Systema and Ground-fighting Demetry Furman May 2006

[richardaubin]

@imstilly This is only an exercise... One partner learns to apply various down pressure while partner 2 works on escaping from various positions. 

[imstilly]

this just looks like knee on belly to me from jiujitsu. not systema. nice to see this guy has took some jj classes. i'm sure there are techniques from systema that can be applied to bjj. btw knee on bell is not great for self defence as they can just punch u in the balls/grab ur balls from the bottom

[serdgeedgerunner]

Why classical wrestler show systema?

[BudoWolfy]

I have seen a traditional Ju Jitsu class were weapons were hidden in the training area and if found could be used...wooden batons...trainingknives....rop­es etc. Ill finish by just saying MAfanatic I agree before you slag off BJJ go to the classes see it in action...but please remember this goes both ways see systema in action feel it and experience it. Oh and Im from a tradtional system ima traditionalist but i dont make excuses i plug gaps i cover short falls dont judge all by the action of 1

[patrickhenrysghost]

@BudoWolfy Systema is 100% faggotry

[BudoWolfy]

Is the UFC the best judge of a street worthy system....partially.....the problem with the UFC is that it is a set piece...it is a dual, most street fights are not a dual so therefore suprise attacks etc need to be taken into account, systema does this. Ok does system routinely train with improvised weapons routinely defend themselves against weapons...how do we know they dont unless we go to the systema classes and see and im not talking just one class here.

[BudoWolfy]

That just shows to me that he is willing to improve his abilities by taking up another system...this is the reason I originally started to cross train my original system had very little ground work there for i took up BJJ and later lute livra. Is BJJ the ultimate martial art?...No..there IS no ultimate martial art.....BJJ usually uses the strikes from another system (Muay Thai etc) to supplement its grappling...this is not wrong...it is simply basic common sense.

[BudoWolfy]

Ok for the record I have trained in many arts including BJJ, Lute Livra, Traditional Ju Jitsu, Boxing, Muay Thai and have many years experience in those systems.

ok my take on this

For all those saying they see BJJ and this guy must have had BJJ training...please remember there are only so many ways the body can move...all grappling systems will have techniques and certain principles in common...thing about this and you will see the logic. Now...if this guy has had BJJ training.....so what?

[ilanchico]

BTW the free fighting in brazil was brutal and had 0 rules and bjj still dominated. I am not saying bjj is the best art but its a highly effective martial art. I feel that it is insecurity of people who have done a martial art for 15 years and lose to a bjj guy who come on here and complain. It;'s like saying boxing isnt street effective cuz they only punch. I personaly have seen an amateur boxer take out 4 guys quick. When you spar all day you;ll be able to protect yourself regardless of style

[mattm1836]

You hit the nail on the head. Many people train in systems that have lost time and again to BJJ yet still insist if only the UFC allowed biting their system would rule.

[MAfanatic]

traditional MA masters make excuses. But in reality, deep down, they know the truth. They feed their students lies about ancient masters, deadly strikes and "IF ONLY" rhetoric. If UFC allowed groin shots and eye gauges, I can assure you, grapplers would be blinding these same masters. UFC is as close to reality fighting as we can get (aside from Brazil's Vale Tudo/NHB) legally. Masters want to keep their students so they lie about their own skills so students wont go to nearest MMA gym.

[MAfanatic]

I was awakened to BJJ after having many full contact fights (stand up) and had three black belts. A grappler will defeat someone who never grappled all the time. If a nongrappler has some solid full contact experience, MAYBE he has a chance. Most martial artist masters with 15/20 years experience WOULD LOSE to BJJ fighter with as little as a 6month/year training. BJJ is more scientific than most MAs. You can't beat it unless you train in it.

[ilanchico]

quite frankly i find the comments like "well his three friends will be hitting you:" completely absurd. I know someone who was attacked by a mob of guys, he grabbed one and chocked him against a wall and used him as a shield till they backed off. He trains only BJJ. People seem to make up absurd situations to discredit bjj. Like what if 15 guys who are military trained with machine guns snuck in to your house and attacked you. your bjj would be useless. GIVE ME A BREAK PEOPLE

[mattm1836]

Amen Brother. The BJJ haters seem to not realize that most fights are one on one. They also don't realize that the fight may go to the ground whether they want it to or not.

