Added: 4 months ago
From: MrPixelTech
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  • Too much math!!!!!!!!!

  • Woo math made interesting!!!

  • ur slow

  • ................NERD!!

    

  • wart are you talking about?

  • Dude i planted a peace of nw next to a peace of glowstone and it just got to stage 2 in just like 3 seconds after i planted it, can you tell me what happend.

  • How come you get to record minecraft and put ads on your channel when youtube says posting video gameplays is copyrighted material?

  • wat did you say :P

  • 1:10 :P

  • so many dumb people....

  • so many dumb people....

  • MY BRAAAAAIIIIIIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!

  • Fo nether warts only gorw in the nether?

  • can you grow nether wart in normal wrold(not nether) ?

  • @MinecraftingNinja No. only nether on soulsand.

  • ...............WTF ARE YOU SAYING!!!!

  • for the sake of all those with OCD could you PLEASE replace the bricks with shade issues? x.x

  • @1stSepToFar see a tharapist thats how i got rid of my ocd :p

  • when you said Okay does that make sense... i said.. NOE!!.... :/ i hate math.

  • i hate math

  • Genius. Thank you good sir!

  • cheese is a speciese

  • 10 minutes pub.....WTF????

  • Your very good at minecraft stuff

  • nice video!

  • If you mined (or deleted with mcedit) all other blocks within that chunk will it affect growth

  • Also, the 15x15 chunk area that undergoes updating... I think it's supposed to be diameter, not radius, since only a 9 chunk radius (19x19 area) is actually loaded at one time (it actually depends on render distance iirc). So it's 7 chunks in each direction from the one the player is in that undergoes update checking.

  • will nether wart still grow if i am in the normal world?

  • @niIIer1 nope 'cause entire nether is pausend whilu ure in overworld

  • @sammmmko thanks

    

  • @niIIer1 no

  • @niIIer1 No,he covered it that in Part 1 of Netherwart 101

  • @niIIer1 no it will not. you need to grow it on soulsand in the nether. no lava/light needed but you could include that.

  • @niIIer1 Nope, you can plant it, but it wont grow in the normal world.

  • @niIIer1 no

  • @niIIer1 no

  • @niIIer1 no

  • nether wart farming doesnt work for me coz it gets up to stages 2 and 3 and when i harvest it it only givese me 1

  • @5retfffqq wait never mind i know now. but now i have a question. if i make a nether wart farm in the nether, and then go into the over world, will the nether wart still grow?

  • :D finaly agood video! if i wasnt on my brothers account i'd subscribe! when i get on tonight i will tho

  • if you wanted to place water in creative mode with ice, you can place it, then put a torch next to it.

  • how does one pick up neather wart, because everytime i try to pick it up. only one drops. even thou its in stage 2-3

  • on the bit where you talk about the bud switches you could use an array of 5 or so bud switches to make it a bit more accurate..

  • why would building in diffrent chunks increase the speed of growth? each netherwart has 0.061% chance of chosen for an update(and a 0.0041% chance of growing) regardless of whether there are any other netherwarts in the chunk or not. Therefore, 256 netherwarts in four diffrent chunks should grow the same rate as 256 netherwarts in the same chunk.

  • @GekkeDennis15 it's because the chance is multiplied by 4. You have 4 chunks with nether warts, not one, so you have to consider those probabilities added on. I don't know if its added or multiplied, but its basically a much higher yield than just one chunk. Pls rewatch the video where he explains it @ 05:10 and @07:50

  • @Skystarch88 Your fallacy is that your chance is not actually multiplied by 4. Even though you have 80 chunk updates across your farm instead of 20, your chance of a chunk update hitting a netherwart is decreased by 4 because you only have a quarter of your netherwart in every chunk. By this video's logic, putting 256 netherwart across 256 diffrent chunks, by putting 1 in each chunk, the farm shoud grow 256 times faster then by putting all the netherwart in the same chunk, but that doesnt happen

  • @GekkeDennis15 It's not a matter of 8x8 x4 being more efficient than a 16x16. It is more efficient if you're going to utilize less than a full chunk to spread across multiple chunks. However, due to the independence of each individual block selection and also the selections not being over all chunks but each chunk individually, the percentage difference is something ridiculously small (less than half a percent) between 8x8 x4 vs 16x16 x1.

