Homosexuality is no more a choice than heterosexuality. If you don't think so, then exactly when did you choose to be heterosexual? I choose to be straight, did everything a church told me to to become straight, got an exorcism to become straight, and almost committed suicide when none of their BS worked. There are many people who went to a church instead of someone not so ignorant and many of them now are dead by suicide or traumatized and atheists as a result of the church.
It's my belief that anyone who is a quote 'ex-gay' was so hung-up at a given point, that they would try anything to convince themselves that they really weren’t gay. To me, that is simply a form of self-hatred fueled by what anti-gay belief systems would have you believe. On the other hand, I wish ex-gays well, and I hope you are never haunted by the recurring homosexual feelings your natural self will likely and inevitably feel. I realize you too are simply seeking happiness.
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jajjjajj god dammit this is hilarious just ask that gay pastor who got evicted from his own church ted haggard jaajaajajjaja once a gay always a gay.... i have nothing vs gay community
"anyone who says I have a meek and mild saviour and if you dont like it you can burn forever is a wicked and delusional idiot, that is the language of facism and dictatorship" -Christopher Hitchens
Listen naw, Jehovah hates thos homoshitacts. Ya'll faggots gotzta git yo shit tagetha and bow down ta christ and the all mightee, and spew out yo disease, so ye can entern heavens pearly gates just a little bit after us tremendussly gloriouss christians, you then shamed, but cleansed from the filth before gawds ayes!
It pains me to see people trying so hard to conform their lives to bronze-age words written by bronze-age men based on words and ideas going back ages before them. Especially in the case of these two guys, trying to reconcile their sexuality would seem hard enough, then they try to fit it all into some false precepts based on ancient man-made scriptures that pretend to be from "God."
The bible is not supernatural in original, nor are any of its ideas or concepts. Free yourself.
Ppl don't choose their sexuality or what kind of sex turns you on. Let's put it on sexual behaviour (gay or str8). Some ppl have s&m yearnings etc etc. Some ppl don't like their sexual yearnings and want to be how they see sexually normal. I'm glad I like being my gender. I would want there to be a place to help me change sexually if I wanted. Its this forced conversion I don't like but as long as there are ppl like this ex gay it will continue. It's done out of love more than ppl think tho
haha wow well who would've thought? i wonder how many stammering ambidextrous people there are walking around wondering why the heck they can't form complete sentences lol. (and i can joke because i am sort of one of them ^-^ not so much anymore with the writing, but i can do pretty much any sport related thing with either side...and thanks for the interesting info btw)
the argument is that adultery is a sin, but that doesnt mean sex outside of marriage, just sex while married with a person who isnt ur spouse. all anti-gay references are in the old testament so the jews have an excuse to be homophobic but not the christians.
if u want to gay bash then be a muslim, the koran actually DOES condemn homosexuality and states that u go to hell for it, not in christianity though
@MamaMario13 As for the New Testament here are some verses!
"We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALITY, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"
@MamaMario13 It shouldnt and neither does it affect me, I'm a freethinker fed up with religion. Its just I get annoyed when people say Islam does this, while not knowing that the same applies to other Abrahamic religions, like Christianity.
@MamaMario13 if you want a reference as to where they mention homosexuality being condemned, you should read the story of sodom and gomorrah in the Old Testament. (Also, hence the word "sodomy")
ha ha....They don't see how they are both pointing out why you SHOULDN'T listen to religion. lol. This is a great example of how 'god' doesn't answer prayers also (especially since he doesn't exist) cause the main guy that says Jesus saved him from being gay actually admits that he still is 'gay'. He just doesn't act on it. lol. So how exactly how anyone save you from being gay?!?! lol YOU STILL ARE! lol
Goodness.....So glad that I am not a believer anymore.
This type of so called preaching is not bringing anyone to Christ, but this type of docterine does cause the people to run away, how counter productive for real christians.
Alan: Heterosexuality typically feels natural for us heterosexuals. I didn't have to go through a program to make me attracted to women. In fact when I was a theist, I tried to use Christianity and spirituality to suppress my sexual urges towards women. I thought I was "bad" for wanting to have lots of sex with lots of women. Once I shed the theism, I began to realize that sexuality, including mine, is a beautiful and healthy thing. Being gay is not bad; repressing sexuality can be.
Just like the "Christians" who disregard the " abominations" of eating shellfish, wearing clothes of different fibers, wearing make-up, and the myriad of other"laws" of the Bible the choose to disregard. I think being a "gay Christian" would be preferable to being a hypocritical one.
You're argument is that "someone can't change how they naturally are. Just let them do what's natural." Which is absolutely ridiculous, because you would never tell that to a natural drunk who abuses his family. You can't just choose to make the exception for gays, unless you don't believe being gay is wrong in the first place. But like I said, this argument is for people who want to follow the Bible's rules.
Will You STOP with the cheap tactics of trying to tie Gay with Pedophile!! It's not even in the same league- Pedophiles prey on the weak and unconsenting and it is a crime. Gays are responsible, consenting adults who have natural,emotional and sexual attractions to each other- no different that heterosexuals- and should be encouraged to form lasting,respectful and mutually satisfying relationships. Are you seriously telling me you want to PREVENT love between two people? Search your heart and
@SeattleRexx I'm not trying to compare gays to pedophiles. I'm speaking from a Christian standpoint. If you aren't Christian, the this argument isn't for you. That being said, you can't be a gay Christian. You're claiming to follow the Bible, but also disregarding its teachings.
look at the fathers life, how he lived, what he said! the person that the father jesus was. if he was to see the pain and suffering that is forced on the guy community, the damage and death that is cause be MEN on this issue and in his name through waht they feel is right because of ONE verse THAT DID NOT COME from him. He wouldent weep, oh no, he would be sickend! It also says "tho shall not suffer a witch to live" what the hell ppl, let the killing begin? AGAIN! you sicken me and I'm straight
Isn't living a life of tortured denial even a bigger "sin" than a loving, committed gay life? I pity this Chambers guys' poor wife....she has to know who he's thinking about when they try to have "relations".. So sad on so many levels- if you can change gay to straight, then you should also be able to change straight to gay, no?