[MAfanatic]

My response is, most BJJ and MMA guys would do better than most MA masters. I have yet to find a BJJ fighter who is NOT FIT (most MA masters are so out of shape they couldn't handle one fighter) enough and doesn't know enough Muay Thai type strikes to fend off an attacker. I have also seen BJJ guys win in Vale Tudo Brazil using STRIKES ALONE against Karate, Muay Thai and Luta Livre. People who are cowards will always make excuses.

[ilanchico]

First of all BJJ was originaly founded as a complete self defense system and if taught properly still is. The bottom line is the following. BJJ will not only save your life if you hit the ground but also will allow you to stand back up much easier. It teaches you to close distance. balance and much much more. if 5 people are attacking you your in trouble regardless of what you know and most likely will get taken down. if you slam someone down in a fight you dont need to go down with them

[MAfanatic]

I have trained in great BJJ schools. Most classes are broken down into: 1. Gi Grappling (competitive - very good for the street) 2. No Gi submission grappling 3. Self Defense (similar to old school Japanese Jiujitsu) 4. Vale Tudo / MMA - Brazilian Jiujitsu with Muay Thai Boxing for submission set ups. BJJ is MORE COMPLETE and MORE REALISTIC than 99.9% of traditional martial arts. I was enlightened when I joined BJJ. I didn't want to critique without feeling the art out. Most just want to lie.

[jalidav1]

i am fed up of all this rubbish bout a bjj guy or mma guy in a real street fight, truth is if you are a bjj guy in a real streetfight, if you drag a man to the floor you are very quickly going to get stomped on by his three mates, they dont stand around and applaud your fantastic technique, that is the world we live in. if you want to learn something that will help you in a real conflict, learn to stay stood up at all costs because the last place you wanna be is in bootsville

[MAfanatic]

I can assure you that most martial artists would be dragged down by even the LEAST experienced street thug (especially if he has friends). BJJ would help you keep the fight standing. Whatever art you practice WILL LET YOU DOWN. You don't have to trust me, guy on Youtube, just join a submission grappling school/bjj for a couple of months. You'll lose nothing. Most BJJ schools also teach Muay Thai as part of their Vale Tudo curriculum. Traditionalists are clueless and make excuses.

[ltpliskenjg]

well concearning the earlier argument over mma vs systema just think about the intent of this stuff guys.

mma bjj there more for compedetive fighting its a sport now more than anything and its very effective in that respect and even on the street. but systema is a military combat method more suited to street fights and real life encounters .

its like comparing boxing with tai chi ,there completley different in their intended usage.

[mattm1836]

Then why didn't the System guys win in the early days of the UFC when only eye gouging and biting were outlawed?

[MAfanatic]

There are many touch guys in all arts. But before anyone criticizes an art (like critics of BJJ), that person should at least train in BJJ for a little bit. Too many students are brainwashed by their masters to believe "oh, bjj is just sport." But most good schools include training in boxing, muay thai, greco roman, and traditional self defense (of course gi and no gi grappling is included and competition classes are held - but so what). People make these comments out of fear of reality.

[MAfanatic]

Any deadly art should do just fine in an MMA ring. Do systema guys routinely get into street fights? Do they routinely fight with weapons or improvised weapons? Do they routinely defend themselves against weapons? Are your statements based on anecdotal evidence. I saw a Spetsnaz guy teaching 'russian martial art' defeated by a Russian Thai Boxer in 3 minutes flat. He couldn't deflect any good combination punches.

[MAfanatic]

I have attended Vlad's seminars, and he is really a very tough guy. However, every video on Youtube that claims to show Systema vs. MMA, BJJ, Karate, Boxing, etc. is erroneous. The only true semi fight I saw, the sytema guy got beaten by a Muay Thai guy. Demetry Furman on this video is not using Systema. It's easy to tell that he has a solid bjj background. Most of the videos here of him grappling (or teachign grappling) are bjj 101.

[Tolstiy1980]

Dima is good, I can see really solid base in his moves. He is in Calgary?

