u2bmetub, I would suggest that you disappear up your own arse, but such advice is clearly redundant, since you clearly accomplished this contortion some time ago. Perhaps you might reverse course, remove the impacted cack from your ears and realize that while Barere played very fast, he played with clarity and due attention to phrasing. It might not be so obvious "in ano", I suppose. Incidentally, swearing is the last resort of inarticulate motherfuckers. Sweet dreams, my little auto maricon
The Heroic Polonaise aside, I've never cared much for Horowitz's Chopin, indeed most of it appals me, ugly, overbearing and palpably self-conscious. Richter's is another story, though certainly not one devoid of imperfection, at least in my view.
Having heard all of Horowitz's, Gilels' and Richter's renditions of the Liszt Sonata multiple times, I'd rate Barere's higher than any of them, both technically and musically. The same goes for a number of other works that any or all three have recorded such as those referred to in earlier posts.
Sorry but it is NOT fair to compare him to Richter.. nobody could possibly fare well in such a comparison of raw ability, not even Horowitz or Gilels. Barere was a great musician who happened to have an impossible facility for speed and used it to his advantage. Can't hold it against him.
This guy is a complete hack, which is typical for such a schmuck. Plays everything Mach 3, with no care for beauty of tone or any interpretation. I know this idiot who completely worships him, because he is also a hack himself. A computer would interpret better than such subhuman filth.
To "u2bmetub":first of all he's playing live (!!!) which shows his courage and mastery of performance.secondly u r wrong:'this guy' (1 of the most incredible pianists of all times) plays at great speed, true -i also have his version of chopin's 1st ballade- but he has dynamics AND -like it or not-sense of (his own)interpretation.
Is this not an etude? Is this not an etude marked presto furioso? Is this not an etude marked with this exact metronome marking by a student of chopin? So shut the fuck up!
Fattyman: Presto is a relative marking you imbecile. It implies the implementation—upon execution— of musical and aesthetic considerations which certainly should never amount to a derailed circus-like merry-go-round laden with Israeli napalmbent on genocidal destruction. Alas, this is only Chopin, not a bunch of unarmed Palestinian children.
And furthermore you retard, a marking by a "student" is irrelevant. It's not the source you faggot, and let me see you document it. And I don't care even if Chopin himself were to pick such an idiotic and ridiculous tempo. It's still shit, whatever asshole it's coming from. The reality is that above certain tempi, any music will sound like shit and a parody. So you shut the fuck up and blow me! But make sure you blow no less than "presto furioso", you worthless oral concubine.
I hope people don't judge Barere by this recording. It's just somebody trying to play as fast as possible, and slowing down or blurring when it gets harder. The real musician Barere is to be heard in other recordings like the Don Juan Fantasy, Chopin Ballades 1 & 4, the Blumenfeld left hand etude, and particularly the Liszt sonata, where a case can be made for him being up there with Horowitz and Argerich (though for different reasons).
Second of all there are many noticeable mistakes here : blurring, slips, etc... that one hears upon listening closely. Theoretically one could play this in 50 seconds with a million mistakes - based on this line of reasoning this would be an "achievement" in your eyes. By the way, it is not a complete flop (there are worse) but definitely not the top of the top.
The person glorifying this must not play or understand anything about piano. Pollini and Horowitz are far better. First of all they "could" play at that speed.
Looks like Richter is better than Barere, he's got 5 seconds on him.
"Their franticness on display here on a thread that has nothing to do with Horowitz reveals their hatred and fear of Barere. "
I click on a random Barere and what do I see? Random, unwarranted Horowitz bashing in a thread that has nothing to do with him, revealing your hatred and fear of his technical and interpretational superiority over Barere.
One should also bare in mind the technical shortcomings of the actual recording, which in this case is very "mega-phoney", even for a shellac transfer.
We all know what's coming don't we? Richter Richter Richter Richter blah blah blah!
Well, interestingly, unlike Richter, Barere's hands were small, closer in size to Hoffmann's, and in this particular work, I believe Richter is the more solid overall, but Barere's finger work is cleaner. I've never heard a pianist who could surpass Barere's fingerfertigkeit. The sheer velocity, levels of articulation and tonal quality are as divine as they are superhuman.
Cleaner? Parts of the fingerwork are simply inaudible (and before you blame the sound quality, it's easy to detect that it is due to slight finger overlaps, not poor sound- the inconsistency makes very obvious that the sound quality is not at fault). Richter's is far from the most musical, although it does have more clarity and details than this. It's not all about speed though. Where are all those hairpins in the dynamics?