@SeattleRexx Same thing. Sex offenders crave to play with little children. Are you suggesting that they should ignore God and act on their desires? He CAN learn to control himself. If he did, he would be living his life for God, not for himself. This is the most unselfish thing you can do, so how can you possibly be suggesting that it is the more sinful way?
Peterson, I will pray for you and the Lord will stand by you. Men don't do that Gay business and are men and not a weakling that can't stand up. There is a meany of man that still having trouble with that thought of it, but Stand strong Be a Man !
@ticket88 never said he wasn't xD didnt he just mention toward the end that he still felt gay? its just he appears to say that he's choosing to live for a higher purpose and achieve a sort of peace that way...
Look God made you a batty buy, and loves you for whom you are. Get over your denial and wear a rubber. Jesus was never the name of the messiah, God is a spirit and his name is Yahuah of hosts. Get a life. Fear Yahuah. Revelation 3:9, Repent.
In a last ditch effort I challenged god to change me. I was shocked when he answered the call. His message was so powerful. He said, my son, just like I have the power to save lives and take lives I also have the power to change lives. God changed my way of thinking that "being gay is bad" to embrace who you are. He changed the way I felt (clinically depressed) and gave me a sense of peace for loving another guy. God challenged me to live life happy and opened about how he made me, gay.
I laughed my balls off when these queens opened their traps claiming to be ex-gay; someone buy them a damn clue??!! Leaders of ex-gay minstries who left stated that no change ever happened for them or anyone else! These programs do emotional harm. People end up depressed & suicidal after repressing what is natural to them (similar to forcing a lefty to be a right handed, which causes neurological brain damage)!
@alpeaston So just because it's natural for someone makes it okay? What about alcoholics who get drunk and beat up their family? They were born like that. Does that mean it's ok? No. They have to learn to control their natural urges.
Same thing with sex offenders. They are naturally messed up. Does that make what they do right? Of course not.
God doesn't say it's wrong to be gay. He says you just have to control yourself, just like all unmarried heterosexuals have to control themselves.
@RazzFink I see no reason to speak to someone in the clutches of a religious delusion. Get some help for that, I mean that in the most Christian way...
@alpeaston its like doing drugs, doing drugs is wrong... and illegal. if you all of a sudden stop.. you may have side effects.. but that doesn't mean its natural...
@goldyaaron Are you ex gay? If not they you don't know what you are talking about. The comparison to "addiction" is slick but no one (outside of the religious bigot) believes it. If you are pretending to be ex-gay, you should listen to those who have "tired" to stop being gay and save yourself and others the grief!
@AmericanGayAtheist well, I'm not going to debate with you. I'm mature enough to know that me and you will never agree on this issue.. However, I must ask, What in the world does it matter that no one, according to you, outside the religous bigot, believes it? Are you trying to say that in order for something to be true, the majority has to believe it.. Believing something and something being true are independant factors...
@alpeaston im left handed... ive done things right-handed before... its awkward but it can work if you expend a bit of concentration on what your doing.... no brain damage here! lol
@lexigirl1aal Well if you were FORCED to use you right hand as while in school (as many were) there can be brain damage. The side of brain of the opposite handedness is where speech is controlled and if the person is forced to use the non dominant hand it can cause speech impediments and other problems. Look it up! I don't minor use of the opposite hand would cause such problems!
@CES888100 I feel sorry for his "wife" and any children. When he finally wakes up from this delusion, they are going to be hurt. Many ex-wives of so called ex-gays regret believing them. They do not change at all, merely acting in a heterosexual way and repressing their true nature. DANGEROUS DANGEROUS DANGEROUS (for all concerned)!
Well after 17 years and $30,000 he hasn't changed because he didn't try. He wanted these other people to make him not gay. All he had to do was ask God to help him, and try with all his heart and he would of did it like the other guy.
Please take your religion and shove it where the sun don't shine. If you're gay, you're gay. Just like if your delusional and ignorant then you are delusional and ignorant!
You're not heaven bound - just delusional. Sorry you are so afraid of death BUT creating and or believing in a delusional place called "heaven" will not save you from dying (and there is no afterlife). Maybe you might live for the NOW instead of that afterlife. But I know for someone as irrational as you that could be impossible. SAD!
@alpeaston well if i take my faith completely out of it i can say that yes we both have room to be wrong. If there is no heaven then i die and nothing happens. I am completley oblivious to the fact so i miss out on nothing. But if your wrong, you burn in hell forever. If you can look at all the design in the world and say there is no God just so you can be with men and feel no remorse be my guest. All will be repaid for what they have done
Just over 200 years ago the bible was used by Christian preachers, etc. to justify SLAVERY. The "HOLY BOOK" you condemn me with tells its readers that it is perfectly OK to own slaves. In fact it talks very explicitly about how slaves should be inherited by their next of kin. Also, answer this question. In all the supposed miracles cures that "god" has done, why has he never healed a amputee?
@alpeaston Ok well slavery in the bible wasn't like the white mans slavery. in fact the bible says that after 7 years the slave has the choice to be free or the slave can choose to stay if he likes it. Don't get white mans slavery mixed up with slavery in the bible. IF the slaves would choose to stay i don't think it was that bad. The amputee argument is getting old. God raises people from the dead. Amputees are amputees for a reason. They can focus on God better that way
@HeavenBound2323 What nonsense! Shame on you. Slaves could be inherited & beaten; they were considered property. Hiding behind the asinine argument that they were more like "servants" then slaves is ridiculous and even beneath YOU! And of course you dislike the AMPUTEE question since it prove that your delusion god is a no show . Since you brought it up - show me some empirical evidence that anyone has ever been raised from the dead!?!
Lee Strobel is not entirely accuarate in stating the stances. You can leave the "behavior" and "relationships" out of the mix. One side says you can STOP being gay period (ORIENTATION) and the other side is pointing out that God creates our ORIENTATION (which CAN NOT be changed) That is why it is so heavily debated!
