What Speer did for the Reich, Lutyen did for the British Raj, I don't find him a visionary in that sense. The idea of the State as superhuman expressed through architecture seems very primitive to me.The democratic modern world needs to rid the idea of the architecture and architect and re-establish them not as the ego of its people but their humility.We need to live in a world rid of walls.
This old guy my mom knows has a authentic German WWII Luger pistol and a letter in responce to a qestion from Albert Speer the Luger is about $35,000 lol
anything that has to do with the nazis is wrong or bad which obviously can not be true. this shit aka documentary is too biased...oh, and i am not white...
@dekubaner Nothing in nature or in this world is completely or absolutely wrong or bad or untruthful. But it seems that decades of mainstream historians, journalists, filmmakers and propagandists have shaped our minds to believe in a biased black and white description of WWII. For example, I’m sure you wouldn’t say that the Volkswagen Beetle, a Nazi invention, was an evil product. ¿Would you?
As with all typical products of decades of MultiCultural Marxist brainwashing you
dont even know what culture means. You think a "culture" is a conglomeration
of quirks, special interests, freak shows that all have equal claim in being coddled and protected. In truth a culture is more like a artistic expression..in which lots of bad choices are rejected so that something superior can be
created. Should homosexuals be given equal standing to marriage that produces children. Absolutely not.
@ehunter2 As with all typical products of ____. I haven't yet talked to a Nazi whose beliefs weren't essentially an agglomeration of vague ad hominems, and you haven't disappointed so far.
Friend, I don't know who you think you're talking to, but I'm better educated and more discriminating in terms of taste than you'll ever be. Which is why I know the value to our own civilization provided by men like Avicenna and Averroes and Leonardo and Whitman and other assorted queers and Muslims.
@ehunter2 Yes, and I totally buy your "it's crippling" argument. Because we all know how great Shakespeare and Leonardo and Marlowe and Whitman could have been if it weren't for all that ghey. How sad, really. All the wasted potential.
You're a heterosexual (ha!) I take it. Explain to me what you've managed to do with your own life, or, alternatively, how your crippling heterosexual neurosis has kept you back. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
@ehunter2 It's always the illiterate, uneducated ones who assume that "there is no evidence" the men were homosexual. Except that in his lifetime Leonardo was arrested for Sodomy, and in the Queen's Pictures there is a collection of erotic art done by Leonardo featuring the male model he lived with and who served as the model for his famous John the Baptist.
Likewise,anyone who's actually read Whitman can't in good faith argue that the Callamus poems weren't about unrequited homosexual,,(cont)
@ehunter2 You mean why *not* Michelangelo? Hate to burst your bubble on this one as well, but there's a fantastic argument that he was a self-loathing homosexual just like you.
@ehunter2 You haven't met many gay people, have you?
Let me repeat my challenge from bellow. You still haven't answered it: "what the hell have you done with your own miserable failure of a life that gives you the ability to evaluate the lives of others? What with your gun collection and your Fox News viewership and your Rush Limbaugh man crush? Go ahead, I want you to justify your existence for me."
@ehunter2 (cont. pt.2)...desire. Especially since, *during his lifetime* there was a great deal of commentary on *exactly* this subject.
Likewise anyone who claims (or accepts on faith) that Shakespeare has no homosexual tendencies demonstrates to me that he has no knowledge of Shakespeare either. Read through the first 1/3 of his sonnets and you'll detect a pattern - they're all written to men (or a man). Likewise, read the bizarre, gender-bending shenanigans that he puts his male ...(cont.)
@ehunter2 Who said he was a genius because of his homosexuality? I certainly said no such thing. But since we're on the topic, I'll ask the question again - what the hell have you done with your own tragic, miserable failure of a life that gives you the ability to evaluate the lives of others? What with your gun collection and your Fox News viewership and your Rush Limbaugh man crush? Go ahead, I want you to justify your existence for me.
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 3)...actors and (and his males playing females) through in Twelfth Night (particularly the final acts, and especially the relationship between Sebastian and his older male friend).
As for Marlowe, I thought that one would be even more obviously true, since, again, the man was accused of Sodomy, he was reputed to have held numerous Homoerotic interpretations of the Bible to be true, and he once commented that "anyone who says he doesn't enjoy...(cont.)
@ehunter2 (cont. pt 4) ...boys or tobacco is either a fool or a liar." Read, likewise, Edward II and Hero and Leander.
In the interests of fairness (though I doubt you'll understand the academic point I'm making here) - I don't believe that they were gay in the sense of an "essential" gayness - as in an innate, biological love of lavender shirts, which clearly does not exist. What I mean is to suggest that they were deeply attracted to individuals of the same gender and that ...(cont.)
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 5) this point is abundantly clear to anyone familiar with their lives and work. I have not, however made the argument that "homosexuality must be the creative part of these men" - that's an argument you've attributed to me. But if you need me to make that argument, I will. Here I'll direct you to the famous essay by Freud, "Civilization and its Discontents" - particularly its explanation of the theory of sublimation - that sexual desire, when redirected elsewhere.. (cont.)
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 6) ... (as it must be in a world where homosexuality is a crime often punishable by death) is redirected as creative and cultural activity. Thus the artist is always at some level an individual who finds his unrequited, unfulfilled desires fueling his creative activity. It is, therefore, not at all surprising the significant proportion of people with homosexual tendencies among our civilization's Great Men.
The problem is not that there lacks evidence that...(cont.)
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 7) ... men had homosexual tendencies, but that *you* accept it on *faith* that they had no such tendencies, despite the fact that you have no actual knowledge otherwise, which to my mind indicates your own neurosis - your constant need to validate your own personal, individual sense of sexual orientation from the subconscious threat of the idea that anyone can possibly be different. In a deeper level you see people who are different as a threat to you, a threat ..(cont.)
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 8) ...your sexuality and thus to your personal integrity, and this fear manifests itself in an inability to recognize the fact that homosexuals exist, that they exist because nature is a strange place, and that it is *your* refusal to accept *this* fact which causes the disfunctions which you wrongly perceive to be a product of homosexuality. In effect, it is narrow, frightened people like you who build societies oppressive to others, and then use the fact that they...(cont)
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 9) ...are oppressed to validate your actions. You make the black man a shoe shine boy and then use his occupation as evidence of his inferiority. It's stupidity of the highest magnitude.
To summarize - I have *facts* on my side, you have ignorant suppositions. *Your* ignorant suppositions are evidence of a deep-seated neurosis. Not my facts.
@ehunter2 Not at all unconscious. My choice was calculated and deliberate. Anyone who sympathizes in any way with the Nazi regime *is* a Nazi. There is no moral or intellectual middle ground.
Also, how often does this discussion bring up images of hunks in thongs to your mind? Clearly you've given quite some thought to it. Never found a homophobe that didn't have an active imagination for gay sex acts. You might want to look into that before you start making statements about other people.
@ehunter2 Seriously, I've asked you twice: justify your existence for me. I'm not going to let you get away with the bullshit of demanding that everyone who is not you must be Shakespeare or otherwise their lives have no validity or meaning, especially if you won't even bother to evaluate yourself according to the same criteria you apply to others. Go ahead. Justify your existence as a human being. I'm waiting.
@Quinibus Also, does the irony completely escape you that you began this conversation complaining that you fell the appellation "nazi" unfairly dismisses your beliefs, and now suddenly it's okay that everyone who is different from you is suddenly a "fag interior designer." Hey pot, meet my friend kettle, he's black just like you.
Also, it's no skin off my teeth if your aesthetic sense is so lacking that "interior design becomes a synonym for "useless," though, for me, if that were ...(cont.)
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 2) the case, I probably wouldn't start commenting on art - a subject where people without any aesthetic sense should probably bow out before they make a fool out of themselves. But that would require some form of intellectual consistency, something I've only seen from you in one regard - your willingness to comment on things that you neither understand, nor have taken the time to understand, but still believe that your "insights" (read: bigotry) are somehow valuable..(cont.)
@Quinibus (cont. pt 3) Nowhere is this more apparent than your delusion that men like Shakespeare and Whitman were unwilling captives who "triumphed" against themselves, despite this horrible handicap. I gave you a remedial reading list (since public schooling has clearly failed you) now go out and read them - two of the treasures of Western Civilization - Whitman's Calamus poems and Shakespeare's sonnets. They're both celebrations of same sex love. Not self-loathing refutations of the ...(cont)
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 4) ... type that a closeted, self-hating queer like yourself finds necessary to protect the delicate house of cards that is his own "heterosexuality."
@ehunter2 No, you have made this demand, implicitly. You've stated numerous nonsensical things - that Shakespeare and Whitman "overcame" this crippling "disease," despite the fact that anyone who has ever read either could never possible come to such a conclusion. Further, you convince me that never in your life have you ever actually *met* a gay person, since clearly in your mind they aren't firmly separated from the image of the most generic and (to your mind) grotesque stereotype...(cont)
@Quinibus (cont. pt 2)... But I can't demand you to be aware of all of the lives of other people, how they meet the basic demands of love, acceptance, and community. If everyone was required to be completely knowledgeable about all the lives of others, no one would get anywhere. I can only refer you to literature, which is the one surrogate that everyone benefits from in this regard. Seriously, read the Calamus poems, read Shakespeare's sonnets. You'll come out with a better sense of ...(cont)
@ehunter2 Tell me really quickly what unifies Frederick the Great (also a homosexual) and Oscar Wilde. What do they have in common? Or what do Gore Vidall and the fellow who works at the barber shop have in common? Or insert your own favorite random gay athlete and compare with your own favorite gay stereotype.
