self-destruction of howtheworldworks and an apology to his subscribers...

[ec123456789able]

Lee Doren censors ratings on videos where his worldviews are unpopular.

It is all very well people defending him talking about ''privacy'' and ''personal freedom'' over their own account, but the truth is, factually and morally speaking, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I would personally feel relived if all of his subscribers were sock accounts.

If every one of his subscribers were genuine it is a sad day for logic and reason since it implies lots of people actually agree with his dogma.

[VigilanteNighthawk]

HTWW's screams text book narcissist.

[chewbacca4me]

Uh, what the hell is a sock account??? :-(

[patsrule213]

@chewbacca4me

A sock account is another account by the same person in an attempt to make it seem like more people have subscribed to him so that other people might subscribe to him.

[Tripo1iSamson]

Actions don't make people, people make actions. So it looks like Lee used some sock accounts. Yeah, it sucks. He's also said some interesting things that you won't hear from various other people. Likewise, it's maybe a merit that cristoballs and others have pointed this out, but they're also being the same level of dickwad as Lee. Yeah, you're not "good" or "bad" based on two or three actions. You can suck and say neat things, or be a dick and also be right.

[danrick77]

This is apparently Lee Doren's MO. He's completely ruined the activist organization Bureaucrash and driven away the most loyal founding members.

[nothinsnew]

Ha ha! Just had a look at the whole Bureaucrash thing. He's trying very hard to get noticed the poor kid but just like a small, spoiled child he seems to leave a trail of shit wherever he goes lol

[danrick77]

Hey just out of curiosity where'd you go to look into it? I assumed this would be difficult for anyone that wasn't involved at the time.

[nothinsnew]

Its on Wikipedia

[shadowpirate100]

They even called him out on his arrogance. Makes me wonder if they just brought him on to be some sort of lackey (scooter libby) for some dirty work before they kick him to the curb.

[BiodegradeableMan]

HTWW was never the same after Charles Atlas refunded his money.

[grungefreak10]

I don't agree 100% with the likes of any side, so I don't trash Lee simply for having his opinions. It just pisses me off to no end how guys like him have to be such intolerant, flaming jerks about it.

[Cloudff7yaoi]

Second time I watched this and still just as true. :P

[spleenblender]

I LOVE YOU BUT NORMALIZE YOUR FUCKING AUDIO. Your intro is like 100000000000 dB and your voice is like 1dB. Jeez...

[cristoballs]

:-) thanks, and i'll work on that audio problem. i'm going to sleep. later.

[tmcthree]

Yeah. have you seen chuckzlords "facebook page".

There's only one photo on it and he's wearing exactly the same clothes and sitting in the same chair as he is in the video pointing people to the page.

These guys are morons.

[tmcthree]

Yeah I went on his channel saying that I thought christoballs theory was flawed, in that, it would be incredibly stupid of HTWW to risk his channel of 11000+ subscribers for the sake of a few dozen extra.

He deleted the comment and blocked me.

What a wanker

[cristoballs]

he's a bloody wanker!:-P glad more people are beginning to realize this.

[luc59457]

Knock em down one by one. There's more! lmao. If he wasn't a wanker he would be talking to us right now explaining like a civilized person.. Ishereallyhowtheworldworks? or ishedecievinghowtheworldworksc­leverlybutnotsocleverlytosomeo­therwisehewouldhavesaidsomethi­nginhereindefence. Privacy is an important aspect, perhaps, he should make his account private for a day to prove to some skeptics. i think its important because I wouldn't sub to his kind of content. It's blabla to me.

[HowTheWorldWorksSock]

I AM NOT A SOCK!

[realk1234]

nice video

[elindred]

i am not a sock account i am not a sock account i am not a sock account i am not a sock account

[cristoballs]

i've heard that if you repeat that into a mirror, htww will appear behind you and call you a drone.

[jamminjago]

Funnily enough I was subscribed to him for 5 months as well. I posted a comment on his defamation video that read something like "I like your video but that doesn't prove that those aren't sock accounts" Then I just listed some criteria for spotting obvious sock accounts. It was a pretty even handed comment. I didn't think to take a screen shot. Hmm maybe it's still there? But a few days later I realized I was blocked, what a fucking dick.

