Imam Abu Eesa - Davos Debates 2009

[billbocate]

smile! the only non smiling, guees why??....

[supermankhan]

Wow before judging him by his name and how he looks, listen to what he has to say. People are arguing (mostly atheists)... and expect to find peace in the world when they instigate most of the arguments on this video.

[MrGrandDragon]

People goggle Max keiser.

What this Imam is saying is very true and humbling. Yes indeed the greed of people has destroyed us

[nimasha83]

ALLAH HUAKBAR

[mpleportals]

"Considering it was written by characters that probably did not exist."

How can that happen?

[PastorGeezuss]

"Considering it was written by characters that probably did not exist."

Just like Sherlock Holmes dear watson...

[MrGrandDragon]

@PastorGeezuss

How can the author of a book be none-existent when the book its self attests to the existence of the author.

Now the matter of whether you accept the authors identity is a different issue altogether.

We know of Muhammed's (Pbuh) existence for thousands of historical documentations testify to his presence in Arabia. Without whom the Kaba, Madina, Macca and Islam its self would never have surfaced so rapidly from the desserts.

[PastorGeezuss]

"I think you are full of complexes"

Lets see who has the complexes:

"I decide your foot size is 45 (EU)."

"(my friends are very colourful. yellow to black)"

"Prove me that I exist."

"I don't claim that the Bible is valid."

"The bible is anyway as valid (if not more than) as Homer."

[mpleportals]

I tried to simplify things for you (by parallelism) and you use my sentences to proove what?

[PastorGeezuss]

Just explain what you mean by this:

"I don't claim that the Bible is valid."

"The bible is anyway as valid (if not more than) as Homer."

And:

"I didn't say that all muslim people hate kufars.."

"Koran is used to make muslim people hate the kufars and believe in jihad."

Why can't you agree with your own comments?

[mpleportals]

1) I don't claim that the Bible is (completely) valid.

It is useful to researchers due to its historical, cultural etc. inferences (this is why I paparelized it with Homer, an ancient Greek poet)

2) "Koran is used to make muslim people hate the kufars and believe in jihad."

I meant that the Bible may have been used but the Koran has also been used

Easier now?

[PastorGeezuss]

"It is useful to researchers due to its historical, cultural etc. inferences"

The bible has no historical value to it. Considering it was written by characters that probably did not exist.

"Bible may have been used but the Koran has"

You are saying the Bible "may" but the Koran "has". Big difference. Just because I'm Navajo it does not mean I do not comprehend the English language.

[mpleportals]

English is not my native language. So don't stick into details

[mpleportals]

There are more Palestinians in Jordan than in Israel. Why don't you also claim some land from you brothers in Jordan?

[PastorGeezuss]

"Why don't you also claim some land from you brothers in Jordan?"

Because I'm not Palestinian nor Arab.

Anyways...

There are more Jews in America than in Israel, why don't you claim land from your brothers in America?

[mpleportals]

Because I am not a Jew

[PastorGeezuss]

"Because I am not a Jew"

Then why are you generalizing about me?

Is it because your White and I'm Native American Navajo.

Only you have rights to decide for others huh...

[mpleportals]

How do you know that I am white? Congratulations for your background. No need to hate me. Me ancestors didn't have the chance to come and visit you

[PastorGeezuss]

Why do you think I hate you?

Another decision you've decided to make for me, yet I can't decide your White.

Why do you think only you have the right to decide what I think? Isn't that what caused the Holocaust in the first place.

Zionist Evangelicals deciding to usher in the Reign of the Prince of Peace by killing his "Chosen Ones."

[mpleportals]

Are you an idiot or what? I am not a jew.

You are ridiculous. I don't care about the color of skin of others (my friends are very colourful. yellow to black)! But you do.

[PastorGeezuss]

Why do you have to list your friends by the color of their skin?

Why do you keep insisting your not Jewish. Are you that ashamed of being called Jewish? Why so much anti-Semitism from you when all I did was call you a Zionist Evangelical.

Oh I know what the problem is.

Only you can call me anything you please, I need your permission to call you what I think.

[mpleportals]

Well you have the right to say whatever you want and I have the right to refute it. Are you against the freedom of speech? Why should I accept that I am jews because you believe it?