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
Alan says both OT and NT is relevent? Then murder, genocide, rape, incest(OT), and slavery are all relevent!! I think he's cherry picking!! BTY I'm not gay, but I do agree with Peterson that IT'S THE CHURCH not jesus that has the problem with gays-homophobia!!
@sounddiv homosexuality is determined by genetics, im not sure if being gay makes one less fit to survive and reproduce. the gay gene would have to be recessive since many gays dont produce biological offspring, so a dominant gay gene wouldve resulted in gays being wiped out long ago.
@ytuseruber It doesn't need to be! You have BREATHING, LIVING HUMANS who will tell you that they were born that way. First he says he is no longer "gay" but then says that he still struggles with homosexuality. So he is STILL gay he just doesn't have sex with men just like celebate gays and gays who are virgins? This is sick!
I can see how those who don't believe in the Bible have no conflict with homosexuality. But there is no possible way one can believe the Bible is the word of God and at the same time believe God sees it as anything but sinful.
I am just as much of a sinner as any homosexual, but the problem is when you deny sin in your life.
Jesus' command for us to love others is just as important as his and Paul's words about sexual immorality. Gays must confess all their sins to be saved.
@ebeatworld u should read the bible a little more closely. my professor studies the bible as a career, and she doesnt seem to think the bible condemn it outright. ppl attack it bc its different. end of story. its the same mentality that allowed lefties and blacks to be treated like shit for centuries.
The vast majority of Bible scholars disagree with her, as well as any average person who reads the Bible. The only time the Bible refers to homosexuality is when it describes it as sin.
Don't take my word for it. Read the Bible. It honestly couldn't be more clear. I don't need some Liberal college professor to dictate to me what her twisted view of the word of God is.
The Bible says nothing about blacks and lefties, but it's clear about homosexuality. Read it.
@ebeatworld ever heard of queer theory? it's a branch off of gender studies that examines the relationship bt same sex characters in the bible. ever notice how intimate david and johnathon are in samuel? pretty suspicious to me lol. not an isolated incident either. jesus and peter have a pretty gay moment in luke 22. look it up. its pretty shocking.
I know all about the bogus theory of David and Johnathon. That is implied by homosexuals, but there is not proof of that. If that was the case, then David would have been sinning anyway.
Oh, I see. So because you think Jesus has a "gay moment" -- whatever that is supposed to mean -- that means that overrides all other scripture that calls homosexuality an abomination?
If that was true, it would mean Jesus was a sinner, and, therefore, not divine.
Where do I start? First of all, the scriptures don't need to reiterate themselves over and over if they are truly divine, but I'll give you a list at the top of my head of scriptures about this: 2Peter 2:4-9, Roman 1:24-27, 1Corinthians 6:9-11, 1Timothy 1:9-11, Jude 1:7.
there are also countless references to sexual immorality as being ungodly. Homosexuality is usually in the list with adultery, fornication, etc. Sdm and Gmrah is also mentioned a lot for the homosexuality.
@ebeatworld the story of sodom and gomorah never really seemed like a condemnation of homosexuality to me, just a bunch of sociopathic rapists
u didnt come up with that list off the top of your head, you either spent a good chunk of your life looking those quotes up, your brain is a fucking computer, or youre obsessed with biblical homosexuality or just homosexuality period
can you give me a REAL reason why being gay is so evil? im curious if there even is one.
@louib716 ; "can you give me a REAL reason why being gay is so evil? im curious if there even is one"
i'm not advocating either position,but.....here's one: the parts don't fit....pretty simple, really. If you're an evolutionary biologist, there's no legitimate reason to be gay, and it should be bred out by more desirable characteristics.....that's darwin, not me.
@sounddiv but that doesnt explain why the male g-spot is within the rectum. love doesnt really follow reason. of course the logical choice for sexual preference would be to be straight. therefore, it's fair to assume that if it were a choice, no one would be gay. no one knows for sure if genes, hormones, or environment causes homosexuality, so alluding to darwin might be a bit of a jump, friend :), though i do see where youre going with it. assuming
My comment would make more sense if you were to read the whole debate. The question was whether or not the Bible condemns homosexuality. I said that it clearly does. Then he said something like, "Well, can you tell me some place besides Leviticus that condemns it?" To which i followed up with more passages that condemns it.
My point was if you believe the Bible is true, why would one mention of homosexuality as sin not be enough? How many times is sufficient?
@ebeatworld , Jesus Christ is DEAD already if he ever existed in the first place! I don't believe if he did live he was ever divine! There's roughly 4.5 billion other people who believe as I do!
@99minerkc "Religious people are evil": really? ALL religious people are evil? Look up WIlliam Wilburforce, who...as a religious person..ended slavery in England.
...look up a guy named Martin Luther King, Jr....
Look up 50 of the 53 Founding Fathers of America...
@sounddiv , another typical religious person who takes things literally!! Show me once spot where I said 100% religious people are evil! What do the founding fathers who advocated for SEPARATION of church from state (they knew of religion's evil)have to do with anything? Did you know that some of them were atheist? Some were agnostic? That's right! Did you know that Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the bible and that he was not a christian? GET REAL!
@99minerkc : look up Josephus, Pliny the younger, not to mention the historical documents (which are in the bible). He was a real, historical figure. If you doubt that (based on the historical documents),you also doubt the existence of Nero,Jesse James, and Henry VIII.
@sounddiv Did you know that Josephus writing regarding Jesus "super natural" qualities has been deemed by historians as most likely a forgery? Bet you didn't know or if you did you're being intellectually dishonest. As far as jesus being a historical figure ie a holy "man" I would support that. No super natural garbage needed.
@ebeatworld Oh yeah? What about DIVORCE? Jesus spoke against it (unlike same sex love)! Yet all Christian sects except Catholics allow it & even they (if you have money) will grant an annulment. The hypocrisy of Christian churches is why it is hemorrhaging believers. It will be lucky to last 200 more years!
