In your last sentence you got it all wrong, the right expression is “keep your fucking religion out of our government” not your religion out of out fucking government, thus recognizing who is fucked up.
Blame Texas they have the most students in the United States so they have the most text books printed. So, whatever they want taught gets put in the text books. Sadly, this means nationally what Texas wants gets taught all over the US.
I want someone who believes in the mantra that "we are a Christian Nation" to tell me what this means. In other words--let's suppose we are, and let's suppose the argument is over. What's supposed to happen at that point? What do you see as flowing from that notion? Are Christian churches supposed to be favored? Given tax money? Only Christians can hold office or vote? Legislation must pass Biblical scrutiny? What is supposed to happen as a result of us being a "Christian Nation"?
I want someone who believes in the mantra that "we are a Christian Nation" to tell me what this means. In other words--let's suppose we are, and let's suppose the argument is over. What's supposed to happen at that point? What do you see as flowing from that notion? Are Christian churches supposed to be favored? Given tax money? Only Christians can hold office or vote? Legislation must pass Biblical scrutiny? What is supposed to happen as a result of us being a "Christian Nation"?
@rollingthunder1982 Hey Schmuck! Even if your thesis is true, the fact that the Declaration of Independence mentions God does not mean that the nation was founded on Christian principles. You see - now think real hard because I know that this is hard for you - Christians are not the only people in the world with belief in a god. And "God" is only used once. The quote is "...laws of Nature and Nature's God". It even refers to a different God than the Xtian god. Schmuck!
My liberty is grated first by God at birth and only recognized and upheld by the US constitution as a birth-right... Why, because if mere men or documents alone granted you liberty only a mere man or document can take it away! This is the distinction from American Liberty and why all men are created equal, evolution surly does not teach this but Christianity does. The basic notion of all American's liberty & freedoms are from the a birth-right by God/Creator and not from a secular view at all!
Answer this, anyone.?. Evolution does not teach us that all men are created equal, as a matter of fact, natural selection teaches us otherwise... Without the notion that ALL MEN BY GOD ARE CREATED EQUAL where and how are your rights protected beyond a piece of paper wrote by mere men? If these rights are only assumed by mere men, cannot men take them away? Give me a logical argument as to why mankind is born to be and has the right be free without the notion of a creator granting these rights?
@WILLTHEWGMAN "Give me a logical argument as to why mankind ... has the right be free without the notion of a creator granting these rights?" Fair enough. You just made that up, but it's not true. If mankind was born with the right to be free, there would be no oppression anywhere, which we all know isn't how the world works. Some of the world's most backward, poor countries pray to God in unison for help every day. As societies become more and more civilized, innate freedoms are granted.
@WILLTHEWGMAN Idiot. The Constitution was written by men. As such, the country has a Consitution in which freedom is the law. And, yes, men can take away freedom. Ask anyone living under dictatorial rule. Assuming you are an American (and boy is it embarrassing that there are people like you here), your country just helped topple a dictator in Iraq so that the people in Iraq can lead free lives.
"...and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them..., We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."
American Freedom & Liberty is more than just a paper written by men and defined as more than such with much more reach...
@WILLTHEWGMAN 1. Yes, it is a piece of paper written by men. It was not written by Jesus Christ.. 2. It is about the rights that men have that were taken away from them by men in Europe - despots. 3. The god that is mentioned is "Nature's God". NO religion is proclaimed. I realize that some myopes think that Christians have a monopoly on God, but the rest of us know better. 4. You quoted from the Declaration of INdepence. They were careful not to mention God in the Constitution
US Freedom & Liberty is derived from God & The God, not a god which is historically a non-secular view. The Declaration of Independence/U.S. Constitution are inseparable documents, the 1st explains from wince our rights are derived & the 2nd what are these rights. To claim the docs as only paper by men is false, destroy all of these docs & copies & we’ll still have all rights on them, they reach far beyond the words. I will use the 2nd admin to protect mine till death, will you?
@WILLTHEWGMAN Will grow up. Equality in human rights is not the same as equality in survivability. Of course men can take away your rights. Ask any despot or monarch. Or even a cop. Sheesh. You must worship a very cruel god for him to wait so many years to manifest freedom. Jesus hates people, does he?
You are just repeating yourself now... You have no understanding of God or the right to freedom or how it is protected under US laws and foundations. Making silly claims & statements may make you feel good but does not mean you know a word about the subjects you comment.
I am 40 years old, much grow but I got a strong feeling that you are only about 14 to 21 years old.
Why is your profile blocked, I cannot view it friedie1jeff? What are you afraid of besides truth & logic?
@WILLTHEWGMAN I have four college degrees, plus a formal religious education that included comparative religion courses. I am older than you by quite a number of years, and due to the possibility of lack of privacy, I block my profile. It is you who are undereducated and who cannot absorb the most fundamental information, nor do legitimate research into historical truth. Although not an attorney, I have taken law courses, also, as part of a master's program.
You need to learn the meaning of irrelevant, something you`ve seemed to have missed while obtaining your degrees as well as the meaning of assumptions in which you seem to use to derive facts from as you state in your claims. Sorry you are much older than you appear in words and communication but this is not my downfall but yours. Name calling is really 3rd grade no mater what angle your argument is coming from... btw, listing such attributes without good debate in them is, LOL
You state this.; 'You quoted from the Declaration of Indepence. They were careful not to mention God in the Constitution'
I had to explain to you that the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are inseparable founding American documents, the 1st explains from wince our rights are derived & the 2nd what these rights are. This is BASIC US history and your assumption above is baseless, who was careful for what again??? Where did you derive this assumption from????
@WILLTHEWGMAN Will, the CONSTITUTION is the law of the land. NOT the Decl or Independence. The Constitution is absolutely a secular document. Show me a Supreme Court decision that was based on the Declaration of Independence!!!! No, the Justices wrote from Constitutional Law. Show me a course in law school, in fact, called "Declaration of Independence and Constitutional Law"! You are rewriting American history as well as law. Read history books, as I have.
Again, the same US history lesson, why must I repeat this?
The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are inseparable founding documents, the 1st explains from wince our rights are derived & the 2nd what these rights are and what bodies of government do what ... I am not "rewriting" anything, this is basic knowledge.
You cannot have rights without an explanation of how such rights are assumed and derived... the Declaration of Independence servers as this.
@WILLTHEWGMAN You didn't respond to my comment. In making their decisions, the Supreme Court justices (or any other judge) do not reference the Declaration of Independence, but the secular law of the land. The Constitution. Your thesis, in fact, underscores what has been written in history books as the very deliberate writing of the Constitution as a completely secular document to be the laws of a secular nation. And it guarantees secularism and a multi-religious culture in the 1st Amendment
It is NOT in the Constitution read it for yourself. You don't know History and You don't know the Bill of Rights or the first Amendment, or the Declaration of Independence. You really need to read these. Stop your lies.
These morons don't consider Jefferson or Adams as founding fathers, but Calvin, Aquinas, and Blackstone. You know, 3 guys who never signed the Declaration or Constitution. The name 'God' wasn't added to money until after the Civil War. The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892, but 'one nation under God' wasn't added to it until 1954. These history revisionists are about as un-American you can get next to Al-Qaeda.
The book you got your information from was written in the 1920's and was not backed up in any way. The hundreds of documents and writings of the fore fathers show just the opposite of the book you read. They spoke of a God fearing nation many times and spoke of the Creator. Ask your self why a professor from the 1920.'s would write such a book knowing that is was full of lies. Don't follow the lies......loose the anger ......and research for yourself.....don't be afraid of the truth
" CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or the free excercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for the redress of grievances. " Doesn't speek any where about seperation of church and state. Amazing isn't it?
ya a great idea like bush said, "a great idea a nwo" the same yes or no. yes for me. thanks for getting in front of a camera and saying what is on your mind and some facts. u have courage. keeping going people are hearing u like. smile and peace to u.
@zeenasworld ya a great idea like bush said, "a great idea a nwo" the same yes or no. yes for me. thanks for getting in front of a camera and saying what is on your mind and some facts. u have courage. keeping going people are hearing u like. smile and peace to u.
Great video, many people are beginning to wake up, and as they do, the christian proselytizers become increasingly desperate because they realize their belief system is being shaken to the core, and rather than open their minds to new possibilities that might encourage them to share wealth and prosperity with others, they become more irrational, louder, ruder, and attempt to grasp control that is not theirs!
@rollingthunder1982 The pyramid with the eye is one of the most unholy symbols that exists. Christians hate that symbol more than anything. You are so mis-guided. In god we trust is just the same as In Lucifer we trust, up is the same as down. They didnt want anything to do with church politics, at all.
@rollingthunder1982 Look at all the pagan symbols on the 1$ bill. On the right side rear is the peace eagle, its also an Egyptian god-Horus. The left side rear is Al-Dajjal also Horus later named Lucifer by the Romans after Egypt fell. On the right front theres a Greek owl hidden there his name is Molock another pagan god owl. Nothing christian on the money at all.
@rollingthunder1982 I know for a fact that they were pagan. Look at the Washington memorial, its an Egyptian obolisk pagan symbol. Look at the top of DC, its Libertus-Athena whatever you want to call the godess who is also the statue of liberty. There are numerous pagan statues all over DC. The only one that might be Christian is the Moses carving, everything else is unrelated. Not anti-god but non-christian.
"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not "our"] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society."
John Adams (anti-Christian), Thomas Jefferson (refused to be identified as Christian), James Madison (anti-Christian), Abraham Lincoln (anti-Christian),
Susan B. Anthony (religious freedom advocate), Robert G. Ingersoll (anti-Christian), Ulysses S. Grant ("Keep the church and the state forever separated."), Theodore Roosevelt ("I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State")...
@rollingthunder1982 This is why there is a separation between church and state. Havent you ever seen the president do the horned hand salute to Satan. Or rock on as they call it nowadays. Its always been anti-christian. Its completely full of paganism sir.
@rollingthunder1982 You are dead wrong sir. On the George Washington monument, he is doing a Freemason pose. Up is the same as down, which means heaven is the same as hell. The founding fathers werent religious because Christianity started too many wars, they thought it was completely stupid.
They werent christians or atheists, they were freemasons. Whatever god you worship, there all the same. Christians have a god, but in freemasonry, Jesus is only a man. Most christians dont like the freemason thing at all. Atheists are allowed to be freemasons, but why would they join a club thats full of pagans.
Who is to say u believe in Jesus? Why doesn't the Bible say never suffer a witch cult to live then? You are a Baptist, ok thats cool now, what denomination of George Washington are u? I'm am not trying to make fun just making a point. There are no denominations of Washington because he was a real person so there is no debate over his life. Please explain Deuteronomy 13:7-12 I want to see how you twist these verse to seem good. I was raised Catholic as well now I am a proud Atheist.