Here's a hint: they have nothing in common. Your reliance on the stereotypes that exist in the heads of bigots only further establishes your complete ignorance on this topic...(cont.)
@Quinibus (cont.) ... and the gays of the modern era? The ones since Shakespeare? How about Alan Turing? Hey guess what, friend, that machine you're using here to talk to me with, the thing that actually *enables* our conversation - yeah, that's the invention of a gay man. Uh-oh.
For that matter why don't you look up the story of the most important man of the last century, you might find it informative as to why narrow bigots like yourself damage society far more than you'd like to ...(cont.)
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 3)... pretend that gay people do. Turing invented all of the basics of modern computers and programming, he gave his name to the Turing test, and he was instrumental in breaking the Nazi codes during the war, thus making him a war hero. Then, uh-oh, it turned out that he was gay, and since we all know that gay people can't be decent fellows or heroic in anyway, the government attempted to give him a prison sentence and "hormone therapy" that left him emotionally..(cont.)
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 4) ...unbalanced and physically deformed. Tragically he took his own life. The homophobic government of Great Britain killed the most important mind of the modern era, and little bigots like yourself enabled it.
So, seriously, fuck you if your criteria for someone else's life is that they must be the best and most accomplished, because guess what, far better men then yourself have been unapologetic "faggots" and don't need your approval one way or the other.
@ehunter2 Not a real statistic. At all. That bullshit comes from groups run by people like George Alan Rekers (of Family Research Council fame) who was later caught on vacation with a fellow he met on Rentboy dot com.
The simple fact of the matter is that most of these "studies" are the product of a handful of people. Paul Cameron is the most interesting. Brought up on ethics charges by every single academic group from here to Canada back in the early 80s, way before the gay rights (cont)
@Quinibus (cont. pt 2)...gained any sort of mainstream recognition. His other claim to fame is the famous "study" alleging second-hand smoke causes cancer (later found to be bullshit - he literally just made up numbers) and the one where he said that gay marriage in Scandinavia led to decreased rates of heterosexual marriage, despite the fact that when the study was written there *was no gay marriage* in any of the countries of Scandinavia. More info: tinyurl ( . ) com / 4tw6rrr
@ehunter2 What a real moron you are. I just simply can't get through to you, can I? I'm glad your generation is finally dying off and a better one is moving in to replace hopeless ignoramuses like yourself.
If it weren't for Galileo's heliocentrism, he would still be writing books today. Heliocentrism killed Galileo. If only he would have acknowledge the Biblical truth that the sun revolves around the earth. Instead he was trapped in this little disease called heliocentrism. Pity.
@ehunter2 And yet the proportion of the population that supports gay marriage is increasing all the time. Strange, huh? It's almost like your moronic generation is dying off and a more civilized, better educated one is replacing you.
Conservatism is a disease, like homophobia. It manifests itself in the weak and the ignorant: the people who have been burned by life. They retreat to it because of its conformity, because it makes no demands that one be an agile or original thinker. It ...(cont.)
@Quinibus (cont) provides a system of absolutes which provides "definate" and "absolute" answers to all problems. It's like Sharia in that way an all-encompassing system from which there is no appeal. It's primary charm for the weak minded is it absolutist tone - this is truth, life is not complex, everything which your parents beat into you when you were weak and still developing remains true, and the demands of the status quo are indistinguishable from the voice of God and expectations.(cont)
@Quinibus (cont. pt 3) .. of an absent parent figure. It's a system of the weak who need to be controlled. It's the ultimate slave morality. It seeks for the weaker and the non-conforming, everything which suggests that maybe the herd which one, as a child, was conditioned into being terrified into believing absolutely in, that perhaps this herd is wrong. And fearing the retribution of the absent parent - the belt of a disciplining father, they take it upon themselves to fulfill this role (cont)
@Quinibus (cont. pt 4) as the agent of retribution.
All things are just a matter of degree. The neurosis that causes conservatism is the same as the neurosis that leads to fascism and to theocracy. Its sources are fear and the need to punish. To make all morality a cudgel with which to attack the weak.
And the most amazing thing is that it's indistinguishable from the behavior of our relatives the Chimpanzee, who, likewise, give vent to homicidal rage the moment the solidarity of the (cont)
@Quinibus (cont. pt 5) is compromised. Again, as all things are matters of degree, the chimpanzee only acts out on a more primal level what the reactionary conservative would do for all things.
@ehunter2 Really? The homosexuals are the people making threats? Homosexuality was only decriminalized in 2005 and its the homosexuals who are oppressing people? Get. fucking. real. Wake up to reality, friend. Name me an instance where a group of gay people randomly attacked some Young Republican and left him bleeding to die on the side of the road because he was conservative? Or any society in which heterosexuality is punishable by death.
You're the completely delusional victim of..(cont.)
@Quinibus (cont.2) ... things you don't understand - of propaganda spread by folks like Ken Mehlman and George Rekers and Matt Drudge and other assorted homosexuals who work at the upper echelons of Republican policy making and who exploit your ignorance and stupidity to get their corporate-friendly folks elected. It only amazes me how anyone in this day and age can *still* doubt that that is the case.
@Quinibus Really.. 2005.. I can remember Gay Pride Parades in every American city going back decades.
Homosexuals ARE indeed highly oppressive. They live a lie...and then DEMAND that their lies
be rammed down the throat of everyone else. They have destroyed culture in Hollywood, destroyed
Art via pornographic junk, they have degraded education into "progressive" propaganda, they entire AGENDA is destruction..first society and then themselves. FAR more damaging than any incident
@ehunter2 Lawrence v. Texas. Look it up. You're delusional if you think Hollywood hasn't *always* been full of the gays. The Porn = art movement was a heterosexual thing from the 70s (and even then one finds antecedents among the dadaists and surrealists, and hell, even some of the lesser Roccoco figures get close); again, I suggest you shouldn't try talking about art if you don't fucking know anything about it.
@Quinibus Yeah, and the next time me and my friends are sitting around at the big Gay World Council meeting where we all get together and discuss our "agenda" for "destroying America," I'll be sure to bring up your concerns in the Question and Answer section at the end. Moron.
And turn off the Glenn Beck. If you want to know what the other side *really* thinks, you should *fucking* talk to them from time to time and make up your own mind. Don't buy into this propaganda nonsense.
@ehunter2 What are you talking about? Are you talking about kitsch? Kitsch is an ironic commentary on art, not art itself. It's the awfulness of kitsch that makes it intriguing. Again, I suggest you refrain from talking about things you don't understand.
The decline of the fine arts (or perhaps their reformulation) is the product of industrialization - the great artists of the past were the greatest of the craftsmen, in an industrialized society there are no craftsmen, thus art suffers.
@ehunter2 It's called camp. It's supposed to be bad. That's the point. If you want to know more, read Susan Sontag's famous essay on "camp:" tinyurl ( . ) com / 2udmda
I'm not following the end of your statement there - gays like to have fun, ergo they are destructive? Pardon?
Ergo works if you're attempting to delineate a logical progression of thought. It's used here to deconstruct the bizarre absurdity of his prior statement, in like an ironic way and whatnot. His statement was stupid, ergo I used ergo.
@Quinibus listen you dumb tit we all know what ergo means you do not have to write a diatribe. romans are dead and latin is dead so people who say ergo have been watching too many movies and think they're smart when in actual fact they're as interesting as the smell of ass. People who say ergo should be shot
@vaughangarrick I tried to be nice. Now I'm going to be not so nice. Take your illiterate ass and go fuck yourself. I've you've got a problem with my argument, say so. If "ergo" is the most exotic word you've ever encountered, then don't bother commenting on *my* level of literacy. And if you've got some irrational hatred against the gays like the fellow up above, don't pathetically hide behind comments on my (correct) use of the English language
@Quinibus I am gay you addle-pated twit. What makes you think I'm illiterate and your use of english is not only incorrect but verbose and contrived. Ergo is a word used by hung up university students with no money for beer--
Hitler said the Jews would destroy Germany. Hitler was, in fact, this evil "Jew," which was simply just the evil force of pure hatred in a human. Yes, Hitler fooled Germans into destroying themselves. Albert Speer was one of the Devil's henchmen...a highly intelligent opportunist nonetheless...
@ehunter, that's an astute observation. Contemporary politics and warfare is oft made an allusion to the Third Reich's policies. What made Hitler such an indelible historical figure was his ruthless control of social reactionaries and popular media.
@lefmeman I guess, if in your mind you omitt Hitler's disownment of the German people, Goering's treason, Himmler's treason. As it stands now, the war ended with Doenitz as President and Goebbels and Chancellor, and to go against them would be defying Hitler's orders.
Well written and edited documentary should be mandatory in the education of every new architect. Here is 'form and function' taken to a new level. Bobby Hughes did his homework. Trust me.
My only gripe with this 'documentary' on Speer's architecture is that it descends into analyzing the man --often insulting --, and not the architecture. Although Speer is an interesting character, as is his involvement with Nazi architecture -- an ironic mix of modern forms mixed with Neo-Classical cladding, and the scale of Boullee -- I am more interested in the theory of the buildings and their arrangement than the actions of Nazis or Speer's beliefs outside of architecture.
@KeeperOfProphecies This is adocumentart about both Speer and his creations. Why don't you try making a documentary of your own before nitpicking somebody else's?
Architecture expresses personality better than any other form, and I'm absolutely awed by the colossal coldness, grandiosity and narcissism at work with Albert Speer and his work. This was architecture by a culture with a morbidly obese ego.
I love architecture & do agree with what you said. He was narcissistic yes, as was Hitler (who was himself a failed architect and designed his own home and a couple other buildings), but can be no denying what an amazing architect Speer was .
