This is more of a uniform than dress blues. And probably more expensive as a lifesyle. (About Gandhi)"That old man has no idea how much it costs to keep him in poverty."
I'm assuming that Shane would be cool with that. But say the same thing to a person who is same-sex attracted and you're not be loving and inclusive. (?!) Now maybe behind all the frankly confusing and even goofy "60's hippy" talk Shane believes the same thing: that a person cannot righteously engage in any erotic activity with a member of the same sex - and should either live as a celibate or wait on God's healing relative to their sexual affinities. Great! Why not just say that?
The thing that controlled my life before I found freedom in Christ - polyamory (of a hetero variety) - was pointed out to me in a loving way by people that I'm guessing Shane would point down as "fundies" as the dreaded three letter world that begins with "s." I was challenged to repent and yield my life to God, to receive HIs grace and trust Him to live a celibate life until such time as God brought me a bride (and stuff had to be worked out in me before that could happen.)
There is danger here both in Shane's comments as well as in many of the posts of this video. It's not an either/or situation: call homosexuality what it is: one of many manifestations of human brokenness that is a serious sin if acted upon and be labeled a fundamentalist and a homophobe -- or be so concerned about being loving and inclusive that you send a confusing message where you make homosexuality sound like it may be OK if its just handled right. Why not just sound a clear trumpet?
@joseaod15 Well, GOD created weed, and as it turns out, it is one of the most versatile, holistic herbs found in nature. So before you assume you know GOD's opinion on weed, do some research, buddy. And as far as Shane Claiborne smoking weed? He is accountable to his peers nearly 24/7 as he lives in a community home with other ordinary radicals. So you can ask any of them if he smokes weed. Just because he has chosen not to take part in consumerist culture does not mean he must be a stoner. :)
@sarahfarrar1 As one of my favorite authors and someone whom I know a lot about, I can tell you what his opinion on abortion most likely is. He would probably say that life is precious, and abortion must be stopped. But he would want to stop abortion not by legislation, but by Loving and befriending every lonely, scared single mother who is considering aborting, and by exposing the immense lies and manipulation behind the abortion industry.
I completely agree with everything he says. This man has obviously read the Bible and has known the Lord. May God show all who have watched or commented on this the truth and bless Shane!
God sends sinners to hell, not sin itself. show me where it says God Loves the sinner not the sin in the bible. This is a lie. Gods love for us is a RESULT of our Faith in the definitive person, life, works, sufferings, death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. He doesn't love sinners, but on the contrary hates evil doers. Only those who have believed INTO Jesus Christ, are loved by God because of their Faith and Obedience to Jesus Christ His Son.
@denvernfl Romans 5:8. Why die for sinners if you don't love them? Why are we called to reach out and love the unloved if God doesn't love them? If God only loves those who are Christians (and how do we define that?) did He love anyone before Christ was resurrected and the Holy Spirit came down upon us? Just some questions from a messed-up-girl-in-the-process-of-becoming-more-and-more-like-Him Lover of Christ. "All glory to Him, both now and forever! Amen."
@denvernfl If G-d didn't love sinners, he wouldn't love anyone. We are all sinners, but he sees us as more than conquerers by his grace. If we accept his love, we are saved in the sense that our lives begin to transform because we begin to trust the Love of G-d as life. :) We are saved from destroying ourselves, G-d's "wrath". G-d offers His unconditional love to all of us. We who believe in his love should be embodying that, and showing love to others as well because we are made in his image.
you people do realize that true homosexuality is biological. Its genetically proven. Although there are some people out there who do choose to be gay based on bad experiences or because of self image.
@civilizationsdead That is just not true. It has been sought after, but there is still no such thing as a "gay gene". Homosexuality is still considered psychological. Even if they did one day prove it was biological, it would still not take away God's love for those engulfed in that lifestyle as our fates are not determined by biology. He paid the penalty to bring us into a right relationship with Himself. He has the power to change and I have seen it in a number of my homo friends.
@openyourbible he wasn't speaking of that part of the issue. Regardless of whether or not homosexuality is a sin homosexual individuals should be able to find the live and shelter they need in the church. We are supposed to show them Jesus and His heart for them and so often we don't.
Guys don't think of religion like going to church, worshiping and just being there actually think of what God did for you and try to incounter what God is really like!!! those of you who think going to church is stupid, it's not! You would be going straight to hell if God didn't die for you, he got what YOU deserve when he suffered and died on the roman cross... God loves you and wants to encounter you... And if you feel like going to church doesn't work for you go to Jesus Culture!!! God loves!
Jn 8:15 - "You judge by human standards, I pass judgement on no-one." - Jesus, talking to the Pharisees
If Jesus says he doesn't pass judgement then who are we to?
The crux of this video is when Shane says, "This is more complicated than anything I've thought." Like Jesus, Shane is not passing judgement but trying to accept and love all.
@SmartStr33t --You are proof-texting, and in this case you're actually incorrect. Jesus does judge: he calls Pharisees hypocrites, he forgives sin (a form of judgment), and he will be the one that says to people, "Depart from me. I never knew you." In John 7:24, Jesus tells Pharisees to "judge with right judgment." Paul even says that believers are to judge those inside the church (1 Cor. 5:12). In summary: we are to judge but with right judgment.
@propheticimpact ok, so Jesus condemns the Pharisees, usually for making relationship with God too difficult for the everyday folk (for judging them unworthy). I disagree that forgiving sins is "a form of judgement", at least not in a way that detracts from my initial point. Jesus will judge in the end, but for now, this is the day of the favour of the LORD. As for now, Jn12:47 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him."
While I quite appreciate what Shane is saying, the background music makes this a bit cheesy... Shane is soft and tender enough in himself, the music makes it feel like this is a compilation trying to make people canonize him as a saint before his death ;)
But Jesus told many to go and sin no more. Church is safe for homosexuals, but not safe for homosexuality. We need to repent of of that God abhors. Murder, anger, lust, coveting.... doesn't belong at church. Yet Murderers, adulterors, do belong.
I love you Shane, but softening the message about sin is very dangerous.
If homoslove is a sin, then I am created to sin while I build anything resembling a relationship, its logical outcome, which is membership in a community, and even the briefest of friendships. You hetero-frustrated xtians can have the earthly privilege you want at the expense of Queers everywhere, shucking and bullshitting with your hetero-lore, and I'll see you on judgement day when I get justice, while you can have "God's Love" and get tossed for refusing it your entire lives. SO sorry. NOT.
The problem is too many people assume that God hates homosexuals. He doesn't. Only sin is hated by God, it's in the Bible. Homosexuality should be treated like any other sin. If a man commits abortion, he is doing the same thing as one who is homosexual. The Bible clearly defines that sin is sin, there is nothing greater than the other. Accept Jesus as your savior and you will be accepted into God's family, that is all.
@historygooru1 That was deep-sin is sin. So if the gays come to your church and want to be a part of your church while remaining homosexuality which means exposing many including childeren to this sin? Ever wander why fundamentalists are passionate about what we are passionate about? As fundamentalidsm opposed evolution and modernists came on the scene(and never went away-just became emergent)-Harry Fosdick was for Eugenics and believed appeasing Hitler. Of course, abortion came from eugenics!
@historygooru1 - Scripture is useful where it is in accord with life and love and there are no flaws in the truth being represented. You have to be your own judge of truth and love when you read anything, even the Bible. No matter how divine a message and how pure the message of God, it ultimately comes down to a man dictating it, there is a portion of the writers hand in the message - without a doubt. God speaks through very deep inspiration - once put into words it takes on human traits
@historygooru1 another thing we must inform people is that God is infact angry. i agree with you 100% that God is love. but he is angry at the sinner. it's crucial to explain that since our cultural has such an awkward view of love.
@historygooru1 God hates ALL sexual acts that outside of marriage. Thus adultary and fornication are just as bad as homosexuality. But the problem is adultary and fornication have become an accepted practice in society including Christianity. If this is not so then Christians would be as vocal about adultary and fornication as they are about homosexuality.
Its a bit difficult to discern exactly what is his position on homosexuality because he speaks in a vague manner which itself, is not a Christian characteristic. Its correct for Christian ministries to accept homosexuals, just as they would any other sinners. After all, churches have never existed for the purpose of ministering to the perfect. But it seems that what he is saying is that his ministry is accepting of homosexuality. If so, then its ironic that he would speak of
I am glad to see that you believe that homosexuality is sinful. However, if I may w/o offense say: Christians should not just accept everyone as they are. After all, God does not. This is why He demands repentance: the very idea is, "I don't accept you as you are. Now change that I may accept you."
Now, this does not mean that Christians should be mean or nasty to any sinner, including but not limited to homosexuals.
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's" Matthew 7:5
we should really be worried about what God doesn't find right in ourselves before we call out others for their sins. i believe in bringing people to Christ regardless of what their sexuality is and letting their personal relationship with Jesus Christ work out whatever sin He finds in them. we don't know their hearts so it's not for us to judge their sins.
"selective fundamentalism" because being accepting of homosexuality is selecting particular scriptures while dismissing the scriptures regarding homosexuality. Those scriptures are not at all vague. They're straight forward, to the point & blunt. One scripture regarding homosexuality, contains the word "natural". That is precisely the crux of the matter. God created nature & nature's order. Within humanity there are only 2 sex organs... the penis & the vagina. They're perfectly functionally
compatible for copulation & reproduction can occur. Its a popular belief that homosexuality is innate from birth. But both homosexuality & heterosexuality are behaviors. If behaviors were determined by genetics, then there would be a gene for every imaginable behavior. There isn't even one behavior gene. Behavior is determined by genetics only indirectly, when dictated by the anatomical form. Thus, heterosexuality is the innate, human sexual behavior... its natural. Homosexuality is unnatural.
