It's a spiritual application rather than a political 1? That makes it all the more reason that we stay neutral doesn't it? After all bad associations spoil useful habits doesn't it?
1 doesn't get away from political ideology when they get involved with it Brock. U have 2know this. What do u think would happen 2 the Halls if we were 2 b political ppl? I'll tell u right now it wouldn't b good. I'm sure u know this. U c the unity that comes from not being involved in politics?
@MALACHAI39 you are so focused on your own game you cant see past first base. you are not looking at the bigger concept that is governing your worldview malacha. you keep throwing these scriptures at me without dealing with the problem before u. i cant reason with ya. if u want to talk here ya go 509.730.5012
Of course it doesn't necessarily support complete "neutrality" in politics. What it does say is "be no part of the world." What does this mean to you Brock?
Is Jesus not King? Then why are you concerning yourself with other governments to which Jesus himself doesn't belong? Who's in control of the world at the moment Brock? Is it not Satan? And you're going to do what to change this? Nothing. That's what u can do to change it Brock.
@MALACHAI39 to be no part of the world has nothing to do with remaining politically separate from government. Thats watchtowers assertion. It's this presupposition that I am trying to get you to reason through. You asked me why I am concerning myself with other governments? I don't know Malachi, why does it matter if I do? Why did Daniel get involved? Remaining separate from the world is a spiritual application not a political application
Yes, Daniel did stay loyal to Jehovah. As you know Daniel was blessed by God and Daniel knew it.
You know there are many in political offices today that claim to be "Christian". What happened to their 'loyalty' to God Brock? What happened to the promises they made to their constituents?
Has history taught you nothing Brock? Does one truly need to hold a political office to do good in the world?
Do not put your trust in earthing man. God says they can't save you. Wouldn't God know?
@MALACHAI39 You are redirecting the issue. Its not about the ability to do good in our outside political office as you have asserted. The issue is that Daniel DID HOLD a political office and yet stayed loyal to Jehovah. So that being the case. Why does the watchtower forbid its followers to hold political office? They maintain that one must be "politically neutral" ?? WHY? Why must they insist on one being neutral when there is no biblical foundation to back that up? (Cont..)
Daniel's allegiance was to God. But he was also an Israelite correct? If that nation belonged to God as well would it not be reasonable to believe that Daniel would have backed the nation so long as they obeyed God (i.e. followed Law) as well?
Things weren't the same for the Israelites as they r 4 us 2day. Did God not make promises involving Israel? So surely u can appreciate God's allowing certain things 2 go on then but not 2day.
@MALACHAI39 Oh my word Malachi, Daniel was promoted to the head of the MAGI in the Babylonian Empire, and once that empire toppled, he was promoted to the court of Darius the Meade! Yes he was an Israelite but he was in a political office of a pagan nation. Thats the point.
So I think you are basically backing yourself into a corner here. Isnt that crazy that Daniel was able to remain loyal to God in spite of having a political office?!
So why in the world does the Watchtower condem this today
Was Daniel there because of something he did personally or was it some other means that got him there like say Jehovah God making clear to Daniel what the dream was? Did Daniel run a campaign to get 'elected' 2 his position of counsel, not politician running the government?
Daniel's only allegiance was 2 Jehovah God. It wasn't 2 some earthly authority of one sort or another. U recall y he was thrown into the lions' den? Daniel had what? to do with those who schemed against him?
@MALACHAI39 Fair enough. So lets just impose what you just said into a modern context. If a Jehovah's Witness was not elected, but instead asked to join a political office (ex..Secretary of Agriculture) would it then be ok to accept such a position?
Secondly, since Daniel was in a political office, and you being ok with that, would it have been NOT ok if the office were by election?
You also said that Daniels only allegiance was to Jehovah and not to an EARTHLY AUTHORITY. (Cont...)
Ironic that you would bring up a chapter in Daniel. Was not Daniel a government official? Something JW's would never be allowed to do today (Have a position in public political office) just something to think about
Read Romans 13:1-7. Also Jesus called his followers to be salt and light. It is a Christians' job to bring a difference in the world. Jehovah's Witnesses are just as guilty, by standing on the sidelines watching evil take place on both a national and an international level and not doing anything, as those making the decisions. You have a voice so use it.
