Breeders Cup Classic 2008 - Ravens Pass Wins, Curlin Only 4th

[garethella]

too easy, ravens pass and henrythenavigator were superstars.

[ASupremeOwl]

Just brilliant, Made this american commentator look an absolute muppet when the Europeans just breezed past the drugged up Curlin!

[JackNavin092]

Who trained Ravens Pass?

[192490]

@JackNavin092 John Gosden...

[ajump08]

Raven's Pass was best this day, buy in all the duels with Henrythenavigator, it was simply the horse that made the first run that won, including this race. In my mind they were equal in talent all year (exclude breeders cup), it was more of the jockey who moved on their mount first.

[danylson10]

If this is race is on dirt, Curlin wins period, Dirt is what makes a horse a champion, turf is nice but it takes a better more conditioned and powerful horse to win a dirt race. Just try it, run on dirt in the beach and then run on grass? what is harder to run??of Course the dirt!!!

[dessiesdoneit]

@danylson10 It takes a plodder to win on Dirt, we prefer the natural ability and class of the turf horse. Its their natural surface anyway.

[192490]

@danylson10 Listen mate, European racing is and will always be the top of the tree when it comes to standard of racing in the world. It takes more of a true champion to win on turf since there is that many different types of surface on turf, Dirt is just dirt! Just like 'amateur' american racing....

[lutonclaret]

Brilliant commentary, the US commentator getting carried away with Curlin as though we've never sene anything like it before Europe's leftovers brush him to one side.

[MANUTD4LIFE171]

@lutonclaret Loved the commentary aswell mate! the commentator is made to look so stupid, with his bias towards Curlin!"" Look at him go", he wasnt saying look at him go about Ravens Pass when he breezed by him. Never get tired of watching Ravens Pass and Henrythenavigator battles, both were such great horses! and i think it was only when we seen them go 1-2 in this race that we realsised just how good this pair had been, battling it out over a mile with each other all season

[jediknightjohnny123]

curlin had a long year.. and i believe the track effected his performance.. a horse has to work harder to move across a synthetic surface.. had it been a dirt track curlin would have been more of a threat.. i mean even though he finished fourth. he completed the mile and a quarter in 2 minutes flat. thats still very fast and not many horses cun run it that fast of a time.. and tiago ran an abstolute hard fought 3rd place. very good day for him too

[MartinWilliams38]

I was on Ravens Pass at 10/1. Nice one ...

[peepingfawn1]

Ravens Pass 1 - Curlin 0

How much did the commentator bum Curlin.

The English and Irish horses showed how average he may be, just based on that 1 run mind.

On another day it might have been different.

But i do believe that Ravens Pass was the top horse in the field. His price was stupid

[marc19ar]

Curlin all the way....

what a great champion

he won HOY - twice(2007-2008)

champion older horse(2008)

champion three old(2007)

[FireStrater]

lets chat

great vid tF

[alanoshea3210]

the european horses out classed curlin as was expected,because hes not the horse he was made out to be he was good but not great

[sheva7anto]

Baring d fact that he has beaten Ravens Pass more times den he was defeated, how he has beaten New Approach on time of asking, d fact dat he was running on a new surface, in warmer conditions n over a loner trip (dat hes never done b4) n also d fact dat Johnny picked d wrong horse, Henrythenavigator is the Best! No offence 2 Velaquez, he gave Henry a great last ride. But if Johnny Murtagh had of been on Henry, he wud hav won it. He knows the horse inside out. Gonna miss Henry, my fav Horse Ever!

[creaturelover]

Great, great race! kudos to the first four finishes!! Ravens Pass was just AMAZING!!!!! BEAUTIFUL late kick!!!!! Henry and Tiago ran also ran amazing races! And Curlin ran his best, but every horse loses. Look at Secretariat, Cigar, Man O War, Phar Lap. He just wasn't good enough that particular day.

[bg147]

Denman's race call of Curlin was brutal, he was gushing and gushing. It was so obvious that he was getting hung out to dry, I thought he had a shot for a total of 2 seconds.

