The Botzzepe fight was a fiasco.To atend a semminar and atack somebody is not the way how a chalange is meet.He stayed and finnished the semminar , so the beating coul not been so bad...and it's good that he comented the loss in souch a way.Everybody looses from time to time doesent meen they are worthles. As for your facts on wich you base your opinion ... doesen't sound sufficient enough to be a judge.I respect your oppinion , but don't agree whit it.
@selftrainedjedi about as funny as swimming and running into a monster floating turd! Regarding Cheung he brought it all on himself, had it not been Boztepe someone else would have beaten him up. Cheung offered the challenge to anyone, he clearly said it in print more than once. Cheung's Wing Chun is terrible, clearly useless for real street fight; worse it is very very different to what Yip Man taught (compare to videos of Yip Man). People are still in denial - Cheung students & Instructors.
Wait,I seen this Bozetpe guy is he a mid 30 something who , what attacked a man prolly twice his age?! Does that equal a win? I would think ANY sifu would learn to respect elder sifu's.
@selftrainedjedi (see my post below) again Cheung made the challenge in print! He openly claimed to be the best Wing Chun fighter and said if anyone thought differently they could challenge him anytime. He prob expected nobody would challenge him. Despite claiming to be best fighter & Grandmaster of secret traditional Wing Chun system taught only to him by Yip Man - he was beaten very easily & later made excuses to explain his easy defeat.
@CloudsBeyond Well any way you look at it jumping a man more then twice your age and from behind is pathetic. I have no doubt that Bozetpe is a top notch fighter. I am just saying this had more the feel of a guy satisfying his ego by attacking a older sifu twice his age. I suppose if thats ok ( which it isnt) why doesen,t he go to hong kong and attack ip chun he could claim victory over an 80 year old. I am sure his reputation would be secure then lol.
@selftrainedjedi he did not jump him from behind, he faced him at a distance, Cheung accepted the challenge and they fought. Cheung was 46, I think Boztepe was 28. Note : Cheung stated in print he was the best Wing Chun fighter and should anyone doubt it he would take them on anytime. Cheung issued the challenge in print, prob. thinking nobody would dare take him up on it. Cheung's Wing Chun is bloody awful & he was never a good fighter.
@CloudsBeyond I am putting it in print right now. I am surprised William Chung said he was the best fighter because I am the greatest fighter of all time! If anyone wants to challenge me just remember I scream like a girl and it will hurt your ears! My facial bones will hurt your hands when they break! Your fists will be bruised and bloody. Also my cries for help while being beaten are at such a high pitch that the sonic waves will cause you organ damage!
@selftrainedjedi about as funny as swimming and running into a monster floating turd! Regarding Cheung he brought it all on himself, had it not been Boztepe someone else would have beaten him up. Cheung offered the challenge to anyone, he clearly said it in print more than once. Cheung's Wing Chun is terrible, clearly useless for real street fight; worse it is very very different to what Yip Man taught (compare to videos of Yip Man). People are still in denial - Cheung students & Instructors.
@CloudsBeyond There is a reason for not showing the entire video of the fight you kow.... enyway, what is it you would advise us , Cheung style instructors... I started learnng Leung Ting system , did some Samuel Kwok w.c, did allso muay thai, and kicboxing, allso some BJJ to improve ground. My experience is that Cheung style is most realistic street prooven style of wing chun. ( probably couse it is more dynamic and more footwork). What is your oppinion based on.Did you fight Cheung's people?
@satori111 Cheung lost badly to Boztepe, you can make all the excuses you want - did Cheung ask for a rematch anywhere in front of witnesses or the press? NO! As he knew he would get his ass kicked again. If he was only Grandmaster of the secret traditional Wing Chun system, how come he got beat so easily? After the fight Cheung said 'there was nothing I could do , he came at me so fast' in front of witnesses including a reporter. As for Cheung's style (see next post)...
@satori111 (see previous post) Cheung's WC is terrible! I've been to seminars of his, did chi sao with him and students, also sparred one student. Much of what he teaches is very impractical & more importantly NOTHING like what Yip Man taught - easy to compare videos of them doing forms, movements etc. People need to WAKE UP Cheung got beaten so easily with Boztepe as his Wing Chun is not practical or effective & much of it is not from Ip Man but invented by Cheung!
Cheung's Wing Chun is terrible, very impractical for real self defense. Clearly his students are in denial, why did Boztepe beat him so very easily??? = because his Wing Chun is PATHETIC! Why did he not rush for a rematch with him to restore face? = because he got exposed once as a joke and didn't want to take another beating. Cheung's WC is NOTHING like Yip Man's - go compare to videos of Yip, Cheung left HK knowing little & invented learnt rest himself. Wake up Cheung students/instructors!!
@CloudsBeyond I watched the fight you mentioned, the one in germany. It seems that Mr. Cheung is being rediculed for not employing ground fighting techniques? If the workshop was a wing chung seminar, then why redicule him for sticking to the wing chun system? A challenge at a teaching forum has all the bad elements of a saturday night kung fu movie and none of the elements you would expect from a pair of sifu's. Challenging Mr. Chueng to a "bar room" type brawl just is bad form.
@selftrainedjedi I would say " So you think your kung fu is better then mine!" but I am sure yours is much better then mine. I am in real life somewhat rude and crude but I would never attempt to shame annother sifu in the way you have. Please remember that you learn alot from mistakes and failure, if your willing to analyse your missteps. Remember its not blackbelt theater.
@selftrainedjedi actually Cheung inmvited the challenge! He openly challenged any Wing Chun person, claiming he was the best fighter. Wing Chun traditional does include groundfighting! People like Randy Williams, Kernspecht, etc have added ground stuff too it but traditional Wing Chun does have ground fighting. Cheung was not ridiculed for not employing anything, he was ridiculed because he got beaten so very easily by a then novice.
While I'm a bit skeptical about Cheung's story, many of the techniques and concepts themselves seem to work quite well. I train in Moy Yat lineage Wing Chun and I also have a friend who trains in Cheung's. We sometimes train together and learn from one another. I must say I like the use of the entry technique and the central line concepts. Don't get caught up in the politics. Just study movement and technique., If you open your mind, you'll find things you like and also things that are common.
U want to know the truth about Cheung? Read this..the whole thing. He claims his is authentic wing chun...but the Wing Chun association in HK which includes many Ip Man's students including his sons....claim not.
Wing Chun is composed of Inside and outside fighting. Yin and Yang. The system is complete if you understand both and how to balance the two. Contolled positioning with the ability to utilize all hands (no long arm short arm technics)with the ability to destroy your opponent or simply defuse his attack. I personnally have seen enough variations from Viet Nam ,India, Malasia , and especially mainland China. to say there are many different levels of understanding in Wing Chun.
I dont know what all this "political bickering" is about, but if you "non-Cheungers" really think that William made up his own system, then instead of attacking his vids behind the "anonymity" of youtube why don't you actually try going into any one of his schools and compared what you've learned(whether it be Leung Ting, Wong Shong Leung, Ip Ching etc.) If you end up beating most students then by all means, bragging rights to you, but if not and you get put down then u should rethink yourselves
@MiniHulkMonster My man if you like willam cheungs WC method thats cool, as far as William being a good fighter I don't think I can dispute that. The problem people have with William is his suggestion that he lived in yip mans house and learned a secret wing chun system. I've travel to hong kong every year to train with yip c
Ching, ive been in YM apartment, its tiny. Both yip mans sons dispute cheungs claim. With a little research you'll Find holes in his story
train any style hard enough n youre gonna be tough..just look at mma fighters, hard hard men but the skill level? im sure he has tough students but how better would they be if they mastered real and complete wing chun passed down from masters rather than a style improvised and added to by just this one man
watching his form he has good strength but bad application. jumping kicks? silly. also in what is true section 5 his double attacks have no explosive power, just strikes. his hands come far from the arms in fak sau attacks. he knows yip man wing chun...in part but not the real deal. im sure its useful too but its not pure or true yip man wing chun.
Bruce Lee speak highly of Hawkin Cheung not William Cheung. No it doesn't matter which kind of Wing Chun you studied as long as you can kick the other guy's as$.
@hotboyme Yes he did speak highly of William Cheung. All you have to do is look for the video "Bruce Lee's first student Jesse Glover" and listen to what he has to say about it. If you think that's BS, then you'll just have to tell Glover that to his face.
@Nephronial Then why don't you put your money where your mouth is, smart ass? You think you're so knowledgeable? You think you're such an expert? I'll tell you what, go to New jersey and pick a fight with Keith Mazza. After he rearranges your face, you can, with pride, tell him how he's been misled, okay?
Believe the version of history or no, fact remains Grand Master William Cheung is a powerful and talented martial artist. You, we, anybody all can learnlots. I've done lessons in person and locked arms in chi sao with him. His energy is awesome. Leave empty ideology and rhetoric at the behind when you walk in the door.
and he doesnt allow his students to put any of the masters down he teaches us to respect you guys, and that we can learn things from other Wing Chun forms, which allows us to understand our form of Wing Chun better.
So basically guys just train your Wing Chun we'll train ours and keep your bad thoughts to your selves. Other martial artists laugh at us, they think were a joke because we bicker over such stupid small stuff. We should show them that we have a strong martial art also.
@singhakabuttar thanks man thanks alot, now if one William Cheung student says that then im sure one of each of the wing chun can say it and we can work together and evolve wing chun as a large brethern of members of the Wing Chun clan. The way i see it we all have a piece of Ip Man's Wing Chun, so in a way all the masters are correct because he taught them differently according to each persons advantages and disadvantages and so on. So we are brethern who do the same thing.
@singhakabuttar We just do it a little different from each other doesnt mean its wrong, what works for one could work for another we should work together and take all the usefull parts of each and make it one strong form of wing chun or if not that, then at least band together as wing chun martial artists who take this art as a way of life and learn to look past our small differences and train together and learn together. Thats my dream for my school to have different forms of Wing Chun.
@singhakabuttar all learning together as one brethern regardless of what linage and teaching each other pieces its a dream but one day it will be reality. Thank you for seeing things like i do.
@MrSinantra where do you teach mr sinatra, the way you have outlined is the only way forward for any martial art, to learn from one another and improve, by researching into different ideas, applications, we must not be afraid of progress.
