Edward Gal en Moorland's Totilas clinic NIC Zuidlaren deel 1

[kgbcolor]

2mins into video... RK!

[sharakphoenix]

I have been watching and riding horses all my life & this horse & Gal are just breath taking. I began by viewing their world record and now I'm studding all the video footage on YT. Do I understand Totilas is 6yrs old in this video?

[MissWishbear]

Natürlich, der läuft unter Edward Gal ja soooo viel besser. Schrecklich :/

[annaunddaslicht]

Um mal was ganz anderes zu sagen:Solang Toto unter Edward Gal war durfte man bloß nicht sagen,dass der doch Rollkur reitet.Das waren alles nur Momentaufnahmen.Jetzt aufeinmal wissen alle,dass das auf Rollkur basierte.Und ich wette ,dass das nicht nur die Überzeugten sind die das schon immer wussten.Wie viele dumme Opportunisten es doch gibt....

[hoppereiter1]

in manchen sequenzen sieht man leider deutlich einen falschen knick im hals (schritt am längeren zügel). wenn ich im schritt so unruhige schenkel hätte würde sie mir mein reitlehrer glaube ich festbinden. und wieso reitet der ein so junges pferd mit kandare??

schade, das nur sehr sehr wenige pferde noch reell ausgebildet werden.

[annaunddaslicht]

Neiiiin....Edward Gal benutzt doch keine Rollkur ^^^....wie kann man nur sowas behaupten

War ja klar,dass Totilas mit Rollkur ausgebildet wurde so wie der läuft

[96xxLauraxx96]

Schön das auch Totilas mit Rollkur geritten wurde. -.-

[Katharina88BL]

dass er noch keinen Handstand macht...

[Karooraa]

well guys, i dont care if you consider this horse being ridden in rollkur style or LDR, either one is shit, so why discussing about that. just ride your horse properly- which means, dont do it as shown in this video. i started a youngster and i didnt even use any additional reins while riding. just f*ing normal reins.

so harden the f* up and learn how to ride a horse properly. dont use rollkur or LDR. regards

[BBFazer]

@Karooraa hahaha, you all may wish that you could ride a horse in that way. Why aren't you known as a world top amazone??

[LiSa88360]

Also mir ist die Nase auch zu oft zu deutlich hinter der Senkrechten...das Genick sollte der höchste Punkt sein, was hier nicht der Fall ist.

[LiSa88360]

@LiSa88360 so, habe jetzt das Video auc ganz zu Ende geschaut: Das Genick ist definitiv viel zu eng und lose Zügel kann ich nicht erkennen. Keine Rollkur? Nein? Dann eben nicht...dann eben LDR !!!

[BBFazer]

@LiSa88360 Kauf mall eine gute brille!!

[LiSa88360]

@BBFazer so hat jeder seine meinung ;-)

[LiSa88360]

@BBFazer so hat jeder seine meinung ;-)

[BBFazer]

@LiSa88360 Heey Lisa, hatt die ganze FEi es dan falsch wenn Sie Edward mehrmals als 1e platzieren? Weist du ess wirklich besser? Edward und Totilas waren die letzten jahre fur viel menschen der hauptgrund sich wieder live dressur an zu schauen. Erst mals abwarten ob M.A.Rath es besser kann.

[LiSa88360]

@BBFazer Aber schau doch einfach genau hin!! Nur weil jemand sagt, dass das so gut ist und dass man so Turniere und Preise gewinnt heißt das doch nicht, dass es auch wirklich so ist. Man sollte trotzdem nochmal alles hinterfragen und darüber nachdenken, ob das seine Richtigkeit haben kann. Es ist im Turniersport leider sehr oft so, dass es mehr darum geht, dass ein Pferd eine Lektion ausführt, als darum WIE es sie asuführt.

[BBFazer]

@LiSa88360 Und wie Totilas und Edward dass ausfuhren ist wirklich eine neue klasse, daruber sind auch die Deutschen Jury mitglieder sich einig. Sie mahl wie Totilas nach der prufung der ring verläst weil Edward im nur in einer hand mit loser zugel fuhrt. Dann kannst du doch nicht sagen dass Totilas dann nicht entspannt lauft.?!! Mann soll doch offen stehen fuhr neuen einzichten in der dressuur. Hasst du Edward und Totilas mahl live gesehen. Ich vermutte von nicht.

