The Damage Inside: Rollkur, Hyperflexion, LDR & Behind the Vertical

[XoxCrimsonLovexoX]

Ok we have a large pony "mutt" gelding (we think he's mustang+quarter+??) and he ALWAYS does Rollkur by himself! We have tried letting go of the reins completely, hackamores, different riders, different saddles, he's been checked by the vet, gets chiropractor work, we've tested like a zillion different bits!!!! What should I do?! Email: emi929@aim.com

[seandavidfusco]

My horse does this...but only every now and then. Most of the time he does it as an excuse not to stop...lol. He thinks i am asking him to collect and then when i pull back on the reins for a "whoa" He does that...Sooo, i pull his head back upward and then he stops. lol...he even does it when i ask him to whoa without reins and just my seat....He does it ALOT when he plays in the pasture...I think some horses have better ability to do it than others...not that it should be done, but still.....

[emma2797]

I'm not against hyperflexion if it is controlled. If my horse is bucking and rearing getting him in hyperflexion for a couple seconds allows me to take control. Also if your horse needs stretching in the poll a few seconds of hyperflexion now and then in warm up does him good and he will be much more compact and softer in the mouth. Somethimes hyperflexion is really exagerated, the horse should just be a little more closed in than usual for these types of exercises.

[timwaagmeester1987]

@emma2797 thank god I find someone who understand it!

[oliviabodycomb]

these arn't good riders at all

[oliviabodycomb]

so would damage be caused if you used a bridle without a bit and didn't rollkur or over collect?

[mistyofchincoteague1]

Isn't this the same as collecting?! I do the same thing with my horse then! It's when the horse bend's it's neck and walks like that?! LOL! She does that herself to get a treat anyway!

[mariskatjuu]

omg this movie is sow right... the best movie I have ever seen!! luckly there are people who see that this is so wrong... if I was a horse I would never accept this.

[taylorluvshorses16]

im a rider myself and I would NEVER make my horse bend or do ANYTHING like this. They think it looks good to have a horse bend like that, and some people think it's GOOD for them, but it's really not. Bending is one thing, but this is ridiculous

[hannahblackwolf14]

source of this idea- is the bad riders that are all well known..lots of people know that anky van grusen uses rollkur. and beginners may think that is what dressage is cause thats all theyve heard of. Lots of people DONT know that Blue Hors Matine was the greatest dressage horse ever!! Or who scored the highest score in the olympics last year. Nope- all you hear about is who used rollkur in the warm up arena. And thats all beginners are interested in... i agree LDR shouldnt be a method.

[timwaagmeester1987]

@hannahblackwolf14 First of all learn how to spell!! ANKY VAN GRUNSVEN !!

Second of all Anky and Steff are my trainers so shut the fuck up oke...When people are beginners they dont train with Low and deep. I ride horses sinds I was 6 so I know what I am doing...People always complain about Anky van Grunsven and Rollkur...get a live and please read and listen to her explenation before you say what you guys are saying!!

[rilndrmlrh]

@timwaagmeester1987 O_O You can't refute vets findings or the ruined horses out there, I don't care who your fucking trainer is. And YOU learn how to spell. It's retarded for you to make a remark like that then turn around and miss spell things yourself. I know plenty of people who think they know horses just because they've been riding all their lives. If you knowingly do damage to your horse to attain a certain look or win a ribbon you don't know squat. And that includes trainers.

[WrangaHorse]

And to think we aspire to ride like these 'professionals' one day...

[WrangaHorse]

And to think we aspire to ride like these 'professional' one day...

[LisbethPung]

Yeah, it's bad. A shame the video and the explenations sucked.

[Asmielle]

@LisbethPung

I tell you something... your comment was the first thing I saw that sucked.

[Channin22]

Get a life!

[littlbritt]

Je paard moe gewoon met z'n neussie horizontaal lopen. Het is helemaal niet nodig om

Z'n hoofd in Een fucking lus te leggen. Echt walgelijk dit! Paarden Zijn hulpeloos want als ze er iets tegen doen dan word er met een Zweep overheen geroffeld. Nou mijn paardje mag lekker ontspannen lopen hoor!