[shaffi1]

Ravens has beaten the best horses around over a distance he's never attempted, he's actually running away from them! I hope he does go for the Dubai world cup and thumps them all AGAIN! I'm tired of reading excuses for Curlin! There were other very good beaten horses in the field(all disadvantaged by the ground ???) Just accept the fact they lost to a better horse! take defeat with a bit more grace and show some appreciation for the winner!

[sporovic75]

i think that on dirt the result would be different , i am not curlin fan but i think this change of surface can be an excuse for curlin

[sporovic75]

lets see curlin vs ravens pass on dubai world cup on dirt

[ashado19]

I agree with you. I believe he would have done better on dirt.

[creaturelover]

Agreed, Curlin did his best work and form on the dirt. He kudos to Jackson and Assmusen for running him despite their despising the track, it really added to the BC!

[amazed66]

Raven's and Henry were trying the surface for the first time ever and also the distance for the first time ever too, so they had plenty disadvatages to overcome if you also include they had to travel over and to race in much warmer temperatures than were currently at home for them.

[Nautilus1972]

Curlin ? Well done to Raven's pass on the day, beating Henrythenavigator. But consider this. English 2000 guineas 1.Henry 2.New Approach. Ravens Pass ? Nowhere. Irish 2000 guineas - 1. Henry 2. New Approach. Ravens Pass 5th.

Henry hammered Ravens Pass in the St. James. Ravens beats Henry in the QE II. In the Sussex stakes Henry again beat Raven's pass. Ravens beats Henry in the Breeders. 4-2 to Henry, allowing that the Breeders came at the end of a long, hard season on a new surface for both.

[shaffi1]

Ravens didn't even run in the Irish 2000!!!

In most of his races prior to the QE11 Ravens was set rediculous tasks giving Henry first run, bearing in mind that henry is an above average Guineas winner! However, i think Ravens has strengthened more as the season has progressed and has thrived off his races!

Ravens and Henry are probably the best milers we've had for a good few years!

[dessiesdoneit]

on the other page u said spencer gave ravens pass exagerated hol up rides but hes never sat on the horse. zarkava would beat them both over a mile and goldikova would certainly give them a race. new approach would have ran them into the ground over 1m2

[amazed66]

New Approach won a poor Derby and probably wouldn't have even won that but for barging his way to get a run up the inside rail, since then has only won against sub standard horses and has been firmly put in his place in a true Group 1 races behind the likes of Duke of Marmalade and that horse finished well beaten here.

[dessiesdoneit]

it was the way he won the derby m8 after pulling the arms of manning for half a mile and still being able to win comfortably. he was head and shoulders above everything at 2(undisputable) got beat a shd in the guineas by a top miler when cryin out for a trip. then got injured after the derby. comeback run ran 3rd behind the duke then won the irish champ in bottomless ground then won the champ at newmarket. regardless of opposition which was top group 2 at best he broke the track record.

[amazed66]

If he won after pulling so hard, doesn't that say something about the standard of horses he beat? New Approach is a good horse but what else has come out of The Derby and shown anything? Those behind finished in in a heap in the Irish Derby & the only other winners to come out of the race are 2 O'Brien horses winning maidens. If O'Brien has multiple runners in The Derby it's because he's not got a good one, not like when he ran Galileo to win or High Chapparal & Hawk Wing to come 1st & 2nd.

[dessiesdoneit]

tartan bearer, doctor freemantle and casual conquest are good horses. mite not be top class but u could say what did henry beat in the guineas then.a middle distance horse a shd and a few lenghts to STUBBS ART!!! is that not lesser opposition? ravens pass finished 10 lengths behind new approach in the dewhurst and well behind in the guineas. new approach is the champion to me but we never got to see how good he was

[shaffi1]

As far as the Guineas goes Ravens was ridden out the back door, and did well to finish where he did! New Approach is a 10-12 furlong horse no question probably the latter. Personally i think Zarkava is the pick of the 3 year olds at 10-12f .The Duke had certainly had enough in the BC, however! Ravens was the best horse on the day! I doubt he'd get the distance on turf but he could prove us wrong! He wasn't being caught at the end!and he is improving all the time, be interesting next year!