I never said it reflects all Christians, I was saying how is this possible if you believe in Jesus? They did this because the Bible says to never suffer a witch to live. Do you believe in witches rolling? I do agree with you that any nut can fit text to fit their agenda. Now just a couple of more questions for you. What denomination, and what religion are you?
Yes I don't doubt there were Atheists in American since it began. Your point was Atheists groups. So please name me an Atheist group back then. Intentionally misinterpreted the Bible? Did u not read the 2 verses of many more, I gave u in the Bible, it is in their clear as day. If u want to laugh at the burning at the stake then please explain the Salem Witch Trials by the Christians. Yes and look at the Moral compass of the Inquisition and the 911 hijackers. Religion moral compass lol.
Good I am glad some Christians were against slavery in America. Yet some Christians defended slavery and used the Bible as an excuse, like the verse Ephesians 6:5. How many Atheist groups were there? NONE if they would have tried to speak up & form a group they might have been burned at the stake. You can speak out now because most people r not as delusional. The definition proves that there r other meanings of the word, that it does not refer to have a god.
Webster's dictionary Blessings (A means of happiness; that which promotes prosperity and welfare; a beneficent gift.) Read, read, read!! Slavery? The Christians ending it ok, maybe, but it was also the Christians that put it in America in the first place so not points there. See, so the further Christians get from their Bible the better they are. No more PUNISHING people with slavery including beating your slave to death. Your god makes Hitler look like a nice guy.
I will try to make this clear, blessings do not have to be from a god. EX Her father gave his blessing to the marriage. Here is how our government works the states have their own power but the 2nd a state laws controdicts the federal law the fed. law supersedes the state laws. EX If a state voted for slavery to be legal the federal law would supersede the state and stop the slavery. Beside your Bible supports slavery Exodus21:20-21 So lol at u again not slavery I am against the bible and slavery
Blessings OF not from liberty. Approval of the people hence the part about we the people. Why would they put in no religous test for office if they wanted a theology or leave out god in the constitution? Slavery is dead and buried now we are talking about back then. And a real big LOL!, I was laughing at YOU not slavery.
Your right about the years, I mixed them up sorry. Blessings can just mean approval fyi. The declaration of ind. was a document freeing us from Britian rule. Our country was founded on the constitution. We were escaping a theology and did not want to create another one that is why god is not mention in the constitution. The preamble to the constitution was the only thing that was supposed to be read with the constitution.Besides, all men are created equal, not slaves back then lol.
Now u are talking about 2 differant things 1 what the country is founded on and 1844 is not old enough. 2 Prayer in school which is our current topic. Lets put it like this the constitution from 1776 is what our country is founded on and does not mention god except for the date and it starts out "We the people". Did the founder just forget to put one nation under god? The answer is no they did this on purpose to separate a god and government. They did not want another theology.
I do not know what it will take for you to see this. This is why some Christian churches do not want religion in public schools, because what religion should it be? The correct answer is NONE, unless it a religious specific school, so you are warned before you enrole. Public school is not to be a religious school.
Here u go again spreading lies just like before when u said sliently when u ment to say aloud. The children can say Christmas, the teachers can not say Merry Christmas. No public school should promote any religious observance, that is all. U would be pretty pissed off if a teacher was saying a Quran prayer to students wouldn't u? So why can't u see that it should be out of school? If u what Jesus, Christmas, etc in schools there is a place for that, it is Catholic school not public school.
The evidence and source is very important to finding truth any lie can be believed without that. The court case you spoke of was from 1965, really don't you have anything more recent then something that is over 40 years ago! The way you were talking it made it sound like this happened yesterday. But the main question is what type of religious pray should be said by the teacher, Buddist, Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Mormon, Scientology, etc... or should they all be said just to be fair?
Hmmm obviously you trust your christian leaders too much, because you think they would never lie to you or keep you ignorant of the bible. It clearly says to kill in the bible look it up yourself. I will look up the court case of 1965 later.
Oh the humanity indeed, god says to kill anyone who works on the sabbath. (Exodus 31:12-15) And don't forget to kill someone who does not believe in the god of the bible. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12) I also notice you did not say where you got your info. on children not being able to pray silently over their lunch.
I do not know what schools you are talking about, but I 'll be the first to stand up for them to be able to silently pray over there lunch. Please tell me where you are getting this info. Ok so lets, let teachers say a prayer which kind of pray of which religion should it be. Please explain.
lol prayer is not taken out of our schools. You can pray before you take a test. You can pray with other students if you want. It is only school led pray that is removed. You do not want school led prayer, because Muslims will insist on having prayer to Allah if you have one about Jesus, just as one example. The same would happen for the Hindus, Buddist, etc... In 1963 school led prayer was made unconstitutional. In 1964 the civil rights act which outlawed discrimination was law. PROBLEM?
Sorry, but it does not matter if Mr. Barlow did this without the consent of the diplomats preparing the treaty, it still passed the senate unanimously and was signed by president John Adams. I did know that it was updated 8 years later. This treaty just shows how we thought back then. This is why god is not mentioned in our constitution. Artical 11 is not a lie because it was talking about our federal government which is secular. This keeps us from having a theocracy.
Taking credit for it and being in a far better position to explain it, such as in his famous letter pronouncing the "wall of separation between church and state", than you are, is different. He was explaining his contemporaries. Now, then, have you looked up the word "deism" yet to see the fallacy in your previous statement? In case you are dictionary-challenged, it means belief in a god. It does not mean being Christian, although some Christians think that they are the onlyy ones who do.
"Congress shall make no law establishing a religion nor prohibiting the free excercise thereof". Wait... I thought you said "separation of church and state "was in there? I don't see it? And please don't quote Thomas Jefferson as the expert on this issue. He's not and I'll prove it.
George Washington was not a deist. On multiple occasions he was interupted while praying. Washington was known for his consistent prayer life.
You should look at the treaty of tripoli. It unanimously passed the senate in 1796. Read the first sentence in artical 11. If you think for a second that this country was founded on god then please explain that sentence that UNANIMOUSLY passed the senate.
Idiot. The fact that Washington was caught praying demonstrated his deism!
He never went to church or practiced Chrstianity, however. Now, then, your snipe that Jefferson, an author of the Constitution, is not an expert on the issue and could not speak to it, is incredulous! You shouldn't be so insecure that you have to believe that the country that you live in was founded based on your personal religious beliefs.
the Bible says to dress modestly and have only 1 sex partner for life...yet all these hollywood actors/actresses have sex with several different guys in different movies, then the chrsitian cheerleaders still wear the shortest skirt they can find, any summer time in america: you will find: tanktops/miniskirt/bikini...
how can america be a christian nation: largest porno industry, hollywood is full of sexual immorality, among the highest divorce rates and teenage pregnancies in the world, people always wanting to get HIGH (sex, drugs, alcohol), individual laughs when their spouse dies so they can collect insurance money, racism, etc. america is the LEAST christian nation.
I agree with you, but you left out something. According to the Bible you are suppose to love your enemy yet in America we have one of the largest, if not the largest military in the world.
the people did not vote him in it was all just the illuminati and skul-&-bones what realy got that dam Obama in all religions are just lie their should be a world wide bann on all religions they were just made 4 money and power over the people to get more power and money religion should be taken out of all schools as well as everywere else its got its people by strings to control them like pupets
Great video, exactly what i feel!!! I love the fact that you say "it doesn't matter what they believed" because it's true. What matters is what they left for us in the Constitution, Federalist Papers, Emancipation Proclimation, etc., not their personal beliefs
would like to back to 18th century America. The good ol days when slaves did what they were told, massas were sexin up the women slaves. Their wives had a few more civil rights than their slaves. Oh yes, I bet you do wish you could live back then.
Well Scooter, thanks for letting me play with you. Good luck with that debate style you got goin. LMGDAO I am sure someone will find it challenging,
threats of doing your incantions, voodoo magic, witch craft whatever, go ahead I am not concerned with such silliness. I have been threatened by you Christ cult members for over 8 yrs now with your nonsense. If you can move the hand of your mythical being, then so be it. If you can make your mythical being's ghost change my mind or enlighten me, kudos to you. If you can get Jesus to intercede for me, oh happy day. But we both know your threat will come back void. Lastly, it figures you would
Just like last time, you run with your tail betwixt your bigoted little chicken legs.
LMGDAO
Last time I checked, it is not common sense to be a bigot, unless of course you are a fundaMENTAList Christ cult member. I have as much respect for god as I do leprechauns. If either are proven to exist, I will begin respecting them immediately. I respect many people who disagree with me, especially the ones who do not act like children when they are treated the way they treat others. As for your
More hypocrisy. LMGDAO you m ake this too easy for me. You whine & cry like a little girl when I say, "Jesus galsses" yet you quote men who did not want me to have any civil rights. WOW the irony is sweeter than sugar baby!!!
I love playing with you Scooter. You truly make me laugh & very happy that you live far away from me.
red herrings, straw men, sophistry, arguments from authority, arguments from ignorance & flat out lies. You use personal attacks then cry foul when they are returned. Funny you bring up debating because you do not debate. Quote mining is not a debate style, it is argument from authority. Now if you extrapolated on the quote & gave scientific relevance to it, or gave an analogy which brings more flavor to the quote, then fine. But all you do is say, "See I told ya so I told ya so."
Mor rhetoric without substance. However I will address my behavior. Think of me as a mirror. If you do not like what you see, then become introspective. You see, I treat others, as they treat me. When I first engage someone, I engage them with respect. They continue to get my respect until they lose it with their behavior. I know I know it seems childish but it is entertaining. Now you & I have a history. We tried this once before with the same reults. You reply with rhetoric, dogma, quote minin
Sure Bush was in good company, if he lived in 18th century America.
LMGDAO I have admitted over & over that yes, America was founded by a bunch of bigots. I do not deny this. Why do you continue in the same vein? Why would you want to expose the bigotry & hypocrisy of these men?
You are too stupid to even realize what you are doing. You think that by quoting bigots, hypocrites & xenophobes, you have proven something. I guess in the 50's you'd be quoting the Grand Wizard of the KKK proudly.
If you listen, he never mentions Christianity one time. He mentions conservatives, god, O'Reilly, Hannity & then draws a correlation between where most crimes are committed & where most churches are as well as church goers. As usual you Christers freak out when facts are recited in your presence, which may expose a weakness within your circle. I challenge anyone to watch the Faux News clip regarding this case then dispute their claims with facts, not whining like a little girl.
You can chant all you like about Barlow but you are absolutely unequivocally, wrong. Barlow did not add anything to the Arab copy or the Italian copy. He left out Article 11 however, when he translated the English. Yale did the work & it is online Scooter. Where is your reference? Where is your source? Fox News? LMGDAO
Now as for Corbett being taped, I concede I was wrong but it does not change the fact that he was only convicted on one count. Here is the vid on YT
2. a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
Again, whatever Rush feels about me, has no bearing on how I feel about myself. You are an absolute riot that you actually think you are proving anything or getting through to anyone. You must be a blast to party with eh? No thoughts of your own just a walking talking quote miner.