@alpeaston I can't speak for all churches. But my church and most I know of feel the same way about divorce as they do about homosexuality. I don't know what churches you are talking about. We do believe divorce is a sin.
Jesus also quoted OT scripture time and time again. And if you believe he is God in the flesh like the Bible says, then He wrote the words. The words spoken throughout the Bible condemning homosexuality, (including many times by Paul), are theopneustos (God breathed.)
marriage between man and woman is something that the Lord made, and it can be fruitful (bring more of God's children into the world) so it definitely brings glory to God :)
But you said that any romantic relationship is a form of idolatry if it comes between you and god or is not used to glorify god. What about the gay relationships that do infact glorify god and both of the people are glorifying god in all they do? How is that possible? Why does it happen?
So are heterosexual married couples who cannot have children/don't want kids not able to "bring glory to god"? Marriage is not about producing children, it is about love between two people who wish to spend their lives together.
Homosexuality is not the sin. Acting on the sex is the sin. The scripture only states that sex is a gift of God to be shared by a man and woman after marriage. I do not know why I was challenged with this same sex attraction, but if you ask Jesus daily to be guided by him and do what he asks then it will all lead to where you need to go. With Jesus there are no boundaries in life, just the ones we place on ourselves.
Sin, yes a sin. If I believe in the Bible, all of these things would be considered sins.
Since we are talking about sexual preference, it is the same exact thing as being a pedophile, which is considered by religious and areligious people alike to be wrong, anyway you look at it. The excuse of it being inherent is not acceptable in any way. We don't just say to pedophiles "It's not their fault, let them do what they want." No, because its wrong any way you slice it.
The difference between sexual preference and acts with children, disabled adults, adults in a coma, animals etc is: These people are considered wrong by "areligious" people because one person exercises sexual acts with a human or being that does not consent, or is incapable of forming consent, mentally or physically.
The CONSENT to being penetrated or touched is the crucial point where to point evil to - not the Bible or anything else.
No, you are bringing up a completely different topic. My point has nothing to do with the act of rape, it has to do with the justification of the participation in homosexual activities by stating that it is their natural tendency. In other words, the idea that its acceptable for someone to partake in homosexual activities on the basis that its biologically inherent. If that is a motive for why it is acceptable, every evil act a person can think of is acceptable.
You said: "Even areligious people" do not accept sexual preferences, and then made the analogy to pedophily. This is not true because no "areligious" person would equal the two, but derive harm from one (the abuse of a person not capable of consenting), and see no harm in the other (two adults choosing to act upon their private individual prefernces).
The point is biologically determined or not: Areligious people see no harm in consensual adult relationships as long as their is
@dinavienna Regardless of moral inclination there is no logical justification for homosexual acts. Whether or not anyone can actually reason without morals is questionable. However, if one attempted to reason from an evolutionary standpoint, homosexuality is a hinderance to your "species."
abuse, coercion, or doubtful power imbalance involved, all of which would render any relationship, hetero or homosexual, violent or abusive, and therefore doubtful/wrong.
WIthout a millenia old scripture, an areligious person simply sees no harm in homosexual preference, much in contrast to pedophilic preferences.
So your entire point on areligious people's preoccupations is off point.
Besides: It looks like more and more scientific evidence points to a biological cause for
IF in a couple of years a gene of homosexuality, or a hormonal basis is found a lot of people will laugh their behinds off because exactly the research people like you encouraged (that is the fundamentalists agitating against homosexuals' private choices) will prove your millenia old Middle Eastern scriptures wrong.
an omniscient God would have known it would not be a sin, but a genetic disposition. Hence you will have to throw your book out the door I predict.
In contrast to this, we are not talking about rape by a gay man here. We are talking about consensual relationships. And they have nothing to do with abuse of a mentally inferior human or being at all, at least in the mind of "areligious", or rational, people.
The point of my argument is that we would never justify someone for being a pedophile by stating that its biologically inherent. However, with the acts of homosexuality that is exactly what society attempts to do. Society labels homosexual tendencies as acceptable based on the notion that they're genetically prone to be homosexual. Yet, if someone is genetically prone to murdering people the act is deemed inexcusable, even though they can both be justified using the same logic.
In fact we do in every criminal case of child abuse invoke a "biological" or rather psychological disposition. Take a child molester who raped and even killed a child. IF he is found mentally sick we do say he is not responsible for his act. In the criminal law of my country that means he cannot be tried for murder. He will be put into a psychiatric ward, but NOT receive a life sentence. The quality of the psychiatric ward as opposed to prison is: At any point they are CURED
This means: A child rapist and murderer theoretically could be released after very few months or years if doctors say he is cured (unlikely, but still).
That is because we say he is not a criminal, but not responsible for his act due to his mental illness. So in a way you can liken society's growing acceptance of homosexuality as potentially genetically determined to society's traditional acceptance of mental illness setting off criminal guilt.
And the difference here is yet, whcih you want to escape all the time: WIth child murder no one, religious or areligious, no one sees anything positive or "rightful"about taking a life. Everyone condemns it as an act.
With homosexuality the large majority of society in the 21st century not enslaved to millenia old books does not see the slightest wrong in adult consensual relationships. We simply think its a. not wrong at all, b. not our business at all.
Also, you said that no areligious person would not equate the two acts. But, they have no choice in the matter, if you justify the one act based on genetics what law excludes the other from being justified based on genetics? There is no objective criterion, outside of the one you just created for yourself, as to why murder is wrong. Therefore, an areligious person or atheist would be claiming a moral law that is objective, which is contradictory to their world view.
@RoyalBaller9 Yes but right and wrong are set by in our country by secular reasoning not religion. Gays do not hurt anyone (no matter what silly argument you try) and give consent; children & animal can't! That the prejudice is being based on religion should be a clue as to why it should never be used to base laws or grant rights on. 200 years ago it was perfectly right to own people; no more!