@singhakabuttar im in the process of mastering it, i dont teach many, i only teach those i can see trully respect and love Wing Chun and its knowledge. but great to see that our generation will move it forward
@singhakabuttar im going to call my Wing Chun school the Wing Chun Brotherhood. Where all can train together and if good enough they can teach their extra knowledge and do seminars with all wing chun styles
@singhakabuttar i would start in my area first and search for other good wing tsun and so on masters so we can work and teach all Wing Chun that Ip Mans dream was to preserve all Wing Chun regardless of the different ones there are and as a brethern proove our style is a super effective art in the street not in a ring with rules and saftey no disrespect to the many great fighters in the ring easy to talk but to fight in a ring is different. But thats my dream.
You guys are pathetic man, if you dont like Grandmaster Cheung then dont watch his video's. Who teaches you guys to act like this, because if your masters really teach like that like i've heard, then they must be very jealous or something. Its silly if you dont like him just dont watch the video's but remember regardless of which Wing Chun Kuen, there is something to be learned from all of them. Im a personal friend and student of William Cheung.
@ClassicalWCMaster cont'd A real WCer can get from 1 side of the dummy to the other with a shift & maybe 1 tiny step, while keeping a solid stance. It takes him 4-5 steps & half the time his feet are right next to each other. Sloppy. Bad.
For all the talk u Cheung-fans give to "traditional wc's" supposed "superior" mobility & 50/50 wt. Distribution,etc....heres what I see: A guy who doesnt know how to shift on his balance-base. He takes too many stepa & uses too much energy.
...next time he should try it slow with a fixed dummy. Observing his `stance´ or `steps´ im tempt to state: William Cheung must have had whether balls of steel or a lot of meek and weak adversaries. Nowadays is could be a higher level than the most newborn grandmasters all around - but like most asians - he never liked to be touched by a olympic-wrestler or been challenges by other wingchun-masters. Cheung always wanted to sparr in solid boredom...
@ekakala While I ask "Master Ian" his opinion, you ask ANY of Ip Man's surviving students or relatives if he would have trained all his students wrong on purpose except for one arrogant teenage kid.
@Nephronial I'm not saying that GM Ip Man taught his students wrong on purpose but HE trained and treated each student differently individually according to Wong Sheung Leung. Do you even recognize the difference between the WC Ip Man taught in mainland China and the version he taught his Hong Kong students? Well my sifu is an expert at both Traditional and modified WC and he knows that traditional WC has some advantages over modified. May be it's because you know nothing about traditional WC.
Thats what Cheung IS saying. He says Ip deliberately trained ALL his other students wrong on purpose except for him, because he was the best, he was Ip's favorite, & only he was worthy. He says Ip made him take a secret vow to not reveal "Traditional WC" until after Ip died. It's bonkers. This story is clearly just as bonkers as Ashida Kim's stories of secret ninja training or Frank Dux's "kumite" b.s.. Wong Shun Leung, Chu Shong Tin, Hawkins Cheung & many others ALL say he's lying.
Well if William cheung is a fraud, then why has his wing chun worked for me in the streets? I'm talking about real fights here. I wonder if any of you internet warriors have been in one yet. If he's fraud why did the late Bruce Lee speak highly of him? Can some please tell me why the mainland China Ip Man students apply their WC differently from his Hong Kong students. Lastly, ask Master Ian Protheroe, who has learned WC from both William and Tsui Sheng Tin what he thinks of Traditional WC.
Here's why: Cheung did learn the BASICS of WC, there's no question about that. He definitely learned all of Siu Lim Tao, & he probably learned a little bit of Chum Kiu & perhaps a little bit of the wooden dummy set. And he got hands-on training from Wong Shun Leung for ~3 years. And THAT is the stuff that works. Any degree of effectivness in Cheung's system is attributable to the real WC basics he teaches but NOT his made-up fantasy crap.
@Nephronial I know and learn from teachers that have studied various lineages of Wing Chun, and common knowledge among all of Yip Man's students was that William Cheung was the best. There are 4 sifus from the NY area I know of who studied with Duncan Leung, and Duncan always told them that Cheung was the best. I can't personally verify Cheung's story of his training, but his methods are clearly superior, AND he always taught his methods in contrast to the modified, so he clearly knew both...
A. No, that's not "common knowledge". What IS common knowledge amongst ALL if Ip Man's other students is that Cheung's a liar. Don't take my word for it.
Read the famous VTAA letter.
Here's the common knowledge:
"Modified, traditional - it's all bullshit. That's just William making mischief"
-Hawkins Cheung
B. "Clearly superior" - to you, maybe. It wasn't very superior during the Boztepe fight.
@Nephronial Cheung knew and could demonstrate from very early on every form and every application, both versions of modified and traditional. this is all documented in books and video clips. Wong Shun Leung wrote an article in which he stated Bruce Lee could never get past wondering if he'd ever be good enough to beat Cheung. even WSL said he felt Bruce had more potential than himself, but was unsure if Bruce could beat Cheung. people hate on Cheung because he pissed a lot of people off.
I've read that article, and that's not exactly what it said.
People hate on Cheung because he pissed a lot of people off because he lies, & those lies malign the character of Ip Man, insult Ip's other students, insult the skills of all the rest of us, and it's despicable to lie to your own trusting (and paying!) students about what you're teaching them.
THAT's why people hate on him. And he deserves it.
People that don't know traditional Wing Chun dont know advanced footwook. The majority of Hong Kong Wing Chun dont realize that. The ability to fight on your opponents blind side alond with many inside angles is more advanced and just makes sense. The ability to move but still maintain Lin Sil Di Da (the ability to attack and defend with no long arm short arm) is more advanced way of thinking and also creates less time loss. Sorry but traditional Wing Chun makes more sense and is more complete.
People who don't know Real WC don't know what Real WC footwork even is. If you think "fighting on the opponent's blindside" isn't found in Real Wing Chun, watch ANY WCer doing the dummy set. It's all about going to the outside. Watch Jose Grados. Watch ANYONE.
Sorry but the stuff they tell you about Real Wing Chun in Cheung's schools isn't true. We know all about the outside gate ("blindside"), we know all about 50/50 weight distribution, etc. etc.
Con man or not, I have used his wing chun against people on the streets, I have sparred with skilled muay thai practitioners with it and its all turned out well for me. I like his style due to the increased mobility, i don't like to be in that unbalanced stance. Others may have a different opinion, I respect that opinion. Do what works best for you, forget all that lineage drama that some wish to take part in. All it does is make a joke out of the martial art itself.
If Cheung's WC is effective at all, it's a testament to the real WC basics he learned from Ip Man, Wong Shun Leung, & Chu Shong Tin. I'll clue you in on a little secret - if you actually make it all the way through the entire WC curriculum then the footwork opens up. Only in the BEGINNING are you told to keep all the weight on the back leg. If Cheungs telling people his system has "increased mobility" its one more giveaway that he dropped out before learning all of WC.
Who gives a shit. I guess I like Cheung's version cause i can use it more effectively quicker. Your missing the point. Who cares if he lied, its a great a style of Wing Chun and if you don't like it then don't practice it. As simple as that. It personally fits me best and for that I respect the man for his modifications. Us Wing Chunners spend too much time arguing over lineages its unbelievable. It just gives a bad name to the art itself.
1. Anyone who cares about honesty & respect cares if he lied.
2. It might be a great style, but it's neither "Traditional" nor "Wing Chun". If this is "Wing Chun", than so is Jeet Kune Do.
3. If someone was teaching JKD & selling it as "Classical Wing Chun", & you pointed out that it's neither "classical" nor "Wing Chun", is that "arguing over lineages"? (the answer is, "no")
in regard to people who said you are locked into chi sao and that is it. once you get to chi sao, you understand why you are locked into chi sao. everything you've practiced is applied in chi sao. if you are unsuccessful in chi sao, then you go back and practice what you need to. wing chun is a style similar to taijiquan. there is no end to learning the style.
once you've begun to develop the gong, you will understand this.
Are you Chinese TwoGunGunner? if not Yip Man would not have taught you. Wing Chun would be a SECRET that you would not be allowed to know back in the 1950's.
If Yip Man can chose to keep a secret from all races except the Chinese. It sets a precident that he is very particular with who he shares his art. There is no mystery about that.
lol why does everyone always bash William? Weather you like it or not, he is one of the only people who knows traditional wing Chun. Ive met this man and ive studied under him for years now... C'mon people... what are you denying? This man has been doing wing Chun for 40+ years and you say hes a con man. Lol. If you are so upset he knows traditional wing chun I would be too if I knew shitty modified wing chun.
Because he MADE UP "Traditional WC" & lies about it.
There's 0 evidence for any part of his dumb story. There's 0 evidence he lived with Ip Man, 0 evidence he started training when he says he did (age 10), & the idea that Ip Man trained ALL of his other students wrong on purpose for 20+ years is indefensibly ludicrous. If you believe it then you no doubt believe Ashida Kim's a real ninja. The whole story is stupid.
@MiniHulkMonster Good! I'm not interested if GM Cheung's learnt from YM his wing chun or from other way... He is best fighter in HK ever and his wing chun is the best from YM...
@MiniHulkMonster My man shitty modified WC makes you sound ignorant. If you like willam cheungs WC method thats cool, as far as William being a good fighter I don't think I can dispute that. The problem people have with William is his suggestion that he lived in yip mans house and learned a secret wing chun system. I've travel to hong kong every year to train with Yip Ching, ive been in YM apartment, its tiny no way there would have been room for Cheung.
Are you Chinese TwoGunGunner? if not Yip Man would not have taught you. Wing Chun would be a SECRET that you would not be allowed to know back in the 1950's.
If Yip Man can chose to keep a secret from all races except the Chinese. It sets a precident that he is very particular with who he shares his art. There is no mystery about that.
Sorry to say this but most of the non-william cheung schools are strictly locked into chi sao and thats where their training ends. I am not saying that there are no good instructors but im talking about the majority
The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
Dan Inosanto refering to a conversation with Lee "When he spoke of Bill Cheung he spoke with respect. It was Bill Cheung his senior in the Wing Chun system who helped train him to win the Hong Kong Championships in 1957." Without Bruce Lee it is doubtful if anyone would know about Wing Chun and without William Cheung Bruce would not have had his introduction to Wing Chun. How can you condem somebody from a previous generation who's history gauranteed the knowledge you now posess.
@shadjazz how do you know this? victor kan, one of yip mans students said that in hong kong, william cheung was one of the best fighters, and he would rather william cheung had his back covered than anyone else, so thats gotta say something about the mans ability as a fighter and wing chun exponent.
@singhakabuttar I travel to Hong Kong annually, I ve been in yip mans home, there is no way Cheung lived there, Yip Mans home is microscopic. Keep in mind Cheung is not the only student to claim he lived with Yip Man. As far Cheung being a great fighter, I wouldn't dispute that, Bruce Lee was a great fighter with limited WC training as well.