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ You really need to just stop!.. The only thing you are doing is preaching that the Watchtower Organization is *CO-SAVIOR* with Jesus Christ..THAT is a bold-faced LIE.
The Watchtower Organization is NOT "CO-SAVIOR" with Jesus Christ, like your leaders are Falsely teaching.
There is NO LINK between Salvation and the Watchtower Corporation/Organization... You are being lied to!
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ Your wt leaders falsely teach that people who belong to JESUS CHRIST, ( and Not to their WT Organization ) belong to Satan the Devil.
You obviously agree with their lie, that a person has to go thru their "Organization" to have GOD.. If not, you would not be a JW.
That falsely makes "The Organization" your Mediator, NOT Jesus!.. You are being grossly lied to.
Merry CHRISTmas!! .. Even the ANGELS praised the Birth of JESUS!
***Luke 2:10-14~ “Then the ANGEL said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you GOOD TIDING of GREAT JOY which will be to all people. "For there is born to you this day in the city of David a SAVIOR, who is CHRIST the Lord.".. And suddenly there was with the angel a MULTITUDE of the Heavenly Host PRAISING GOD and saying: "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"
all due respect, but i believe the society makes it very clear that they view themselves as a theocratic government. they teach their members to be very loyal to their faith, and not to get involved in the world's politics. im not intending to argue, or even defend anyone, just interested in fairness.
@thetruthrover I thought they were an organization and not a government....weird. Now they are a government with a governing body. So now they consider themselves Jehovah Government? and where is Jesus?
The Watchtowers position and understand of the bible is juvenile at best. Perhaps the simplified version of the Watchtower was created because the Governing Body was having difficulty understanding the standard version.
A republic is a representative form of government. It is the Roman form of government. Meaning the people elect representatives to create the laws. Even laws that seem unchangeable and in reality very hard to change, CAN be changed in a republic. Even constitutions can be amended. What if a majority joined any single religion. Instating it as the only religion, not respecting the rights of those that don't follow or believe it's tennants.
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ {"ya ur right, they did, but it wasnt on dec. 29th"}
No one says Dec 25th is the actual date of Jesus birth... No one knows that actual date. The point is that Jesus' birth into the world as our Savior is what's being honored on Christmas.. Not the "date".
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ Btw Storm.. You should go ahead and UN-block me so we can share some more comments.
Here's a TRUE statement:
~ Absolutely NO ONE gets Eternal Life thru or by being a JW connected to the Watchtower Corporation, because belonging to the Watchtower Corporation can NOT ATONE for your Sins.. Repentance and Faith in the **SIN ATONING BLOOD** of Jesus Christ does!
>>**Eph 1:7 ~ " In JESUS CHRIST we **HAVE** Salvation through *JESUS' BLOOD*, the **FORGIVENESS of OUR SINS**."
@Bibl3Thumper
It's a spiritual application rather than a political 1? That makes it all the more reason that we stay neutral doesn't it? After all bad associations spoil useful habits doesn't it?
1 doesn't get away from political ideology when they get involved with it Brock. U have 2know this. What do u think would happen 2 the Halls if we were 2 b political ppl? I'll tell u right now it wouldn't b good. I'm sure u know this. U c the unity that comes from not being involved in politics?
MALACHAI39 2 months ago
@MALACHAI39 you are so focused on your own game you cant see past first base. you are not looking at the bigger concept that is governing your worldview malacha. you keep throwing these scriptures at me without dealing with the problem before u. i cant reason with ya. if u want to talk here ya go 509.730.5012
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
@Bibl3Thumper
Of course it doesn't necessarily support complete "neutrality" in politics. What it does say is "be no part of the world." What does this mean to you Brock?
Is Jesus not King? Then why are you concerning yourself with other governments to which Jesus himself doesn't belong? Who's in control of the world at the moment Brock? Is it not Satan? And you're going to do what to change this? Nothing. That's what u can do to change it Brock.
I wonder how God defines treason. Do you?