The concept of right and wrong come from God. The country copies most of its standards and regulations come from the Judeo-Christian worldview, regardless of what you think. I never said that Homosexuals hurt anyone, although they are, in the end, hurting themselves. But, that doesn't mean that what they're doing is right or even logical. No homosexual act can be logically defended by the theist or the atheist using evolutionary terms.
@RoyalBaller9 No they did not and you can't prove they did. if you referring to the bible, the bible was written by men not god (no matter what you choose to believe) and there were law and the concept about right and wrong long before the Jews began the bible, get some history lessons - they will help!
Your statement "all morality is subjective," would then have to be subjective as well, which means it isn't true for all people or all the time and it also means that you can't tell anyone they're right or wrong for doing anything. In addition, your claiming that your position is objective while at the same time claiming that there is no objectivity in morality. I fear that you don't understand the consequences of what you've just stated.
Secular Reason can never lead to a society where the rules and regulations are followed for logical reasons. There is no logical reason for me to act in a socially respectable manner if right and wrong are only ultimately set by secular reasoning. You can't prove what you think is good is better than what anyone else thinks is good, it's subjective. And even if you can you can't logically expect anyone else to follow what you think over what they think.
@RoyalBaller9 all morality is subjective. The delusion that objective morality comes from the bible or god is ludicrous! There was morality before the bible was written and there is morality now (built on human social interaction and the need created by it). But again, discussing this with you is nonsense. I know you can't change, your too scared! I just hope other are getting this info!
If all morality is subjective, than acts are sometimes good and sometimes bad. Therefore, it would okay sometimes to kill an innocent toddler or rape a young girl, according to your subjective morality. Furthermore, it would be okay sometimes for me someone to kill anyone unjustly.
If I can defend the standpoint that homosexual acts are acceptable on the basis that we're animals and some people are "wired" that way, you cannot argue that I can use this same standard to justify pedophilia. The humanist, secularist, and atheist says that we're animals and its normal for some people to be homosexual. Therefore, any act can be justified on these terms, you can't start borrowing your morality from another source, right and wrong don't exist in that world view.
@RoyalBaller9 that gays are wired to love the same sex is only one part of the equation. That the two people involved are consenting and informed ADULTS is the second level and neither pedophiles or people into bestiality are getting legal consent! Again, go away, find some white supremacy group that need a new member, you're stupidity is boring already!
The main argument in support of homosexual behavior is the fairy tale that we're animals and that some people are "inherently" gay. If we're just animals and our morality is subjective, as you have stated, there is no logical basis for you to even be commenting on this video. You can have your own morality, but you can't tell anyone else that their view is wrong, based on the logical out-workings of your own beliefs.
Ultimately, the morality comes from God, the Bible is not the ultimately cause or source of morality. If you deny that our morality and, indeed, the entire worlds morality is influence from the judeo-christian worldview, than you're simply not basing your opinion on facts. Even the most rigid atheists would admit that their morality is heavily influenced, if not completely molded by it.
You've failed to give any basis for me to believe that human beings are animals, and have yet to espouse any basis or motive for me to not treat humans like animals, which is the only logical conclusion of your beliefs. Also, simply because the majority or mainstream biological or "scientific" belief is one of ignorance, it doesn't mean it's right. It's called the paradigm from which life is viewed currently, it has no implications as far as the truth of that paradigm.
Basically, my point is that if you're going to state that homosexual acts are acceptable you better find another reason to do so. Genetic predisposition is not justification to take part in any activity. If you're going to take part it in those acts don't tell me you had no choice because you were "born" that way.
there seems to be a gene for aggression, greater propensity to criminality. No, this does not mean they had no choice. They have. Here is the point again: Criminal activity is antisocial activity.
No one areligious believes consensual relationships are harmful or antisocial in any way.
besides: The attraction to another person, the ability to fall in love is quite a bit more essential to human happiness. If you are not attracted to women and denied to live out your attraction
to men you will not achieve satisfaction in your love life. This is a huge part of human existence. So quite a bit more central and essential to a human's life and the success therein than whether one can live out one's aggression.
It is quite outrageous people who are not concerned by how it feels to be attracted to the own sex only dare downtalk this attraction of others. Be happy you love women (men in case you are a woman).
What's your business in others not feeling this way?
Obey your God if you believe in it. Mind your own sins.
But dare not psychologically torturing people who happen to be different, than you, not attracted to the opposite sex. 99% of the time I hear heterosexual people talk about and judge things they necessarily have not the slightest idea about. Every human knows the temptation of stealing I guess, in childhood or later. NOT every human being knows the temptation of attraction to the other sex.
I truly don't see where the moral logic comes from in the atheistic world view. I wouldn't justify a murderer, but using the logic of justifying homosexual acts I very well could justify their acts. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, but everyone is not entitled to their own universal laws.
@RoyalBaller9 **Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, but everyone is not entitled to their own universal laws. **
Yes but in the USA we are all entitled to equality under the law. You can dislike gays, blacks, women, Mormons but you do not have the right to discriminate against them or deny then equality.
I don't believe that human beings are animals. If you want to believe that you're the same as a monkey, a dog, or any other animal thats your own choice. Also, if you want to justify an act based on inherent inclinations its your own choice as well. But, there is no option for that act to be deemed okay based on those genetic predispositions. Furthermore, if you want to compare yourself and judge what is appropriate based on what animals do in nature you can continue to do so.
@RoyalBaller9 I don't give a rats ass what you believe (especially since you are a dulusional religious asshole) but humans are animals whether you like the distinction or not. Now don't you have a KKK meeting or bible study to go to?
Funny you try to characterize me as intolerant when that is exactly what you're being right now towards anyone that disagrees with your belief. Just because you're indoctrinated by the mainstream and controlled miseducation where ever you are doesn't mean you know for a fact that humans are animals. I love your wonderful use of ad-hominems without giving any objective fact
@RoyalBaller9 listen, I've actually wasted enough time on you nonsense. Human being are animals. Just cause you do not like that distinction doesn't make you right. .Any biology teacher (well except in a "religious school") will tell you that. Sorry but its true. (as is the fact that anyone who believes in religion and go is delusional,; there is ZERO poof!
