Speak for yourself I am a liberal christian myself and I do speak about my faith,but I don't shove it down people throat nor did Jesus himself. He gave man freedom of will for a reason in which is a liberal view. You also say that in the english speaking world atheism is on an incline which is questionable its self. The most atheist countries such as China christian faith is rising fast. Love You and God Bless
You're making very broad sweeping generalizations about Liberal Christians and while these assumptions are yours I do not think they are objective nor accurate.
@Amadeus1066 Really? Ok I will bite... tell me when a Liberal Christian has put Biblical Teachings or the Church over that of a Liberal or Leftist Cause?
@Hunterkirk as Christians were are taught to Love one another as Christ Loved us. The highest Biblical teaching any Christian should live by is the Law of Love. Whether you call yourself a Liberal Christian or a Conservative Christian you must outwardly demonstrate the fruit of the spirit within your heart. I know many Christians both liberal and conservative who demonstrate that fruit of the spirit within their lives.
@Amadeus1066 Did Christ love sinning? You see you liberals throw away the idea of sin. Instead you define love as accepting any and all behavior liberals and progressive promote. You throw away Christ evicting the money changers and Christ telling people that they are all sinners in need of his redemption. Christ to a liberal is a mask for their liberalism. In fact you comment that the top law is love is telling as the top Biblical Law is in fact that God is the Only God and to worship him.
@Hunterkirk See this is where you're making broad bases sweeping judgments again. When you have a prejudice against a group it really is a doorway for hatred and a heart that becomes hardened. Nothing I will say can change your mind toward Liberal Christians.
@Amadeus1066 You have offered no evidence to change my mind. Your ignoring of Biblical law makes Christ's suffering for your sinners for your salvation meaningless. If there is no such thing as sin as you liberals promote then there is no reason for God. You do not love a drug adict by encouraging them to use drugs. Likewise you don't love sinners by encouraging their sins.
@Hunterkirk My basic point is your thinking style demonstrates prejudice. When you lump an entire group of people into one category then you are arguing based on stereotypes. Making sweeping judgments about any group and not recognizing that there is a great diversity within all social/political/ethnic/religious groups will lead to prejudicial and stereotypical views on said groups. When we think stereotypically we will have blinders on toward anything that doesn't fit our world view.
Some basic it is human nature to think in categories. Think about it a house is a house and good person or a bad personare all prejudgments. For example you make sweeping judgments on what a Conservative Christian believes and more importantly why they believe it. You presume they are acting out of hate not love. You presume they are outing out of bias and not out of faith. You ignore the numerous efforts they make to prove their beliefs are founded in faith and biblical teaching.
@Hunterkirk Please show me where in what I have responded to you did I ever said anything about what a Conservative Christian believes and more importantly why they believe it!?? What you said about my presumptions are not my presumptions! I know many dear Conservative Christian friends of mine who are quite loving.
@Amadeus1066 Very well implied and not said. Define "loving". I find a lot of very negative thing have been done in the name of love or in the name of the greater good. So define love. If you accept the concept that all are sinners (a basic Christian concept) and that the only way to heaven is to accept Christ as your lord and savior (another basic Christian concept) is it love to not tell people this. Most liberal christian make a point not to do so.
@Hunterkirk Now you're just being dishonest. You think I implied something when I did not. You're just projecting your bias on to me. This is the very point I am trying to make. You have a prejudice and project it on to all members of a group then you read and see what you want as it fits your bias. The sad thing is you cannot see that you're doing this!
@Amadeus1066 You have ignored my point with is people have to deal with other people as groups. As much as you would like to only deal with individuals the fact is you don't. Even you don't. Your defense that "sweeping statements" and such is meaningless and anti human thought. Generally what I claim of liberal Christians remains accurate and you have yet to provide evidence to disprove it. Now are their individual liberal Christian that don't fit it? Sure but they are a exception not the rule.
@Amadeus1066 You have ignored my point with is people have to deal with other people as groups. As much as you would like to only deal with individuals the fact is you don't. Even you don't. Your defense that "sweeping statements" and such is meaningless and anti human thought. Generally what I claim of liberal Christians remains accurate and you have yet to provide evidence to disprove it. Now are their individual liberal Christian that don't fit it? Sure but they are a exception not the rule.
@Amadeus1066 Again I will ask you to tell me one issue on which liberal Christians have taken a stance that is counter to the liberalism because the Bible thought differently. You have yet to offer any such instance. Now as a matter of good faith I will provide a issue on which Conservative Christians acted against their conservatism. Conservatism is small government movement and States rights, the Conservative Christians are promoting law designed to ban homosexual Christians. Now your turn.
@Amadeus1066 Now the bigger question would you support laws to restrict abortions? Or is it only talk? Additionally your position is not consistent with the actions of liberal christian groups who actively organize and promote "pro choice" activities. How do you distance yourself from your fellow liberals who take this position actively?
@Hunterkirk Yes I support tighter laws restricting abortions. How do I distance myself from fellow liberals? Honestly it is only through discussions on the internet where this issue comes up. In my life it isn't something that comes up in general conversation with either liberals or conservatives.
I think the biggest difference between types of christians is that liberal christians don't read the bible very much and the conservative christians read it in sunday school with someone there to help "interpret" it. But you're both pretty similar in that you don't know as much about your religion as do the people who live around you and put up with you.
@TheReaverOfDarkness I disagree. In fact in many of the conservative Christian Churches the reading of the Bible in total IS the worship and or is required by church order. Now as to having someone there to explain the text read, yes there is someone their who has spent much of their lives studying the Bible. Much like in school you have teacher in church you have then as well. Or are you against having teachers and experts on topics?
@Hunterkirk There's just a "small" difference between teachers at school and your "experts" at church. One of these is there to explain what a person can't comprehend, and the other is there to perform mental backflips for those who find logical fallacies.
@TheReaverOfDarkness I disagree. There is a lot of thing teachers teach that are founded largely on mental back flips. Things like the soft sciences - psychology, political science, race relations, environmentalism, ethics, law, and so on. In fact in few matters do they not engage in this kind of mental back flips to fit fades, trends, or abstract wishes. In truth since Christianity founds itself upon a single text it tends to be far more consistent then what most teachers teach.
If it weren't for "liberal" christians, conservatives would still be claiming that the earth is flat and the center of the universe, with stars being light shining thru from heaven.
And if Christianity hadn't evolved in this way, it would taken as seriously as witch doctors are, and lose far more believers.
@schmoborama If it weren't for "conservative" Christians, liberals would have no universities or higher education to be employed by. Also there would be NO science and the Muslims would have become the dominate technological society and Europe and impoverished backwater.
Rather simplistic and vague. You probably should have made a distinction between political liberalism/conservatism and religious liberalism/conservatism. They don't have to match at all. I consider myself a liberal politically and a moderate conservative religiously. I believe the Bible has the ultimate authority and I won't try to hide my religion (though I'm not loud about it either), yet at the same time I'm a pacifist, environmentalist, gun control law and universal health care supporter.
You only takjing about "social" liberal and conservatives....when there are a difference between the social and economic part. Libertarins are social liberals and fiscal conservatives...republicans for the most part are both social and economically conservative...but then you got the blue dogs who are social conservatives but are liberal on the economic issues.
I will have to say, that this video makes a broad blanket statement. I suppose I would be considered a "liberal" Christian, more of a moderate in my opinion, yet I am highly vocal about my faith, in fact soon after I meet people I mention my faith. Me and my friends debate religion all the time and I share my beliefs often, they know what I think and I know what they think. I learn from them, and I'm pretty sure they learn from me. There are strong Christians on both sides, as well as lapsed.
@Aleron20x In Europe, I have to say the increase of famous Atheists writing books are to blame, but also it's Catholicism and their doctrine. Catholicism isn't Christianity to a degree.
I will have to say, that this video makes a broad blanket statement. I suppose I would be considered a "liberal" Christian, more of a moderate in my opinion, yet I am highly vocal about my faith, in fact soon after I meet people I mention my faith. Me and my friends debate religion all the time and I share my beliefs often, they know what I think and I know what they think. I learn from them, and I'm pretty sure they learn from me. There are strong Christians on both sides, as well as lapsed.
I think you could also point out that in these secular countries that Islam is on a rise due to birth rates. The Mulsim community is reproducing quicker than the secular communities. I persoannly don't think secular thought can compete with islamic thought and would simply be taken over by islam. You already see it happening in europe all over.
@MusicCityMiracle God is not liberal, He is holy. God would chastise many professing Christians, liberal and conservative, for disobeying Him. We are not to be busybodys in other mens matters (1 Peter 4:15) so efforts by 'conservative' Christians to impose their values by law are wrong, we are not to covet or steal so efforts by 'liberal' Christians to create and expand state entitlement programs are wrong. The irony is that so many claim to be Christians yet don't really know Jesus at all.
@GoldenbanjoDJ Rubbish is anyone that denies that Jesus had a friend that was a prostitute, a murderer and a thief. Also, if you actually read the bible it says: "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
Never seen a "conservative" do that. Jesus Is Lord not a political label!
If I actually read the Bible? Thanks for that... Mate I've had too many conversations with people like you to know that I know my Bible pretty decently, whilst it is you lot who have the limited understanding. Conservatives can have friends such as these too... Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to change it. He said this, in fact. He tells her to leave her life of sin, not to continue on because they will be ok anyway. That is a CONSERVATIVE approach...
@GoldenbanjoDJ A liberal approach is to befriend a prostitute and scorn others who scorn her. Jesus was the master of showing+believing in the importance of liberty and equality. OOOPS! Thats also the definition of a Liberal. (Liberalism :from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom"[1]) is the belief in the importance of liberty and equality) Sorry to burst your bubble. But, the true point is not to "categorize" Jesus as anything, hoss. Can you dig it?
Ah no there is a difference between 'liberal' and 'libertarian'. You will find that liberalism promotes big government and lots and lots of interference ie. less freedom. Libertarians are for small governmnent and more FREEDOM to the people. So my bubble is in no way burst. Libertarian = freedom and equality. I as a conservative hold that principle (and in fact Libertarianism is usually a conservative trait...) and Jesus exhibits this too
But let's not get carried away.Jesus wasn't for letting everyone do what they want (that is liberal a trait).He went around being loud and controversial all over tht place.He didn't just come to sit in th corner & let everyone do whatever they wanted.He wud hav voted no on gay marriage, no on abortion etc.Jesus was the fulfillment of the law.Therefore,He would have employed the very conservative old testament laws.Jesus transcends political spheres.This doesn't mean there is no right way to be.