If not for WW2, the [1950ish] Berlin that Hitler and Speer had planned - with models ready for - would've been nothing short of magnificent... the godlike caliber of a modern (Ancient) Rome. Ego certainly did have a bearing on it!!
Speer was a great artist, if he had worked here in america for good clients he would be much loved and respected. Can you imagine your one client is Hitler, think about the parameters he had to work within. Imagine Speers work mixed with a little Mies or even Wright influence, Speer could have been one of the best.
should have hanged with the rest of them, his show of remorse, whether felt genuinely or not, did not change the fact that his vision involved enslavement of people who where worked to death, he was just another eichmann... only worse, he had "vision".
Stalin enslaved people and worked them to death, where was his post-war trial? Oh that's right you only care about fighting Nazis like the typical Jew servant you are.
My comment wasn't about Stalin or Jews it was about Albert Speer.That's what the video was about. Perhaps you would like to explain what a "Jew Servant" is? It's not a concept I'm familiar with.
All political meglomaniacs wish to leave their legacy behind. Today, unbeknown to many people there is a new politcal/economic meglomania brewing. The dream of world domination is very much alive. The dreamers are the Rothschilds. Go to Isareli Supreme Court Building and you will see the sympolism of the occult, the masons and of anti-christianity. The courtyard is entered by trampling on and upside down and inverted cross. The building is topped with a pyramid and all seeing eye.
It seems today that Hitler is used as a analogy for everything. A country or culture cannot defend itself with any vehemence but that its called "Nazi". Every form of strong conviction is "Nazi". If anyone refuses to relativize and has a definite morality he is a "Nazi". This is the real destructive legacy of Hitler..not uniformity or miltarism..but millions of spineless half wits who are scared to stand up for anything.
Are you saying the Germans of the WW2 era had no backbone?? LOL, in spite of Hitler's evil cause, it was German ingenuity, ferocity, and collective military/civilian might that nearly allowed a tiny European country to dominate the entire globe!!!
A brutal Russian winter in '41 (if you know your history) is all that stood in the way of you speaking German today... whatever race you are.
Thanks to the backbone of "White" British, American, and Soviet soldiers that did not happen!!
@bobshenix Agreed! the russian winter did destroy the german offensive however the germans were partly to blame. as they aere not equipped with winter clothing to fight a winter war. also there was to many horses, more horses then men! and after the capture of the oil fields hitler should have used only mechanized transport, no longer horses.
Well put, very true... Hitler united a nation like nobody ever could nowadays, he was a dictator yes but dictators don't HAVE to be a bad thing automatically, if they truly put their country first and love their people as much as Hitler did, and stay away from corruption (very rare especially today). People like to forget that the Germans were NOT ruled against their will-- Hitler was the strong leader they wanted/needed.
And the Austrians cheered wildly as the Germans marched in!!
@ehunter2 Hitler was demonized to allow Americans and British and Soviets to fight him. After the wr, the propaganda stuck in people's minds and became reality, and no one cared to view Hitler in an objective way. So he is known in lies and half-truths, and has become a symbol for "evil", a Trotsky, a traitor to humanity. He now fulfills the role of a modern day Satan, who leaders can call upon to frighten people into line.
@ehunter2 Depends on what you mean by a "culture" "[defending] itself" with "vehemence." If that means that homosexuals or Muslims don't have civil rights, then yes, you're a Nazi. And an ignorant bigot. And the more "[vehemently]" you decide to "defend" your "culture" against "relativism" (all of which are very cute equivocations, btw) the more convinced I am that you're nothing but a frightened bigot who transfers his own fears and uncertainties onto people who never did him harm.
A young american intelligence officer -sorry I can't remember his name, I saw him in a documentary-, went to visit Speer after his years in prison. He told him that he was at the beginning of his career, and asked him for an advice that he could bear in mind during his life. After a few seconds, Speer answered him: "work on your charisma." Just brilliant. In fact, that's how Speer finally got out of everything.
Such is the benefit of hindsight. However I think needless to say it is easy to say look how good he was, yet he even said "if Hitler had friends, I must have been his closest", or words to that effect. He did some amazing stuff but I think he had a fair amount of influence on Hitler, not saying he could stop the war, or killing the Jews, but you get the point.
with all due respect, Albert Speer was an amoral man, he knew very well what was going on around him, he knew and did nothing of the extermination of the Jews and he did nothing, at Nuremburg he lied to save his skin. Speer was a very clever man, a genius but he had no conscience whatsoever.
i'm not looking to pick a fight but a lot of people did nothing. i don't know if it was fear or evil but unless we were there it's hard to know why it happened.
Albert Speer is one of the main characters in GERMANIA, a new novel by Brendan McNally. Germania takes place during the final days of the Third Reich when Speer was driving around the Ruhr, trying to countermand Hitler's destruction orders. Its a very darkly comic thriller, published by Simon & Schuster. Check it out!
THE IRONY OF ALBERT SPEER as the chief architect of the third Reich, is that he took insperation from 'Africa' of all places... so called sub human peoples, who, built the TEMPLE OF HATSHEPSUT in the 18 dynasty. I noticed this influence especially in the 'Mosiac Hall' and Hitlers office. Though Greek style is also widley used you cannot get away from the fact that he was probably a secret Egytophile.
You could be right about the Egypt influence, as he mentions several influence in his biography from the antique etc... I would have to look it up what exactly it was.
Speer reminds me of a "wet character " i'm guessing here, but then again at Nuremburg he took responsibility. Myself I'm looking him up, but, there appears to be some kind of 'paranoia' about stocking his books or decent public info. If you look up "Mortuary Temple of Mentuhotep II" with bits later added by Hatshepsut is a (blueprint for the Zepplinfield)
As you haven't come up with any shops etc, i hope you don't think im into creeping around with neo nazi fetish types... not my scene, i'm interested in architecture only and happen to be curious of what Speer had built. I'm also very curious about nazi "Wunderwaffen" as little is mentioned of it, though they brought the world into the Jet & Space age.
Albert Speer was a great man. For him to get 20 years imprisonment (almost a death sentance) was ridiculous. Karl Donitz who was the second fuhrer after Hitler commited suicide only got 10 years it's stupid. Speer was a weapons designer/architect and donitz was the leader of Germany ffs Donitz should have been Hanged for certain
Speer's assistant was executed. Speer was as guilty as he in the use of slave labour. Speer saved his neck because he broke with the others and admitted a moral guilt for supporting the Hitler regime (without admitting any other specific crimes and always claiming he knew nothing of the "final solution"). He was also kind of attractive though those who knew him well came to dispise him.
Who could blame a young 25 yr old for being so nieve, The Nazis had an architectual vision beyond and arcutects wildest dreams a city that could be built on a scale never to be seen, just imagine if there was no war and the germanic city had been built to the scale colosus they had planed
Speer naive! Please!! He was a self-serving bastard. He knew what the Nazis were about and he joined them because his priority was to get on. Just as, at the end, he managed to get Hitler not to name him his successor and to convince the Americans that he might be of value to them in the future and thereby save his neck.
I agree. Speer seems very much like a extremely career driven person. Even Fest admitted that he was deceived by Speer's charm. I do not believe one second that Herr Speer, who had wide reaching authority in the Reich had no knowledge of the concentration camps, when he made heavily use of forced labor.
His memoirs are interesting to read, although a bucket of salt is needed ;)
Do you know what Speer's relationships with his kids were before he died? My understanding is that he treated their mother s badly after she had stood by him loyally in Spandau that they wanted nothing to do with him.
I am not entirely certain. I remember seeing a show about Speer's son, who is also an renowned architect. But they talked more about architectural things rather than family stuff.
50 years ago I saw a very good film called Die Lezte Akt with a Oskar Werner as a young soldier who somehow winds up in the Fuehrerbunker in the final hours. The thought occurred to me that all these generals and ministers were hanging on to Hitler to the last second, because it was only in Hitler's world that they were anything. It was all career!Tolstoy says about the mighty Napoleon (as he surveys the battlefield after Borodino)that he was actually manipulated by the expectations of others.
Especially Speer was a victim of that. In his memoirs he often states that he tried to remove himself from Hitler, but every time Hitler would compliment him his intentions to leave evaporated.
Speer utterly depended on Hitler for authority within the inner circle. If you were gone from the circle for too long your authority quickly waned. This becomes especially clear when Speer could not work due to an injury. Hitler quickly forgot people when he didn't see them every day.
I always thought Speer was in a category separate from his political colleagues. Indeed,Hitler had a certain contempt for people who were in politics. One gets the impression from Speer at least that Hitler saw in him everything he had wanted to be: tall, handsome, a gifted architect ( according to H's tastes).
I always suspected that S flew to Berlin at the last minute because he got wind that H was going to name him his successor. I notice in this video that his aide concurred.
PiobMhor, I don't believe this. Hitler totally identified with Speer. Speer was different from his other "associates". He was tall, fair-haired, handsome, well-spoken, charming AND an artist--all the things Hitler wanted to be. Speer was Hitler's eternal favorite, whether he was present or not. In fact I suspect that the reason Speer flew to Berlin just before the end was to persuade Hitler not to name him his successor. Hitler could deny Speer nothing. So poor Donitz was stuck with it.
Germania was a doomed concept which contained within it the seeds of it's own destruction. Lesson to be learned there. Good Architecture serves people, it shouldn't be the other way round.
Suggest you read more and practice your spelling, it's not brilliant.
actually his good architecture was supposed to feed the egos.He said himself that when the project will materialize, most royals and presidents will be so impressed that they will be scared of him.Veridict !