So what? Who cares what any founding father had to say about infidelity? It has no bearing on our conversation. Even if it did, I could care less because I do not care what others think, I think for myself. I do not quote mine & pretend that I know something. You have not read any of the people's entire works, that you quote from. You are a fraud & a wannabe.
Scooter, when I asked for a source regarding school's which do not allow personal prayer, your response was for me to go to any school & ask them. That is not citing a source, than is spewing rhetoric because you know there is no such school. You cannot cite one court case or one credible report on this accusation of yours. The irony again, is beautiful. You tell me I cannot comprehend, then you claim telling me to do a survey of schools, is citing a source. LMGDAO you are precious.
Well, how about posting their links then? All anyone has to do is utilize Google. As for your psychological projection onto me, I can't help you there other than to say, let it go. Don't get frustrated & angry with knowledge. Embrace it.
Asking me to investigate your paranoid delusions proves you are lying, as usual, & that you cannot prove a thing other than the fact that you are a liar. It is simple Scooter, just cite the sources which reported the story. We both know your sources are apologetic websites that you cut & paste from. You do not think for yourself at all nor do you investigate objective sources. BAM straight to AiG, Dr Dino, CARM, etc.. Never do you cite a credible newspaper, journal, periodical, etc..
As for Florey v Sioux Falls, you obviously did not research this after you got it from your favorite apologetic website did you? Same with Barlow. Too bad for you Scooter. You see, you can read Judge's decisions on any court case, right online. This was a case about celebrating Christian holidays in public schools
with Christian plays & Christian songs. You are so full of shit but I love it because it entertains me greatly. Btw Scooter, the case was overturned in 1980. As for Reed v Van Holen (1965), well Scooter, there is no such court case. You know what is funny about your ilk though? Your holy book of horrors clearly says to pray in silence, but you phonies like to be heard, just like the hypocrites Jesus spoke of. Weird huh? Oh well, nice try you lying hypocrite.
population in America, meanwhile Christians are at 80%. LOL & you guys are too weak & stupid to stop us. Muuuuaaaaaahahahahahaa
As for your other anonymous example, if you look at the parameters of the school project, it was about the occult & witchcraft. Ummm, though I think the Jesus cult is witchcraft, voodoo, cultic, etc., it is not considered by mainstream to be as such, ergo it did not fit within the parameters of the assignment.
he was convicted of one statement. I guess you would like to have seen Bush Sr. convicted for this response to the question, "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?" by a reporter in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. Bush replied, "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." I love the power you give us non cultists. We represent less than 10% of the
whereby U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said that although Corbett was only found to have violated the establishment clause in a single instance, he could not excuse or overlook the behavior, he said, "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context." Here is the statement Dr Corbett was convicted of, "Creationism is superstitious nonsense."
Now for you to bitch & whine about this, is ridiculous. First off you won the case, secondly
Sorry but Dr. Corbett was not taped. Try getting your stories from places other than Christian apologetic bullshit. Yes, a Christian family did go immediately to their lawyer, when their son told them a teacher badmouthed Creationism. The parents did not try to settle this like adults, they saw easy money & it was game over after that. After only one instance of Dr. Corbett calling Creationism irrational, they filed suit for damages against their son. It took about a yr to get to trial
Oh you big silly. Joel "the radical deist" Barlow's copy, is the only of three original copies, which does NOT contain Article 11. The Italian & the Arabic originals do contain Article 11. Barlow did not insert anything, he redacted. His copy goes from 10, straight to 12, there is no 11. As for him writing the Arabic version, that is nonsense. His only interest was the English copy but if you want to extrapolate your silly accusation, it suggests that Barlow pulled one over on the Arabic.
of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
As for me not conceding that America was founded by fundamentalists, I have already conceded that & admittted that 7 states still have state constitutions which remove civil rights from atheists.
Since you are so fond of quotes, here is one fer ya. It comes from a little document called the Treaty of Tripoli & it is article 11. It was the first document ever unanomously ratified by the Senate & remained as such for many years.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity,
Of course they cannot pass out evangelical candies. Guess what? Muslims cannot pass out evangelical candies either. Would you like to get a valentines that said, "Allah loves you!"?
LMGDAO
Your ilk is absolutely precious when you expose your persecution complexes. So anyhoo Scooter, where is the list of schools that do not allow students to pray to their god thingy?
We both know you cannot provide such a list so you are off the hook.
Offer examples of this supposed bigotry. Name court cases. Name schools who have been charged for not allowing Christians to pray to their god. You are not presenting any evidence you are merely making empty accusations. For once can you please cite a source which proves something other than someone's opinion.
Get a dictionary & look up the term, "quote mining." It does not matter what the faith of others are & proving quotes proves nothing other what their faith may be. If I quote mine Dawkins, will it bring any validity to the subject matter? Of course not. All you want to do is exchange quotes as if it somehow validates your faith. We both know you have not read any of your references, in depth anyway. All you are doing is cutting & pasting. WOW
First, quote mining is not a productive or accepted form of debate. It is an argument from authority therefore would not be allowed. Second, I do not know of one American public school, where students are not allowed to bring god. I have many nieces, nephews, cousins, etc. ranging from pre school to college. None of them complained that they could not pray to god in school & all of them are Christians. You claim to cite sources, where are your sources for this asinine revisionist history?
with the highest per capita rates of the aforementioned, who's population also identifies itself as Christian, over 75% of the 60, are Christian. Of the top 20, 18 are Christian. Again America, 78% Christian, 80% American prison population. Atheist/agonstic, less than 10% of American population, less than 0.02% of prison population.
sources:
CIA Wolrd FactBook
NationMaster
Federal Bureau of Prisons
Regardless of any of this, it really does not matter much.
constitutions with bias against atheists. If I were you I would not exactly be proud of this. This does not bode well for your argument that a Christian nation is good or that the bible teaches morality. America is #1 per capita, in most areas that Christians love to blame atheists for, such as, addiction, violence, rape, thievery, murder, murder with gun, abortions, teen pregnancies, etc.. America claims to be 78% Christian & 90% god believing. Also note that of the top 60 nations in the world
As for having a quote mining war with you on who was or was not Christian, deist, agnostic, etc., I will not as it is an utter bore & proves nothing other than Google works wonders. I concede that the vast majority of our founding fathers were Christian fundamentalists. I also concede that many of the early state constitutions, outlawed atheists holding public office & stripped them of their civil rights, using Christianity & the bible as their rationalization. Seven states still have Christian
What is truly sad is, we both know that you cannot respond other than to claim you already have. You could easily cut & paste your response, but you won't, unless it is one of those with mere rhetoric & dogma, no substance or sources cited. You still have not shown me where to get the list of absolute morality. For some reason you find it necessary to hold back & taunt me with your wisdom.
Ever hear of psychological projection? You suffer badly from it, perhaps Google could help you out? Anyhoo Scooter you are making my point only through semantics. The fact remains that according to the bible, god taught his children that it was OK to commit genocide on non Israelites. That was a moral lesson from your god thingy. Now then instead of giving me more dogma, explain how morality changed not only from the perspective of the Mosaic Laws, but also from the supposed orders god gave?
moved by the philosophical opinion of others in regards to superstition or mythology. I am more concerned with facts, truths & evidence than am with keeping up with the Jones'. I know this idea is new to you & it scares you but it is true some people do think independantly from their predeccesors. Oddly enough though, you quoted another person who had Christian bias. It is like me quoting Dawkins to you, so the fuck what? Did it cause you any pause? Hell no because you need your faith. It is not
OK OK, I will let you free from your corner. We both know however, that morality was brought onto this thread by you, not me, when you asserted that morality is absolute. Sorry for bringing up facts again I know how they are disturbing to you.
As for your continual use of arguments from authority & poor quote mining skills, it bores me. You could list a million respected people from throughout history, in front of me & proclaim the bible is truth. It won't matter as I think for myself. I am not
You then go on to create another false dichotomy, & a rather arrogant one at that, which is claiming that anyone who disgrees with your personal revisionist history & bias interpretations, is woefully ignorant, frustratingly stubborn or wilfully stupid. The subject I responded to was morality. The reason you do not want to address it is because you are cornered & you have no logical way out of your corner, without imposing hocus pocus & more rhetoric. Sorry Scooter but you suck at this still
There you go again with dogma & rhetoric. The fact remains that the bible is chock full of examples of people using the biblical history, i.e. Israelite wars. to justify their own wars. The first 4 commandments is always there #1 reason for war. Why? Because the Israelite history, i.e. the bible, asserts that god would order them to smite anyone non Israelite. You claim this is just analogy, but that is you exposing more of your ignorance & childlike ways of thinking.
I am neither antiSemitic or antiChristian. I am however, antiLiars. The Mosaic Laws were not meant to be analogous you silly girl. Secondly, if the wars portrayed in the bible did not happen, then what did? Do you still not like making lists? I ask because I will need a list of what is historic & what is analogous warring, raping, theiving, lying, slave beating, adulterous, incestuous, etc. It is again noted that you have not responded with substance or evidence of where I am specificaly wrong.
Your cult does indeed stem from a late bronze-age cult, i.e. the Israelites. It is the evolution of Judaism. As for laws being reflective of morality, I am still waiting for you to tell me why Mosaic laws allowed for the beating of your slave, as long as you did not kill it. It allowed for killing your unruly child. It allowed for a woman's hands to be cut off if she accidentally grabs the testicles of the man beating up her husband. Ironically, you are the one making silly rebuttals.
I was the first person to leave a comment on your home page silly. You challenged me to a dialogue on ID & the bible. After about 2 PM exdchanges, you quit out of frustration. I kept refuting you with facts. For example & coincidentally btw, the first thing I busted you on was your attempt at argument from authority & quote mining Jefferson, Franklin, Darwin, Einstein, etc.. A yr later I find you here doing the same goddamn thing. It must suck having to lie in order to keep your faith.
WOW a year later & you are still trolling vlogs proselytizing the same lies & absurdities. Do you ever get bored of getting your ass handed to you? You still quote mine, you still use logical fallacies & you still have a persecution complex. What a pity.
My arguments are getting silly? Like we wouldn't have figured out that murder and theft are detrimental to society without your Bible? Like murder and theft aren't condemned in virtually every religious and non-religious society. If you honestly people are only good because they are afraid they'll be punished by god for murdering others, then you have a very sad perception of this world. And if you're only holding back from such immoral actions because of fear of god, you're a terrible person.
Morality does not stem from religion. Morality has evolved past your bronze-age religion. This is why divorce is not illegal, there are laws against child abuse, eating shellfish is legal, women have equal rights, slavery is abolished, and rape victims aren't forced to marry their attackers. Such legislation exists not because of the Bible, but in spite of it. Morality stems from empathy, reason and perception of needs and wants.