I am not the one who sets the rule here. So no you don't need any permission.

[PastorGeezuss]

"Why should I accept that I am jews because you believe it?"

Then why should I be forced to accept Palestine is Jewish land because you believe it?

[mpleportals]

I didn't force you to do anything. I just stated my oppinion.

I think you are full of complexes

You can now do your homework (you did not refer at all to the sources) and we can discuss again once your homework is done

[mpleportals]

You can decide the colour of my skin without being able to see me but this is called plain stupidily.

I decide your foot size is 45 (EU).

[PastorGeezuss]

Why can't I decide the color of your skin if you can decide my thoughts, my race, my religion.

Why are you only giving yourself that right?

[mpleportals]

The first widespread use of "Palestinian" as an endonym to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the local Arabic-speaking population of Palestine began prior to the outbreak of World War I,[10] and the first demand for national independence was issued by the Syrian-Palestinian Congress on 21 September 1921

[PastorGeezuss]

Yeah so the use of the word "Indian" to describe Native Americans came into effect after Columbus landed in the New World.

That however does not mean no Native people existed in the New World.

According to your logic, no Navajo were in America because they were called Indians.

[mpleportals]

I don't know what you are talking about. The bible is anyway as valid (if not more than) as Homer. Some people used Homer to discover Troy.

[PastorGeezuss]

Why is the Bible valid? Because the Bible said so?

Prove to me the Bible is valid...

[mpleportals]

I don't claim that the Bible is valid. But I don't also claim that it is completely invalid. Homer has a lot of stories but it contains some important truth. Same for bible

Prove me that I exist.

[PastorGeezuss]

"Prove me that I exist."

Why do you need validity to your existence from someone else.

Aren't you sure you exist?

Don't you have any mirrors around the house?

If I say you don't exist, will you kill yourself to prove you did?

[mpleportals]

You are a big racist finally. Why do you care about my skin colour?

My question was as silly as yours. You asked me to proove that a religious text is valid.

[PastorGeezuss]

How am I racist when it was you who has made blanket statements regarding others:

"muslim people hate the kufars and believe in jihad."

"Why don't you also claim some land from you brothers in Jordan?"

You made the hateful and racist comments first. But as usual in your delussional Zionist Evangelical state you can only cry victim.

Its never your fault... Is it...

[mpleportals]

-I didn't say that all muslim people hate kufars..

-The so called Palestine was broader than todays Israel

[PastorGeezuss]

"I didn't say that all muslim people hate kufars.."

Yes you did. These are your words exactly as you stated them:

"Koran is used to make muslim people hate the kufars and believe in jihad."

You have lost crediability if you deny what you say. This makes you a blatant liar.

Am I not to accept anything you say because you will deny it?

[mpleportals]

"Koran is USED to make muslim people hate the kufars and believe in jihad."

What does this sentence mean? ?

That is used by SOME. I didn't claim that it is used by everybody nor that everybody believe those ones who use it

[PastorGeezuss]

"Koran is USED to make muslim people hate the kufars and believe in jihad."

What does the word "people" mean?

If I were to say that the Bible is used to make Christian "people" hateful. Would I be saying 10% of the Christians or 40% or just one or two?

People means "all" it does not mean "some."

If you want to say that the Koran is used by some people to make some Muslims hateful you would have to say exactly that.

[mpleportals]

Does the fact that is used by some refutes my argument? I don't think so.

Anyway you were the one to generalize and state that the bible has been used for bad purposes and this is why you don't believe in it. What does the fact that it has been used says about the content of the book? Nothing...

[PastorGeezuss]

What arguement? You have no arguement.

I don't believe in the Bible because it is false. The bible being used for war, genocide is not the reason I don't believe in what it says. I don't believe in the Bible because it fails to prove the existence of God.

[mpleportals]

You can not know that the Bible is false. The Koran has been used for the same purposes.

Can and holy book prove the existence of God? No

[PastorGeezuss]

"The Koran has been used for the same purposes."

The Koran was not used to create a Homeland for Turks in Germany. However the Bible was used as Historical evidence to create a homeland for Jews in Palestine.

"Can and holy book prove the existence of God? No"

It all depends on whom one believes God is.