  • @GekkeDennis15 it's a 0.061% chance of an update per chunk. Which, again, brings in independence to the tests (update checks). Lemme check the link (keep in mind this video is month old) and see if edptry updated the old link like he did everything else.

  • @GekkeDennis15 rephrase, chance of a particular block being updated per chunk. So if I place on block in one chunk, it has 0.061% chance of being selected. If I place a block in 4 chunks, and I don't care which of the 4 is selected, each of them has an independent 0.061% chance of being selected. B/c of the reduction of real-estate, the result, overall, is a bit counter-intuitive as the 8x8 x4 isn't exactly 4x more productive than 8x8 x1. If I remember the numbers, it was like 3.75x or so.

  • How can I find the epicentre of the chunk? without downloading a whole bunch of mods and stuff

  • @Greyknight101 just press f3. it shows you what coordinates he was talking about. For example: 80x 80z was the epicenter. 

  • is it the same for 1.0.0?!?!

  • I wish I could understand what you are talking about.

  • My head hurts.

  • Does Nether Wart spread? Like muschrooms?

  • but i went idle by my Wart farm for 30 mins and all of it had grown to full it was ~120 wart plants

  • Maybe U already covered this but. Do nether warts grow in the overworld if u where to put them in soulsand?

  • I got 4 Nether wart from 1 fully grown 1

  • sooo does the same thing still applies to 1.0.0??

  • he just made the danish flag :D

  • what if u were to delete everything but the nether wart and soulsand in the chunk?

  • @merin324 air blocks count as well :/

  • @MrPixelTech damn

    

  • @MrPixelTech You don not need an audomated farming system with pistons. just use a buket of lave

  • My head gurts

  • It happened again. This time, all I did was ride my railroad away from the Netherwart farm, and when I got back, all the Netherwart was broken. Has anyone seen anything like this?

  • @mdgates100 do you hvae it enclosed? The *ambient* light level in the nether is 8.... if you manage to reduce the light level below that, it will break when it grows.

  • @MrPixelTech: Aha! I booted up a creative world, and I was able to duplicate the issue and resolve it by adding light.

    It makes me wonder how light in the Nether works. Even a fully enclosed box isn't light level zero, but it is apparently enough to make Netherwart break.

  • Dear Pixel Nation,

    My fledgling Netherwart farm suffered a serious setback today. I had expanded it from a few seeds to 12 plants. But when I came back from working on my railroad, I found that there were only 3 plants left, and 3 seeds on the ground. Most of the seeds must have despawned.

    What happened? I know it wasn't a Ghast, because my windows weren't broken. Pigmen spawn indoors sometimes, but they don't trample Netherwart, do they? Maybe the Netherwart is allergic to my tree farm?

  • Does the chunk thing apply to pre realese 5?

  • MichaelMantion, I thought the same thing for a few seconds but really it's quite simple what's missing (The large numbers just make it hard to see).

    You're not considering the case where both get picked at the same tick, which can't happen if they're in the same chunk. Small chance, but it counts.

    Try using some easier to conceptualize numbers it might help (EG: Dice rolls, 1 dice rolling 5+ compared to 2 dice rolling for 6's, which is the same as if the farm covered 1/6th of the chunk).

  • so it can take 2 mins aobut (near 100 seconds) if it doesn't pick 1 block twice and

    The reason a "redstone" tick is 1/10th of a second is becuase it tick 1/20th of a second to update the block and 1/20th of a second to update the torch in a repeater

  • Monster wheat AND nether wart farm time!

  • I want to thank you for going into the Science and math part of Minecraft. I need to know more. I want to know all the science behind it. It would REALLY help when building animal/mob farms.

    THANK YOU :)

  • @wallofchaos No problem, you're more than welcome :)

  • I am having a hard time understanding why a farm spanning 4 chunks will update any faster then the same size farm in one chunk.