MALACHAI39 2 months ago
@MALACHAI39 to be no part of the world has nothing to do with remaining politically separate from government. Thats watchtowers assertion. It's this presupposition that I am trying to get you to reason through. You asked me why I am concerning myself with other governments? I don't know Malachi, why does it matter if I do? Why did Daniel get involved? Remaining separate from the world is a spiritual application not a political application
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
@Bibl3Thumper
Yes, Daniel did stay loyal to Jehovah. As you know Daniel was blessed by God and Daniel knew it.
You know there are many in political offices today that claim to be "Christian". What happened to their 'loyalty' to God Brock? What happened to the promises they made to their constituents?
Has history taught you nothing Brock? Does one truly need to hold a political office to do good in the world?
Do not put your trust in earthing man. God says they can't save you. Wouldn't God know?
MALACHAI39 2 months ago
@MALACHAI39 You are redirecting the issue. Its not about the ability to do good in our outside political office as you have asserted. The issue is that Daniel DID HOLD a political office and yet stayed loyal to Jehovah. So that being the case. Why does the watchtower forbid its followers to hold political office? They maintain that one must be "politically neutral" ?? WHY? Why must they insist on one being neutral when there is no biblical foundation to back that up? (Cont..)
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
@MALACHAI39 (Cont..) Daniel was clearly not politically neutral as the Watchtower defines it. This is the dilemma. This is the issue.
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
@Bibl3Thumper
The Watchtower? You guys just don't quit do you?
Daniel's allegiance was to God. But he was also an Israelite correct? If that nation belonged to God as well would it not be reasonable to believe that Daniel would have backed the nation so long as they obeyed God (i.e. followed Law) as well?
Things weren't the same for the Israelites as they r 4 us 2day. Did God not make promises involving Israel? So surely u can appreciate God's allowing certain things 2 go on then but not 2day.
MALACHAI39 2 months ago
@MALACHAI39 Oh my word Malachi, Daniel was promoted to the head of the MAGI in the Babylonian Empire, and once that empire toppled, he was promoted to the court of Darius the Meade! Yes he was an Israelite but he was in a political office of a pagan nation. Thats the point.
So I think you are basically backing yourself into a corner here. Isnt that crazy that Daniel was able to remain loyal to God in spite of having a political office?!
So why in the world does the Watchtower condem this today
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
@Bibl3Thumper
Was Daniel there because of something he did personally or was it some other means that got him there like say Jehovah God making clear to Daniel what the dream was? Did Daniel run a campaign to get 'elected' 2 his position of counsel, not politician running the government?
Daniel's only allegiance was 2 Jehovah God. It wasn't 2 some earthly authority of one sort or another. U recall y he was thrown into the lions' den? Daniel had what? to do with those who schemed against him?
MALACHAI39 2 months ago
@MALACHAI39 Fair enough. So lets just impose what you just said into a modern context. If a Jehovah's Witness was not elected, but instead asked to join a political office (ex..Secretary of Agriculture) would it then be ok to accept such a position?
Secondly, since Daniel was in a political office, and you being ok with that, would it have been NOT ok if the office were by election?
You also said that Daniels only allegiance was to Jehovah and not to an EARTHLY AUTHORITY. (Cont...)
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
@Bibl3Thumper (cont..) So what about allegiance to the Watchtower? Does not the Watchtower demand allegiance?
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
@storminonyou2009
Ironic that you would bring up a chapter in Daniel. Was not Daniel a government official? Something JW's would never be allowed to do today (Have a position in public political office) just something to think about
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
thanks for the video. i never thought about the subject that deeply before. something to ponder.
stepfordescapee 2 months ago
read dan. 2:44
STORMINONYOU2009 3 months ago
@STORMINONYOU2009
Read Romans 13:1-7. Also Jesus called his followers to be salt and light. It is a Christians' job to bring a difference in the world. Jehovah's Witnesses are just as guilty, by standing on the sidelines watching evil take place on both a national and an international level and not doing anything, as those making the decisions. You have a voice so use it.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ You really need to just stop!.. The only thing you are doing is preaching that the Watchtower Organization is *CO-SAVIOR* with Jesus Christ..THAT is a bold-faced LIE.
