Vegetarianism (a response to the oneandonlyhypnos)

[mymojorisin]

I agree that the treatment of animals by humans is despicable, however I would also say that the human species is carnivorous by nature. We could live in harmony with nature if we wanted to and maintain an even balance. Much of what happens at slaughter houses are the result of greed and waste and is not necessary to feed the population.

[iloveowls90]

@mymojorisin hmm have u looked at your teeth latly? do they have long long sharp teeth(longer then the ones we have?) and we eat COOKED meat not raw meat like lions do.

[mymojorisin]

@iloveowls90

LOL Did you miss Biology class in high school? Humans have 4 Canine teeth that were evolved to eat meat, raw or cooked, they are for eating MEAT. Humans evolved to have a mixed diet of plant and meat.

If you choose not to eat meat that is your choice. Remember EVERY living animal on this planet must eat another form of life to live, without exception. The plants that you eat were once living. Does the fact that they are rooted in the ground make there life any less valuable?

[iloveowls90]

@mymojorisin funny u ask that. i actually never took biology and i am aware of our canine teeth but there are not as sharp as a lions. and we have more flat teeth then a true carnivore. just saying.

[paragraphy]

Well articulated.

(Watching your videos has made me realise I really ought to persevere with the transition to veganism. Thanks for making them.)

[LardFeatures]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Great video.

[Spurgeon123]

I've come to the conclusion that people who define themselves by what they eat are quite void of anything else so they try and find purpose in something as mundane as lettuce and celery. I think if they bothered to do a survey of vegans, theyd see a wide variety of mental disorders. I also notice that vegans are mostly women, single and quite intraverted. Id suggest a dose of prozac and a good medium rare steak.

[cujosdad]

"I think if they bothered to do a survey of vegans, theyd see a wide variety of mental disorders."

I expect that this is true just as it is with the rest of the population.

I think if you bothered to learn anything about Vegans you might have a different opinion of who we are. But, I suspect you were only interested in a little trolling. Hope you enjoyed it.

watch?v=VDGssRt6raA

[CatCommunication]

8:30...."He who will not be named"...

Voldemort????

(Just Kidding)

[TheVeganicWitch]

Veggiemort ROFL

[CatCommunication]

Voldemeat.

[KenRaged]

ahahahaha, bunch of self obsessed vegan/vego weirdo's who enjoy listening to your own bullshit. Eat some meat, you look sick and your teeth are fucked up, im off to eat a steak........wanna watch ?.......i know your hungry, lmfao

[oneandonlyhypnos]

great...another braindead troll

[cujosdad]

"ahahahaha, bunch of self obsessed vegan/vego weirdo's who enjoy listening to your own bullshit"

Hush child, the grownups are talking here.

Now go back to watching Ninja vids like a good little boy.

[TheVeganicWitch]

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

[porolita22]

And I don't really take part on the welfare vs. abolition debates because I think we need them both. But anyone who claims to be for AR cannot possibly call "victories" when small reforms are passed. They should be like "ok, you gave a step, but we're still on you!"

Basically, if you care for animals, you should seek to live abolition as much as possible in your life, and go vegan. We can't be perfect, but there's a lot we can do.

[oneandonlyhypnos]

"But anyone who claims to be for AR cannot possibly call "victories" when small reforms are passed"

Some of these reforms aren't that small. And it is the only thing we can acheive for the animals realistically speaking. Sad, but it is so...

[porolita22]

The example you used for slavery is exactly what I tell people when they give me that "happy meat" crap.

I don't care if you kissed the animal to death (stupid example but you get it) you are still killing it and keeping the market for meat open and profitable. Same for milk and eggs. We need to do as much as we can, not sugar coat the cruelty by making us feel better about the animals that died unnecessarily for our convenience.

[porolita22]

I don't think people who are ovo-lacto vegetarians are "evil" or whatever, but if you make excuses for the industries, they don't you dare call yourself a person who cares for animals. Welfare in much instances is promoted by people who consume meat, it is insane for me.

[oneandonlyhypnos]

"Welfare in much instances is promoted by people who consume meat, it is insane for me"

That's not true, most of those people don't care much. And the industries actively oppose welfare reforms the most. More than abolitionist, because we cause much more damage to the industries and we are making gradual changes happen in society. Is exactly what is happening more and more in europe, because of these welfare reforms. We are outlawing fur because of welfare concerns, and many other things...

