Peta and the creative truth! Animal Testing explained

[plustheMIC]

Why don't any of the monkeys have fresh water to drink in these clips? Oh wait that's because it is common practice to withhold water and food in order force the animals to comply with experiments. Lol, you guys are so "humane".

[Haarez1]

@plustheMIC There's a water throttle valve on the back of each cage, where monkeys can drink ad lib from. It is true that in some cases water restriction is necessary, but the state of the animal is carefully monitored to make sure he/she doesn't loose weight or become too dehydrated.

[Lisamarie1968]

Oh PLEASE! Do you really think being stuck in a cage waiting to be tortured is "natural behavior"?? Those monkies are neither happy/content nor "ok" with being imprisoned and put through abuse. They look as miserable to me as I would be if I were stuck in a cage not knowing what was going to happen to me next--why don't you leave the animals ALONE and go test on YOURSELVES, sick bastards!!

[kikakleedermbokajaja]

When did this happen? not the date when it was posted, but when this actually happened? If anyone knows plz tell me, because im writing a paper on this and it needs to be descriptive, thanks!

[speakingofresearch]

@kikakleedermbokajaja Off the top of my head this was a 2008 infiltration by Peta

[Riverdexter]

PETA, you are all HYPOCRITE ANIMAL KILLERS just like the rest of us. Shut it already.

[SuperKare123]

Companies That Still Test on Animals L'Oreal, Cover Girl, Dove, Pantene, Neutrogena , Garnier, Max Factor, Maybelline, Giorgio Armani, Lancaster, Lancome, Ralph Lauren Fragrances

[rainbowstargreengirl]

@SuperKare123 Those are products tha are pretty safe, its not like some makeup is going to hurt an animal.

[cathavenfostermom1]

I have seen a video of a person who used to work in a primate lab and

he confirmed that the animals were going insane from confinement.

He described how they were crying and going crazy, mutilating their

own bodies out of frustration, and it was obvious that they were lonely and sad.

[0mgItsFarr3nx3]

are you that stupid? obviosly your shoving tubes up in them, they're going to react. obviously and your not torturing them to death they're going to be calmer. retards.

[humanmedforhumans]

Please stop voting up comments/responses which support animal exp. and leaving out the replies which have been posted to them as is the case for the second and third comments from top of page.

[humanmedforhumans]

"If you make a drug that's effective against HIV, sometimes it works against SIV and sometimes it doesn't. So that basically devalues SIV as an animal model for doing experiments involved with developing drugs…The slight problem (with using monkeys as an animal model for AIDS in humans) is the monkeys don't go on to develop AIDS, they don't get sick." Dr Paul Bieniasz of the Rockefeller University in New York. Quoted in Scientists make HIV that can infect monkeys, Reuters, 3rd March.2009

[LondonProphet]

@humanmedforhumans You'll note that Bieniasz says "slight" problem. He is a researcher who himself works on SIV-models of AIDS because he believes it will help. To quote Nature: "To create a better model for vaccine tests, Bieniasz and colleagues are modifying HIV-1 to grow in monkeys. So far, they have created a version that will infect pigtail macaques, initially causing virus levels to reach up to one million copies per millilitre of blood — just like in the initial stages of human infection"

[humanmedforhumans]

@LondonProphet Clearly the sarcasm in the use of the word 'slight' is lost or more likely deliberately ignored by you. If the monkey does not get sick and the human dies clearly the animal model is not useful.

[XmenZednanreh]

hey look PETA's full of shit, big surprise there

[alchemix99]

I wanted everybody to know that this video poster has said he likes another users anti-vegan videos (ThatGuyFromAustria). This same person has 'liked' animal torture videos in his list.

[sciencenotrats]

Humans do not benefit from animal exp. anyway, in fact it is the main cause of human illness, anything will pass this 'test'; strychnine, cyanide, arsenic, botulin, asbestos, HIV infected blood, DDT, benzene, cigarettes...The perfect device to provide legal protection to the makers of artificial substances, pollutants, carcinogens etc. As far as welfare of animals is there a nice way to put poison into an animals stomach or harmful substance into its eye etc etc etc

[NebulousGummyBear]

Animals are just like humans. People die because of cancer and other health problems. But guess what? Its the circle of fucking life. Be happy they are out of their misery and are in a better place. Humans only think they have the right to animal test but no they absolutely do not. No human is worth more than any animal. God didn't put us on Earth to harm nature.