[LiSa88360]

@BBFazer Da lässt er ihn aber auch in Ruhe?! Ich habe ja nicht gesagt, dass das Pferd nicht entspannt laufen kann. Jeder sollte sein Pferd mit losem Zügel reiten können und wenn es nur ein Meter sind sollte das Lenken, das Anhalten und das Rückwärtsrichten auch am losen Zügel klappen, dafür muss man keine Turniere gehen können. Aber so hat eben jeder seine Meinung und seine Ansichten. ich vertrete meine Meinung und du deine. Der Rest kann sich ja ein eigenes Bild machen :-)

[LiSa88360]

@BBFazer das Genick sitzt direkt hinter den Ohren und man sieht, dass es nicht der höchste Punkt ist, das ist nunmal Fakt. Wer das nicht sieht hat die Anatomie des Pferdes nicht verstanden. Das Genick ist tiefer als der Mähnenkamm.

[LiSa88360]

@BBFazer Da brauch man keine Brille, man muss sich einfach nur das Video anschauen! Das Genick befindet sich direkt hinter den Ohren. Es befindet sich beim reiten tiefer als der Mähnenkamm und somit nicht der höchste Punkt. Die Stirn-Nasen-Linie zeigt nach hinten/unten, d.h. das Pferd geht hinter der Senkrechten. Außerdem ist die Kehle nicht offen sondern eng. Das ist, was man auf dem Video sieht.

[vickywhispy]

i'm really sorry for those of you who don't speak german, because they're so right!

that horse is moving forward-downward and edward is absolutely NOT using rollkur on totilas!

[TorqueBrooklyn]

@vickywhispy Are you retarded?

[sk3lt0n]

I love how a horse's head goes behind the vertical and suddenly everyones talking about rolkur. For those with the un-trained eye as to what rolkur is I suggest you do a bit of research and not look at the videos on her as alot of them are wrong.

Rolkur causes stress to the horse and tightness through the neck, back and ribs. This horse is a stallion and has a short neck with a big crest - can be mistaken for tension but if you look at the rest of the horse there is no tension.

[TorqueBrooklyn]

@sk3lt0n Rolkur is the same basic concept as LDR. Your telling everyone to do research, when you don't even know the basic facts. The horse is behind the vertical, not a little, a lot. That's rolkur.

[mettescherner]

If Edward Gal is so fantastic, why the hell does he then use Rollkür? ;) A good rider can ride his horse without use of force or violence. Oh yeah, what a good rider he is. I don't respect riders who rides the horse that way. Thank God rollkür is illegal ;)

[AshleighM82]

@mettescherner There is no violence used to put your horse into the hyperflexion position !? unless you're psycho or something... Watch Hyperflexion-Rollkur-LDR-Anky parts 1, 2 and 3 and see how soft her hands are. Even in this video there is no violnce or force. For god's sakes do yu really think you could use for against a horse like Totilas? Have you seen how strong he is? And the fact that he's a stallion gives him that much more power. I think we all know who would win that fight.

[mettescherner]

@AshleighM82

Hell yeah there are both force and violence behind this training ;) Rollkür is illegal, and thank God for that. And that's not illegal just for fun. There's a reason. And that you would know if you got your facts straight.

Anky is not a favourite either. I have studied a hell lot on this subject and Anky doesn't make it all better ;)

I just comment on the training behind this horse and rider. Horses are animals of flight, which means they adapt the pain, so they wont seem weak.

[BBFazer]

@mettescherner You Realy are blind aren't you. Look at what Mathias Alexander Rath does with Totilas. That is real torture!!! Everyone an see that M.A.Rath can't ride Totilas as relaxed as Edward!! Edward realy is the best.

[Lenius13]

schande! einem sowieso so guten pferd so etwas anzutun...! rollkur ist ein absolutes no-go!!!