@shadjazz you are 100 percent right when you say many have claimed to live with yip man, from the videos ive seen of william chueng performing, although his forms dont seem spot on, his fighting ability definately seems to be applicable. so id have to agree with you on the points made!!!
No one is disputing that Bruce Lee learnt from Wong Shun Leung or Yip Man. Although he was introduced to both men by William Cheung. The only point I am disputing written on these pages by people who are ignorant of the facts is that William taught some Wing Chun to Bruce Lee. Saying William never actual taught Bruce Lee is historically incorrect. He introduced him to Yip Man worked out with him and taught him.
Dan Inosanto..."After witnessing Master Cheung demonstrate and perform wing chun, I stand in awe of his style." Dan Inosanto if you didn't know also trained with a large number of other first generation Yip Man students not just Lee and Cheung.
Two gun gunner you didn't read what is written below. Dan Inosantos statement at the front of William Cheungs Bil Jee book "Bill Cheung his senior in Wing Chun who helped train him to win the Hong Kong Championships'. And whom he learned some of the concepts that later led to the creation of his Jeet Kune Do." Can this be interpreted in any other way than Bruce Lee learning some Wing Chun from his senior William Cheung?? Who's opinion has more weight behind it Two gun gunners or Dan Inosantos?
@TwoGunGunnar The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
@TwoGunGunnar The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
Still waiting. C'mon Cheung-fans....it's been a couple months. Still nothing?
There's a LOT of old pictures of Ip Man & his early students. The guy wasn't camera-shy. Surely one of you has a picture of a 10, 11, or 12 year-old Cheung doing WC.
Surely one of you has some kind of picture verifying that Cheung lived with Ip man. There's gotta be SOMETHING, right? Or maybe a letter from 1 WC guy to another referencing "that kid living with Ip".
@TwoGunGunnar Go to Grandmaster Cheungs website and you will see the pictures you are looking for. There is one of Bruce Lee with William and another taken the same day with GGM Ip from about 1953.
@TwoGunGunnar No one can conform Williams story but him. And William would have you believe that Yip Man was so secretive that he didn't teach the real WC to any of his students, even his sons. Which begs the question, if Yip Man didn't believe the traditional WC should be taught, why is William Cheung teaching any and everyone who willing to for online instructions.
If Inosanto says that Lee told him he had learnt some of the concepts that led to Jeet Kune Do from Cheung and Cheung says he taught Lee some Wing Chun. What does that actually mean TwoGunGunner??? Could that mean that Cheung did actually in reality teach Lee something. That if we are to believe Dan Inosanto and why not as he is one of the most respected martial artists there is. Then Cheung did teach Lee. You surely can't now suggest that Inosanto falls into your gullable sucker column.
Cheung was Lee's senior in WC, & no doubt they worked out together, BUT everyone knows it was Wong Shun Leung who did most of Lee's hands-on training. Lee may have worked out with Cheung, but he LEARNED from Wong Shun Leung & Ip Man. Everyone knows that, now you do too.
In letters to WSL, Lee said, "Even though I am (technically) a student of Yip Man, in reality, I learned my Kung-fu from you." & "I thank you and Master for teaching me the ways of Wing Chun in Hong Kong."
that the modified version lacks. I consider Wing Chun Bil Jee, the deadly art of thrusting fingers a great contribution, not only to the Wing Chun style and its practitioners but to the martial arts world in general.
- Hong Kong. When he spoke of Bill Cheung he spoke with respect. It was Bill Cheung, his senior in the Wing Chun system who helped train him to win the Hong Kong championships in 1957 and from whom he learned some of the concepts that later led to the creation of his Jeet Kune Do. After witnessing Master Cheung demonstrate and perform Wing Chun, I stand in awe of his style. He is the number one authority in the original Wing Chun system. Which contains superior footwork and entry techniques -
The forward to Cheung's Bil Jee book by Dan Inosanto close friend and student of the late Bruce Lee. It is a privilage to write an introduction for Wing Chun Bil Jee, The Deadly Art of Thrusting Fingers by Master William Cheung. Who is considered the number one fighter in the Wing Chun clan by the majority of its practitioners. My training in Wing Chun began in 1964 under the late Bruce Lee. During this training, Lee often told many stories about Cheung's prowess as a street fighter in
If two Wing Chun men use centreline theory and face each other centreline to centreline. Both charge in to attack who will have the advantage and why? The larger stronger opponent or the smaller weaker opponent? What in Wing Chun can give the smaller weaker opponent an advantage over the stronger larger opponent? Is there any sense to one of the practitioners moving off the line of force and counter attacking from another angle. Similar to bull fighting side step and attack at an angle?
It is not Cheung's comment that he taught Lee it is Dan Inosantos comment that Lee was handed over to Wong Shun Leung and Cheung. Better to take the opinion of Lee's close friend who has nothing to gain. Lee was interested in Wing Chun and got Cheung to introduce him. They trained together and later when Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school William continued to show him Wing Chun. Cheung started teaching and promoting traditional Wing Chun publicly after Yip Mans death in 1972.
I know very little about wing chin but in my experience with my Hung gar my style is very different than everyone else's and they talk mad shit but as long as its practical and it work in a fight does it really matter?
Where in the name of whats just has the temperance behind all the arts gone to?
Everyone these days wastes there energies trying to be right !
You should know on a deep level that making others wrong does not make you correct, just makes another point of view. Still is the mater of unrest ....Lao Tsu.
No fight no blame .... Lao Tsu.
Do many here good to study the roots of martial arts and adapt what works for what situation, long or short step, or no step, or run like ....
Where in the name of whats just has the temperance behind all the arts gone to?
Everyone these days wastes there energies trying to be right !
You should know on a deep level that making others wrong does not make you correct, just makes another point of view. Still is the mater of unrest ....Lao Tsu.
No fight no blame .... Lao Tsu.
Do many here good to study the roots of martial arts and adapt what works for what situation, long or short step, or no step, or run like ....
If there are no secrets then we all know everything there is to know and we dont have to learn from any Sifu at all. Yipee no Secrets. Or maybe some people do know more than others. Dam.... I hope thats not true.
It's pretty obvious most/all Yip Man lineages are similar in form but this is a joke. WSL taught Gary Lam, Koo Sang taught Alan Lamb, Simon Lau taught James Sinclair, Augustine Fong taught Randy Williams and Jose Grados, Leung Ting taught Emin Boztepe and Bernd Wagner, etc, etc. Secret WC, what a joke. That's why Emin kicked his ass! Here's the secret - there are no secrets!
Interesting you must include Bruce Lee and Robert Downey Jnr as gullible suckers both have taken instruction from Cheung. I bet Downey Jnr was surfing Utube and saw your posts and thought I wonder what the fuss is all about this William Cheung and Traditional Wing Chun, what is Nephorianal talking about? I am interested I will go and check it out and books some lessons with Cheung.
A.) When Lee was alive, Cheung wasn't claiming to be the "sole inheritor and 1 true master of 'Traditional Wing Chun'". He didn't start doing that until years later.
B.) Cheung didn't exactly "teach" Lee, despite what he says. Lee's primary hands-on instructor was Wong Shun Leung. Everyone knows that.
C.) Yes, RDJ is a gullible sucker. Rich famous actors are hardly immune to being gullible suckers. Look at how many of them are scientologists....
You worry about the story instead of looking at the art. All the story does is draw your attention to the art to make up your own mind. I have learnt the Traditional and Modified versions of Wing Chun and I know Cheung knows it because we have discussed the differences. How could Bruce Lee be aiming to be like Cheung as a fighter in Wing Chun if Cheung was no good?? How?? Lee placed himself 6th in Wing Chun. If Lee is accurate and Cheung is Lee's role model it puts Cheung higher up the ladder.
Your point was Cheung doesn't train any cage fighters. How would you know??? Got records of attendence to Cheungs organization?? The mention of Robert Downey Jnr was to state a piece of factual information about a student of Cheungs that is veryifyable in the media. If I was to mention a relevant judge of Cheungs skill that trained with Cheung and was a movie star it would be Bruce Lee. Nephronial writing Cheung MAYBE learnt half of Wing Chun is as good as you writing I don't know what he learnt
cheung steps "toe-heel" instead of heel-toe like a regular step while walking. this ensure a firm root while in motion. cheung also tends to use the outside step a lot, its harder to train around the dummy, but its safer and more stable than the traditional ip chun style with the inside footwork. its all good stuff, and i prefer this method because you are mostly fighting off the front leg.
"...cheung also tends to use the outside step a lot, its harder to train around the dummy"
Dude, take a look at any real Ip Man WC practitioner dummy set. The whole dummy form is all about getting to the outside. Cheung's method didn't invent that approach, & it's completely inaccurate to suggest that "Cheung's kung fu knows how to go to the outside, but other WC focuses on the inside!"
Cheung has beautiful movements. Who really gives a damn what he represents, he has a refined type of kung fu. If You look at any experienced martial artist from any "style" and their highest levels, they all focus on fighting off the front foot and using the back foot as a secondary, still powerful tool. Grabbing the root is far easier this way, being double weighted is dumb.
I do, because I give a damn about honesty and respect. Seriously, the guy has a few years of training, makes it MAYBE halfway through the WC curriculum, then makes up a bunch of stuff, & lies about secret training to cover up the fact that hes not qualified and now he sells books & seminars to gullible suckers. He's a con-man. Maybe rewarding the scummy behavior of con-men doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. Screw this clown.
@Nephronial point of you... in 25 years of practice my idea is that isn't a con-man and he said the truth... and that his wing chun is top one in YM's student.
@Nephronial where did you get the idea that he only made it halfway through the curriculum? you do realize he released books on the forms and techniques before anyone else, don't you? that he was one of the senior students who taught the classes for Yip Man, don't you? do you have any factual proof of anything you're saying? don't talk about "honesty" and "respect" while you put someone down without having anything factual to back up your claim.
Dude, look at the forms in his books & compare them to Ip Man's & ALL of Ip's other students. Cheung's forms are totally different. He thinks Biu Jee is literally about finger-strikes & pressure points (it's not) - he clearly never received proper training in BJ or the dummy, & made up a bunch of stuff, then made up a story about "secret training" to explain the differences. Also, he was only a student for 3 or 4 years & his classmates describe his training as "intermittent".
"Proof"-youve got it backwards. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Cheung claims Ip taught ALL his students wrong on purpose except for one him - a punky teenager. Thats insane. He says he started at age 10 which contradicts everything. He says he lived with Ip but NO ONE remembers that except Cheung. So the burden of proof is on HIM. When confronted with these weird claims, our default position should be to NOT believe him until HE proves it all DID happen.