Saying these things is unpopular but denying the obvious truth & fooling ourselves does nobody any good... its a disservice to even homosexuals. It can only do harm & much harm it has done & continues to do. A huge part of Satanism is to do things precisely because they're contrary to nature's order. Satanists don't come from other planets. They're from the general population. Thus, most of them are heterosexuals & even married. But they ritualistically engage in homosexual sex.
@Chuichupachichi I'm pretty sure Shane thinks homosexuality is a sin. If you watched through this entire video just to say how outraged you are about him not screaming out how much homosexuality is wrong, I don't know how to respond.
Homosexuality is in fact, a Satanic thing. Shane Claiborne should chew on that one for a while. He doesn't come in a Dracula costume... but as an angel of light.
I am a fundamentalist but I am also a person of love. To reject the truth of the gospel in the "name of love" is demonic. Truth is fundemental and you cannot change that. At the same time we must speak the truth in love. The problem is that some do not want to hear truth so modern preachers drop the truth to accomidate their sin. Speak the truth in love - love the sinner but speak the truth. These men will be held accoutable for the blood of multitudes. If i love you I will tell you the truth!!
Shane should act to preserve his integrity; his sophism exposes him. He should admit the simple and plain truth: When I went to college, I got intimidated by my sociology professors, and I suppressed my God-given repulsion to homosexuality.
@purereligion127 He went to a college that espouses a Christian worldview... Did you have a God-given repulsion to fornication, adultery, lusting, any sex outside of marriage of any kind? What about lying? What about greed? Gluttony? Vanity? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...
1) Your questions make no sense. Yes, I (like you and everyone else) have a God-given repulsion to all sin. This function is sometimes called a conscience.
2) It is not a matter of who is sinning and who is not: it is an issue of calling sin, sin. For sure, the moment of gracious forgiveness experienced by the woman caught in the act of adultery, this more often than not could not occur in America. Why? Because such sins are no longer called sins. Thus, what's to forgive?
@purereligion127 "one of the reasons why civil discussion has broken down in our culture is b/c of the attitude exhibited..."
Yeah, it has NOTHING to do with theists always making unsupportable claims, outright falsehoods and lies...and when asked to SUPPORT their claims, they do what you've been doing...run like a little bitch.
"I (like you and everyone else) have a God-given repulsion to all sin."
That's FOUR now...make all the unsupportable claims you want, just stop LYING about it.
Also, if EVERYONE has a "God-given repulsion" to ALL sin, why are restaurants like Red Lobster doing so well? According to your holy book eating shellfish is a sin. (again, don't bother answering the last question - rhetorical)
@purereligion127 "the moment of gracious forgiveness...could not occur in America. Why? Because such sins are no longer called sins. Thus, what's to forgive?"
So if something is not (and according to your religion, never has been) a sin, it's okay to do and doesn't need forgiveness?
You DO realize this covers such "non sins" as rape, child molestation, beating a child, etc.?
So rape, molest, beat all you want...but don't touch that steak on a Friday, because THAT would piss God off.
@purereligion127 The real issue is that many people can't see their own sin as being repulsive to God. They look @ others & say "your sin is way worse than mine". People divide sins into "big" sin and "little" sin catagories. Pride is the real issue. How would U like for some1 to drag out all of your sins, put them on public display, ridicule & alienate U? Shane is saying that people can live w/out sex-- they can't live w/out love. See Jn 3:1-17 and Mt 7:1-27. What law is talked about here?
1) Some sin is worse than others--the act of stealing a piece of bubble gum is not as bad as the act of rape.
2) I agree that pride is a big issue facing many in America. It is precisely pride that motivates many to deny the sinfulness of sin instead of repenting of it. Good point.
3) Long ago, in a public setting, before many people about whom I care very much, I publicly confessed my sin and faith in Christ. Humiliating? Yes. Freeing? Yes. This should happen more.
1) Why is the act of stealing a piece of bubble gum not as bad as rape? Where does the Bible say that some sin is more evil than others?
2) Agreed.
3) Admitting sin is needed daily. Just because we are under grace does not mean that we are now without sin. (Romans 7:19) It means we recognize that God loves us despite our shortcommings. Romans 1-2 is about pride, we have to recognize our sin in this passage, too. Then let it motivate us to love others (1 Cor. 13:4-8).
To 1: The concept is found throughout the Scriptures, e.g. blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not forgivable. However, and more importantly, in the end, I do not need the Bible to know that rape is worse than stealing gum. In addition, I would argue that those who do are not in a place to read and understand the Sacred Text.
To 3: Sure, but you do make a distinction between turning from a life of sin (conversion) to leaving all particular sins behind (sanctification)?
same old "love the sinner hate the sin" crap I've heard all my life. How about just saying that the bible was written by fallible humans and was wrong about homosexuality?
@aristottlesdeathwish Actually, it is not the same old "Love the Sinner and Hate the Sin" crap. He is acknowledging that people are created that way.
Also, there is simply nothing in the Bible that refers to what we term "homosexuality." It just isn't there, and any serious student of the Bible has to acknowledge that.
@cm1165 He never once admits that God created them that, he just sidesteps the issue by saying he KNOWS people that think they were created that way. To me, that's is just as bad.
@cm1165 "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
Lev 18:22-23 "you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
please explain how this makes the bible gay friendly?
"neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
Lev 18:22-23 "you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
please explain how this makes the bible gay friendly?
@cage and @ sky.....why don't you guys just message each other privately and quit dominating the comments section...man....i scrolled down hoping to see some engaging conversations taking place and all i see is this crap.
What do you expect, it's YouTube. It's the only place those two jokers could vent such piss poor logic (though at least Sky was being polite, whereas cage's already sad argumentation was only magnified by his trollish screaming). Seriously, I haven't seen two people unleash so much sound and fury without intellectual backing like that since the Rottfeller/Thomas debates.
I prefer reality to belief. Last time I checked there is no evidence that what you call a "soul" exists. If you have any evidence feel free to give it in your response.
I don't undertsand athiests...it's as if you are some sort of religion, the thing you all speak against and 'hate'. I mean you guys always going on Christians videos trying to 'convert' us to your faithless and non-believing ways. And for Christ sake you guys don;t even believe you have a SOUL. If I were to choose any religion other than Christianity it would NOT be one that does not believe in theiselves yet chooses to patronize everyone that does. Your litterally trying to prove NOTHING.
@SkylarAlyxis "I mean you guys always going on Christians videos trying to 'convert' us to your faithless and non-believing ways."
I go on videos to challenge religious claims without evidence. In my opinion my "ways," are infinitely better than your own groveling-before-a-non-existant-Sky-fairy brand of shit-for-brains religious cowardice ways.
@CageFreeWaffle The ironic thing is...your shoving your beliefs down peoples throats. Isn't that the thing Athiests don't like about religion. Hey it's fine you don't believe. That's your choice man. But quit shoving your crap down our throats. Because while you can;t prove God exists, you still can't prove he doesn't. So there really is no debate. It's a debate pf opinions and beliefs which we all know, no one can win.
@SkylarAlyxis "The ironic thing is...your shoving your beliefs down peoples throats"
I've expressed an "opinion" not a "belief." My opinion is that people who make religious claims without evidence are full of shit, and I do enjoy shoving that opinion down the people's throats who make the claims without evidence, just as they shove their religious bullshit down everyone else's throats.
@CageFreeWaffle No one here is shoving anything down your throat sir. You came to this video by free will. Remeber that. And I hate people who tell me to live a certain way also. Let's try over in the middle east where many Islamic people who convert to Christianity are killed. Is that so justified? Or how about in China where if you convert to any religion bu Buddhism or Athiesm you are also killed? Is it right to crucify those who do not have the same opinion as you?
@CageFreeWaffle The people on these comments are simply talking about their beliefs. I don;t see anyone on here saying "everyone has to be Christian, anyone who isn't" because that sir is ignorant, narrow-minded, and quite frankly unrational. Logic, worldy knowledge, reading skills, etc. are what join 'smart' people together. Beliefs are what seperate us. Until people like you can learn that the whole world cannot conform to your beliefs, there will be no peace.
@SkylarAlyxis "Because while you can;t prove God exists, you still can't prove he doesn't."
FALLACY: PROVE A NEGATIVE
Prove your mother doesn't have a family of invisible mice who rule the universe from inside her vagina? You can't? Wow, then we're on equal ground. The mice are as likely in your mother's twat as not according to your scintillating logic.
@CageFreeWaffle I've heard that one before but it still proves nothing. The point is, you cannot call people with their beliefs 'idiots' when infact a great number are highly intellegent. Either way, your the ignorant one here for trying to shove what you think is fact down everyones throat. It is not fact that God does not exist.
@CageFreeWaffle So indeed your saying the great scientists like Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein who infact believed there was a God, their stuopid? Along with Galileo Galilei and Nicholas Copernicus? If you don't hate or speak against our 'fairytales' why do you come here shoving your beleifs down our throat?
@SkylarAlyxis "So indeed your saying the great scientists like Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein who infact believed there was a God, their stuopid?"
Einstein didn't believe in a religious "God" you blithering idiot. He used the word "God" to express his wonder at the areas of science still shrouded in mystery. As for Newton, he was probably an atheist who had to pretend to believe in God so he didn't get tied to a stick and burned by Chrit-roaches like you.
@CageFreeWaffle And your assuming these things about these people as if you know it for a fact? Prove it. And many people who believe in God also don't believe in religion. Such as myself. There's also agnostics, who believe there could be a God but do not conform to religion. 'Chrit-raoches' like me. There you go again. Sterotyping billions of Christians. I don't care about other's beleifs but I stick by mine.
@CageFreeWaffle See I'm not religious through. I am spiritual. I'm 'techinically' a Christian, but I don't go to church. So if the best thing you can use against people is stereotypes then goodluck. No one on either side can prove anything.
@CageFreeWaffle People's beliefs can't be caged into one system. So no, I don't consider myself any of the denominations. You can be a spiritual Christian and not be in a religion. Can you comprehend that?