Conservativim is biblical. You can see it throughout. From the OT right the way through to Jesus and then Paul. Jesus was THE most controversial character in History for his claims that He is Christ and for the way he tried to turn people FROM sin instead of letting people indulge in it. The very essence of liberalism allows for acting without consequence. Jesus told people there would be consequence. Jesus is as far away from being a liberal as the east is from the west.
@GoldenbanjoDJ Jesus was laughed at, ridiculed and eventually crucified because he went against the "conservative ways" of the people because he saw similarities to both sides of the coin (Liberal). That is available for you to review somewhere between the pages of the first part to last part of the new testament. Jesus was beyond conservative my friend!
No they weren't 'conservative'. He went against them because they were unBIBLICAL. They were unscriptural. They had the law on their minds, not the love of God on their heart. HE was laughed at because he claimed to be the Christ, and he was crucified as such - because his teachings were BIBLICAL rather than the false religion that the religious leaders had turned the faith into. The scriptures are conservative.The people who Jesue went against were not following the scripture
@GoldenbanjoDJ Yes, they were "conservative". They were abiding by what the Torah had taught. That is a conservative. Both by law and religion, they followed it to the tee (conservative), Now, I know for a fact as you should,some of Jesus friends, some family and some of his community thought he was insane. This speaks volumes about why someone who thought outside the box and not conservative was crucified.
@MusicCityMiracle Right well all I'm now going to say is that I disagree. This discussion is going nowhere. I believe the same as you. That Jesus is after hearts.This much is clear. But I also hold true to the message that if I love Jesus,I keep his commands. Faith without deeds is definately dead, yet we must be careful not to focus on deeds so as to remove our eyes from God and his love.That's what the Jews did.They made a different faith,not a slant on one. I believe I'll see you in heaven
@MusicCityMiracle I agree the modern church has ruined many things. All religion is a joke in my eyes. But a relationship with Jesus is what matters. Jesus never wanted a religion, he wanted your heart. That's about as Liberal as you can get.
@GoldenbanjoDJ I agree the modern church has ruined many things. All religion is a joke in my eyes. But a relationship with Jesus is what matters. Jesus never wanted a religion, he wanted your heart. That's about as Liberal as you can get.
@GoldenbanjoDJ Yes, I will see you there. I believe we live the same, by the law, through works and faith. We just have a different view on words in the word. I originally stated I'm a Conservative Liberal Christian. I think thats a good place to be. Later.
Sir, would I be wrong in saying that spreading terms like "liberal christian" and "conservative christian" borders on making Christianity a subjective thing. Either you have submitted your heart to the Lord or you haven't. The depth of that submission ought not be made a point for public or political discussion.
Hello. Although your descriptions for both types of Christians are true for most people of each group, I must say one thing though, and this concerns the whole homosexuality issue. I say homosexuality isn't a sin. It isn't bad. I know that in the book of Leviticus, it states that homosexuality is an abomination, but there are so many other verses that say other things being abominations that conservative Christians don't seem to pay attention to as often.
@ifckmepudding Conservative Christian recognize a great number of sins that Liberal Christians refuse to accept. More then I suspect you know. The real thing about Christianity is that we are all sinners. The Conservative Christian normally isn't that they are not sinners. Conservative Christians recognize that they sin in countless ways and thus are unworthy of heaven.
The Real difference between them is the acceptance of being a sinner vs the refusal to address sin because of "tolerance".
@Hunterkirk, I wonder if you have ever MET a true L Christian! Google "LiberalsLikeJesus" (one word). What you describe are Christians embarrassed about their faith because of the terrible things that "Conservative Christians" have done to the name of "Christ". Here in the US, it's the "bible belt" that practiced slavery for centuries and is still fighting its vestiges by supporting the GOP's opposition to affirmative action. civil rights, universal education and healthcare, etc., etc. (MORE)
@Rayosun4 Yes and like I stated the Liberal Christian is very interested in making force their good works and take the funding for their good works from those who have not chosen to take part in the works of the Liberal Christian. The liberal puts his faith in government functions and not in God. Since their faith is in the government and not in God, and since Government is diverse the liberal sides with diversity of Gods will.
@Rayosun4 Take a look at the actual teachings of the Bible. There is much to be embarrassed about by those who have professed Christ yet practiced iniquity ... but then Jesus never knew them (Matthew 7). This includes those who support government sponsored racism (affirmative action), stealing and coveting (entitlement programs) and idolatry (looking to government rather than God and His righteousness ... see Psalm 146:3). Jesus was neither liberal nor conservative, He was HOLY!
And in Europe, the more educated people become about the horrendous things "the Church" has done throughout its 2000 year history, the less faith they can put in that institution - which has been represented by CONSERVATIVE, NOT LIBERAL "Christianity".- You CONSERVATIVES have destroyed the name of "Christianity" Google "Hitlersfaith" (one word). And now, you want to shame us Liberal Christians for not being able to persuade many that they can be both informed and Christian!
@Rayosun4 Funny thing is Hitler was a progressive. Conservatives believe in small government and generally reject the idea that man can perfect the world though government. Progressive and liberals worship the power of government and the power of man to fix the world and make it a "better place". Hitler believed he was perfecting the world, making it a better place.. he was a liberal.
So conservative Christianity isn't doing what you claim it is. Also the Nazi movement was largely anti religion
Consider what left and right truly stand for. I believe in equal rights for homosexual people. That has nothing to do with whether I believe homosexuality is sin. Homosexuality is a punishable sin, but what right do we have as christians to condemn others? Isn't depriving homosexual people of rights contradicting Jesus' message? Are gay people really more likely to be born again if they aren't ALLOWED to marry? We're ALLOWED premarital sex, but that is just as evil of a sin as homosexual sex.
@xerwaq@xerwaq First off I am for small government and as such see no role for government to be involved in marriage in the first place much less homosexual, polygamous, polyamerous or any other sexual practice you may one day demand rights for.
But to not tell a sinner that they are sinning is to damn them to hell. Just as you should tell the adulterer that they are doing wrong. What you call rights are what they call normalizing the practice or acceptance of sin as normal behavior.
I agree that we should tell homosexuals that they are sinners, in order that we may save their souls. But putting their actions under ball-and-chains will lead them towards hatred. Just because the law says they cannot get married doesn't mean they won't have a relationship. This is just how i feel though, I know a house divided against itself cannot stand. god bless you
@boomac62 Because If it was ok for a man to have a man as a partner than why did god make a woman instead of another man? And god Oblitirated 2 cities because they were infested with homosexuals. If he wants gays to enter heaven, then why Oblitirate those gay people? He also told abraham that if 1 person was righteous in those cities that he would not destroy it, but he did destroy it. Only the righteous can enter heaven. meaning they cant. And bible says god despises homosexuality.
@xerwaq Sorry friend but we are already too late. Atheists already hate us. Gays that have no affiliation with christians already dispise how we have suppressed their freedom. I know homosexuality is sin. But, I have no authority to suppress them. If god doesnt, who is my master, how do i as a servant think i have more authority then god to stop them? Now abortion is different. Because its murder, it involves another person who has no choice in the matter. That is a sin and should be a crime.
@Hunterkirk but it is not by telling them that they are sinning that they will receive salvation, so how does this justify us in admonishing them if they have not been saved in the first place?
There are two parts of salvation. Part one is recognizing that you need it. Part two is being told how you get it. The Law of the Bible tells use we are sinners and establishes the first part. The Gospel of the Bible examples the second. If you don't have the Law then Salvation is meaningless. After all if you are not a sinner then why would you need a Savior?
Homosexuality is one of many sins, we are all guilty of many different sins. To say it isn't a sin is to deny the Law.
@Hunterkirk I agree that homosexuality is a sin, but it is by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that we come to realize that there is sin in our lives. I suppose I can see the merit in telling somebody there is sin in their life if they are unaware of it, but I think that most gays live with the understanding that their sexual lifestyle is not conducive with being a follower of Christ.
@someguyupnorth "but I think that most gays live with the understanding that their sexual lifestyle is not conducive with being a follower of Christ."
This part I would have to strongly disagree with. There are many Liberal "Christian" groups seeking to actively support homosexuality including conducting marriages there of. The clear intent here is to tell the Homosexual that homosexuality isn't a sin and isn't a problem in their relationship with God. In fact it seems to lift it up as good.
The Bible is very specific about Grace and it is something you have to accept. To accept something you have to let go of the things that you did that were against it. I can not say I am against forest fires & set them at the same time. One can not have grace with out the rules that make the grace needed. The Bible is clear on that matter as well. It is also clear as to the punishment for those who reject God. You in your liberalism can not bring yourself to warn people & thus damn them.
If grace must be accepted then we are not saved by grace alone....however we ARE saved by grace alone. But anyway, we agree that medeval theoligical inventions, like a god that delights in the torture of the unsaved, (read the puritans on that subject) is not the God who John says "is Love"
People are not scared into faith ( the idea that God will torture you unless...) God is not like that, who would want to love/serve such a god. No, the God of the Bible is a God of love. Peace
People have abused any number of things for many different reason. Including Darwinism and Evolution in the form of Eugenics and the Nazi Genocide. Environmentalism and Zero Population. Socialism and their death camps and re-education camps. Liberalism and it oppression of free will by the "elite" who know what is best for you. Religion is no different.
But Grace is easy to understand as the Bible is clear on the matter. Jesus himself stated the laws still apply.
Matthew 5:17- 22 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
I guess we could quote scripture back and forth. I could put up any number of biblical verses seeming to deny eternal judgement but whats the point, we both know Jesus as Lord and Savior and trust in Him alone. I wish you peace on your journey.
Liberal christians, like myself, like sharing my beliefs. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ and i am a liberal. Conservatives love the lord but don't seem to love other people. I would say you,as a conservative, are close to being a pharasee, you follow the rules and judge others but have no love.
@boomac62 And you seem to forget that God has any rules at all. Instead you replace God with your own desires and your own human "reason" based upon whom the left has labeled as the victims of the moment. You have no love for people who work hard and don't complain or play the victim. In short like the UU used to be Christian you are happily running down the same run to meaninglessness. Which is why you and Atheist get along so well.
rules?....tell me what grace is if we HAVE to follow rules? We follow Christ out of love and a renewed life, we are born again. But we do no follow "rules"...only Jesus. And how do you know anthing about me, I'm a working guy, a military veteran with a 20 plus year marriage and three homeschooled kids who all love the Lord...I'm not in the UU, I was an elder in the PCA but now lean more towards the quakers...You are indeed quick to judge. Peace and love and I'll catch you in heaven brother!