Also, it's impossible to "prove" a negative. Logic doesn't work like that. You can't prove unicorns don't exist, but since there's no evidence for them, & the idea of the unicorn doesn't make any sense anyway, we can be pretty sure that they don't exist. Same thing with Cheung's insane stories - theres ZERO evidence or corroboration for his start date, his live-in status, & the idea that Ip Man would cheat ALL his students for over 20 years is bonkers. That's how we know he's lying.
@Nephronial Your spending too much time over an argument that wont change anything. For all that time you wasted you could of been training and improving your Wing Chun, because that's the importance of martial arts not arguing over lineages.
@Nephronial How about explaining exactly what the lies are? If you knew anything about the forms, you would know that there is no "made up bunch of stuff". Do yourself a favor and go train something before criticizing something you obviously know nothing about.
There's not quite enough room in these comment boxes to explain what his lies are in detail, so I'll give you the condensed version: Cheung says his "WC" is so very diff't from ALL of Ip Man's other students because Ip Man trained them all wrong on purpose - Cheung says Ip Man taught ALL of them a deliberately watered-down, less-effective crap-version of WC while favoring him & him alone with the "secret", "real", "traditional" WC. It's all bullshit. How is it you don't know this?
But don't take my word for it. Wong Shun Leung, Ip Ching, Ip Chun, Chu Shong Tin, Victor Kan, and many others issued and signed a formal statement refuting Cheung & his stupid fantasyland claims of "secret training". Maybe I "know nothing about" this stuff, but THEY dont. They were there, and they all say Cheung's a liar. Who you gonna believe...ALL of them, or just Cheung?
"Modified, traditional - it's all bullshit. That's just William making mischief. " -Hawkins Cheung.
@Nephronial Of course they did. He told the world he was the real grandmaster and they took it as an insult, not a lie. They tell the world it's a lie, but they won't in his presence. Ask them personally in front of Grandmaster Cheung, and I guarantee they will all buckle. That's right. I GUARANTEE IT
Yes, they did take it as an insult, because Cheung's story is, aside from patently ridiculous and inexcusably absurd, is insulting. Insulting to Cheung's ex-classmates, but also to the character of Ip Man.
In addition to being insulting, it's ALSO a lie. It's an insulting lie.
And ask them personally in front of Cheung, and they will repeat exactly what was in the VTAA statement. I DOUBLE GUARANTEE IT. (Notice how Cheung hasn't been nearly as loud since the Boztepe-incident)
@Nephronial If you think GM Cheung is lying, just go ask GM Ip Chun if GGM Ip Man learned a different form of WC from Leung Bik. Oh, that's right, GM Ip Chun put that fact into the movie, "The Legend Is Born".
@DiscipleofRah what is all this grandmaster crap? there is no grandmasters in the wing chun system, there never has been, there are no grades in traditional chinese martial arts, just practice, whoever claims to be the grandmaster is a bullshitter, and con man!
@singhakabuttar I suppose you are the alpha and omega? As if you're even qualified to say what is and what isn't, or who is or who isn't? Have you even ever done ANY RESEARCH into the subject? Or are you making it up as you go from what you have been told? I suppose the Chinese never made things secret. Oh yeah, be sure to tell all the other Grandmasters that they are not real, they are "bullshitter(s)", and "con men".
@DiscipleofRah the greatest martial artists in the world today do not address themselves as grandmasters, and yes i have done my research over the last 24 years, i am also qualified to say so, and i am ready to tell anyone who addresses themselves as a grandmaster that they are talking bullshit, and conning people from the world of real martial arts where there is no grade! you learn you train what youve learned, you learn some more train that, and so on, any more question butthead?
@singhakabuttar No need to call me names. Do you think your 25 years grants you the omnipotence to determine that those with 60+ years of mastering one art are not deserving of a Grand title? I suppose no one ever has or should use the word "Sifu" or "Sensei" when referring to their own Master? Or Si-Gung, for your masters master, ect? Your argument is moot and silly. Waste more of your time trying to make the point for all I care, but try to treat your seniors with more respect.
@DiscipleofRah if youre refering to mastery of wing chun, its impossible, wing chun is that refined that you can become good, even very good, but in ones lifetime, mastery would be inevitable, this doesnt mean you cant become a good fighter, mike tyson became world heavyweight boxing champ at the age of twenty, should he also be called a grand master? i do respect my seniors, i address my teachers as sensei, or sifu, where you get the idea that this no longer happens is bullshit, look around.
@singhakabuttar You really are an idiot. Stop pretending to know anything about martial arts. You're too stupid to even comprehend basic principles by the way you rationalize.
@Mick0722MX youtube make you feel brave does it son! try stepping into the real world sunshine, swear all you like, its only youtube keyboard warrior, enjoy your day cocksucker!!!!
@Mick0722MX lol! ok name the time and place! bring yo mama with you, might as well make it worth my while. your such a cock!!! making challenges on youtube!!! you know your not gonna turn up, just keep exercising your finngers on the keyboard bitch, your not even worth a wank! maybe your mama is tho, hey does she have nice feet! lol
@Mick0722MX your 41 years old, and you talk like youre a 12 year old wtf, what has your grandmaster taught you? to be a complete arse hole i guess, you need to climb back into the pussy you came out of, and stay there, before you get your grandmaster of youtube warrior arse kicked by a real practicing martial artist lke myself, you fuckng retarded bimbo!!!, i take it you dont have a woman, hence all the free time you get to make threats onn you tube, hop alalon grasshopper.
i am afraid, im afraid if you ever summon up the courage i might beat you to death! come on keyboard warrior lets have it name the time the place! then i can be your new grandmaster!
@Mick0722MX ok! you better turn up you SON OF A BITCH!!! im taking time out for this, and will you address me as your grandmaster after i kick your arse?
@Mick0722MX thats what i said! baltimore harbour, maryland! not shitiing it already are ya, ill be there, any more details you wanna passs over please do so, i will be there!!!! have no doubts about that, ill book the tickets toay, give me name of nearest airport, and ill catch a taxi from there, which day over the weekend, and what time, exact location. even if you dont turn up, i'll be there for a week as i have freinds out there!
@Mick0722MX bring your mother with you! might aswell make it worth my while, no point coming to ireland for 3 seconds(the time its gonna take for you to kiss my arse, after ive demolished you) then she can give me a blow job, kind of like a thank you for kicking this arsehole of a sons face in! :-)
@Mick0722MX i understand you have a foot fetish, why dont you go and suck william cheungs toes, after all he is your grandmaster! you fuckin arse licker, you probably dont even train, just like airing your dirty laundry on youtube, cause it makes you feel like a grandmaster!!! isnt that right tuff guy? mick the grandmaster of the youtube lioneage of wing chun!! what a absolute CUNT You really are.
The Botzzepe fight was a fiasco.To atend a semminar and atack somebody is not the way how a chalange is meet.He stayed and finnished the semminar , so the beating coul not been so bad...and it's good that he comented the loss in souch a way.Everybody looses from time to time doesent meen they are worthles. As for your facts on wich you base your opinion ... doesen't sound sufficient enough to be a judge.I respect your oppinion , but don't agree whit it.
satori111 1 week ago
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@selftrainedjedi about as funny as swimming and running into a monster floating turd! Regarding Cheung he brought it all on himself, had it not been Boztepe someone else would have beaten him up. Cheung offered the challenge to anyone, he clearly said it in print more than once. Cheung's Wing Chun is terrible, clearly useless for real street fight; worse it is very very different to what Yip Man taught (compare to videos of Yip Man). People are still in denial - Cheung students & Instructors.
CloudsBeyond 2 months ago
@CloudsBeyond
Nephronial 2 months ago
@CloudsBeyond
Nephronial 2 months ago
Wait,I seen this Bozetpe guy is he a mid 30 something who , what attacked a man prolly twice his age?! Does that equal a win? I would think ANY sifu would learn to respect elder sifu's.
selftrainedjedi 2 months ago
@selftrainedjedi (see my post below) again Cheung made the challenge in print! He openly claimed to be the best Wing Chun fighter and said if anyone thought differently they could challenge him anytime. He prob expected nobody would challenge him. Despite claiming to be best fighter & Grandmaster of secret traditional Wing Chun system taught only to him by Yip Man - he was beaten very easily & later made excuses to explain his easy defeat.
CloudsBeyond 2 months ago
@CloudsBeyond Well any way you look at it jumping a man more then twice your age and from behind is pathetic. I have no doubt that Bozetpe is a top notch fighter. I am just saying this had more the feel of a guy satisfying his ego by attacking a older sifu twice his age. I suppose if thats ok ( which it isnt) why doesen,t he go to hong kong and attack ip chun he could claim victory over an 80 year old. I am sure his reputation would be secure then lol.
selftrainedjedi 2 months ago
@selftrainedjedi he did not jump him from behind, he faced him at a distance, Cheung accepted the challenge and they fought. Cheung was 46, I think Boztepe was 28. Note : Cheung stated in print he was the best Wing Chun fighter and should anyone doubt it he would take them on anytime. Cheung issued the challenge in print, prob. thinking nobody would dare take him up on it. Cheung's Wing Chun is bloody awful & he was never a good fighter.
CloudsBeyond 2 months ago
@CloudsBeyond I am putting it in print right now. I am surprised William Chung said he was the best fighter because I am the greatest fighter of all time! If anyone wants to challenge me just remember I scream like a girl and it will hurt your ears! My facial bones will hurt your hands when they break! Your fists will be bruised and bloody. Also my cries for help while being beaten are at such a high pitch that the sonic waves will cause you organ damage!
selftrainedjedi 2 months ago
@selftrainedjedi about as funny as swimming and running into a monster floating turd! Regarding Cheung he brought it all on himself, had it not been Boztepe someone else would have beaten him up. Cheung offered the challenge to anyone, he clearly said it in print more than once. Cheung's Wing Chun is terrible, clearly useless for real street fight; worse it is very very different to what Yip Man taught (compare to videos of Yip Man). People are still in denial - Cheung students & Instructors.
CloudsBeyond 2 months ago
@CloudsBeyond There is a reason for not showing the entire video of the fight you kow.... enyway, what is it you would advise us , Cheung style instructors... I started learnng Leung Ting system , did some Samuel Kwok w.c, did allso muay thai, and kicboxing, allso some BJJ to improve ground. My experience is that Cheung style is most realistic street prooven style of wing chun. ( probably couse it is more dynamic and more footwork). What is your oppinion based on.Did you fight Cheung's people?
satori111 1 week ago
@satori111 Cheung lost badly to Boztepe, you can make all the excuses you want - did Cheung ask for a rematch anywhere in front of witnesses or the press? NO! As he knew he would get his ass kicked again. If he was only Grandmaster of the secret traditional Wing Chun system, how come he got beat so easily? After the fight Cheung said 'there was nothing I could do , he came at me so fast' in front of witnesses including a reporter. As for Cheung's style (see next post)...