    I think regardless of the chunks the farm span the growth rate is the same.

  • @MichaelMantion Understandable, I think many are having a hard time with it. I went and had my thinking double-checked by my RL friend (who, and only to lend credit to his findings, has a Master's in Modeling and Simulation and is in the process of becoming an actuary) stated that the probability among the 4 chunks changes because you're increasing the sample set. He stated, mathematically this would be best explained by independence in probability theory, since each of the 20 block (cont'd)

  • @MichaelMantion selections are independent (the same block can be selected twice). And each instance of those 20 selections per chunk are independent (since they happen simultaneously), that the chance of a PASS event occurring across 4 test sets instead of 1, is higher providing the test sets are identical (e.g. 64 blocks in each chunk). Though we both agree that a 16x16 in 1 chunk still maintains a higher probability (but is harder to farm). And fyi, he NEVER agrees with me :P

  • @MichaelMantion Anyways, I hope that makes sense, I'm just attempting to recall the conversation to the best of my ability. You've been around a bit, you know when I'm aware that I'm wrong and someone has been able to show me why, I'm more than willing to publicly post a retraction :) (e.g. my initial statement of 28 bookshelves, then 32, then 30) :D

  • @MrPixelTech From what I understood from your video 400 blocks in a chunk are updated every second. Regardless if they are air, rock, water, or a neither wart. I understood your concept that 4 times the tests are performed, but each chunk has 1/4th the number of neither in each chunk. So yes 4 chunks get tested but there is 1/4th the chance of update. But let me think about it for a bit. I absolutely have been wrong many many many times and like you, I am not ashamed to admit it.

  • @MichaelMantion Did you think about it? Because I agree with you, no matter how many different angles I approach this from.

  • to many snall numbers my head will explode 4:18

  • Blazes now die by snowballs so a Blaze Grinder using Snowlems will be awesome. One that makes use of the limited range of the Snowlem and that doesnt require much maintenance by replacing the dead Snowlems

  • @EmperorOfLols yeah an auto-snow golem generator may be in order... hmmm

  • @MrPixelTech what i mean is that the trap is very effective doing dmg that there are almost no casualties but dont try to make a automatic snowlem generator, after all, you cant move the pumpkins for the game to register that you want to make one and terraforming a large area of the nether may not be fun (unless you also want to make a Ghast grinder and need to clear most of the area but its gonna be difficult because Ghast do more damage now)

  • I'm not sure why people like building auto-harvesting farms anyway. Since the drops will just despawn if you're not there to collect them, and since all farms (except reed and cactus) require replanting/retilling anyway, isn't it better to wait till you're there to tend them before harvesting?

  • @nochsta Everyone likes over-complicating things in minecraft, it's part of the fun :D

  • @MrPixelTech Hey dude, could you pls tell docm77 tos top mob grinding and spend his experience points. He is wasting so vast amounts of expierence and i think has better things to do, than mob grinding... Talk some sense into him! he just leveled up to 120...

  • @Trugbildjaeger ? Docm77 wants to enchant all his armor and sword to level 50 (45+). Thats about 250 levels he will need.

  • @Trugbildjaeger I did, I think he listened ;)

  • one of my favorite MC youtubers tavirider returns! new name and new nation! let us know when you change things around! and go back to the 'hey kids....'

    hehe love your work man

  • @danthemanxf Thanks :)

  • Awesome video! One thing I don't get though, why can't you bring water in the Nether? I have brought buckets of water tothe nether before.

  • Really great and informational videos, subscribed!

  • @tyrantsify Thanks, welcome to the PixelNation!

  • loved the effort put into this! Joined the PixelNation (subscribed)

  • Happy for you man :D Nice video once again!

  • @SideFlame Thanks :D

  • This was interesting. I love the having minecraft explained with math.

  • @xMBotx Glad you enjoyed it :)

  • yaaay mrpixeltech! your on the minecraftfourms!