The vast majority of Germans just thought they were work camps. Anyway, all media was controlled by the Nazis. It seems people get some sort of sick pleasure, by thinking that all Germans approved of the persecution of the Jews; but my German grandmother has a lot of Jewish friends in Bavaria, who she assisted getting out of Germany at great risk to her life.
The documentary evidence proves absolutely that the Germans approved of the persecution of the Jews. The believed all the stereotypes the nazis gave of Jews even before Hitler came to power.
I am sorry to disabuse you--I have heard so many bs stories about how "my mother" actually helped the Jews. The Danes and Swedes helped the Jews. The Italians helped them when no one was watching them; then they persecuted them as good as the Germans.
Approving of persecution does not mean Germans at large agreed with the annihilation of the concentration camp inmates. In fact as the Bavaria Project of Broszat has shown most Germans were ok with persecution, but not with brutality.
This could be seen during the Reichs Kristallnacht, which lasted "only" two days, but was never repeated due to the negative reaction of the majority of Germans. And it is in fact true that many Germans helped Jewish people.
Murder as the solution to the "Jewish Question" in German was a notion that preceeded Hitler and the Nazis. As for the notion that there was only one Kristalnacht because Germans didn't like it, with a year or two German Jews were on there way to ghetto and deathcamps. Germans organized the murder of Jews in German and throughout Europe. That is the salient fact; the rest is conjecture must of it after-the-fact excuses and outright fabrications. This has nothing to do with most Germans today!
Can you please produce some evidence to support the allegation that murder of all the Jews was supported widely in Germany, or that it was even planned prior to the Nazi regime? I am a modern German historian and have yet to encounter any evidence regarding your postulations.
You seem to be hung up on the concept that every German was a raging anti-Semite who supported the mass killings of the Nazis. This is a blanket statement that is certainly not redolent of serious academia.
Most Germans were raging antisemites. You yourself said that they approved of persecuting the Jews.This was not true of the Brits, et al. Reference to Ger "final solution" ideologies, prior to Hitler and the Nazis coming to power, are given in books by Overly, Goldhagen and others, which if you are a modern German historian you know.How widely is "widely"?I did not say it was widely supported.But the conincidence of its existence in Germany and the act of genocide is, I suggest, not accidental.
As to Antisemitism being typical German, that is incorrect. Just look at the Dreyfus case. Antisemitism is deeply embedded in European and Christian history. Why it culminated in the Holocaust in Germany remains to be answered adequately. Check out the debates over the Sonderweg (special path) theory, they are interesting.
In my mind Kershaw said it the best: "The road to the Holocaust was build by the indifference of many and paved by the hatred of few"
I know absolutely that Jews weren't the only victims of Germany's psychopathic murder spree: all the groups you mention, plus the mentally retarded and handicapped, the Russians, the Serbs and Communists.
The only comfort I can offer those who wish to salvage a kind of national honour for Germans is that I am convinced that in the right circumstances every nation is capable of such a murderous spree. We are none of us immune!
1. Germans building camps in central Poland to reform vagabonds and asocials? Please! You're too clever for that.
2. Arbeit macht frei was one of several mis-indications that if you cooperated with the guards you'd eventually return to a normal life; when in fact if you were not of an age, gender or technical skill the Nazis needed, your fate was sealed.
God help them!
PlobMhor, the best a good person, who likes Germany, can to teach this period of history is as a huge tragedy for everyone.
Some faggots will argue about anything.
Case in point: vaughangarrick and Quinibus
IamDayoldHate1 3 months ago
theres not much point even having a comments section on videos like this
1337ontoast 3 months ago
What Speer did for the Reich, Lutyen did for the British Raj, I don't find him a visionary in that sense. The idea of the State as superhuman expressed through architecture seems very primitive to me.The democratic modern world needs to rid the idea of the architecture and architect and re-establish them not as the ego of its people but their humility.We need to live in a world rid of walls.
fcgfgcfg 6 months ago
@fcgfgcfg that sir is a dangerous idea I hope o country will adopt. For the day we loose natinalism day we loose our pride.
Canadianloyalist123 2 days ago
Albert Speer has some nice visions of architecture, his influence is even nowadays visible in some parts of germany though he was a fuckin NAZI :)
SuperBigschlong 7 months ago
This old guy my mom knows has a authentic German WWII Luger pistol and a letter in responce to a qestion from Albert Speer the Luger is about $35,000 lol
TheNameIsLegion 8 months ago 3
anything that has to do with the nazis is wrong or bad which obviously can not be true. this shit aka documentary is too biased...oh, and i am not white...
dekubaner 10 months ago
@dekubaner Nothing in nature or in this world is completely or absolutely wrong or bad or untruthful. But it seems that decades of mainstream historians, journalists, filmmakers and propagandists have shaped our minds to believe in a biased black and white description of WWII. For example, I’m sure you wouldn’t say that the Volkswagen Beetle, a Nazi invention, was an evil product. ¿Would you?
FantomasXZ7 9 months ago
As with all typical products of decades of MultiCultural Marxist brainwashing you
dont even know what culture means. You think a "culture" is a conglomeration
of quirks, special interests, freak shows that all have equal claim in being coddled and protected. In truth a culture is more like a artistic expression..in which lots of bad choices are rejected so that something superior can be
created. Should homosexuals be given equal standing to marriage that produces children. Absolutely not.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 As with all typical products of ____. I haven't yet talked to a Nazi whose beliefs weren't essentially an agglomeration of vague ad hominems, and you haven't disappointed so far.
Friend, I don't know who you think you're talking to, but I'm better educated and more discriminating in terms of taste than you'll ever be. Which is why I know the value to our own civilization provided by men like Avicenna and Averroes and Leonardo and Whitman and other assorted queers and Muslims.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus Thats always one of the homosexual gambits isnt it.? So and so was a homosexual..
No tell us..since you are so very very smart..how it that you assume that their homosexuality was
a source of strength, instead of what it really is a crippling neurosis that men of extreme
talent were able to overcome? Hmmm? This certainly explains 99% of the other homosexuals
who lack genius are not able to over come their homosexuality and are merely whining, effeminate
self aggrandizing losers.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Yes, and I totally buy your "it's crippling" argument. Because we all know how great Shakespeare and Leonardo and Marlowe and Whitman could have been if it weren't for all that ghey. How sad, really. All the wasted potential.
You're a heterosexual (ha!) I take it. Explain to me what you've managed to do with your own life, or, alternatively, how your crippling heterosexual neurosis has kept you back. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus First..there is no evidence that these men were homosexxual outside
of your obsessive need to validate your own neurosis. Second you assume that
homosexuality must be the creative part of these men...in you case we see
how homosexuality paralyzes your mind, forces you to create delusional worlds
in which everyone shares your obsessions..and if they deny it ..that just proves it.
Lets take your behavior as the model of homosexual neurosis...obsessive, delusional,
miserable.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 It's always the illiterate, uneducated ones who assume that "there is no evidence" the men were homosexual. Except that in his lifetime Leonardo was arrested for Sodomy, and in the Queen's Pictures there is a collection of erotic art done by Leonardo featuring the male model he lived with and who served as the model for his famous John the Baptist.
Likewise,anyone who's actually read Whitman can't in good faith argue that the Callamus poems weren't about unrequited homosexual,,(cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus Again..the evasions.. Let us say homosexuality existed in a talented man. Everyone of
talent knows that it is a massive struggle to preserve talent from all that would sabotage it..
doubt, selfishness, egomania, immaturity. You assume
that homosexuality is the source of talent. In truth homosexuality is omnipresent in legions
of scammers, phonies, poseurs, flakes and morons. Why dont you talk about homosexual Hollywood
actors or interior designers? Why Michelangelo? Hmm?
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 You mean why *not* Michelangelo? Hate to burst your bubble on this one as well, but there's a fantastic argument that he was a self-loathing homosexual just like you.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus And it isn't an evasion, since every bit of my response was a response to a specific argument that you yourself made.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus If you remember..one of my accusations against fags was that they
were obsessive.. so..try again. Homosexuality is a crippling emotional disorder
that certain men of genius are able to over come. There are legions of no talent
homosexuals posing as geniuses..you know the type, interior designers, hair dressers
Hollywood actors, petty little nobodies who have no talent..by which to over come homosexuality
and so are just..well....fags.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 You haven't met many gay people, have you?
Let me repeat my challenge from bellow. You still haven't answered it: "what the hell have you done with your own miserable failure of a life that gives you the ability to evaluate the lives of others? What with your gun collection and your Fox News viewership and your Rush Limbaugh man crush? Go ahead, I want you to justify your existence for me."
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt.2)...desire. Especially since, *during his lifetime* there was a great deal of commentary on *exactly* this subject.
Likewise anyone who claims (or accepts on faith) that Shakespeare has no homosexual tendencies demonstrates to me that he has no knowledge of Shakespeare either. Read through the first 1/3 of his sonnets and you'll detect a pattern - they're all written to men (or a man). Likewise, read the bizarre, gender-bending shenanigans that he puts his male ...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus Again the evasions..always the evasions. Once again you assume Shakespeare was
a genius because he was a homosexual. How about Shakespeare was a genius despite
his defects as a person...his genius was preserved. Why not talk about the legions of phonies
wrist flipping nasty fag hair designers? or the vicious back stabbing fag gossip columnist..people
with no genius..just homosexuality.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Who said he was a genius because of his homosexuality? I certainly said no such thing. But since we're on the topic, I'll ask the question again - what the hell have you done with your own tragic, miserable failure of a life that gives you the ability to evaluate the lives of others? What with your gun collection and your Fox News viewership and your Rush Limbaugh man crush? Go ahead, I want you to justify your existence for me.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 3)...actors and (and his males playing females) through in Twelfth Night (particularly the final acts, and especially the relationship between Sebastian and his older male friend).
