Man or Woman: South African Athlete Caster Semenya Gender Testing

[SopranoSaxBoss]

Caster is a woman !

Now the world see what happens when South Africa sends their best athlettes !

No more apartied !

[checkers1245]

Caster is a man and South Africa knows this. But of course they are too shady and sneaky not to acknowledge this fact. They will continue to let this man race against women. The REAL women runners should boycott all races or competitions that allow this man to race against women.

[45Mang]

chopped dick?????

[Garciamrcool]

She has testes. Its not fair she runs against other women.

[damemagneten]

How hard can it be to check the gender? Just take a look at the crouch 

[5eurocups2005]

"this person looks like my brother" Hahahaha

[tentimez101]

she has dominating male jeans in her dna... probly levis

[tentimez101]

deffo a dude

[truthero]

dude can really move

[schusterlehrling]

Why does the IAAF hide the test result?

[vargyna]

TAKE the Gold medal back and tell "it" to go fuck him/herself!!!

[hawzed]

The fact that the results of the gender test are not going to be released says it all about him.

[tietajajoshua]

STATISTICS CALCULATION - from

BR-0 com/olympics htm

[mglicto]

con ese apellido esta bastante claro lo q es xd

[Mejuz]

I think Prof. Dr. Heidemarie Neitzel, Professor of the Berlin Charité University's Cytogenetic Dept. is a good source, too. And there are more than one scientific opinion in genetics, don't you think?

[Mejuz]

Sorry, instead of "intersex" I wanted to say sex change! Otherwise makes no sense.

[Mejuz]

Atlanta I brought up in regard to AIS. Not Intersex, by the way.

[Mejuz]

Hey greg, by the way, I already stated 2 days ago that after sex change you gotta wait two years.. Proof you really don't read, you just assume everybody else has no clue. While YOU know everything. I guess that is the basis of this useless discussion. Please research AIS (XY) and AIS in Atlanta 1996. Maybe you'll find what I tried to tell you on the internet, from trustworthy sources. I give up on you, you're just too stubborn.

[greg8698]

@mejuz, I certainly do read the comments. Your comment dealt with an individual who decides to under go a sex change operation and then wants to participate in events with people who have been the same sex their entire life. My comment dealt with an individual who is born with sexual reproductive organs of both sexes and then decides to have surgery to make them one sex or the other.

[Mejuz]

It's the hormonal treatment that has to be completed 2 years prior to competing again, whether you are sex-reassingment operation OR sex change. It's not the operation that triggers the two years, but the end of therapy. In both cases the same point. But leave those details aside. Our opinion will not matter in the outcome of the CS case. But it matters everyday if we show respect to people who struggle with gender trouble. That's what we CAN do. Amen ;-)

[Mejuz]

But you're right I was imprecise in this point. Apologies, wrong example.

[greg8698]

I already knew it depended on the completion of replacement hormone therapy. Back to your belief that it is not about the chromosomes either. You can believe that if you want, but modern science, and geneticists would tell you, you are crazy than a loon..

[greg8698]

The two year ban on athletes who have gone through sex change operations, was put into effect, years before the Olympic Games were held in Atlanta in 1996. In addition, I wouldn't place a lot of medical advice in an article that states, "and that laboratory verification of the gender of female athletes will reside in the historical chronicles of the Olympic Games together with competition in the nude of their ancient male predecessors.

[greg8698]

Furthermore, if you honestly believe that gender is not determined by chromosomes either, you are foolish or in self denial. Because, 90 percent of genetic experts as well as general science would say, your crazy. I suggest you do a little more research rather than relying on one published paper discussing the matter. In retrospect, I think it is you who either doesn't or can't read.

[Mejuz]

You're in denial, my friend. You believe the world is constituted of facts, black and white. And you kill every messenger who tries to show you the colours in between.