Can the NT prove Jesus was God? No absolutely not.

Can the Koran say God is unseen, yep it sure can because no one has seen God.

[mpleportals]

Can the Koran proove that Muhamad is a prophet of God?

No

[PastorGeezuss]

"Can the Koran proove that Muhamad is a prophet of God?"

Mohammed would have to be a deep sea diver in order for him to write some of things written in the Koran.

Then after that refreshing swim he would of had to walk the desert with a metal detector in order to figure out the locations of the lost city, mentioned in the koran, but just recently found by Satelitte imaging.

In the mean time Jesus attacks a fig tree for not producing fruit. Well Jesus the fig trees are seasonal.

[mpleportals]

I don't believe in your statements. I can also claim that Jesus resurrected. Nobody found his dead body. He moved a extremely heavy stone that was in front of his grave and that in front of the eyes of Roman guards.

[PastorGeezuss]

Name the Roman guards? Better yet provide the written statement from those Roman guards.

Of course your not going to believe what I say regarding the Koran. But I'm not here to preach to you, I am only pointing out what is written in the Koran a book you have obviously not read but condemn as being similiar to the Bible another book which you probably have not read either.

[mpleportals]

Give me a written statement by somebody who has seen Muhamed detecting those cities

[PastorGeezuss]

"Give me a written statement by somebody who has seen Muhamed detecting those cities"

It is written in the Koran. You may not want to believe this but the Koran is actually a book which means it was written.

And Muhammed never dected those cities they are mentioned in the Koran, obviously indicating a higher power was involved.

[mpleportals]

The written statements of the romans are in the bible

[PastorGeezuss]

"The written statements of the romans are in the bible"

The Bible says it is the written statement of the Roman guards. Were do the Roman guards independently make the statement?

[mpleportals]

The Koran has used as an excuse for Terrorist attacks and hate

[PastorGeezuss]

"The Koran has used as an excuse for Terrorist attacks and hate"

No the Koran was not used for terrorist attacks. Arab soverienty and freedom were used. The PLO is not Islamically motivated and it has been fighting Israel for a lot longer than any other group.

George Habash one of the founding fathers of resistence against Israel was a Christian.

[mpleportals]

The State We Are in: Identity, Terror, and the Law of Jihad

by Aftab A. Malik This anthology analyzes .. Focusing on the recent London terrorist bombings, it examines verses from the Koran" "used by terrorists to justify terrorist attacks and concludes with a comprehensive fatwa against suicide bombings and the targeting of civilians.

[PastorGeezuss]

Some may argue that 9/11 and 7/7 were all inside jobs. So "Muslim terrorists" won't even be a factor.

9/11 and 7/7 are very debateable in their own right.

[mpleportals]

Yea conspiracy theorists

[mpleportals]

At what about those guys who kill civilians in front of cameras? Is that a photo-montage by whites?

[PastorGeezuss]

"At what about those guys who kill civilians in front of cameras? Is that a photo-montage by whites?"

What guys which civillians?

[mpleportals]

It a hobby some people have in middle east. To kidnap Europeans and execute them

[PastorGeezuss]

"It a hobby some people have in middle east. To kidnap Europeans and execute them"

I don't think the Israeli sex slave industry and the Israel child snuff movies have anything to do with what we are talking about but go ahead if you like and discuss it anyways...

[mpleportals]

I've got to go my friend. Before leaving I would just like to wish you the best in your life. I don't dislike or hate anybody in this world. I don't care about the color of skin, religion or nationalities. What is the most important is the quality people have as humans

[PastorGeezuss]

mpleportals alright be safe out there... Take care of yourself...

I think we all are in need of better understanding. I think the Media has brainwashed us for far too long...

Lots to talk about...

[mpleportals]

"Including a detailed glossary, this collection of essays from renowned Muslim scholars draws upon both the classic Islamic intellectual discourse and current social and cultural observations."

This is what Muslim scolars say. That it has been used...

[coldsholdah]

damn the man comes to give his intellectual view point on a crumbling economic system and instead of giving a intellectual response from yourselves, you guys just staight criticise him...

Deep dish...