If morality comes from the bible, where in the bible can I find a complete list of morals? I have asked literally thousands of Christ cult members this question & none can answer me. I have also Googled it & came up with nothing. I even spent yrs studying the bible in Hebrew & Greek & came up with bupkis. Some have tried to claim that the ten commandments is the list, but that is pathetically incomplete. Not to mention the first 4 have caused countless wars & genocides, as well as inquisitions
within the Christian cult itself, i.e. Catholic Protestant wars. Here is something perplexing. Why is it that it was moral for the Israelites to keep the virgin girls of a population they just violently destroyed, yet today we have laws against such barbaric behavior? Or how about when it was moral to stone to death, the victim of rape? Today, not so much. Or how about when it was moral to stone to death, someone who was mixing fabrics? Morality has in fact changed ergo it is subjective. Sorry.
Moral teachings do not equate to religion. One of the foundations of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is divine. Jefferson and Franklin both believed the moral teachings of Jesus were ahead of their time, but neither men believed Jesus was god. To say they were Christian men because they thought Jesus teachings were moral is ridiculous.
"I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity." - Franklin
Yes Franklin never doubted the existence of a deity. A deity existing without intervention or divine revelation.
"Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist." - Franklin
You do realize that when he says the religion of Jesus he is not talking about the Christianity you're familiar with? He's talking only of Jesus' moral teachings and nothing of Jesus being divine. That is why when Jefferson REWROTE the Bible, he took out all of the miracles and claims of divinity.
You don't even understand the meaning behind the quotes you use.
No they were not Christians. John Adams and Robert Paine were both Unitarian Congregationalists. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were both Deists.
Did you watch this video? Did you read any of these comments? Adams was Unitarian ie. didn't believe Jesus was divine. Franklin and Jefferson were deists, ie. didn't believe in the Christian god, or any interventionist divinely revealed god. However, despite various backgrounds, all of the founding father (even the Christians such as Washington), were secularists who believed in a separation of church and state. There is no mention of Jesus in the Constitution for a reason.
"Deism, it is clear, is a form of theism." - Dictionary of Philosophy edited by D D Runes, 15th ed., rev., Philosophical Library, New York, 1960.
William Tindal, the deist, in "Christianity As Old As the Creation" makes the point that God will judge men because they are rational and He will judge them in proportion to the use they make of their reason. Perhaps you should seriously consider Tindal's advice.
The reason you refer to is only used to suggest a creator, not a divine revelation type god.
"Deism is the recognition of a universal creative force greater than that demonstrated by mankind, supported by personal observation of laws and designs in nature and the universe, perpetuated and validated by the innate ability of human reason coupled with the rejection of claims made by individuals and organized religions of having received special divine revelation." - World Union of Deists
That is one of the reasons why Deism's claims are in doubt. As Jonathan Edwards so brilliantly observed, if Tindal's light of nature is all sufficient and we do not need revelation to know God then why is Tindal at pains to make the point. It would appear that the arguments of Deists are "wholly needless and vain..."
I agree that the arguments of Deists are needless. As well as the claims of Theism.
However, if there is a god, he has purposely gone out of his way play peek-a-boo with the world, so I find the arguments for Deism stronger than the arguments for Theism.
To me the very idea of an absolute God as the creative force of the universe moves the mind from darkness to light, from chaos to reason. This is not so much because I am impressed with the classical arguments as with the reasoning of men like Hegel, Kant, or Whitehead. But I particularly like Josiah Royce and Francis Herbert Bradley. God as the very author of history suggests power rather than a game of hide and seek.
Although the detail of the formation of the American governments ... It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
You are not making sense with your doubletalk! If it does not matter what people (Presidents) believe, then why are you anxious about what Christian's claim? Yes, the faith of our political leaders does matter. It matters because they rule over us. Our history shows that the vast majority of the founders held orthodox views. In some states, people who did not profess the Christian faith were not permitted to hold public office.
The founding fathers of the Constitutional Convention were Congregatinalists, Episcopalians, Dutch Reformed, Presbyterian, Quaker, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, and Methodist according to their late life confessions. Out of 55 men, three professed Deism but even this number is questionable. So Deism ranked at 5% or less.
Perhaps I should have said the greatest and most influential founding fathers were deists. I mention Franklin and Jefferson were deists (possibly Adams too, but at the very least Unitarian), and your response is that Read, Chase, Paca, Carroll, Sherman, Morton, Gwinnett and Hooper and were theists.
But that's getting beside the point. Despite their different backgrounds and different faiths, they were above all secularists.
"Theists?" I am not aware of any founding fathers who were not theists and did not believe that God ruled over government. Even Thomas Paine was a theist. Thus, the idea that even the most liberal founders like Jefferson and Franklin were "secularists" is simply rubbish.
Perhaps you should look up the word theist. You admitted that some founding fathers were deists, and then said you're not aware that some were not theists.
You should also look up secularist. It is entirely possible for someone to be a devout Christian, and a secularist. You can believe whatever contrived fairy tales you like and still keep them separate from legislation.
My point was that I did not know of any founders who did not believe in God or were not theists. I also did not recall any founders who did not view God as the foundation for government. The first know Atheist "paradise" was the Soviet Union. Everyone in the 18th Century understood that religion and morality affected legistation. It still does. Legislation is ALWAYS based upon somebody's view of religion or morality.
How can you say you didn't know any founders were not theists when you stated early that some were deists? Deists are NOT theists.
Additionally, religion and morality are not synonymous, and you should know that.
Morality stems from empathy, compassion, and altruism. One can be moral without the fear of a great security camera in the sky, or threat of eternal hellfire.
There will always be good people and bad people, but for a good person to do evil requires the illusion of religion.
I have never heard anything so absurd as to say that "Deists are not theists." On what basis can that be true? A theist is one who believes in God or a god. Deists believe in different things but I have never heard of a "Deist" who did believe in some sort of god.
Religion is not necessarily the basis for morality although it usually is the basis for law and and morality.
Deists believe in a non-interventionist creator, that created the universe and moved on investing no further time or thought in the happenings of this world.
Theists believe in an interventionist god that watches all of us, hears the murmurs of every individual, cares about our sex lives and provides some sort of guidance or plan.
Deists are NOT theists, and to think otherwise shows a profound misunderstanding of the terms.
Both deism and theism cover broad areas of thought. Deism originally arose as a sect of Christianity and the word was formed from the Latin word for God. Theism came from the Greek word for god. Deists are not necessarily non-interventionist and we can tell by the prayers of Franklin and other founders that, whatever they believed, they did not have "non-interventionism" in mind.
Deism - belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
Ben Franklin read a book refuting the arguments of Deism and found the arguments to be better than the refutations. He wrote that he had since become a Deist.
OllyakaEnfillade, Like Humpty Dumpty, you apparently believe words only mean what you say they mean. I am afraid you are living in Wonderland. The word Deism has a broader meaning. Franklin, who was regarded as a Deist, did not believe in a God who "remained indifferent" to the world he had created. He stated at the Convention that "God governs in the affairs of men."
You're right, I believe words say what I say they mean /sarcasm. What I say they mean, and what every dictionary says they mean. The last few replies of yours could easily have been prevented if you had just looked up the term Deism, accepted your error, and moved on in hopes of furthering your knowledge. But when presented with something that contradicts your belief, you dismiss it like most Christians do.
"They" believed that all authority came from God. Government recieved its authority from God. There are three governments: family, church, and state and their authority to govern comes from God.
Neither Jefferson nor any of our founding fathers believed that there should be a "wall of separation" to imprision the church. Jefferson's "wall" was intended to protect the church from the state. Study the details of history. I recommend reading "Thomas Jefferson and the Wall of Separation Between Church and State" by Daniel L. Dreisbach, c2002.
Christianity permeates America's founding from colonial charters onward. That American is a Christian nation has been declared by state and federal courts. "this is a Christian nation ..." (Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States - 1892 - United States Supreme Court)
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" Article 11 of the US with Tripoli.
"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State".- Thomas Jefferson
Paedophiles aren't gay you retard, they're paedophiles, many are married with their own children, you ignorant fucker. Paedophiles are attracted to children, not just boys. By your argument heterosexuals
priests should be raping little girls while the homosexual ones rape boys, but its doesnt work that way.
beatbuddy: this info has nothing to do with David Barton. I found it on multiple websites,none of which were David Bartons. If that's all you have you don't have much.BTW, how bout responding to the FACT that what I posted is correct.
6th Circuit Court of Appeals: First Amendment does not demand wall between church and state: December 20, 2005,
" the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit declared, "The First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state." The court also criticized the ACLU's repeated reference to the construct, calling it "tiresome" and "extra-constitutional."
ctypro: read the treaty of tripoli 1805 and try to find your quote. When the treaty was rewritten yrs later,when America had a stronger navy, article 11 was left out. I guess they felt they really were a Christian nation!
In your last sentence you got it all wrong, the right expression is “keep your fucking religion out of our government” not your religion out of out fucking government, thus recognizing who is fucked up.
Evolvedprimate 1 year ago
Blame Texas they have the most students in the United States so they have the most text books printed. So, whatever they want taught gets put in the text books. Sadly, this means nationally what Texas wants gets taught all over the US.
laxguy22655 1 year ago
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I want someone who believes in the mantra that "we are a Christian Nation" to tell me what this means. In other words--let's suppose we are, and let's suppose the argument is over. What's supposed to happen at that point? What do you see as flowing from that notion? Are Christian churches supposed to be favored? Given tax money? Only Christians can hold office or vote? Legislation must pass Biblical scrutiny? What is supposed to happen as a result of us being a "Christian Nation"?
DandAinTac 1 year ago
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I want someone who believes in the mantra that "we are a Christian Nation" to tell me what this means. In other words--let's suppose we are, and let's suppose the argument is over. What's supposed to happen at that point? What do you see as flowing from that notion? Are Christian churches supposed to be favored? Given tax money? Only Christians can hold office or vote? Legislation must pass Biblical scrutiny? What is supposed to happen as a result of us being a "Christian Nation"?
DandAinTac 1 year ago
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friedie1jeff 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 Hey Schmuck! Even if your thesis is true, the fact that the Declaration of Independence mentions God does not mean that the nation was founded on Christian principles. You see - now think real hard because I know that this is hard for you - Christians are not the only people in the world with belief in a god. And "God" is only used once. The quote is "...laws of Nature and Nature's God". It even refers to a different God than the Xtian god. Schmuck!
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." -- The Treaty of Tripoli
Religious controversies are always productive of more ... hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.--George Washington
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible.--Benjamin Franklin
Question with boldness even the existence of a god--Thomas Jefferson
Sorry. One more atheist quoting, I suppose. :)
bigrobdeezey 1 year ago
My liberty is grated first by God at birth and only recognized and upheld by the US constitution as a birth-right... Why, because if mere men or documents alone granted you liberty only a mere man or document can take it away! This is the distinction from American Liberty and why all men are created equal, evolution surly does not teach this but Christianity does. The basic notion of all American's liberty & freedoms are from the a birth-right by God/Creator and not from a secular view at all!