[amazed66]

Apart from a heap finish in the Irish Derby, what has any horse behind New Arroach in The Derby done since? Maybe Henry's wasn't the strongest Guineas but he beat the top milers after that. Raven's is a fast ground horse & it was good to soft in the Dewhurst & he finshed 3L behind NA btw. All this season Raven's was ridden from behind as if he didn't get a mile but got closer to Henry each time until they were convinced he got it & was ridden more handy & then lost by a hd & then beat him.

[dessiesdoneit]

what top milers has henry beat apart from ravens pass??? tamyuz clearly never ran his race at ascot.

[amazed66]

Henry beat top milers currently around at the time, in the St James Palace/Sussex stakes, if they were a poor bunch, you can only beat what turns up on the day. You say apart from Raven's but he is a top miler too & won this race here so even if they were the ONLY 2 in the race, that's still top form. Why is it too that if I say New Approach beat nothing in The Derby you say they were good horses but anytime a horse I mention beats something, the other horses somehow didn't run their races?

[dessiesdoneit]

you must think twice over and major cadeux are top milers ? we can argue all day but its hard to compare a miler to a middle distance horse. i think new approach is the better horse u think ravens pass lets end it at that.

[amazed66]

Didn't Twice Over run well behind first Tartan Bearer and then your great horse New Approach? New Approach struggled to beat Pipedreamer and that was a handicapper winning the Cambridgeshire the year before and hasn't won a race since. I wasn't really making a judgement about which was the better horse, only that I feel New Approach is overrated and hasn't beaten anything of note as a 3 YO over further than a mile. Racing's all about opinions though so we can agree to disagreed then. :)

[dessiesdoneit]

pipedreamer won a group 2 if ud check ure form m8 when did new approach struggle to beat it? on its comeback run from a bad injury(the same day the duke beat it) look what it dun to pipedreamer in the champion stakes when fully fit(although still not the same horse who won the derby)

[dessiesdoneit]

how many ppl cant realise the duke was long dun for the season.u seen that in the arc. new approach would destroy the duke over 1m4 fucks sake, papal bull ran it to a half length. the duke is a brilliant horse and a battler. but new approach has that bit extra special and as tough as they come too. a rite character ofa horse anaw. hes the champion. i dont care what anybody says he had the most potential of any horse in europe bar zarkava. a pity we only seen him over his optimum trip 1m4 once.

[amazed66]

I thought Duke ran well in the Arc and when he beat Papal Bull the time was 2 seconds faster than standard. He also has Youmzain 9L behind that day and that's one's finished 2nd twice in the Arc. I wouldn't agree that a mile and a half was New Approch's best trip either, it's just his class allowed him to beat lesser horses over that trip and who's to say Henry or Raven's wouldn't have beaten that Derby field too, as neither looked like they were stopping in this race here.

[dessiesdoneit]

youmzain never ran his race and it wis like a road that day.ravens pass wouldnt stay 1m4 in a horse box.neither would henry or else obrien would have went for the derby. new approach is by gallileo(1m4) out of park express(1m4), sumhow i think hes bred to be at his best over 1m4.u say lesser horses m8? what about tiago who finished a few lengths behind ravens pass.the best horse in the race ran a stone below his best becuase he didnt handle the surface. so wit else have the 2 good milers beat?

[amazed66]

Assuming Youzamain didn't run his race (& I'm not giving that) Duke still finished 9L ahead in a Grp1. Ask was 11½L behind in 5th & yet only 3¾L 6th behind Zarkava in the Arc. Those saying Raven's/Henry wouldn't stay 1½M would have probably said they wouldn't stay 1¼M in this race too. Whenever I've mentioned "beating lesser horses" I meant New Approach's Derby but you say they were good horses, but then ask what else did Raven's/Henry beat here? Raven's went out wide & still won going away.

[dessiesdoneit]

what is it ure getting at m8, new approach is the superior animal. i dont care what u say. ravens pass is a class miler who seems to have improved beyond henrythenavigator as the season progressed. alrite the derby form has hardly been franked, but on the day the first two pulled well clear of a good horse i causual conquest. tarten bearer would have won the irish derby but for the biggest tactical play in the history of racing. no1 Zarkava no2 New Approach no3 Duke of marmalade best 3 in europe

[amazed66]

Ravan's Pass is a good mile and a quarter horse too now. Even if Tartan Bearer won the Irish Derby, they still finished in a heap of 5 and nothing stood out from the rest.