[StopMoColorado]

Youngster, I spent two days following Vladimir with a camera last year, & I can tell you *first hand*, HE IS THE MAN. And I can tell you from talking with Vlad and others, *Mikhail Ryabko* will hit you so hard with his left hand less than a cm away from your chest that you'll wish you hadn't been born. There aren't fixed techniques in Systema, but there are some trademark *drills*, for sure. Ask Oleg Taktarov (UFC 3 champ) what he thinks of Vlad (did vid with him). Roll in a class, cymru troll.

[systemadowntown]

Yeah, and you were on the Canadian National Wrestling Team, placing #6 at the Pan Am Games in 1992. Demetry did! Were you Olympic class! You guys always comment, but you never show up when invited to roll with the man. LOL! He's teaching beginners, for all you world authorities out there!

[Bumknee]

LOL @ all these new kung fu grappling masters emerging since grappling has become popular again

[Uhohninjas]

Wow. What complete crap. Why dont you roll against a guy that actually knows how to grapple? If youre so good, then why dont you come into a BJJ school and steal all their students? Watch this guy join a white belt BJJ tournament and see what happens. A decent BJJ white belt would run over this fraud.

[Rusophilo]

Hey you,  bully Demetry Furman is a real grappler, You can write the Machado Bros., If you need more info, Why no visit him?

[Will3I9Am]

Ninja question? You ever been in a situation before, I don't mean in a ring at all, I mean oh shit Im gonna die? no offense but you try and bring me down with BJJ Im gonna stab you atleast 30 times or so. Besides he's not really sparring he's demonstrating principles.

I haven't had the opportunity to train in systema, but I have real world experience in self defense nonethless Think with logic and realize most arts out there do not train for self defense, Systema does

[rydam]

Totally agree dude, this guys grappling is just terrible, and I would love to see a video of him actually fighting someone who was decent at sub grappling or bjj.

What an insult to the gulibility of humanity.

[StopMoColorado]

Man, what a bunch of ignorant turds. Some of DF's credentials have already been posted here and you can see more of his "terrible grappling" in Mikhail Ryabko's wrestling DVD. Demetry has gone up against MANY MMA & BJJ guys, and was a very successful "wrestler" in his past. You don't understand what you're seeing (Systema), hence the words spoken in ignorance. Systema is NOT a technique based art, but I suppose you know much better than any of these guys (or the Machados) from watching YouTube.

[rydam]

You can post any credentials you want but they are useless unless they are backed up by solid evidence. We wouldnt even be having this discussion now if there was video evidence of DF sparring with sub grapplers, BJJ and MMA guys because that says more than any 'posted credentials' can say.

We are the ones being ignorant? If systema is not a technique based art then how did it reach a standard form, how did it come to have trademark techniques that everyone in the MA community recognises?

[Tolstiy1980]

Could you please post the video where you show how to do that? How to wrestle properly.

[MAfanatic]

This guy is not grappling utilizing "systema." He looks like he had some Brazilian Jiujitsu training. I'm 99.9% certain of that. In a similar video titled 'systema vs. mma' the same guy uses some basic bjj against a less experienced apponent. It's hardly fair to call this 'systema vs. mma.' Unless the guy actually fights in a MMA competition, all claims of systema being superior to boxing, wrestling, mma, bjj, etc. are just 'claims.' As for Vladimir, he is trully a tough guy.

[blueingreentrain]

yeah obviously true. he's just maintaining knee-ride on the other guy who has absolutely no guard retention whatsoever. Demetry is like a decent white belt level in BJJ. If only the other guy had some guard game.

[MAfanatic]

It looks like he's a fit guy, but he must have either watched some BJJ/ JUDO videos or took some BJJ classes. There is nothing here that's Systema and/or Siberian grappling. I know Vlad Vasiliev has systema ground fighting video tapes. My friend has them and they're great. This is just mediocre Brazilian Jiujitsu

[Tolstiy1980]

Hey, dude, he is good. If you don't see that - go and buy eyeglasses.

[StopMoColorado]

Nice vid - thanks for posting!

[TheTypenator]

a bit of live work...