The Watchtower Organization is NOT "CO-SAVIOR" with Jesus Christ, like your leaders are Falsely teaching.
There is NO LINK between Salvation and the Watchtower Corporation/Organization... You are being lied to!
JESUS is our ONLY Mediator! - 1 Tim 2:5!
.
VAIO294 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ Your wt leaders falsely teach that people who belong to JESUS CHRIST, ( and Not to their WT Organization ) belong to Satan the Devil.
You obviously agree with their lie, that a person has to go thru their "Organization" to have GOD.. If not, you would not be a JW.
That falsely makes "The Organization" your Mediator, NOT Jesus!.. You are being grossly lied to.
JESUS is our ONLY Mediator! - 1 Tim 2:5!
.
VAIO294 2 months ago
@STORMINONYOU200 ~
Merry CHRISTmas!! .. Even the ANGELS praised the Birth of JESUS!
***Luke 2:10-14~ “Then the ANGEL said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you GOOD TIDING of GREAT JOY which will be to all people. "For there is born to you this day in the city of David a SAVIOR, who is CHRIST the Lord.".. And suddenly there was with the angel a MULTITUDE of the Heavenly Host PRAISING GOD and saying: "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"
.
VAIO294 2 months ago
I can't ding context ministries on FB is that deleted page?
TheRawFoodMommy 3 months ago
@TheRawFoodMommy
just type context.ministries
Bibl3Thumper 3 months ago
all due respect, but i believe the society makes it very clear that they view themselves as a theocratic government. they teach their members to be very loyal to their faith, and not to get involved in the world's politics. im not intending to argue, or even defend anyone, just interested in fairness.
thetruthrover 3 months ago
@thetruthrover I thought they were an organization and not a government....weird. Now they are a government with a governing body. So now they consider themselves Jehovah Government? and where is Jesus?
PeacefulOlives 3 months ago
So storm do you submit to the government of the WTBTS I believe Brock was pointing out the double standard.
pande4509 3 months ago
By the way Brock.... i'm sending you some "special" fish food. :')
21crosscheck21 3 months ago
The Watchtowers position and understand of the bible is juvenile at best. Perhaps the simplified version of the Watchtower was created because the Governing Body was having difficulty understanding the standard version.
21crosscheck21 3 months ago 2
A republic is a representative form of government. It is the Roman form of government. Meaning the people elect representatives to create the laws. Even laws that seem unchangeable and in reality very hard to change, CAN be changed in a republic. Even constitutions can be amended. What if a majority joined any single religion. Instating it as the only religion, not respecting the rights of those that don't follow or believe it's tennants.
slanelcla 3 months ago
Webster's newworld dictionary has three definnitions for government:
1 The exercise of authority over a state,organization,etc,;control;rule
2 A system of ruling, political administration, etc.
3 Those who conduct the affairs of a state, etc.;administration.
LAGAMER50 3 months ago
@LAGAMER50 ......but the bible has only one type of govenment mentions at dan. 2: 44.
STORMINONYOU2009 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ {"ya ur right, they did, but it wasnt on dec. 29th"}
No one says Dec 25th is the actual date of Jesus birth... No one knows that actual date. The point is that Jesus' birth into the world as our Savior is what's being honored on Christmas.. Not the "date".
PRAISE GOD!!.. Thank you JESUS!!!! :)
.
VAIO294 2 months ago
@STORMINONYOU2009 ~ Btw Storm.. You should go ahead and UN-block me so we can share some more comments.
Here's a TRUE statement:
~ Absolutely NO ONE gets Eternal Life thru or by being a JW connected to the Watchtower Corporation, because belonging to the Watchtower Corporation can NOT ATONE for your Sins.. Repentance and Faith in the **SIN ATONING BLOOD** of Jesus Christ does!
>>**Eph 1:7 ~ " In JESUS CHRIST we **HAVE** Salvation through *JESUS' BLOOD*, the **FORGIVENESS of OUR SINS**."
.
VAIO294 2 months ago