[Fairysnow666]

Idon't get it..some people have posted about using draw reins on their horses to get them on a nice outline.. but if your horse is working correctly on the backhand and is collected up properly, they tuck their head in nicely anyway, making drawreins and such things unnecessary..if you're prepared to spend the time,effort and tears to educate your horse properly, you're not gonna need tack or anything that could cause pain..just a thought :)

[G1ngerFox]

@Fairysnow666 On top of the training, it depends on the horse natural hability... Some just aren't made for getting a "round" outline... they are just opened, that's the way Nature made them! (like apaloosas)... (Sorry for the bad English, I'm French actually!)

[0532425]

@G1ngerFox yeah, i agree. My mum has an appaloosa x arab and he puts neck & head right out & low and stretches it out when he`s ridden, and thats just the way he was built and the way he carries himself. a horse does not havce to carry himself in a rounded outline to work propally, but some horses have the natural ability (and breeding) to be capable of doing it easier... and some dont....

by the way...

appaloosas are amazing! :D

[LORIM8810]

I will tell you the sercet of Rollkur, trainers use this to restrict oxygen to the brain of the horse the horses throax closes up. With less oxygen to the brain the horse then becomes calm and lightheaded and slows down because of to much carbon monoxide in the blood then the horse learns to be submissive to the rider's every comand because of fear of suffcation. Just like when a lion attacks a zebra it will go for the throax and then the drop down so liken these people to beasts of the feld.

[borderxt20]

@LORIM8810 is that true?please tell me your joking!

[Glykyrrhiza]

@LORIM8810 That's just sad. If people aren't talented enough to train a horse correctly they shouldn't attempt to.

[xFLYiNGxHiGH]

That's so sad!

[juliesong44]

Dear God, I cannot even stand to look at this. It is an obscenity. This horrific practice must be stopped!

[juliesong44]

Dear God, I cannot even stand to look at this. It is an obscenity. This horrific practice must be stopped!

[no1horselover]

I have an ex dressage horse that I ride with a rope halter and a bareback pad only. If I put a bridle on her she puts her head in this position as soon as I get on her (even if Im not holding the reins) shes been so fucking brainwashed.

[loveanimalsforever]

That was a brillaint video,,I only found out recentley what rollkur is and i`am shocked at why this isn`t banned,,I have never been a fan at seeing horses in professonal `outlines` as i feel it isn`t naturally

[briony1992]

@loveanimalsforever Being ridden at all isn't natural, but I think most people would agree that horses enjoy being ridden. Admittedly Rollkur is a step too far, but a normal outline encourages a horse to carry itself properly and can be very beneficial.

[MonsterCookieYum]

Horse riding and bits are fine but thats just sick!

necks dont bend that way...

[warrios700]

GRRR humans

thos little &%/"@£¢"&$%

[GenesisASUK]

Stop this it is disgusting...so cruel, these people are suppose to be in the sport for the love of horses!!!

[annaunddaslicht]

Thank you for this great documentation!!!

[HayleyBug552]

Oh i hate this, why would some one do that so such a beautiful animal! they should ban people from the FEI that use these sort of methods! The horses must really hate their owners, i couldnt really blame them though. That must hurt there necks so much!

[camillajonsson]

I think This LOOKS awful and I feel sorry for these beautiful horses. I wish that FEI would ban riders that uses this type of metodes.

Dressage should look beautiful and in harmony. This just scream abuse. So many hates on racehorses and standardbred racing but this is ok?

[mettescherner]

Oh and.. Really.. It's such a nice video. I can't really explain how much I enjoyed watching it. It's so well made and with such an enthusiasm and lust for making this really understandable and good for others to learn from.

Good job, you got them, chief! :)

[mettescherner]

Well made video! It's really professional made, it's all really good set up. And the facts!

Finally a video which really tells what it actually is and does to the horse.

I hope that it will open up eyes for the blinded people who keep trusting the "leading riders".. Or top riders. These we were supposed to look up to. These bastards who teach young kids to be brutal to the horse to make it hit the rang list and get the credits for them. Euw..