[123juna123]

Übel, übel, den Richtlinien unseres Vereines mit Pferdegerechten Vorschriften dürften die beiden in dieser Haltung keinen Blumentopf gewinnen.... Wurde dort was übersehen oder werden die Regeln bald doch umgeschrieben?

[MultiMissUnique]

BahBah, al die reacties over rollkur.. Geen rollkur te zien op dit filmpje hoor.

Dit is gewoon een geweldig paard met een goede ruiter die iedereen snot voor de ogen rijden! dat sommige mensen daar erg jaloers op zijn,... snap ik best ;)

[JosieJoyful]

leute.. für rollkur ist das, was dort abläuft, zu locker. er hat den zügel lang, stellt das pferd ein bisschen, totilas gibt nach, und er gibt die zügel wieder frei. an vielen stellen sieht man auch, dass totilas sich nach unten streckne will um vorwärts abwärts zu gehen. bei rollkur wird das pferd gewaltsam an die brust gezogen, hier ist ja wohl zu sehen dass die zügel locker sind und totilas sich locker fallen lässt, auch wenn es hinter der senkrechten ist.

[workingdogbarney]

@JosieJoyful traurig, dass du nicht den unterschied zwischen vorwärts-abwärts und rückwärts abwärts siehst. und zur rollkur: da wird dem pferd doch mit gewalt klar gemacht, dass es sich nicht wehren kann und wenn das pferd sich selbst aufgegeben hat, dann braucht man eben keine gewalt mehr, um das pferd so weit hinter die senkrechte zu bekommen.

stichwort: erlernte hilflosigkeit.

[MightyAlienDwarf1000]

Nur weil er Preise abräumt heißt es nicht automatisch, dass er pferdegerecht und anatomisch korrekt reitet. Ein Gehen hinterm Zügel und Rollkur sind niemals, NIEMALS, zu dulden, weder für kurze Zeit noch dauerhaft. Die Anatomie und die Biomechanik des Pferds lässt das nicht zu. Totilas weist im übrigen im Schritt Taktunreinheiten auf, eine Verschiebung hin zum Passgang, welche durch übermäßiges rollkuren entsteht. Nur bewerten die parteiischen und kurrupten Richter das nicht!

[dwydbest]

This clinic was three years ago. Things have changed. There is now more understanding. Perhaps he doesn't use rollkur any more.... If I were a horse I'd

rather be ridden by Edward Gal with some rollkur (I don't support rollkur) than probably nearly all the ones criticising this video...

[TorqueBrooklyn]

@dwydbest LMAO well I hope some calcium deposits grow on your skull then, and your trakeha collapses. too.

[Mindiblesen99]

@dwydbest WORD! Can't agree more!

[zahnschiels]

;al ganz ehrlich: Jeder, der Dressur reitet, wünscht sich so ein Pferd reiten zu dürfen, aber nicht jeder würde das aus ihm raus holen können wie edward gal. Er reitet gut, manchmal ist es halt nötig, ein Pferd enger einzustellen, aber er macht es ja nicht die ganze Zeit. Ich finde, das sieht alles sehr locker aus!

[rudyvaldez52]

The horse is smoother at the walk and trot before this guy picks up the reins. It's a shame that BTV is the current fashion for competition and training. It is just plain ugly and ruins the fluidity of movement.

[luludaily]

Boa Leute ihr regt mich so auf! Immer eure Klugscheißersprüche... das ist keine Rollkur! Der reitet Vorwärts-Abwärts ihr Trottels! Vorwärts abwärts reitet man dann, wenn das Pferd sich lösen soll! Un ann darf das Pferd auch mal etwas tiefer laufen! lg

[Apothekenjunge]

@luludaily Von wegen Vorwärts-Abwärts-.- Setz dich mal mit Reiterei und Pferdeanatomie auseinander bevor du einen Schwachsinn verbreitetst! Beim Vorwärts-Abwärts ist die Nase vorn, der Hals tief! Nicht eingerollt!

[luludaily]

@Apothekenjunge: Ich sehe es genau so wie zahnschiels... also ich setzt mich sehrwohl damit auseinander! Und mach du es doch mal besser!

[KarolaJn13]

rollkur!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!! ;/

[wealllovethekooks]

riding low and round is an accepted way of training . I don't see the problem cause the horse is obviously relaxed and not forced to hold his head in an unnatural way.