The logical explanation for homosexual behavior is attraction. You can measure attraction of heterosexual and homosexual test persons by physically measuring their reaction (widening of the inner of the eye, heartrate, sweat etc) indicating attraction to pictures.
There you have your logics of why they want to flirt, kiss, have sex with persons of one sex and not the other: Attraction.Yes, it is not reproductive. Neither is love and sex in the post-menopause age. It still exists
there is no reproduction in the sex life of a sterile couple. The "logical" explanation for their continued love and sex life is attraction, not reproduction. And fun and lust. The logical explanation for most of human sexuality in contrast to most animal species, who have sexuality only for reproduction with the exception of the highest developed species like apesl
Besides "nature": You do know even in wildlife observation homosexuality has been confirmedd amongst animals?
Alan Chamber's life is as twisted as his speech is.
IvanJC10 2 weeks ago
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Homosexuality is no more a choice than heterosexuality. If you don't think so, then exactly when did you choose to be heterosexual? I choose to be straight, did everything a church told me to to become straight, got an exorcism to become straight, and almost committed suicide when none of their BS worked. There are many people who went to a church instead of someone not so ignorant and many of them now are dead by suicide or traumatized and atheists as a result of the church.
MrSurfingdreamer 1 month ago
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It's my belief that anyone who is a quote 'ex-gay' was so hung-up at a given point, that they would try anything to convince themselves that they really weren’t gay. To me, that is simply a form of self-hatred fueled by what anti-gay belief systems would have you believe. On the other hand, I wish ex-gays well, and I hope you are never haunted by the recurring homosexual feelings your natural self will likely and inevitably feel. I realize you too are simply seeking happiness.
paulsboroman 3 months ago
Alan Chambers is about as fey as a man can get and still be biologically male. Wanna bet that he’s wearing girlie undies?
jimtrueblue99 3 months ago
I wish you didn't record this annoying video on a helicopter. What's wrong with you?
shinesthrudarain 4 months ago
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Subscribe to my channel to possibly WIN MY PAYCHECK.Just watch the videos I put out mondays and fridays and you could possibly win my paycheck.Better hurry up,I'll be broke soon.
EvilGingerbreadMen 5 months ago
jajjjajj god dammit this is hilarious just ask that gay pastor who got evicted from his own church ted haggard jaajaajajjaja once a gay always a gay.... i have nothing vs gay community
MrLuiS3rd 6 months ago
"anyone who says I have a meek and mild saviour and if you dont like it you can burn forever is a wicked and delusional idiot, that is the language of facism and dictatorship" -Christopher Hitchens
MamaMario13 7 months ago
Listen naw, Jehovah hates thos homoshitacts. Ya'll faggots gotzta git yo shit tagetha and bow down ta christ and the all mightee, and spew out yo disease, so ye can entern heavens pearly gates just a little bit after us tremendussly gloriouss christians, you then shamed, but cleansed from the filth before gawds ayes!
HALLELUJAH - Praise the LAOWDA!!!
Thesortvokter 7 months ago
@Thesortvokter yeah then they can all sound like your inbred self
idaman12345 6 months ago
@idaman12345 Yu be one them faggots, boya?
Thou needst ta redeem yoa sinful flesha, so the Lauwda kin look 'pon ya, 'ithout hurtin' his perfect ayes, boya!
Kneela, b'for tha Griiiiat Juhov-uh, boya!
Thesortvokter 6 months ago
@Thesortvokter not gay
just an intelligent person, unlike yourself
idaman12345 6 months ago
@idaman12345 'telligent person, nawt hunlaike m'self, huh?
Who told ya A wus 'telligent? I ain't not wanna be 'telligent like no faggut, ya hea'!
Ya shjut up with cumparin' me 'ith fagguts, ya hea'!
A'm a good christjun - naw ya'll stoptalkin 'bout this faghibombination and spreedin' dat AIDEYS 'round!
I hurd it mutatin' and spreedin thru air by conversin' wit 'em, naw?
Yu hurd dat?
Thesortvokter 6 months ago
@Thesortvokter good christian = bad person
tell me if your parents divorce, are they still brother and sister?
idaman12345 6 months ago
@idaman12345 Thur ma brutha aind sista, how'd ya gueiss?
Thesortvokter 6 months ago
@Thesortvokter
I see what you did thar.
TheCeejReturns 4 months ago
@Thesortvokter Love ya troll. You prove just how ridiculous Christians are.
PunkRockFreak09 2 months ago
It pains me to see people trying so hard to conform their lives to bronze-age words written by bronze-age men based on words and ideas going back ages before them. Especially in the case of these two guys, trying to reconcile their sexuality would seem hard enough, then they try to fit it all into some false precepts based on ancient man-made scriptures that pretend to be from "God."
The bible is not supernatural in original, nor are any of its ideas or concepts. Free yourself.
belodeau 9 months ago
Ppl don't choose their sexuality or what kind of sex turns you on. Let's put it on sexual behaviour (gay or str8). Some ppl have s&m yearnings etc etc. Some ppl don't like their sexual yearnings and want to be how they see sexually normal. I'm glad I like being my gender. I would want there to be a place to help me change sexually if I wanted. Its this forced conversion I don't like but as long as there are ppl like this ex gay it will continue. It's done out of love more than ppl think tho
BizaroMustard100 9 months ago
haha wow well who would've thought? i wonder how many stammering ambidextrous people there are walking around wondering why the heck they can't form complete sentences lol. (and i can joke because i am sort of one of them ^-^ not so much anymore with the writing, but i can do pretty much any sport related thing with either side...and thanks for the interesting info btw)
lexigirl1aal 10 months ago
I don't know whether to laugh or cry......hmm I think I will laugh.
nr900 11 months ago
the argument is that adultery is a sin, but that doesnt mean sex outside of marriage, just sex while married with a person who isnt ur spouse. all anti-gay references are in the old testament so the jews have an excuse to be homophobic but not the christians.
if u want to gay bash then be a muslim, the koran actually DOES condemn homosexuality and states that u go to hell for it, not in christianity though
MamaMario13 1 year ago
@MamaMario13
Think again! The Old Testament is still believed to be Scripture by Christians!