As for Marlowe, I thought that one would be even more obviously true, since, again, the man was accused of Sodomy, he was reputed to have held numerous Homoerotic interpretations of the Bible to be true, and he once commented that "anyone who says he doesn't enjoy...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt 4) ...boys or tobacco is either a fool or a liar." Read, likewise, Edward II and Hero and Leander.
In the interests of fairness (though I doubt you'll understand the academic point I'm making here) - I don't believe that they were gay in the sense of an "essential" gayness - as in an innate, biological love of lavender shirts, which clearly does not exist. What I mean is to suggest that they were deeply attracted to individuals of the same gender and that ...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 5) this point is abundantly clear to anyone familiar with their lives and work. I have not, however made the argument that "homosexuality must be the creative part of these men" - that's an argument you've attributed to me. But if you need me to make that argument, I will. Here I'll direct you to the famous essay by Freud, "Civilization and its Discontents" - particularly its explanation of the theory of sublimation - that sexual desire, when redirected elsewhere.. (cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 6) ... (as it must be in a world where homosexuality is a crime often punishable by death) is redirected as creative and cultural activity. Thus the artist is always at some level an individual who finds his unrequited, unfulfilled desires fueling his creative activity. It is, therefore, not at all surprising the significant proportion of people with homosexual tendencies among our civilization's Great Men.
The problem is not that there lacks evidence that...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 7) ... men had homosexual tendencies, but that *you* accept it on *faith* that they had no such tendencies, despite the fact that you have no actual knowledge otherwise, which to my mind indicates your own neurosis - your constant need to validate your own personal, individual sense of sexual orientation from the subconscious threat of the idea that anyone can possibly be different. In a deeper level you see people who are different as a threat to you, a threat ..(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 8) ...your sexuality and thus to your personal integrity, and this fear manifests itself in an inability to recognize the fact that homosexuals exist, that they exist because nature is a strange place, and that it is *your* refusal to accept *this* fact which causes the disfunctions which you wrongly perceive to be a product of homosexuality. In effect, it is narrow, frightened people like you who build societies oppressive to others, and then use the fact that they...(cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 (cont. pt. 9) ...are oppressed to validate your actions. You make the black man a shoe shine boy and then use his occupation as evidence of his inferiority. It's stupidity of the highest magnitude.
To summarize - I have *facts* on my side, you have ignorant suppositions. *Your* ignorant suppositions are evidence of a deep-seated neurosis. Not my facts.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus Again..the Nazi accusation..as automatic and unconscious and unquestioned
as your attraction to hunky men in thongs riding floats at the Gay Pride parade.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Not at all unconscious. My choice was calculated and deliberate. Anyone who sympathizes in any way with the Nazi regime *is* a Nazi. There is no moral or intellectual middle ground.
Also, how often does this discussion bring up images of hunks in thongs to your mind? Clearly you've given quite some thought to it. Never found a homophobe that didn't have an active imagination for gay sex acts. You might want to look into that before you start making statements about other people.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus You can drop names..but every fag interior designer can do that.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Seriously, I've asked you twice: justify your existence for me. I'm not going to let you get away with the bullshit of demanding that everyone who is not you must be Shakespeare or otherwise their lives have no validity or meaning, especially if you won't even bother to evaluate yourself according to the same criteria you apply to others. Go ahead. Justify your existence as a human being. I'm waiting.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus Also, does the irony completely escape you that you began this conversation complaining that you fell the appellation "nazi" unfairly dismisses your beliefs, and now suddenly it's okay that everyone who is different from you is suddenly a "fag interior designer." Hey pot, meet my friend kettle, he's black just like you.
Also, it's no skin off my teeth if your aesthetic sense is so lacking that "interior design becomes a synonym for "useless," though, for me, if that were ...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 2) the case, I probably wouldn't start commenting on art - a subject where people without any aesthetic sense should probably bow out before they make a fool out of themselves. But that would require some form of intellectual consistency, something I've only seen from you in one regard - your willingness to comment on things that you neither understand, nor have taken the time to understand, but still believe that your "insights" (read: bigotry) are somehow valuable..(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt 3) Nowhere is this more apparent than your delusion that men like Shakespeare and Whitman were unwilling captives who "triumphed" against themselves, despite this horrible handicap. I gave you a remedial reading list (since public schooling has clearly failed you) now go out and read them - two of the treasures of Western Civilization - Whitman's Calamus poems and Shakespeare's sonnets. They're both celebrations of same sex love. Not self-loathing refutations of the ...(cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 4) ... type that a closeted, self-hating queer like yourself finds necessary to protect the delicate house of cards that is his own "heterosexuality."
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus
You are one emotionally confused person arent you? Homosexuality is a crippling
emotional disease that leeches onto a person and destroys him ..its not the real
person. Part of this disease is that the homosexual is actually tricked into defending
this false existence even as it kills him. Much like any parasite-host pathology.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@Quinibus I dont demand that you be Shakespeare..I demand that you not be
the typical petty vicious little homosexual dedicating your entire life to subverting
society rather than spending one second looking at yourself, your emotional conditioning
and the origins of you own homosexuality..one second. But you cant and wont do it.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 No, you have made this demand, implicitly. You've stated numerous nonsensical things - that Shakespeare and Whitman "overcame" this crippling "disease," despite the fact that anyone who has ever read either could never possible come to such a conclusion. Further, you convince me that never in your life have you ever actually *met* a gay person, since clearly in your mind they aren't firmly separated from the image of the most generic and (to your mind) grotesque stereotype...(cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt 2)... But I can't demand you to be aware of all of the lives of other people, how they meet the basic demands of love, acceptance, and community. If everyone was required to be completely knowledgeable about all the lives of others, no one would get anywhere. I can only refer you to literature, which is the one surrogate that everyone benefits from in this regard. Seriously, read the Calamus poems, read Shakespeare's sonnets. You'll come out with a better sense of ...(cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt 3) ...what homosexuality is than going by broad stereotypes of things that you don't like.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus When you deal with absolutely predictable behavior..then stereotypes are both
inevitable and useful. You may have blinded yourself to it..but homosexuals are highly predictable, the
minor personality quirk differences between homosexual A and B are far less significant than the overwhelming similarities they share.
There is nothing "free" or "chosen" about homosexuality it is a compulsion and all compulsive
behavior is predictable, and boring.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@Quinibus
Back you go to Shakespeare...the remarkble one in trillion man.. why dont you quit the song and
dance and talk about homosexuality as it appears day in and day out in millions of dreary little queers?
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Tell me really quickly what unifies Frederick the Great (also a homosexual) and Oscar Wilde. What do they have in common? Or what do Gore Vidall and the fellow who works at the barber shop have in common? Or insert your own favorite random gay athlete and compare with your own favorite gay stereotype.
Here's a hint: they have nothing in common. Your reliance on the stereotypes that exist in the heads of bigots only further establishes your complete ignorance on this topic...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont.) ... and the gays of the modern era? The ones since Shakespeare? How about Alan Turing? Hey guess what, friend, that machine you're using here to talk to me with, the thing that actually *enables* our conversation - yeah, that's the invention of a gay man. Uh-oh.
For that matter why don't you look up the story of the most important man of the last century, you might find it informative as to why narrow bigots like yourself damage society far more than you'd like to ...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 3)... pretend that gay people do. Turing invented all of the basics of modern computers and programming, he gave his name to the Turing test, and he was instrumental in breaking the Nazi codes during the war, thus making him a war hero. Then, uh-oh, it turned out that he was gay, and since we all know that gay people can't be decent fellows or heroic in anyway, the government attempted to give him a prison sentence and "hormone therapy" that left him emotionally..(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt. 4) ...unbalanced and physically deformed. Tragically he took his own life. The homophobic government of Great Britain killed the most important mind of the modern era, and little bigots like yourself enabled it.
So, seriously, fuck you if your criteria for someone else's life is that they must be the best and most accomplished, because guess what, far better men then yourself have been unapologetic "faggots" and don't need your approval one way or the other.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus So why is that homosexuals even in the most permissive society..Netherlands
commit suicide at rate 10x that of heterosexuals. Why is that only 30% of homosexuals make
it to age 65..no matter how much "understanding" they get? Alan Turing was crippled by
Alan Turing..and his embracing of homosexuality. Unable to relate normally on any level his
world became more and more suffocating. He was 35 years old and living with his mother..
he couldnt talk to an adult woman for 5 seconds.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Not a real statistic. At all. That bullshit comes from groups run by people like George Alan Rekers (of Family Research Council fame) who was later caught on vacation with a fellow he met on Rentboy dot com.
The simple fact of the matter is that most of these "studies" are the product of a handful of people. Paul Cameron is the most interesting. Brought up on ethics charges by every single academic group from here to Canada back in the early 80s, way before the gay rights (cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt 2)...gained any sort of mainstream recognition. His other claim to fame is the famous "study" alleging second-hand smoke causes cancer (later found to be bullshit - he literally just made up numbers) and the one where he said that gay marriage in Scandinavia led to decreased rates of heterosexual marriage, despite the fact that when the study was written there *was no gay marriage* in any of the countries of Scandinavia. More info: tinyurl ( . ) com / 4tw6rrr
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus
If you want to know what homosexuality did for Alan Turing..look along the lines of his suicide..
a genius in one corner of experience..a complete failure at emotional development in
every other aspect of existence. Thats what homosexuality did for him. Oscar Wilde literary
gifts were likewise stifled and destroyed by his homosexuality..
ehunter2 10 months ago
@Quinibus Again the assumption that homosexuality is the source of distinction..instead
of what it is..a nasty low little compulsion like alcoholism.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 What a real moron you are. I just simply can't get through to you, can I? I'm glad your generation is finally dying off and a better one is moving in to replace hopeless ignoramuses like yourself.