[XanatharEye]

You people amaze me. You claim to take the high ground intellectually by rejecting the God that you secretly shake your fists at, all the while building a pantheon of mortal gods to follow (tf00t, ect.), and you reveal the true shallowness of your position by not only not ignoring someone you're just SO convinced is wrong like HTWW, but you become obsessed with him. That seems hyper religious to me. Ironic.

[cristoballs]

sir, the first rule of project mayhem is you do not ask questions.

[TAz69x]

Not really.

You have five minutes to fill in a day, so you make a video about an idiot.

The rest of the time, you don't give a fuck.

[FuckGod]

what? are you kidding? Atheists are bloggers through the internet, this is what we do. Its nothing to do with religion, we do it becaus its fun!

[PedanticTwit]

Plainly you are engaging in the fallacy of equivocation. Respecting someone, even obsessing over someone, is not equivalent to worship. Even if someone were to worship another human, if there is no acknowledgment of a supernatural agency, then there is no contradiction.

Perhaps you should take a course in basic critical thinking.

[ls1z28chris]

I don't think a basic course in critical thinking will solve the neurological issues with someone who equates YouTube users with deities.

Thunderf00t is a smart dude who people like listening to because he makes sane, rational arguments. The moment he stops doing that, people will stop watching him and move on to someone else. A person who thinks this is the same as bestowing "mortal god" status is clearly insane.

[JamesJimRaynor]

Religious isn't the word here you know.

Try vocal?

[LETZZERO]

There are a number or baseless presumptions in there. Are you implying that because I am subscribed to them that I think they are gods?

Going by that logic does anyone subscribed to the bbc channel belong the to religion of...........BBC-ism?

[riotguards]

yeh were so religious we go about killing people in the name of god or becase there

A) a witch/wizard

B) not in that religion

or

C) going about spreading hate to all races, beliefs and sexual preferences

how ironic

[DWest174]

You just desrcibed islam pretty well there.

[sneakybeard]

Religion and passian are different things retard.

Religious: having or showing belief in and reverence for a deity; "a religious man"; "religious attitude"

Passionate: having or expressing strong emotions

[robertmike57]

CHUCKLZLORD, pictured at 1:32-2:23, has been identified as Al Canata, Director of Development for Competitive Enterprise Institute, where Lee Doren is also employed.

See watch?v=8n8eIr_YEcE

[cristoballs]

oh man... i gotta verify that. if that's true. that's pretty bad for lee.

[luc59457]

It seems more often, partners (not all) block their subscribers list.

[THEBEEF7054]

chucklzlord made another vid telling his actual identity and giving a facebook link. I am not a member of facebook so I can't see it.

I think he is legit because he seems nervous in the vid and even kind of amazed at the attention he is getting.

at the same time, it may just all be a bunch of mess.

[RJackson808]

Very good work. And I think it's great that you we're so reasonable about it. Thank you for setting a good example..

I dont think it's likely that Lee will be as affable and self correcting. My money would be on self righteous acting out...

[robertmike57]

Seems there is at least one website that will create sock accounts for the purpose of getting your video featured at web video promoter (dotcom)

Alex Jones keeps his subscription list public but How the World Works keeps his subscription list private is bullshit. HTWW is geting ral people to use sock accounts tobe as nasty as he is.

[THEBEEF7054]

cristo,

I don't think that tf00t will feature this vid. not because it isn't worthy but because of his statement of featureing your other vid for 2 weeks to see if HTWW will actually try to take legal action.

he may do it afterwards but not until. I have found that if tf00t says he is going to do something, the world would have to end before he would go back on what he says.

he may still feature it after that 2 week period. this is funny how all of this is playing out.

[TraePalmer]

I can't believe he treats his subscribers that way....

[cristoballs]

i can't believe you subscribed to me after my first video on vfx. that video sucked. i think you were my first subscriber. anyway, thanks for sticking around.