@boomac62 Tell the worth of Grace if you are not a sinner and have no rules by which you would require Grace in the first place. PCA is happily on the way to becoming a new UU church. The only step you need to first take is to say you don't need Christ to be saved. Your leadership is coming dangerously close to doing just that. After that your faith and grace and even Jesus becomes meaningless and all you are left with is the liberalism which is your true faith.
I challenge you on the UU/PCA comment. Name one (1) example of the PCA moving in the direction of the UU's? They don't even allow women elders for Pete's sake!( one of the reasons I left the PCA)....I think you fear to much and rest in grace to little.remember you, my friend, are not saved by works. Peace!
Jesus is the only way and He accomplished salvation on the cross. " ...for just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." Rom 5:18-19... This certainly asserts the salvation of all sinners. ...just saying.
. Anyway, it's a rather big subject ,and as you know for the first 500 years Universalism was
I don't know the eternal fate of the person who rejects God, I do believe there is a judgement and cleansing....i ,of course, reject the medieval idea of eternal torment. As for the laws, we are under none if we can accept that. now if we were under the law what would Grace mean? grace covers all our sins, and yes we do all sin. In hearts,minds and body, BUT while once dead in those sins we now have life. So ,yes, even if we sin God still loves us and has allready forgiven us....It is Finished.
@boomac62 We are under no laws? So I can be a mass murderer and reject Jesus and reject forgiveness and YOUR understanding I will be saved? We can break every rule in the Bible and still be saved even if we never seek forgiveness for these sins we actively engage in? So how are you different from the UU's as you can do whatever you want and there are no rules and everyone will be saved?
"the conservative christian doesn't do that. If the bible says it's wrong, it's wrong."
Oh yeah? Do you pork? How about shrimp? Do you think it's wrong for a rape victim to be forced to marry her rapist?
If so, you're a sinner and committing abominations against God, and will most likely go to hell unless you repent from these wicked beliefs. Do with that what you will.
You can veer off into attacks or you can address my comments to your original questions.
When John's gospel has Jesus being crucified on Passover and the synoptic gospels have him being crucified on another day entirely, then something other than literalism is going on. When Mark has Jesus blessing the "poor" and Matthew changes that to blessing the "poor IN SPIRIT" a different sort of truth rather than a literal truth is involved here. Holding onto literalism boxes Christianity in.
By the way, your guessing at my motives and trying to read my mind ("It makes you angry as hell...etc.") is not only ineffective, it is silly. That seems to be the same way many believers evaluate Scripture. Instead of finding out what the authors were trying to say THEN and then trying to apply THAT to the way things are NOW you mix the text up in one big soup and use the Bible almost as a "Ouija Board" or pick out certain ingredients to string along into your own necklace.
First off you need to define "literalism" The fact that the different gospels have slightly different account or focus means it is even more likely the truth as in every eye witness cases you will give different accounts from different witnesses.
When it happened is not as import as it happened, in which all are in agreement. Now as to understanding the Bible there are three or four ways one can review the Bible. Historical, Literal, Translation, and Cultural. It is best to use ALL four.
The "three or four ways" are traditions of MEN. Show me where.There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that hermeneutic has to be used. The Baptists have long had a doctrine called "the priesthood of the believer." ANYONE who follows Jesus can interpret the Bible in their own way.
Incorrect. They are studies of the Bible in context of time, history, and cultures. The focus remains the message of the Bible and not the ways of man. It considers "what was happening when the events in the Bible took place?"
I get the impress you spend very little time studying Bible.
"Bible... pick out certain ingredients to string along into your own necklace. "
If you are the person designing the "necklace" then it is your wishes that you are following and not Gods. So in effect you are your own God and the God of the Bible is just one of many tools you pick from to support things you have already decided you want.
So if you want to worship yourself feel free to do so. I would rather study the Bible to seek God's will then use the Bible to support mine.
How many Christians who supported burning men women and children old and young in Iraq actually believe in loving their enemies? How many judgemental Christian scolds have paid notice of Jesus' belief that God "sends his sun to shine on both the evil AND the good and sends rain on BOTH the just and the unjust?" How many believe Jesus when he counselled to call NO MAN on earth your father? Those who fear a judgemental god--do they listen to Jesus when he said "Who made ME a judge?"
Now you have jump to the standard anti religion anti Christianity argument made by those who hate Christianity and Religion. And yes you will be banned for doing this as I don't allow bigots in this forum & you just showed yourself to be a anti christian bigot.
Yes some have used religion to support very secular goals of conquest or abuse. Just as some use science and atheism to do the same. Some have misrepresented historical events to demonize religion who are political foes... see liberals.
As a liberal, I notice that the way religious conservatives punish those of their own who deviate from the Righteous Path tells me everything I need to know about Christian tolerance. Jesus came preaching the coming of the Kingdom of God. What came instead was the church. If Constantine had not converted, the faith would not have become an empire. The power of empire is in control and so letting Jesus actually speak for himself is dangerous for any bureaucratic salvation machine.
"Christian tolerance" isn't the active supporting of sinful behavior, which seems to be the liberal Christians definition. Jesus didn't go to the adulterer and say "I love you now how can I help you hook up with another woman?". He did not go to the prostitute and say "I love you and let me help you be a prostitute."
What you guys seem only focused on is the Good News of salvation but you fear to tell ANYONE that they are sinners or ask anyone to stop sinning.
Forgiveness, empathy & the heart's compassion are all different than "actively supporting sinful behavior."
Read some other takes on Christianity. Remember--ever since 325 AD the faith got hijacked by power and empire for the first time. Study how the Good News of the KIngdom of God (THAT's what Jesus came preaching) became the Emperor Constantine's New Rules for living in Pax Romana.
You are misinformed if you believe some liberal Christians are afraid to confront sin. You really are.
"Forgiveness, empathy & the heart's compassion are all different than "actively supporting sinful behavior."
Your right but you can not claim to be forgiving something when you are actively supporting. How can you claim to be forgiving of prostitution and be the pimp? How can you claim be forgiving of adultery and actively say it is ok?
Your misinformed about forgiveness and true caring.Caring mean you want the best for people and that can not include them wallowing in sin.
You are still trapped in the left-brained, "either/or" paradigm. For Christians, Constantine quashed the parable & turned the Way into the Roman Empire. The Industrial Revolution further hypnotized us into thinking there is a difference between subject & object & made us believe morality and conciousness is contained within the human skull. The literal world of the Bible's gone.
Go to any meeting of AL-ANON. And particiapte. You'll unravel the mystery of forgiveness AND support.
And here is the root problem with you liberal "christians". For you your liberalism IS God's will and the Bible is at best a book to be picked through to find the things that can be used or twisted to support your liberalism.
It makes you angry as hell when those who seek God's will & not their own turn to the Bible and adhere to it to the best of their ability.
In short a liberal christian is a liberal first and for most, christian is second at best.
I agree with Markus, the more time you spend spreading faith the less time you spend spreading good work. Faith has its place, but lets be honest, faith doesn't shelter the homeless or feed the starving.
One could also argue that it isn't the liberal christians want to hide their faith, just that they feel their faith is personal and wish to keep it that way.
If I have a saturday afternoon to help the church and i spend that time handing out pamphlets to advance my religion, i WONT have the time to help people
...liberal Europe. According to the CIA factbook, Germany is 60% Christian, the United Kingdom is 71% Christian, and France (the most liberal of them all) is only 4% atheist. Now you could say these stats are false, but that would be calling the CIA liars.... haha, I'm just kidding.
This argument is fundamentally offbase, because how someone conducts themself in daily life and how they view the role of religion in government are not mutually inclusive. Just because someone believes religion should not have a role in government does not mean they aren't vocal about their religion in day to day life. This can also work vice versa. I'm a liberal Christian and I share my faith all the time. Now, you base a lot of your argument on the atheist state that is...
I'm a liberal Christian and ALL of my fellow Christians cherry-pick. You can't be a Christian without cherry picking the Bible to at least some degree. >.>
We're not hiding, we just not being bushy.....quite unlike conservatives. If we're in a room of people whom we know are okay with the conversation, we will have intelligible, and yes LIBERAL, conversations pertaining to Jesus Christ.
Obambi is an extreme hard-left liberal. He will go into defeat in 2012 when Palin becomes POTUS for 8 years and then her successor will be another white female conservative like Palin and she will lead for another 8 years and this cycle will keep on going and going and going. The Democraps WILL NEVER win the white house again after 2012!
Making me laugh! :D It's the conservative republicans who screwed up the US...it's your party that lead us to the recession were in! Democrats will have the presidency for years to come! Obama has already done a wonderful job, and he's only been in office a few months!!! Go Obama! Go Democrat's! Go liberal's!
I am a white Liberal Christian and my family are white Conservative Christians. I will tell you the difference. They are racist serial killers and I am not. That's the differance.
I'm a Liberal Democrat Christian, and I share my faith profoundly. I can't even stand it when people Blasphemy, because I always feel like I must correct them. But due to being a follower of Jesus Christ, I don't have to be a full-blown Conservative Republican. Politics is only a matter of Opinion, and while being pro-choice, that doesn't mean I "support" Abortion. I think we need to stop picking out certain liberals who are corrupt and saying "every liberal has bad intentions!".
So you are saying you are ok with people killing their unborn child as a justified choice? Pro-Choice would mean that you would call someone whom choose to have a child pro-choice. Truth is it has ALWAYS been pro-abortion and the not having the abortion option was never promoted by "pro-choice" people.
Outside of that yes Conservative Christianity ISNT being a Republican, it is just that the Republicans are the only party that will listen to us.
I understand where your coming from, and I'm responding not with an attitude of hate nor anger, but just to clarify where I as an individual stand.
I am pro-choice, and I do understand the effects of the pro-choice position. I realize that Abortions happen under that stance, but I do not believe, that as far as personal decisions, the Government should tell us how to make them. Just like sin, sin exists, but because the option is there, doesn't mean you have to give into it and Sin.
Liberal means Tolerant, not "anything goes" . Do you think Christ was intolerant? Tell me, did you vote for Bush? in 2004? after the war based on lies started ? If so, turn in your crucifix and rosary beeds, It aint "anything goes", You follow Christ's teachings or you don't.
So you tolerate sinful behavior? What exactly are you "tolerating" and how do you define toleration... does in me you actively support and promote sinful behavior or things that are counter to the teachings in the Bible?
Which carries the day when you have to choose between the Bible and your Tolerance? Yes in that case the Liberal Christian will take tolerance over the Bible any day.
Yes, he called out the scam artist and kicked them out of a place of worship. Ho would you like it if drug dealers moved into your house? No one should tolerate scam artist, they are thieves, like the Pharisees.