@CageFreeWaffle Here's the thing. I have a close knit group of friends. All of us are intellegent and have deep conversations, are in honors classes together, and are generally polite and well mannered people. Half of us are Athiest and the other half Christian, and one is Jewish. We have our debates and such but we all have undertsnading that each of us has our own beliefs. And we all respect each other.
@SkylarAlyxis I'm not "debating" anything. I'm not asserting anything. I'm challenging your religious claims without evidence and I'm challenging your stupid, propagandistic assertion that atheism is a religion.
Religious claims without evidence versus an absence of theistic belief are NOT on equal footing in a "debate." To enjoy a strong position in a debate it is necessary to back up any claims you make, with evidence. Atheism isn't a claim, it's an absence of theistic belief.
@CageFreeWaffle I didn't say Atheism was a religion. I said that some of the people out there like you make it seem like your trying to 'save' everyone or soemthing of the sort by calling our beliefs "stupid". Like I said, I am a Christian of no religion; I do not go to church nor do I belong to any denomination. And I don't believe this debate was ever about proving that either side is correct because we both know opinions and beliefs cannot ever be proven.
@SkylarAlyxis And by the way I think I've stated this in so many words so many times but it's called 'freedom of speech' and people can go on what happens to be a Christian video and talk about their beliefs or opinions. If it bothers you so, perhaps you should find a better planet to reside upon because 6 billion people cannot convert to your beliefs sir. Challenging? There's nothing to challenge, they are opinions we believe which cannot be proven. Just as yours can't?
The person making the claim has the burden of proof to fulfill. Atheism isn't a claim. It's a state of being without theistic belief.
I'm here to challenge dopey religious claims without evidence. If what I do bothers you so much, why don't you go ask your mommy for your afternoon snack and take a mister-cranky-pants nap until you feel better.
@CageFreeWaffle Ohh your cute (: There's nothing to challenge because all you have for debate is "there is no proof". Existence of God cannot be a debate. There's no proof on either side. So what are you challenging? No there is no proof at all. Duh?
Golly shit-for-brains is repeating the crap from 10 comments ago. Fairytale belief in the perverted "God" of the disgusting Bible doesn't get equal footing with an empirical, evidence-based worldview in a debate. Too bad, so sad.
"So what are you challenging?"
The assertion that a "God" exists which comes without evidence. But here's the important question. What are YOU challenging? (Answer: Nothing, I'm not making a claim.)
Atheism is an absence of theistic belief. It can't be "correct" or "incorrect" any more than a lack of belief in your mother having a family of magical mice who rule the universe from inside her twat would be "correct" or "incorrect." It's just a factual state of being for some people, not an assertion of anything.
@CageFreeWaffle Christian meaning I believe in Christ. That makes me spititual. Religious means engaging in RELIGIOUS activities such as church and denominations. If I were a BAPTIST or MEDTHODIST of no religion that would indeed be an oxymoron.
@SkylarAlyxis "Christian meaning I believe in Christ. That makes me spititual. Religious means engaging in RELIGIOUS activities such as church and denominations."
O.K. I'll tell the 7 billion people of the world who you keep mentioning, that shit-for-brains has redefined belief in Jesus. Believing in the perverted, disgusting parasitical Bronze Ages fairytales of Jesus is now "spiritual" NOT RELIGIOUS.
@CageFreeWaffle I wasn't speaking for 7 billion people.I was speaking for MYSELF. That's what you obviously don;t get. People have the right to their own opinion sir (: If you can't handle that maybe you'd like to find another planet to inhabit because this world is filled with different views. Also note that I'm not claiming any SET beliefs. I'm being very open minded here.
@CageFreeWaffle I'm not representing anyone but myself, I'm saying that all of them are not 'stupid' because they have a certain belief you don't agree on. Which you obviously can't accept I see. Anyone who does not think exactly like you is stupid aye? I like how you keep only taking one sentence and replying to that since you have no reply to the others also
@SkylarAlyxis "all of them are not 'stupid' because they have a certain belief you don't agree on. Which you obviously can't accept I see. Anyone who does not think exactly like you is stupid?"
I "accept" that people make claims without evidence; that's why I participate in the public marketplace of ideas and challenge them. Holding them to a higher standard shows them that crappy religions like yours are houses of cards which can be blown over rather easily.
@SkylarAlyxis "I like how you keep only taking one sentence and replying to that since you have no reply to the others also"
Golly, forgive me for not sifting through your vomit more carefully and meticulously addressing your repetitive twaddle, straw man attacks and hysterical rejoinders.
@CageFreeWaffle And instantly there you go again. I am in no way using 'propaganda'. As for those who do, ignore it? This is the world sir, you have to get use to other people's shit. Your kind of sharing it with 6 billion other people or so.
But tell me how different it is from all the Atheists shoving their propaganda down our throats? Not much of a difference at all. That's why SMART people don;t shove their beliefs down other's throats.
@CageFreeWaffle No. Agnostic has no claim. They believe there could be a God but there is no proof, they don't tell people believing in God is 'stupid' since they believe it's a possibility. Athiests are completely dead set on believing there is no God. Which is a claim that God does not exist. An opinion I respect just as any other, but I don't want it shoved down my throat (:
@SkylarAlyxis "They believe there could be a God but there is no proof"
That isn't an accurate defintion of agnostic. That's your crappy editorialized, bastardized definition. Agnostic means, without knowledge, period. I'm agnostic as to whether you have a donkey dick up your ass, for example.
@SkylarAlyxis "they don't tell people believing in God is 'stupid' since they believe it's a possibility."
FALLACY: STRAW MAN
"Athiests are completely dead set on believing there is no God."
Every baby is born an atheist. You think babies are "dead set on believing there is no God?" ROFL You're a complete idiot and you don't have any idea what atheism is. (P.S. Look up "anti-theism" after your dick grows back after this drubbing I'm giving you.)
@CageFreeWaffle Dude seriously how old are you? You are probably the most arrogant person I've come across yet. After your dick grows back? Donkey stick up my ass? What are you like 6? You have the arrogant know it all energy of one. PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, just because billions of people don't agree with you does not make them 'stupid'. For you to think so shows you're narrow minded.
@SkylarAlyxis "PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, just because billions of people don't agree with you does not make them 'stupid'"
It doesn't make them smart by default either. Example: If 50 trillion Christians say that: 1 + 1 = 9 and one retarded monkey says that: 1 + 1 = 2 who would be right? You're committing the ad populum fallacy by invoking gigantic numbers of delusional wack-a-doodles as some sort of boost for your "argument" if you can call it that.
Theres like over 30,000 sects of christianity all claiming to be the one and only "true" version. Go ahead and pick and choose, thats cool. Its all just a perversion of paganism anyway.
I support much of what Shane says... but I believe this particular video shows he is misguided. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. In my heart I believe abortion is wrong. Its not our right to take away life. Its not our right to cut God's plans for a life short. I believe the Bible supports this as well. We do love sinners... but we do not advocate sin. We do welcome homosexuals into our church but we don't tell them what they're doing is ok.
Shane never said it was okay. In this video he said that what they're trying to do is create love and intimacy outside of the marital covenant. Also, he has said himself that he is as pro-life as you can get.
@seanpaynedotnet Statements like this show a lack of true understanding of the bible. It is not a book of rules, it is not the word of God, it is a book of words about the word of God. Read it as you should any other book, scrutinize it and understand it in its historical, social, and cultural context. Learn about the writers and who the writings were being read by. Then it will reveal its beautiful story in an authentic and true manner allowing you to become amazingly close to Jesus.
The church Shane is looking for exists: the homosexual-affirming Methodists, Episcopalians and now ELCA Lutherans. Are those models Bible-believing Christians (who believe the text means what it says, e.g., Romans 1) want to embrace? The soft, social gospel coupled with the trappings of the emerging church is as spiritually bankrupt as the mainline denoms. Give me the old time religion that stands on the Bible as God's inerrant, infallible word regardless which way the PC winds are blowing.
@ryecroft57 Religion that is pure before God is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress... If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, keep warm and eat your fill' and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that?...Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is from God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear them is that you are not from God.
Roy, I certainly agree we are to care for the widows and orphans (what made you think I didn't and to arrogantly presume I am not from God?). I also noticed you left off the end of James 1:27--"and to keep himself unspotted from the world." This is where I find shortcomings with Shane and many other emergents. They've too readily reconciled with culture, whether by accepting homosexuality and/or an eager embrace of the pop culture's music, movies and media. There's a reluctance to call sin sin.
We probably could agree more than this kind of confrontational rhetoric would suggest, but I guess that's part of the game of inflammatory comments. My problem is that the church as it is perceived in America today is fixated on sex issues and evolution. I don't think this is the emphasis of the Bible. How many passages in the NT refer to homosexuality vs. how many refer to the poor? Condemnation of gays etc. usually goes along with ultra-free market ideas that condemn the poor on principle.
To sum up what I have read here: He looks like hell to the society we know.
I have poor eyesight, but didn't find out until I grew up, so God taught me how to see with the eyes of the spirit. As we all know the body is our temple, and we are the temple of God. I met mr Claiborne once, but I could barely tell what he looked like, because he was transparent, and the light of God shined through him. Is this a bad communication strategy?
Shane Claiborne is a false apostel. Why? His hair and outfit speaks too, and is a sign of radical love to himself and to the vanity. Apart of that, this "prophetic-hair" will be imitated of many young people. Why Shane do imitate a catholic Jesus? The real Jesus had short hair (cf. Paul speaking of the same generation in I Cor. 11:14).
Peter: it seems I'm following you on a couple vids (Tony Campolo). Surely you're joking with comments on Shane's appearance proving him a false apostle?!?! Read up on John the Baptist! HE looked more like Shane than a buzz-cut white male fundamentalist! And could 2 millienia of Jesus shown with long hair be a mistake? And how do we know what long hair was to Paul?? A woman's hair is not the same thing as long hair on a man!