How come you think I am not a scientist? How come you KNOW I only read one Paper? Assumptions. (PS: imprecise I was in wording, not content! Sorry English is not my native language)

[greg8698]

Because, if you were any of these things, you would not be talking idiocy. Especially with only one article to back you up. And even that article, was not published in any major medical journal. And take it from someone who knows, Medscape Woman's Health is nowhere near being a major medical journal.

[jajalo42]

that shits not right

[ThelilBurst]

she is a female n to me thats messed up puttin some1 busieness in front of the world how would u feel if some1 did thats to u ( or a homapadite

[studenlawyer]

when you public; you have less privacy

[Zrenjaninac]

Produces high testosterone, looks more like a male, has testes and no ovaries. Someone kept quiet about this, definitely doesn't deserve the win, but then again, the media is making it a huge deal aside from the commitee. It's their job to know and decide what happens not the media spreading global news.

[studenlawyer]

Hey without fact, I can speculate that Caster has female organs; parents testimony.  Medical exams show there is an internal testicles; and no ovaries hence the prduction of testerone is indicative of male.

[greg8698]

So far, what has been leaked to the media, is no womb, penis, or ovaries and an XY chromosome pair. Instead, reports have stated that CS has a vagina and internal testes. If she wants to compete against female athletes, then the internal testes would have to be surgically removed followed by estrogen replacement therapy in order for her to take on more female characteristics. Even then she would be banned for 2 years before being allowed to compete against other females.

[greg8698]

As for the XY chromosome pair, that can never be changed.

[alypaige88]

I'm disgusted that "it" was raised for 18 years as a female...cuz sure, you can totally still be a woman without getting ur period...wtf?! this is so messed up. "it" should be competing with the men.

[womanwheart]

...she can never have children and people saying she is a man. She is 18 years old!!! And it is obvious she was not trying to pull one over on anyone, very very sad. To me she was raised as a woman and has a vagina plus no study has been done on the make up of the brain, so this is a young woman.

[alypaige88]

But all the articles are saying that the test results show that she has NO ovaries and NO uterus, so how can you still be a woman? i don't understand...

[womanwheart]

This young lady has a vagina okay. She does not have a womb and no ovaries and has testes....this is a body deformity. Now, there is no test on the brain, it has been established that the brain makeup matters as well. But what is really tragic is the double whammy of this 18 yr old finding out

[studenlawyer]

caster will be okay; many people cannot have kids. Also, there is a financial windfall for this athlete

[blessedvorgar1]

@studenlawyer student lawyer stfu. Shut up. She is a girl, yall just mad cuz she got amd skillz, I bet all those people that are talking can not even run half of a mile. So be quiet. She is not convincing anyone, but you sound like you colud use a dick, so go get some

[greg8698]

As a medical professional, I can say with 100% accuracy that there is an established medical protocol for dealing with a child born with the reproductive organs of both sexes. That protocol was not followed in this case and now CS will pay the price for someones stupidity. This is not a case where he can be dressed up like a woman and make it so. The fact that he has testicles and therefore produces testosterone means genetically he is more like a man than a woman. The IAAF has to DQ him..

[studenlawyer]

interesting point, IAAF should follow protocol

[greg8698]

I think the IAAF is trying to establish a protocol to follow in the future. The only problem is that the medical protocol should have been followed years ago when it was discovered that Caster had reproductive organs of both sexes. Had that happened, the testicles would have been surgically removed and female hormone therapy would have been started. As a result of the female hormone, Estrogen being given to CS, he most likely would have developed many of the traits of a female and not a male.

[greg8698]

The people who are responsible for what has happened, were his parents who foolishly thought they could just raise him as a female and that was all that was needed. They were so wrong! However, it is apparent the South African government is exploiting CS for a number of reasons and the comments they make fly in the face of accepted medical science. Most likely, greed is the reason. But there is no major company like Nike or Reebok that is going to offer CS an endorsement deal.

