and yes, I do agree that this "buddhism is scientific" is bunk and has been a PR stunt of oriental Gurus (no only buddhists) ever since they perceived the superiority in power of the technology driven occident. It is for the same reason that they try to (wrongly !) present spirituality as something that can be "done" by a inward technology - a wrong notion even from the POV of their own tradition.
But: a religion is a religion is a religion, and easy to prove for buddhism.
LooksAeterna 4 months ago
@LooksAeterna "But: a religion is a religion is a religion, and easy to prove for buddhism."
I find that robes, monks, and monasteries are often a good tip-off. ;-)
sbergman27 4 months ago