[TheVeganicWitch]

I don't know what these groups are like in Europe but where I am from the RSPCA is a joke. They only care about cats and dogs, they support meat industry bodies whilst demeaning AR activists on their websites and stating they are terrified anyone with a liberationist bent will end up on their board. They serve meat at their functions and do not respond to calls from activists who investigate factory farms and find welfare breaches, they have to call the police instead, who are more helpful! :-/

[oneandonlyhypnos]

More traditional animal welfare groups aren't like that at all in europe. I've got some very good experiences with them and I know people that are involved in it. Among them even vegetarians/vegans...

[TheVeganicWitch]

From what I hear the European groups seem to have more backbone. I think there is a LOT of corruption here :(

[oneandonlyhypnos]

It would appear so...We have all been very effective here.

[TheVeganicWitch]

Maybe different strategies for different areas works then? The welfare route for me, even if I was fine with animals being used 'humanely' for milk/eggs, is just out of the question because I cannot trust the regulators. I think probably the best strategy for a well run Welfare group would be to allow some input from Rightists, it would keep a debate flowing and the focus more on the animals then on politics. I'm dribbling crap now, MUST go to bed!!!!

[oneandonlyhypnos]

I was thinking there are different strategies for different areas of the world too! Must be a telepathic bond OMG :p

Have a good night!

[mikeythevegan]

yehhp..... aside from animal welfare..... the animals are still being treated as objects which are expendable...... just like human slaves

[oneandonlyhypnos]

You should visit my blog. I have written about that and also gave some links to a discussion between martin balluch and gary francione. To put it simple: gary doesn't help the animals, martin balluch does. I can also follow Sapontzis on this. Theory is one thing, but we have to put it into practice and change society within an imperfect society. So we have to make due with what we got.

[mikeythevegan]

cool will do!!

[TheVeganicWitch]

Dude, could you send me the link to that precise post via PM. I'm on your blog but my eyes are all bleary and I cannot locate this precise thing, which is frustrating, because I am quite familiar with Francione and I want to see the flip side :-)

[oneandonlyhypnos]

done

[TheVeganicWitch]

Cheers, I will read it on the 'morrow :-)

I was meant to be going to bed 30 mins ago but I got busy reading all of the comments, my subscribers are so cool, I wish I could give them all a big hug :-)

[oneandonlyhypnos]

good night!

[oneandonlyhypnos]

I would also like to mention one thing about milk, specific to belgium. I don't drink it, but I don't save any veals because of it. Why? Because the production is kept alive and kicking through government subsidies. Much more milk is produced than is being consumed right now. So now the milk producers get advertising on national tv to sell even more of the stuff with the message of how healthy it is. So, I don't even make a difference. Very frustrating by the way

[travino85]

Plants are living things too you hypocrytical idiots.

[oneandonlyhypnos]

You might want to look at my videos called: critical thinking for anti - veg trolls. That might cure you :p

[firehandszarb]

So only eat plants to minimise the amount of plants that need to be grown (no need to grow "feed" for the enslaved animals destined for slaughter). Look beyond the surface, vegans tend to be much more well read than your average omnivore, the culture and philosophy is also very different.

[VeganButterfly]

Plants are not sentient.

[MagicFlowerPlant]

I don't think that it's obvious that plants are not sentient. My belief is that everything ultimately has a physical explanation, so whatever physical phenomenon corresponds to sentience in animals may be present in plants and other physical systems as well.

[VeganButterfly]

So as an example, do you think that someone who picks a flower should receive the same punishment as someone who rips the head off of a kitten? Why or why not?

[MagicFlowerPlant]

I think for now, until we have a better understanding of consciousness, it makes sense to make the guess that sentience is present in animals and not elsewhere, so for now harming the kitten is worse, assuming a philosophy such as hedonistic utilitarianism.

[VeganButterfly]

And do you realize that a vegan diet causes less plants to be killed since most of our crops grown are fed to animals raised for food? You kill fewer plants by eating them directly instead of feeding large amounts into an animal to eat the animal.

[MagicFlowerPlant]

I agree. I apologize as my previous comment may have led to the understanding that I was arguing against vegans, but I am actually a vegan myself. My intention was to point out the importance of keeping open the possibility of sentience beyond animals.

[VeganButterfly]

Well my post was a response to travino85 who said, "Plants are living things too you hypocrytical idiots.".

If your a vegan that feels plants may be sentient, than what is your response to his claim?

[MagicFlowerPlant]

My response would be the same as yours, that consuming animals and animal products actually uses more plants than being a vegan does.

[VeganButterfly]

I personally try to even minimize the number of plants being killed in other ways too. I actually wouldn't even pick flowers (but I would grow them!). I buy as much as I can from thrift stores so I'm not buying new materials (which not only kill more plants, but also takes away animal habitat!).

