Agreed with quicksilver3x3, whilst in modern witmes this is regarded as extremely inhumane and cruel, Pavlov had actually discovered an extremely important factor in psychology today, which has been applied to many things, ranging from systematic desensitisation to cognitive behavioural therapy. Its a shame that his good intentions are marred by inhumane behaviour.
Pavlov the great pioneer of classical conditioning is getting bashed on by simplistic views of modern ethics because of experimentation's that were regular of his time period. You people need to sort out your priorities.
Just because we CAN do a thing doesn't mean we SHOULD do a thing.
To see animals with holes carved out of their heads (and kids too) makes me pretty angry. Who really gives a shit if a dog salivates when a bell rings ?
Yes, I don't need to experiment on animals to know that the media/and government tries to elicit certain responses from me all the time. I've heard about all kinds of horrible experiments in which defenseless animals are sprayed in the face with a toxic substance.
Very interesting. I learned about Pavlov's dog + bell experiment numerous times throughout college-- but I never knew about his other experiments. Seems cruel, but most of early science was cruel and that was normal at the time.
This level of stupidity, cruelty, insanity, and degradation of humanity is unparalleled. Of course anyone who tortures dogs will torture small helpless people if they can get away with it. To reward such criminality and sickness shows how lowdown the human species actually is. He could have simply demonstrated his idiotic points using himself and his cronies. But it wasn't about that, it was about a sadist having control over others; he and his kind are the ones to be "studied" and locked up.
@quicksilver3x3 You completely ignore the great advances Pavlov made in Physiology and Psychology that are fundamental today in these fields. It was accomplished trough brutal and by today's standards, immoral experimentation. Still it is one of the many sacrifices made to advance human knowledge, whether it is justified or not I can't answer. I still believe Pavlov should rather me remembered for his great contributions than his immoral experimentation.
@megarachnid Ignore the deliberate torture of animals and children by a so-called scientist? ...No...
Pavlov was a sick, sadistic, egomaniac who contributed nothing except deep shame on humanity. Today's standards are no better as long as animals remain in lab cages, used for the heartless, pseudoscientific, bottomless money pit called "animal research."
Justice will arrive someday, then all these excuses for evil will be silenced, permanently.
1 - Pavlov did his experiments not for enjoyment but to make contributions to and advance his fields of science.
So by that definition he was not exactly a sadist nor an egomaniac.
2- According to you Physiology and Psychology are pseudo-scienses?
3- He contributed "nothing"...? You are utterly wrong. He pioneered classical conditioning and psychological behaviorism, both of which are cornerstones of modern psychology. That's not to mention his contributions to physiology.
@megarachnid The ones who should be studied are the sadistic psychopaths in the lab coats. Therein lies a fountain of disturbing knowledge that would open the eyes of a lot of people and greatly improve our species by eliminating that monstrous element of it.
@tminustech Actually, yes that was his intention, no normal human being, whether a scientist or not, could do those things he did. I have a video about him if you're interested:
@quicksilver3x3 It's true that they are horrible but what I'm saying is his intentions weren't to hurt people but to improve life in the long run. Things were a lot different back then.
@tminustech Actually, vivisectors have always been the same, from the Dark Ages till now. Check out any video on Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS) for instance. And Pavlov's goal along with the government's was to strictly control people.
I'm sure there could have been other ways to research this in humans instead of going through the same process he did with the dogs. But if it wasn't Pavlov, it would have been someone else. Science is there to figure out how different things work, no matter what they have to do.
And Miscellaneous - there is a big difference between 'there', 'they're' and 'their', also stop spouting rubbish without evidence to back it up - "most pills do more harm than good" - what study are you quoting from? Or are you just pontificating?
PS any smelling pistakes onmy part are entirely purposeful.
You are both crazies. Oasis you are doing a masters in psychology but still write rubbish like "dissolved responsibility". Dissolved! what did he do, put it in a cup of coffee? I think you mean DEVOLVED.
@YourOasis97 You're using a very broad definition of the word "psychopath." There is so much more to it than that. And I'm sure Pavlov had a sense of dissolved responsibility, as he was simply following where science led him. There are much worse people than Pavlov who aren't psychopaths, and there are people who are much better than you or I who are also psychopaths. Psychopath doesn't mean evil.
@miscellaneousness clearly you haven't read political ponerology then. psychopath is evil. their dangerous people. i'm not using a broad definition, that's what they are. because they know no shame, guilt, regret, or pain therefore they can do as they please. they can appear to be charming, but their great tricksters. how can you be so sure he was "responsible?" were you there? he was following his morbid curiosity&curiosity killed the cat you know?