The difference between Liberal Christians and Conservative Christians is that Conservative Christians aren't actually Christians at all. Christians who believe in the teachings of Christ wouldn't Hate Social programs that help the poor, or hate Gays, or support a war of choice based on lies, CHRIST ISN'T A REPUBLICAN! Christ would be angered by the hypocrisy of the Farisee, er.. I mean.. the Christian Right.
"Liberal means Tolerant" Yet you just showed glaring INTOLERANCE toward Conservative Christians. So I guess your a hypocrit.
Whom said Republicans hate helping the poor? The difference between the Democrat and the Republican is that Democrats help the poor remain poor, while the Republicans help the poor become the middle class.
So the Bible lies when it speaks out against homosexuality? So if the Bible is of NO value to you in understanding God what source do you draw from? The DNC?
Where are you getting your statistics from? I'm very much liberal and always talk about my faith. As for your assesment that conservatives are more on the faith side as opposed to works, Clint Eastwood once said, "Faith ain't worth spit without works."
Liberals (people with the whole, "anything goes" attitude) do not like to talk about their faith for the most part. They don't want to "offend" anyone. I see it all the time. You just happen to be an exception. I don't know you, but I'll take your word for it.
If you listen to the part in the video, somewhere in the middle he says how conservatives are very much intersted in works. But they also make it a point to TALK about it.
Maybe you're a little more conservative than you thought.
There's a fundamental flaw in labeling someone lib or con. If I'm going to label someone as conservative, then they're aligned with that man that went in to that church last week and shot everyone up because they were liberal. If you disagree with that man, then can i label you and assume you have some liberal in you? You can see the fallacy in this rational.
I understand what you're saying. However, aligning all conservatives with the shooter from last week is stupid. It's like saying every liberal is a communist, which is not true. But labeling can be necessary as it gives an understanding to peoples' stances in situations. I am conservative b/c of my stances and beliefs, if I disagree w/ another conservative, that's something else.
Besides, killing is against the Bible. How conservative is this man anyway? Conservative as he says? Or crazy?
Sadly, that man was aligned with the majority of conservatives who fully supported a war in Iraq. Yet the "Thou shall not kill," principle did not apply. By labeling some as "conservative," to understand their stance, I still don't understand Conservatives. Either you follow scriptures or you don't. God didn't say, "Thou shall not kill...but it's ok in certain situations." Can't have it both ways. "By works of the law no flesh will be justified in his own sight." Romans 3:20
Nice try but the numbers dont support that. In fact con. Christians give more money to the need per their income then the liberal christian groups. Lib Christians groups tend to want government to tax people & use the taxes to help people in government programs then to reach into their own pcokets. In short they hoard far more then cons. do.
Torture is by defination & it is the defination that we disagree on.
and why should that matter? Liberals scare me they thnk government is the solution to everything. At least the conservative christians belief dont directly influance or control your life.
would a whole group of people who still believe the earth is flat, and that gravity doesnt exist scare you?..the scary part is that conservative christian beliefs do affect my life...From those who advocate intelligent design as a science, to those with a huge influence in presidential elections. And to say that liberal think that the gov is the solution to EVERYTHING is quite a general statement. I am a liberal and I dont think they should be in everything
Show me the Conservative Christian group that wants evolution out of the school system. All they want is their views included in the public system as well. Are you against inclusion & representation?
This isnt the argument. Liberals are happy if Conservative Christian groups want to include their views in the school system under religion/philosophy..etc. My problem is including it as a science. Religion is not a science. If intelligent design had the same scientific backing, then I am all for making it science. We cant be teaching kids the earth is 6000 years old as science when evidence says otherwise.
Are you against the inclusion of the spectrum of faiths?...Science is taught in schools because it is VALID. Christianity is for Sunday-School not for public school.
I am not but clearly you are. I think the school should be representative of the populations that go to them. If the majority of the youths in the community are Hindu I have no problem with hindu stuff in the school.
The trouble with your arguement is that you come from the view that religion is less equal then other beliefs. Thusly in your mind the religious shouldnt be given the same rights as other... in short it is a form of bigotry.
Liberals want to tell us what kind of cars we can drive, where we can live, what kind of homes we can live in, what kind of energy sources we can use, what our children can learn, what we are allowed to think (hate crime laws), what we are allowed to say (political correctness), whom will be represented and whom will not, etc. They want their fingers in EVERY part of our lives.
I am a liberal and I dont want you to tell you what to do. I want you to do whatever you want as long as it is in a responsible manner and does not infringe upon me. The problem is that if you drive a car spewing off poisonous gas, I think I have the right to ask you to stop. I think the energy sources we use is VERY important in progessing the country.
So you DO want to control what other people drive "car spewing off poisonous gas", you do want to control how other people live, and you do want a say in everyone elses lives.
So YOUR far worse in infringement in others live then any Conservative ever was.. I thank you for proving me right.
If you support the "Man Made Global Warming" efforts, and support "Zero Population Growth", and support "Hate Crime Laws", and support "Diversity Training" then you by defination want your finger in my life and the lives of countless others.
yeah, so youre saying basically that during world war 2, that the allies should have taken their finger out of Hitlers business? Extreme Libertarianism leads to a dog eat dog mentality, if you wish to live by the life philosophy of the animals move to a zoo.
Where did I say "Extreme Libertarianism"? Small government is a call for limited government not NO government. Also I would point out Hitler declared war on us. The basic job of government is to protect it people against nations that seek to harm us... thusly attacking German and Japan was self defense as they anounced the war first and in Japans case attacked first.
a) Laws regulateing what cars must have in them and what milage they must have... thusly making the muscle cars all but illegal in the very near future.
b) "You can say whatever you like" LOL
c) "If your upwind neighbor..." Makeing excuses to intevern in the private lives of others I see.
a) What does 'all but illegal' mean? Either something is or isn't legal.You can OWN any virtually any car you want, however if you want to drive your car on PUBLICLY OWNED roads, then you have to follow the laws. For instance, if someone was driving a car that didn't have brakes rammed you, would you not sue?
b)"LOL" is for teenage girls-as that is the best 'refute' you can give I assume you have conceded this point.
c)What is more 'intervening of one's private life' than Hog Shit?
a) You can't own a car if the government make making such a car illegal because it does not meet some standard for fuel efficiencey.
b) You try to say whatever you want in the public forum. People have been arested for hate crimes because of what they said not what they did.
c) I understand you have a problem with private property. I think I should have a say on what colors you paint your house and what you plant in your yard because it is something I have to see.
Europeans look at American religions and it seems that many of the preachers raise a great deal of money and much of this is diverted to give them a very high standard of living. We contrast this with the evry simple life Jesus lived and the contrast appears strange.
Yet many of the most outspoke American Religious groups are not rich. In fact in America most of the Big money rich churches are more liberal then conservative.
Interesting; which type of Christians in America take the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" and use it to oppose the death penalty. For European Christians this commandment applies to abortion, euthenasia and death penalty. If I don't reply immediately it's because church is in 45 minutes.
There is much debate on that commandment. Some say it translates to "Thou Shall Not Kill" others say the translation is "Thou Shall Not Commit Murder". The Bible translations are split down the middle.
I think the commandment is "Thou shall not commit murder" as in the old testiment God ordered the Jews to go to battle.
Speak for yourself I am a liberal christian myself and I do speak about my faith,but I don't shove it down people throat nor did Jesus himself. He gave man freedom of will for a reason in which is a liberal view. You also say that in the english speaking world atheism is on an incline which is questionable its self. The most atheist countries such as China christian faith is rising fast. Love You and God Bless
theAspirit29 1 week ago
@theAspirit29 Tell me when as Liberal Christian you put Biblical Teachings or the Church over that of a Liberal or Leftist Cause?
Hunterkirk 1 week ago
You're making very broad sweeping generalizations about Liberal Christians and while these assumptions are yours I do not think they are objective nor accurate.
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 Really? Ok I will bite... tell me when a Liberal Christian has put Biblical Teachings or the Church over that of a Liberal or Leftist Cause?
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Hunterkirk as Christians were are taught to Love one another as Christ Loved us. The highest Biblical teaching any Christian should live by is the Law of Love. Whether you call yourself a Liberal Christian or a Conservative Christian you must outwardly demonstrate the fruit of the spirit within your heart. I know many Christians both liberal and conservative who demonstrate that fruit of the spirit within their lives.
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 Did Christ love sinning? You see you liberals throw away the idea of sin. Instead you define love as accepting any and all behavior liberals and progressive promote. You throw away Christ evicting the money changers and Christ telling people that they are all sinners in need of his redemption. Christ to a liberal is a mask for their liberalism. In fact you comment that the top law is love is telling as the top Biblical Law is in fact that God is the Only God and to worship him.
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Hunterkirk See this is where you're making broad bases sweeping judgments again. When you have a prejudice against a group it really is a doorway for hatred and a heart that becomes hardened. Nothing I will say can change your mind toward Liberal Christians.
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 You have offered no evidence to change my mind. Your ignoring of Biblical law makes Christ's suffering for your sinners for your salvation meaningless. If there is no such thing as sin as you liberals promote then there is no reason for God. You do not love a drug adict by encouraging them to use drugs. Likewise you don't love sinners by encouraging their sins.
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Hunterkirk My basic point is your thinking style demonstrates prejudice. When you lump an entire group of people into one category then you are arguing based on stereotypes. Making sweeping judgments about any group and not recognizing that there is a great diversity within all social/political/ethnic/religious groups will lead to prejudicial and stereotypical views on said groups. When we think stereotypically we will have blinders on toward anything that doesn't fit our world view.
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
Some basic it is human nature to think in categories. Think about it a house is a house and good person or a bad personare all prejudgments. For example you make sweeping judgments on what a Conservative Christian believes and more importantly why they believe it. You presume they are acting out of hate not love. You presume they are outing out of bias and not out of faith. You ignore the numerous efforts they make to prove their beliefs are founded in faith and biblical teaching.
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Hunterkirk Please show me where in what I have responded to you did I ever said anything about what a Conservative Christian believes and more importantly why they believe it!?? What you said about my presumptions are not my presumptions! I know many dear Conservative Christian friends of mine who are quite loving.
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 Very well implied and not said. Define "loving". I find a lot of very negative thing have been done in the name of love or in the name of the greater good. So define love. If you accept the concept that all are sinners (a basic Christian concept) and that the only way to heaven is to accept Christ as your lord and savior (another basic Christian concept) is it love to not tell people this. Most liberal christian make a point not to do so.