[oneandonlyhypnos]

Actually amazing how many of your comments have gotten all thumps down. We are all one movement. Is this really necessary?

[HappyCabbie]

I think this channel needs more subscribers.

[oneandonlyhypnos]

Agreed. And I think my channel needs more subs too :p Sub me too! Hear that everybody?

[alaskafido]

So many people are into this all or nothing type thinking; you hear it all the time. "How can you be an environmentalist if you own a car?" They're purposefully discounting that there's a gradient from bad to good.

[TheVeganicWitch]

Of course there is! I don't mean to be coming across like that if I am, I accept all people no matter what they do and if I disagree with it. This is just a discourse I have been having with a friend of mine who has a similar agenda with a different strategy. It's just a debate and not supposed to demean anyone.

[alaskafido]

Should have been clearer. I was specifically referring to people like travino85 below: "Plants are living things too you hypocrytical (sic) idiots." People like that, I meant, not you. I think you're perfectly reasonable! You're one of my youtube heros...

[oneandonlyhypnos]

I don't drink milk :p thanks for the response by the way. well, if you were a slave you would appreciate being maltreated less worse then before (because of welfare reform). those humans are slaves. this while human rights is accepted, animal rights not. Just to show the situation the animals are in today. The problem I have with abolition is that I think it is unrealistic to demand total abolition of a society that has an entire economy built on animal use (abuse). society changes gradually

[TheVeganicWitch]

Well I don't think anyone expects abolition to happen now (do they?) it has to happen as a grass roots movement and be chosen by the majority of people. Of course I support welfare reforms that make a real difference to the lives of animals but many of them seem to have huge loopholes that allow similar practices as prior to continue (such as the sow stall ban in California which apparently has criteria for when a stall can still be used). Abolition makes more sense for MY life personally...

[oneandonlyhypnos]

Well, the problem I see with grassroots, is that it is too small to have any effect. Bigger groups have gotten a lot more results. Just look at the seal fur ban, the recent ban on the breeding of foxes for fur in Danmark, the furbreeding bans in the UK and Austria,... the list goes on. But the bigger animal right groups (reformists) played a crucial role in it...both socially and politically. Loopholes can be a problem, as always when you work with politics and legislation. thats true...

[TheVeganicWitch]

...(i.e. I embody abolition as much as is possible) and it is my platform but I do not delude myself into thinking these issues are all cut and dried. There will have to be intermediary steps and the end goal if it ever happens will take many generations. My feeling is that you have to aim high to ensure you achieve something worthwhile, if you aim low and miss your mark it is terrible tragedy for the animals you are fighting for. Anyhow, me sleepy - ni ni :-)

[oneandonlyhypnos]

"My feeling is that you have to aim high to ensure you achieve something worthwhile, if you aim low and miss your mark"

I've heard that before many times. The problem is, if you aim to high with your 'demands' to society, then people won't listen and you don't get off the ground. This has happened in several countries. Not in my country (although we have it hard here as well).

[NaomiClareNL]

Hey Jessamine, you missed out on a possible way of getting out of some dull backbreaking labour by not sowing some veggies this year. Those animals probably would have gone for the roots too saving you some heavy digging...

[Baratgab]

I too agree with your points. :) Always fascinated me that some vegetarians how easily ignore the fact that most vegans were also vegetarians, and we came to veganism after a deep realization. It's good to keep in mind that views are self-affirming, so other people, who have changed their ways for the sake of integrity, are an important source of guidance, generally speaking.

Of course vegetarians do a very good job too; cutting out meat is the most important.

[AncientAtheist]

Yes, you sound MUCH better. Cute hair cut. I greatly admire your ethics and how you present them.

[TheVeganicWitch]

Thank you very much, ditto to you :-)

This is my normal hair...new hair to come either this weekend or next (probably next, when I get paid actually, checked the bank balence and its not looking too flash)

Hahaha i just said 'normal' hair, WTF! Obviously it will be abnormal when I cut it.

I'm silly ;-p

[oneandonlyhypnos]

"This is my normal hair"

You already get compliments on your new hair cut up front :p Well, I'll compliment you too then: nice hair cut... :D

[TheVeganicWitch]

Nooooooooo it's not my new hair yet!!! LOL

[Rotkreuz]

Excellent video, as always, missus! :)

[wishiremembered]

That's really cool how you're growing your own garden,that will definitly help your body and health.