CloudsBeyond 1 week ago
@satori111 (see previous post) Cheung's WC is terrible! I've been to seminars of his, did chi sao with him and students, also sparred one student. Much of what he teaches is very impractical & more importantly NOTHING like what Yip Man taught - easy to compare videos of them doing forms, movements etc. People need to WAKE UP Cheung got beaten so easily with Boztepe as his Wing Chun is not practical or effective & much of it is not from Ip Man but invented by Cheung!
CloudsBeyond 1 week ago
WTB slowmotion button :O
OverLoadiing 2 months ago
Cheung's Wing Chun is terrible, very impractical for real self defense. Clearly his students are in denial, why did Boztepe beat him so very easily??? = because his Wing Chun is PATHETIC! Why did he not rush for a rematch with him to restore face? = because he got exposed once as a joke and didn't want to take another beating. Cheung's WC is NOTHING like Yip Man's - go compare to videos of Yip, Cheung left HK knowing little & invented learnt rest himself. Wake up Cheung students/instructors!!
CloudsBeyond 2 months ago
@CloudsBeyond I watched the fight you mentioned, the one in germany. It seems that Mr. Cheung is being rediculed for not employing ground fighting techniques? If the workshop was a wing chung seminar, then why redicule him for sticking to the wing chun system? A challenge at a teaching forum has all the bad elements of a saturday night kung fu movie and none of the elements you would expect from a pair of sifu's. Challenging Mr. Chueng to a "bar room" type brawl just is bad form.
selftrainedjedi 2 months ago
@selftrainedjedi I would say " So you think your kung fu is better then mine!" but I am sure yours is much better then mine. I am in real life somewhat rude and crude but I would never attempt to shame annother sifu in the way you have. Please remember that you learn alot from mistakes and failure, if your willing to analyse your missteps. Remember its not blackbelt theater.
selftrainedjedi 2 months ago 2
@selftrainedjedi actually Cheung inmvited the challenge! He openly challenged any Wing Chun person, claiming he was the best fighter. Wing Chun traditional does include groundfighting! People like Randy Williams, Kernspecht, etc have added ground stuff too it but traditional Wing Chun does have ground fighting. Cheung was not ridiculed for not employing anything, he was ridiculed because he got beaten so very easily by a then novice.
CloudsBeyond 2 months ago
While I'm a bit skeptical about Cheung's story, many of the techniques and concepts themselves seem to work quite well. I train in Moy Yat lineage Wing Chun and I also have a friend who trains in Cheung's. We sometimes train together and learn from one another. I must say I like the use of the entry technique and the central line concepts. Don't get caught up in the politics. Just study movement and technique., If you open your mind, you'll find things you like and also things that are common.
joseg1425 3 months ago
U want to know the truth about Cheung? Read this..the whole thing. He claims his is authentic wing chun...but the Wing Chun association in HK which includes many Ip Man's students including his sons....claim not.
This is the website.
cheungswingchuntruth dot blogspot dot com/
Iraqendwar 3 months ago
He does it so fast
92271027 4 months ago
Thanks for sharing. Love it
ncigntujyang 4 months ago
Yip Chun and Yip Ching said this isn't authentic, why do you still insist it is?
hotboyme 5 months ago
Wing Chun is composed of Inside and outside fighting. Yin and Yang. The system is complete if you understand both and how to balance the two. Contolled positioning with the ability to utilize all hands (no long arm short arm technics)with the ability to destroy your opponent or simply defuse his attack. I personnally have seen enough variations from Viet Nam ,India, Malasia , and especially mainland China. to say there are many different levels of understanding in Wing Chun.
Daddyo94521 5 months ago
I dont know what all this "political bickering" is about, but if you "non-Cheungers" really think that William made up his own system, then instead of attacking his vids behind the "anonymity" of youtube why don't you actually try going into any one of his schools and compared what you've learned(whether it be Leung Ting, Wong Shong Leung, Ip Ching etc.) If you end up beating most students then by all means, bragging rights to you, but if not and you get put down then u should rethink yourselves
Metacool416 5 months ago
@MiniHulkMonster My man if you like willam cheungs WC method thats cool, as far as William being a good fighter I don't think I can dispute that. The problem people have with William is his suggestion that he lived in yip mans house and learned a secret wing chun system. I've travel to hong kong every year to train with yip c
Ching, ive been in YM apartment, its tiny. Both yip mans sons dispute cheungs claim. With a little research you'll Find holes in his story
shadjazz 6 months ago
BOTTOM LINE: Ip Man honored both of his Sifu's.
DiscipleofRah 6 months ago
train any style hard enough n youre gonna be tough..just look at mma fighters, hard hard men but the skill level? im sure he has tough students but how better would they be if they mastered real and complete wing chun passed down from masters rather than a style improvised and added to by just this one man
DanieleToscano 6 months ago
watching his form he has good strength but bad application. jumping kicks? silly. also in what is true section 5 his double attacks have no explosive power, just strikes. his hands come far from the arms in fak sau attacks. he knows yip man wing chun...in part but not the real deal. im sure its useful too but its not pure or true yip man wing chun.
DanieleToscano 6 months ago
this guy is a fake pussy
snappadandappa 6 months ago
Bruce Lee speak highly of Hawkin Cheung not William Cheung. No it doesn't matter which kind of Wing Chun you studied as long as you can kick the other guy's as$.
hotboyme 6 months ago
@hotboyme Show me one picture of Bruce and Hawkins Cheung.
DiscipleofRah 6 months ago
@hotboyme Yes he did speak highly of William Cheung. All you have to do is look for the video "Bruce Lee's first student Jesse Glover" and listen to what he has to say about it. If you think that's BS, then you'll just have to tell Glover that to his face.
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
With all the information available how can anyone believe this is real Wing Chun?
JoeyTheTooth 6 months ago
OMG why is this empty shell of a man ruining the muk yan jong form?!
Leitevitti 6 months ago
@Leitevitti
Because he's an egomaniacal con-man cut from the same cloth as Frank Dux & Ashida Kim.
Nephronial 6 months ago
@Nephronial Then why don't you put your money where your mouth is, smart ass? You think you're so knowledgeable? You think you're such an expert? I'll tell you what, go to New jersey and pick a fight with Keith Mazza. After he rearranges your face, you can, with pride, tell him how he's been misled, okay?
Mick0722MX 6 months ago
Believe the version of history or no, fact remains Grand Master William Cheung is a powerful and talented martial artist. You, we, anybody all can learnlots. I've done lessons in person and locked arms in chi sao with him. His energy is awesome. Leave empty ideology and rhetoric at the behind when you walk in the door.
r0dneydickson 7 months ago
and he doesnt allow his students to put any of the masters down he teaches us to respect you guys, and that we can learn things from other Wing Chun forms, which allows us to understand our form of Wing Chun better.
So basically guys just train your Wing Chun we'll train ours and keep your bad thoughts to your selves. Other martial artists laugh at us, they think were a joke because we bicker over such stupid small stuff. We should show them that we have a strong martial art also.
MrSinantra 7 months ago 6
@MrSinantra i agree with you mr sinatra, theses debates are pointles!!!
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar thanks man thanks alot, now if one William Cheung student says that then im sure one of each of the wing chun can say it and we can work together and evolve wing chun as a large brethern of members of the Wing Chun clan. The way i see it we all have a piece of Ip Man's Wing Chun, so in a way all the masters are correct because he taught them differently according to each persons advantages and disadvantages and so on. So we are brethern who do the same thing.
MrSinantra 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar We just do it a little different from each other doesnt mean its wrong, what works for one could work for another we should work together and take all the usefull parts of each and make it one strong form of wing chun or if not that, then at least band together as wing chun martial artists who take this art as a way of life and learn to look past our small differences and train together and learn together. Thats my dream for my school to have different forms of Wing Chun.
MrSinantra 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar all learning together as one brethern regardless of what linage and teaching each other pieces its a dream but one day it will be reality. Thank you for seeing things like i do.
MrSinantra 5 months ago
@MrSinantra where do you teach mr sinatra, the way you have outlined is the only way forward for any martial art, to learn from one another and improve, by researching into different ideas, applications, we must not be afraid of progress.
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar im in the process of mastering it, i dont teach many, i only teach those i can see trully respect and love Wing Chun and its knowledge. but great to see that our generation will move it forward
MrSinantra 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar im going to call my Wing Chun school the Wing Chun Brotherhood. Where all can train together and if good enough they can teach their extra knowledge and do seminars with all wing chun styles
MrSinantra 5 months ago
@MrSinantra thata a great idea, ant particular area?
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar i would start in my area first and search for other good wing tsun and so on masters so we can work and teach all Wing Chun that Ip Mans dream was to preserve all Wing Chun regardless of the different ones there are and as a brethern proove our style is a super effective art in the street not in a ring with rules and saftey no disrespect to the many great fighters in the ring easy to talk but to fight in a ring is different. But thats my dream.
MrSinantra 5 months ago
You guys are pathetic man, if you dont like Grandmaster Cheung then dont watch his video's. Who teaches you guys to act like this, because if your masters really teach like that like i've heard, then they must be very jealous or something. Its silly if you dont like him just dont watch the video's but remember regardless of which Wing Chun Kuen, there is something to be learned from all of them. Im a personal friend and student of William Cheung.
MrSinantra 7 months ago
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William Cheung, 可以收工
panda2265 7 months ago
William Cheung 可以收工
panda2265 7 months ago
@ClassicalWCMaster cont'd A real WCer can get from 1 side of the dummy to the other with a shift & maybe 1 tiny step, while keeping a solid stance. It takes him 4-5 steps & half the time his feet are right next to each other. Sloppy. Bad.
ClassicalWCMaster 8 months ago
For all the talk u Cheung-fans give to "traditional wc's" supposed "superior" mobility & 50/50 wt. Distribution,etc....heres what I see: A guy who doesnt know how to shift on his balance-base. He takes too many stepa & uses too much energy.
ClassicalWCMaster 8 months ago
...next time he should try it slow with a fixed dummy. Observing his `stance´ or `steps´ im tempt to state: William Cheung must have had whether balls of steel or a lot of meek and weak adversaries. Nowadays is could be a higher level than the most newborn grandmasters all around - but like most asians - he never liked to be touched by a olympic-wrestler or been challenges by other wingchun-masters. Cheung always wanted to sparr in solid boredom...