[wealllovethekooks]

riding low and round is an accepted way of training . I don't see the problem cause the horse is obviously relaxed and not forced to hold his head in an unnatural way.

[sarah2108]

@wealllovethekooks  thats called "learned helplessness"

[wealllovethekooks]

@sarah2108

so lets suppose you have a job , and you like yr job.You would do your work without anyone forcing you to do it , but obviously there are other things you would prefer doing .(helplessness) IF you didnt like your job , and someone would force you to do it ,I dont believe that you would keep doing it without some struggle . I guess you can compare the two . Obviously Totilas would have loved to do other things , but he doesn't dislike doin dressage & he isnt forced to do it.

[wealllovethekooks]

@sarah2108

so lets suppose you have a job , and you like yr job.You would do your work without anyone forcing you to do it , but obviously there are other things you would prefer doing .(helplessness) IF you didnt like your job , and someone would force you to do it ,I dont believe that you would keep doing it without some struggle . I guess you can compare the two . Obviously Totilas would have loved to do other things , but he doesn't dislike doin dressage & he isnt forced to do it.

[LunaPalomina]

Con che coraggio si possono far vincere competizioni ai massimi livelli e far diventare un modello da seguire uno che flette il collo del proprio cavallo fin quasi a fargli toccare il petto con il naso. Che orrore

[Natulicek]

The lift of the shoulder is achieved completely incorrectly. As the horse is trying to rebalance himself from hyperflexed position, it has no other option but jump up with the shoulder. The art is achieving the lift and carriage of the shoulder by pushing the hind legs more under and allowing the horse more freedom on the front! Instead of the shoulder jumping upwards it is supposed to lift softly as the hind quarters help the shoulder in carriage!

[Natulicek]

I am afraid that the willingness of the horse will be his down fall in the end. The fact that the hyperflexion looks so non invasive in his case makes many people think that its harmful. The result is "showy" trot that so many people find amazing. But the longterm effect is damaging to the horses back!

[denrodeflekken]

@Natulicek Ive heard from a friend that was at some major European championship that while Gal was warming up Totilas the horse wasnt being "obedient enough". So Gal threw everyone who was warming up in the arena out and beat the crap out of the horse. He later won the competition... I dont know if its true, but I think this horse is slowly being broken down not just physically, but mentally too. So I wouldnt be surprised if it actually had happened.

[pirouette987]

@denrodeflekken There is always gossip and exaggeration going around about any of the hated top riders. Same was said of Klimke and all the 'non rollkurers' too. Many times. That said these horses do act up in the warmup. They are fitter than race horses, they act up.

[AshleighM82]

@denrodeflekken Do yu honestly believe that ? I think whoever said that was telling a load of crap. For one thing at an international competition beating your horse wouldn't be allowed duh ! They would disqualify you, if you're not allowed to use rollkur at a competition do you really think it would be accepted to beat your horse ? OH PLEASE ! And I don't think even Edward Gal would be allowed to kick everyone out of the warmup ring he doesn't have that kind of authority.

[UltimateDQ]

I have seen some bad examples of rollkur but this is not one of them! The horse looks soft and relaxed and the rider is not cranking him in with the hands. He changes the frame periodically, letting the horse come up, then down again. The horse is clearly not distressed . Just because the horse is behind the vertical does not mean he is being tortured. I agree that rollkur can be used in a nasty way but I see no evidence of that here.

[fleur4198]

EACH OF THEM would be NOTHING without bits, spurs, whips, medals fever and gaining-self-importance rush....

Tonns of "beautiful" words like 'aids', 'partnershiip', 'cooperation'....

And in reality nothing more than a horse KICKED, sawn on the mouth, tortured in the neck all the time... An object, means to gain "smth"...

A THING.. 'changable' and 'dangerous'... Controlled and 'trained' due to the FASHION..... It will always be the way to NOWHERE....