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Hunterkirk Now you're just being dishonest. You think I implied something when I did not. You're just projecting your bias on to me. This is the very point I am trying to make. You have a prejudice and project it on to all members of a group then you read and see what you want as it fits your bias. The sad thing is you cannot see that you're doing this!
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 You have ignored my point with is people have to deal with other people as groups. As much as you would like to only deal with individuals the fact is you don't. Even you don't. Your defense that "sweeping statements" and such is meaningless and anti human thought. Generally what I claim of liberal Christians remains accurate and you have yet to provide evidence to disprove it. Now are their individual liberal Christian that don't fit it? Sure but they are a exception not the rule.
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 You have ignored my point with is people have to deal with other people as groups. As much as you would like to only deal with individuals the fact is you don't. Even you don't. Your defense that "sweeping statements" and such is meaningless and anti human thought. Generally what I claim of liberal Christians remains accurate and you have yet to provide evidence to disprove it. Now are their individual liberal Christian that don't fit it? Sure but they are a exception not the rule.
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 Again I will ask you to tell me one issue on which liberal Christians have taken a stance that is counter to the liberalism because the Bible thought differently. You have yet to offer any such instance. Now as a matter of good faith I will provide a issue on which Conservative Christians acted against their conservatism. Conservatism is small government movement and States rights, the Conservative Christians are promoting law designed to ban homosexual Christians. Now your turn.
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Hunterkirk I can only speak for myself but as a Liberal Christian I do not support abortion on demand.
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
@Amadeus1066 Now the bigger question would you support laws to restrict abortions? Or is it only talk? Additionally your position is not consistent with the actions of liberal christian groups who actively organize and promote "pro choice" activities. How do you distance yourself from your fellow liberals who take this position actively?
Hunterkirk 5 months ago
@Hunterkirk Yes I support tighter laws restricting abortions. How do I distance myself from fellow liberals? Honestly it is only through discussions on the internet where this issue comes up. In my life it isn't something that comes up in general conversation with either liberals or conservatives.
Amadeus1066 5 months ago
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vechorik 4 months ago
I think the biggest difference between types of christians is that liberal christians don't read the bible very much and the conservative christians read it in sunday school with someone there to help "interpret" it. But you're both pretty similar in that you don't know as much about your religion as do the people who live around you and put up with you.
TheReaverOfDarkness 9 months ago
@TheReaverOfDarkness I disagree. In fact in many of the conservative Christian Churches the reading of the Bible in total IS the worship and or is required by church order. Now as to having someone there to explain the text read, yes there is someone their who has spent much of their lives studying the Bible. Much like in school you have teacher in church you have then as well. Or are you against having teachers and experts on topics?
Hunterkirk 9 months ago
@Hunterkirk There's just a "small" difference between teachers at school and your "experts" at church. One of these is there to explain what a person can't comprehend, and the other is there to perform mental backflips for those who find logical fallacies.
I'll let you figure out which is which.
TheReaverOfDarkness 9 months ago
@TheReaverOfDarkness I disagree. There is a lot of thing teachers teach that are founded largely on mental back flips. Things like the soft sciences - psychology, political science, race relations, environmentalism, ethics, law, and so on. In fact in few matters do they not engage in this kind of mental back flips to fit fades, trends, or abstract wishes. In truth since Christianity founds itself upon a single text it tends to be far more consistent then what most teachers teach.
Hunterkirk 9 months ago
If it weren't for "liberal" christians, conservatives would still be claiming that the earth is flat and the center of the universe, with stars being light shining thru from heaven.
And if Christianity hadn't evolved in this way, it would taken as seriously as witch doctors are, and lose far more believers.
schmoborama 9 months ago
@schmoborama If it weren't for "conservative" Christians, liberals would have no universities or higher education to be employed by. Also there would be NO science and the Muslims would have become the dominate technological society and Europe and impoverished backwater.
Hunterkirk 9 months ago
Rather simplistic and vague. You probably should have made a distinction between political liberalism/conservatism and religious liberalism/conservatism. They don't have to match at all. I consider myself a liberal politically and a moderate conservative religiously. I believe the Bible has the ultimate authority and I won't try to hide my religion (though I'm not loud about it either), yet at the same time I'm a pacifist, environmentalist, gun control law and universal health care supporter.
AquaExecution 9 months ago
You only takjing about "social" liberal and conservatives....when there are a difference between the social and economic part. Libertarins are social liberals and fiscal conservatives...republicans for the most part are both social and economically conservative...but then you got the blue dogs who are social conservatives but are liberal on the economic issues.
InFromTheVoid 1 year ago
I will have to say, that this video makes a broad blanket statement. I suppose I would be considered a "liberal" Christian, more of a moderate in my opinion, yet I am highly vocal about my faith, in fact soon after I meet people I mention my faith. Me and my friends debate religion all the time and I share my beliefs often, they know what I think and I know what they think. I learn from them, and I'm pretty sure they learn from me. There are strong Christians on both sides, as well as lapsed.
Aleron20x 1 year ago
@Aleron20x In Europe, I have to say the increase of famous Atheists writing books are to blame, but also it's Catholicism and their doctrine. Catholicism isn't Christianity to a degree.
jshjamaar 1 year ago
I will have to say, that this video makes a broad blanket statement. I suppose I would be considered a "liberal" Christian, more of a moderate in my opinion, yet I am highly vocal about my faith, in fact soon after I meet people I mention my faith. Me and my friends debate religion all the time and I share my beliefs often, they know what I think and I know what they think. I learn from them, and I'm pretty sure they learn from me. There are strong Christians on both sides, as well as lapsed.
Aleron20x 1 year ago
I think you could also point out that in these secular countries that Islam is on a rise due to birth rates. The Mulsim community is reproducing quicker than the secular communities. I persoannly don't think secular thought can compete with islamic thought and would simply be taken over by islam. You already see it happening in europe all over.
ocpud2999 1 year ago
Irony is a conservative group or mindest that worships a Liberal God.
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle God is not liberal, He is holy. God would chastise many professing Christians, liberal and conservative, for disobeying Him. We are not to be busybodys in other mens matters (1 Peter 4:15) so efforts by 'conservative' Christians to impose their values by law are wrong, we are not to covet or steal so efforts by 'liberal' Christians to create and expand state entitlement programs are wrong. The irony is that so many claim to be Christians yet don't really know Jesus at all.
BondiHarry 11 months ago
i'm definately a conservative Christian
poorsmellyyetiess 1 year ago
I am a Conservative Liberal Christian. It's complicated know but it's who I am.
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
Liberal Atheist vs Conservative Atheist?
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
the difference between 'liberal Christianity' and 'conservative Christianity' is one word - 'Christian'.
There is only one type of Christian. Conservative.
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
@GoldenbanjoDJ Jesus was no conservative.
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle
I'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish.
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
@GoldenbanjoDJ Rubbish is anyone that denies that Jesus had a friend that was a prostitute, a murderer and a thief. Also, if you actually read the bible it says: "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
Never seen a "conservative" do that. Jesus Is Lord not a political label!
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle
If I actually read the Bible? Thanks for that... Mate I've had too many conversations with people like you to know that I know my Bible pretty decently, whilst it is you lot who have the limited understanding. Conservatives can have friends such as these too... Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to change it. He said this, in fact. He tells her to leave her life of sin, not to continue on because they will be ok anyway. That is a CONSERVATIVE approach...
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
@GoldenbanjoDJ A liberal approach is to befriend a prostitute and scorn others who scorn her. Jesus was the master of showing+believing in the importance of liberty and equality. OOOPS! Thats also the definition of a Liberal. (Liberalism :from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom"[1]) is the belief in the importance of liberty and equality) Sorry to burst your bubble. But, the true point is not to "categorize" Jesus as anything, hoss. Can you dig it?
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle
Ah no there is a difference between 'liberal' and 'libertarian'. You will find that liberalism promotes big government and lots and lots of interference ie. less freedom. Libertarians are for small governmnent and more FREEDOM to the people. So my bubble is in no way burst. Libertarian = freedom and equality. I as a conservative hold that principle (and in fact Libertarianism is usually a conservative trait...) and Jesus exhibits this too
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
But let's not get carried away.Jesus wasn't for letting everyone do what they want (that is liberal a trait).He went around being loud and controversial all over tht place.He didn't just come to sit in th corner & let everyone do whatever they wanted.He wud hav voted no on gay marriage, no on abortion etc.Jesus was the fulfillment of the law.Therefore,He would have employed the very conservative old testament laws.Jesus transcends political spheres.This doesn't mean there is no right way to be.
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
Conservativim is biblical. You can see it throughout. From the OT right the way through to Jesus and then Paul. Jesus was THE most controversial character in History for his claims that He is Christ and for the way he tried to turn people FROM sin instead of letting people indulge in it. The very essence of liberalism allows for acting without consequence. Jesus told people there would be consequence. Jesus is as far away from being a liberal as the east is from the west.
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
@GoldenbanjoDJ Jesus was laughed at, ridiculed and eventually crucified because he went against the "conservative ways" of the people because he saw similarities to both sides of the coin (Liberal). That is available for you to review somewhere between the pages of the first part to last part of the new testament. Jesus was beyond conservative my friend!
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle
No they weren't 'conservative'. He went against them because they were unBIBLICAL. They were unscriptural. They had the law on their minds, not the love of God on their heart. HE was laughed at because he claimed to be the Christ, and he was crucified as such - because his teachings were BIBLICAL rather than the false religion that the religious leaders had turned the faith into. The scriptures are conservative.The people who Jesue went against were not following the scripture
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
@GoldenbanjoDJ Yes, they were "conservative". They were abiding by what the Torah had taught. That is a conservative. Both by law and religion, they followed it to the tee (conservative), Now, I know for a fact as you should,some of Jesus friends, some family and some of his community thought he was insane. This speaks volumes about why someone who thought outside the box and not conservative was crucified.
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle Right well all I'm now going to say is that I disagree. This discussion is going nowhere. I believe the same as you. That Jesus is after hearts.This much is clear. But I also hold true to the message that if I love Jesus,I keep his commands. Faith without deeds is definately dead, yet we must be careful not to focus on deeds so as to remove our eyes from God and his love.That's what the Jews did.They made a different faith,not a slant on one. I believe I'll see you in heaven
GoldenbanjoDJ 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle I agree the modern church has ruined many things. All religion is a joke in my eyes. But a relationship with Jesus is what matters. Jesus never wanted a religion, he wanted your heart. That's about as Liberal as you can get.