[redrosary]

@NebulousGummyBear

And what if someone believes in god no more they do in your mentally ill fantasy that a cockroach's life is equal to a human being's?

[Fleefles]

@redrosary

Well, science cannot prove a human is more important than a cockroach, so I don't see how you can call them mentally ill for that. Questions of human/animal worth are philosophical, not scientific.

[NebulousGummyBear]

@speakingofresearch This is only the primates. Your not showing the poor cats,kittens,puppies,dogs,rabb­its,goats,mice,hamsters,rats, and hundreds of other species that have and are still suffering and dead in horrible conditions. Humans like you and the other monsters who defend this don't care about anybody else but their own kind. One cat got electrodes implanted into his brain. Other animals get injections that make them die slowly and painfully. After most testings, animals are killed.

[speakingofresearch]

@NebulousGummyBear This video shows some of mistruths spread by PETA - it was not meant to be a video showing all conditions of all animals otherwise it'd be hours long. Animal welfare standards in labs is some of the highest in the world (in the US) and adheres to the principles of reduction, refinement and replacement.

[ArielSl20]

What bull

[noratmedicine]

"In 1922, outraged scientists spoke out against the animal experiments that many were claiming had proven the existence of insulin:

"The production of insulin originated in a wrongly conceived, wrongly conducted, and wrongly interpreted series of [animal] experiments."Roberts, F.in BMJ1922, p1194

They pointed out that human autopsy had in fact shown the pancreas to be the vital organ in diabetes, and that in vitro research had isolated insulin - not animal experiments." disease=profit

[speakingofresearch]

@noratmedicine

[PamelaRVT]

@speakingofresearch

Sooooo, don't get sick! If humans would stop getting sick and demanding doctors to cure them, I think all our problems would be solved. At least on this subject.

[noratmedicine]

Nobel Prize winner (penicillin) Sir Ernst Boris Chain, under oath at Thalodime hearing said, “No animal experiment with a medicament, even if it is carried out on several animal species including primates under all conceivable conditions, can give any guarantee that the medicament tested in this way will behave in the same way in humans; because in many respects the human is not the same as the animal”. Tony Page, Vivisection Unveiled, Jon Carpenter Publishing, 1997, p. 103.

[ConscienCEous]

@noratmedicine Good scientists would agree that despite similarities, species differences are not negligible. That is why the next step is controlled trials in humans. This doesn't make preliminary tests in animals worthless. Good scientists also agree that well-designed, thoughtful animal research provides invaluable insights.

[sciencenotrats]

@ConscienCEous If something is wrong 92% of the time it is not worthless (which could be described as neutral), it is counterproductive. Something which is wrong 50% of the time would be worthless. Animal 'tests' are much worse than that. "90% of our work is done for legal and not for scientific reasons" and "The best guess for the correlation of adverse reactions between human and animal toxicity data is somewhere between 5% and 25%" Dr Ralph Haywood, frmr scientific director of HLS dlrm . org

[sciencenotrats]

@ConscienCEous Please tell me what you believe these invaluable insights are. After over 100 years and well over 2 billion animals you must be able to find some.

[redrosary]

@sciencenotrats

How about penicillin, artificial joints and organ transplants, to scratch the surface of a very large iceberg. Moron.

[sciencenotrats]

@ConscienCEous A good scientist would use human cell cultures then computer model then micro dose. This avoids the misleading animal phase which is a legal not a scientific device

[noratmedicine]

Florey on penicillin

"Mice were used in the initial toxicity tests [by Florey and Chain] because of their small size, but what a lucky chance it was, for in this respect man is like the mouse and not the guinea-pig. If we had used guinea-pigs exclusively we should have said that penicillin was toxic, and we probably should not have proceeded to

try and overcome the difficulties of producing the substance for trial in man." FloreyH The Advance of Chemotherapy by Animal Experiment 1953, 41:12

[noratmedicine]

the 3 nobel prize winners for disc. of penicillin all denounca animal exp. Sir Alexander Flemming "How fortunate we didn’t have these animal tests in the 1940’s, for penicillin would probably never been granted a license, and possibly the whole field of antibiotics might never have been realized." ref: Parke, DV: Clinical Pharkacokinetics in Drug Safety Evaluation, ATLA 1994, 22:207-209 Same for all advances claimed from animal experiments see curedisease . net mrmcmed . org dlrm . org

[TheVeganHere]

This is your argument to justify animal testing? Pathetic!!!