[Mejuz]

Greg, the Swiss Intersexuals organisation of fight this protocol saying everybody should await adulthood to decide which gender they want to be - before any surgery is carried out. Gender is a medical, social and psychological matter, and they claim removing organs and starting hormone treatments BEFORE someone has developed his/her adult personality is wrong, as nobody knows whether they'll gravitate more towards their female or male side later, identitywise. BTW: I hate the way you say "HIM".

[greg8698]

@Mejuz, while you may not like the way I say him, the truth is his genetic DNA test revealed an XY Chromosome pair. Therefore, he is genetically and biologically a male, hence the reference to me using the term, "him." While you may not like it, all I can say to you is, face the facts, when an individual has an XY chromosome pair, they can in no way claim they are a female. To truly be a female, they would have to have a XX chromosome pair. He doesn't and therefore is a him not a she.

[Mejuz]

When I saw her run, I instantly suspected an intersex condition (maybe AIS: XY, often with female genital phenotype?). So the baby Caster was raised as a girl, at least until puberty. I rate the psychological gender (education) and gender identity higher than chromosomes, that is why I prefer to call her SHE. Take the example of someone who had a sex change from man to woman: They still are XY, but in their passports, it says female. And the IAAF enlists them with women. Despite XY (2 yrs later)

[Mejuz]

@greg: sth else: The "facts" you want me to face are not that clear: In Atlanta 1996, 8 female athletes failed gender tests, but were readmitted; 7 with intersex conditions (CAIS/PAIS - XY!). So the lines between genders are blurred, even in athletics, where we have to ensure a clear dividing line for fairness. This casts a shadow of doubt on the protocol you mention, I think, because in society, the distinction is even wider and less regulated than in sports.

[greg8698]

While you may think the issue is cloudy, not only does Caster have an XY chromosome pair, he also has undescended testes which are producing testoserone, which means he is at an advantage when competing against females who don't receive the amount of testosterone he is getting. Based on these two facts, an XY chromosome pair and undescended testes, he is a "he" rather than a "she". If he wants to compete against females, then the testes have to go, and estrogen therapy has to be started.

[Mejuz]

AIS condition can come with internal testes as well, still the IOC had these athletes in Atlanta compete against women; things ARE cloudy!

Q: Would you call your neighbor's daughter suddenly HE when, after 13 years known to you as a SHE, someone found out she had internal testes/another intersex condition? It would probably be medically correct, but incredibly cruel. Gender is not only medical.

If Caster's found to have an unfair advantage: I agree she must stop female races or get treatment.

[greg8698]

Where I live, my neighbors would not let their female child go to age 18 without ever having menses when 2 other daughters have and not have taken her to see a gynecologist to find out why.(yes, he has two other sisters) And after finding out why, then following the medical protocol so that she knows what gender she really is. The parents in this case are incredibly stupid as is her coach and the SAG. I believe they thought they could do this without someone questioning her or his gender. Wrong!

[Mejuz]

Believe me, I knew you'd answer this!! You really stick to that protocol of yours, don't you! ;-) That's why I wrote 13 yrs. But still, even if all medical measures were being taken: All perfectly well and swell afterwards? Gender Identity 100 % clear? No Trauma, no trouble? I fully agree that the SA officials failed totally. But I don't blame her family. They're simple people from a rural area. Gender = Genitals, everything else was not considered.

[Mejuz]

PS: I am glad that where you live nothing goes wrong and all people act according to protocol...

In philosophy, we use the term "thought experiment". The question about the neighbor was hypothetical and should work like a thought experiment. The fact that you refuse answering it, never said anything about my doubts with the protocol, refuse that gender is cloudy... why? Well - It sounds as if someone tries to protect his views from being rocked to heavily. My guess.