[dessiesdoneit]

am no sayin twice overs a bad horse but neither is taran bearer. we had 3 top class 3yo in britain this year. new approach ravens pass and henry. ppl are gawnny have there favourites and maybe im biased to new approach as i won a fortune of him in the derby( had every penny on it bar a few quid for a pint) and had a brilliant day cause of him. but even without that i think hes an absolute machine and without the injury he would be undisputable champ. but well never know.

[illgou999]

no new approach peaked goldikova woudnt make the trip but zarkava woud have given them a BIG dual

[dessiesdoneit]

a duel??? zarkava would have gave them a start and beat them on the bit.

[illgou999]

no. she wasnt bred for dirt or pro ride but with her ability she woud still run well

[dessiesdoneit]

dosent matter what shes bred for she would have beat that field 2 or 3 lenghts on the bit

[illgou999]

no she woudnt ravens pass woud have won by a nose

[makadeni]

zarkava's one amazing animal. would have pissed this, shame raven's pass retired, he showed a lot of improvement towards the end of the season

[tigerboy1966]

Form lines through Duke of Marmalade suggest otherwise, 4 lengths behind Zarkava in Arc: 6 lengths behind Raven's Pass in BC Classic.

[dessiesdoneit]

why am i not a millionaire......cause it dosent work like that unfortunately. Firstly, u cant compare form from two different countries at two different trips...ffffff. Secondly, u cant use a horse who was well over the top before france, nevermind america, as a solid formline. fuckin amatuers. wake up m8 ull never see a better filly than zarkava, she was a freak and all due respect to ravans pass, top horse who improved all year, theres just no way he would have beat that wonderfilly

[Nautilus1972]

You are right Shaffi - Ravens Pass did not take part in the Irish guineas. It was just before bedtime I wrote that! But I'm with dessiedoneit - the perfect race would have involved New Approach to end all discussions. Meaning Curlin would have finished further back in 5th !! Henry had the measure of both Ravens and New Approach over a mile, but Approach won the derby. Would have been a cracker

[MichaelDominici]

Synthetic surface. It's a game changer and European horses bred for the turf seem to do well on the surface as they proved at Santa Anita.

[Barbaro2012]

i absolutly hate Curlin. Once he's actually put to a test he fails. Way to go Raven's Pass. Curlin simply can't compete with better horses like Raven's Pass, Henrythenavigator, Rags to Riches and Tiago

[shaffi1]

Well i'm sure Curlin's connections thought the same thing !with regards to BB!  as they say! you gotta be in it, to win it ! We can speculate till our ears drop off, we have a deserved winner and I think Ravens Pass is a damned good horse! John Gosden should take some credit for being brave enough to send his horse to take on the mighty Curlin!

[dessiesdoneit]

to be fair to curlin, hes a recovering junkie. been goin cold turkey without they steroids for a while now.

[shaffi1]

In the QE11 the pace was red hot, and Ravens settled really well, just as he did here!and he's bolted in! I'm not convinced a faster early pace would have made a difference! Ravens is running away from them, it's not as though he's holding on at the line ! Ravens just might be better than we are giving him cedit for.

[dessiesdoneit]

fair point but had that been say, the prince of wales and they went that gallop. would ravens pass have won then? to me he could never win a top mile n a quarter race in britain. mite be wrong, but in all honesty i think curlin has run at least half a stone below his best dirt form

[shaffi1]

Im sure we'll fnd out if he stays in training next year! As for Curlin, may be past his peak, do you think? regardless of the pace or lack of it, the surface was the same for all horses and it was Ravens first run on that too! so best horse won! without a doubt!

[shaffi1]

Ravens has beaten the best mile horses around, and thumped Curlin for good measure!

think he's done enough for this year.

Hope he's not whisked off to stud.

[dessiesdoneit]

is the japan cup 1m4f??? if it is then ravans pass would finish stone last.ravans pass wouldnt stay a mile n a half on a train and even if its 1m2f there will be a real gallop on and ravans pass wont be able to finish like it did last nite. its bred to get not much further than a mile and if u remember the guineas they were riding him to try and get the fuckin mile. the horse would never win a group 1 mile n a quarter race in britain.