John the Baptist was under vow of a Nazarite (Nu. 6). Today, time of N.T., there is only the obedience to all the commandements of the N.T.. Jesus was'nt under this vow, and consequently had short hair. Clear? Not? The idea of long hair of Jesus comes of the babylon-(catholik)-church and of Hollywood made movies ...
I don't know, Peter, I think you're trying to apply white male evangelical fundamentalist cultural trappings to a totally different culture, in the name of disrespecting "long hairs". Could Paul have been referring to what today would be transvestites? What else is known of "long hair" in Roman times?
We only have to obey the Word of God, of God(!!!), and not to study the roman times...
Shane Claiborne is a false apostel. Why? They don't obey the Word of God. "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud" (II Tm 3:2-3).
He's not perfect. But he's so loving and does so many good things. He's even worked with mother teresa. What have you done, sir? Let him who is perfect throw the first stone.
That's the problem, your problem, because you would say to Jesus the same apologetic: "He was a good worker "'he's even worked with mother Teresa'..." This great Teresa failed in this: "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." (I Cor. 13:3) - YOU HAVE TO OBEY THE WORD; AND THAT IS THE REAL CHARITY (LOVE), and this love will keep His commendements. OK? God bless you, dear "Neutral..." christian...
And how did Teresa fail to do this? you'll never have the capacity of charity that Mother Teresa had...look at your judging words calling him a "neutral" Christian you don't know anything about Neutralmilkinstereo. You don't know his heart so how could u have the audacity to say that? "...Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
An ignorant thing is to ignore the verse: "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (I Cor. 11:14-15). And: "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head." (V. 4). Shane do both in public: A) Cover his B) long & ugly hair with a pirate-veil ... "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)
A lot of old testament law isn't applicable today. A lot of it changed when Jesus died on the cross (i.e. animal sacrificing, commandments about clothing to wear and animals to eat, about the way you can cut your beard, etc.)
Having long hair neither shows nor defies your love for jesus. Give the guy a break. He's done so many great things.
"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion(!) is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry(!)" (I Sam 15.22c+23).
"He's done so many great things": Yes, you pragmatic disciples, "but to obey is better than sacrifice."-
I think people missed Espinozaize's point. Typical "fundies" expect us "whacky liberals" to look a certain way, and when we do, it reinforces their stereotype, and it's easier for them to say, "Oh, just another hippie."
It's like if a gay rights activist showed up at a courthouse or legislature in short-shorts and Mardi Gras beads and a tight "I love penis" t-shirt.
Thank you. Yes that was pretty much my point. Not that it is unchristian or wrong in any way to dress like Claiborne. But simply that if he chose a more neutral attaire he would get his message across with much less effort. Which I think is especially true regarding the more conservative Christians....
Your complete knowledge of who I am & what my intensions are from two YouTube Comments:Thats quite impressive! I am NOT saying its unchristian to look like Claiborne or that looks are important in them selves.What I am trying to say is only:If Claiborne whises to reach out to those Christians who Hate homosexuals. Hate the Sinner not the Sin.He will do a more effective Job if he does not dress as a radical liberal. As this only will increase the chance of prejudice blinding them to his message
this is my point sir. "christians" who hate homosexuals,or anyone, are not, in any way, followers of the Jesus Christ i know. and if they choose not to listen to someone because of how they look. it's just a way for them to have an excuse to not listen.
these "christians" will blind themselves intentionally no matter who presents them with this truth. the only way they will hear is if they open their hearts. no matter who is speaking to them or how he or she LOOKS
@Run4TheRabid To your comment about how someone looks as a reason not to listen to him: if I may say, that's a bit naive. No one has unlimited time. Thus, there are certain personal traits at which one might look and conclude, "Not interested." Granted, one may not reason, "He is ugly, therefore he is wrong." However, one may reason, "His appearance reflects a certain spirit in which I have no interest."
He makes a lot of good points. But it is just such a mistake that he choses to look like that. No main-streem or fundamentalist christian will listen to or take serious any one who looks like that. Looking like that he can make all the cleaver points he wishes but only those who allready agree will listen. Those who do not agree will discard him as soon as they see him and that is just too bad...
I watched and didn't even notice he had weird hair until I came down to the comments and read yours. I'm a pastor in a "main-streem" church. Most people today don't give a rat's ass anymore what a person looks like or how they dress. That is the superficiality that almost killed Christianity.
If that kind of superficiality almost have killed Christianity. Does this not indicate that it is a factor you should take quite seriously. So that when you like Claibourne try to spread a controversial message. You make sure that your message is the primary thing in focus & distractions like a radical leftwhing appearence should be avoided. Unless of course you think what he says about homosexuality & christendom is not viewed in many christian cirles as leftist blasphemy?
You will always be able to find something to disagree with if that's what you want. You have to understand that it's not about what the world thinks of us. I.e. it's a mistake he looks like that. It's about what God is doing. God's plan will not be even slightly hindered by his looks, in fact, Shane Is even more capable then I to relate to the homeless people and drug addicts. God will use you for His purpose no matter what. He has before and will continuedoing so.
Said what: That in order to communicate effectively with & thus persuade a greater number of the opposition. It is important not to appear as the incarnation of their prejudice & preconceived notions? Well they would be right would they not. As Jesus did not chose to come to the jews in the Roman middle east: Dressed as a Roman. The point beeing that when Claiborne chose to look like an ultra liberal hippie. His message will be lost on a lot of the people he wishes to persuade.
Fuck the church yeah I said it
peteya303 6 days ago
This is more of a uniform than dress blues. And probably more expensive as a lifesyle. (About Gandhi)"That old man has no idea how much it costs to keep him in poverty."
NixonisLord 3 weeks ago
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danallison100 3 weeks ago
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I'm assuming that Shane would be cool with that. But say the same thing to a person who is same-sex attracted and you're not be loving and inclusive. (?!) Now maybe behind all the frankly confusing and even goofy "60's hippy" talk Shane believes the same thing: that a person cannot righteously engage in any erotic activity with a member of the same sex - and should either live as a celibate or wait on God's healing relative to their sexual affinities. Great! Why not just say that?
deusregnum 2 months ago
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The thing that controlled my life before I found freedom in Christ - polyamory (of a hetero variety) - was pointed out to me in a loving way by people that I'm guessing Shane would point down as "fundies" as the dreaded three letter world that begins with "s." I was challenged to repent and yield my life to God, to receive HIs grace and trust Him to live a celibate life until such time as God brought me a bride (and stuff had to be worked out in me before that could happen.)
deusregnum 2 months ago
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There is danger here both in Shane's comments as well as in many of the posts of this video. It's not an either/or situation: call homosexuality what it is: one of many manifestations of human brokenness that is a serious sin if acted upon and be labeled a fundamentalist and a homophobe -- or be so concerned about being loving and inclusive that you send a confusing message where you make homosexuality sound like it may be OK if its just handled right. Why not just sound a clear trumpet?
deusregnum 2 months ago
Whatever, he so looks like he smokes weed. I wonder what God would think about that
joseaod15 4 months ago
@joseaod15 Well, GOD created weed, and as it turns out, it is one of the most versatile, holistic herbs found in nature. So before you assume you know GOD's opinion on weed, do some research, buddy. And as far as Shane Claiborne smoking weed? He is accountable to his peers nearly 24/7 as he lives in a community home with other ordinary radicals. So you can ask any of them if he smokes weed. Just because he has chosen not to take part in consumerist culture does not mean he must be a stoner. :)
bobsquat 4 months ago
So. What, exactly, IS SC's view on abortion?
sarahfarrar1 4 months ago
@sarahfarrar1 As one of my favorite authors and someone whom I know a lot about, I can tell you what his opinion on abortion most likely is. He would probably say that life is precious, and abortion must be stopped. But he would want to stop abortion not by legislation, but by Loving and befriending every lonely, scared single mother who is considering aborting, and by exposing the immense lies and manipulation behind the abortion industry.
bobsquat 4 months ago
I completely agree with everything he says. This man has obviously read the Bible and has known the Lord. May God show all who have watched or commented on this the truth and bless Shane!
Juniper0216 5 months ago
God sends sinners to hell, not sin itself. show me where it says God Loves the sinner not the sin in the bible. This is a lie. Gods love for us is a RESULT of our Faith in the definitive person, life, works, sufferings, death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. He doesn't love sinners, but on the contrary hates evil doers. Only those who have believed INTO Jesus Christ, are loved by God because of their Faith and Obedience to Jesus Christ His Son.
denvernfl 5 months ago
@denvernfl Romans 5:8. Why die for sinners if you don't love them? Why are we called to reach out and love the unloved if God doesn't love them? If God only loves those who are Christians (and how do we define that?) did He love anyone before Christ was resurrected and the Holy Spirit came down upon us? Just some questions from a messed-up-girl-in-the-process-of-becoming-more-and-more-like-Him Lover of Christ. "All glory to Him, both now and forever! Amen."
singingamidststars 4 months ago
@denvernfl If G-d didn't love sinners, he wouldn't love anyone. We are all sinners, but he sees us as more than conquerers by his grace. If we accept his love, we are saved in the sense that our lives begin to transform because we begin to trust the Love of G-d as life. :) We are saved from destroying ourselves, G-d's "wrath". G-d offers His unconditional love to all of us. We who believe in his love should be embodying that, and showing love to others as well because we are made in his image.
rachellovespeople1 2 months ago
Well, except for ourselves, we are not to judge.
lifeseeker51 5 months ago
He's a Church Insert Agent trying to get the Hippies WATCH OUT MOTHER FUCKERS
jay91fray 6 months ago
@jay91fray There is no need for your profanity. You obviously are of a lower intelligence that you cannot formulate a sentence without swearing.