If it weren't for Galileo's heliocentrism, he would still be writing books today. Heliocentrism killed Galileo. If only he would have acknowledge the Biblical truth that the sun revolves around the earth. Instead he was trapped in this little disease called heliocentrism. Pity.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus 31 Referendums on Homosexual Marriage. 31 NO votes.
But..your "progressive" ideas are so powerful no one can resist them. Take a hint spend more
time on the psychiatrists couch honestly looking at yourself and your motives, and less time trying to change society
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 And yet the proportion of the population that supports gay marriage is increasing all the time. Strange, huh? It's almost like your moronic generation is dying off and a more civilized, better educated one is replacing you.
Conservatism is a disease, like homophobia. It manifests itself in the weak and the ignorant: the people who have been burned by life. They retreat to it because of its conformity, because it makes no demands that one be an agile or original thinker. It ...(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont) provides a system of absolutes which provides "definate" and "absolute" answers to all problems. It's like Sharia in that way an all-encompassing system from which there is no appeal. It's primary charm for the weak minded is it absolutist tone - this is truth, life is not complex, everything which your parents beat into you when you were weak and still developing remains true, and the demands of the status quo are indistinguishable from the voice of God and expectations.(cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt 3) .. of an absent parent figure. It's a system of the weak who need to be controlled. It's the ultimate slave morality. It seeks for the weaker and the non-conforming, everything which suggests that maybe the herd which one, as a child, was conditioned into being terrified into believing absolutely in, that perhaps this herd is wrong. And fearing the retribution of the absent parent - the belt of a disciplining father, they take it upon themselves to fulfill this role (cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt 4) as the agent of retribution.
All things are just a matter of degree. The neurosis that causes conservatism is the same as the neurosis that leads to fascism and to theocracy. Its sources are fear and the need to punish. To make all morality a cudgel with which to attack the weak.
And the most amazing thing is that it's indistinguishable from the behavior of our relatives the Chimpanzee, who, likewise, give vent to homicidal rage the moment the solidarity of the (cont)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont. pt 5) is compromised. Again, as all things are matters of degree, the chimpanzee only acts out on a more primal level what the reactionary conservative would do for all things.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus More of your famous self delusion..no one is accepting homosexuality as normal
only by constant screaming, threatening and propaganda does the homosexual get any "progress"
as soon as the intimidation and bullying stops people return to their senses. So we get the REAL
EVIL of homosexuality the constant need to twist, deform and lie to keep it all going.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Really? The homosexuals are the people making threats? Homosexuality was only decriminalized in 2005 and its the homosexuals who are oppressing people? Get. fucking. real. Wake up to reality, friend. Name me an instance where a group of gay people randomly attacked some Young Republican and left him bleeding to die on the side of the road because he was conservative? Or any society in which heterosexuality is punishable by death.
You're the completely delusional victim of..(cont.)
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus (cont.2) ... things you don't understand - of propaganda spread by folks like Ken Mehlman and George Rekers and Matt Drudge and other assorted homosexuals who work at the upper echelons of Republican policy making and who exploit your ignorance and stupidity to get their corporate-friendly folks elected. It only amazes me how anyone in this day and age can *still* doubt that that is the case.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus Really.. 2005.. I can remember Gay Pride Parades in every American city going back decades.
Homosexuals ARE indeed highly oppressive. They live a lie...and then DEMAND that their lies
be rammed down the throat of everyone else. They have destroyed culture in Hollywood, destroyed
Art via pornographic junk, they have degraded education into "progressive" propaganda, they entire AGENDA is destruction..first society and then themselves. FAR more damaging than any incident
of gay bashing.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Lawrence v. Texas. Look it up. You're delusional if you think Hollywood hasn't *always* been full of the gays. The Porn = art movement was a heterosexual thing from the 70s (and even then one finds antecedents among the dadaists and surrealists, and hell, even some of the lesser Roccoco figures get close); again, I suggest you shouldn't try talking about art if you don't fucking know anything about it.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus Yeah, and the next time me and my friends are sitting around at the big Gay World Council meeting where we all get together and discuss our "agenda" for "destroying America," I'll be sure to bring up your concerns in the Question and Answer section at the end. Moron.
And turn off the Glenn Beck. If you want to know what the other side *really* thinks, you should *fucking* talk to them from time to time and make up your own mind. Don't buy into this propaganda nonsense.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus You assume that anything you do is conscious, planned or intentional.
As with all gays you are a near robot..motivated by compulsive needs you barely understand.
There is no Gay World Council..just shared mass hysteria.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@Quinibus
We arent talking about "porn" we are talking about the deliberate degeneration of Art
into triviality by homosexuals. The substituting of homosexual tinsel cheap emotional
posing, costumery, fake emotions, hysteria, ...and then the INSISTING that such
fakery is just as good as the real thing. A massive campaign if unconscious...but then
all gays are fundementally unconscious about themselve or their intentions.
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 What are you talking about? Are you talking about kitsch? Kitsch is an ironic commentary on art, not art itself. It's the awfulness of kitsch that makes it intriguing. Again, I suggest you refrain from talking about things you don't understand.
The decline of the fine arts (or perhaps their reformulation) is the product of industrialization - the great artists of the past were the greatest of the craftsmen, in an industrialized society there are no craftsmen, thus art suffers.
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus But the point is that with gays everything is kitsch..everything is nothing more
than design extravaganza, a pose, a bit of
fakery..which fags think is okay because they know its a joke...one big costume party of fun
..and that entire compulsive avoidance and fakery is what makes Gays so destructive
ehunter2 10 months ago
@ehunter2 It's called camp. It's supposed to be bad. That's the point. If you want to know more, read Susan Sontag's famous essay on "camp:" tinyurl ( . ) com / 2udmda
I'm not following the end of your statement there - gays like to have fun, ergo they are destructive? Pardon?
Quinibus 10 months ago
@Quinibus people who say 'ergo' should be shot
vaughangarrick 9 months ago
@vaughangarrick So, like, what, the Romans then?
Ergo works if you're attempting to delineate a logical progression of thought. It's used here to deconstruct the bizarre absurdity of his prior statement, in like an ironic way and whatnot. His statement was stupid, ergo I used ergo.
Quinibus 8 months ago
@Quinibus listen you dumb tit we all know what ergo means you do not have to write a diatribe. romans are dead and latin is dead so people who say ergo have been watching too many movies and think they're smart when in actual fact they're as interesting as the smell of ass. People who say ergo should be shot
vaughangarrick 8 months ago
@vaughangarrick I tried to be nice. Now I'm going to be not so nice. Take your illiterate ass and go fuck yourself. I've you've got a problem with my argument, say so. If "ergo" is the most exotic word you've ever encountered, then don't bother commenting on *my* level of literacy. And if you've got some irrational hatred against the gays like the fellow up above, don't pathetically hide behind comments on my (correct) use of the English language
And if you can't do any of these, then fuck off.
Quinibus 8 months ago
@Quinibus I am gay you addle-pated twit. What makes you think I'm illiterate and your use of english is not only incorrect but verbose and contrived. Ergo is a word used by hung up university students with no money for beer--
vaughangarrick 8 months ago 3
@vaughangarrick There's nothing at all "incorrect" about "ergo." Nothing. It's a word. It has uses. My use was appropriate. Get over it.
Quinibus 8 months ago
@Quinibus lol you're a funny little man
vaughangarrick 8 months ago
For those interested in Speer, may I suggest reading the masterpiece " Albert Speer: His battle with truth " by Gitta Sereny.
funkyalfonso 1 year ago
I e tech
n8tivguitar 1 year ago
Hitler said the Jews would destroy Germany. Hitler was, in fact, this evil "Jew," which was simply just the evil force of pure hatred in a human. Yes, Hitler fooled Germans into destroying themselves. Albert Speer was one of the Devil's henchmen...a highly intelligent opportunist nonetheless...
parafleet 1 year ago
Makes me almost proud that my grandfather was part of revitalising germany danke großvater!
kierandempsey1 1 year ago
National Socialist architecture is so much better than today's degenerate rubbish.
stepheng1483 1 year ago
@ehunter, that's an astute observation. Contemporary politics and warfare is oft made an allusion to the Third Reich's policies. What made Hitler such an indelible historical figure was his ruthless control of social reactionaries and popular media.
fitzy098 1 year ago
If Nazis won, do you know how many books would be written about their crimes?
AdolfHparodies 1 year ago
This man Albert Speer is a fucking traitor to the Great German Reich. I hate him . Despite the fact that he has been dead for 30 years.
lefmeman 1 year ago
@lefmeman yeah very creepy that he acted like the perfect weasel, turning the coat whichever direction the wind was blowing!
JeuneFilleaCarnival 1 year ago
@lefmeman I guess, if in your mind you omitt Hitler's disownment of the German people, Goering's treason, Himmler's treason. As it stands now, the war ended with Doenitz as President and Goebbels and Chancellor, and to go against them would be defying Hitler's orders.
MusikAndLuv 1 year ago
@lefmeman He saved germany...who cares about reichs
SABRENOSE 1 year ago
Well written and edited documentary should be mandatory in the education of every new architect. Here is 'form and function' taken to a new level. Bobby Hughes did his homework. Trust me.