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@GoldenbanjoDJ I agree the modern church has ruined many things. All religion is a joke in my eyes. But a relationship with Jesus is what matters. Jesus never wanted a religion, he wanted your heart. That's about as Liberal as you can get.
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@GoldenbanjoDJ Yes, I will see you there. I believe we live the same, by the law, through works and faith. We just have a different view on words in the word. I originally stated I'm a Conservative Liberal Christian. I think thats a good place to be. Later.
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
Sir, would I be wrong in saying that spreading terms like "liberal christian" and "conservative christian" borders on making Christianity a subjective thing. Either you have submitted your heart to the Lord or you haven't. The depth of that submission ought not be made a point for public or political discussion.
manictatter 1 year ago
@manictatter Amen on this!
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@Hunterkirk
Hello. Although your descriptions for both types of Christians are true for most people of each group, I must say one thing though, and this concerns the whole homosexuality issue. I say homosexuality isn't a sin. It isn't bad. I know that in the book of Leviticus, it states that homosexuality is an abomination, but there are so many other verses that say other things being abominations that conservative Christians don't seem to pay attention to as often.
ifckmepudding 1 year ago
@ifckmepudding Conservative Christian recognize a great number of sins that Liberal Christians refuse to accept. More then I suspect you know. The real thing about Christianity is that we are all sinners. The Conservative Christian normally isn't that they are not sinners. Conservative Christians recognize that they sin in countless ways and thus are unworthy of heaven.
The Real difference between them is the acceptance of being a sinner vs the refusal to address sin because of "tolerance".
Hunterkirk 1 year ago
@Hunterkirk, I wonder if you have ever MET a true L Christian! Google "LiberalsLikeJesus" (one word). What you describe are Christians embarrassed about their faith because of the terrible things that "Conservative Christians" have done to the name of "Christ". Here in the US, it's the "bible belt" that practiced slavery for centuries and is still fighting its vestiges by supporting the GOP's opposition to affirmative action. civil rights, universal education and healthcare, etc., etc. (MORE)
Rayosun4 1 year ago
@Rayosun4 Yes and like I stated the Liberal Christian is very interested in making force their good works and take the funding for their good works from those who have not chosen to take part in the works of the Liberal Christian. The liberal puts his faith in government functions and not in God. Since their faith is in the government and not in God, and since Government is diverse the liberal sides with diversity of Gods will.
Hunterkirk 1 year ago
@Rayosun4 Take a look at the actual teachings of the Bible. There is much to be embarrassed about by those who have professed Christ yet practiced iniquity ... but then Jesus never knew them (Matthew 7). This includes those who support government sponsored racism (affirmative action), stealing and coveting (entitlement programs) and idolatry (looking to government rather than God and His righteousness ... see Psalm 146:3). Jesus was neither liberal nor conservative, He was HOLY!
BondiHarry 11 months ago
@Hunterkirk,
And in Europe, the more educated people become about the horrendous things "the Church" has done throughout its 2000 year history, the less faith they can put in that institution - which has been represented by CONSERVATIVE, NOT LIBERAL "Christianity".- You CONSERVATIVES have destroyed the name of "Christianity" Google "Hitlersfaith" (one word). And now, you want to shame us Liberal Christians for not being able to persuade many that they can be both informed and Christian!
Rayosun4 1 year ago
@Rayosun4 Funny thing is Hitler was a progressive. Conservatives believe in small government and generally reject the idea that man can perfect the world though government. Progressive and liberals worship the power of government and the power of man to fix the world and make it a "better place". Hitler believed he was perfecting the world, making it a better place.. he was a liberal.
So conservative Christianity isn't doing what you claim it is. Also the Nazi movement was largely anti religion
Hunterkirk 1 year ago
I am a Christian Conservative also. I am pro-life, I believe marriage is the union of one man and one woman. And I agree with what you said.
ACoolDudeProduction 1 year ago
Consider what left and right truly stand for. I believe in equal rights for homosexual people. That has nothing to do with whether I believe homosexuality is sin. Homosexuality is a punishable sin, but what right do we have as christians to condemn others? Isn't depriving homosexual people of rights contradicting Jesus' message? Are gay people really more likely to be born again if they aren't ALLOWED to marry? We're ALLOWED premarital sex, but that is just as evil of a sin as homosexual sex.
xerwaq 2 years ago
@xerwaq @xerwaq First off I am for small government and as such see no role for government to be involved in marriage in the first place much less homosexual, polygamous, polyamerous or any other sexual practice you may one day demand rights for.
But to not tell a sinner that they are sinning is to damn them to hell. Just as you should tell the adulterer that they are doing wrong. What you call rights are what they call normalizing the practice or acceptance of sin as normal behavior.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
I agree that we should tell homosexuals that they are sinners, in order that we may save their souls. But putting their actions under ball-and-chains will lead them towards hatred. Just because the law says they cannot get married doesn't mean they won't have a relationship. This is just how i feel though, I know a house divided against itself cannot stand. god bless you
xerwaq 2 years ago
What makes anybody think gay men and women go to "hell"?.....
boomac62 2 years ago
@boomac62 Because If it was ok for a man to have a man as a partner than why did god make a woman instead of another man? And god Oblitirated 2 cities because they were infested with homosexuals. If he wants gays to enter heaven, then why Oblitirate those gay people? He also told abraham that if 1 person was righteous in those cities that he would not destroy it, but he did destroy it. Only the righteous can enter heaven. meaning they cant. And bible says god despises homosexuality.
j79k2000 1 year ago
@xerwaq Sorry friend but we are already too late. Atheists already hate us. Gays that have no affiliation with christians already dispise how we have suppressed their freedom. I know homosexuality is sin. But, I have no authority to suppress them. If god doesnt, who is my master, how do i as a servant think i have more authority then god to stop them? Now abortion is different. Because its murder, it involves another person who has no choice in the matter. That is a sin and should be a crime.
j79k2000 1 year ago
@Hunterkirk but it is not by telling them that they are sinning that they will receive salvation, so how does this justify us in admonishing them if they have not been saved in the first place?
someguyupnorth 1 year ago
There are two parts of salvation. Part one is recognizing that you need it. Part two is being told how you get it. The Law of the Bible tells use we are sinners and establishes the first part. The Gospel of the Bible examples the second. If you don't have the Law then Salvation is meaningless. After all if you are not a sinner then why would you need a Savior?
Homosexuality is one of many sins, we are all guilty of many different sins. To say it isn't a sin is to deny the Law.
Hunterkirk 1 year ago
@Hunterkirk I agree that homosexuality is a sin, but it is by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that we come to realize that there is sin in our lives. I suppose I can see the merit in telling somebody there is sin in their life if they are unaware of it, but I think that most gays live with the understanding that their sexual lifestyle is not conducive with being a follower of Christ.
someguyupnorth 1 year ago
@someguyupnorth "but I think that most gays live with the understanding that their sexual lifestyle is not conducive with being a follower of Christ."
This part I would have to strongly disagree with. There are many Liberal "Christian" groups seeking to actively support homosexuality including conducting marriages there of. The clear intent here is to tell the Homosexual that homosexuality isn't a sin and isn't a problem in their relationship with God. In fact it seems to lift it up as good.
Hunterkirk 1 year ago
@Hunterkirk I'd have to agree with you there. I think you are spot on with that.
someguyupnorth 1 year ago
right ! jesus christ is more important
EMedley459 2 years ago
Grace is the hardest concept for most of us,as Christians, to grasp onto. We simply want to believe that we have a part in our salvation.
boomac62 2 years ago
The Bible is very specific about Grace and it is something you have to accept. To accept something you have to let go of the things that you did that were against it. I can not say I am against forest fires & set them at the same time. One can not have grace with out the rules that make the grace needed. The Bible is clear on that matter as well. It is also clear as to the punishment for those who reject God. You in your liberalism can not bring yourself to warn people & thus damn them.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
If grace must be accepted then we are not saved by grace alone....however we ARE saved by grace alone. But anyway, we agree that medeval theoligical inventions, like a god that delights in the torture of the unsaved, (read the puritans on that subject) is not the God who John says "is Love"
People are not scared into faith ( the idea that God will torture you unless...) God is not like that, who would want to love/serve such a god. No, the God of the Bible is a God of love. Peace
boomac62 2 years ago
People have abused any number of things for many different reason. Including Darwinism and Evolution in the form of Eugenics and the Nazi Genocide. Environmentalism and Zero Population. Socialism and their death camps and re-education camps. Liberalism and it oppression of free will by the "elite" who know what is best for you. Religion is no different.
But Grace is easy to understand as the Bible is clear on the matter. Jesus himself stated the laws still apply.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
@boomac62 As to Jesus and the Law consider...
Matthew 5:17- 22 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
I guess we could quote scripture back and forth. I could put up any number of biblical verses seeming to deny eternal judgement but whats the point, we both know Jesus as Lord and Savior and trust in Him alone. I wish you peace on your journey.
boomac62 2 years ago
Liberal christians, like myself, like sharing my beliefs. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ and i am a liberal. Conservatives love the lord but don't seem to love other people. I would say you,as a conservative, are close to being a pharasee, you follow the rules and judge others but have no love.
boomac62 2 years ago
@boomac62 And you seem to forget that God has any rules at all. Instead you replace God with your own desires and your own human "reason" based upon whom the left has labeled as the victims of the moment. You have no love for people who work hard and don't complain or play the victim. In short like the UU used to be Christian you are happily running down the same run to meaninglessness. Which is why you and Atheist get along so well.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
rules?....tell me what grace is if we HAVE to follow rules? We follow Christ out of love and a renewed life, we are born again. But we do no follow "rules"...only Jesus. And how do you know anthing about me, I'm a working guy, a military veteran with a 20 plus year marriage and three homeschooled kids who all love the Lord...I'm not in the UU, I was an elder in the PCA but now lean more towards the quakers...You are indeed quick to judge. Peace and love and I'll catch you in heaven brother!
boomac62 2 years ago
@boomac62 Tell the worth of Grace if you are not a sinner and have no rules by which you would require Grace in the first place. PCA is happily on the way to becoming a new UU church. The only step you need to first take is to say you don't need Christ to be saved. Your leadership is coming dangerously close to doing just that. After that your faith and grace and even Jesus becomes meaningless and all you are left with is the liberalism which is your true faith.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
I challenge you on the UU/PCA comment. Name one (1) example of the PCA moving in the direction of the UU's? They don't even allow women elders for Pete's sake!( one of the reasons I left the PCA)....I think you fear to much and rest in grace to little.remember you, my friend, are not saved by works. Peace!
boomac62 2 years ago
@boomac62 Very well do you agree that only those who accept Christ as their lord and savior will be saved?