[Tenuk868]

U know, this is a bless of democracy ,imam,preacher,priest,politici­an,capitalist,sosialist,econom­ist,everyone from the lowest level of of society to highest of them , all of them can give opinions and speak aloud of it, proud with it. This is the main and the highest principle of Democracy. -YES WE CAN-OBAMA 08

[ActionAm7]

also very funny... this brother is so scholarly --ok and sincere, that's good-- but so far none of the comments on the video address his serious comments, just have idiots throwing mud lol. ...Like the capitalist system itself?

[transtlantic]

Religion role in economics: they are an enterprise just like the next one.

About the end part of the video: you can't boss around people. In a democracy, where religion can't do a thing to rule people, people have basic rights, and they say people have free will, as long as they don't destroy the free will of the next one (logic loop).

Final point: religion has no say in global economics.

[alhaseera]

his face like a devil face

[PeelTower]

Your religion means nothing in our lands ....you must take that on board and keep it on board. I repeat, your faith is alien and uninvited so be well mannered and shut your mouth about it. We don't care about your infidel faith. Keep it to yourselves and all will be well. Best if you go back to where your fathers came from and get out of Europe.

[PastorGeezuss]

PeelTower...

Get out of Iraq and Palestine. Take your Jews back to Europe with you. Give up your homes to them, give your land to them, take your filth out of our lands.

Go home and starve. Stop stealing other peoples oil.

Just kill yourself so we can have Peace...

[PeelTower]

We will continue to Crusade against you infidel pagans until the Hagia Sophia is back in the hands of the faith which built it. Putting up minarets doesn't change the fact that it is a Christian church.

You don't want to live in peace. You are colonialists who have been attacking other nations since the beginning of your infidel faith.

You will wait a long time if you are waiting for my suicide. My father just died at the age of 87 my grandmother was 96 and my mother is still alive and well now.

[PastorGeezuss]

Just take back the Germans/Russians/French/Britis­h Zionists from Palestine...

That is all the world is aking for. Take them in. Give them your home. Can you do that?

Can you stop sending your garbage to our lands? Leave Native lands as well.

Stop the colonialization of America/Australia.

You go home we go home...

[mpleportals]

Wake up. You live in the 21st century!

Israelis were there for thousands of years. You kicked the out and they recently returned back...

[PastorGeezuss]

Who claims they were there for thousands of years the Bible? The same Bible that claims the world is flat and the world revolves around the Sun

That Bible is an badly written novel. It is a collection of idiotic stories.

One stupid story has the Father of Jews Abraham selling his wife Sarah to the Pharoh who rejects her and the Pharoh is the bad guy according to the Bible.

Nonsense works...

[mpleportals]

History books for example?

[PastorGeezuss]

Show me a history book, about only Jews living in Palestine, that relies on sources other than the Bible...

[mpleportals]

What do you think that history researchers do? Copy and paste the bible into their books/research articles?

[PastorGeezuss]

Why don't you show me a history book, about only Jews living in Palestine, that relies on sources other than the Bible.

Perhaps you failed to comprehend what I said. Show me a book written by a historian, who lived pre-Christ, stating that only Jews lived in that region.

[mpleportals]

I don't claim that only Jews were in Israel. I say that they also used to live there. I don't see why the should not have the right to live in the same land as palestinians. The number of historians who live BC is very limited. History also has developed as a subject since then. What about modern/recent historians?

[PastorGeezuss]

mpleportals you said "History books for example?" Show me those history books...

Historians of the Ancient Period include:

Herodotus (484 c. 420 BC)

Berossus, (early 3rd century BC)

Timaeus of Tauromenium, (c. 345 c. 250 BC)

Sima Qian, (c. 145 - c. 86 BC)

Then there is Manetho. An Egyptian historian and priest from Sebennytos 3rd century BC. Manetho wrote the Aegyptiaca (History of Egypt).

Manetho documents the Hyksos invasion. Learn about it then talk to me...

[mpleportals]

The excavations don't have any value at all? The study of ancient sources?

[mpleportals]

"It is a collection of idiotic stories."

I believe the same about the Koran

[PastorGeezuss]

But the idiotic stories from the Koran aren't used by the UN to justify ethnic cleansening of innocent people for a paranoid, hateful, delussional group of people termed "Chosen Ones."