[RestrictedAccess]

Well, we already know PETA likes to lie - so another lie is hardly surprising.

[johnmoreland]

No signs of distress, hmmm. But, they are still in a cage ready to be tortured.

[cyncycy]

if the monkeys were or not stressed because of strangers around doesnt justify they are in those cages waiting to be taken for testing on them . dont u think? furthermore there are alternatives for testing. we dont need to take those indefense animals. I would like to encourage you and serch about brands that test on animals...

[LondonProphet]

Read up on Speaking of Research's website (the alternatives section) on the flaws in believing we can completely replace animal research because we currently cannot

[jigsawpandas]

That's a pretty neat site, I wasn't aware.... :) Animal Research is invaluable, if done right! Though, what we define as right varies from person to person, so..... Eh.

[humanmedforhumans]

@LondonProphet Speaking of Research is a pro animal experimentation group which has no other purpose, may aswell read neo nazi site re. immigration for similar balance. Some doctors speak against thier own best interests (career/$ etc) because they care about real science and human health. curedisease. net mrmcmed .org vivisectionresearch. ca etc

[redrosary]

@humanmedforhumans

And PETA is an Animal Rights terrorist group which has noi other purpose for existance than the spread of misinformative vegan propaganda for the further of their own violent and hypocritical activist ends. In fact, the website you cite is a well-known front for PETA to spread blatant medical misinformation, much like their PCRM. Your logic falls flat on it's face.

[raztis1]

no we dont have "alternatives" alternatives are used when ever possible, but sometimes it just has to bested on live animals, and these tests have brought about life changing medicines, so get over it... i would kill a thousand dogs to save one aids ridden crack head, because a human life is priceless

[jigsawpandas]

Testing on animals isn't great. It's pretty bad. But, I still think... We could do worse. And not every facility treats the animals like they're nothing. Some people do care, and are there BECAUSE they care. We can learn from animal testing, IF we do it right, and do it ethically.

[TheUTubeRebel]

@jigsawpandas

It SAVED the lives of MILLIONS, how is it not great? You would rather have them dead, I presume. You fucking sadistic maniac.

[jigsawpandas]

You're the fucking maniac, heheee, I JUST said that WHILE I PREFERRED OTHER METHODS, we could do worse. Let me repeat it so you can understand exactly what I meant. In slow mo just for you, sweetie: Testing on animals is not GREAT but it is not BAD/EVIL/CRUEL either, because it is usually done RIGHT. Need me to repeat? Next time you feel like using big scary words and shouting your rude and ignorant opinion out, best maybe try and read and understand the original comment, hmm?

[Contradiction11]

Animal testing, puppy mills, factory farming, and chinese fur farms are the most atrocious things done on the earth....I challenge any product-using, dog-buying, meat-eating, fur-wearer to watch even one minute of anything you find in a google search of these items. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. The world doesn't disappear when you close your eyes.

[raztis1]

first off, if u think animal testing is worse than dubai, genocide, the aids and starvation in africa, then your a fucking retard and should fucking die.. their animals, and ive seen these "videos" u talk about, and it does nothing to me, because im smart enough to realize eating and killing animals is a natural thing, and if testing on an animal will cure aids or cancer, then line those soulless bitches up.

[bridgettedunn]

Listen, plain and simple, if the testing isn't so bad, why don't you pay humans to do the testing. Or get some guys who are on death row, or have life in prison for a violent murder. Animals are innocent victims here. A little testing would be one thing, but testing has gone overboard. Just like a little meat is ok, but factory farms are out of control.

[theZoshi]

Ah, but there is human testing. And it is paid. It's called Phase I testing, and it involves giving people doses of drugs in order to find out the side-effects. It can be torturous and can even cause people to be hospitalized.