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
Jesus is the only way and He accomplished salvation on the cross. " ...for just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." Rom 5:18-19... This certainly asserts the salvation of all sinners. ...just saying.
. Anyway, it's a rather big subject ,and as you know for the first 500 years Universalism was
the prevailing doctrine of the Church. Peace
boomac62 2 years ago
@boomac62 So you agree that a very nice atheist will not be granted entry in to heaven?
Also how are we all sinners as you have refused the laws that condemn us as sinners?
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
I don't know the eternal fate of the person who rejects God, I do believe there is a judgement and cleansing....i ,of course, reject the medieval idea of eternal torment. As for the laws, we are under none if we can accept that. now if we were under the law what would Grace mean? grace covers all our sins, and yes we do all sin. In hearts,minds and body, BUT while once dead in those sins we now have life. So ,yes, even if we sin God still loves us and has allready forgiven us....It is Finished.
boomac62 2 years ago
@boomac62 We are under no laws? So I can be a mass murderer and reject Jesus and reject forgiveness and YOUR understanding I will be saved? We can break every rule in the Bible and still be saved even if we never seek forgiveness for these sins we actively engage in? So how are you different from the UU's as you can do whatever you want and there are no rules and everyone will be saved?
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
"the conservative christian doesn't do that. If the bible says it's wrong, it's wrong."
Oh yeah? Do you pork? How about shrimp? Do you think it's wrong for a rape victim to be forced to marry her rapist?
If so, you're a sinner and committing abominations against God, and will most likely go to hell unless you repent from these wicked beliefs. Do with that what you will.
WickedWitchElphaba 2 years ago
You can veer off into attacks or you can address my comments to your original questions.
When John's gospel has Jesus being crucified on Passover and the synoptic gospels have him being crucified on another day entirely, then something other than literalism is going on. When Mark has Jesus blessing the "poor" and Matthew changes that to blessing the "poor IN SPIRIT" a different sort of truth rather than a literal truth is involved here. Holding onto literalism boxes Christianity in.
aikido7 2 years ago
By the way, your guessing at my motives and trying to read my mind ("It makes you angry as hell...etc.") is not only ineffective, it is silly. That seems to be the same way many believers evaluate Scripture. Instead of finding out what the authors were trying to say THEN and then trying to apply THAT to the way things are NOW you mix the text up in one big soup and use the Bible almost as a "Ouija Board" or pick out certain ingredients to string along into your own necklace.
aikido7 2 years ago
First off you need to define "literalism" The fact that the different gospels have slightly different account or focus means it is even more likely the truth as in every eye witness cases you will give different accounts from different witnesses.
When it happened is not as import as it happened, in which all are in agreement. Now as to understanding the Bible there are three or four ways one can review the Bible. Historical, Literal, Translation, and Cultural. It is best to use ALL four.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
The "three or four ways" are traditions of MEN. Show me where.There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that hermeneutic has to be used. The Baptists have long had a doctrine called "the priesthood of the believer." ANYONE who follows Jesus can interpret the Bible in their own way.
aikido7 2 years ago
"The "three or four ways" are traditions of MEN."
Incorrect. They are studies of the Bible in context of time, history, and cultures. The focus remains the message of the Bible and not the ways of man. It considers "what was happening when the events in the Bible took place?"
I get the impress you spend very little time studying Bible.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
"Bible... pick out certain ingredients to string along into your own necklace. "
If you are the person designing the "necklace" then it is your wishes that you are following and not Gods. So in effect you are your own God and the God of the Bible is just one of many tools you pick from to support things you have already decided you want.
So if you want to worship yourself feel free to do so. I would rather study the Bible to seek God's will then use the Bible to support mine.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
How many Christians who supported burning men women and children old and young in Iraq actually believe in loving their enemies? How many judgemental Christian scolds have paid notice of Jesus' belief that God "sends his sun to shine on both the evil AND the good and sends rain on BOTH the just and the unjust?" How many believe Jesus when he counselled to call NO MAN on earth your father? Those who fear a judgemental god--do they listen to Jesus when he said "Who made ME a judge?"
aikido7 2 years ago
Now you have jump to the standard anti religion anti Christianity argument made by those who hate Christianity and Religion. And yes you will be banned for doing this as I don't allow bigots in this forum & you just showed yourself to be a anti christian bigot.
Yes some have used religion to support very secular goals of conquest or abuse. Just as some use science and atheism to do the same. Some have misrepresented historical events to demonize religion who are political foes... see liberals.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
As a liberal, I notice that the way religious conservatives punish those of their own who deviate from the Righteous Path tells me everything I need to know about Christian tolerance. Jesus came preaching the coming of the Kingdom of God. What came instead was the church. If Constantine had not converted, the faith would not have become an empire. The power of empire is in control and so letting Jesus actually speak for himself is dangerous for any bureaucratic salvation machine.
aikido7 2 years ago
"Christian tolerance" isn't the active supporting of sinful behavior, which seems to be the liberal Christians definition. Jesus didn't go to the adulterer and say "I love you now how can I help you hook up with another woman?". He did not go to the prostitute and say "I love you and let me help you be a prostitute."
What you guys seem only focused on is the Good News of salvation but you fear to tell ANYONE that they are sinners or ask anyone to stop sinning.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
Forgiveness, empathy & the heart's compassion are all different than "actively supporting sinful behavior."
Read some other takes on Christianity. Remember--ever since 325 AD the faith got hijacked by power and empire for the first time. Study how the Good News of the KIngdom of God (THAT's what Jesus came preaching) became the Emperor Constantine's New Rules for living in Pax Romana.
You are misinformed if you believe some liberal Christians are afraid to confront sin. You really are.
aikido7 2 years ago
"Forgiveness, empathy & the heart's compassion are all different than "actively supporting sinful behavior."
Your right but you can not claim to be forgiving something when you are actively supporting. How can you claim to be forgiving of prostitution and be the pimp? How can you claim be forgiving of adultery and actively say it is ok?
Your misinformed about forgiveness and true caring.Caring mean you want the best for people and that can not include them wallowing in sin.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
You are still trapped in the left-brained, "either/or" paradigm. For Christians, Constantine quashed the parable & turned the Way into the Roman Empire. The Industrial Revolution further hypnotized us into thinking there is a difference between subject & object & made us believe morality and conciousness is contained within the human skull. The literal world of the Bible's gone.
Go to any meeting of AL-ANON. And particiapte. You'll unravel the mystery of forgiveness AND support.
aikido7 2 years ago
"The literal world of the Bible's gone."
And here is the root problem with you liberal "christians". For you your liberalism IS God's will and the Bible is at best a book to be picked through to find the things that can be used or twisted to support your liberalism.
It makes you angry as hell when those who seek God's will & not their own turn to the Bible and adhere to it to the best of their ability.
In short a liberal christian is a liberal first and for most, christian is second at best.
Hunterkirk 2 years ago
I agree with Markus, the more time you spend spreading faith the less time you spend spreading good work. Faith has its place, but lets be honest, faith doesn't shelter the homeless or feed the starving.
One could also argue that it isn't the liberal christians want to hide their faith, just that they feel their faith is personal and wish to keep it that way.
smileyeagle1021 2 years ago
If I have a saturday afternoon to help the church and i spend that time handing out pamphlets to advance my religion, i WONT have the time to help people
QTMarkus88 2 years ago
...liberal Europe. According to the CIA factbook, Germany is 60% Christian, the United Kingdom is 71% Christian, and France (the most liberal of them all) is only 4% atheist. Now you could say these stats are false, but that would be calling the CIA liars.... haha, I'm just kidding.
saranne08 2 years ago
Think the UK may be a bit out lol
I know about 4 christions in a school of 1000
kaichi23 2 years ago
This argument is fundamentally offbase, because how someone conducts themself in daily life and how they view the role of religion in government are not mutually inclusive. Just because someone believes religion should not have a role in government does not mean they aren't vocal about their religion in day to day life. This can also work vice versa. I'm a liberal Christian and I share my faith all the time. Now, you base a lot of your argument on the atheist state that is...
saranne08 2 years ago
I'm a liberal Christian and ALL of my fellow Christians cherry-pick. You can't be a Christian without cherry picking the Bible to at least some degree. >.>
BearGirl26 2 years ago
We're not hiding, we just not being bushy.....quite unlike conservatives. If we're in a room of people whom we know are okay with the conversation, we will have intelligible, and yes LIBERAL, conversations pertaining to Jesus Christ.
kalamazooboom 3 years ago
America will FOREVER be a Conservative Christian Country and will FOREVER be ruled by Conservative Christian Republicans. DOWN with the DEMOCRAPS!
ecwaufisxtreme 3 years ago
BOO!
kalamazooboom 3 years ago
america will be ruled by conservative christians ? so what is barak obama isn't he a liberal
DeathxxxQueen 3 years ago
Obambi is an extreme hard-left liberal. He will go into defeat in 2012 when Palin becomes POTUS for 8 years and then her successor will be another white female conservative like Palin and she will lead for another 8 years and this cycle will keep on going and going and going. The Democraps WILL NEVER win the white house again after 2012!
ecwaufisxtreme 3 years ago 2
Making me laugh! :D It's the conservative republicans who screwed up the US...it's your party that lead us to the recession were in! Democrats will have the presidency for years to come! Obama has already done a wonderful job, and he's only been in office a few months!!! Go Obama! Go Democrat's! Go liberal's!
mikecs 2 years ago
I am a white Liberal Christian and my family are white Conservative Christians. I will tell you the difference. They are racist serial killers and I am not. That's the differance.
guitarmike3 3 years ago
An your a hatemonger baby killer race bater... See both can be insulting if one wishes.
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
Funny, I've never met one of those racist Christians that you are speaking of. That sand must be really hot, it's frying your brain cells.
fezik82 2 years ago
I'm a Liberal Democrat Christian, and I share my faith profoundly. I can't even stand it when people Blasphemy, because I always feel like I must correct them. But due to being a follower of Jesus Christ, I don't have to be a full-blown Conservative Republican. Politics is only a matter of Opinion, and while being pro-choice, that doesn't mean I "support" Abortion. I think we need to stop picking out certain liberals who are corrupt and saying "every liberal has bad intentions!".
MichaelGlennVideos 3 years ago
So you are saying you are ok with people killing their unborn child as a justified choice? Pro-Choice would mean that you would call someone whom choose to have a child pro-choice. Truth is it has ALWAYS been pro-abortion and the not having the abortion option was never promoted by "pro-choice" people.
Outside of that yes Conservative Christianity ISNT being a Republican, it is just that the Republicans are the only party that will listen to us.