  • you could have placed the ice block and then a torch next to it ;)

  • @w00dYd3luXe hmm, valid point :P

  • okay then to have the highest probability of getting nether warts to grow to stage 3 is standing on block 0,6,0 with multifloored and every accountable chunk having netherwarts on them from y=7-125. That means that if Notch or Jeb don't change this to something better then a high yield netherwart farm needs to be x chunks per render distance. where render distance is max render userendmachinecanhandle. Why Notch Why?

  • your the best!

  • wolfram alpha is a computational knowledge engine

  • @copedudeqwerty LOL, yes, it's "more than a search engine" :D

  • (continued) 14.48% and 14.52% (to 4 significant figures). Therefore, 4 8x8 pads have a slightly higher chance 0.04% to have at least 1 update.

    Okay, I was wrong, as I wasn't considering the 20 checks. I still find it very difficult to understand (other than doing the maths) why it would make absolutely any difference.

    Perhaps (and this is without doing the maths), it affects the chance of at least one, but not the overall growth - I shall have to investigate!

  • @iamstupidomc Yay! I enjoy not being completely crazy :D Thanks for taking the time to double check through the math itself. epdtry and I both agreed that a few of the results were counter-intuitive but he checked and re-checked the math :)

  • @MrPixelTech Yeah, I think you're completely right. I'm currently racking my brain to work out why this is so! While I respect the maths, I always (well, when I can be bothered) try to think of why and this will be nagging me for the rest of the night :D

    If I come up with anything, I'll let you know

  • @MrPixelTech This all being said shouldn't this method work for every farm? (considering the differences in the nether & normal world)

  • @iamstupidomc Right, to the best of my understanding... I'm not trying (and I'll re-review the video) to say that I'm going to get necessarily higher probability on a single block, since the probability per chunk is uniform. I'm saying that by putting my farms into multiple chunks (where, in each instance of the random check, 20 more blocks are selected per chunk). The chances are slightly higher that one of my pad's blocks will be chosen instead of being in an individual chunk.

  • @MrPixelTech (continued) it was very quick working and had me doing this calculation with Wolfram|Alpha: 4*((20/512)(511/512)^79)*(1-((­20/512)(511/512)^79))^3... Something tells me I made a mistake somewhere: I tried dividing it up into the cases of when it occurs on the first check (of the 20), then on the second, etc. but then I had to divide each of those cases into 4 more for the 4 8x8 ones - and it quickly got out of hand. I just hope that some commenter finds a mistake that (continued)

  • @MrPixelTech Ok, so we agree upon uniform probability for each Netherwart. You're basically saying that 20 blocks per chunk are checked, so if I put 20 Warts at most in each chunk, I'm most efficient. Or if I would spread the Wart over all 15x15 chunks, it would be even more efficient! Tempting to think like that. But the bottom line is: each Wart has a probability of 0.00407 %, and that IS the bottom line already. All your thoughts are included in that value already. That's how probability worx

  • @iamstupidomc It is funny though, to me, it made logical sense, edptry kept saying the same things "but the chunk boundries shouldn't matter" and finally did the math and went "oh..." :D I was waiting for him to rage quit off of aim b/c I just kept saying "just... just do the math for me, that's all I'm asking" :P

  • @MrPixelTech It seems we both had the same reaction :P

    I've tried investigating it, by seeing how the chances change as to how many are updated, i.e. the 16x16 might give more updates on avg when it is updated and that cancelling it out; but, when I did the calcs (and only for the chance of only 1 and it seems like 16x16 had a higher chance that 8x8 of getting 1 update only (13.46% to 12.09%), so if anything 8x8 also gets higher yields! [I don't trust my working at all, though (continued)

  • @iamstupidomc (continued) we've made, 'cause it just doesn't make sense! :P

    But, seriously, great videos - and it's really weird that in your previous nether wart video that light appeared to affect it greatly; yet, in reality, there's no difference in the code. I guess that's what happens when there's a large element of chance in the experiment - I guess if it were repeated, that there'd be times when the other side seemed to do it. Anyway, enough of my rambling in this 3 comment long comment.