[Contradiction11]

Well said. Can you do me a favor and help spread the animal rights message locally? I am starting smart mob protests at local shopping areas. You should do the same.

[jigsawpandas]

@bridgettedunn They do pay people to do testing.... The monkeys looked just fine with the second view... It's possible they were provoked the first time, isn't it? (Just my opinion)

[TheUTubeRebel]

@bridgettedunn

No animal is more valuable than a human, no matter if the said human is on death row. Shoot yourself now, if you hate humanity so much you fucking tree-hugger.

[bridgettedunn]

yeah, an animal in a tiny cage, that looks wonderful. Morons. Do they show distress after they get infected with diseases or have parts of their bodies amputated and who knows what other tortures?

[ChinaStar95]

I do not support animal testing.

[Contradiction11]

How about supporting animal rights instead? Organize a local group to flash mob a pet store, pharmaceutical company, or meat-selling establishment!

[ChinaStar95]

I do support animal rights, however, I wil not participate in your "groups". Firstly, I am doing my part of support animal rights, such as being a vegetarian and also not buying fur or leather. Thank you. I do not mean to be rude, I'm just simply trying to refuse gently.

[rixflix1122]

Are you for real.....Denial is not just a river run dry.....

[grnpeace07]

ya right...they really like being in those cages and really love being tested on....PETA SUPPORTER......

[ironman711]

Are you insulting someone by calling them a PETA supporter or are you really brainwashed by PETA?

[megswitz]

so just because monkeys dont freak out 24/7 means its ok to test on them? get real.

[Dezzleray]

I still agree with PETA , That's disgusting that people would torture animals for are benefit that's sick.

[ShroedingerWatcher]

True PETA is questionable but thats only because that is intentional and they don't actually oppose animal research for its trully fraudulent ways because they avoid the medical and scientific arguments. Its all about morals with them and others. And that is thanks to infiltrators pretending to be for animal rights or anti vivisection yet at the same time defend it just like Peter Singer did, just like Michael Balls did, just like John McArdle, just like the rest of them.

[likral]

or maybe you just sedated them.

[LondonProphet]

Ever watched monkeys in a large reserve - they spend most of their time sitting around... Most of the time monkeys in labs do the same thing.

[likral]

Why the hell should I believe this? I think that people want to believe this just so they don't feel bad for not protesting against it, so they don't feel bad when they ignore the cruelty going on at any research facility. We aren't in the stone ages! We have developed computers, one would think that since we call ourselves the smartest things on the planet we could find an alternative to animal testing, but instead we want to create WMDs. Yeah, we sure are smart.

[theloniusacrow]

Um, wow. First of all, any organization can take information and twist it. What makes PETA god? They've been controversial enough, and they've proven themselves hypocritical numerous times. And computers aren't these OH-AMAZING machines. The computer is only as smart as it's creator. It can calculate stuff, but it needs the formula first.

[speakingofresearch]

The world's most powerful supercomputer can only model a portion of a rat's brain at a fraction of real speed - no computer on earth is even approaching the complexity necessary to model even one organ in the human body in all totality.

[jedihunter176]

@speakingofresearch Where does it say that?

[speakingofresearch]

@jedihunter176 My error - it was a mouse's brain (slightly simpler neuron structure)

see: news [dot] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk/1/hi/technology/6600965 [dot] stm

[jedihunter176]

@speakingofresearch thanks

[jedihunter176]

@speakingofresearch Your source, please?

[noratmedicine]

@speakingofresearch And the rat brain is not the same as the human brain, nor are any 2 different species similar enough to be of any use for the translation of data. it is a legal and not a scientific device.