11Kralle 8 months ago
@ekakala While I ask "Master Ian" his opinion, you ask ANY of Ip Man's surviving students or relatives if he would have trained all his students wrong on purpose except for one arrogant teenage kid.
Nephronial 8 months ago
@Nephronial I'm not saying that GM Ip Man taught his students wrong on purpose but HE trained and treated each student differently individually according to Wong Sheung Leung. Do you even recognize the difference between the WC Ip Man taught in mainland China and the version he taught his Hong Kong students? Well my sifu is an expert at both Traditional and modified WC and he knows that traditional WC has some advantages over modified. May be it's because you know nothing about traditional WC.
ekakala 8 months ago
@ekakala
Thats what Cheung IS saying. He says Ip deliberately trained ALL his other students wrong on purpose except for him, because he was the best, he was Ip's favorite, & only he was worthy. He says Ip made him take a secret vow to not reveal "Traditional WC" until after Ip died. It's bonkers. This story is clearly just as bonkers as Ashida Kim's stories of secret ninja training or Frank Dux's "kumite" b.s.. Wong Shun Leung, Chu Shong Tin, Hawkins Cheung & many others ALL say he's lying.
Nephronial 8 months ago
Well if William cheung is a fraud, then why has his wing chun worked for me in the streets? I'm talking about real fights here. I wonder if any of you internet warriors have been in one yet. If he's fraud why did the late Bruce Lee speak highly of him? Can some please tell me why the mainland China Ip Man students apply their WC differently from his Hong Kong students. Lastly, ask Master Ian Protheroe, who has learned WC from both William and Tsui Sheng Tin what he thinks of Traditional WC.
ekakala 9 months ago
@ekakala
"why has 'it' worked for me in the streets?"
Here's why: Cheung did learn the BASICS of WC, there's no question about that. He definitely learned all of Siu Lim Tao, & he probably learned a little bit of Chum Kiu & perhaps a little bit of the wooden dummy set. And he got hands-on training from Wong Shun Leung for ~3 years. And THAT is the stuff that works. Any degree of effectivness in Cheung's system is attributable to the real WC basics he teaches but NOT his made-up fantasy crap.
Nephronial 9 months ago
@Nephronial I know and learn from teachers that have studied various lineages of Wing Chun, and common knowledge among all of Yip Man's students was that William Cheung was the best. There are 4 sifus from the NY area I know of who studied with Duncan Leung, and Duncan always told them that Cheung was the best. I can't personally verify Cheung's story of his training, but his methods are clearly superior, AND he always taught his methods in contrast to the modified, so he clearly knew both...
venom769 8 months ago
@venom769
A. No, that's not "common knowledge". What IS common knowledge amongst ALL if Ip Man's other students is that Cheung's a liar. Don't take my word for it.
Read the famous VTAA letter.
Here's the common knowledge:
"Modified, traditional - it's all bullshit. That's just William making mischief"
-Hawkins Cheung
B. "Clearly superior" - to you, maybe. It wasn't very superior during the Boztepe fight.
Nephronial 8 months ago
@Nephronial Cheung knew and could demonstrate from very early on every form and every application, both versions of modified and traditional. this is all documented in books and video clips. Wong Shun Leung wrote an article in which he stated Bruce Lee could never get past wondering if he'd ever be good enough to beat Cheung. even WSL said he felt Bruce had more potential than himself, but was unsure if Bruce could beat Cheung. people hate on Cheung because he pissed a lot of people off.
venom769 8 months ago
@venom769
I've read that article, and that's not exactly what it said.
People hate on Cheung because he pissed a lot of people off because he lies, & those lies malign the character of Ip Man, insult Ip's other students, insult the skills of all the rest of us, and it's despicable to lie to your own trusting (and paying!) students about what you're teaching them.
THAT's why people hate on him. And he deserves it.
Nephronial 8 months ago
People that don't know traditional Wing Chun dont know advanced footwook. The majority of Hong Kong Wing Chun dont realize that. The ability to fight on your opponents blind side alond with many inside angles is more advanced and just makes sense. The ability to move but still maintain Lin Sil Di Da (the ability to attack and defend with no long arm short arm) is more advanced way of thinking and also creates less time loss. Sorry but traditional Wing Chun makes more sense and is more complete.
Daddyo94521 9 months ago
@Daddyo94521
People who don't know Real WC don't know what Real WC footwork even is. If you think "fighting on the opponent's blindside" isn't found in Real Wing Chun, watch ANY WCer doing the dummy set. It's all about going to the outside. Watch Jose Grados. Watch ANYONE.
Sorry but the stuff they tell you about Real Wing Chun in Cheung's schools isn't true. We know all about the outside gate ("blindside"), we know all about 50/50 weight distribution, etc. etc.
You're being lied to.
TwoGunGunnar 8 months ago
Con man or not, I have used his wing chun against people on the streets, I have sparred with skilled muay thai practitioners with it and its all turned out well for me. I like his style due to the increased mobility, i don't like to be in that unbalanced stance. Others may have a different opinion, I respect that opinion. Do what works best for you, forget all that lineage drama that some wish to take part in. All it does is make a joke out of the martial art itself.
urfaceismessed 9 months ago
@urfaceismessed
If Cheung's WC is effective at all, it's a testament to the real WC basics he learned from Ip Man, Wong Shun Leung, & Chu Shong Tin. I'll clue you in on a little secret - if you actually make it all the way through the entire WC curriculum then the footwork opens up. Only in the BEGINNING are you told to keep all the weight on the back leg. If Cheungs telling people his system has "increased mobility" its one more giveaway that he dropped out before learning all of WC.
Nephronial 9 months ago
@Nephronial As simple as I can put it...
Who gives a shit. I guess I like Cheung's version cause i can use it more effectively quicker. Your missing the point. Who cares if he lied, its a great a style of Wing Chun and if you don't like it then don't practice it. As simple as that. It personally fits me best and for that I respect the man for his modifications. Us Wing Chunners spend too much time arguing over lineages its unbelievable. It just gives a bad name to the art itself.
urfaceismessed 8 months ago
@urfaceismessed
Thank you for putting things so simply.
Heres some simplicity for you:
1. Anyone who cares about honesty & respect cares if he lied.
2. It might be a great style, but it's neither "Traditional" nor "Wing Chun". If this is "Wing Chun", than so is Jeet Kune Do.
3. If someone was teaching JKD & selling it as "Classical Wing Chun", & you pointed out that it's neither "classical" nor "Wing Chun", is that "arguing over lineages"? (the answer is, "no")
Nephronial 8 months ago
in regard to people who said you are locked into chi sao and that is it. once you get to chi sao, you understand why you are locked into chi sao. everything you've practiced is applied in chi sao. if you are unsuccessful in chi sao, then you go back and practice what you need to. wing chun is a style similar to taijiquan. there is no end to learning the style.
once you've begun to develop the gong, you will understand this.
zrvs 9 months ago
Why is it that only he 'knows' the so-called traditional wing chun? there are so many others that train under Ip Man.
TheTanglingTreats 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Are you Chinese TwoGunGunner? if not Yip Man would not have taught you. Wing Chun would be a SECRET that you would not be allowed to know back in the 1950's.
If Yip Man can chose to keep a secret from all races except the Chinese. It sets a precident that he is very particular with who he shares his art. There is no mystery about that.
TheWbmsmaa 9 months ago
Wiiliam cheung is a fraud google cheungswingchuntruth
shadjazz 9 months ago
There's my grandmaster and u terds who think hees a liar are fattys who know nothing bout martial art
xSkillsxOFxNinja 10 months ago
lol why does everyone always bash William? Weather you like it or not, he is one of the only people who knows traditional wing Chun. Ive met this man and ive studied under him for years now... C'mon people... what are you denying? This man has been doing wing Chun for 40+ years and you say hes a con man. Lol. If you are so upset he knows traditional wing chun I would be too if I knew shitty modified wing chun.
MiniHulkMonster 10 months ago
@MiniHulkMonster
"why does everyone always bash William?"
I will tell you.
Because he MADE UP "Traditional WC" & lies about it.
There's 0 evidence for any part of his dumb story. There's 0 evidence he lived with Ip Man, 0 evidence he started training when he says he did (age 10), & the idea that Ip Man trained ALL of his other students wrong on purpose for 20+ years is indefensibly ludicrous. If you believe it then you no doubt believe Ashida Kim's a real ninja. The whole story is stupid.
TwoGunGunnar 10 months ago
@MiniHulkMonster Good! I'm not interested if GM Cheung's learnt from YM his wing chun or from other way... He is best fighter in HK ever and his wing chun is the best from YM...
robyhh 9 months ago
@MiniHulkMonster My man shitty modified WC makes you sound ignorant. If you like willam cheungs WC method thats cool, as far as William being a good fighter I don't think I can dispute that. The problem people have with William is his suggestion that he lived in yip mans house and learned a secret wing chun system. I've travel to hong kong every year to train with Yip Ching, ive been in YM apartment, its tiny no way there would have been room for Cheung.
shadjazz 6 months ago
35 yrs old grand master :O
Proleetness 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Are you Chinese TwoGunGunner? if not Yip Man would not have taught you. Wing Chun would be a SECRET that you would not be allowed to know back in the 1950's.