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
I understand where your coming from, and I'm responding not with an attitude of hate nor anger, but just to clarify where I as an individual stand.
I am pro-choice, and I do understand the effects of the pro-choice position. I realize that Abortions happen under that stance, but I do not believe, that as far as personal decisions, the Government should tell us how to make them. Just like sin, sin exists, but because the option is there, doesn't mean you have to give into it and Sin.
MichaelGlennVideos 3 years ago
If you are not for abortion, then don't vote for it. Your doing no one a favor by sitting on the fence.
Don't give people a license to kill
Iceblazer08 3 years ago
Liberal means Tolerant, not "anything goes" . Do you think Christ was intolerant? Tell me, did you vote for Bush? in 2004? after the war based on lies started ? If so, turn in your crucifix and rosary beeds, It aint "anything goes", You follow Christ's teachings or you don't.
DJH1170 3 years ago
So you tolerate sinful behavior? What exactly are you "tolerating" and how do you define toleration... does in me you actively support and promote sinful behavior or things that are counter to the teachings in the Bible?
Which carries the day when you have to choose between the Bible and your Tolerance? Yes in that case the Liberal Christian will take tolerance over the Bible any day.
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
if your not against the sinfullness of someone, then your for it...Being a "tolerant christian" is a impossiblity ....
Christ wasn't at all tolerant. HAve you read about the time in the temple, when he chewed out the Pharisees about ther hypocricy?
clearly you haven't
Hunterkirk...rock on bro
vumcyouth 3 years ago
Yes, he called out the scam artist and kicked them out of a place of worship. Ho would you like it if drug dealers moved into your house? No one should tolerate scam artist, they are thieves, like the Pharisees.
I have read it.
Iceblazer08 3 years ago
The difference between Liberal Christians and Conservative Christians is that Conservative Christians aren't actually Christians at all. Christians who believe in the teachings of Christ wouldn't Hate Social programs that help the poor, or hate Gays, or support a war of choice based on lies, CHRIST ISN'T A REPUBLICAN! Christ would be angered by the hypocrisy of the Farisee, er.. I mean.. the Christian Right.
DJH1170 3 years ago
"Liberal means Tolerant" Yet you just showed glaring INTOLERANCE toward Conservative Christians. So I guess your a hypocrit.
Whom said Republicans hate helping the poor? The difference between the Democrat and the Republican is that Democrats help the poor remain poor, while the Republicans help the poor become the middle class.
So the Bible lies when it speaks out against homosexuality? So if the Bible is of NO value to you in understanding God what source do you draw from? The DNC?
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
Where are you getting your statistics from? I'm very much liberal and always talk about my faith. As for your assesment that conservatives are more on the faith side as opposed to works, Clint Eastwood once said, "Faith ain't worth spit without works."
babalu95 3 years ago
Liberals (people with the whole, "anything goes" attitude) do not like to talk about their faith for the most part. They don't want to "offend" anyone. I see it all the time. You just happen to be an exception. I don't know you, but I'll take your word for it.
If you listen to the part in the video, somewhere in the middle he says how conservatives are very much intersted in works. But they also make it a point to TALK about it.
Maybe you're a little more conservative than you thought.
andiechic 3 years ago 2
There's a fundamental flaw in labeling someone lib or con. If I'm going to label someone as conservative, then they're aligned with that man that went in to that church last week and shot everyone up because they were liberal. If you disagree with that man, then can i label you and assume you have some liberal in you? You can see the fallacy in this rational.
babalu95 3 years ago
I understand what you're saying. However, aligning all conservatives with the shooter from last week is stupid. It's like saying every liberal is a communist, which is not true. But labeling can be necessary as it gives an understanding to peoples' stances in situations. I am conservative b/c of my stances and beliefs, if I disagree w/ another conservative, that's something else.
Besides, killing is against the Bible. How conservative is this man anyway? Conservative as he says? Or crazy?
andiechic 3 years ago
Sadly, that man was aligned with the majority of conservatives who fully supported a war in Iraq. Yet the "Thou shall not kill," principle did not apply. By labeling some as "conservative," to understand their stance, I still don't understand Conservatives. Either you follow scriptures or you don't. God didn't say, "Thou shall not kill...but it's ok in certain situations." Can't have it both ways. "By works of the law no flesh will be justified in his own sight." Romans 3:20
babalu95 3 years ago
With such a broad brush ,you paint. and so narrow is your canvas.
since you pretend to know about all liberal christians. i will pretend to know about all conservative christians.
conservative christians:
support war, torture, and opression ,without question and often think it's Gods will
have no regard for the poor unless they convert.
horde money by keeping way more than they need.
all these are expressly prohibited by christ.
but i don't know the hearts of all conservative christians
kindkayne 3 years ago
Nice try but the numbers dont support that. In fact con. Christians give more money to the need per their income then the liberal christian groups. Lib Christians groups tend to want government to tax people & use the taxes to help people in government programs then to reach into their own pcokets. In short they hoard far more then cons. do.
Torture is by defination & it is the defination that we disagree on.
Generalization are need in such discussions.
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
conservative christians scare me...a lot of them actually think the earth is still only 6000 years old and that evolution is not real...
zbjordan23 4 years ago
and why should that matter? Liberals scare me they thnk government is the solution to everything. At least the conservative christians belief dont directly influance or control your life.
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
would a whole group of people who still believe the earth is flat, and that gravity doesnt exist scare you?..the scary part is that conservative christian beliefs do affect my life...From those who advocate intelligent design as a science, to those with a huge influence in presidential elections. And to say that liberal think that the gov is the solution to EVERYTHING is quite a general statement. I am a liberal and I dont think they should be in everything
zbjordan23 4 years ago
Show me the Conservative Christian group that wants evolution out of the school system. All they want is their views included in the public system as well. Are you against inclusion & representation?
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
This isnt the argument. Liberals are happy if Conservative Christian groups want to include their views in the school system under religion/philosophy..etc. My problem is including it as a science. Religion is not a science. If intelligent design had the same scientific backing, then I am all for making it science. We cant be teaching kids the earth is 6000 years old as science when evidence says otherwise.
zbjordan23 4 years ago
Are you against the inclusion of the spectrum of faiths?...Science is taught in schools because it is VALID. Christianity is for Sunday-School not for public school.
griffrs 4 years ago
I am not but clearly you are. I think the school should be representative of the populations that go to them. If the majority of the youths in the community are Hindu I have no problem with hindu stuff in the school.
The trouble with your arguement is that you come from the view that religion is less equal then other beliefs. Thusly in your mind the religious shouldnt be given the same rights as other... in short it is a form of bigotry.
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
Liberals want to tell us what kind of cars we can drive, where we can live, what kind of homes we can live in, what kind of energy sources we can use, what our children can learn, what we are allowed to think (hate crime laws), what we are allowed to say (political correctness), whom will be represented and whom will not, etc. They want their fingers in EVERY part of our lives.
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
I am a liberal and I dont want you to tell you what to do. I want you to do whatever you want as long as it is in a responsible manner and does not infringe upon me. The problem is that if you drive a car spewing off poisonous gas, I think I have the right to ask you to stop. I think the energy sources we use is VERY important in progessing the country.
zbjordan23 4 years ago
So you DO want to control what other people drive "car spewing off poisonous gas", you do want to control how other people live, and you do want a say in everyone elses lives.
So YOUR far worse in infringement in others live then any Conservative ever was.. I thank you for proving me right.
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
I don't want my finger anywhere near your life.
griffrs 4 years ago
If you support the "Man Made Global Warming" efforts, and support "Zero Population Growth", and support "Hate Crime Laws", and support "Diversity Training" then you by defination want your finger in my life and the lives of countless others.
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
yeah, so youre saying basically that during world war 2, that the allies should have taken their finger out of Hitlers business? Extreme Libertarianism leads to a dog eat dog mentality, if you wish to live by the life philosophy of the animals move to a zoo.
DinkiDiDude 3 years ago
Where did I say "Extreme Libertarianism"? Small government is a call for limited government not NO government. Also I would point out Hitler declared war on us. The basic job of government is to protect it people against nations that seek to harm us... thusly attacking German and Japan was self defense as they anounced the war first and in Japans case attacked first.
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
Whom are these 'mystery liberals' that tell you 'what car you can drive'? Could you give a name/source please?
"what we are allowed to say (political correctness)"
'political correctness' is not a law, it is simply 'good manners' You can say whatever you like.
"What kind of energy sources we can use"
If your upwind neighbor decided to make energy
from pig manure, would you be OK with that?
festdir 3 years ago
a) Laws regulateing what cars must have in them and what milage they must have... thusly making the muscle cars all but illegal in the very near future.
b) "You can say whatever you like" LOL
c) "If your upwind neighbor..." Makeing excuses to intevern in the private lives of others I see.
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
a) What does 'all but illegal' mean? Either something is or isn't legal.You can OWN any virtually any car you want, however if you want to drive your car on PUBLICLY OWNED roads, then you have to follow the laws. For instance, if someone was driving a car that didn't have brakes rammed you, would you not sue?
b)"LOL" is for teenage girls-as that is the best 'refute' you can give I assume you have conceded this point.
c)What is more 'intervening of one's private life' than Hog Shit?
festdir 3 years ago
a) You can't own a car if the government make making such a car illegal because it does not meet some standard for fuel efficiencey.
b) You try to say whatever you want in the public forum. People have been arested for hate crimes because of what they said not what they did.
c) I understand you have a problem with private property. I think I should have a say on what colors you paint your house and what you plant in your yard because it is something I have to see.
Hunterkirk 3 years ago
Europeans look at American religions and it seems that many of the preachers raise a great deal of money and much of this is diverted to give them a very high standard of living. We contrast this with the evry simple life Jesus lived and the contrast appears strange.
Tony63efc 4 years ago
Yet many of the most outspoke American Religious groups are not rich. In fact in America most of the Big money rich churches are more liberal then conservative.
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
Interesting; which type of Christians in America take the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" and use it to oppose the death penalty. For European Christians this commandment applies to abortion, euthenasia and death penalty. If I don't reply immediately it's because church is in 45 minutes.
Tony63efc 4 years ago
There is much debate on that commandment. Some say it translates to "Thou Shall Not Kill" others say the translation is "Thou Shall Not Commit Murder". The Bible translations are split down the middle.
I think the commandment is "Thou shall not commit murder" as in the old testiment God ordered the Jews to go to battle.
Hunterkirk 4 years ago
I'm guessing from this answer that you think Christians can support the death penalty.
Tony63efc 4 years ago