[speakingofresearch]

@noratmedicine - and yet the history of medicine contradicts you - without animal research there would be no HPV vaccine, no antiretrovirals, no blood transfusions, no penicillin (it would be sitting on a shelf discovered but of little use), no MRI scans, no herceptin, no tamoxifen, no insulin ... etc

[noratmedicine]

@speakingofresearch Nonsense. Your claims rely entirely on the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc (after that therefore because of that) and show no causal relation between animal experiments and human health advance. I have started with ourt most important drug penicillin 10 mins ago. All 3 nobel prize winners for Penicillin denounce animal exp. Same applies to all items listed here. See curedisease . net mrmcmed . org Real science is reliable, repeatable, transferable, projectable. AE is not

[speakingofresearch]

@noratmedicine You do know how to misinterpret comments. Chain wasn't saying it doesn't work - only that it's not perfect. The guinea-pig toxicity is plain wrong - it refers to research where GPs were overdosed. Chain and Florey continued to use animal experiements because they believed it useful. The fact is that animal research DID play a crucial role in the discovery of penicillin

[sciencenotrats]

@speakingofresearch Sir Alexander Flemming "How fortunate we didn’t have these animal tests in the 1940’s, for penicillin would probably never been granted a license, and possibly the whole field of antibiotics might never have been realized." Prey tell how else can thsi be interpreted? And Chains comment was made under oath. Clearly you will stick to your agenda despite the evidence. please provide evidence for your claim re. animal exp and penicillin

[DisturbedkKittyKat]

i agree with you. You know penicilin? Well it killed 500 lab rats and saved millions of people, goes to show us that rats and other animals are not humans and don't have the same systems

[LondonProphet]

What was the test? The 8 mouse safety protection test that more or less discovered the wider uses of penicillin killed 4 mice (the control group), that's how we knew penicillin worked.

[DisturbedkKittyKat]

is a mouse the size of a human?

[Skipissatan]

No but it is a mammal and has 98%+ genes in common and consequently functions in a very similar manner...thats why we test on mice more often that trees or rocks...

[DisturbedkKittyKat]

are you speakingofresearch's minion?

[Skipissatan]

No, I happen to have evaluated the evidence and reached a conclusion- unlike the peta bunch-the majority of whom have skipped the evidence and jumped to one...are you megswitz's minion?

[DisturbedkKittyKat]

nope; and peta doesn't skip evidence. Im just wondering, but would you like to live in a steel crate your whole life, have weird looking people stick very painful tubes down your nose or in your veins? I don't think you would like that...

[Skipissatan]

They do skip evidence. One point they often make is that cell culture, tissue culture or computer simulation could be in place of animal testing. These methods are often inadequate as you cannot determine some phenotypic evidence at whole organism level. For example you often can't determine blindness from cells. Despite this researchers will use these methods as often as possible as they're cheaper and easier-no one does tests that could be done on something else effectively...

[Skipissatan]

But i wouldn't like it alot. Would you like to die a slow and painful death from a disease that could have been treated if only the tests were done on animals. I hope you've never taken any medicines, or been vaccinated and that you don't eat meat or wear leather because that would make you a massive hypocrite.

[DisturbedkKittyKat]

ok.

[Skipissatan]

...on both sides of the debate. I have a vegan zoologist friend. She worked in an animal testing lab and now supports animal research. Equally i've worked on a joint project with the vetinary school which involved animal research(animals see the benefits of research 2). Why is it that vets and zoologists-those who know most about animals are in favour of research? My desire to see research done is informed by working with dementia sufferers and seeing the tortuous effects of their diseases.

[humanmedforhumans]

@Skipissatan Because the ones you work with derive income, titles, qualifications etc from animal experiments or have done them and would feel a great deal of guilt to know that they were of no value or counterproductive.

According to the US FDA 92% of new drugs fail in clinical trials, after they have passed all the safety tests in animals. US FDA (2004) "Innovation or Stagnation, Challenge and Opportunity on the Critical Path to new Medical Products"...and even worse for med. research

[ironman711]

Yeah, if by caring you mean completely mislead people and pretty much upset/torture animals before taping....

[Poseidon500]

I do not think the purpratator dileberately KNEW that he was provoking those monkeys because the folks at PETA do not understand animal behavior. They falsely apply human attributes to these animals due to their lack of education and false assumptons.

A cat purrs when it is feeling content. Did you know that a cat will also purr when in extreem pain? The folks at PETA would pick up a suffering cat, here it purring and assume that the cat is greatfull, when in fact the cat is in agony.

[speakingofresearch]

A good point

[Poseidon500]

Thank you. The delusion of PETA is that they assume that animals thnk and behave like humans when in fact, each type of animal has it's own behaviorial characteristics, and they do not think like us at all.