ServingMyJesus 6 months ago
@ServingMyJesus awesome
jay91fray 6 months ago
also just the same that homosexuality is a sin, isn't judging homosexuals as if we are God also a sin?
jwdesign336 6 months ago 3
is he wearing a robe because of levitical law?
jwdesign336 6 months ago
@jwdesign336 No, I believe that is just a homemade hoodie. It looks like a robe because most if not all of his clothes are homemade.
bobsquat 4 months ago
That was moving.
TheVideoVector 7 months ago
you people do realize that true homosexuality is biological. Its genetically proven. Although there are some people out there who do choose to be gay based on bad experiences or because of self image.
civilizationsdead 8 months ago
@civilizationsdead That is just not true. It has been sought after, but there is still no such thing as a "gay gene". Homosexuality is still considered psychological. Even if they did one day prove it was biological, it would still not take away God's love for those engulfed in that lifestyle as our fates are not determined by biology. He paid the penalty to bring us into a right relationship with Himself. He has the power to change and I have seen it in a number of my homo friends.
Danny2Lisa 7 months ago
And then he says that he is a friend of heretic Rob Bell.. Ok, thats enough for me.. Goodbye Claiborne
YeshuaReinaSiempre 8 months ago
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72lights1 2 months ago
He looks like Rob Bell with dreadlocks and facial hair, and having heard what Rob Bell preaches.. that is scary.
YeshuaReinaSiempre 8 months ago
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Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. - Jesus Christ
Tharpe09 9 months ago
What utter drivel.
wgordon8 9 months ago
*love Not live
MurasalaKid318 9 months ago
@openyourbible he wasn't speaking of that part of the issue. Regardless of whether or not homosexuality is a sin homosexual individuals should be able to find the live and shelter they need in the church. We are supposed to show them Jesus and His heart for them and so often we don't.
MurasalaKid318 9 months ago
i like this guy he is hot
theman0dam 11 months ago
Guys don't think of religion like going to church, worshiping and just being there actually think of what God did for you and try to incounter what God is really like!!! those of you who think going to church is stupid, it's not! You would be going straight to hell if God didn't die for you, he got what YOU deserve when he suffered and died on the roman cross... God loves you and wants to encounter you... And if you feel like going to church doesn't work for you go to Jesus Culture!!! God loves!
TNTHapy 1 year ago
Jn 8:15 - "You judge by human standards, I pass judgement on no-one." - Jesus, talking to the Pharisees
If Jesus says he doesn't pass judgement then who are we to?
The crux of this video is when Shane says, "This is more complicated than anything I've thought." Like Jesus, Shane is not passing judgement but trying to accept and love all.
SmartStr33t 1 year ago
@SmartStr33t --You are proof-texting, and in this case you're actually incorrect. Jesus does judge: he calls Pharisees hypocrites, he forgives sin (a form of judgment), and he will be the one that says to people, "Depart from me. I never knew you." In John 7:24, Jesus tells Pharisees to "judge with right judgment." Paul even says that believers are to judge those inside the church (1 Cor. 5:12). In summary: we are to judge but with right judgment.
propheticimpact 1 year ago
@propheticimpact ok, so Jesus condemns the Pharisees, usually for making relationship with God too difficult for the everyday folk (for judging them unworthy). I disagree that forgiving sins is "a form of judgement", at least not in a way that detracts from my initial point. Jesus will judge in the end, but for now, this is the day of the favour of the LORD. As for now, Jn12:47 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him."
SmartStr33t 1 year ago
While I quite appreciate what Shane is saying, the background music makes this a bit cheesy... Shane is soft and tender enough in himself, the music makes it feel like this is a compilation trying to make people canonize him as a saint before his death ;)
Hrugnir 1 year ago
But Jesus told many to go and sin no more. Church is safe for homosexuals, but not safe for homosexuality. We need to repent of of that God abhors. Murder, anger, lust, coveting.... doesn't belong at church. Yet Murderers, adulterors, do belong.
I love you Shane, but softening the message about sin is very dangerous.
clubadv 1 year ago
If homoslove is a sin, then I am created to sin while I build anything resembling a relationship, its logical outcome, which is membership in a community, and even the briefest of friendships. You hetero-frustrated xtians can have the earthly privilege you want at the expense of Queers everywhere, shucking and bullshitting with your hetero-lore, and I'll see you on judgement day when I get justice, while you can have "God's Love" and get tossed for refusing it your entire lives. SO sorry. NOT.
kern0099 1 year ago
lol religion is soo so so so rediculous. people wake up!!!!
ryanneglect 1 year ago
The problem is too many people assume that God hates homosexuals. He doesn't. Only sin is hated by God, it's in the Bible. Homosexuality should be treated like any other sin. If a man commits abortion, he is doing the same thing as one who is homosexual. The Bible clearly defines that sin is sin, there is nothing greater than the other. Accept Jesus as your savior and you will be accepted into God's family, that is all.
historygooru1 1 year ago 18
@historygooru1 That was deep-sin is sin. So if the gays come to your church and want to be a part of your church while remaining homosexuality which means exposing many including childeren to this sin? Ever wander why fundamentalists are passionate about what we are passionate about? As fundamentalidsm opposed evolution and modernists came on the scene(and never went away-just became emergent)-Harry Fosdick was for Eugenics and believed appeasing Hitler. Of course, abortion came from eugenics!
daveme7 1 year ago
@historygooru1 - Scripture is useful where it is in accord with life and love and there are no flaws in the truth being represented. You have to be your own judge of truth and love when you read anything, even the Bible. No matter how divine a message and how pure the message of God, it ultimately comes down to a man dictating it, there is a portion of the writers hand in the message - without a doubt. God speaks through very deep inspiration - once put into words it takes on human traits
StrongHeartLives 1 year ago
@historygooru1 another thing we must inform people is that God is infact angry. i agree with you 100% that God is love. but he is angry at the sinner. it's crucial to explain that since our cultural has such an awkward view of love.
nantapatt 9 months ago
@historygooru1 God hates ALL sexual acts that outside of marriage. Thus adultary and fornication are just as bad as homosexuality. But the problem is adultary and fornication have become an accepted practice in society including Christianity. If this is not so then Christians would be as vocal about adultary and fornication as they are about homosexuality.
ServingMyJesus 6 months ago
Its a bit difficult to discern exactly what is his position on homosexuality because he speaks in a vague manner which itself, is not a Christian characteristic. Its correct for Christian ministries to accept homosexuals, just as they would any other sinners. After all, churches have never existed for the purpose of ministering to the perfect. But it seems that what he is saying is that his ministry is accepting of homosexuality. If so, then its ironic that he would speak of
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
@Chuichupachichi
I am glad to see that you believe that homosexuality is sinful. However, if I may w/o offense say: Christians should not just accept everyone as they are. After all, God does not. This is why He demands repentance: the very idea is, "I don't accept you as you are. Now change that I may accept you."
Now, this does not mean that Christians should be mean or nasty to any sinner, including but not limited to homosexuals.
purereligion127 1 year ago
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's" Matthew 7:5
we should really be worried about what God doesn't find right in ourselves before we call out others for their sins. i believe in bringing people to Christ regardless of what their sexuality is and letting their personal relationship with Jesus Christ work out whatever sin He finds in them. we don't know their hearts so it's not for us to judge their sins.
o0katiekins0o 1 year ago 2
"selective fundamentalism" because being accepting of homosexuality is selecting particular scriptures while dismissing the scriptures regarding homosexuality. Those scriptures are not at all vague. They're straight forward, to the point & blunt. One scripture regarding homosexuality, contains the word "natural". That is precisely the crux of the matter. God created nature & nature's order. Within humanity there are only 2 sex organs... the penis & the vagina. They're perfectly functionally
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
compatible for copulation & reproduction can occur. Its a popular belief that homosexuality is innate from birth. But both homosexuality & heterosexuality are behaviors. If behaviors were determined by genetics, then there would be a gene for every imaginable behavior. There isn't even one behavior gene. Behavior is determined by genetics only indirectly, when dictated by the anatomical form. Thus, heterosexuality is the innate, human sexual behavior... its natural. Homosexuality is unnatural.
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
Saying these things is unpopular but denying the obvious truth & fooling ourselves does nobody any good... its a disservice to even homosexuals. It can only do harm & much harm it has done & continues to do. A huge part of Satanism is to do things precisely because they're contrary to nature's order. Satanists don't come from other planets. They're from the general population. Thus, most of them are heterosexuals & even married. But they ritualistically engage in homosexual sex.
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
@Chuichupachichi I'm pretty sure Shane thinks homosexuality is a sin. If you watched through this entire video just to say how outraged you are about him not screaming out how much homosexuality is wrong, I don't know how to respond.
Hrugnir 1 year ago 11
Homosexuality is in fact, a Satanic thing. Shane Claiborne should chew on that one for a while. He doesn't come in a Dracula costume... but as an angel of light.
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
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Hrugnir 1 year ago
I am a fundamentalist but I am also a person of love. To reject the truth of the gospel in the "name of love" is demonic. Truth is fundemental and you cannot change that. At the same time we must speak the truth in love. The problem is that some do not want to hear truth so modern preachers drop the truth to accomidate their sin. Speak the truth in love - love the sinner but speak the truth. These men will be held accoutable for the blood of multitudes. If i love you I will tell you the truth!!
FLINTER47 1 year ago
Shane should act to preserve his integrity; his sophism exposes him. He should admit the simple and plain truth: When I went to college, I got intimidated by my sociology professors, and I suppressed my God-given repulsion to homosexuality.
purereligion127 1 year ago
@purereligion127 He went to a college that espouses a Christian worldview... Did you have a God-given repulsion to fornication, adultery, lusting, any sex outside of marriage of any kind? What about lying? What about greed? Gluttony? Vanity? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...
kelouis75 1 year ago
@kelouis75
1) Your questions make no sense. Yes, I (like you and everyone else) have a God-given repulsion to all sin. This function is sometimes called a conscience.