DudeDesi07 11 months ago
@MamaMario13 As for the New Testament here are some verses!
"We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALITY, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"
(1 Timothy 1:9-11)
DudeDesi07 11 months ago
@DudeDesi07 either way im an atheist so it doesnt affect me
MamaMario13 11 months ago
@MamaMario13 It shouldnt and neither does it affect me, I'm a freethinker fed up with religion. Its just I get annoyed when people say Islam does this, while not knowing that the same applies to other Abrahamic religions, like Christianity.
DudeDesi07 10 months ago
@DudeDesi07 You BOOK is only good for wiping your ass.
Joolsie68 10 months ago
@Joolsie68 LOL I am an apatheist, I dont believe in religion period...
DudeDesi07 10 months ago
@MamaMario13 if you want a reference as to where they mention homosexuality being condemned, you should read the story of sodom and gomorrah in the Old Testament. (Also, hence the word "sodomy")
lexigirl1aal 10 months ago
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@lexigirl1aal I repeat "either way im an atheist so it doesnt affect me"
MamaMario13 10 months ago
He's not Gay any more, but he still has teh Lisp ? lmfaoooooo liar
SpearofDestiny0 1 year ago
The Exodus guy looked like the biggest fag of the pair...
CybershulDotCom 1 year ago
are you filming this from a helicopter?
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 1 year ago 9
@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 ROFL yeah really! It sounds like perpellers in the backround
atlasshrugged2u 1 year ago
ha ha....They don't see how they are both pointing out why you SHOULDN'T listen to religion. lol. This is a great example of how 'god' doesn't answer prayers also (especially since he doesn't exist) cause the main guy that says Jesus saved him from being gay actually admits that he still is 'gay'. He just doesn't act on it. lol. So how exactly how anyone save you from being gay?!?! lol YOU STILL ARE! lol
Goodness.....So glad that I am not a believer anymore.
gary031183 1 year ago
Turning to God is how you earn your forgiveness.
NYerintransit 1 year ago
This type of so called preaching is not bringing anyone to Christ, but this type of docterine does cause the people to run away, how counter productive for real christians.
Missytrilakes 1 year ago
Alan: Heterosexuality typically feels natural for us heterosexuals. I didn't have to go through a program to make me attracted to women. In fact when I was a theist, I tried to use Christianity and spirituality to suppress my sexual urges towards women. I thought I was "bad" for wanting to have lots of sex with lots of women. Once I shed the theism, I began to realize that sexuality, including mine, is a beautiful and healthy thing. Being gay is not bad; repressing sexuality can be.
peasantsoul 1 year ago
Alan: It felt natural to you because you are gay. If you were straight, straightness would feel natural.
peasantsoul 1 year ago
Just like the "Christians" who disregard the " abominations" of eating shellfish, wearing clothes of different fibers, wearing make-up, and the myriad of other"laws" of the Bible the choose to disregard. I think being a "gay Christian" would be preferable to being a hypocritical one.
SeattleRexx 1 year ago
You're argument is that "someone can't change how they naturally are. Just let them do what's natural." Which is absolutely ridiculous, because you would never tell that to a natural drunk who abuses his family. You can't just choose to make the exception for gays, unless you don't believe being gay is wrong in the first place. But like I said, this argument is for people who want to follow the Bible's rules.
RazzFink 1 year ago
@SeattleRexx Actually those other lawas were just ceremonial and not repeated in the new testament.
fashionhistorylover 1 year ago
Will You STOP with the cheap tactics of trying to tie Gay with Pedophile!! It's not even in the same league- Pedophiles prey on the weak and unconsenting and it is a crime. Gays are responsible, consenting adults who have natural,emotional and sexual attractions to each other- no different that heterosexuals- and should be encouraged to form lasting,respectful and mutually satisfying relationships. Are you seriously telling me you want to PREVENT love between two people? Search your heart and
SeattleRexx 1 year ago
@SeattleRexx I'm not trying to compare gays to pedophiles. I'm speaking from a Christian standpoint. If you aren't Christian, the this argument isn't for you. That being said, you can't be a gay Christian. You're claiming to follow the Bible, but also disregarding its teachings.
RazzFink 1 year ago
I remember them both sucking me off on 42nd Street a few months ago.
winthrop1009 1 year ago
those guys probably never get chicks. How sad
solitarytraveler19 1 year ago
look at the fathers life, how he lived, what he said! the person that the father jesus was. if he was to see the pain and suffering that is forced on the guy community, the damage and death that is cause be MEN on this issue and in his name through waht they feel is right because of ONE verse THAT DID NOT COME from him. He wouldent weep, oh no, he would be sickend! It also says "tho shall not suffer a witch to live" what the hell ppl, let the killing begin? AGAIN! you sicken me and I'm straight
spawn70470 1 year ago
Isn't living a life of tortured denial even a bigger "sin" than a loving, committed gay life? I pity this Chambers guys' poor wife....she has to know who he's thinking about when they try to have "relations".. So sad on so many levels- if you can change gay to straight, then you should also be able to change straight to gay, no?
SeattleRexx 1 year ago 3
@SeattleRexx Same thing. Sex offenders crave to play with little children. Are you suggesting that they should ignore God and act on their desires? He CAN learn to control himself. If he did, he would be living his life for God, not for himself. This is the most unselfish thing you can do, so how can you possibly be suggesting that it is the more sinful way?
RazzFink 1 year ago
If you think "God" really gives a fuck who you fuck, then you're an idiot.