Some say that dairy is RAPE. LOL. Well to the average human female, if that same thing was being done to them against their will, it would be a form of that. THey would be disturbed in the way that they describe.

But trust me, a dairy cow really does not care or think that way.

[Fleefles]

If dairy is rape, then I guess PETA is going to have to arrest like 99% of the male animals in nature for violating the rights of female animals by "raping" them without their consent. If the female animal doesn't want to mate, oftentimes she has to physically fight off the male. Why won't PETA stand up for their rights? :(

[Poseidon500]

Because..PETA are delusional.

[theloniusacrow]

That's really interesting, do you have any sources or know of any place online that talks about that? It'd be very helpful for when I debate people. Thanks for sharing, though.

[Skipissatan]

Have you seen cows that haven't been milked-they're well unhappy!

[Poseidon500]

I hear you man!

[VeganForVendetta]

There was no noticeable difference in distance between one shot and the other. So, the claim that in the second shot the cameraman is "keeping a distance" is absurd. As is the claim that he was "making eye contact" in the first shot (how one makes eye contact with eight monkeys at once, with some of the monkeys' backs turned, and with a camera in front of your face is beyond me). Jane Goodall observed the same footage from inside ONPRC and stated, aptly, that it amounted to cruelty. OHSU lies.

[speakingofresearch]

Cameras have a zoom function! Secondly I believe the camera was left in the room for a short period to allow the animals to see it wasn't a threat, finally the camera man in the second part ensures that he is not making eye contact with the animals.

Jane Goodall's comments were not verified or corroborated by the USDA.

[VeganForVendetta]

I'm starting to really wonder if you have any clue what you're talking about. USDA inspector Isis Johnson-Brown joined Matt Rossell at the press conference in 2000 to support his whistleblowing and explain why the USDA system is so inadequate at protecting animals. Google "Isis Johnson-Brown" to read her comments. They're very powerful. Also, OHSU asked Carol Shively to review their lab practices and she wrote a report condemning much of OHSU's practices as being unnecessarily cruel.

[VeganForVendetta]

Also - see my video response regarding SNBL. The USDA cleared the SNBL of any wrongdoing despite boiling a monkey alive in a cage washer. This is your vigilant watchdog government agency at work. The USDA is simply not a reasonable standard of regulation to the layperson - it has been tailored to conform to the labs' interests. Also, regarding OHSU, remember that Matt's public exposure of electroejaculation and Daniel Casey even led to stubborn reforms and personnel changes at OHSU.

[VeganForVendetta]

The vivisectors themselves also acknowledge this type of housing to be harmful to animals, as it leads to severe psychological trauma and self-mutilation:

"In terms of behavioral repertoires, however, single cage housing greatly limits the expression of species-typical behaviors, especially those related to complex, physical interaction. ...[M]onkeys kept in single cages sometimes exhibit bizarre, stereotypic, and self-directed patterns of behavior"

Novak M, Suomi S. ILAR Journal 1989;31(3).

[speakingofresearch]

A few do - most don't. However there has been a gradual movement towards larger social caging. I believe this should be used wherever possible however at certain times you cannot have monkeys housed together (e.g. infectious disease studies, or where a monkey has shown violent behaviour).

[DianeDi]

Agreed 100% with your comment... thank you for your statement... nothing is closer to the truth!!!!!

[JUMPTHEGUNZZX]

We all know what torture animals are put through.The very fact they are in a lab enviroment is downright cruelty before they even start. You can be sure the people here trying to play it down are involved in animal cruelty themselves.

[speakingofresearch]

I've never researched on an animal, nor am I part of the pharmaceutical industry. Conditions in labs are fairly decent, and ever improving. The cages you see above are steadily going out of fashion in favour of multi-housing cages for pairs of monkeys to live together.

[JUMPTHEGUNZZX]

Nice to hear but no animal should be in such a place, full stop.

[DeetroitPistons]

People need to seriously stop associating PETA with animal cruelty/testing. Just because the people of PETA have taken it too far, doesn't mean the animals need our help. There is no sense in lying about what goes on in research laboratories. The films and pictures ARE NOT fake. Who cares that these monkeys where running around, then not? They are still in cages to be tested on. Animal welfare is NOT the number one priority.