  • So, if we go through random choice of block, one at a time, we find that the chance of it being in an 8x8 grid is 8*8/(16*16*128). The chance of it being in a 16x16 grid is 16*16/(16*16*128). These are, respectively, 1 / 2^9 and 1 / 2^7. Then the chance that none of the 20 hit any of them in an 8x8 field is: (1 - 1 / 2^9)^20. If it is 16x16: (1 - 1 / 2^7)^20. Then as there are 4 8x8s, we must ^4 it: (1 - 1 / 2^9)^80. Putting into Wolfram|Alpha to calculate: chances are: (continued)

  • pixel, just checked your answer, i appreciate your taking the time to answer.

    I expect this is very irritating to hear, but you are wrong to think it is faster to grow when built on different chunk, and i don't have the time to explain it when you allready dismissed all the others who tryed.

  • @coucoulardtich I'm honestly not trying to be dismissive. edptry and I went through this last night and when we compared the numbers, these are the results he gave me. Had he not, the video would not be posted in its current form. The math itself, is not my strong suit and never will be, therefore I've asked him to augment his page with the info we came up with... perhaps then I'll be able to explain it a bit better. Sorry you felt I was being dismissive :)

  • Comment removed

  • Hmmm, I believe there is a 97.006% chance I understood this! Another great video and ty for all the great info especially since I am about to trek into the Nether to find some Nether wart. :)

  • @LordAlldara Not a problem :)

  • i don't understand the point of spreading between chunks... if you build 4 8x8 farms in different chunks, you have on average the same chance any individual block being picked as if it was just a 16x16 centred in 1 chunk.

    am i (or your explanation) missing something?

  • @redeyedmonstar 1, size...correct though, a 16x16 pad would yield the same as the 4 pads (actually slightly more)... however, if you compare apples to apples and compare the 4 across 4 different chunks, to 1 of the same base pad size, the 4 different chunks have nearly 4x the yield probability.

    I'm also setting this thing up to stack... trust me, in terms of practical farm sizes (a single 16x16 pad == a TON of soul sand walking) this is, imho, the best way to go

  • @MrPixelTech But if it's 20 blocks from anywhere in the chunk, then let's consider one of the 4 8x8 pads (all in different chunks). The chance (compared to a 16x16 pad in that chunk) is 1/4. As there are four of these pads it is equivalent to a 16x16 pad. If it were 20 blocks from that chunk where it would ONLY choose netherwart, there would be a difference - but as the probability is evenly spread across the whole chunk, having them in different chunks wouldn't affect the probability.

  • @iamstupidomc I hear you, so let me show you this: Probability of an 8x8 pad in 1 chunk performing a growth check (1 - (64 / 2^15)^20) or 3.83%, probability of an 8x8 pad in 4 chunks performing a growth check (1 - (64 / 2^15)^80) or 14.48%.

    Probability of a 16x16 pad in one chunk is higher (1 - (256 / 2^15)^20) or 14.5%, but the practical ability to farm it is reduced.

    Of course, the math is not mine, it's edptry's.

  • @MrPixelTech I'm not sure that what you have written is correct: the probability of a growth check (on one block) is 1 / 2^15. So the probability in one 'tick' that not one will update in a 8x8 field is (1 - 1 / 2^15)^64. Then to extend to the 4 fields the probability is (1 - 1 / 2^15)^256. If there is a 16x16 field it is (1 - 1 / 2^15)^256: the same.

    Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, what do you mean by the probability of a pad performing a growth check? Do you mean the chance (continued)

  • (continued) there will be 1 or more growth checks?

    I definitely agree, however, that 4 8x8 fields are much more practical to farm, etc.

  • @iamstupidomc that there will be at least 1 growth check from the 8x8 pad. And again, yes, if you take the randomly selected blocks (the ^20, and ^80) out of the equation, the math is completely the same. Add them back in though ;)

  • @MrPixelTech ergh, I just lost a comment I was about to post. I'm effectively going through the calcs again, given that I forgot the ^20 and ^80

  • so if i understand, basically your just increasing the surface area to increase yield?

    so surly just making a 32x32 pad anywhere regardless of chunk boundaries will have the same yield?

    and if walking on soulsand is your concern, making lots of 8x8 pads with walkways inbetween would be better as you could reach the centre squares without having to walk on the sand.

