Ireland's Success with the Free Market and Anarchism

[Signzit]

would rather, small un-organized acts of violence or large over-reaching systemic organized violence?

[watermelonygoodness]

Slavery, kings, and land ownership as a prerequisite for voting privileges... Not Anarchism.

[leavesofliberty]

@shadowgeyser this

[0pinion8ted]

@RenonKoral

Not to mention it's pronounce "Breh-hin" not "bree-hon"

[BlazeLove108]

It seems like you were only protected or could do anything voluntarily if you had either a ton of land or a ton of money, which back then would be land.

[outofbubblegum]

Yes there was Slavery .... but the times were different .... and " slavery" was not what you may think it was ... it was entered into by choice.

[redgenealogy]

@outofbubblegum kinda like us paying taxes... actually, it's EXACTLY like that!

[Fetchdafish]

Hehe, Ireland, the most advanced civilization in the world. Things really have changed.

[Akin42]

Slavery was legal. They don't mention this. What's the difference between numerous examples of small-scale tyranny and a few examples of large scale tyranny?

[chaztikov]

@Akin42

Good point! I didn't know this, and indeed this is a question that should be addressed: what is the difference?

I don't support either, but in my opinion it depends on the circumstances which is worse. I would argue however that large-scale tyranny in this century, however, is far more of a threat to human diversity and a sense of individualism.

[LeifRunenritzer]

@chaztikov To Ireland's credit, they recognized women's rights and did not treat women as a whole as property.

[Gu3rr1lla]

@Akin42 slavery was legal because people wanted to be slaves! Slavery then was equal to slavery now - work. It was an honour price and they could leave or join slavery whenever they wanted. It was a way to prove their worth in a community .. when the rest of the community saw they were good "slaves" their honour price was increased meaning people would do more business with them (loan them more cows or whatever).

[bonfirejovi]

@Gu3rr1lla slaves dont get paid, workers do. also slavery wasnt voluntary

[Gu3rr1lla]

@bonfirejovi my point exactly! i think the people whom were considered "slaves" by you (?) or by others wasnt really slavery because these peoples on the lowest honour price were getting paid. Its like you going onto a farm and looking for land but had no fiat currency ("money") so you work off the land, back then land was money.. people mourned land going to waste because people looked after each other it was the only way to survive. unlike modern society where we are destroying each other.

[Gu3rr1lla]

@Gu3rr1lla to add to that point, you can move onto the next honour price once the community got to know you. the honour price wasnt written down it was what people thought of you and how well they knew you. if you committed a "crime" your honour price was degraded or sometimes thrown out. like the whole of ireland wasnt controlled.. there were only a couple of 100 clans.. there were freemen who lived outside towns but it was safer to be around others im sure.

[Gu3rr1lla]

@Gu3rr1lla look into Brehon Law i'd say you'd find it interesting

[bonfirejovi]

@Gu3rr1lla when were slaves being paid? i dont understand what you are talking about. land has always had value whether it be in the form of barter or money. working on land however is a service/ labour and while workers are remunerated for their 'labour' with capital, slaves were not. slaves are more like machinery, although they have a value they are not allowed to manage capital. also what is an 'honour price' exactly?

[Gu3rr1lla]

@bonfirejovi it wasnt slavery there was no such thing and if there was please provide me some evidence. If you dont know an honour price is then you obviously know nothing about society in historical ireland. I suggest you look it up. Society then was nothing like it is today. they didnt have government, they were responsible for themselves. They maintained land to grow crops so that they could LIVE! This was their capital.

[bonfirejovi]

@Gu3rr1lla no where did i claim to no anything about irish history. ok so there was no slavery. it was just people who had land and got all their resources from that land. it was just basic anarchism. so what happened if you didnt have land? how did you maintain yourself? and growing crops for yourself is not capital. any it doesnt sound like a society that would promote competition and therefore innovation.

[scottpastry]

@Gu3rr1lla "slavery was legal because people wanted to be slaves!"

what a crock.... lack of alternatives meant it was the best option for survival.

a sad reflection on this system.

[mechanicaltruck]

@Akin42 Describe this so called "slavery", which was "legal".

[drewmandan]

@Akin42

That's because they didn't know any better back then. If such a society existed today, there wouldn't be slaves. And that's not a problem. No slaves = more real workers = more prosperous economy. If these Irish knew that freeing the slaves would improve their lives in the long run, they would have done it.

[Nphyx]

@Akin42 the choice and free movement between many little tyrants tends to harness market forces, causing the tyrants to provide the best services for the cheapest and to treat their customers well. The tyrants shortly become businessmen, and the ones who are particularly foul find themselves out of customers. In large scale tyranny the tyrant is secure in keeping people like livestock, knowing that he can keep them caged up and do what he wants with them.

[Krupification]

@Akin42 I agree with Gu3rr1lla Akin.

[Swmorgan77]

@Akin42 Slavery has also been legal in most state-managed societies until very recently in human history. 

[Audiofalcon7]

@Akin42 Every society in history has had slavery. Only one society hasn't and that's only because we've yet to find evidence of it.

[CarajilloDulce]

@Audiofalcon7 Which society would that be?

[watermelonygoodness]

@Audiofalcon7 So?

[FuDuBuKu]

@Akin42

Voluntary Slavery is a far different creature than slavery by force.

[fisharmor]

@Akin42 Slavery is legal in the US. Yes, it is. Go read the 13th Amendment and the "except" part.

[metzger90]

@Akin42 At this time slavery was the norm around the world. So it was norma, but yeah slavery sucks.

[Gettinghitonattheban]

Just say it already. It was Anarchy.

[LeifRunenritzer]

Is this a reading from a book? What book would it be?

[xmattycorex]

@LeifRunenritzer either a reading from the archives at the Ludwig Von Mises institute. or from Murray Rothbards "a new liberty" in which he covers the exact some stuff.

[caveden]

I wonder how "libertarian" could *medieval* Ireland be... wasn't there slavery at the time in Ireland?

How was the situation of the non land owners? Did they even had access to Thuahs or the Brehon judicial system?

Which were the criteria for the appropriation of natural resources?

[robertwc82]

it may have not been perfect but at least it is a step in the right direction.

the other systems claimed that some are born destined to serve and others are born destined to rule and ancient people were easily fooled by superstition (as are modern people)

[strasheep]

ITS NOT A TOO-AWTH, its pronounced THU-AH

[LeifRunenritzer]

His pronunciation is right by Old Irish, as far as i know. My only complaint is that he pronounces the plural as "tu-A-tha", rather than TU-a-tha.

[Jandlers]

honestly?? jeeze all these interesting ideas are coming out of the woodwork...

now that society's collapsing!

[IamGulzow]

Funny how that happens isn't it?