2) It is not a matter of who is sinning and who is not: it is an issue of calling sin, sin. For sure, the moment of gracious forgiveness experienced by the woman caught in the act of adultery, this more often than not could not occur in America. Why? Because such sins are no longer called sins. Thus, what's to forgive?
purereligion127 1 year ago
@purereligion127 "one of the reasons why civil discussion has broken down in our culture is b/c of the attitude exhibited..."
Yeah, it has NOTHING to do with theists always making unsupportable claims, outright falsehoods and lies...and when asked to SUPPORT their claims, they do what you've been doing...run like a little bitch.
Gooberlicious54 1 year ago
@purereligion127 "I don't make unsupportable claims"
...
"I (like you and everyone else) have a God-given repulsion to all sin."
That's FOUR now...make all the unsupportable claims you want, just stop LYING about it.
Also, if EVERYONE has a "God-given repulsion" to ALL sin, why are restaurants like Red Lobster doing so well? According to your holy book eating shellfish is a sin. (again, don't bother answering the last question - rhetorical)
Gooberlicious54 1 year ago
@purereligion127 "the moment of gracious forgiveness...could not occur in America. Why? Because such sins are no longer called sins. Thus, what's to forgive?"
So if something is not (and according to your religion, never has been) a sin, it's okay to do and doesn't need forgiveness?
You DO realize this covers such "non sins" as rape, child molestation, beating a child, etc.?
So rape, molest, beat all you want...but don't touch that steak on a Friday, because THAT would piss God off.
LOL
Gooberlicious54 1 year ago
@purereligion127 The real issue is that many people can't see their own sin as being repulsive to God. They look @ others & say "your sin is way worse than mine". People divide sins into "big" sin and "little" sin catagories. Pride is the real issue. How would U like for some1 to drag out all of your sins, put them on public display, ridicule & alienate U? Shane is saying that people can live w/out sex-- they can't live w/out love. See Jn 3:1-17 and Mt 7:1-27. What law is talked about here?
kelouis75 1 year ago
@kelouis75
1) Some sin is worse than others--the act of stealing a piece of bubble gum is not as bad as the act of rape.
2) I agree that pride is a big issue facing many in America. It is precisely pride that motivates many to deny the sinfulness of sin instead of repenting of it. Good point.
3) Long ago, in a public setting, before many people about whom I care very much, I publicly confessed my sin and faith in Christ. Humiliating? Yes. Freeing? Yes. This should happen more.
purereligion127 1 year ago
@purereligion127
1) Why is the act of stealing a piece of bubble gum not as bad as rape? Where does the Bible say that some sin is more evil than others?
2) Agreed.
3) Admitting sin is needed daily. Just because we are under grace does not mean that we are now without sin. (Romans 7:19) It means we recognize that God loves us despite our shortcommings. Romans 1-2 is about pride, we have to recognize our sin in this passage, too. Then let it motivate us to love others (1 Cor. 13:4-8).
kelouis75 1 year ago
@kelouis75
To 1: The concept is found throughout the Scriptures, e.g. blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not forgivable. However, and more importantly, in the end, I do not need the Bible to know that rape is worse than stealing gum. In addition, I would argue that those who do are not in a place to read and understand the Sacred Text.
To 3: Sure, but you do make a distinction between turning from a life of sin (conversion) to leaving all particular sins behind (sanctification)?
purereligion127 1 year ago
@purereligion127 You miss the point & so there is no real need to continue this conversation.
kelouis75 1 year ago
@kelouis75
So be it.
purereligion127 1 year ago
same old "love the sinner hate the sin" crap I've heard all my life. How about just saying that the bible was written by fallible humans and was wrong about homosexuality?
aristottlesdeathwish 1 year ago
@aristottlesdeathwish Actually, it is not the same old "Love the Sinner and Hate the Sin" crap. He is acknowledging that people are created that way.
Also, there is simply nothing in the Bible that refers to what we term "homosexuality." It just isn't there, and any serious student of the Bible has to acknowledge that.
cm1165 1 year ago
@cm1165 He never once admits that God created them that, he just sidesteps the issue by saying he KNOWS people that think they were created that way. To me, that's is just as bad.
aristottlesdeathwish 1 year ago
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@cm1165 "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
Lev 18:22-23 "you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
please explain how this makes the bible gay friendly?
aristottlesdeathwish 1 year ago
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@cm1165
"neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
Lev 18:22-23 "you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
please explain how this makes the bible gay friendly?
aristottlesdeathwish 1 year ago
@cage and @ sky.....why don't you guys just message each other privately and quit dominating the comments section...man....i scrolled down hoping to see some engaging conversations taking place and all i see is this crap.
Boutit5150 1 year ago
@Boutit5150
What do you expect, it's YouTube. It's the only place those two jokers could vent such piss poor logic (though at least Sky was being polite, whereas cage's already sad argumentation was only magnified by his trollish screaming). Seriously, I haven't seen two people unleash so much sound and fury without intellectual backing like that since the Rottfeller/Thomas debates.
*sigh*
graph180 1 year ago
Hey, Jonathan Davis, I'm so excited for Korn's new album!
cdlinville 1 year ago
"you guys don;t even believe you have a SOUL."
I prefer reality to belief. Last time I checked there is no evidence that what you call a "soul" exists. If you have any evidence feel free to give it in your response.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
It doesn't matter how much New Age music and Halloween costumes you put in these videos.
There is no evidence that a God exists and the perverted, disgusting Bible and all the Jesus twaddle is a bunch of mythological nonsense.
If you want to live life as a good person, live life as a good person.
And FUCK Christianity...ALL of it.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
I don't undertsand athiests...it's as if you are some sort of religion, the thing you all speak against and 'hate'. I mean you guys always going on Christians videos trying to 'convert' us to your faithless and non-believing ways. And for Christ sake you guys don;t even believe you have a SOUL. If I were to choose any religion other than Christianity it would NOT be one that does not believe in theiselves yet chooses to patronize everyone that does. Your litterally trying to prove NOTHING.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
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CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "I mean you guys always going on Christians videos trying to 'convert' us to your faithless and non-believing ways."
I go on videos to challenge religious claims without evidence. In my opinion my "ways," are infinitely better than your own groveling-before-a-non-existant-Sky-fairy brand of shit-for-brains religious cowardice ways.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle Exactly sir. And that is your opinion and I respect that (:
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "Your litterally trying to prove NOTHING."
I think you're finally getting it. I'm here to challenge worthless religious twaddle and specifically: claims without evidence.
Atheism isn't a claim and it doesn't assert anything. Atheism is an absence of theistic belief.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle The ironic thing is...your shoving your beliefs down peoples throats. Isn't that the thing Athiests don't like about religion. Hey it's fine you don't believe. That's your choice man. But quit shoving your crap down our throats. Because while you can;t prove God exists, you still can't prove he doesn't. So there really is no debate. It's a debate pf opinions and beliefs which we all know, no one can win.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "The ironic thing is...your shoving your beliefs down peoples throats"
I've expressed an "opinion" not a "belief." My opinion is that people who make religious claims without evidence are full of shit, and I do enjoy shoving that opinion down the people's throats who make the claims without evidence, just as they shove their religious bullshit down everyone else's throats.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle No one here is shoving anything down your throat sir. You came to this video by free will. Remeber that. And I hate people who tell me to live a certain way also. Let's try over in the middle east where many Islamic people who convert to Christianity are killed. Is that so justified? Or how about in China where if you convert to any religion bu Buddhism or Athiesm you are also killed? Is it right to crucify those who do not have the same opinion as you?
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle The people on these comments are simply talking about their beliefs. I don;t see anyone on here saying "everyone has to be Christian, anyone who isn't" because that sir is ignorant, narrow-minded, and quite frankly unrational. Logic, worldy knowledge, reading skills, etc. are what join 'smart' people together. Beliefs are what seperate us. Until people like you can learn that the whole world cannot conform to your beliefs, there will be no peace.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "Because while you can;t prove God exists, you still can't prove he doesn't."
FALLACY: PROVE A NEGATIVE
Prove your mother doesn't have a family of invisible mice who rule the universe from inside her vagina? You can't? Wow, then we're on equal ground. The mice are as likely in your mother's twat as not according to your scintillating logic.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle I've heard that one before but it still proves nothing. The point is, you cannot call people with their beliefs 'idiots' when infact a great number are highly intellegent. Either way, your the ignorant one here for trying to shove what you think is fact down everyones throat. It is not fact that God does not exist.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
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@SkylarAlyxis "I don't undertsand athiests."
Atheists are people with no theistic beliefs. It isn't a hard concept to grasp at all. Is it possible you're just not very smart?
"it's as if you are some sort of religion, the thing you all speak against and 'hate'"
FALLACY: STRAW MAN
Religions have doctrines and churches. Many atheists, being individuals, don't "speak against" or "hate" your fairytales one little bit.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
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@SkylarAlyxis "I don't undertsand athiests."
Atheists are people with no theistic beliefs. It isn't a hard concept to grasp at all. Is it possible you're just not very smart?
"it's as if you are some sort of religion, the thing you all speak against and 'hate'"
FALLACY: STRAW MAN
Religions have doctrines and churches. Many atheists, being individuals, don't "speak against" or "hate" your fairytales one little bit.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle So indeed your saying the great scientists like Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein who infact believed there was a God, their stuopid? Along with Galileo Galilei and Nicholas Copernicus? If you don't hate or speak against our 'fairytales' why do you come here shoving your beleifs down our throat?
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "So indeed your saying the great scientists like Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein who infact believed there was a God, their stuopid?"