@YourOasis97 I never said he was "responsible" - quite the opposite. I said he probably had dissolved responsibility. I'm doing a masters in Psychology, so I know what I'm talking about. Politics ponerology doesn't mean anything, and you're wrong about psychopaths being evil and dangerous people. Everyone has the potential to be dangerous. What is evil? Really? Why because someone has no guilt or remorse are they evil? They haven't necessarily done anything.
@miscellaneousness true but because of that basic human emotion they are more prone to do "evil" deeds which normal human beings with a conscience wouldn't. "Chances are, there is a psychopath in the high end of the company you work for." I know that. I used the curiosity killed the cat phrase because it's called common sense. "Psychopaths do well in business because they can adapt quickly and do not feel guilt for doing their job e.g. firing people." OR claw their way up by stepping on them
@nurtureyourchild hey!im not a psychopath but i study psychology.its not fair to stereotype all people who study psychology like that,thats very narrow minded
@miscellaneousness i bet those children&dogs were destroyed for life and for that he won a prize? i'm sorry but i can't agree with you there. to me that's a crime, not science. usually the worse people are psychopathic. i;m sure there were worse people than him but that does not justify what he did.
"and there are people who are much better than you or I who are also psychopaths." - that doesn't make any sense.
@YourOasis97 Medicine today wouldn't be where it is if all researchers had your morals. And of course it makes sense, psychopaths are all around us almost every day if you live in a big city. Chances are, there is a psychopath in the high end of the company you work for. Psychopaths do well in business because they can adapt quickly and do not feel guilt for doing their job e.g. firing people. Many psychopaths have families and fit in to society. It is a minority who are serial killers.
@miscellaneousness Exactly, their everywhere even in companies and politics, medicine, science, etc. Psychopaths thrive on a society like ours where they can take advantage of innocent people and do what they will with no remorse. Their not just serial killers you know, that's my whole point. They can hire others to do the dirty work for them. I hope you know that. They can manipulate others, exploit them, extort them, with no remorse. That is more dangerous than the outright killers.
@miscellaneousness BECAUSE they can fit into society pretty well and on the outside appear to be like the rest of us when they are not. As for medicine, I hope you know most pills do more harm than good. So what did it give us apart from surgery which is great, I concede that. But were talking about Pavlov's morbid curiosity of the mind, how he can condition or control people's minds. WHY would he need to know that? Maybe to use his discoveries against a whole populace by those in power?
@YourOasis97 Using phrases like "curiosity killed the cat" doesn't make your point true. And to answer your question earlier, yes I would have treated a dog and a child like that. Painkillers and antibiotics wouldn't exist if animals and humans weren't treated badly at some point. But millions of people have benefited from it. Who are the real evil people?
@miscellaneousness mind you, i never used the word evil, nor did I call him or anyone else that, you did. Political Ponerology is biased for a very good reason and backs up it's claims. So you would do that to kids and dogs, eh? Goes to show were total opposites as people. My point is why can't some people leave well enough? The more curiosity we as humans have, in this case morbid to me, the more we become like monsters.
Education without Ethics is Evil
GlobalDuty 2 weeks ago
Agreed with quicksilver3x3, whilst in modern witmes this is regarded as extremely inhumane and cruel, Pavlov had actually discovered an extremely important factor in psychology today, which has been applied to many things, ranging from systematic desensitisation to cognitive behavioural therapy. Its a shame that his good intentions are marred by inhumane behaviour.
Iamthisbored1 1 month ago
@Iamthisbored1 agreed with xolette sorry.
Iamthisbored1 1 month ago
Pavlov the great pioneer of classical conditioning is getting bashed on by simplistic views of modern ethics because of experimentation's that were regular of his time period. You people need to sort out your priorities.
MrNotinSpecial 2 months ago
If this were my Son, that "Scientist" would be a dead man.
Greg763 4 months ago
Just because we CAN do a thing doesn't mean we SHOULD do a thing.
To see animals with holes carved out of their heads (and kids too) makes me pretty angry. Who really gives a shit if a dog salivates when a bell rings ?
Yes, I don't need to experiment on animals to know that the media/and government tries to elicit certain responses from me all the time. I've heard about all kinds of horrible experiments in which defenseless animals are sprayed in the face with a toxic substance.
Greg763 4 months ago
Implaying this guy for My ap psych project...
killercomes 5 months ago
Very interesting. I learned about Pavlov's dog + bell experiment numerous times throughout college-- but I never knew about his other experiments. Seems cruel, but most of early science was cruel and that was normal at the time.