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
Answer this, anyone.?. Evolution does not teach us that all men are created equal, as a matter of fact, natural selection teaches us otherwise... Without the notion that ALL MEN BY GOD ARE CREATED EQUAL where and how are your rights protected beyond a piece of paper wrote by mere men? If these rights are only assumed by mere men, cannot men take them away? Give me a logical argument as to why mankind is born to be and has the right be free without the notion of a creator granting these rights?
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN "Give me a logical argument as to why mankind ... has the right be free without the notion of a creator granting these rights?" Fair enough. You just made that up, but it's not true. If mankind was born with the right to be free, there would be no oppression anywhere, which we all know isn't how the world works. Some of the world's most backward, poor countries pray to God in unison for help every day. As societies become more and more civilized, innate freedoms are granted.
bigrobdeezey 1 year ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN Idiot. The Constitution was written by men. As such, the country has a Consitution in which freedom is the law. And, yes, men can take away freedom. Ask anyone living under dictatorial rule. Assuming you are an American (and boy is it embarrassing that there are people like you here), your country just helped topple a dictator in Iraq so that the people in Iraq can lead free lives.
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
@friedie1jeff
"...and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them..., We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."
American Freedom & Liberty is more than just a paper written by men and defined as more than such with much more reach...
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN 1. Yes, it is a piece of paper written by men. It was not written by Jesus Christ.. 2. It is about the rights that men have that were taken away from them by men in Europe - despots. 3. The god that is mentioned is "Nature's God". NO religion is proclaimed. I realize that some myopes think that Christians have a monopoly on God, but the rest of us know better. 4. You quoted from the Declaration of INdepence. They were careful not to mention God in the Constitution
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
@friedie1jeff
US Freedom & Liberty is derived from God & The God, not a god which is historically a non-secular view. The Declaration of Independence/U.S. Constitution are inseparable documents, the 1st explains from wince our rights are derived & the 2nd what are these rights. To claim the docs as only paper by men is false, destroy all of these docs & copies & we’ll still have all rights on them, they reach far beyond the words. I will use the 2nd admin to protect mine till death, will you?
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN Will grow up. Equality in human rights is not the same as equality in survivability. Of course men can take away your rights. Ask any despot or monarch. Or even a cop. Sheesh. You must worship a very cruel god for him to wait so many years to manifest freedom. Jesus hates people, does he?
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
@friedie1jeff
You are just repeating yourself now... You have no understanding of God or the right to freedom or how it is protected under US laws and foundations. Making silly claims & statements may make you feel good but does not mean you know a word about the subjects you comment.
I am 40 years old, much grow but I got a strong feeling that you are only about 14 to 21 years old.
Why is your profile blocked, I cannot view it friedie1jeff? What are you afraid of besides truth & logic?
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN I have four college degrees, plus a formal religious education that included comparative religion courses. I am older than you by quite a number of years, and due to the possibility of lack of privacy, I block my profile. It is you who are undereducated and who cannot absorb the most fundamental information, nor do legitimate research into historical truth. Although not an attorney, I have taken law courses, also, as part of a master's program.
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
@friedie1jeff
You need to learn the meaning of irrelevant, something you`ve seemed to have missed while obtaining your degrees as well as the meaning of assumptions in which you seem to use to derive facts from as you state in your claims. Sorry you are much older than you appear in words and communication but this is not my downfall but yours. Name calling is really 3rd grade no mater what angle your argument is coming from... btw, listing such attributes without good debate in them is, LOL
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
@friedie1jeff
You state this.; 'You quoted from the Declaration of Indepence. They were careful not to mention God in the Constitution'
I had to explain to you that the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are inseparable founding American documents, the 1st explains from wince our rights are derived & the 2nd what these rights are. This is BASIC US history and your assumption above is baseless, who was careful for what again??? Where did you derive this assumption from????
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN Will, the CONSTITUTION is the law of the land. NOT the Decl or Independence. The Constitution is absolutely a secular document. Show me a Supreme Court decision that was based on the Declaration of Independence!!!! No, the Justices wrote from Constitutional Law. Show me a course in law school, in fact, called "Declaration of Independence and Constitutional Law"! You are rewriting American history as well as law. Read history books, as I have.
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
@friedie1jeff
Again, the same US history lesson, why must I repeat this?
The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are inseparable founding documents, the 1st explains from wince our rights are derived & the 2nd what these rights are and what bodies of government do what ... I am not "rewriting" anything, this is basic knowledge.
You cannot have rights without an explanation of how such rights are assumed and derived... the Declaration of Independence servers as this.
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN You didn't respond to my comment. In making their decisions, the Supreme Court justices (or any other judge) do not reference the Declaration of Independence, but the secular law of the land. The Constitution. Your thesis, in fact, underscores what has been written in history books as the very deliberate writing of the Constitution as a completely secular document to be the laws of a secular nation. And it guarantees secularism and a multi-religious culture in the 1st Amendment
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
Some people think that Jesus Christ wrote the Constitution of the United States.
friedie1jeff 1 year ago
@friedie1jeff Well, not by himself.
bigrobdeezey 1 year ago
It is NOT in the Constitution read it for yourself. You don't know History and You don't know the Bill of Rights or the first Amendment, or the Declaration of Independence. You really need to read these. Stop your lies.
LambLion777 1 year ago
These morons don't consider Jefferson or Adams as founding fathers, but Calvin, Aquinas, and Blackstone. You know, 3 guys who never signed the Declaration or Constitution. The name 'God' wasn't added to money until after the Civil War. The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892, but 'one nation under God' wasn't added to it until 1954. These history revisionists are about as un-American you can get next to Al-Qaeda.
SnatchTease 1 year ago
The book you got your information from was written in the 1920's and was not backed up in any way. The hundreds of documents and writings of the fore fathers show just the opposite of the book you read. They spoke of a God fearing nation many times and spoke of the Creator. Ask your self why a professor from the 1920.'s would write such a book knowing that is was full of lies. Don't follow the lies......loose the anger ......and research for yourself.....don't be afraid of the truth
vklmno 1 year ago
amendment 1 '
" CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or the free excercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for the redress of grievances. " Doesn't speek any where about seperation of church and state. Amazing isn't it?
davidtinney1 1 year ago
@davidtinney1 Really? Where does it say anything about christianity? I must have missed that.
MGCAUSTIN 1 year ago
LOL Tom Paine was a christian? they dont read much do they..
shepshepshep 1 year ago
ya a great idea like bush said, "a great idea a nwo" the same yes or no. yes for me. thanks for getting in front of a camera and saying what is on your mind and some facts. u have courage. keeping going people are hearing u like. smile and peace to u.
zeenasworld 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 yes pagan. look up eye of horus.
zeenasworld 1 year ago
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zeenasworld 1 year ago
@zeenasworld ya a great idea like bush said, "a great idea a nwo" the same yes or no. yes for me. thanks for getting in front of a camera and saying what is on your mind and some facts. u have courage. keeping going people are hearing u like. smile and peace to u.
zeenasworld 1 year ago
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George Washington in 1796 Speech "the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"
LittoMoonLight 1 year ago
Great video, many people are beginning to wake up, and as they do, the christian proselytizers become increasingly desperate because they realize their belief system is being shaken to the core, and rather than open their minds to new possibilities that might encourage them to share wealth and prosperity with others, they become more irrational, louder, ruder, and attempt to grasp control that is not theirs!
samuski36 1 year ago
Great video.
thekookaii 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 I dont hate anything, im just trying to show you how it really is.
shane4896 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 The pyramid with the eye is one of the most unholy symbols that exists. Christians hate that symbol more than anything. You are so mis-guided. In god we trust is just the same as In Lucifer we trust, up is the same as down. They didnt want anything to do with church politics, at all.
shane4896 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 Look at all the pagan symbols on the 1$ bill. On the right side rear is the peace eagle, its also an Egyptian god-Horus. The left side rear is Al-Dajjal also Horus later named Lucifer by the Romans after Egypt fell. On the right front theres a Greek owl hidden there his name is Molock another pagan god owl. Nothing christian on the money at all.
shane4896 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 I know for a fact that they were pagan. Look at the Washington memorial, its an Egyptian obolisk pagan symbol. Look at the top of DC, its Libertus-Athena whatever you want to call the godess who is also the statue of liberty. There are numerous pagan statues all over DC. The only one that might be Christian is the Moses carving, everything else is unrelated. Not anti-god but non-christian.
shane4896 1 year ago
@shane4896 Look at my page, it has the American logo and the Egyptian Horus. Look how similar they are.
shane4896 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 You seem to have gotten some biased information there.
Even George Washington insisted
on complete separation of church and state,
saying
"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not "our"] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society."
Biased factoids are not facts.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 Don't forget Benjamin Franklin (atheist),
John Adams (anti-Christian), Thomas Jefferson (refused to be identified as Christian), James Madison (anti-Christian), Abraham Lincoln (anti-Christian),
Susan B. Anthony (religious freedom advocate), Robert G. Ingersoll (anti-Christian), Ulysses S. Grant ("Keep the church and the state forever separated."), Theodore Roosevelt ("I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State")...
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 "Typical atheist hatred."
It's okay.
I know that you WOULD refute my facts...
if you could.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 This is why there is a separation between church and state. Havent you ever seen the president do the horned hand salute to Satan. Or rock on as they call it nowadays. Its always been anti-christian. Its completely full of paganism sir.
shane4896 1 year ago
@rollingthunder1982 You are dead wrong sir. On the George Washington monument, he is doing a Freemason pose. Up is the same as down, which means heaven is the same as hell. The founding fathers werent religious because Christianity started too many wars, they thought it was completely stupid.
shane4896 1 year ago
Anybody who is not a member of your religion
has no reason to take any notice whatsoever
of what is written in a Bronze-Age book of myth.
Aside from the unicorns and talking snakes and donkeys
and the requirement to practice ritualized cannibalism
we see that your god commanded his people
to rip little girls from the bloody arms of their dead mothers
and take them home to share them with YHVH's priests.
This is the book you are basing your morality on?
How obscene.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
They werent christians or atheists, they were freemasons. Whatever god you worship, there all the same. Christians have a god, but in freemasonry, Jesus is only a man. Most christians dont like the freemason thing at all. Atheists are allowed to be freemasons, but why would they join a club thats full of pagans.
shane4896 1 year ago
Who is to say u believe in Jesus? Why doesn't the Bible say never suffer a witch cult to live then? You are a Baptist, ok thats cool now, what denomination of George Washington are u? I'm am not trying to make fun just making a point. There are no denominations of Washington because he was a real person so there is no debate over his life. Please explain Deuteronomy 13:7-12 I want to see how you twist these verse to seem good. I was raised Catholic as well now I am a proud Atheist.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
I never said it reflects all Christians, I was saying how is this possible if you believe in Jesus? They did this because the Bible says to never suffer a witch to live. Do you believe in witches rolling? I do agree with you that any nut can fit text to fit their agenda. Now just a couple of more questions for you. What denomination, and what religion are you?