[valuta211]

.-. I use a figure eight. 

but I make close to no contact on the bit and she never EVER drools. (when my mom tightens the figure eight I always loosen it because I don't like to see her toss her head out of aggrevation because she can't move her mouth). I didn't know about all this. Thank you for sharing!

[cshotter]

all these poor horses with tons on metal in their mouths and drop nose bands on to stop them opening their mouth to get away from the pain

[Thehorselover32]

i started to cry cause the horses were, and still are, being "abused" like this..i have a very soft heart when it comes to the horses. i think that this should be banned from the face of the Earth...but thats my opinnion. everytime i see this happening at shows, i wanna set the horse free, away from their abusers....running free in the wild.

I can't take this anymore..

This is all i have to say: THIS AINT BEAUTIFUL U NUMBSKULLS! THIS IS TORTURE!!!!

if you think i this is beautiful, get a life!

[schneggilein89]

WHY ON EARTH would someone break a horse like THAT?? this looks so horrible.the poor horses!! i hope the riders fall off and break their necks. this is animal cruelty.

[rilndrmlrh]

Please, sit up straight tuck your chin to your chest. Now open your mouth and place your fingers on your bottom teeth and push down, not enough to cause pain in your jaw. Even gentle downward pressure should be enough to show you exactly what a horse experiences. You should see how this affects your horse's ability to breathe. Now, while you are like that get up and trot around the room and see...oh wait, you CAN'T...

[123Ihearthorses]

@rilndrmlrh Just saying...I tried that! All I did was drool!

[rilndrmlrh]

@123Ihearthorses Then you didn't have your chin pulled down far enough. And you couldn't see anything if you did. If you are pulling your horses mouth all the way to his chest and asking him to trot or canter, you are hurting him. Period. It's backed up by vet findings. This isn't debatable, it's a cold hard fact.

[MMVVMMVV95]

this is so embarrasing for the people who thinks that is so good, because both, human and horse, have to enjoy this activitie, and be healthy,

[MyPonyJericho]

These horses.... these beautiful, serene, trusting and loving animals... How someone can think this is OK I will never know... Watching this makes my stomach churn.. Some people are so sick. This actually made me cry... Those beautiful horses put up with this because they know no different. What hurts the most, these horses trust and respect their riders... Their riders betray that trust and do this to them?! Those horses are saints... I hope karma will even itself up someday... :']

[sham742]

Thank you for posting this informative video. I hope that the USDF and other organizations take action on this detrimental "training method." It ruins the beauty of dressage for so many who DO ride properly and with concern for their horse.

[iLoveBelliniBoy]

I use draw reins on my pony every so often. But obviously that is nothing like the Rollkur. i only use draw reins to get his head in neatly but he's still allowed his head. My pony looks like a giraffe compared to these poor horses. And when i ride him with draw reins he's happy & on the bit.

[iLoveBelliniBoy]

I use draw reins on my horse, but only to get him to have himself in a neat outline, never like this. My horse looks like a giraffe compared to these poor horses.

[defleppardlover]

horses are such trusting loving animals and to put them through this is so barbaric. dressage is an ART and art ends where force begins. rollkur is a horrible force placed upon horses and is damaging to them both mentally and physicall. i pity these horses so much, and i hope that one day anky will face justice for her distruction of these beautiful creatures.

[marciagibbons]

for all horse owners and riders, think about what is natural to a horse, not what you think looks good

[horseA123]

If you need all this crap to ride and you think you're riding well with it, you shouldn't be riding at all. Your horse and his/her comfort should always come first. If you can't do what you want to do with a plain snaffle and a willing horse, then it shouldn't be done. There is NO sport that is worth causing a horse discomfort. If you think there is, then it is about YOU and not your love of horses and you need to think about that.

[JumpingHorses35]

Rollkur is MUCH pain for a horse!!.. O: :O

It should be forbidden to do Rollkur, on every horse!!! o:

Or it is my answer!

And that's what I think! (;

[bbbask]

@purplejumpergirl That why I try to educate ppl about rolkur as much as I can :)

Glad you've come around and I;m sure your horse i glad too :)

[zoedj]

being ridden correctly on the bit, is beautiful to watch... this... however, really?? there are not enough words to describe the turning in my stomach.