If Yip Man can chose to keep a secret from all races except the Chinese. It sets a precident that he is very particular with who he shares his art. There is no mystery about that.
cruse9 11 months ago
Sorry to say this but most of the non-william cheung schools are strictly locked into chi sao and thats where their training ends. I am not saying that there are no good instructors but im talking about the majority
markomak1 1 year ago
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The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
cruse9 1 year ago
Dan Inosanto refering to a conversation with Lee "When he spoke of Bill Cheung he spoke with respect. It was Bill Cheung his senior in the Wing Chun system who helped train him to win the Hong Kong Championships in 1957." Without Bruce Lee it is doubtful if anyone would know about Wing Chun and without William Cheung Bruce would not have had his introduction to Wing Chun. How can you condem somebody from a previous generation who's history gauranteed the knowledge you now posess.
cruse9 1 year ago 5
@cruse9 people can condemn William Cheung for lying about his training. He didn't live with Yip Man
shadjazz 9 months ago
@shadjazz how do you know this? victor kan, one of yip mans students said that in hong kong, william cheung was one of the best fighters, and he would rather william cheung had his back covered than anyone else, so thats gotta say something about the mans ability as a fighter and wing chun exponent.
singhakabuttar 6 months ago
@singhakabuttar I travel to Hong Kong annually, I ve been in yip mans home, there is no way Cheung lived there, Yip Mans home is microscopic. Keep in mind Cheung is not the only student to claim he lived with Yip Man. As far Cheung being a great fighter, I wouldn't dispute that, Bruce Lee was a great fighter with limited WC training as well.
shadjazz 6 months ago
@shadjazz you are 100 percent right when you say many have claimed to live with yip man, from the videos ive seen of william chueng performing, although his forms dont seem spot on, his fighting ability definately seems to be applicable. so id have to agree with you on the points made!!!
singhakabuttar 6 months ago
No one is disputing that Bruce Lee learnt from Wong Shun Leung or Yip Man. Although he was introduced to both men by William Cheung. The only point I am disputing written on these pages by people who are ignorant of the facts is that William taught some Wing Chun to Bruce Lee. Saying William never actual taught Bruce Lee is historically incorrect. He introduced him to Yip Man worked out with him and taught him.
cruse9 1 year ago
Dan Inosanto..."After witnessing Master Cheung demonstrate and perform wing chun, I stand in awe of his style." Dan Inosanto if you didn't know also trained with a large number of other first generation Yip Man students not just Lee and Cheung.
cruse9 1 year ago
Two gun gunner you didn't read what is written below. Dan Inosantos statement at the front of William Cheungs Bil Jee book "Bill Cheung his senior in Wing Chun who helped train him to win the Hong Kong Championships'. And whom he learned some of the concepts that later led to the creation of his Jeet Kune Do." Can this be interpreted in any other way than Bruce Lee learning some Wing Chun from his senior William Cheung?? Who's opinion has more weight behind it Two gun gunners or Dan Inosantos?
cruse9 1 year ago
How bout this:
Can anyone provide ANY positive evidence for ANY of Cheungs claims?
Is there ANY photographic, documentary, or corroborative evidence that Cheung:
-started WC at age 10
-lived with Ip
-was regarded as Ip's "favorite", or as the best WC practitioner, or in any way held any sort of special status
-was taught "real" "traditional" WC by Ip while everyone else learned a deliberately less-effective "modified" version of WC
If any of this is true, there must be something.
Waiting...
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TwoGunGunnar The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
cruse9 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TwoGunGunnar The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
cruse9 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar
Still waiting...
TwoGunGunnar 11 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar
Still waiting. C'mon Cheung-fans....it's been a couple months. Still nothing?
There's a LOT of old pictures of Ip Man & his early students. The guy wasn't camera-shy. Surely one of you has a picture of a 10, 11, or 12 year-old Cheung doing WC.
Surely one of you has some kind of picture verifying that Cheung lived with Ip man. There's gotta be SOMETHING, right? Or maybe a letter from 1 WC guy to another referencing "that kid living with Ip".
Where is it?
Still waiting....
TwoGunGunnar 10 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar Go to Grandmaster Cheungs website and you will see the pictures you are looking for. There is one of Bruce Lee with William and another taken the same day with GGM Ip from about 1953.
DiscipleofRah 6 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar No one can conform Williams story but him. And William would have you believe that Yip Man was so secretive that he didn't teach the real WC to any of his students, even his sons. Which begs the question, if Yip Man didn't believe the traditional WC should be taught, why is William Cheung teaching any and everyone who willing to for online instructions.
shadjazz 9 months ago
If Inosanto says that Lee told him he had learnt some of the concepts that led to Jeet Kune Do from Cheung and Cheung says he taught Lee some Wing Chun. What does that actually mean TwoGunGunner??? Could that mean that Cheung did actually in reality teach Lee something. That if we are to believe Dan Inosanto and why not as he is one of the most respected martial artists there is. Then Cheung did teach Lee. You surely can't now suggest that Inosanto falls into your gullable sucker column.
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9
Cheung was Lee's senior in WC, & no doubt they worked out together, BUT everyone knows it was Wong Shun Leung who did most of Lee's hands-on training. Lee may have worked out with Cheung, but he LEARNED from Wong Shun Leung & Ip Man. Everyone knows that, now you do too.
In letters to WSL, Lee said, "Even though I am (technically) a student of Yip Man, in reality, I learned my Kung-fu from you." & "I thank you and Master for teaching me the ways of Wing Chun in Hong Kong."
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
that the modified version lacks. I consider Wing Chun Bil Jee, the deadly art of thrusting fingers a great contribution, not only to the Wing Chun style and its practitioners but to the martial arts world in general.
Signed Dan Inosanto.
cruse9 1 year ago
- Hong Kong. When he spoke of Bill Cheung he spoke with respect. It was Bill Cheung, his senior in the Wing Chun system who helped train him to win the Hong Kong championships in 1957 and from whom he learned some of the concepts that later led to the creation of his Jeet Kune Do. After witnessing Master Cheung demonstrate and perform Wing Chun, I stand in awe of his style. He is the number one authority in the original Wing Chun system. Which contains superior footwork and entry techniques -
cruse9 1 year ago
The forward to Cheung's Bil Jee book by Dan Inosanto close friend and student of the late Bruce Lee. It is a privilage to write an introduction for Wing Chun Bil Jee, The Deadly Art of Thrusting Fingers by Master William Cheung. Who is considered the number one fighter in the Wing Chun clan by the majority of its practitioners. My training in Wing Chun began in 1964 under the late Bruce Lee. During this training, Lee often told many stories about Cheung's prowess as a street fighter in
cruse9 1 year ago
If two Wing Chun men use centreline theory and face each other centreline to centreline. Both charge in to attack who will have the advantage and why? The larger stronger opponent or the smaller weaker opponent? What in Wing Chun can give the smaller weaker opponent an advantage over the stronger larger opponent? Is there any sense to one of the practitioners moving off the line of force and counter attacking from another angle. Similar to bull fighting side step and attack at an angle?
cruse9 1 year ago
It is not Cheung's comment that he taught Lee it is Dan Inosantos comment that Lee was handed over to Wong Shun Leung and Cheung. Better to take the opinion of Lee's close friend who has nothing to gain. Lee was interested in Wing Chun and got Cheung to introduce him. They trained together and later when Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school William continued to show him Wing Chun. Cheung started teaching and promoting traditional Wing Chun publicly after Yip Mans death in 1972.
cruse9 1 year ago
check out the video called Couwolf, its like my name but no P
coupwolf 1 year ago
Wing chun not wing chin sorry lol.
esshung 1 year ago
I know very little about wing chin but in my experience with my Hung gar my style is very different than everyone else's and they talk mad shit but as long as its practical and it work in a fight does it really matter?
esshung 1 year ago
Where in the name of whats just has the temperance behind all the arts gone to?
Everyone these days wastes there energies trying to be right !
You should know on a deep level that making others wrong does not make you correct, just makes another point of view. Still is the mater of unrest ....Lao Tsu.
No fight no blame .... Lao Tsu.
Do many here good to study the roots of martial arts and adapt what works for what situation, long or short step, or no step, or run like ....
Stop bitching.
Honeysucklebommie 1 year ago
@Honeysucklebommie
So you're saying that liars and con-men should be allowed to lie to people, & no one should say or do anything about it?
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
Where in the name of whats just has the temperance behind all the arts gone to?
Everyone these days wastes there energies trying to be right !
You should know on a deep level that making others wrong does not make you correct, just makes another point of view. Still is the mater of unrest ....Lao Tsu.
No fight no blame .... Lao Tsu.
Do many here good to study the roots of martial arts and adapt what works for what situation, long or short step, or no step, or run like ....
Stop bitching.
Honeysucklebommie 1 year ago
If there are no secrets then we all know everything there is to know and we dont have to learn from any Sifu at all. Yipee no Secrets. Or maybe some people do know more than others. Dam.... I hope thats not true.
cruse9 1 year ago
It's pretty obvious most/all Yip Man lineages are similar in form but this is a joke. WSL taught Gary Lam, Koo Sang taught Alan Lamb, Simon Lau taught James Sinclair, Augustine Fong taught Randy Williams and Jose Grados, Leung Ting taught Emin Boztepe and Bernd Wagner, etc, etc. Secret WC, what a joke. That's why Emin kicked his ass! Here's the secret - there are no secrets!
gosoku2 1 year ago
Wiliam Cheung is great!!!!!!
sladjanaN 1 year ago
Interesting you must include Bruce Lee and Robert Downey Jnr as gullible suckers both have taken instruction from Cheung. I bet Downey Jnr was surfing Utube and saw your posts and thought I wonder what the fuss is all about this William Cheung and Traditional Wing Chun, what is Nephorianal talking about? I am interested I will go and check it out and books some lessons with Cheung.
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9
A.) When Lee was alive, Cheung wasn't claiming to be the "sole inheritor and 1 true master of 'Traditional Wing Chun'". He didn't start doing that until years later.
B.) Cheung didn't exactly "teach" Lee, despite what he says. Lee's primary hands-on instructor was Wong Shun Leung. Everyone knows that.
C.) Yes, RDJ is a gullible sucker. Rich famous actors are hardly immune to being gullible suckers. Look at how many of them are scientologists....
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
You worry about the story instead of looking at the art. All the story does is draw your attention to the art to make up your own mind. I have learnt the Traditional and Modified versions of Wing Chun and I know Cheung knows it because we have discussed the differences. How could Bruce Lee be aiming to be like Cheung as a fighter in Wing Chun if Cheung was no good?? How?? Lee placed himself 6th in Wing Chun. If Lee is accurate and Cheung is Lee's role model it puts Cheung higher up the ladder.
cruse9 1 year ago
Your point was Cheung doesn't train any cage fighters. How would you know??? Got records of attendence to Cheungs organization?? The mention of Robert Downey Jnr was to state a piece of factual information about a student of Cheungs that is veryifyable in the media. If I was to mention a relevant judge of Cheungs skill that trained with Cheung and was a movie star it would be Bruce Lee. Nephronial writing Cheung MAYBE learnt half of Wing Chun is as good as you writing I don't know what he learnt
cruse9 1 year ago
cheung steps "toe-heel" instead of heel-toe like a regular step while walking. this ensure a firm root while in motion. cheung also tends to use the outside step a lot, its harder to train around the dummy, but its safer and more stable than the traditional ip chun style with the inside footwork. its all good stuff, and i prefer this method because you are mostly fighting off the front leg.
arahim1231987 1 year ago
@arahim1231987
And your balls are better covered ;-)
Honeysucklebommie 1 year ago
@arahim1231987
"...cheung also tends to use the outside step a lot, its harder to train around the dummy"
Dude, take a look at any real Ip Man WC practitioner dummy set. The whole dummy form is all about getting to the outside. Cheung's method didn't invent that approach, & it's completely inaccurate to suggest that "Cheung's kung fu knows how to go to the outside, but other WC focuses on the inside!"