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Yes I don't doubt there were Atheists in American since it began. Your point was Atheists groups. So please name me an Atheist group back then. Intentionally misinterpreted the Bible? Did u not read the 2 verses of many more, I gave u in the Bible, it is in their clear as day. If u want to laugh at the burning at the stake then please explain the Salem Witch Trials by the Christians. Yes and look at the Moral compass of the Inquisition and the 911 hijackers. Religion moral compass lol.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Good I am glad some Christians were against slavery in America. Yet some Christians defended slavery and used the Bible as an excuse, like the verse Ephesians 6:5. How many Atheist groups were there? NONE if they would have tried to speak up & form a group they might have been burned at the stake. You can speak out now because most people r not as delusional. The definition proves that there r other meanings of the word, that it does not refer to have a god.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Webster's dictionary Blessings (A means of happiness; that which promotes prosperity and welfare; a beneficent gift.) Read, read, read!! Slavery? The Christians ending it ok, maybe, but it was also the Christians that put it in America in the first place so not points there. See, so the further Christians get from their Bible the better they are. No more PUNISHING people with slavery including beating your slave to death. Your god makes Hitler look like a nice guy.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
I will try to make this clear, blessings do not have to be from a god. EX Her father gave his blessing to the marriage. Here is how our government works the states have their own power but the 2nd a state laws controdicts the federal law the fed. law supersedes the state laws. EX If a state voted for slavery to be legal the federal law would supersede the state and stop the slavery. Beside your Bible supports slavery Exodus21:20-21 So lol at u again not slavery I am against the bible and slavery
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Blessings OF not from liberty. Approval of the people hence the part about we the people. Why would they put in no religous test for office if they wanted a theology or leave out god in the constitution? Slavery is dead and buried now we are talking about back then. And a real big LOL!, I was laughing at YOU not slavery.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Your right about the years, I mixed them up sorry. Blessings can just mean approval fyi. The declaration of ind. was a document freeing us from Britian rule. Our country was founded on the constitution. We were escaping a theology and did not want to create another one that is why god is not mention in the constitution. The preamble to the constitution was the only thing that was supposed to be read with the constitution.Besides, all men are created equal, not slaves back then lol.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Now u are talking about 2 differant things 1 what the country is founded on and 1844 is not old enough. 2 Prayer in school which is our current topic. Lets put it like this the constitution from 1776 is what our country is founded on and does not mention god except for the date and it starts out "We the people". Did the founder just forget to put one nation under god? The answer is no they did this on purpose to separate a god and government. They did not want another theology.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
I do not know what it will take for you to see this. This is why some Christian churches do not want religion in public schools, because what religion should it be? The correct answer is NONE, unless it a religious specific school, so you are warned before you enrole. Public school is not to be a religious school.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Here u go again spreading lies just like before when u said sliently when u ment to say aloud. The children can say Christmas, the teachers can not say Merry Christmas. No public school should promote any religious observance, that is all. U would be pretty pissed off if a teacher was saying a Quran prayer to students wouldn't u? So why can't u see that it should be out of school? If u what Jesus, Christmas, etc in schools there is a place for that, it is Catholic school not public school.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
The evidence and source is very important to finding truth any lie can be believed without that. The court case you spoke of was from 1965, really don't you have anything more recent then something that is over 40 years ago! The way you were talking it made it sound like this happened yesterday. But the main question is what type of religious pray should be said by the teacher, Buddist, Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Mormon, Scientology, etc... or should they all be said just to be fair?
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
P.S. Christian leaders love to lead people astray so they can make money off of them.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Hmmm obviously you trust your christian leaders too much, because you think they would never lie to you or keep you ignorant of the bible. It clearly says to kill in the bible look it up yourself. I will look up the court case of 1965 later.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Oh the humanity indeed, god says to kill anyone who works on the sabbath. (Exodus 31:12-15) And don't forget to kill someone who does not believe in the god of the bible. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12) I also notice you did not say where you got your info. on children not being able to pray silently over their lunch.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
I do not know what schools you are talking about, but I 'll be the first to stand up for them to be able to silently pray over there lunch. Please tell me where you are getting this info. Ok so lets, let teachers say a prayer which kind of pray of which religion should it be. Please explain.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
lol prayer is not taken out of our schools. You can pray before you take a test. You can pray with other students if you want. It is only school led pray that is removed. You do not want school led prayer, because Muslims will insist on having prayer to Allah if you have one about Jesus, just as one example. The same would happen for the Hindus, Buddist, etc... In 1963 school led prayer was made unconstitutional. In 1964 the civil rights act which outlawed discrimination was law. PROBLEM?
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Sorry, but it does not matter if Mr. Barlow did this without the consent of the diplomats preparing the treaty, it still passed the senate unanimously and was signed by president John Adams. I did know that it was updated 8 years later. This treaty just shows how we thought back then. This is why god is not mentioned in our constitution. Artical 11 is not a lie because it was talking about our federal government which is secular. This keeps us from having a theocracy.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Taking credit for it and being in a far better position to explain it, such as in his famous letter pronouncing the "wall of separation between church and state", than you are, is different. He was explaining his contemporaries. Now, then, have you looked up the word "deism" yet to see the fallacy in your previous statement? In case you are dictionary-challenged, it means belief in a god. It does not mean being Christian, although some Christians think that they are the onlyy ones who do.
friedie1jeff 2 years ago
Correct for once. Jesus is not mentioned in the Constitution. God is. That is deism by definition.
friedie1jeff 2 years ago
"Congress shall make no law establishing a religion nor prohibiting the free excercise thereof". Wait... I thought you said "separation of church and state "was in there? I don't see it? And please don't quote Thomas Jefferson as the expert on this issue. He's not and I'll prove it.
George Washington was not a deist. On multiple occasions he was interupted while praying. Washington was known for his consistent prayer life.
briannadavis07 2 years ago
You should look at the treaty of tripoli. It unanimously passed the senate in 1796. Read the first sentence in artical 11. If you think for a second that this country was founded on god then please explain that sentence that UNANIMOUSLY passed the senate.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
Idiot. The fact that Washington was caught praying demonstrated his deism!
He never went to church or practiced Chrstianity, however. Now, then, your snipe that Jefferson, an author of the Constitution, is not an expert on the issue and could not speak to it, is incredulous! You shouldn't be so insecure that you have to believe that the country that you live in was founded based on your personal religious beliefs.
friedie1jeff 2 years ago
the Bible says to dress modestly and have only 1 sex partner for life...yet all these hollywood actors/actresses have sex with several different guys in different movies, then the chrsitian cheerleaders still wear the shortest skirt they can find, any summer time in america: you will find: tanktops/miniskirt/bikini...
lavakava 2 years ago
how can america be a christian nation: largest porno industry, hollywood is full of sexual immorality, among the highest divorce rates and teenage pregnancies in the world, people always wanting to get HIGH (sex, drugs, alcohol), individual laughs when their spouse dies so they can collect insurance money, racism, etc. america is the LEAST christian nation.
lavakava 2 years ago
I agree with you, but you left out something. According to the Bible you are suppose to love your enemy yet in America we have one of the largest, if not the largest military in the world.
bullwhipjesus 2 years ago
John Adams in the 1700s said The Untied State was not founded by Christian Religion.
LittoMoon 2 years ago
the people did not vote him in it was all just the illuminati and skul-&-bones what realy got that dam Obama in all religions are just lie their should be a world wide bann on all religions they were just made 4 money and power over the people to get more power and money religion should be taken out of all schools as well as everywere else its got its people by strings to control them like pupets
ImTheRealJesusClone 2 years ago
Great video, exactly what i feel!!! I love the fact that you say "it doesn't matter what they believed" because it's true. What matters is what they left for us in the Constitution, Federalist Papers, Emancipation Proclimation, etc., not their personal beliefs
cdsoder345432 2 years ago
would like to back to 18th century America. The good ol days when slaves did what they were told, massas were sexin up the women slaves. Their wives had a few more civil rights than their slaves. Oh yes, I bet you do wish you could live back then.
Well Scooter, thanks for letting me play with you. Good luck with that debate style you got goin. LMGDAO I am sure someone will find it challenging,
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
threats of doing your incantions, voodoo magic, witch craft whatever, go ahead I am not concerned with such silliness. I have been threatened by you Christ cult members for over 8 yrs now with your nonsense. If you can move the hand of your mythical being, then so be it. If you can make your mythical being's ghost change my mind or enlighten me, kudos to you. If you can get Jesus to intercede for me, oh happy day. But we both know your threat will come back void. Lastly, it figures you would
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Just like last time, you run with your tail betwixt your bigoted little chicken legs.
LMGDAO
Last time I checked, it is not common sense to be a bigot, unless of course you are a fundaMENTAList Christ cult member. I have as much respect for god as I do leprechauns. If either are proven to exist, I will begin respecting them immediately. I respect many people who disagree with me, especially the ones who do not act like children when they are treated the way they treat others. As for your
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
More hypocrisy. LMGDAO you m ake this too easy for me. You whine & cry like a little girl when I say, "Jesus galsses" yet you quote men who did not want me to have any civil rights. WOW the irony is sweeter than sugar baby!!!
I love playing with you Scooter. You truly make me laugh & very happy that you live far away from me.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
red herrings, straw men, sophistry, arguments from authority, arguments from ignorance & flat out lies. You use personal attacks then cry foul when they are returned. Funny you bring up debating because you do not debate. Quote mining is not a debate style, it is argument from authority. Now if you extrapolated on the quote & gave scientific relevance to it, or gave an analogy which brings more flavor to the quote, then fine. But all you do is say, "See I told ya so I told ya so."
LMGDAO
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Mor rhetoric without substance. However I will address my behavior. Think of me as a mirror. If you do not like what you see, then become introspective. You see, I treat others, as they treat me. When I first engage someone, I engage them with respect. They continue to get my respect until they lose it with their behavior. I know I know it seems childish but it is entertaining. Now you & I have a history. We tried this once before with the same reults. You reply with rhetoric, dogma, quote minin
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Sure Bush was in good company, if he lived in 18th century America.
LMGDAO I have admitted over & over that yes, America was founded by a bunch of bigots. I do not deny this. Why do you continue in the same vein? Why would you want to expose the bigotry & hypocrisy of these men?