[itsmypony2010]

Could this be the cause of Salinero's wither injury? I don't know, but Rollkur must put a lot of stress on the withers. If it is I hope Anky thinks about it. I'm sure she loves her horses but she must realise the stress involved.

[vetsci4463]

Thanks for sharing 

[Sarma1188]

Bone deformation, severe change of the chemical qualities of saliva, fractures of the atlanto-occipital membrane. Just part of the sad story of dressage. Not to mention rollkur.

If only horses could scream... "Sportists" would need earplugs.

[MetalloidCurse]

i don't care how great anyone who uses the rollkur method thinks it is, if a horse is slobbering mouth-foam all over itslef i think any ignorant rider would know something isn't right in the method.

[MinnaSensei]

Its so cruel :( I haven rided a horse long time, but I were at riding school almost 6years, never used Rollkur ect.

[StellaliebtNelo]

Sehr gutes Viedeo!!! Aber nicht schön!!! Die armen Pferde...

[GermanysNextLasse]

Its nasty and pervers

[TheYehhaa]

GaelicsRose* Im confused, what do you mean by bridaling your Arab? The example in this video is NOT normal.

[GaelicsRose]

@TheYehhaa research it. Arabians hold there head down and low its there headseat and there used to it because it comes naturally to them

[GaelicsRose]

@TheYehhaa watch my video revenge+cytes red rose. you will see my horse an half arab holding its head the traditional way for hunter pleasure and western pleasure

[Behemothpwns]

I'm completely against rollkur. Thanks for the fantastic video.

[IronFreePony]

What a beautiful and sad video. Thank you for sharing, and I hope more people can see the awful damage they are causing their "beloved" horses.

[GaelicsRose]

its called bridaling and all dainty headed or dressage horses do it. i have an arab i have to bridal her its the way you have to ride them

[MissBubbles12431]

@GaelicsRose this video has OPENED my EYES as a horse lover.

watchin this and seeing the facts and about what it does is crul.

GAELICSROSE you say this is "they way you have to ride them" what BULLSHIT.

ride them so they cant breath? really nice. its unatural and really it dose not look pretty. maybe you people that ride like this should have the same thing done to u a bit in ur mouth and ur head pulled right back so you cant breath and see the damage it causes you. this is crul.

[GaelicsRose]

@MissBubbles12431 ah stfu years of breeding good dressage horses has made it easyer and easyer for them to do that. i have to do that with my arabian even though i dont do dressage. for some horses its there NATURAL way of holding there head for example arabians. only we dont pin them back to there chest. and OBVIOUSLY they have to have there head in! there not ganna go into the ring with there head all up in the air! i love horses so much i belive in having there head in but not pinned to chest

[boofheadrules]

What sort of DICKHEAD would do this to a poor horse??? OFCOURSE dressage wankers...!!!!!!!!!! Some people should have been blown on the curtains ..

[GaelicsRose]

@boofheadrules okay, i love dressage, dont say anothe rbad thing about it "regirgetated cum bubble"

[dressagerevolution]

If you are interested in helping to end this kind of front-to-back riding and move back to a classical ideal, please consider visiting the new not-for-profit dressagerevolution-dot-com.

[Back2TrueForm]

It is encouraging that the FEI **finally** has taken a stance against "aggressive force." However! this is not enough. Simply being behind the vertical for extended periods of time damages a horse. In "the old days" of true, classical dressage, riders were penalized severely for riding a horse behind the vertical. And the damage to internal structures of head and throat are just the beginning. Also ruins the back and the hind legs. Authentic roundness comes from engaging the hindquarters!

[ironstarfarm]

Agreed. This is not beautiful or natural. The horse has no sound for pain. Imagine a warm-up arena if they did.....

[lelandac]

This looks like a medieval torture contraption. No horse (or person, or any other animal) would hold his head in this postition willingly. I am sickened by this and also have signed many petitions. The natural carriage of a horse is a thing of real beauty, not this hideous distortion.