Xolette 6 months ago 4
though i must also point out that i don't agree with this research,its very wrong
Rockaliscious13 6 months ago
This level of stupidity, cruelty, insanity, and degradation of humanity is unparalleled. Of course anyone who tortures dogs will torture small helpless people if they can get away with it. To reward such criminality and sickness shows how lowdown the human species actually is. He could have simply demonstrated his idiotic points using himself and his cronies. But it wasn't about that, it was about a sadist having control over others; he and his kind are the ones to be "studied" and locked up.
quicksilver3x3 6 months ago 2
@quicksilver3x3 You completely ignore the great advances Pavlov made in Physiology and Psychology that are fundamental today in these fields. It was accomplished trough brutal and by today's standards, immoral experimentation. Still it is one of the many sacrifices made to advance human knowledge, whether it is justified or not I can't answer. I still believe Pavlov should rather me remembered for his great contributions than his immoral experimentation.
megarachnid 4 months ago
@megarachnid Ignore the deliberate torture of animals and children by a so-called scientist? ...No...
Pavlov was a sick, sadistic, egomaniac who contributed nothing except deep shame on humanity. Today's standards are no better as long as animals remain in lab cages, used for the heartless, pseudoscientific, bottomless money pit called "animal research."
Justice will arrive someday, then all these excuses for evil will be silenced, permanently.
quicksilver3x3 4 months ago
@quicksilver3x3 Ok...
1 - Pavlov did his experiments not for enjoyment but to make contributions to and advance his fields of science.
So by that definition he was not exactly a sadist nor an egomaniac.
2- According to you Physiology and Psychology are pseudo-scienses?
3- He contributed "nothing"...? You are utterly wrong. He pioneered classical conditioning and psychological behaviorism, both of which are cornerstones of modern psychology. That's not to mention his contributions to physiology.
megarachnid 4 months ago
@megarachnid The ones who should be studied are the sadistic psychopaths in the lab coats. Therein lies a fountain of disturbing knowledge that would open the eyes of a lot of people and greatly improve our species by eliminating that monstrous element of it.
quicksilver3x3 4 months ago
@quicksilver3x3 Your argument being?
megarachnid 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@megarachnid
If you are going to start talking about definitions...
In the world of ethics and morality, do you believe what he did was correct?
narsicle 2 months ago
@quicksilver3x3 Get over it. Cookies are delicious, and those kids volunteered. Look how happy they are when the thingy goes off! OHM NOM NOM!
CARR0TCAKESUCKS 2 months ago
@quicksilver3x3 I understand where you are coming from but you should understand this man wasn't just some idiot. Hid intentions weren't torture.
tminustech 2 months ago
@tminustech Actually, yes that was his intention, no normal human being, whether a scientist or not, could do those things he did. I have a video about him if you're interested:
watch?v=Yu2I56Yg9u0
quicksilver3x3 1 month ago
@quicksilver3x3 It's true that they are horrible but what I'm saying is his intentions weren't to hurt people but to improve life in the long run. Things were a lot different back then.
tminustech 1 month ago
@tminustech Actually, vivisectors have always been the same, from the Dark Ages till now. Check out any video on Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS) for instance. And Pavlov's goal along with the government's was to strictly control people.
quicksilver3x3 1 month ago
I'm sure there could have been other ways to research this in humans instead of going through the same process he did with the dogs. But if it wasn't Pavlov, it would have been someone else. Science is there to figure out how different things work, no matter what they have to do.
AutumnxxSacrifice 7 months ago
this is fucking disgusting
gunnersaurus012 8 months ago
wow what a dick... i did a report on this guy and didnt know this... i would not have picked him :P
ShackletonAndFriends 10 months ago
WHAT'S THE MUSIC IN BEGININ' ?! :D
SkollDrum 10 months ago
this is scary. 0-o
NinjasAreSoCoolLike 11 months ago
in this experiment,the child is fed cookies from a tube
dannyofthededd 11 months ago
And Miscellaneous - there is a big difference between 'there', 'they're' and 'their', also stop spouting rubbish without evidence to back it up - "most pills do more harm than good" - what study are you quoting from? Or are you just pontificating?
PS any smelling pistakes onmy part are entirely purposeful.
manjiajk 11 months ago
You are both crazies. Oasis you are doing a masters in psychology but still write rubbish like "dissolved responsibility". Dissolved! what did he do, put it in a cup of coffee? I think you mean DEVOLVED.
manjiajk 11 months ago
I don't care if morality has anything to do with science or not, in this case it has everything to do with it because what he did was inhumane!