Einstein didn't believe in a religious "God" you blithering idiot. He used the word "God" to express his wonder at the areas of science still shrouded in mystery. As for Newton, he was probably an atheist who had to pretend to believe in God so he didn't get tied to a stick and burned by Chrit-roaches like you.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle And your assuming these things about these people as if you know it for a fact? Prove it. And many people who believe in God also don't believe in religion. Such as myself. There's also agnostics, who believe there could be a God but do not conform to religion. 'Chrit-raoches' like me. There you go again. Sterotyping billions of Christians. I don't care about other's beleifs but I stick by mine.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle See I'm not religious through. I am spiritual. I'm 'techinically' a Christian, but I don't go to church. So if the best thing you can use against people is stereotypes then goodluck. No one on either side can prove anything.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "See I'm not religious through. I am spiritual. I'm 'techinically' a Christian"
SEE: CHRISTIAN SLOGANS FOR DUMMIES, #49
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle People's beliefs can't be caged into one system. So no, I don't consider myself any of the denominations. You can be a spiritual Christian and not be in a religion. Can you comprehend that?
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle Here's the thing. I have a close knit group of friends. All of us are intellegent and have deep conversations, are in honors classes together, and are generally polite and well mannered people. Half of us are Athiest and the other half Christian, and one is Jewish. We have our debates and such but we all have undertsnading that each of us has our own beliefs. And we all respect each other.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis I'm not "debating" anything. I'm not asserting anything. I'm challenging your religious claims without evidence and I'm challenging your stupid, propagandistic assertion that atheism is a religion.
Religious claims without evidence versus an absence of theistic belief are NOT on equal footing in a "debate." To enjoy a strong position in a debate it is necessary to back up any claims you make, with evidence. Atheism isn't a claim, it's an absence of theistic belief.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle I didn't say Atheism was a religion. I said that some of the people out there like you make it seem like your trying to 'save' everyone or soemthing of the sort by calling our beliefs "stupid". Like I said, I am a Christian of no religion; I do not go to church nor do I belong to any denomination. And I don't believe this debate was ever about proving that either side is correct because we both know opinions and beliefs cannot ever be proven.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis And by the way I think I've stated this in so many words so many times but it's called 'freedom of speech' and people can go on what happens to be a Christian video and talk about their beliefs or opinions. If it bothers you so, perhaps you should find a better planet to reside upon because 6 billion people cannot convert to your beliefs sir. Challenging? There's nothing to challenge, they are opinions we believe which cannot be proven. Just as yours can't?
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis
The person making the claim has the burden of proof to fulfill. Atheism isn't a claim. It's a state of being without theistic belief.
I'm here to challenge dopey religious claims without evidence. If what I do bothers you so much, why don't you go ask your mommy for your afternoon snack and take a mister-cranky-pants nap until you feel better.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle Ohh your cute (: There's nothing to challenge because all you have for debate is "there is no proof". Existence of God cannot be a debate. There's no proof on either side. So what are you challenging? No there is no proof at all. Duh?
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "Existence of God cannot be a debate."
FALLACY: SPECIAL PLEADING
Whoops, shit-for-brains is making up excuses as to why his fairytale gets a special set of rules. It doesn't.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
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CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
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@SkylarAlyxis "There's no proof on either side."
Golly shit-for-brains is repeating the crap from 10 comments ago. Fairytale belief in the perverted "God" of the disgusting Bible doesn't get equal footing with an empirical, evidence-based worldview in a debate. Too bad, so sad.
"So what are you challenging?"
The assertion that a "God" exists which comes without evidence. But here's the important question. What are YOU challenging? (Answer: Nothing, I'm not making a claim.)
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis
"Christian of no religion"
FALLACY: OXYMORON
Atheism is an absence of theistic belief. It can't be "correct" or "incorrect" any more than a lack of belief in your mother having a family of magical mice who rule the universe from inside her twat would be "correct" or "incorrect." It's just a factual state of being for some people, not an assertion of anything.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle Christian meaning I believe in Christ. That makes me spititual. Religious means engaging in RELIGIOUS activities such as church and denominations. If I were a BAPTIST or MEDTHODIST of no religion that would indeed be an oxymoron.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "Christian meaning I believe in Christ. That makes me spititual. Religious means engaging in RELIGIOUS activities such as church and denominations."
O.K. I'll tell the 7 billion people of the world who you keep mentioning, that shit-for-brains has redefined belief in Jesus. Believing in the perverted, disgusting parasitical Bronze Ages fairytales of Jesus is now "spiritual" NOT RELIGIOUS.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle I wasn't speaking for 7 billion people.I was speaking for MYSELF. That's what you obviously don;t get. People have the right to their own opinion sir (: If you can't handle that maybe you'd like to find another planet to inhabit because this world is filled with different views. Also note that I'm not claiming any SET beliefs. I'm being very open minded here.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "I wasn't speaking for 7 billion people.I was speaking for MYSELF."
Really??? YOU don't speak for ALL 7 BILLION PEOPLE ON EARTH???
Fuck, thanks for clarifying that.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle Uhhh...yeahhhh?
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle I'm not representing anyone but myself, I'm saying that all of them are not 'stupid' because they have a certain belief you don't agree on. Which you obviously can't accept I see. Anyone who does not think exactly like you is stupid aye? I like how you keep only taking one sentence and replying to that since you have no reply to the others also
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "all of them are not 'stupid' because they have a certain belief you don't agree on. Which you obviously can't accept I see. Anyone who does not think exactly like you is stupid?"
I "accept" that people make claims without evidence; that's why I participate in the public marketplace of ideas and challenge them. Holding them to a higher standard shows them that crappy religions like yours are houses of cards which can be blown over rather easily.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "I like how you keep only taking one sentence and replying to that since you have no reply to the others also"
Golly, forgive me for not sifting through your vomit more carefully and meticulously addressing your repetitive twaddle, straw man attacks and hysterical rejoinders.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle And instantly there you go again. I am in no way using 'propaganda'. As for those who do, ignore it? This is the world sir, you have to get use to other people's shit. Your kind of sharing it with 6 billion other people or so.
But tell me how different it is from all the Atheists shoving their propaganda down our throats? Not much of a difference at all. That's why SMART people don;t shove their beliefs down other's throats.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis Atheism isn't a claim any more than baldness is a hairdo or an empty refrigerator is a dinner recipe.
Atheism is an absence of theistic belief. Hence, it isn't asserting anything and therefore isn't capable of producing "propaganda."
You must be confusing atheism with other areas of philosophy.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle No. Agnostic has no claim. They believe there could be a God but there is no proof, they don't tell people believing in God is 'stupid' since they believe it's a possibility. Athiests are completely dead set on believing there is no God. Which is a claim that God does not exist. An opinion I respect just as any other, but I don't want it shoved down my throat (:
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "No. Agnostic has no claim."
Definition of "Agnostic":
Without knowledge
Definition of "Atheist"
Without theistic belief
Definition of "Amoral"
Without a moral compass
Are you seeing a pattern developing?
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "They believe there could be a God but there is no proof"
That isn't an accurate defintion of agnostic. That's your crappy editorialized, bastardized definition. Agnostic means, without knowledge, period. I'm agnostic as to whether you have a donkey dick up your ass, for example.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "they don't tell people believing in God is 'stupid' since they believe it's a possibility."
FALLACY: STRAW MAN
"Athiests are completely dead set on believing there is no God."
Every baby is born an atheist. You think babies are "dead set on believing there is no God?" ROFL You're a complete idiot and you don't have any idea what atheism is. (P.S. Look up "anti-theism" after your dick grows back after this drubbing I'm giving you.)
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@CageFreeWaffle Dude seriously how old are you? You are probably the most arrogant person I've come across yet. After your dick grows back? Donkey stick up my ass? What are you like 6? You have the arrogant know it all energy of one. PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, just because billions of people don't agree with you does not make them 'stupid'. For you to think so shows you're narrow minded.
SkylarAlyxis 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "Dude seriously how old are you?"
I'm 923, just like the dudes in the shit Bible you spend your life masturbating over.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "You are probably the most arrogant person I've come across yet."
FALLACY: STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE
Gee willikers, sounds like mister cranky pants can't make any debate points and he's going on the personal attack now.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
@SkylarAlyxis "PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, just because billions of people don't agree with you does not make them 'stupid'"
It doesn't make them smart by default either. Example: If 50 trillion Christians say that: 1 + 1 = 9 and one retarded monkey says that: 1 + 1 = 2 who would be right? You're committing the ad populum fallacy by invoking gigantic numbers of delusional wack-a-doodles as some sort of boost for your "argument" if you can call it that.
CageFreeWaffle 1 year ago
Theres like over 30,000 sects of christianity all claiming to be the one and only "true" version. Go ahead and pick and choose, thats cool. Its all just a perversion of paganism anyway.
tomwaitsfan84 1 year ago
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"Its all just a perversion of paganism anyway."
How so?
KPACHNbIBLOOD 1 year ago
that list is soooo botched and includes things that are in no way considered Christian.
KennyVaughan 1 year ago
@tomwaitsfan84 you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. start reading shit, get smart... don't prove you're an ignorant sheep
taktulutaktu 1 year ago
I support much of what Shane says... but I believe this particular video shows he is misguided. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. In my heart I believe abortion is wrong. Its not our right to take away life. Its not our right to cut God's plans for a life short. I believe the Bible supports this as well. We do love sinners... but we do not advocate sin. We do welcome homosexuals into our church but we don't tell them what they're doing is ok.
Misscommentator 1 year ago
@Misscommentator
Shane never said it was okay. In this video he said that what they're trying to do is create love and intimacy outside of the marital covenant. Also, he has said himself that he is as pro-life as you can get.
yippeeefriends 1 year ago
Homosexuality is an abomination.
Abortion is baby-murder.
You are not to base what you believe on experiences, but on the Bible alone.
seanpaynedotnet 1 year ago
@seanpaynedotnet Statements like this show a lack of true understanding of the bible. It is not a book of rules, it is not the word of God, it is a book of words about the word of God. Read it as you should any other book, scrutinize it and understand it in its historical, social, and cultural context. Learn about the writers and who the writings were being read by. Then it will reveal its beautiful story in an authentic and true manner allowing you to become amazingly close to Jesus.