[brittyn]

wow. what a great life for those monkeys, who cares if they show stress or not in your version.. it's still a crap way to live.

[JUMPTHEGUNZZX]

The very fact that these monkeys are in a CAGE, being denied their natural instincts , needs and then being subjected to cruel tests , is horrific animal cruelty.

[DeetroitPistons]

i agree. =) Bravo

[nakazatoGTR]

your creative thinking makes you believe the testing includes slamming to walls etc.

but how do you introduce drugs?

by mixing with food(very humane)

by mixing with water(just as humane)

peta wants you to believe, by using multiple sites that (IP 72.5.147) testing includes breaking bones, operation without aneshtesia, though without proof. this video proves that PeTA would lie.

respect the right of free speech.

[Fleefles]

Do you feel as strongly about the billions of insects and rodents that are poisoned, trapped & killed intentionally to grow & protect your food?

Why is it perfectly okay to kill countless small critters because the majority of vegans are too cheap to buy strictly organic or too lazy to grow their own food, but they can't be tested on to develop life-saving medicine?

[SOAPYSPONGEZ]

Don't send crappy replies to me. Vegans are doing absolutely the very best they can to avoid animal cruelty. What are you doing? Not much it appears if your supporting torturing animals in labs.

[Fleefles]

You're the ones saying killing animals is murder, yet the majority are okay with killing them when the alternative is too inconvenient for you.

I've never seen any big vegan protests/boycotts against farms that use pesticides, even though it kills billions of animals.

[Skipissatan]

Would you rather millions of humans died as a result of the medical advances that wouldn't have been made?

[megswitz]

who gave anyone the right to choose who lives or dies. in the end, we all die, its part of life. id rather die when god intended than to have 100 animals die for me to live a few extra years

[LondonProphet]

When a 100 animals contribute to thousands of humans living an extra few years I think your democratic voice will be drowned out by those who would support the research.

[Skipissatan]

well said

[Skipissatan]

Surely if God intended you to die at a certain point and god is omnipotent then you would.(assuming you are a muslim jew or christian) Genesis 1:26 says"God said, "Let us make man in our image, and let them rule

over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock... over all the creatures that move along the ground." And what about the atheists that don't want to abide by a flawed deistic morality? So you don't the 100 flies are worth the life of a man?

[Skipissatan]

are you saying that all cancer sufferers deserve it? what about a child with leukemia? how about a person with huntingtons- these are diseases that they did nothing to cause? I think you might feel differently if you suffered from something like that. Do you eat meat or wear leather? Because i guarantee you those animals are treated alot worse than those tested on.

[Skipissatan]

Don't use ANY medicine either. Did you pull that figure out of thin air? What about cervical cancers of which 70% are caused by human papiloma virus, or bowel and gastric cancers caused by Heliobacter Pylori. Leukemias and lymphomas or kaposi's sarcoma which is caused by HIV. Smoking, pollution, diet etc. all play large roles but it's probably more like 20% and blaming people for their cancers is harsh. The main cause is getting old-more cell replication-more mistakes-more cancer.

[scourfish]

>>im saying 99.9% of cancers come from

>>humans and their pollution, home chemicals

Before you start commenting on research with made up numbers, you need to know the steps of the scientific method. Without consulting google or wikipedia or the likes, you don't know or understand such, and until you do, I'd recommend you stop making such statements, because it makes you look incredibly uneducated and naive.

[bechtelv]

As a former animal care technician at this facility, I am pleased that someone FINALLY is telling the truth. Many of the animals on the PETA video are animals I know well, and I was distressed to see them behaving in a manner that was not typical. It was painfully obvious that they were being provoked or harrassed. During my training I was taught how to best interact with the animals to keep stress levels low. It is important for the animals health and the validity of the studies. Thank you!

[Duvmasta]

I hate listening to Newkirk's voice...she sounds like the devil!

[Dmac11a666]

LMAO If peta is against animal testing then why is the leader on drugs that were made under animal testing.....Also why does peta kill 2/3 of the animal it saves.....Oh i get it now its ok as long as they are doing it and protesting against it........