If Barere had any sense he would have judged his tempo from the passage at 0.35. Richter's performance is at least in a solid tempo. Listen to the 'superhuman' articulation around 0.55. The details is in the line are inaudible at this tempo. The articulation would need a slight non-legato crispness (as favoured by Horowitz) to come through, which would demand far greater technique than just skimming through with murky overlaps.
I stand by my original assertions. I'm not claiming the performance is technically beyond all reproach, but taken at this pace, I would not expect it to be so. Indeed, I've heard very few, if any, live renditions of this work that are note perfect and have flawless clarity even when played at tempo two thirds of this, or Richter's, perhaps you know of one?
Oh, I've heard far worse, sure. What I don't get is why this guy has a big cult following. I haven't heard any recordings that suggest anything outstanding to me, other than fast speeds. There's nothing wrong with playing fast, but I'd hope for a lot more interest to go with it. That's what really matters (and what makes Horowitz stand out so consistently).
As for your specific citations of blurring and finger overlaps, Richter makes exactly the same sacrifices and greater, much of the time he interprets the single note passages in both the left and right hands as spread chords, misses notes altogether and the voicing is considerably less balanced, despite the superior recording quality. I accept however that the tempo is more consistent and the performance better structured.
Ok, perhaps he's just not to your taste. It's perfectly fine! Your name and other comments you've posted firmly suggest that you prefer the more idyosyncratic of styles and I can't claim Barere can compete with either Horowtz or Cziffra in this regard. But in my opinion, he was certinaly not a mere speed machine.
Many of his Chopin and Liszt recordings I rate as some of the finest ever made, they are enchantingly spontaneous, profoundly moving and evidently, come straight from the very soul. Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grand Polonaise (only Hoffmann can come close) G Minor Ballade (live, possibly the greatest interpretation I've heard...ever, Db Nocturne - truly ravishing. F Minor Ballade (live) full of charm, tenderness and graceful virtuosity.
Sorry to bang on...but as for Liszt, try the B Minor Sonata - my favorite of all time, Petrach Sonnet 104 - tonal command, phrasing and a poetic temperament as good as any - Faust Waltz (later version on tape, early 1950s) - the most effortless, beautiful, elegant and technically stunning reading I know of-made just weeks before he died. Don Juan Fantasy and Rhapsodie Espagnol - up amongst the very best. There, if you remain unconvinced, at least it won't be for want of my efforts!
The majority of Barere's recordings-as with Petri-are available through APR. The Faust Waltz formed part of his last ever studio session - originally made for the Remington label - and can now be found on Cembal d'amour. His ill health at the time has, in several performances, noticeably tamed his former powers. But the Waltz, the Liebestraum and La Leggierezza truly shine. La Campanella too has outstanding and enviable qualities.
Another almost forgotten master is Frederic Lamond, who also made wonderful recordings (Liszt). And another Liszt pupil, Moriz Rosenthal, extremely interesting musician, some of recordings have been posted on this site.
I'm a big fan of free tempo in performance, but it is incredibly obvious that when he plays slower it is due to technical difficulty. The performance is generally rather bland, in terms of tonal variety, to be honest. I love the old school players, but I don't really understand where this guy's 'cult' following came from.
Cziffra i tak lepszy!
DzikenS94 1 year ago
A classic youtube 'comments' board... not a complete embarrassment to humanity but nearly
wrdna58 1 year ago
fuckin ell
timpaulcope 2 years ago
THIS IS FASTER THAN HOROWITZ AND FILTERMAN!
OH MY GOD (good........)
kempff95 2 years ago 3
u2bmetub, I would suggest that you disappear up your own arse, but such advice is clearly redundant, since you clearly accomplished this contortion some time ago. Perhaps you might reverse course, remove the impacted cack from your ears and realize that while Barere played very fast, he played with clarity and due attention to phrasing. It might not be so obvious "in ano", I suppose. Incidentally, swearing is the last resort of inarticulate motherfuckers. Sweet dreams, my little auto maricon
Baddogphil 3 years ago
The Heroic Polonaise aside, I've never cared much for Horowitz's Chopin, indeed most of it appals me, ugly, overbearing and palpably self-conscious. Richter's is another story, though certainly not one devoid of imperfection, at least in my view.
Razaak 3 years ago
Having heard all of Horowitz's, Gilels' and Richter's renditions of the Liszt Sonata multiple times, I'd rate Barere's higher than any of them, both technically and musically. The same goes for a number of other works that any or all three have recorded such as those referred to in earlier posts.