[mpleportals]

Koran is used to make muslim people hate the kufars and believe in jihad. That is equally bad.

[mpleportals]

Used by some. I want to believe that good muslims don't hate. I can confirm that good Christians don't

[PastorGeezuss]

Well I don't care about the Koran... I'm not argueing that, what I am arguing is this:

"Israelis were there for thousands of years. You kicked the out and they recently returned back..."

Show me were the Jews were in Palestine for thousands of years and the all of them were kicked out by Arabs.

That is all I'm asking for...

If you are going to say, "because the Bible says so," then you have zero validity because the Bible aka Torah is nothing more than delussional rants.

[mpleportals]

Google that:

History of Ancient Israel -- Bibliography

Victor H. Matthews

[MrGrandDragon]

@mpleportals

"kufar" or "kafir" is not suppose to be a derogatory term. It simply means a none believer, the one who covers, is covered, or concealed...

It is an open ended term and if people use it in a condescending manner then it becomes offensive, yet the term itself remains neutral. judging form the nuance of your comment I take it you have no problem wearing that title.

Wear it proudly, and the Muslim will laugh at you

[transtlantic]

Peel Tower...You forget that there are millions of muslim european citizens... tolerance and understanding is better than pure hate. And they have the same rights of you

[HamdiBosni]

There are indigenous European Muslims, and there have been for hundreds of years.

[PeelTower]

Bosnians don't count. They are just traitors who converted for profit and advantage under the Ottoman occupation. You are the shit of Europe.

[HamdiBosni]

So you arbitrarily decide who does and does not count? If I don't count as a European and (I presume) nor do the Albanians, the Chechens or other indigenous European Muslims, where should we go? Or do you prefer that Christian Europe deals with us according to its tradition when it comes to non-Christian minorities, like say the Jews? Were they also colonialists when Christian Europe decided to kill them? By the way, by your logic Christianity is alien to Europe since it was originally pagan.

[PeelTower]

There are no indigenous muslims in Europe. They are the offspring of those dominated by invading occupying armies from foreign countries. They are traitors to their own people.

Bosnia doesn't count as European, it is a traitor state. A Trojan Horse for islam. We know what you are and we won't forget.

[PeelTower]

The whole world was orignially pagan you fool. And islam came hundreds of years after christianity. So there is no indigenous islam in Europe or anywhere else for that matter. Islam is a fake made up of the other two before it. It is plagarised.

[HamdiBosni]

All of the European peoples should be considered traitors according to you since all of them left their original beliefs for religions which emanate from the Middle East (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). And since Christianity came after Judaism, it too should be considered plagiarism according to you. You should really learn something about being consistent before you engage in a discussion. By the way, when can I expect a change in the world map so that Bosnia is excluded from Europe?

[qarnain06]

If Pagans came first why dont they have a book like Bible or Quran giving clear guidence?

Have you not heared the story of Moses when he went up to receive commandments his people fell into idol worship?

[PeelTower]

Well maybe you should go to Egypt and Iran to ask where the ancient Pharaohs or Persians kept their books? If they had no books or they did have books is totally irrelevant. This is the kind of moronic statement I've come to expect from muslim boys who know absolutely fuck all about life. They are all weird little virgins until they get to 29 or something. Unless they rape their cattle (which I have actually seen in the Pakistan border) . You are weird itdiots. Don't bother me again. I am busy.

[damasgate]

Actually you FAIL miserably at life because your pretty much a dogmatic Anti-Semite Monkey. In fact you Prove evolution.

[PeelTower]

Anti-Semite? Do you even know what a Semite is?

As for proving evolution, I'm happy to do that. It is better than believing the Abrahamic joke which moronic psychopaths fight over.

As far as I know (and I know much more than you) there was nobody else in the mythical garden of eden appart from Adam, Eve and a 'serpent'. Now when Adam and Eve decided to 'eat the fruit' and Eve had her children....tell me Mr. anti-evolution man, where did the next generation come from?

Weirdo freaks.

[DarthSutekh]

Because the Roman Church made it policy to enforce destruction of such texts. A policy that continued into the conquest of the new world with the burning of virtually every Aztec, Mayan, Incan, ect. text.

[Aggiej7]

OK!