[AshleighM82]

@fleur4198 hahahahaha go to spec savers mate ! Or open your eyes, either one. If you actually LOOK, is this horse being sawn in the mouth ? Is he being kicked repetitively so it annoys him ? Is he uptight and nervous ? Does he look tortured to you ? My eyesight is erfectly fine and in this video I see a relaxed happy horse who is training and I see a rider with soft hands who isn't sawing at the horse's mouth... I don't know what your looking at but I see no tortured unhappy horse.

[FeeTurbule]

What happened in the dressage world? Why did people like Filatov, Neindorff, Oliveira, Chamartin, Theodorescu and Co ride fine and light, and why did RollKur happened?

[lassiesuca]

because people are more interested in medals nowadays, unfortunately, long live the ledgends of riding, they won't be forgotten, well not by people who care about riding truly, not numpties who worship this ' amazing' rider!!

[RatsterZoo]

thebluebot - It just make it even worse the a whole country think this kind of animal mistrating is a good thing :S

[BanRollkur]

I completely agree - the judges are the problem. If you go onto the British Dressage public forum - you will find out that there are a bunch of judges commenting on the forum ...all who work their horse Deep and Round or Deepa and Rounda.

NOT ONE realises that this is tensing the horses back and therefore making the hindquarters incapable of engaging!

They have obviously NEVER ridden a horse in self-carriage in lightness!!

[Sraaah1609]

Rollkur hoch 10 -.- armes Pferd.

[pinknessxlee]

There we go, the awful truth behind your precious world record.

[Elenitaencasa]

@pinknessxlee Look at the hindlegs, they are doing NOTHING !! The judges are the problem, they cannot ride and cannot see the mistakes either.

[pinknessxlee]

@Elenitaencasa:

The judges have only started a cycle, haven't they? Abuse only give birth to more abuse. What's winning is these flashy-up-front horses that are trained with this method, so people are only going to use it.

And people who say that rollkur isn't abuse, or that "it's good when being used in expert hands" are just plain ignorant. The effects of rollkur are tragic, and have have yet to see when it can actually be used good and when there isn't an alternative.

[UltimateDQ]

The horse is only 6 or 7 in this video and just schooling in a relaxed way, of course the hindlegs are not going to be AS engaged as a finished horse in collection.

[bizzybijtje]

@pinknessxlee:

You don't know what you're talking about.

Edward doesn't use rollkur, he's the best rider in the world, quite funny that everybody here thinks they're better. Cause they're not. You don't know what Edward's saying, and this video is 3 years old...

[fleur4198]

Funny....

"Something" exactly like that was said about Anky in its time.....

[pinknessxlee]

A statement of the ignorant. Edward Gal does use hyperflexion, and just because he's rated number one in the world by money-hungry, corrupted FEI judges doesn't mean he is the best rider. I don't think I'm a better rider, but I do treat my horses with respect and care. I have done extensive research on hyperflexion and the horse's biomechanics, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I say that with confidence.

Throw any insult you want at me, you can't win.

[nnxy]

Ich finde, wenn Grand Prix reiten nur möglich ist mit Hilfe der Rollkur, sollten es alle lassen! Es ist erwiesen, dass Rollkur schädlich ist! Und alle Menschen, die eine Rollkur erkennen können, können sich somit auch eine Meinung über die Reiter bilden, die sie benuzen! Egal, wie gut sie selber reiten können! Dressur soll ein Pferd kräftiger und schöner machen, und ihm nicht weh tun! Wem das egal ist, der gehört nicht aus Pferd!

[roxypoo100]

okay nevermind i know what it is. but could it be considered behind the bit?!

[miss94teen]

I don't care how good he is, I don't accept rollkur..

[mettescherner]

@miss94teen

I agree! And it's cowardly to use this method, just because you can't wait for the horse to walk perfectly with his head by himself.

[Golvklut]

Ty for putting this out.

I find it so sad that Edward Gal is using this method, would have loved to see him and Totilas done dressage without using hyperflexion - that would make me happy!

I am sure they would be able to do it well also, but time and money is an issue, always.

[thebluebot]

try riding for the netherlands then, every rider from the netherlands has to use it to win, or else they pretty much get a beating. i mean look at anky, keltec would have been a great dressage horse without it and she could have easily stopped at the beginning, but she had to win in order to continue to ride professionally for the ned, therefore she ruined that horse.