Not true at all.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
yawn
YoungCrs 1 year ago
I like this video!
changyembo1 1 year ago
Cheung has beautiful movements. Who really gives a damn what he represents, he has a refined type of kung fu. If You look at any experienced martial artist from any "style" and their highest levels, they all focus on fighting off the front foot and using the back foot as a secondary, still powerful tool. Grabbing the root is far easier this way, being double weighted is dumb.
arahim1231987 1 year ago
@arahim1231987
"Who really gives a damn what he represents"
I do, because I give a damn about honesty and respect. Seriously, the guy has a few years of training, makes it MAYBE halfway through the WC curriculum, then makes up a bunch of stuff, & lies about secret training to cover up the fact that hes not qualified and now he sells books & seminars to gullible suckers. He's a con-man. Maybe rewarding the scummy behavior of con-men doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. Screw this clown.
Nephronial 1 year ago 7
@Nephronial point of you... in 25 years of practice my idea is that isn't a con-man and he said the truth... and that his wing chun is top one in YM's student.
robyhh 9 months ago
@Nephronial where did you get the idea that he only made it halfway through the curriculum? you do realize he released books on the forms and techniques before anyone else, don't you? that he was one of the senior students who taught the classes for Yip Man, don't you? do you have any factual proof of anything you're saying? don't talk about "honesty" and "respect" while you put someone down without having anything factual to back up your claim.
venom769 9 months ago
@venom769
Dude, look at the forms in his books & compare them to Ip Man's & ALL of Ip's other students. Cheung's forms are totally different. He thinks Biu Jee is literally about finger-strikes & pressure points (it's not) - he clearly never received proper training in BJ or the dummy, & made up a bunch of stuff, then made up a story about "secret training" to explain the differences. Also, he was only a student for 3 or 4 years & his classmates describe his training as "intermittent".
Nephronial 9 months ago
@venom769
"Proof"-youve got it backwards. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Cheung claims Ip taught ALL his students wrong on purpose except for one him - a punky teenager. Thats insane. He says he started at age 10 which contradicts everything. He says he lived with Ip but NO ONE remembers that except Cheung. So the burden of proof is on HIM. When confronted with these weird claims, our default position should be to NOT believe him until HE proves it all DID happen.
Nephronial 9 months ago
@venom769
Also, it's impossible to "prove" a negative. Logic doesn't work like that. You can't prove unicorns don't exist, but since there's no evidence for them, & the idea of the unicorn doesn't make any sense anyway, we can be pretty sure that they don't exist. Same thing with Cheung's insane stories - theres ZERO evidence or corroboration for his start date, his live-in status, & the idea that Ip Man would cheat ALL his students for over 20 years is bonkers. That's how we know he's lying.
Nephronial 9 months ago
@Nephronial Your spending too much time over an argument that wont change anything. For all that time you wasted you could of been training and improving your Wing Chun, because that's the importance of martial arts not arguing over lineages.
urfaceismessed 8 months ago
@Nephronial How about explaining exactly what the lies are? If you knew anything about the forms, you would know that there is no "made up bunch of stuff". Do yourself a favor and go train something before criticizing something you obviously know nothing about.
Mick0722MX 6 months ago
@Mick0722MX
There's not quite enough room in these comment boxes to explain what his lies are in detail, so I'll give you the condensed version: Cheung says his "WC" is so very diff't from ALL of Ip Man's other students because Ip Man trained them all wrong on purpose - Cheung says Ip Man taught ALL of them a deliberately watered-down, less-effective crap-version of WC while favoring him & him alone with the "secret", "real", "traditional" WC. It's all bullshit. How is it you don't know this?
Nephronial 6 months ago
@Mick0722MX
But don't take my word for it. Wong Shun Leung, Ip Ching, Ip Chun, Chu Shong Tin, Victor Kan, and many others issued and signed a formal statement refuting Cheung & his stupid fantasyland claims of "secret training". Maybe I "know nothing about" this stuff, but THEY dont. They were there, and they all say Cheung's a liar. Who you gonna believe...ALL of them, or just Cheung?
"Modified, traditional - it's all bullshit. That's just William making mischief. " -Hawkins Cheung.
Nephronial 6 months ago
@Nephronial Of course they did. He told the world he was the real grandmaster and they took it as an insult, not a lie. They tell the world it's a lie, but they won't in his presence. Ask them personally in front of Grandmaster Cheung, and I guarantee they will all buckle. That's right. I GUARANTEE IT
Mick0722MX 6 months ago
@Mick0722MX
Yes, they did take it as an insult, because Cheung's story is, aside from patently ridiculous and inexcusably absurd, is insulting. Insulting to Cheung's ex-classmates, but also to the character of Ip Man.
In addition to being insulting, it's ALSO a lie. It's an insulting lie.
And ask them personally in front of Cheung, and they will repeat exactly what was in the VTAA statement. I DOUBLE GUARANTEE IT. (Notice how Cheung hasn't been nearly as loud since the Boztepe-incident)
Nephronial 6 months ago
@Nephronial If you think GM Cheung is lying, just go ask GM Ip Chun if GGM Ip Man learned a different form of WC from Leung Bik. Oh, that's right, GM Ip Chun put that fact into the movie, "The Legend Is Born".
DiscipleofRah 6 months ago
@DiscipleofRah what is all this grandmaster crap? there is no grandmasters in the wing chun system, there never has been, there are no grades in traditional chinese martial arts, just practice, whoever claims to be the grandmaster is a bullshitter, and con man!
singhakabuttar 6 months ago
@singhakabuttar I suppose you are the alpha and omega? As if you're even qualified to say what is and what isn't, or who is or who isn't? Have you even ever done ANY RESEARCH into the subject? Or are you making it up as you go from what you have been told? I suppose the Chinese never made things secret. Oh yeah, be sure to tell all the other Grandmasters that they are not real, they are "bullshitter(s)", and "con men".
DiscipleofRah 6 months ago
@DiscipleofRah the greatest martial artists in the world today do not address themselves as grandmasters, and yes i have done my research over the last 24 years, i am also qualified to say so, and i am ready to tell anyone who addresses themselves as a grandmaster that they are talking bullshit, and conning people from the world of real martial arts where there is no grade! you learn you train what youve learned, you learn some more train that, and so on, any more question butthead?
singhakabuttar 6 months ago
@singhakabuttar No need to call me names. Do you think your 25 years grants you the omnipotence to determine that those with 60+ years of mastering one art are not deserving of a Grand title? I suppose no one ever has or should use the word "Sifu" or "Sensei" when referring to their own Master? Or Si-Gung, for your masters master, ect? Your argument is moot and silly. Waste more of your time trying to make the point for all I care, but try to treat your seniors with more respect.
DiscipleofRah 6 months ago
@DiscipleofRah if youre refering to mastery of wing chun, its impossible, wing chun is that refined that you can become good, even very good, but in ones lifetime, mastery would be inevitable, this doesnt mean you cant become a good fighter, mike tyson became world heavyweight boxing champ at the age of twenty, should he also be called a grand master? i do respect my seniors, i address my teachers as sensei, or sifu, where you get the idea that this no longer happens is bullshit, look around.
singhakabuttar 6 months ago
@singhakabuttar You've done your research for the past 24 years and never trained once. Every lineage of Wing Chun has a grandmaster.
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard! um not even gonna respond, except to say youre a youtube keyboard tiger!
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar You really are an idiot. Stop pretending to know anything about martial arts. You're too stupid to even comprehend basic principles by the way you rationalize.
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX youtube make you feel brave does it son! try stepping into the real world sunshine, swear all you like, its only youtube keyboard warrior, enjoy your day cocksucker!!!!
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar I'll meet you anytime, pussy boy, and I'll teach you a thing or two. Just name it, pussy boy.
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX lol! ok name the time and place! bring yo mama with you, might as well make it worth my while. your such a cock!!! making challenges on youtube!!! you know your not gonna turn up, just keep exercising your finngers on the keyboard bitch, your not even worth a wank! maybe your mama is tho, hey does she have nice feet! lol
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX your 41 years old, and you talk like youre a 12 year old wtf, what has your grandmaster taught you? to be a complete arse hole i guess, you need to climb back into the pussy you came out of, and stay there, before you get your grandmaster of youtube warrior arse kicked by a real practicing martial artist lke myself, you fuckng retarded bimbo!!!, i take it you dont have a woman, hence all the free time you get to make threats onn you tube, hop alalon grasshopper.
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar and yet the pussy still has not agreed to meet up with me. What's the matter, pussy boy? Are you afraid?
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX ive agreed!!! name the time the place!!!
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
i am afraid, im afraid if you ever summon up the courage i might beat you to death! come on keyboard warrior lets have it name the time the place! then i can be your new grandmaster!
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar Baltimore Harbor, next weekend
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX baltimore harbour in ireland?
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar No, Baltimore Harbor in Maryland
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX ok! you better turn up you SON OF A BITCH!!! im taking time out for this, and will you address me as your grandmaster after i kick your arse?
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar Turn up what? I'm not in Ireland, I'm in Maryland. So, are you going there or not?
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX thats what i said! baltimore harbour, maryland! not shitiing it already are ya, ill be there, any more details you wanna passs over please do so, i will be there!!!! have no doubts about that, ill book the tickets toay, give me name of nearest airport, and ill catch a taxi from there, which day over the weekend, and what time, exact location. even if you dont turn up, i'll be there for a week as i have freinds out there!
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX bring your mother with you! might aswell make it worth my while, no point coming to ireland for 3 seconds(the time its gonna take for you to kiss my arse, after ive demolished you) then she can give me a blow job, kind of like a thank you for kicking this arsehole of a sons face in! :-)
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@Mick0722MX i understand you have a foot fetish, why dont you go and suck william cheungs toes, after all he is your grandmaster! you fuckin arse licker, you probably dont even train, just like airing your dirty laundry on youtube, cause it makes you feel like a grandmaster!!! isnt that right tuff guy? mick the grandmaster of the youtube lioneage of wing chun!! what a absolute CUNT You really are.
singhakabuttar 5 months ago
@singhakabuttar Ad Hominem attacks? Typical of a pussy who talks tough online.
Mick0722MX 5 months ago
@Nephronial Since I studied both lineages of Wing Chun, I believe Cheung.
Mick0722MX 6 months ago