[greg8698]

You want me to answer you question? Fine, I will. If my neighbors did the right thing and got their child the proper treatment, then I would address her or him as to whichever gender the child selected to be. However, that is only if the proper medical treatment was pursued but I would never forget the fact that no matter what gender was ultimately selected, as long as that Y chromosome shows up, he is still genetically a male and that can never be changed.

[studenlawyer]

My point is if there were both organs-vagina and penis. At puberty and with proper tests. Say there were ovaries, tube and womb-woman. In this case there are no ovaries, tube and perhaps womb them male. Caster case it that there may be vagina; that it. Caster and medical professionals can decided how to proceed.

[greg8698]

Actually, you almost have it right. A person could have 3 vagina's and 4 uterus's and if their genetic DNA test reveals an XY chromosome pair, then biologically and genetically, that individual is a male. Or a person could be born with 2 penis but with a XX chromosome pair, and that person is still genetically and biologically a female. Now, while that has never happened, god forbid it ever does.

[Mejuz]

I know one thing: you don't read the posts you're answering to. Most of the facts you try to teach me here I have stated a long time ago. I agree that IAAF officials gotta deal with the case legally. I never said anything different, did I?? I argued mostly on the level of respect - and that is not IAAF's speciality. And that is not determined by chromosomes either. Why not listening to concerned people to understand how intersex affects a life? We're outsiders, they are concernded.

[greg8698]

Mejuz, you apparently have know knowledge of genetics or you wouldn't be arguing this issue with the arguments you are using. First of all, it doesn't mean a flip what the Swiss Inter sexual organization argues because this is not between the Swiss Inter sexual organization and the IAAF. It is between the IAAF and the SAG sports authority. In addition, while someone who has gone through a sex change operation, they must in fact wait 2 yrs before competing against people of their new gender.

[argetfalcon]

Still say she's a Women

My girl has rather large muscles to but she is clearly a women

[xrangerx]

your girl has ovaries and a womb (I assume). CASTER DOES NOT. and she has testes. You still consider him a woman?

[argetfalcon]

She should she's carrying my child

and the reports about her having testes haven't been confirmed

[ballpark4]

i'd sue the shit out of the testers. And she's only 18 what the f i knew a couple females when they where younger who looked like dudes who are now sexy as ....

[studenlawyer]

you would not like Semenya in bed cus; might have vj but a penis may slider out and bite you, yes!

[versitalica]

you are a funny Guyanese man! Thanks for the laughs. Big up Guyana, the best storytellers in the world!!!

[Winjury]

lol. if u cant see this person has chest hair, body figure of a man, testicles, and a manly voice- wow. lol. cant believe this dude fooled the judges.

[wwickeddogg]

So if she is capable of bearing children will you believe that she is the first man to get pregnant?

[SHDMZX]

@ jgv62... from which planet are you from.

WHO the fuck told you that black are after WHITE women...

Your an IDIOT for sure.....

White woman dont have ASS, nice curvaceous body and beautiful tits.

That why they are doing plastic surgery so they can look like BLACK women.

[crharvey94]

Excuse me SHDMZX.. you sound just as idiotic as jgv62. I've seen PLENTLY of white women with big asses, huge breasts, and nice bodies.. and i've seen just as many black women with flat butts, small boobs, and stick figure bodies. Think before you post. (;

[jgv62]

you can see why black men want to fuck white women so much black women are just too fucking UGLY n NASTY FACT.

[jumpwatson]

and white women want to fuck black man because white guys are not real men there girly as fuck

[jgv62]

no wonder ur bitter ur black i feel ur pain

[VprojectpkzV]

Semen Ya

[Sharleneg]

lol u guyanese or trinidadian? lol i enjoy hearing people speak that i can relate to! im guyanese

[ThaSoulFya]

I wondered too! My guess is Trini but of course...Just a guess.

[studenlawyer]

Honorable Trini

[studenlawyer]

I am Guyanese but studied and lived in Trinidad for 15 years....lol

[ThaSoulFya]

Ooooh we was both right!!!! I think your accent is quite Trini-fied though...First thing I thought when I heard it.