[TraePalmer]

No worries ^_^

I remember I liked one of your comments on one of Lee's videos -- he said there were no cases where a third-trimester abortion was necessary to save a mother's life, and you listed three cases, so I sent you a friend request and subscribed.

[cristoballs]

yeah, i think that was the day i got blocked from his channel. he has yet to correct himself on that statement, as well as many others. i'm thinking of putting together a video calling him out on some of the lies he's reported and see if he will give a correction to any of them.

[TraePalmer]

He has a tendency to use something close to a moving the goalposts fallacy to respond when confronted with facts [a great example is what happened when he asked for anyone to present cases when someone who was likely not guilty was wrongfully executed] so that would likely be his response. Also, Liberalviewer recently called him out on historical inaccuracies and he just refuted those saying he knew better. I still think you should make a video, though: it'd be great to expose the lies ! :)

[robertmike57]

HTWW doesn't care about correcting anything, liberalviewer laid out 2 simple examples regarding John Holdren and the ACLU, all HTWW does is scream louder.

HTWW will ignore you because you only have as many real subscibers that he does: 488.

[bugninja80]

He did the same thing to me so I unsubscribed. When TF's video was falsely flagged (It was a video against HTWW) he claimed that TF sent his drones to 1 star all his videos and that was a low ball tatic. I said how do you know they didn't just do it on their own anyone could say that you sent your subs to flag his video. He called me worthless and that I was spreading lies.

[Hellsadvocate]

He won't. He will continue to call you a drone.

I already called him out several times in a civil manner and he proceeded to call me a drone and say I had a low IQ.

He has no argument : /

[RabidPetRocks]

Please do! Perhaps he will react like the roach he is and go into hiding when the light of truth hits him.

[Inmylifealive]

I used to be a subsciber of him.. Just to point out the silly things he said in his video's. (and say the video's where good when they where good).

But a well, after a while he just banned me.

[Mooja12]

For an example of harrassment see my comments section. These comments also go to my home e-mail account. Latest jackass is Surathan.

[PremusRed]

You should mention liberalviewer's little feud too :)

[stewart0312]

Half are sock accounts?  LOL. Well, the guy does lack charisma, credibility and cosistancy so I guess it is possible.

[Violetcrime]

I wonder how many of these accounts in question are like mine; I have uploaded nothing, I comment rarely, and a favorite a rather narrow group of videos.

That said- you can just tell HTWW is a d-bag who would do exactly that sort of thing, and his actions are screaming 'I did it'. Were I him, I would demand an apology above all else, rather than demand the video be taken down (along with its support) above all else; indicates he fears the video, but not because it's wrong...

[Amy31415]

This is how a free "market" and free speech should work.

Nice job Cristo--you're a big man for asking your subscribers to stop bugging other people. I respect that.

[cristoballs]

thanks. i appreciate that.:-)

[infinitum17]

ignore the haters, cristo. the reasonable people in the room can see what the deal is.

[ervin2]

There are tools and drones even among atheists.

[cohenmarioman]

nice apology. I don't know why Lee would lash out like that, and not apologize, I guess he was just too busy to give a response.

[griffithafrank]

Nice vid.

[Zuul030]

Your win is so epic. It's amazes me.

[Newworld444]

I don't know, but from what I see, couldn't it just be possible that HTWW's subscribers aren't the type of people to be that active. I mean their were some slight difference on each of those videos you showed as possibly sock accounts (even though they were all subscribed to the same thing).

He must really love self promotion if its true and he spends his time doing that.

[stanjz]

I went after HTWW long before I became a subscriber to cristoballs. I'm not even into this "sock account thing." My relationship to cristoballs is tangential. HTWW is constantly unfairly attacking progressives and the President. that is why he is getting heat.

[robertmike57]

I would never harass anyone simply for commenting on a HTWW video. I don't have time nor care if he uses sock accounts to add comments, subscribers or views. Silly if there are those doing that.

The HTWW is unhinged. Just hope Lee Doren doesn't own any guns.

Thunderf00t has been favoring LOTS of the anti HTWW videos. This seems to have good quality.