YourOasis97 1 year ago
Pavlov was a scientist, morality doesn't come into it. He definitely wasn't a psychopath.
miscellaneousness 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness so you think it's okay to treat a dog and a child like this just out of CURIOSITY to see what happens?
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness a psychopath has no feelings or remorse about subjecting others to pain. so therefore, he was.
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@YourOasis97 You're using a very broad definition of the word "psychopath." There is so much more to it than that. And I'm sure Pavlov had a sense of dissolved responsibility, as he was simply following where science led him. There are much worse people than Pavlov who aren't psychopaths, and there are people who are much better than you or I who are also psychopaths. Psychopath doesn't mean evil.
miscellaneousness 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness clearly you haven't read political ponerology then. psychopath is evil. their dangerous people. i'm not using a broad definition, that's what they are. because they know no shame, guilt, regret, or pain therefore they can do as they please. they can appear to be charming, but their great tricksters. how can you be so sure he was "responsible?" were you there? he was following his morbid curiosity&curiosity killed the cat you know?
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@YourOasis97 I never said he was "responsible" - quite the opposite. I said he probably had dissolved responsibility. I'm doing a masters in Psychology, so I know what I'm talking about. Politics ponerology doesn't mean anything, and you're wrong about psychopaths being evil and dangerous people. Everyone has the potential to be dangerous. What is evil? Really? Why because someone has no guilt or remorse are they evil? They haven't necessarily done anything.
miscellaneousness 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness true but because of that basic human emotion they are more prone to do "evil" deeds which normal human beings with a conscience wouldn't. "Chances are, there is a psychopath in the high end of the company you work for." I know that. I used the curiosity killed the cat phrase because it's called common sense. "Psychopaths do well in business because they can adapt quickly and do not feel guilt for doing their job e.g. firing people." OR claw their way up by stepping on them
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness
I know it's said that budding psychopaths study psychology, now it seems you have proved the point; thank you.
nurtureyourchild 1 year ago
@nurtureyourchild hey!im not a psychopath but i study psychology.its not fair to stereotype all people who study psychology like that,thats very narrow minded
Rockaliscious13 6 months ago
@miscellaneousness i bet those children&dogs were destroyed for life and for that he won a prize? i'm sorry but i can't agree with you there. to me that's a crime, not science. usually the worse people are psychopathic. i;m sure there were worse people than him but that does not justify what he did.
"and there are people who are much better than you or I who are also psychopaths." - that doesn't make any sense.
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@YourOasis97 Medicine today wouldn't be where it is if all researchers had your morals. And of course it makes sense, psychopaths are all around us almost every day if you live in a big city. Chances are, there is a psychopath in the high end of the company you work for. Psychopaths do well in business because they can adapt quickly and do not feel guilt for doing their job e.g. firing people. Many psychopaths have families and fit in to society. It is a minority who are serial killers.
miscellaneousness 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness Exactly, their everywhere even in companies and politics, medicine, science, etc. Psychopaths thrive on a society like ours where they can take advantage of innocent people and do what they will with no remorse. Their not just serial killers you know, that's my whole point. They can hire others to do the dirty work for them. I hope you know that. They can manipulate others, exploit them, extort them, with no remorse. That is more dangerous than the outright killers.
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness BECAUSE they can fit into society pretty well and on the outside appear to be like the rest of us when they are not. As for medicine, I hope you know most pills do more harm than good. So what did it give us apart from surgery which is great, I concede that. But were talking about Pavlov's morbid curiosity of the mind, how he can condition or control people's minds. WHY would he need to know that? Maybe to use his discoveries against a whole populace by those in power?
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@YourOasis97 Using phrases like "curiosity killed the cat" doesn't make your point true. And to answer your question earlier, yes I would have treated a dog and a child like that. Painkillers and antibiotics wouldn't exist if animals and humans weren't treated badly at some point. But millions of people have benefited from it. Who are the real evil people?
miscellaneousness 1 year ago
@miscellaneousness mind you, i never used the word evil, nor did I call him or anyone else that, you did. Political Ponerology is biased for a very good reason and backs up it's claims. So you would do that to kids and dogs, eh? Goes to show were total opposites as people. My point is why can't some people leave well enough? The more curiosity we as humans have, in this case morbid to me, the more we become like monsters.
YourOasis97 1 year ago
@YourOasis97 And just to be clear, political ponerology is a very biased book.
miscellaneousness 1 year ago
Pavlov was an obvious Psychopath.
AFFILIATIONQC 1 year ago
This guy is sick - he says, ohhh that's horrible...BUT...
chase82 1 year ago