[studenlawyer]

hey this gender test is simply to see if Caster is dickiefied. Testeronous, or Ovaried with womb and estrogenized. Nothing else.

[NakedBYdesign]

Is been confirmed SEMENya is NOT a woman! no ovaries, no womb all male there!!

[beronut]

"all male there!!" - that is funny.

But, it is extremely saddening that, while she doesn't have control of her nature, she is publicly being embarrassed. Totally inappropriate.

[argetfalcon]

NOT FUNNY!

NOT FUNNY AT ALL!

[hoodpriincess]

wow

That was really racist from Balatou

To be honest most blacks are actually smarter than you white people, and no u aint a nice person

[mercdriver]

Yeah, that's why they all eat and work in McDonalds.

[kirkbyla]

her name is an anagram of yes a secret man

[mercdriver]

You're right, wow!

[now1792]

Go kiss ur mothers stinky ass, you fagat embecile

[thoughtly]

It all goes to show what an enormous waste of money and time female athletics is. When they can't compete with men why not try something else? like knitting and sewing.

[valentino0179]

oh my god, i have to throw up

[mercdriver]

He's definitly got a bulge in his pants.

[now1792]

Shut up, i grew up with her, she is my friend fool!

[mercdriver]

Yeah, I stood next to him at the urinals, he needed a shave though.

[discornbgirl]

Also, it's not nice to call someone ugly. Thats just sad people.

[discornbgirl]

Damn, poor girl, she, women, female for what she has to go through. Stand proud Black Women.

[studenlawyer]

Hi, this is not about race but woman or man

[discornbgirl]

Women.

[studenlawyer]

Is there a lover somewhere? Man or Woman stand up and clear the air

[now1792]

Shut up u fool! girls in Africa do not start dating and having sex like ur stupid parents allow you. At 18 girls in Africa concentrate on school and not men.

[studenlawyer]

what is this you telling me; I from Caribbean close eh? do not kid yourself; there are many who can do both, school and guys, oui!

[piontro]

He's a MAN, whoever deny it is an asshole. Listen to his voice, his physique, her demeanor. He's more man then George Bush.

[now1792]

U r the asshoe...have u seen how body building women look like? U r retarded, i am surprised u can read and write.

[AwsomestKill]

pfft man he even has semen in his name

[Fig1024]

The body looks pretty manly. Hell, I'm a guy and I'd want to look like that!

It's not a feminine body by any means - which is the way it is for many athletes. But then, why have a distinction between male and female competitions at all if women have manly bodies? let male and female compete together

[Rata4You]

This shit was tried in 1930 - I learned. HE wasn't discovered until 1980 when he was shot to death during an armed robbery - the autopsy discovered he was a he.

This is a MAN - if not, SHE is the ugliest woman on earth and should request for gender reassignment.

[wearewanted2012]

i see no boobs or anything, its a fucking guy

[esdtenis]

Not everyone fits into a nice little box of male or female. Our common definitions of gender is based on external anatomy, but the body is much more complicated than that.

[studenlawyer]

Tell moi, what other category there is?

[esdtenis]

Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome

[xXxImpalAxXx]

its man

[zulukydd]

ppl are just jelous why dont you ask if bolt is a woman?

[piontro]

Is just common sense, he doesn't look like a woman at all. Even her voice is a male voice. he or she looks more manly then George Bush. People have to be really STUPID not to see beyond their own noses. This is a guy.

[studenlawyer]

hey, women cannot run as fast as men; so this question is not necessary. If he were running in women races then it was a problem.

[zulukydd]

i did nt notice he was a man he looked female

[WELLBRAN]

Apart from the appearance of this person its the race times produced which should ring alarm bells..also the fact that she is supposed to come from nowhere and from a rural background she seems comnpletely calm and confident in a huge stadium full of people where she has never been before which is baffling

[blenkarni]

They should have not announced the test until after the result. The IAAF have degraded her.