[cristoballs]

cool. thanks:-)

[TraePalmer]

@robertmike57: LMAO at 'The HTWW is unhinged. Just hope Lee Doren doesn't own any guns'.

Word. That and that there are no bell towers near his place. o_o

[EcrossH]

I'm LOVING these videos cristoballs. I'm glad that someone has the time and skill to expose HTWW, who carelessly does damage to any hope of rational public discourse about pressing issues and does damage to the solid, proven case that climate change is a serious serious matter. Thank you.

[cristoballs]

thanks man.

[82abhilash]

It would be like going to war with a country based on nothing more than suspicion of wrong doing. Which is precisely what you did with your original video. You are back tracking now, because you have been exposed. Shame on you.

[cristoballs]

wrong. i voiced my suspicion. nothing more. i never once called on people to flood those accounts inboxes with insults.

[82abhilash]

No you did not call on people to flood those accounts, you did not need to. Instead you called on him to reveal his subscribers. You made them claim, but put the burden of proof on him. When he refused to comply...we know the rest.

[NwZ2]

First of all, he made a VIDEO as evidence for his claims, so you're wrong on that point. Second of all, even supposing the "burden of proof" was left on HTWW, how does this relate to your charge that somehow cristoball's accusation more or less called for actions to be taken (ie a "war with a country"). You didn't even fully work through with your own argument. You're nuts!

[82abhilash]

cristoballs himself has admitted to me that he had just voiced his suspicion, not given evidence. cristoballs did not call for action to be taken. He did not have to explicitly do that. The nature of drones is such that they will seize on any excuse. He is morally responsible for the actions that is equivalent to 'a war with a country' because he created a false impression. thunderf00t more than him, because he featured his questionable video. To his credit, cristoballs did ask them to stop.

[NwZ2]

"cristoballs himself has admitted to me that he had just voiced his suspicion, not given evidence"

And you believed him? LOLOL. I don't give a shit what he said; it's a FACT that he has a video where he presents his evidence (ie viewing a bunch of sock puppet accounts all subscribed to the same 5 people, in the same order).

B) what really happened seems to be a miscommunication on someone's part (probably yours, in this case), rather.

[82abhilash]

Ok, I do not have to take you seriously at this point. Bye.

[NwZ2]

Translation: You're being too thorough of your logical evisceration of my absurd claims. Ergo, I'm going to run off cowardly whilst claiming that YOU are the one who's being illogical

....

[NwZ2]

"The nature of drones is such that they will seize on any excuse."

I don't buy that for one minute. A) if it was true, wouldn't that, also, apply to you (or anyone with any kind of bias at all, for that matter?) and B) you haven't demonstrated one shred of evidence that simply having said bias induces one towards such knee-jerking automated reactions.

"He is morally responsible"

?? To what extent??

This is youtube, it's not that serious. Plus he didn't make any explicit incitement

[NwZ2]

nor did he make any implicit incitement. Your logic is flawed because, if we were to follow it's inevitable conclusion, making *any* claim in *any* video is synonymous with making a charge to action to people, of whom, cristo (and anyone else with subscribers) has NO control over. In other words; if you criticize, then GG for you. That's absurd.

[NwZ2]

"because he created a false impression"

False impression? LOLOOL And where did you go through the elaborate logical proof where you demonstrated his accusations to be falsehoods? Again, you're seemingly pulling shit out of your ass.

[cristoballs]

whoa! let's be clear here. while i did voice my suspicion, it was based on evidence. that evidence being that the copiousdissent channel, which lee runs, started only weeks before the htww channel. also, the accounts that i listed in my video, were not subscribed to anyone till they subscribed to htww, that is further evidence. is it irrefutable evidence? no. so i'll man up and take responsibility if anyone who is not htww got hit with hate comments, to a certain extent anyway.

[NwZ2]

Dude, don't bother; i've already exhausted all reasonable avenues in illuminating the retardation that is that guy's argument. It's not even a case where he's somewhat mistaken; any amount of applied reason to his claims reveals that he's a shill trying to back HTWW in any way he can, despite his criticisms of such behavior (ironically similar to a creationist claiming that "evolutionists" are dogmatic).