Razaak 3 years ago
Have you heard Arrau's performance(s) of the Liszt Sonata? It's incredible. Very deep. His interpretation is so penetrating it gives one goose bumps.
bluesclues526 3 years ago
Sorry but it is NOT fair to compare him to Richter.. nobody could possibly fare well in such a comparison of raw ability, not even Horowitz or Gilels. Barere was a great musician who happened to have an impossible facility for speed and used it to his advantage. Can't hold it against him.
sonarrat 3 years ago
This guy is a complete hack, which is typical for such a schmuck. Plays everything Mach 3, with no care for beauty of tone or any interpretation. I know this idiot who completely worships him, because he is also a hack himself. A computer would interpret better than such subhuman filth.
u2bmetub 3 years ago
Ha! jealous
chopin114 3 years ago
Why would anyone be jealous of a musical chipmunk?
u2bmetub 3 years ago
To "u2bmetub":first of all he's playing live (!!!) which shows his courage and mastery of performance.secondly u r wrong:'this guy' (1 of the most incredible pianists of all times) plays at great speed, true -i also have his version of chopin's 1st ballade- but he has dynamics AND -like it or not-sense of (his own)interpretation.
pianofolle 3 years ago 2
Is this not an etude? Is this not an etude marked presto furioso? Is this not an etude marked with this exact metronome marking by a student of chopin? So shut the fuck up!
1fattyfatman 3 years ago
Fattyman: Presto is a relative marking you imbecile. It implies the implementation—upon execution— of musical and aesthetic considerations which certainly should never amount to a derailed circus-like merry-go-round laden with Israeli napalmbent on genocidal destruction. Alas, this is only Chopin, not a bunch of unarmed Palestinian children.
u2bmetub 3 years ago
And furthermore you retard, a marking by a "student" is irrelevant. It's not the source you faggot, and let me see you document it. And I don't care even if Chopin himself were to pick such an idiotic and ridiculous tempo. It's still shit, whatever asshole it's coming from. The reality is that above certain tempi, any music will sound like shit and a parody. So you shut the fuck up and blow me! But make sure you blow no less than "presto furioso", you worthless oral concubine.
u2bmetub 3 years ago
Barere is a great pianist.
You are a homophobic, antisemitic, moron.
Cheers.
micheldvorsky 3 years ago
Directed @ u2bmetub.
micheldvorsky 3 years ago
La musique adoucit les moeurs ?
TheVieuxchat 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
subhuman filth is exactly what u2bme is.
marcxopoco 2 years ago
Ok if we want to put it this way... Richter is still 5sec faster:-P
voolare 3 years ago
very good stern but classic
marcussalieri 3 years ago
I hope people don't judge Barere by this recording. It's just somebody trying to play as fast as possible, and slowing down or blurring when it gets harder. The real musician Barere is to be heard in other recordings like the Don Juan Fantasy, Chopin Ballades 1 & 4, the Blumenfeld left hand etude, and particularly the Liszt sonata, where a case can be made for him being up there with Horowitz and Argerich (though for different reasons).
whatsmylogin 4 years ago
OK One minute, forty seconds. Sacrifices notes and clarity. Awesome exciting, but I think the blue ribbon goes to Claudio Arrau.
wilbur1960 4 years ago
Second of all there are many noticeable mistakes here : blurring, slips, etc... that one hears upon listening closely. Theoretically one could play this in 50 seconds with a million mistakes - based on this line of reasoning this would be an "achievement" in your eyes. By the way, it is not a complete flop (there are worse) but definitely not the top of the top.
gbshalev 4 years ago
The person glorifying this must not play or understand anything about piano. Pollini and Horowitz are far better. First of all they "could" play at that speed.
gbshalev 4 years ago
Pollini and Horowitz are far inferior.
marcxopoco 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Looks like Richter is better than Barere, he's got 5 seconds on him.
"Their franticness on display here on a thread that has nothing to do with Horowitz reveals their hatred and fear of Barere. "
I click on a random Barere and what do I see? Random, unwarranted Horowitz bashing in a thread that has nothing to do with him, revealing your hatred and fear of his technical and interpretational superiority over Barere.
demosj 2 years ago
One should also bare in mind the technical shortcomings of the actual recording, which in this case is very "mega-phoney", even for a shellac transfer.
Razaak 4 years ago
We all know what's coming don't we? Richter Richter Richter Richter blah blah blah!
Well, interestingly, unlike Richter, Barere's hands were small, closer in size to Hoffmann's, and in this particular work, I believe Richter is the more solid overall, but Barere's finger work is cleaner. I've never heard a pianist who could surpass Barere's fingerfertigkeit. The sheer velocity, levels of articulation and tonal quality are as divine as they are superhuman.