[poisoniby]

i can just agree with 1010nicole1010

lets talk about it again when you are riding at s or grand prix level...

[nederjoos]

why does everybody talks about the rollkür?! It's not animal friendly no, but it works for them. And it's not like they use it EVERY SINGLE DAY in their training...

Most of us don't even get to ride this level, so i think that they must do SOMETHING right. Rollkür is not the one and only thing that is cruel, so can we please stop always discussing about this single sucject. There's much more than the Rollkür only..

[1010nicole1010]

i do not ride with this method, because i don´t think, it´s the right way for my mare. but jesus! you are absolutely right. it sucks that people cannot ride first level but pointing with fingers at anky and others. maybe they should better learn riding than discussing hyperflection.

[FreddyOgSigrid]

Haha, he dont even get the horse to use it hindlegs.

[caspixel]

Clearly Gal and Anky are talented riders. I don't know why they think they need that technique to get the horses to perform.

[LaPrairieLoire]

Gal is a student of Anky's, so yes he likes Rollkur. If you look at Gerd Heuschman's book - it explains why what Gal says is wrong. Yes, it fools the judges - they look at the front legs whirling around and forget to look at the back legs. ... they forget to look where the poll is during competition. Reiner Klimke's horses did move exceptionally, but the horses were better trained & didn't need all this 'back stretching'!

Come on judges the FEI rules are there to be followed!!

[rfw8791]

proof that Edward Gal is a sham, a fake and a charlatain. Oh, but he is scoring in the 90%s now, so the whole FEI and the judges that award this kind of ill treatment of horses are also one big farce!

[DINGOLLY]

Unbelievable, Totilas is the most gorgeous mover ever!

[thecrazydolls]

utterly unnessacery. for what purpose does a horse need his head down there while performing piaffes its beneficial to stretch, yes, but to put a horses head in a place normally reserved for an act of submission for long stretches at a time? you can get a horse to use his back, but its not much good if hes not properly using his hindquarters as well. i often wonder what kind of work could be achieved by such magnificent animals sans rollkur.

[ottopasquier]

Son of a bitch ..... imagine that a Rollkur clinic! can you just a minute what it is going to become in imbecile beginner riders ??? excuse me I am going to go and vomit now

[Alrun11]

The horse is 'willing' because of Learned Helplessness.

It cannot see where it walks in the state of Hyperflexion/behind the vertical - it is helpless.

A loose rein from time to time is the reward for being "brav" - some horses function like this. The fighters turn into menue.

[telpeva]

2Paddock: A short translation for you from what I hear on this video:

at 2.30 (trott) he explains why he's bending over the horse's neck, it's to make it easier for the horse to use it's back muscles. He mentions his goal is to get a lot of response fom the horse with small commands, and that the head and neck's position make it easier for the horse to focus on him. Also he says that if his horse were behind the vertical the horse would not respond fast and willingly like he's doing now.

[thecrazydolls]

and you really think that the horses head needs to be down there to make him listen to gal? its actually very easy to teach a horse to respond to the smallest of aids and you sure dont need hyperflexion to do it. i dont disagree with stretching to optimise use of and muscle flexibility. but riding a horse around for several minutes with its nose on its chest doing all manner of movements requiring collection? proves you dont need collection to incorrectly perfom these movements and is also

[highsocietygirlnr1]

yeah toto:-*

[SugarBiene123]

Fucking Rollkur -.-

[Oraenschy]

rollkur for everyone, yay!

[2paddock2]

I dont speak Dutch but can someone who does explain why the horse is put constantly behind the vertical his nose stuck on his chest? Is Gal an advocate of Rollkur too?

[Ananka007]

Yep, didn't you know this? It's sad.

[friendsz123]

echt een geweldig!

[webster543]

Dank u om deze clinic hierop te plaatsen. Zeer interessant en leerzaam.

Proficiat aan Edward, als hij toen wist wat hij nu kan.... GEWELDIG

[marlinHollegien]

Pff.. sky 212, doe het maar eens na dan!

[Sky212]

Totilas is echt een geweldig paard, helaas zit er edward op.

[marjolein88]

goede clinic !