[MewoAndTheCrow]

:) you're really cool! I something get kinda bummed about being vegan cause i get so much shit for it. People think it's okay to randomly come up to me and state thier opinion on why im wrong and meat is great, blah blah blah. Thanks for making thier vid. It just re-enforces my belief that veganism is right (for me), and all forms of slavery should be abolished. That stuff about the cocobeans really shocked me, as i didn't realise that kinda slavery was still going on. I feel rather ignorant now

[MewoAndTheCrow]

Oh pants. the typos gnome has been out again! aha!

Sometimes*

this*

>.>

Anyway, thanks again. I'm gonna do some research on the stuff you mentioned. :)

[TheVeganicWitch]

You can get vegan fair trade chocolate, check out veganstore . com :-)

Don't feel bad, this is something that I happened to find out by accident. I think freedocumentaries . org (cannot remember you may have to search) has a doco on this subject.

Thank you for your comments <3

[cujosdad]

I counted 31 but, I was more paying attention to what you were saying rather than playing the game so, I might have missed a couple ;-)

[TheVeganicWitch]

Cheers, I'm glad its not too distracting! I get into things where I say a certain phrase over and over, and sometimes it is just too hard to edit out because I am Australian and that makes me run my words together like a big word stew LOL

[JacobSpinney]

This may be a little off topic. But I don't get this organic phase that vegans and vegetarians seem to be pushing. The peer reviewed studies on the matter keep finding that the pesticide levels of food are so minute that it just doesn't have an affect on the body at all and the only difference between pesticide treated food and organic food is the price tag.

[cujosdad]

I would be interested in seeing those studies Jacob, I wonder sometimes how much money I waste when I buy organic stuff. I do know that some foods are really bad for pesticides...strawberries for example. I don't obsess over organic though, I am an ethical vegan.. I just pay attention to health issues s a side note. Any links?

[JacobSpinney]

Google "institute of food technologists organic food" without the quotes and click on the first link.

[cujosdad]

"Google "institute of food technologists organic food" without the quotes and click on the first link. "

thanks...I'll give that a look...downloaded the PDF.........I found it funny when I was researching Organic foods a couple years ago that the USDA "organic" stamp will still allow for "certain synthetic fertilizers" so, I'm always a bit dubious of that stamp

[TheVeganicWitch]

I buy what I can afford, and I will not pay $4 or whatever for a bunch of carrots when I could get a bag for .99c. The organic veggie thing doesn't get me too excited, although I am looking forward to growing my own veg, which will be organic (cannot until we have fencing, too many animals waiting around for a free feed and they are not scared of coming right up to the front door to get it). The organic issue I mention here is in refrence to vegetarians pushing organic milk.

[cujosdad]

"I buy what I can afford, and I will not pay $4 or whatever for a bunch of carrots when I could get a bag for .99c"

Same here ...they get me by small amounts though, if something organic is 20 cents more than the non organic I will go for it.

[Baratgab]

Health-wise I also think that organic food is a kind of scam. Not because it's not better, but because people generally think that buying organic will make them healthy, while there are much more important factors, as far as I know.

But from environmental aspect I definitely think that organic must be the way to go. Using poisons doesn't make any sense, when we have this wonderful system, called permaculture. Of course I buy local non-organic, if organic comes from thousands of miles.

[oneandonlyhypnos]

Yes, organic is mostly important for the environment. I do think that perhaps some advantages can be had by eating organic. Sometimes it is more ecological to buy something that is produced thousands of miles away instead of local, if you add everything up. Local doesn't mean the most ecological friendly.

[CatCommunication]

JacobSpinney - To me, the point of buying organic veggies (and, like VeganicWitch said, I too will only pay so much for them) is not to avoid pesticide. For me, it is to avoid GMO.

I don't buy, for example, the big Red Delicious apples that are ALWAYS 3x normal size, even when out of season, and coated in wax to make them look shiny -- they taste kinda bland. Instead, I buy organic apples that are not exaggerated sizes and waxed.

[RicoRicanNYC]

What do you think of a 70/30 diet? 70% vegan and 30% meats. I don't know if it's really healthy to eliminate meat 100% because meat is a fabulous source of high quality proteins, contains all the essential amino acids that the body requires, phosphorus content present in meat gets much more easily absorbed than that present in cereals and legumes and serves as the main source for the intake of vitamin B12. Preserved meats like ham, bacon, salami etc should be avoided. Why 100% vegan?

[Dall5000]

There is V-B12 in Soy and it stores in the body up to 20 years.

[RicoRicanNYC]

Yeah but I read somewhere that soy is bad for men, also a doctor told me that that statement was true.

[cujosdad]

I've read diffferent things on the soy subject ...If the writer is Vegan, Soy is God..if the writer is Anti-Vegan, soy is the devil....you get the Idea.