Patchh09 1 year ago
@seanpaynedotnet I agree!
TheSturgill 1 year ago
The church Shane is looking for exists: the homosexual-affirming Methodists, Episcopalians and now ELCA Lutherans. Are those models Bible-believing Christians (who believe the text means what it says, e.g., Romans 1) want to embrace? The soft, social gospel coupled with the trappings of the emerging church is as spiritually bankrupt as the mainline denoms. Give me the old time religion that stands on the Bible as God's inerrant, infallible word regardless which way the PC winds are blowing.
ryecroft57 1 year ago
@ryecroft57 Religion that is pure before God is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress... If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, keep warm and eat your fill' and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that?...Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is from God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear them is that you are not from God.
royscott1688 1 year ago
Roy, I certainly agree we are to care for the widows and orphans (what made you think I didn't and to arrogantly presume I am not from God?). I also noticed you left off the end of James 1:27--"and to keep himself unspotted from the world." This is where I find shortcomings with Shane and many other emergents. They've too readily reconciled with culture, whether by accepting homosexuality and/or an eager embrace of the pop culture's music, movies and media. There's a reluctance to call sin sin.
ryecroft57 1 year ago
We probably could agree more than this kind of confrontational rhetoric would suggest, but I guess that's part of the game of inflammatory comments. My problem is that the church as it is perceived in America today is fixated on sex issues and evolution. I don't think this is the emphasis of the Bible. How many passages in the NT refer to homosexuality vs. how many refer to the poor? Condemnation of gays etc. usually goes along with ultra-free market ideas that condemn the poor on principle.
royscott1688 1 year ago
To sum up what I have read here: He looks like hell to the society we know.
I have poor eyesight, but didn't find out until I grew up, so God taught me how to see with the eyes of the spirit. As we all know the body is our temple, and we are the temple of God. I met mr Claiborne once, but I could barely tell what he looked like, because he was transparent, and the light of God shined through him. Is this a bad communication strategy?
errrreth 2 years ago
Shane Claiborne is a false apostel. Why? His hair and outfit speaks too, and is a sign of radical love to himself and to the vanity. Apart of that, this "prophetic-hair" will be imitated of many young people. Why Shane do imitate a catholic Jesus? The real Jesus had short hair (cf. Paul speaking of the same generation in I Cor. 11:14).
Peterneuh 2 years ago
Peter: it seems I'm following you on a couple vids (Tony Campolo). Surely you're joking with comments on Shane's appearance proving him a false apostle?!?! Read up on John the Baptist! HE looked more like Shane than a buzz-cut white male fundamentalist! And could 2 millienia of Jesus shown with long hair be a mistake? And how do we know what long hair was to Paul?? A woman's hair is not the same thing as long hair on a man!
mowriter 2 years ago
John the Baptist was under vow of a Nazarite (Nu. 6). Today, time of N.T., there is only the obedience to all the commandements of the N.T.. Jesus was'nt under this vow, and consequently had short hair. Clear? Not? The idea of long hair of Jesus comes of the babylon-(catholik)-church and of Hollywood made movies ...
Peterneuh 2 years ago
I don't know, Peter, I think you're trying to apply white male evangelical fundamentalist cultural trappings to a totally different culture, in the name of disrespecting "long hairs". Could Paul have been referring to what today would be transvestites? What else is known of "long hair" in Roman times?
mowriter 2 years ago
We only have to obey the Word of God, of God(!!!), and not to study the roman times...
Shane Claiborne is a false apostel. Why? They don't obey the Word of God. "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud" (II Tm 3:2-3).
Peterneuh 2 years ago
@Peterneuh
He's not perfect. But he's so loving and does so many good things. He's even worked with mother teresa. What have you done, sir? Let him who is perfect throw the first stone.
Neutralmilkinstereo 2 years ago
That's the problem, your problem, because you would say to Jesus the same apologetic: "He was a good worker "'he's even worked with mother Teresa'..." This great Teresa failed in this: "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." (I Cor. 13:3) - YOU HAVE TO OBEY THE WORD; AND THAT IS THE REAL CHARITY (LOVE), and this love will keep His commendements. OK? God bless you, dear "Neutral..." christian...
Peterneuh 2 years ago
@Peterneuh
I wish you would be more loving. We ALL come short of the glory of God. That's you too.
Neutralmilkinstereo 2 years ago
And how did Teresa fail to do this? you'll never have the capacity of charity that Mother Teresa had...look at your judging words calling him a "neutral" Christian you don't know anything about Neutralmilkinstereo. You don't know his heart so how could u have the audacity to say that? "...Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
jbrowse09 2 years ago
Last time I checked God didn't write the bible, man did.
Nijjung 2 years ago
@Peterneuh
Why are you judging him because of his hair? That is the most ignorant thing i've heard all day.
Neutralmilkinstereo 2 years ago
An ignorant thing is to ignore the verse: "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (I Cor. 11:14-15). And: "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head." (V. 4). Shane do both in public: A) Cover his B) long & ugly hair with a pirate-veil ... "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)
Peterneuh 2 years ago
@Peterneuh
A lot of old testament law isn't applicable today. A lot of it changed when Jesus died on the cross (i.e. animal sacrificing, commandments about clothing to wear and animals to eat, about the way you can cut your beard, etc.)
Having long hair neither shows nor defies your love for jesus. Give the guy a break. He's done so many great things.
Neutralmilkinstereo 2 years ago
"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion(!) is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry(!)" (I Sam 15.22c+23).
"He's done so many great things": Yes, you pragmatic disciples, "but to obey is better than sacrifice."-
Peterneuh 2 years ago
At any rate, I think we can all agree that Shane Claiborne does not have what it takes to wear a beard.
supersillyandsuper 2 years ago 2
I think people missed Espinozaize's point. Typical "fundies" expect us "whacky liberals" to look a certain way, and when we do, it reinforces their stereotype, and it's easier for them to say, "Oh, just another hippie."
It's like if a gay rights activist showed up at a courthouse or legislature in short-shorts and Mardi Gras beads and a tight "I love penis" t-shirt.
Roboboogey1990 2 years ago 2
You'd zuck his dick.
creamsodaboy 2 years ago
Thank you. Yes that was pretty much my point. Not that it is unchristian or wrong in any way to dress like Claiborne. But simply that if he chose a more neutral attaire he would get his message across with much less effort. Which I think is especially true regarding the more conservative Christians....
Espinozaize 2 years ago
oh yea and sorry espinozaize if jesus only came to save the groomed and good looking. if thats the case i guess im going to hell
Run4TheRabid 2 years ago 2
Your complete knowledge of who I am & what my intensions are from two YouTube Comments:Thats quite impressive! I am NOT saying its unchristian to look like Claiborne or that looks are important in them selves.What I am trying to say is only:If Claiborne whises to reach out to those Christians who Hate homosexuals. Hate the Sinner not the Sin.He will do a more effective Job if he does not dress as a radical liberal. As this only will increase the chance of prejudice blinding them to his message
Espinozaize 2 years ago
this is my point sir. "christians" who hate homosexuals,or anyone, are not, in any way, followers of the Jesus Christ i know. and if they choose not to listen to someone because of how they look. it's just a way for them to have an excuse to not listen.
these "christians" will blind themselves intentionally no matter who presents them with this truth. the only way they will hear is if they open their hearts. no matter who is speaking to them or how he or she LOOKS
Run4TheRabid 2 years ago 9
@Run4TheRabid To your comment about how someone looks as a reason not to listen to him: if I may say, that's a bit naive. No one has unlimited time. Thus, there are certain personal traits at which one might look and conclude, "Not interested." Granted, one may not reason, "He is ugly, therefore he is wrong." However, one may reason, "His appearance reflects a certain spirit in which I have no interest."
purereligion127 1 year ago
He makes a lot of good points. But it is just such a mistake that he choses to look like that. No main-streem or fundamentalist christian will listen to or take serious any one who looks like that. Looking like that he can make all the cleaver points he wishes but only those who allready agree will listen. Those who do not agree will discard him as soon as they see him and that is just too bad...
Espinozaize 2 years ago
hey Espinozaize,
God is much stronger than to force of goodlooking,
And if christians deny him by the single fact of his looks they deny jesus for the single fact of his looks or standards, jesus was a homeless
amortvigil 2 years ago
I watched and didn't even notice he had weird hair until I came down to the comments and read yours. I'm a pastor in a "main-streem" church. Most people today don't give a rat's ass anymore what a person looks like or how they dress. That is the superficiality that almost killed Christianity.
osunbooks 2 years ago
If that kind of superficiality almost have killed Christianity. Does this not indicate that it is a factor you should take quite seriously. So that when you like Claibourne try to spread a controversial message. You make sure that your message is the primary thing in focus & distractions like a radical leftwhing appearence should be avoided. Unless of course you think what he says about homosexuality & christendom is not viewed in many christian cirles as leftist blasphemy?
Espinozaize 2 years ago
You will always be able to find something to disagree with if that's what you want. You have to understand that it's not about what the world thinks of us. I.e. it's a mistake he looks like that. It's about what God is doing. God's plan will not be even slightly hindered by his looks, in fact, Shane Is even more capable then I to relate to the homeless people and drug addicts. God will use you for His purpose no matter what. He has before and will continuedoing so.
Stretch427 2 years ago
I'm sure they -- the fundamentalists of Jesus' day -- said exactly the same thing about Christ.
narls69 2 years ago
Said what: That in order to communicate effectively with & thus persuade a greater number of the opposition. It is important not to appear as the incarnation of their prejudice & preconceived notions? Well they would be right would they not. As Jesus did not chose to come to the jews in the Roman middle east: Dressed as a Roman. The point beeing that when Claiborne chose to look like an ultra liberal hippie. His message will be lost on a lot of the people he wishes to persuade.