You are too stupid to even realize what you are doing. You think that by quoting bigots, hypocrites & xenophobes, you have proven something. I guess in the 50's you'd be quoting the Grand Wizard of the KKK proudly.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
If you listen, he never mentions Christianity one time. He mentions conservatives, god, O'Reilly, Hannity & then draws a correlation between where most crimes are committed & where most churches are as well as church goers. As usual you Christers freak out when facts are recited in your presence, which may expose a weakness within your circle. I challenge anyone to watch the Faux News clip regarding this case then dispute their claims with facts, not whining like a little girl.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
You can chant all you like about Barlow but you are absolutely unequivocally, wrong. Barlow did not add anything to the Arab copy or the Italian copy. He left out Article 11 however, when he translated the English. Yale did the work & it is online Scooter. Where is your reference? Where is your source? Fox News? LMGDAO
Now as for Corbett being taped, I concede I was wrong but it does not change the fact that he was only convicted on one count. Here is the vid on YT
watch?v=b0uV200A9as
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Noah Webster's definition of a cult:
1. formal religious veneration
2. a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
Again, whatever Rush feels about me, has no bearing on how I feel about myself. You are an absolute riot that you actually think you are proving anything or getting through to anyone. You must be a blast to party with eh? No thoughts of your own just a walking talking quote miner.
LMGDAO chicks must dig you
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Again with quote mining? LMGDAO!
So what? Who cares what any founding father had to say about infidelity? It has no bearing on our conversation. Even if it did, I could care less because I do not care what others think, I think for myself. I do not quote mine & pretend that I know something. You have not read any of the people's entire works, that you quote from. You are a fraud & a wannabe.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Scooter, when I asked for a source regarding school's which do not allow personal prayer, your response was for me to go to any school & ask them. That is not citing a source, than is spewing rhetoric because you know there is no such school. You cannot cite one court case or one credible report on this accusation of yours. The irony again, is beautiful. You tell me I cannot comprehend, then you claim telling me to do a survey of schools, is citing a source. LMGDAO you are precious.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Well, how about posting their links then? All anyone has to do is utilize Google. As for your psychological projection onto me, I can't help you there other than to say, let it go. Don't get frustrated & angry with knowledge. Embrace it.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Asking me to investigate your paranoid delusions proves you are lying, as usual, & that you cannot prove a thing other than the fact that you are a liar. It is simple Scooter, just cite the sources which reported the story. We both know your sources are apologetic websites that you cut & paste from. You do not think for yourself at all nor do you investigate objective sources. BAM straight to AiG, Dr Dino, CARM, etc.. Never do you cite a credible newspaper, journal, periodical, etc..
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
As for Florey v Sioux Falls, you obviously did not research this after you got it from your favorite apologetic website did you? Same with Barlow. Too bad for you Scooter. You see, you can read Judge's decisions on any court case, right online. This was a case about celebrating Christian holidays in public schools
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
with Christian plays & Christian songs. You are so full of shit but I love it because it entertains me greatly. Btw Scooter, the case was overturned in 1980. As for Reed v Van Holen (1965), well Scooter, there is no such court case. You know what is funny about your ilk though? Your holy book of horrors clearly says to pray in silence, but you phonies like to be heard, just like the hypocrites Jesus spoke of. Weird huh? Oh well, nice try you lying hypocrite.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
population in America, meanwhile Christians are at 80%. LOL & you guys are too weak & stupid to stop us. Muuuuaaaaaahahahahahaa
As for your other anonymous example, if you look at the parameters of the school project, it was about the occult & witchcraft. Ummm, though I think the Jesus cult is witchcraft, voodoo, cultic, etc., it is not considered by mainstream to be as such, ergo it did not fit within the parameters of the assignment.
LMGDAO WOW you are easy & this is fun
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
he was convicted of one statement. I guess you would like to have seen Bush Sr. convicted for this response to the question, "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?" by a reporter in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. Bush replied, "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." I love the power you give us non cultists. We represent less than 10% of the
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
whereby U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said that although Corbett was only found to have violated the establishment clause in a single instance, he could not excuse or overlook the behavior, he said, "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context." Here is the statement Dr Corbett was convicted of, "Creationism is superstitious nonsense."
Now for you to bitch & whine about this, is ridiculous. First off you won the case, secondly
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Sorry but Dr. Corbett was not taped. Try getting your stories from places other than Christian apologetic bullshit. Yes, a Christian family did go immediately to their lawyer, when their son told them a teacher badmouthed Creationism. The parents did not try to settle this like adults, they saw easy money & it was game over after that. After only one instance of Dr. Corbett calling Creationism irrational, they filed suit for damages against their son. It took about a yr to get to trial
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Oh you big silly. Joel "the radical deist" Barlow's copy, is the only of three original copies, which does NOT contain Article 11. The Italian & the Arabic originals do contain Article 11. Barlow did not insert anything, he redacted. His copy goes from 10, straight to 12, there is no 11. As for him writing the Arabic version, that is nonsense. His only interest was the English copy but if you want to extrapolate your silly accusation, it suggests that Barlow pulled one over on the Arabic.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
As for me not conceding that America was founded by fundamentalists, I have already conceded that & admittted that 7 states still have state constitutions which remove civil rights from atheists.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Since you are so fond of quotes, here is one fer ya. It comes from a little document called the Treaty of Tripoli & it is article 11. It was the first document ever unanomously ratified by the Senate & remained as such for many years.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity,
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Of course they cannot pass out evangelical candies. Guess what? Muslims cannot pass out evangelical candies either. Would you like to get a valentines that said, "Allah loves you!"?
LMGDAO
Your ilk is absolutely precious when you expose your persecution complexes. So anyhoo Scooter, where is the list of schools that do not allow students to pray to their god thingy?
We both know you cannot provide such a list so you are off the hook.
*snicker*
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Offer examples of this supposed bigotry. Name court cases. Name schools who have been charged for not allowing Christians to pray to their god. You are not presenting any evidence you are merely making empty accusations. For once can you please cite a source which proves something other than someone's opinion.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Jesus Christ on a tap dancing cracker.
LMGDAO
Get a dictionary & look up the term, "quote mining." It does not matter what the faith of others are & proving quotes proves nothing other what their faith may be. If I quote mine Dawkins, will it bring any validity to the subject matter? Of course not. All you want to do is exchange quotes as if it somehow validates your faith. We both know you have not read any of your references, in depth anyway. All you are doing is cutting & pasting. WOW
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
First, quote mining is not a productive or accepted form of debate. It is an argument from authority therefore would not be allowed. Second, I do not know of one American public school, where students are not allowed to bring god. I have many nieces, nephews, cousins, etc. ranging from pre school to college. None of them complained that they could not pray to god in school & all of them are Christians. You claim to cite sources, where are your sources for this asinine revisionist history?
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
with the highest per capita rates of the aforementioned, who's population also identifies itself as Christian, over 75% of the 60, are Christian. Of the top 20, 18 are Christian. Again America, 78% Christian, 80% American prison population. Atheist/agonstic, less than 10% of American population, less than 0.02% of prison population.
sources:
CIA Wolrd FactBook
NationMaster
Federal Bureau of Prisons
Regardless of any of this, it really does not matter much.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
constitutions with bias against atheists. If I were you I would not exactly be proud of this. This does not bode well for your argument that a Christian nation is good or that the bible teaches morality. America is #1 per capita, in most areas that Christians love to blame atheists for, such as, addiction, violence, rape, thievery, murder, murder with gun, abortions, teen pregnancies, etc.. America claims to be 78% Christian & 90% god believing. Also note that of the top 60 nations in the world
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
As for having a quote mining war with you on who was or was not Christian, deist, agnostic, etc., I will not as it is an utter bore & proves nothing other than Google works wonders. I concede that the vast majority of our founding fathers were Christian fundamentalists. I also concede that many of the early state constitutions, outlawed atheists holding public office & stripped them of their civil rights, using Christianity & the bible as their rationalization. Seven states still have Christian
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
What is truly sad is, we both know that you cannot respond other than to claim you already have. You could easily cut & paste your response, but you won't, unless it is one of those with mere rhetoric & dogma, no substance or sources cited. You still have not shown me where to get the list of absolute morality. For some reason you find it necessary to hold back & taunt me with your wisdom.
LMGDAO Your debate style is still very childish.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Ever hear of psychological projection? You suffer badly from it, perhaps Google could help you out? Anyhoo Scooter you are making my point only through semantics. The fact remains that according to the bible, god taught his children that it was OK to commit genocide on non Israelites. That was a moral lesson from your god thingy. Now then instead of giving me more dogma, explain how morality changed not only from the perspective of the Mosaic Laws, but also from the supposed orders god gave?
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
moved by the philosophical opinion of others in regards to superstition or mythology. I am more concerned with facts, truths & evidence than am with keeping up with the Jones'. I know this idea is new to you & it scares you but it is true some people do think independantly from their predeccesors. Oddly enough though, you quoted another person who had Christian bias. It is like me quoting Dawkins to you, so the fuck what? Did it cause you any pause? Hell no because you need your faith. It is not
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
OK OK, I will let you free from your corner. We both know however, that morality was brought onto this thread by you, not me, when you asserted that morality is absolute. Sorry for bringing up facts again I know how they are disturbing to you.
As for your continual use of arguments from authority & poor quote mining skills, it bores me. You could list a million respected people from throughout history, in front of me & proclaim the bible is truth. It won't matter as I think for myself. I am not
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
You then go on to create another false dichotomy, & a rather arrogant one at that, which is claiming that anyone who disgrees with your personal revisionist history & bias interpretations, is woefully ignorant, frustratingly stubborn or wilfully stupid. The subject I responded to was morality. The reason you do not want to address it is because you are cornered & you have no logical way out of your corner, without imposing hocus pocus & more rhetoric. Sorry Scooter but you suck at this still
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
There you go again with dogma & rhetoric. The fact remains that the bible is chock full of examples of people using the biblical history, i.e. Israelite wars. to justify their own wars. The first 4 commandments is always there #1 reason for war. Why? Because the Israelite history, i.e. the bible, asserts that god would order them to smite anyone non Israelite. You claim this is just analogy, but that is you exposing more of your ignorance & childlike ways of thinking.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
I am neither antiSemitic or antiChristian. I am however, antiLiars. The Mosaic Laws were not meant to be analogous you silly girl. Secondly, if the wars portrayed in the bible did not happen, then what did? Do you still not like making lists? I ask because I will need a list of what is historic & what is analogous warring, raping, theiving, lying, slave beating, adulterous, incestuous, etc. It is again noted that you have not responded with substance or evidence of where I am specificaly wrong.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Your cult does indeed stem from a late bronze-age cult, i.e. the Israelites. It is the evolution of Judaism. As for laws being reflective of morality, I am still waiting for you to tell me why Mosaic laws allowed for the beating of your slave, as long as you did not kill it. It allowed for killing your unruly child. It allowed for a woman's hands to be cut off if she accidentally grabs the testicles of the man beating up her husband. Ironically, you are the one making silly rebuttals.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
I was the first person to leave a comment on your home page silly. You challenged me to a dialogue on ID & the bible. After about 2 PM exdchanges, you quit out of frustration. I kept refuting you with facts. For example & coincidentally btw, the first thing I busted you on was your attempt at argument from authority & quote mining Jefferson, Franklin, Darwin, Einstein, etc.. A yr later I find you here doing the same goddamn thing. It must suck having to lie in order to keep your faith.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
WOW a year later & you are still trolling vlogs proselytizing the same lies & absurdities. Do you ever get bored of getting your ass handed to you? You still quote mine, you still use logical fallacies & you still have a persecution complex. What a pity.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
My arguments are getting silly? Like we wouldn't have figured out that murder and theft are detrimental to society without your Bible? Like murder and theft aren't condemned in virtually every religious and non-religious society. If you honestly people are only good because they are afraid they'll be punished by god for murdering others, then you have a very sad perception of this world. And if you're only holding back from such immoral actions because of fear of god, you're a terrible person.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
Morality does not stem from religion. Morality has evolved past your bronze-age religion. This is why divorce is not illegal, there are laws against child abuse, eating shellfish is legal, women have equal rights, slavery is abolished, and rape victims aren't forced to marry their attackers. Such legislation exists not because of the Bible, but in spite of it. Morality stems from empathy, reason and perception of needs and wants.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
If morality comes from the bible, where in the bible can I find a complete list of morals? I have asked literally thousands of Christ cult members this question & none can answer me. I have also Googled it & came up with nothing. I even spent yrs studying the bible in Hebrew & Greek & came up with bupkis. Some have tried to claim that the ten commandments is the list, but that is pathetically incomplete. Not to mention the first 4 have caused countless wars & genocides, as well as inquisitions
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
within the Christian cult itself, i.e. Catholic Protestant wars. Here is something perplexing. Why is it that it was moral for the Israelites to keep the virgin girls of a population they just violently destroyed, yet today we have laws against such barbaric behavior? Or how about when it was moral to stone to death, the victim of rape? Today, not so much. Or how about when it was moral to stone to death, someone who was mixing fabrics? Morality has in fact changed ergo it is subjective. Sorry.