[amazed66]

He didn't look like he was stopping here to me? LOL

[shaffi1]

Ravens has been on the go since spring! goes and thumps Curlin and co in their own back yard, and yet! rather than give the horse the credit he deserves we have bitterballs like sikcaesar making pathetic excuses! Curlin is champion no doubt, but he met more than his match and was beaten fair and square! Pride is a bitch to swallow! so just hold your nose and down it! siklooooser!

[krisstruss]

sikcaesar,you sound like a very bitter man,just accept that horses lose races as well as win,also we were running horses on turf before dirt.

[Tykes2008]

Ravens pass is a quality horse it as run well all year it showed a great turn of foot to beat henry curlin only fourth a hope mr gosden does take it to japan to run and beat curlin again

[sikcaesar]

...They are horses. Fighters. Warriors. You run them on the lawn like they are hobby pets. They should get dirt in their eyes. Mud in their face. The racing is totally different. You guys race rolling courses and non-existent turns. You breed for it. How many Peintre Celebre colts are running in the States? 5? 10? Why don't you come here and show us how good yours are in real conditions? Oh, wait. You did. George Washington. Where's he? Oops. "What a champion." On mowed lawns.

[Nautilus1972]

With respect sikcaesar, it is unfair to speak as if George Washington traveled to America and 'failed'. He tragically broke his ankle and was put down. He was a monster of a horse. When he won the English 2000 Guineas he beat the subsequent Derby winner Sir Percy by 2 1/2 lengths. And again, how many American horses do we see come over and race us on *real* racing ground. The oldest racing ground in the world. Turf. We've been racing horses since before the birth of your young country.

[milram17]

@Nautilus1972

you know what i would love to see American horses go over there and win!!

[192490]

@milram17 It wouldn't happen, European racing is and will always be the best standard in the world...

[sikcaesar]

Whoever thinks Big Brown could compete against these monsters is insane. Curlin weighs four tons and basically ran 2:00 for 1 1/4 miles. I'd love to see Gosden be a man and take his little prissy speedster turf horse to Japan and run in the dirt and filth in the Japan Cup Dirt. You Europeans have this ridiculous class ideal about running on grass. This is American thoroughbred racing. I can't believe we caved in and gave you string rubber to run your soft "covered-style" turfees on.

[TheseWordsAreMyOwN]

These American rags are drugged up with regular injections of the anabolic steroid 'Winstrol'.

It was brilliant to see the European superstars beat these fakers at their own game.

Curlin looked as muscular as a bull here, and that is just not naturally possible. Ravens Pass on the other hand showed true class and style and proved that drugs aren't needed to be the best in the world.

I for one would love top see Ravens Pass take part in the Japan cup.

[garethella]

@TheseWordsAreMyOwN spot on.

[dessiesdoneit]

use fuckin pussy americans go on about fractions and speed ratings. if they worked us wood aw be millionaires and therd be no bookies. class, toughness, ability to stay and ability to quicken instantly. thats what makes a winner

[coronetxxx]

Well done to Ravens Pass and Dettori a great victory. All in all a great meeting for the european horses. While Curlin has seemed a great horse it does seem that much of his success has been down to the steroids. I do find it strange that while human athletes aren't allowed to take them some of the American Horse Racing administrations allow them.

I also wish the Americans would show a bit more guts and let their horses race in Europe so we can see how good they really are.

[passion4horseracing]

i love curlin so much

im so sad he lost

but hes still so great and he deserves horse of the year

[ashado19]

Curlin always does better on dirt, to bad it was synthetic-probably would have finished better or won

[creepyseth]

big brown would have destroyed that field !!!! he would have run away from them all.

[kalandro14]

now you know that big brown was better than curlin, he would never lose this race..

[TheseWordsAreMyOwN]

Big Brown was a over hyped horse drugged up on steroids, he would be nothing without them. The US drug laws are a disgrace.

[sugarpuppy137]

During his TC races, he was overhyped as being 'great'.

But Big Brown was a very talented horse, and he was getting better and better. You can't say he was nothing, while I believe that Big Brown might have been been out of his league with the likes of Raven's Pass or Henrythenavigator, he definitely could have competed with Curlin.