John Koistinen-Lindgren
Bangkok
Kingdom of Thailand
carsanookdotcom 1 year ago
My only gripe with this 'documentary' on Speer's architecture is that it descends into analyzing the man --often insulting --, and not the architecture. Although Speer is an interesting character, as is his involvement with Nazi architecture -- an ironic mix of modern forms mixed with Neo-Classical cladding, and the scale of Boullee -- I am more interested in the theory of the buildings and their arrangement than the actions of Nazis or Speer's beliefs outside of architecture.
KeeperOfProphecies 1 year ago 2
@KeeperOfProphecies This is adocumentart about both Speer and his creations. Why don't you try making a documentary of your own before nitpicking somebody else's?
MusikAndLuv 1 year ago
@MusikAndLuv As far as I'm aware, I'm free to espouse my opinions as I wish; and so I did.
KeeperOfProphecies 1 year ago
Architecture expresses personality better than any other form, and I'm absolutely awed by the colossal coldness, grandiosity and narcissism at work with Albert Speer and his work. This was architecture by a culture with a morbidly obese ego.
CristinaFernandez 1 year ago
@CristinaFernandez
I love architecture & do agree with what you said. He was narcissistic yes, as was Hitler (who was himself a failed architect and designed his own home and a couple other buildings), but can be no denying what an amazing architect Speer was .
If not for WW2, the [1950ish] Berlin that Hitler and Speer had planned - with models ready for - would've been nothing short of magnificent... the godlike caliber of a modern (Ancient) Rome. Ego certainly did have a bearing on it!!
bobshenix 1 year ago
speer always knew everything and he was a nazi he regret because germany lost the war. he play dumb on nuremberg trial
juano866 1 year ago
Speer was a great artist, if he had worked here in america for good clients he would be much loved and respected. Can you imagine your one client is Hitler, think about the parameters he had to work within. Imagine Speers work mixed with a little Mies or even Wright influence, Speer could have been one of the best.
MrSueVeneer 1 year ago
Speer was a great architect. His architecture makes modern architecture look like what it is, degenerate rubbish.
stepheng1483 1 year ago
I Think Speer was probably Hitler's "special" friend, if you know what I mean
Phineas1944 1 year ago
Oh! trust its is an "open secret" everyone knows he was a special friend.
cannoir 1 year ago
@Phineas1944
riight... keep fantasizing there homo
bobshenix 1 year ago
HEY! Check out GERMANIA, a novel about Albert Speer at the end of the war. Takes place during the Flensburg Reich of Admiral Doenitz. Odd, odd book!
Dasboogiewoogie 2 years ago
should have hanged with the rest of them, his show of remorse, whether felt genuinely or not, did not change the fact that his vision involved enslavement of people who where worked to death, he was just another eichmann... only worse, he had "vision".
AnEnemy100 2 years ago
Stalin enslaved people and worked them to death, where was his post-war trial? Oh that's right you only care about fighting Nazis like the typical Jew servant you are.
JimmySmers 2 years ago
My comment wasn't about Stalin or Jews it was about Albert Speer.That's what the video was about. Perhaps you would like to explain what a "Jew Servant" is? It's not a concept I'm familiar with.
AnEnemy100 2 years ago
his officers killed there own comrades because the wanted to flee...
he enslaved people yes,..
but in my opinion the UN should bring the us government before trial because they are as corrupt as the soviet union
13Psycho13 2 years ago
All political meglomaniacs wish to leave their legacy behind. Today, unbeknown to many people there is a new politcal/economic meglomania brewing. The dream of world domination is very much alive. The dreamers are the Rothschilds. Go to Isareli Supreme Court Building and you will see the sympolism of the occult, the masons and of anti-christianity. The courtyard is entered by trampling on and upside down and inverted cross. The building is topped with a pyramid and all seeing eye.
rmcnnlly 2 years ago 2
It seems today that Hitler is used as a analogy for everything. A country or culture cannot defend itself with any vehemence but that its called "Nazi". Every form of strong conviction is "Nazi". If anyone refuses to relativize and has a definite morality he is a "Nazi". This is the real destructive legacy of Hitler..not uniformity or miltarism..but millions of spineless half wits who are scared to stand up for anything.
ehunter2 2 years ago 27
No one forces Whites to obey that kind of media mind control, if Whites had any backbone they could resist it with tenacity.
JimmySmers 2 years ago
@JimmySmers
Are you saying the Germans of the WW2 era had no backbone?? LOL, in spite of Hitler's evil cause, it was German ingenuity, ferocity, and collective military/civilian might that nearly allowed a tiny European country to dominate the entire globe!!!
A brutal Russian winter in '41 (if you know your history) is all that stood in the way of you speaking German today... whatever race you are.
Thanks to the backbone of "White" British, American, and Soviet soldiers that did not happen!!
bobshenix 1 year ago
@bobshenix Agreed! the russian winter did destroy the german offensive however the germans were partly to blame. as they aere not equipped with winter clothing to fight a winter war. also there was to many horses, more horses then men! and after the capture of the oil fields hitler should have used only mechanized transport, no longer horses.
jippo77 1 year ago
@ehunter2
Well put, very true... Hitler united a nation like nobody ever could nowadays, he was a dictator yes but dictators don't HAVE to be a bad thing automatically, if they truly put their country first and love their people as much as Hitler did, and stay away from corruption (very rare especially today). People like to forget that the Germans were NOT ruled against their will-- Hitler was the strong leader they wanted/needed.
And the Austrians cheered wildly as the Germans marched in!!
bobshenix 1 year ago
@ehunter2 Hitler was demonized to allow Americans and British and Soviets to fight him. After the wr, the propaganda stuck in people's minds and became reality, and no one cared to view Hitler in an objective way. So he is known in lies and half-truths, and has become a symbol for "evil", a Trotsky, a traitor to humanity. He now fulfills the role of a modern day Satan, who leaders can call upon to frighten people into line.
MusikAndLuv 1 year ago
You opinion is cluttered.
HungNout 1 year ago
@ehunter2 People with strong convictions are dangerous.
ilkkavu 1 year ago
@ehunter2 No one could have put it better than you did here, ehunter!
barsakus 10 months ago
@ehunter2 Depends on what you mean by a "culture" "[defending] itself" with "vehemence." If that means that homosexuals or Muslims don't have civil rights, then yes, you're a Nazi. And an ignorant bigot. And the more "[vehemently]" you decide to "defend" your "culture" against "relativism" (all of which are very cute equivocations, btw) the more convinced I am that you're nothing but a frightened bigot who transfers his own fears and uncertainties onto people who never did him harm.
Quinibus 10 months ago
traitor and traitors deserve to burn in the depths of Hell!!!! fuck the speer
StariSloven 2 years ago
Speer was a great architect.
stepheng1483 2 years ago 2
A young american intelligence officer -sorry I can't remember his name, I saw him in a documentary-, went to visit Speer after his years in prison. He told him that he was at the beginning of his career, and asked him for an advice that he could bear in mind during his life. After a few seconds, Speer answered him: "work on your charisma." Just brilliant. In fact, that's how Speer finally got out of everything.
kiasmus 2 years ago 2
Hey do not knock the late Herr Doktor Speer.
3NUNS 2 years ago
Eugene Bird?? ...was US Commandant at Spandau. He wrote a book on Hess.
petethebastard 2 years ago
it wasn't a documentary, it was a movie
AnEnemy100 2 years ago
Such is the benefit of hindsight. However I think needless to say it is easy to say look how good he was, yet he even said "if Hitler had friends, I must have been his closest", or words to that effect. He did some amazing stuff but I think he had a fair amount of influence on Hitler, not saying he could stop the war, or killing the Jews, but you get the point.
jimmynswgr 2 years ago
with all due respect, Albert Speer was an amoral man, he knew very well what was going on around him, he knew and did nothing of the extermination of the Jews and he did nothing, at Nuremburg he lied to save his skin. Speer was a very clever man, a genius but he had no conscience whatsoever.
jimmynswgr 2 years ago
i'm not looking to pick a fight but a lot of people did nothing. i don't know if it was fear or evil but unless we were there it's hard to know why it happened.
krevice 2 years ago 2
true
jimmynswgr 2 years ago
Albert Speer is one of the main characters in GERMANIA, a new novel by Brendan McNally. Germania takes place during the final days of the Third Reich when Speer was driving around the Ruhr, trying to countermand Hitler's destruction orders. Its a very darkly comic thriller, published by Simon & Schuster. Check it out!
Dasboogiewoogie 2 years ago
THE IRONY OF ALBERT SPEER as the chief architect of the third Reich, is that he took insperation from 'Africa' of all places... so called sub human peoples, who, built the TEMPLE OF HATSHEPSUT in the 18 dynasty. I noticed this influence especially in the 'Mosiac Hall' and Hitlers office. Though Greek style is also widley used you cannot get away from the fact that he was probably a secret Egytophile.
Am i the only one to notice this???
insut07 3 years ago
I always wondered how deep Speer's racism was.
You could be right about the Egypt influence, as he mentions several influence in his biography from the antique etc... I would have to look it up what exactly it was.
PiobMhor 3 years ago
Speer reminds me of a "wet character " i'm guessing here, but then again at Nuremburg he took responsibility. Myself I'm looking him up, but, there appears to be some kind of 'paranoia' about stocking his books or decent public info. If you look up "Mortuary Temple of Mentuhotep II" with bits later added by Hatshepsut is a (blueprint for the Zepplinfield)
insut07 3 years ago
Gotta know where to look :) I have no problems finding information about him.