IaintNoGood 2 years ago
Moral teachings do not equate to religion. One of the foundations of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is divine. Jefferson and Franklin both believed the moral teachings of Jesus were ahead of their time, but neither men believed Jesus was god. To say they were Christian men because they thought Jesus teachings were moral is ridiculous.
"I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity." - Franklin
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
Yes Franklin never doubted the existence of a deity. A deity existing without intervention or divine revelation.
"Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist." - Franklin
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
You do realize that when he says the religion of Jesus he is not talking about the Christianity you're familiar with? He's talking only of Jesus' moral teachings and nothing of Jesus being divine. That is why when Jefferson REWROTE the Bible, he took out all of the miracles and claims of divinity.
You don't even understand the meaning behind the quotes you use.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
You're simply quote mining. I can do the same.
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
- Benjamin Franklin
"Religions are all alike founded upon fables and mythologies."
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." - Thomast Jefferson
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
No they were not Christians. John Adams and Robert Paine were both Unitarian Congregationalists. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were both Deists.
I suggest you read The Treaty of Tripoli.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
I suggest that he reads a good history book.
friedie1jeff 2 years ago
Did you watch this video? Did you read any of these comments? Adams was Unitarian ie. didn't believe Jesus was divine. Franklin and Jefferson were deists, ie. didn't believe in the Christian god, or any interventionist divinely revealed god. However, despite various backgrounds, all of the founding father (even the Christians such as Washington), were secularists who believed in a separation of church and state. There is no mention of Jesus in the Constitution for a reason.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
"Deism, it is clear, is a form of theism." - Dictionary of Philosophy edited by D D Runes, 15th ed., rev., Philosophical Library, New York, 1960.
William Tindal, the deist, in "Christianity As Old As the Creation" makes the point that God will judge men because they are rational and He will judge them in proportion to the use they make of their reason. Perhaps you should seriously consider Tindal's advice.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
The reason you refer to is only used to suggest a creator, not a divine revelation type god.
"Deism is the recognition of a universal creative force greater than that demonstrated by mankind, supported by personal observation of laws and designs in nature and the universe, perpetuated and validated by the innate ability of human reason coupled with the rejection of claims made by individuals and organized religions of having received special divine revelation." - World Union of Deists
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
That is one of the reasons why Deism's claims are in doubt. As Jonathan Edwards so brilliantly observed, if Tindal's light of nature is all sufficient and we do not need revelation to know God then why is Tindal at pains to make the point. It would appear that the arguments of Deists are "wholly needless and vain..."
pbrucetube 2 years ago
I agree that the arguments of Deists are needless. As well as the claims of Theism.
However, if there is a god, he has purposely gone out of his way play peek-a-boo with the world, so I find the arguments for Deism stronger than the arguments for Theism.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
To me the very idea of an absolute God as the creative force of the universe moves the mind from darkness to light, from chaos to reason. This is not so much because I am impressed with the classical arguments as with the reasoning of men like Hegel, Kant, or Whitehead. But I particularly like Josiah Royce and Francis Herbert Bradley. God as the very author of history suggests power rather than a game of hide and seek.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
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Although the detail of the formation of the American governments ... It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
-- John Adams,
Seeker64 2 years ago
You are not making sense with your doubletalk! If it does not matter what people (Presidents) believe, then why are you anxious about what Christian's claim? Yes, the faith of our political leaders does matter. It matters because they rule over us. Our history shows that the vast majority of the founders held orthodox views. In some states, people who did not profess the Christian faith were not permitted to hold public office.
pbrucetube 3 years ago
Many of the founding fathers were admitted deists, not Christians; but more importantly they were secularists who believed in a wall of separation.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
The founding fathers of the Constitutional Convention were Congregatinalists, Episcopalians, Dutch Reformed, Presbyterian, Quaker, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, and Methodist according to their late life confessions. Out of 55 men, three professed Deism but even this number is questionable. So Deism ranked at 5% or less.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
Perhaps I should have said the greatest and most influential founding fathers were deists. I mention Franklin and Jefferson were deists (possibly Adams too, but at the very least Unitarian), and your response is that Read, Chase, Paca, Carroll, Sherman, Morton, Gwinnett and Hooper and were theists.
But that's getting beside the point. Despite their different backgrounds and different faiths, they were above all secularists.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
"Theists?" I am not aware of any founding fathers who were not theists and did not believe that God ruled over government. Even Thomas Paine was a theist. Thus, the idea that even the most liberal founders like Jefferson and Franklin were "secularists" is simply rubbish.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
Perhaps you should look up the word theist. You admitted that some founding fathers were deists, and then said you're not aware that some were not theists.
You should also look up secularist. It is entirely possible for someone to be a devout Christian, and a secularist. You can believe whatever contrived fairy tales you like and still keep them separate from legislation.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
My point was that I did not know of any founders who did not believe in God or were not theists. I also did not recall any founders who did not view God as the foundation for government. The first know Atheist "paradise" was the Soviet Union. Everyone in the 18th Century understood that religion and morality affected legistation. It still does. Legislation is ALWAYS based upon somebody's view of religion or morality.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
How can you say you didn't know any founders were not theists when you stated early that some were deists? Deists are NOT theists.
Additionally, religion and morality are not synonymous, and you should know that.
Morality stems from empathy, compassion, and altruism. One can be moral without the fear of a great security camera in the sky, or threat of eternal hellfire.
There will always be good people and bad people, but for a good person to do evil requires the illusion of religion.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
I have never heard anything so absurd as to say that "Deists are not theists." On what basis can that be true? A theist is one who believes in God or a god. Deists believe in different things but I have never heard of a "Deist" who did believe in some sort of god.
Religion is not necessarily the basis for morality although it usually is the basis for law and and morality.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
Deists believe in a non-interventionist creator, that created the universe and moved on investing no further time or thought in the happenings of this world.
Theists believe in an interventionist god that watches all of us, hears the murmurs of every individual, cares about our sex lives and provides some sort of guidance or plan.
Deists are NOT theists, and to think otherwise shows a profound misunderstanding of the terms.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
Both deism and theism cover broad areas of thought. Deism originally arose as a sect of Christianity and the word was formed from the Latin word for God. Theism came from the Greek word for god. Deists are not necessarily non-interventionist and we can tell by the prayers of Franklin and other founders that, whatever they believed, they did not have "non-interventionism" in mind.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
Deism - belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
Ben Franklin read a book refuting the arguments of Deism and found the arguments to be better than the refutations. He wrote that he had since become a Deist.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
OllyakaEnfillade, Like Humpty Dumpty, you apparently believe words only mean what you say they mean. I am afraid you are living in Wonderland. The word Deism has a broader meaning. Franklin, who was regarded as a Deist, did not believe in a God who "remained indifferent" to the world he had created. He stated at the Convention that "God governs in the affairs of men."
pbrucetube 2 years ago
You're right, I believe words say what I say they mean /sarcasm. What I say they mean, and what every dictionary says they mean. The last few replies of yours could easily have been prevented if you had just looked up the term Deism, accepted your error, and moved on in hopes of furthering your knowledge. But when presented with something that contradicts your belief, you dismiss it like most Christians do.
OllyakaEnfillade 2 years ago
"...and did not believe that God ruled over government."
You really need to look into this matter better. They didn't believe "God" ruled over government.
ResidentNinja 2 years ago
"They" believed that all authority came from God. Government recieved its authority from God. There are three governments: family, church, and state and their authority to govern comes from God.
pbrucetube 2 years ago
Neither Jefferson nor any of our founding fathers believed that there should be a "wall of separation" to imprision the church. Jefferson's "wall" was intended to protect the church from the state. Study the details of history. I recommend reading "Thomas Jefferson and the Wall of Separation Between Church and State" by Daniel L. Dreisbach, c2002.
pbrucetube 3 years ago
Christianity permeates America's founding from colonial charters onward. That American is a Christian nation has been declared by state and federal courts. "this is a Christian nation ..." (Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States - 1892 - United States Supreme Court)
pbrucetube 3 years ago 2
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" Article 11 of the US with Tripoli.
"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State".- Thomas Jefferson
wukillalogic 3 years ago
Paedophiles aren't gay you retard, they're paedophiles, many are married with their own children, you ignorant fucker. Paedophiles are attracted to children, not just boys. By your argument heterosexuals
priests should be raping little girls while the homosexual ones rape boys, but its doesnt work that way.
anonbehell 3 years ago
beatbuddy: this info has nothing to do with David Barton. I found it on multiple websites,none of which were David Bartons. If that's all you have you don't have much.BTW, how bout responding to the FACT that what I posted is correct.
blessedvic 3 years ago
Faith/God means not wanting to know what is true
pgup002 3 years ago
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6th Circuit Court of Appeals: First Amendment does not demand wall between church and state: December 20, 2005,
" the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit declared, "The First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state." The court also criticized the ACLU's repeated reference to the construct, calling it "tiresome" and "extra-constitutional."
About time the court got it right.
blessedvic 3 years ago
ctypro: read the treaty of tripoli 1805 and try to find your quote. When the treaty was rewritten yrs later,when America had a stronger navy, article 11 was left out. I guess they felt they really were a Christian nation!
blessedvic 3 years ago
I see that the tripe that was peddled by David Barton is still in circulation.
BeatBuddy