I believe that she is either intersexed or taking male hormones to increase her performance. She has a female birth certificate but a boys name which might show her parents understood that she is intersexed.

[Rata4You]

Intersexed's don't have a classification in the olympics. Whatever you wanna discribe her/he/it, it does NOT qualify under any sex.

[pomelo258]

just think about how you would feel if someone tells you your not what you are

[studenlawyer]

That is part of the contract; folks must follow instructions without getting hurt..

[JonGarrett2008]

"she" should just "show" us if she's a she.

[broughderg]

I see a lot of young makes confused about their own sexuality attacking her on the thread.

She is either intersexed; i.e. both female and male or she has been taking male hormones to improve her performance.

[Thejaze22]

weak up you guys, there´s no such huge technologie in Africa to change man to womman!!!! She´s just SHE!! Trust me!! If you look back and see her background, since she was a kid she used to play boys sports, football, running....etc... Don´t judge her for something she didn´t do!!!

[BR177]

women, clearly... we are not used to see bulk female sprinters and that's it...

[joecool3535]

lol coz she is pumped up with steroids and testo and something more... thats why my little girl looks like male. thats al...

[skunkapotamus]

Well, I think that black women should be able to compete with men and vice versa since they look and smell like men. Isnt it discriminatory to make men and women run separately?

[studenlawyer]

let us keep it civil, please

[studenlawyer]

Did she ever had a male close friend?

[studenlawyer]

Can her boy friend please speak up?

[genrap45]

only the inside of her/him can tell

[exolonionocleus]

Thats a women? Then why does she look like King Kong?

[TheRealVerbz]

GENDER TESTING?!?!?! WTF? Pull down your pants. I'm sure doctors can tell the difference between an oversized clit and a dick. What is the deal? Just watch when she takes a piss. Does she stand or sit? pretty easy gender testing.... I don't get it. Would it be sexist if you denied hermaphrodites the right to run both male and female events? haha

[Bojaxs]

Funny, isn't it?

All this expensive and time consuming testing when all he/she has to do is pull his/her pants down.

[jordan2hip1555]

you can really never known

But i think she's a girl, you cant blame her if she looks like that, she's beautiful in the inside, thats all what matters

[ryne22bits]

what you're saying is if a woman is built like a guy she can be on a male team, and a guy built like a woman he can be on a female team. i agree. if you are a guy , but feel like a woman inside, you should be allowed to choose what team you want. it's just like using public washrooms. the sign" male or female" is outdated, you should be able to choose either one. they should remove the gender signs everywhere.

[lockfest]

really? so a man pretends to "FEEL like a woman inside" can just walk in a female restroom, and then turns out to be a pervert all along... you must be joking!!

[studenlawyer]

Hey you a trip; ladies welcome in men room but visa versa and you go to jail, lol

[Nofearfaber]

this is for sure a fucking man god what a load of bullshit. go back to south africa or whatever the fuck hole you are from man you can see the package... sick shit

[demetriorex]

100% MAN, and still has his dick attached apparently....sad :(

[kadhafi32]

She won whats all that hating for. It's too soon to judge, why don't you at least wait until we find out the truth. How about that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[katjastar1]

he looka like a man!

[misterfishermaan]

is she/he the same gender as lady gaga????...

[studenlawyer]

Hey, Ben Johnson was also extraordinary in 1988 olympic gold; steroids and Carl Lewis bumped up

[lilic1]

He's a man. No doubt.

[Rightist2]

Thats a man. Disgusting transexual.

[oduro0111]

bullshit. she is not a man

she is just good at what she does

[demetriorex]

bullshit, you can see his package in slow motion..clean your glasses.

[now1792]

U clean your glasses , mother fucker

[demetriorex]

i did and apparently casters balls are even more noticeable you dirty fucken cunt.