PiobMhor 2 years ago
As you haven't come up with any shops etc, i hope you don't think im into creeping around with neo nazi fetish types... not my scene, i'm interested in architecture only and happen to be curious of what Speer had built. I'm also very curious about nazi "Wunderwaffen" as little is mentioned of it, though they brought the world into the Jet & Space age.
insut07 2 years ago 2
Well, I don't know where you live, so I can't talk about shops.
I work at a University so I have access to tons of books and journals etc...
Just go to your local public or university library and ask a friendly librarian for help.
PiobMhor 2 years ago
You wonder about how deep Speer's antisemitism was. One thing is certain, it was not as deep as his self-serving careerism.
mc0558 2 years ago
You wouldn't say that if you had any career to speak of.
naltrexone23X 2 years ago
I have an excellent career, and I have never had to sacrifice my integrity or kowtow to anything like the Bohemian corporal.
mc0558 2 years ago
I would like you to upload the other versions of visions of space, especially the one of Mies Van Der Rhoe... please.....
less01 3 years ago
Albert Speer was a great man. For him to get 20 years imprisonment (almost a death sentance) was ridiculous. Karl Donitz who was the second fuhrer after Hitler commited suicide only got 10 years it's stupid. Speer was a weapons designer/architect and donitz was the leader of Germany ffs Donitz should have been Hanged for certain
MartinBormann1 3 years ago
Dude he was only leader for 2 days....
staniscanner 2 years ago
Speer's assistant was executed. Speer was as guilty as he in the use of slave labour. Speer saved his neck because he broke with the others and admitted a moral guilt for supporting the Hitler regime (without admitting any other specific crimes and always claiming he knew nothing of the "final solution"). He was also kind of attractive though those who knew him well came to dispise him.
Speer was lucky to save his neck!
mc0558 2 years ago
Bormann, is it true you were a Soviet agent?
mc0558 2 years ago
No, obviously Bormann was not a Soviet agent because if he was the Soviets would have supplied him with an escape route upon leaving the Bunker.
JimmySmers 2 years ago
Who could blame a young 25 yr old for being so nieve, The Nazis had an architectual vision beyond and arcutects wildest dreams a city that could be built on a scale never to be seen, just imagine if there was no war and the germanic city had been built to the scale colosus they had planed
BNPpaul 3 years ago
Speer naive! Please!! He was a self-serving bastard. He knew what the Nazis were about and he joined them because his priority was to get on. Just as, at the end, he managed to get Hitler not to name him his successor and to convince the Americans that he might be of value to them in the future and thereby save his neck.
Speer never did anything for anybody but himself!
mc0558 3 years ago
I agree. Speer seems very much like a extremely career driven person. Even Fest admitted that he was deceived by Speer's charm. I do not believe one second that Herr Speer, who had wide reaching authority in the Reich had no knowledge of the concentration camps, when he made heavily use of forced labor.
His memoirs are interesting to read, although a bucket of salt is needed ;)
PiobMhor 3 years ago
PiobMhor
Do you know what Speer's relationships with his kids were before he died? My understanding is that he treated their mother s badly after she had stood by him loyally in Spandau that they wanted nothing to do with him.
mc0558 3 years ago
I am not entirely certain. I remember seeing a show about Speer's son, who is also an renowned architect. But they talked more about architectural things rather than family stuff.
PiobMhor 3 years ago
50 years ago I saw a very good film called Die Lezte Akt with a Oskar Werner as a young soldier who somehow winds up in the Fuehrerbunker in the final hours. The thought occurred to me that all these generals and ministers were hanging on to Hitler to the last second, because it was only in Hitler's world that they were anything. It was all career!Tolstoy says about the mighty Napoleon (as he surveys the battlefield after Borodino)that he was actually manipulated by the expectations of others.
mc0558 3 years ago
Especially Speer was a victim of that. In his memoirs he often states that he tried to remove himself from Hitler, but every time Hitler would compliment him his intentions to leave evaporated.
Speer utterly depended on Hitler for authority within the inner circle. If you were gone from the circle for too long your authority quickly waned. This becomes especially clear when Speer could not work due to an injury. Hitler quickly forgot people when he didn't see them every day.
PiobMhor 3 years ago 2
I always thought Speer was in a category separate from his political colleagues. Indeed,Hitler had a certain contempt for people who were in politics. One gets the impression from Speer at least that Hitler saw in him everything he had wanted to be: tall, handsome, a gifted architect ( according to H's tastes).
I always suspected that S flew to Berlin at the last minute because he got wind that H was going to name him his successor. I notice in this video that his aide concurred.
mc0558 3 years ago
PiobMhor, I don't believe this. Hitler totally identified with Speer. Speer was different from his other "associates". He was tall, fair-haired, handsome, well-spoken, charming AND an artist--all the things Hitler wanted to be. Speer was Hitler's eternal favorite, whether he was present or not. In fact I suspect that the reason Speer flew to Berlin just before the end was to persuade Hitler not to name him his successor. Hitler could deny Speer nothing. So poor Donitz was stuck with it.
mc0558 2 years ago
Germania was a doomed concept which contained within it the seeds of it's own destruction. Lesson to be learned there. Good Architecture serves people, it shouldn't be the other way round.
Suggest you read more and practice your spelling, it's not brilliant.
AnEnemy100 2 years ago 2
actually his good architecture was supposed to feed the egos.He said himself that when the project will materialize, most royals and presidents will be so impressed that they will be scared of him.Veridict !
cannoir 1 year ago
I love the soundtrack composed for this documentary
ThemowofChow 3 years ago 2
The vast majority of Germans just thought they were work camps. Anyway, all media was controlled by the Nazis. It seems people get some sort of sick pleasure, by thinking that all Germans approved of the persecution of the Jews; but my German grandmother has a lot of Jewish friends in Bavaria, who she assisted getting out of Germany at great risk to her life.
marsxmu 3 years ago 3
The documentary evidence proves absolutely that the Germans approved of the persecution of the Jews. The believed all the stereotypes the nazis gave of Jews even before Hitler came to power.
I am sorry to disabuse you--I have heard so many bs stories about how "my mother" actually helped the Jews. The Danes and Swedes helped the Jews. The Italians helped them when no one was watching them; then they persecuted them as good as the Germans.
This is just a reality you will have to accept.
mc0558 3 years ago
Not only accept.
Respect!
And when our turn comes, Recreate!
88!
KensaimasterWung 3 years ago
Approving of persecution does not mean Germans at large agreed with the annihilation of the concentration camp inmates. In fact as the Bavaria Project of Broszat has shown most Germans were ok with persecution, but not with brutality.
This could be seen during the Reichs Kristallnacht, which lasted "only" two days, but was never repeated due to the negative reaction of the majority of Germans. And it is in fact true that many Germans helped Jewish people.
PiobMhor 3 years ago
Murder as the solution to the "Jewish Question" in German was a notion that preceeded Hitler and the Nazis. As for the notion that there was only one Kristalnacht because Germans didn't like it, with a year or two German Jews were on there way to ghetto and deathcamps. Germans organized the murder of Jews in German and throughout Europe. That is the salient fact; the rest is conjecture must of it after-the-fact excuses and outright fabrications. This has nothing to do with most Germans today!
mc0558 3 years ago
Can you please produce some evidence to support the allegation that murder of all the Jews was supported widely in Germany, or that it was even planned prior to the Nazi regime? I am a modern German historian and have yet to encounter any evidence regarding your postulations.
You seem to be hung up on the concept that every German was a raging anti-Semite who supported the mass killings of the Nazis. This is a blanket statement that is certainly not redolent of serious academia.
PiobMhor 3 years ago
*I meant mass killings of the Jews.
PiobMhor 3 years ago
Most Germans were raging antisemites. You yourself said that they approved of persecuting the Jews.This was not true of the Brits, et al. Reference to Ger "final solution" ideologies, prior to Hitler and the Nazis coming to power, are given in books by Overly, Goldhagen and others, which if you are a modern German historian you know.How widely is "widely"?I did not say it was widely supported.But the conincidence of its existence in Germany and the act of genocide is, I suggest, not accidental.
mc0558 3 years ago
As to Antisemitism being typical German, that is incorrect. Just look at the Dreyfus case. Antisemitism is deeply embedded in European and Christian history. Why it culminated in the Holocaust in Germany remains to be answered adequately. Check out the debates over the Sonderweg (special path) theory, they are interesting.
In my mind Kershaw said it the best: "The road to the Holocaust was build by the indifference of many and paved by the hatred of few"
PiobMhor 3 years ago
Say what you will. The words over the entrance to Auschwitz read: Arbeit macht frei!
mc0558 3 years ago
Which means "Work liberates", illustrating the concentration camp's past as working camps for vagabonds and other asocials.
Also keep in mind, it was not just Jews that died in concentrations camps. Dissidents, gays, gypsies were also victims of the regime.
PiobMhor 3 years ago
I know absolutely that Jews weren't the only victims of Germany's psychopathic murder spree: all the groups you mention, plus the mentally retarded and handicapped, the Russians, the Serbs and Communists.
The only comfort I can offer those who wish to salvage a kind of national honour for Germans is that I am convinced that in the right circumstances every nation is capable of such a murderous spree. We are none of us immune!
mc0558 3 years ago
1. Germans building camps in central Poland to reform vagabonds and asocials? Please! You're too clever for that.
2. Arbeit macht frei was one of several mis-indications that if you cooperated with the guards you'd eventually return to a normal life; when in fact if you were not of an age, gender or technical skill the Nazis needed, your fate was sealed.
God help them!
PlobMhor, the best a good person, who likes Germany, can to teach this period of history is as a huge tragedy for everyone.
mc0558 3 years ago