[mikechecka1212]

Here's another fact for you. Food is intentionally withheld from monkeys before being placed in the confinement chair, where they are conditioned to go to with the promise of a snack. Once there, one arm is left unrestrained long enough for them to feed themselves a little treat like a piece of banana or apple. This way they won't put up such a fuss at being shackled, which would make it that much more difficult for the technician. Could food have been an influence here? I think so...

[LondonProphet]

I have no doubt that treats are used to train the monkeys to use the cages (in fact I've seen them do it). However food is carefully regulated, and only withheld if the experiment needs it (you'll note that when people undergo surgery they are also deprived of food for 24 hours - think perhaps PeTA are giving you the wrong reasoning?)

[mikechecka1212]

People undergoing surgery are "advised" not to eat for a certain amount of time due to the fact that anesthetics cause nausea. Food to monkeys is withheld for the reasons I've stated AND perhaps for the same reason PAINKILLERS are withheld, so as to not interact/interfere with the effects of whatever (potentially toxic/caustic) substance is being "tested".

[LondonProphet]

So please take your proof of this to the USDA who will revoke the license of any institution found to be withholding pain killers for trivial reasons. Only 7% of research involves any pain that is not alleviated by anaesthesia, and that is in circumstances where the painkillers would interfere with the experiment.

People are *told* not to eat before certain procedures, hence the latin term "Nil Per Os", which means Nil By Mouth, and means nurses will refuse food for the individual.

[mikechecka1212]

I regret to say that's been done repeatedly, and continues to be done. At a university as prestigious as Columbia University, USDA has concluded that Columbia failed to provide even BASIC post-surgical care, adequate veterinary care, and euthanasia to animals used in experiments. And that's just US as you pointed out, LondonProphet. SHAC exists for a reason and has been established in UK. Don't talk to me about nurses. "Nil Per Os" has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

[LondonProphet]

Continues to be done where - once again, contact the USDA if you have evidence (but the website says it's true - it MUST be true.... *sigh*). Have you got the USDA report on the 2003 incident?

SHAC exist because some people are idiots. Two HLS employers did a cruel thing, and were rightly punished. Perhaps you should be firebombing doctor's offices after Harold Shipman let down the medical community?

[mikechecka1212]

SHAC exist because some people are idiots? SHAC exist because cruelty was exposed. 2people did a cruel thing? You must live in a bubble. Unlike you, I've never witnessed vivisection firsthand. Had I done so, I would have gone the release route and not firebombing, sorry. I see your very defensive over the subject. It's obvious you're in the industry. You have a bias toward it. No matter how you justify it, it is cruelty personified. We've got the technology now to test more ACCURATELY! I'm done.

[LondonProphet]

I'm not a scientist. I have taken many opportunities to look round labs, whenever the opportunities arise. You'll find most labs let people in, and yes I have an interest in the subject.

Alas we have no current ways to replace animal research lock, stock and barrel. We have an assortment of methods like in vitro, computer modelling and micro-dosing which are used in conjunction with the animal research (and must be used wherever possible instead of the animal-methods) to gain an overall picture

[nervousneuron]

Well said by LondonProphet, who has gone into labs for him(her?)self to look, instead of relying on propaganda from animal rights groups.

I work with rats in a psychology lab, where many tests rely on animals responding to a reward. Yes, food is witheld before training BUT not all of it. Usually, it is 80% (approx) of what they would eat ad lib. The remaining 20% is in the form of the reward (we use froot loops, rats love them). Doing this ensures they will go for the reward {cont}

[nervousneuron]

which makes it a pleasant experience for everybody. This is something that should be implemented in stressful situations an animal might experience, be it simple handling to receiving injections. The animal will associate the procedure with a reward making it less stressful and improving overall welfare. Especially important for prey animals such as rats.

It's also why companion animals like us so much.... we feed them and they know it.

[studywar]

Only a twisted individual can defend a monkey being kept in an extremely tiny cage all their life.

[LondonProphet]

Most of the Oregon monkeys spend most of their time in huge outdoor cages (I have been there - there are huge pens for monkeys to jump around and climb in).

[LondonProphet]

I hate how Peta purposely lie

[sflaugher]

Absolutely true!

I wish people would see through the PETA hype.