[wcibis]

I would challenge anyone who thinks this is acceptable (or finds defining where this goes over the line) to get down on their hands and knees, pin their chin to their chest and then have an average sized 5 year old get on their back while trying to reach as far as possible out in front of themselves with their hands while bringing their legs under them. Can you breathe????

[copenhagen1966]

music or not, i cant watch this

[HorseAmateur]

This video is so wrapped in sentimental music it looses its point. Get to the facts and keep the tears for other reasons.

Lets have a look at all these beginner riders who ride with lots of hands and definitely strong behind the vertical. Is it better than a professionnal controlling a controversial movement?

What we look for in abuse: badly done movements, and time. And a combination of both.

I am a horse show steward (including dressage), and defining limits is really complex...

[Graffinsfansgirl]

@HorseAmateur: that's waht the video shows: facts!

Do you honestly think it makes any difference to the horse wether a beginner or a professional forces him into that horrible position?

As long as there are people like you being willing to oey those cruel rules horses are going to suffer.

Of course defining limits is complex but there's a certain point where it's obvious: a horse behind the vertical!

[raphmaster23]

@Graffinsfansgirl And thats why her name is horseamateur...

[taraheartsdancer]

@Graffinsfansgirl defining the limits is easy you spam!! Go research

[Equestriana]

Perhaps if the upper level competitors didn't train and show this way, the beginners wouldn't have something so damaging to emulate? No doubt this is visible at all levels. But it's the top level people that point the way because they get so much publicity and air time, and it's a huge responsibility on their part to show the classical training according to the FEI rules, if only for the well-being of the horse.

Let's see how the FEI defines the terms, to prevent any further misconceptions..

[fatboyjeanne]

The jury is out. Rollkur has now been banned. Turn the music off. It may help you see more clearly.

[SusannahCord]

Hi Loveyabella - the reason we are not popping the champagne and dancing in the streets is that this 'resolution' is no resolution at all. LDR, Rollkur and Hyperflexion to date are interchangeable. LDR is what the Rollkurers called Rollkur before it was coined Rollkur by the germans, and Hyperflexion by the FEI. So politically clever, but does nothing for the horse. It's a name game. What remains to be seen are the new definitions, and will THEY make a difference. The upside - it's debated now!

[Loveyabella]

Today the FEI decided that any head and neck position achieved through aggressive force is not acceptable....This makes me unbelievably happy.:)I thought it would make you guys happy too, to see something being done about it.

[MarthaFaith1]

Thank you Nadja, We are here to support you and PK, today February 9, 2010... and for all the horses everywhere.Futhermore, for those who have eyes that "know how to Listen" to the horses, we must carry on together.

[alk1962]

Very powerful piece - every horse rider should watch this regardless of riding discipline. The damage done to the horse & the sadness & pain in their eyes in too unbearable.

[diana2507]

you know...its not just about the damage.. There is NOT one horse on this video that looks HAPPY to be working. My 4 year old arab i just started does collection all on his own with just a Parelli hackamore. and two fingers on the reins.

AND HE IS HAPPY to be ridden and comes to the fence to pick me up and offers me his back to get on... now thats what i call a HAPPY horse.

[msnvrmind]

Powerful video. The day will not come too soon when this poor excuse for "training" is abolished. Those who who use this should be ashamed.

[merseylassy]

Powerful. and very distressing.i pray we can stop this abuse and have sighned many petitions

[5namasta2]

I want to echo Christuris and Susannah's well stated comments - we need to educate the mass horse fan base on the dangers of hyperflexion.

[lassiesuca]

fantastic video, really powerful xx

[SusannahCord]

This is what we need - more education, that people may understnad it is more than a philosophical issue, and that despite what the FEI and others tell us, there is already plenty of evidence proving Rollkur is detrimental to a horses' health and wellbeing. Thank you for oding this!

[k8110381]

Good video. Its so awful that this goes on. :'(

[christuris]

A POWERFUL, POWERFUL piece! Everyone should know the repercussions of training in such a way, especially those who would emulate their idols who practice this both in private and in public. May the February 9th 2010 FEI meeting precipitate a turnaround in this despicable practice. KEEP THE PRESSURE ON!