Razaak 4 years ago
Cleaner? Parts of the fingerwork are simply inaudible (and before you blame the sound quality, it's easy to detect that it is due to slight finger overlaps, not poor sound- the inconsistency makes very obvious that the sound quality is not at fault). Richter's is far from the most musical, although it does have more clarity and details than this. It's not all about speed though. Where are all those hairpins in the dynamics?
cziffra1980 4 years ago
If Barere had any sense he would have judged his tempo from the passage at 0.35. Richter's performance is at least in a solid tempo. Listen to the 'superhuman' articulation around 0.55. The details is in the line are inaudible at this tempo. The articulation would need a slight non-legato crispness (as favoured by Horowitz) to come through, which would demand far greater technique than just skimming through with murky overlaps.
cziffra1980 4 years ago
I stand by my original assertions. I'm not claiming the performance is technically beyond all reproach, but taken at this pace, I would not expect it to be so. Indeed, I've heard very few, if any, live renditions of this work that are note perfect and have flawless clarity even when played at tempo two thirds of this, or Richter's, perhaps you know of one?
Razaak 4 years ago
Oh, I've heard far worse, sure. What I don't get is why this guy has a big cult following. I haven't heard any recordings that suggest anything outstanding to me, other than fast speeds. There's nothing wrong with playing fast, but I'd hope for a lot more interest to go with it. That's what really matters (and what makes Horowitz stand out so consistently).
cziffra1980 4 years ago
As for your specific citations of blurring and finger overlaps, Richter makes exactly the same sacrifices and greater, much of the time he interprets the single note passages in both the left and right hands as spread chords, misses notes altogether and the voicing is considerably less balanced, despite the superior recording quality. I accept however that the tempo is more consistent and the performance better structured.
Razaak 4 years ago
Ok, perhaps he's just not to your taste. It's perfectly fine! Your name and other comments you've posted firmly suggest that you prefer the more idyosyncratic of styles and I can't claim Barere can compete with either Horowtz or Cziffra in this regard. But in my opinion, he was certinaly not a mere speed machine.
Razaak 4 years ago
Many of his Chopin and Liszt recordings I rate as some of the finest ever made, they are enchantingly spontaneous, profoundly moving and evidently, come straight from the very soul. Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grand Polonaise (only Hoffmann can come close) G Minor Ballade (live, possibly the greatest interpretation I've heard...ever, Db Nocturne - truly ravishing. F Minor Ballade (live) full of charm, tenderness and graceful virtuosity.
Razaak 4 years ago 2
Sorry to bang on...but as for Liszt, try the B Minor Sonata - my favorite of all time, Petrach Sonnet 104 - tonal command, phrasing and a poetic temperament as good as any - Faust Waltz (later version on tape, early 1950s) - the most effortless, beautiful, elegant and technically stunning reading I know of-made just weeks before he died. Don Juan Fantasy and Rhapsodie Espagnol - up amongst the very best. There, if you remain unconvinced, at least it won't be for want of my efforts!
Razaak 4 years ago 3
Hello Razaak, on what label are these Liszt-recordings, are they still commercially available?
The Faust Waltz: it can't be any better than Egon Petri, impossible to surpass...
pianopera 4 years ago
Hello again!
The majority of Barere's recordings-as with Petri-are available through APR. The Faust Waltz formed part of his last ever studio session - originally made for the Remington label - and can now be found on Cembal d'amour. His ill health at the time has, in several performances, noticeably tamed his former powers. But the Waltz, the Liebestraum and La Leggierezza truly shine. La Campanella too has outstanding and enviable qualities.
Razaak 4 years ago
Such a shame that the legacy of both these and other artists of the era, isn't so much greater.
Razaak 4 years ago
Will look for the APR, thanks.
Another almost forgotten master is Frederic Lamond, who also made wonderful recordings (Liszt). And another Liszt pupil, Moriz Rosenthal, extremely interesting musician, some of recordings have been posted on this site.
pianopera 4 years ago
cziffra is full of it.
marcxopoco 2 years ago
I'm a big fan of free tempo in performance, but it is incredibly obvious that when he plays slower it is due to technical difficulty. The performance is generally rather bland, in terms of tonal variety, to be honest. I love the old school players, but I don't really understand where this guy's 'cult' following came from.
cziffra1980 4 years ago
Congratulations! You just bashed the most astonishing ever recording of Chopin Op. 10 no 4. Who's next on the chopping block? Friedman? Lhevinne?
Schnabel87 4 years ago
Certainly not. They are far better pianists.
cziffra1980 4 years ago
and their recordings never sound like a piano roll.
cziffra1980 4 years ago
Keep digging your whole even deeper for yourself.
Res ipsa loquitur.
Schnabel87 4 years ago