[dessiesdoneit]

i think big brown would have won m8 with that explosive turn of foot plus he wouldnt have been waiting about at the start like the rest of them

[sugarpuppy137]

Maybe, maybe not. I do know though, that Big Brown wouldn't just stop. If you watch closely you can see Curlin fighting Raven's Pass for a second, and then he stops and lets Henrythenavigator and Tiago by, Big Brown would have never let that happen, he would have fought all the way to the end. That is why I like Big Brown so much better than Curlin, not just because I believe he is greater, but because of his heart, and how much we was willing to give just to put his nose infront.

[TheseWordsAreMyOwN]

I agree with everything you just said. nicely put

[illgou999]

Me too

[sugarpuppy137]

Thank you.

[kalandro14]

so is curlin, did u know that curlin trainer have the most suspension cuz all the steroids he use ..

[okokwhatever]

i feel more sorry for henry than curlin, as he beat ravens pass in alot of small price races but lost twice in 2 big ones! it was a good tactical ride by frankie though!

[amazed66]

I do understand what you mean but I wouldn't say Henry beat Raven's in small prize money races if that's what you mean. He beat him in the Newmarket 2000 Guineas worth £212,887.50, the St James's Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot worth £141,925.00 and the Sussex Stakes worth £170,310.00 but and he still picked up £502,513.00 for finishing 2nd here.

[dessiesdoneit]

look at the heap of horses who finished in behind the two milers.they went no gallop early doors so to me it was a false race

[kieranthebear]

Bollocks. Look at the time of the whole race; quick.

[dessiesdoneit]

u can clearly see they went a crawl for 2 furlongs m8 and effectively turned it into a mile race. which allowed two milers to finish at speed. thats why there wis a good overall time. a dont know about ure fractions pish an aw that but check out the first 2 furlongs of the turf race against the classic and id bet they were very much faster in the turf. and u seen what happened the stamina kicked in and the stayer won. a horse who wouldnt win a top mile n half race over here, no chance

[kieranthebear]

A "false" race can't be run in an overall fast time! Forget the fractions, if the overall time is fast then the race was by definition truly run. I would only set aside such a quick time for the purposes of form analysis if there were traffic problems. There were none.

[dessiesdoneit]

curlin must have been waiting at a red light and ravens pass ran it and took the fine.

[dessiesdoneit]

look at last years race, they dun 1/4 mile in 23 flat lol(american talk) last nite 23.77. last year 3/4 mile 1.10 3/5 last nite 1.11.64 and remember it was in the mud last year. so dont tell me they never went a crawl early doors. the reason for the quick time is cause two milers were allowed to finish full of running. if use went a break neck gallop ravens pass and henry would probably not have lasted home and certainly wouldnt have been able to quicken. curlin would not have been passed. fair?

[sugarpuppy137]

Whoo, Europe has some impressive horses this year O.O

[dessiesdoneit]

our 2 best never even went over. new approach and zarkava

[sugarpuppy137]

I knew Zarkava would whip our horses bad, I just didn't pay much attention to Raven's Pass or Henrythenavigator, suppose I should've.

I haven't heard of New Approach, but if he's better than Raven's Pass, then he's gotta be something pretty great.

[amazed66]

I backed Henry and Ravens Pass in the 2000 Guineas and and backed both in this race too as all season I've not been able to split them. In the Sussex Stakes I backed Ravens Pass to place only and he got so close to overturning the form that I backed him to do it the previous time they met before this. I also backed Conduit and Eagle Mountain earlier too and could not believe when Ballydoyle let go Archipenko and Eagle Mountain, a horse that finished 2nd in The Derby!

[TheseWordsAreMyOwN]

Curlin flew around the final turn, but what an astonishing turn of foot Ravens Pass showed at 150 yards out. He found a whole new gear to leave the rest of the field standing.

Well done to Curlin, but this was Europe's night. Not forgetting Henrythenavigator who also ran a brilliant race to land 2nd.

[lvmakane]

f*ckin s*ckin J*ckin casino drive.

f*ck off!!

[SpyroJunkie]

this was a great race! Curlin tried his best!

[daplaya03]

yeah all credit to curlin he was very gallant in defeat, but what a night for europe.

[SpyroJunkie]

yeah!