    I'm really not getting the role the chunk edges play if as it doesn't effect the chance of a block being picked at a given moment.

  • @MrPixelTech Why, don't you just make a light system to harvest the nether wart? The water seems kind of cheaty (I don't think noth wants water in the nether.... oh well) also a closed off room is a good idea in the nether anyway and placing 4 torches seems easier then a piston setup

  • @Trugbildjaeger not a bad idea , I'll take a look at doing a dark room setup, nice :D

  • how about bonemeal?

  • @MilanMoves it does not work.

  • @AronDragonBlood2772 well, potions are cheap anywayz xD

  • @MilanMoves netherwart doesn't respond at ALL to bone meal

  • Great video!

  • @Pluxar Thanks :)

  • im a new sub, and i got to say, that you have awsome videos :)

    i love your Sience FTW episodes

  • @Mr55Bro Thanks :)

  • max82power is totally right.

    sorry pixel, you might need to review your statistics on this episode.

  • @coucoulardtich read my response to him, I understand where you guys are coming from, but I think you guys are forgetting that 1 chunk == 20 checks in 1 instance of 1/20th of a second. 4 chunks == 80 checks in 1 insteance of 1/20th of a second.

  • @MrPixelTech But those 80 checks occur over 4 chunks and only a quarter of each chunk is utilized [ignoring height, which is a constant in both situations]. Thus it is 80 checks/4 = 20 checks - the same number of checks, on average.

    As a completely unrealated thing, can I say that your enchantment video was awesome - especially learning about all the maths behind the system (and learning that I only need 30 not 32 bookshelves, which was causing some logistical issues)

  • @MrPixelTech But to get 80 checks per tick the block would have to be in all four chunck simultaneously - which it isn't. Thus your netherwart-farm should have the same chance to grow regardless where you place it.

  • I ate a poptart.

  • "If I'd done them 16 by 16 [...]" @10:20... If you do them 16 by 16, I'm pretty sure the whole maths you did become useless ;)

  • @PurpleTheater lol, no, the math still works at that point :P

  • @MrPixelTech oh I'm not saying It doesn't work, just that it becomes useless to calculate if you do it on full chunks. By the way great vids, I'm just messing around ;)

  • I was one of your first subs! :D

  • @minniemoocher123 yes you were :)

  • @MrPixelTech :)

  • yay

  • Only counts for positive numbers though

  • 79|79 is the chunk meeting place as 0|0 is counted as a number too....

  • Pixel, no trolling, but I keep listening to this vid over and over, and either you missed to mention a fact, or your argument is void... The calculation @ 7:11 isn't run 4 times for each chunk, how do you come up with that? And what difference would it make? The growth-probability is evenly spread. As the pernsteiner link says: each tick, every netherwart block near the player has a 0.00407% chance to grow - no matter where you plant it.

  • @max82power it's run once per each chunk; so since he has a farm in 4 different chunks more of his netherwart will grow than if they were all in only 1 chunk

  • @max82power The calculation is run 1 time for each 16x16x128 area in a 15 chunk by 15 chunk square, centered on the player. Basically, 1 time per chunk. A part pernsteiner forgot and needs to include (we actually argued over aim about it):

    Probability netherwart will perform a growth check - 64 (8x8) in one chunk = (1 - (64 / 2^15) ^20). 64 (8x8) in 4 (time 4) chunks = (1 - (64 / 2^15) ^80). 64 in one chunk - 3.83%, 4 chunks with 64 = 14.48%.

  • Do Airblocks also get updated?

  • @TheSpictor If not, it would make farming Wart incredibly easy. I hope this is the case :)

  • @TheSpictor all blocks in a chunk can be selected by the random process, including air blocks

  • Comment removed