Anything in excess is bad for you.....I would really like to see a study comparing the effects of the phytoestrogens in soy and the various growth hormones in factory farmed animal products..that would be interesting.

[TheVeganicWitch]

I totally agree, there is very little unbaised information out there and I have done LOTS of research. This is some tidbits I have come up with from that research

1) The studies that state soy is dangerous are often deceptive. For instance, other factors in the environment will be minimised (i.e. Hawaii study - aluminium used in processing tofu, not testing for iodine levels when claiming a connection between soy and thyroid problems).

2) Some info comes from animal studies where small...

[TheVeganicWitch]

...mammals are fed soy as their entire diet, normally in the form of an isolate. No human does this, therefore I do not believe the results are applicable. The American Dietetic Assoc and other bodies agree that soy should not be considered dangerous as part of a balenced diet.

3) Many other foods contain compounds capable of mimicking human hormones, including animal foods. I would place a bet that the hormones from a mammal would be more readily used by the human body then those of plants.

[Baratgab]

Though, I think it's worth to mention that quite a lot of mock-foods, protein bars and other vegan products are highly processed, and contain soy protein isolate. I personally wouldn't recommend these as a part any balanced diet. As far as I know most vegan doctors (McDougall, Esselstyn and the like) explicitly talk against these products. McDougall has an online article about this, titled "Soy - Food, Wonder Drug, or Poison?".

[Dall5000]

If you're looking for muscle gain then here are some choices:

Potatoes

Beans

Oats (Oatmeal)

Nuts & Almonds

Green Vegetables

Whey

[HandOfMusic]

whey's not vegan

[cujosdad]

"Why 100% vegan?"

It's not about health...It's an ethical decision for most Vegans but, that being said, The amount of effort required to eat a healthy Vegan diet is really minimal . Protein is a non-issue ... B-12 is a minor, easily dealt with issue. It is also possible to have a healthy diet that includes meat... I and most other Vegans just do not consider it Ethical to eat Animals or their glandular secretions and eggs when we don't have to.

Hope that helps explain a bit.

[RicoRicanNYC]

Awesome, Have you studied this subject well? Do you know of any people in history that were vegan? I mean like humans back in the day long time ago that lived vegan life styles. Or have humans always eaten meat's. What studies have been done that one could look up on vegan vs Meat eaters? IF not for health then it's an ethical decision, can you explain more about that? I believe in "everything in moderation"

[cujosdad]

RicoRicanNYC

"Awesome, Have you studied this subject well?"

I would not consider myself to be an authority on the subject but, I have done enough research that I feel there is no other logical choice for me but to be Vegan.

"Do you know of any people in history that were vegan?"

The lines between Vegan and Vegetarian are a bit blurry as far as historical figures go. Somewhere along the Line, some Vegetarians decided that milk and eggs were ok to eat ..others even incuded fish..cont..

[cujosdad]

..in their diets. The term Vegan was coined about 60 years ago to define a lifestyle that the word vegetarian used to cover. So, we don't really know....But, here are a few famous historical vegetarians.

Pythagorus, Plutarch , Ovid, Leonardo Da Vinci, Sir Isaac Newton, Plato, Socrates..

I have not actually studied the level of vegetarianism that these people subscribed to because It does not really matter to me what other people have believed in the past.....I live here and now

[cujosdad]

RicoRicanNYC

"have humans always eaten meat's"

I would assume so...we are designed to be omnivorous...Ancient Humans probably ate just about anything. I suppose their diets were similar to the diet of a Gorilla...lots of plants and whatever insects or larvae that they happend to come across...perhaps even the odd small animal.

But, did they consume the huge quantities of animal based foods that we do today? Not at all.

[cujosdad]

"What studies have been done that one could look up on vegan vs Meat eaters? IF not for health then it's an ethical decision, can you explain more about that?"

I would have to do a couple videos in order to even begin to respond to that...here is a site that will explain some of it

chooseveg(dot)com

[oneandonlyhypnos]

Vegetarians have been around the longest as far as I can tell historically. I've got a copy of the Baghavad Gita here, and in the religious texts a vegetarian diet is promoted, including the use of milk (no eggs) from the sacred cows... I think the terms are also culturally different. What is vegetarian seems to be understood different in India, than in the West

[Baratgab]

I know it's strange to hear, but humans don't need any kind of high-protein food. It's a myth, seriously. :) Even if we don't consume any animal products, our protein requirements are automatically met, no matter what are we eating. And the body have some very nasty catabolic pathways for the excess amino acids; too much protein is one of the major problems with our diet. If you are interested, I recommend to google "McDougall - history of protein" and "McDougall - protein overload".