[cristoballs]

the copiousdissent channel is a sock account. it has no uploads on it, no activity except for favoriting htww videos, and when i made my original video exposing this channel, the only friend and the only subscription on this channel were htww and advocate1234.

[elbowbiter1]

Or a paid shill for the corporate elite.

[hallcyon]

Its not your fault that people act a certain way, you have never promoted harassment in any way. If youy are on youtube there are community guidelines and terms of service which everyone must comply with that are in fact some within reason although vague. So no I dont think you owe anyone an apology. Just a clarification that you don't condone such bahavior. HTWW does condone certain behaviour:

watch?v=SgEg2lB4qlk

It is Lee Holden who owes TJ & others an apology. Hold HTWW accountable.

[82abhilash]

I saw that video. You cannot hold HTWW responsible for the comments other people post on his channel. That is what VFX was doing to thunderf00t as well. People are responsible for their own actions. I think people who indulged in the mindless smear campaign owes HTWW an apology pending new evidence.

[cristoballs]

what are you talking about? i'm not holding him responsible for other people's comments. i'm holding him responsible for his comments. he called a loyal fan of his a "fool" and a "drone".

[82abhilash]

I was referring to watch?v=SgEg2lB4qlk You did not make that video, so I was not accusing you. As for him calling a loyal fan of his a "fool" and a "drone", that is between them, why do you need to butt in unless one of them asks you first? I will tell you why I think it is, you are grasping on straws when it comes to smearing him, that is why.

[larsontic]

82abhilash

Are you one of HTWWs sock accounts ?

Or just his mother ?

[82abhilash]

Thanks that was very deep thinking.

[riotguards]

thxs i know

your prob the only HTWW sock account that would thx me

[82abhilash]

I suppose to be called Lee's sock account by an ignoramus is a complement. It shows me that you are desperate.

[riotguards]

and why lee's there many lee's out there don't think your the only lee's out there lol

and me? desperate? dear oh dear i just knew i was desperate enough to watch a HTWW video

nearly puked first few mins

[larsontic]

You're welcome.

[riotguards]

really you think that HANG ON your commenting on someone elses buiseness so stop butting in this is a video between HTWW and Cristoballs

so get out of here noob

[82abhilash]

Great, very intelligent.

[NwZ2]

A) You wrote a comment towards cristoballs and then referred to a *different* video (one that wasn't his) and just assumed that he'd some how be privy to this knowledge, despite the context of your comment in its entirety? Yet you're not even taking responsibility for that clear display of miscommunication.

Furthermore, if you think that *they* shouldn't butt in between the exchange, then why should *you* butt in between them butting in? Grasping at straws or defending your boytoy? Hmph!

[82abhilash]

I do not know which one you are talking about. I am not butting in. I am responding to comments.

[HowDaWorldTwerks]

I am a howtheworldworks sock account.

[TheAwedCouple]

I knew it, you fucks son of bitch! And I am a HowDaWorldTwerks sock account. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, infidel!

[82abhilash]

I one star videos critical of Lee because the videos tend to smear Lee rather than address his arguments, which seems to be of lesser priority. As for Lee himself, I do not approve of all his actions, but then again, I do not worship Lee the way most people here worship thunderf00t.

[HowDaWorldTwerks]

You CAN hold him responsible, given that he takes the time to remove ALL comments against him, whether serious, mocking, or constructively critiscizing, while allowing any and ALL comments negative about TJ, thunderf00t or anyone else. Hypocrisy much? He has enough to remove those, and obviously checks them, why does he allow others to be bashed but not himself. Don't embarrass yourself, puppet.

[82abhilash]

If that guy cannot take constructive criticism, he cannot use it to improve his own mind. Consequently he cannot put forward good arguments and will self destruct, which would be what you want. And no he cannot edit other people's criticism of thunderf00t. But he does approve them. So what? Thunderf00t your god cannot be criticized?

[tkstka]

HTWW is narsistic person who clearly is psyco.

he doesnt care about other people at all

[Eopyk]

Here HTWW shows of a narcistic side similear to VFX

All love from me Jasmine