LovelyGuts1 1 year ago
Peterson, I will pray for you and the Lord will stand by you. Men don't do that Gay business and are men and not a weakling that can't stand up. There is a meany of man that still having trouble with that thought of it, but Stand strong Be a Man !
turtle4aire 1 year ago
It's definitely the soy lattes.
polaroidsky 1 year ago
The guy on the upper right is still as gay as a hat box.
ticket88 1 year ago 36
@ticket88 never said he wasn't xD didnt he just mention toward the end that he still felt gay? its just he appears to say that he's choosing to live for a higher purpose and achieve a sort of peace that way...
lexigirl1aal 10 months ago
Look God made you a batty buy, and loves you for whom you are. Get over your denial and wear a rubber. Jesus was never the name of the messiah, God is a spirit and his name is Yahuah of hosts. Get a life. Fear Yahuah. Revelation 3:9, Repent.
stoodOnAnArk 1 year ago
In a last ditch effort I challenged god to change me. I was shocked when he answered the call. His message was so powerful. He said, my son, just like I have the power to save lives and take lives I also have the power to change lives. God changed my way of thinking that "being gay is bad" to embrace who you are. He changed the way I felt (clinically depressed) and gave me a sense of peace for loving another guy. God challenged me to live life happy and opened about how he made me, gay.
Zeekeo303 1 year ago
I laughed my balls off when these queens opened their traps claiming to be ex-gay; someone buy them a damn clue??!! Leaders of ex-gay minstries who left stated that no change ever happened for them or anyone else! These programs do emotional harm. People end up depressed & suicidal after repressing what is natural to them (similar to forcing a lefty to be a right handed, which causes neurological brain damage)!
alpeaston 1 year ago 15
@alpeaston So just because it's natural for someone makes it okay? What about alcoholics who get drunk and beat up their family? They were born like that. Does that mean it's ok? No. They have to learn to control their natural urges.
Same thing with sex offenders. They are naturally messed up. Does that make what they do right? Of course not.
God doesn't say it's wrong to be gay. He says you just have to control yourself, just like all unmarried heterosexuals have to control themselves.
RazzFink 1 year ago
@RazzFink You're a delusional Christian, I suggest you seek long term therapy for your delusions. Good luck with that!
AmericanGayAtheist 1 year ago
@AmericanGayAtheist Thanks for the great, thought provoking, intellectual argument.
RazzFink 1 year ago
@RazzFink I see no reason to speak to someone in the clutches of a religious delusion. Get some help for that, I mean that in the most Christian way...
AmericanGayAtheist 1 year ago
@alpeaston its like doing drugs, doing drugs is wrong... and illegal. if you all of a sudden stop.. you may have side effects.. but that doesn't mean its natural...
goldyaaron 1 year ago
@goldyaaron Are you ex gay? If not they you don't know what you are talking about. The comparison to "addiction" is slick but no one (outside of the religious bigot) believes it. If you are pretending to be ex-gay, you should listen to those who have "tired" to stop being gay and save yourself and others the grief!
AmericanGayAtheist 1 year ago
@AmericanGayAtheist well, I'm not going to debate with you. I'm mature enough to know that me and you will never agree on this issue.. However, I must ask, What in the world does it matter that no one, according to you, outside the religous bigot, believes it? Are you trying to say that in order for something to be true, the majority has to believe it.. Believing something and something being true are independant factors...
goldyaaron 1 year ago
@alpeaston im left handed... ive done things right-handed before... its awkward but it can work if you expend a bit of concentration on what your doing.... no brain damage here! lol
lexigirl1aal 10 months ago
@lexigirl1aal Well if you were FORCED to use you right hand as while in school (as many were) there can be brain damage. The side of brain of the opposite handedness is where speech is controlled and if the person is forced to use the non dominant hand it can cause speech impediments and other problems. Look it up! I don't minor use of the opposite hand would cause such problems!
AmericanGayAtheist 10 months ago
Chambers looks like his eyes are about to POP OUT of his head.
biggiejeffrey 1 year ago
how does this guy know wat god wants???
girlcalledaish 1 year ago
Alan Chambers talks like he's gay
CES888100 1 year ago
@CES888100
Yeah, cause he is. Gay people can decide to live as heterosexual just like people can choose to be celibate priests.... but it often does not work.
CalifaJohn 1 year ago
@CES888100 I feel sorry for his "wife" and any children. When he finally wakes up from this delusion, they are going to be hurt. Many ex-wives of so called ex-gays regret believing them. They do not change at all, merely acting in a heterosexual way and repressing their true nature. DANGEROUS DANGEROUS DANGEROUS (for all concerned)!
alpeaston 1 year ago
Well after 17 years and $30,000 he hasn't changed because he didn't try. He wanted these other people to make him not gay. All he had to do was ask God to help him, and try with all his heart and he would of did it like the other guy.
HeavenBound2323 1 year ago
@HeavenBound2323
Please take your religion and shove it where the sun don't shine. If you're gay, you're gay. Just like if your delusional and ignorant then you are delusional and ignorant!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston God Bless you
HeavenBound2323 1 year ago
@HeavenBound2323
You're not heaven bound - just delusional. Sorry you are so afraid of death BUT creating and or believing in a delusional place called "heaven" will not save you from dying (and there is no afterlife). Maybe you might live for the NOW instead of that afterlife. But I know for someone as irrational as you that could be impossible. SAD!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston well if i take my faith completely out of it i can say that yes we both have room to be wrong. If there is no heaven then i die and nothing happens. I am completley oblivious to the fact so i miss out on nothing. But if your wrong, you burn in hell forever. If you can look at all the design in the world and say there is no God just so you can be with men and feel no remorse be my guest. All will be repaid for what they have done
HeavenBound2323 1 year ago
@HeavenBound2323
Just over 200 years ago the bible was used by Christian preachers, etc. to justify SLAVERY. The "HOLY BOOK" you condemn me with tells its readers that it is perfectly OK to own slaves. In fact it talks very explicitly about how slaves should be inherited by their next of kin. Also, answer this question. In all the supposed miracles cures that "god" has done, why has he never healed a amputee?
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston Ok well slavery in the bible wasn't like the white mans slavery. in fact the bible says that after 7 years the slave has the choice to be free or the slave can choose to stay if he likes it. Don't get white mans slavery mixed up with slavery in the bible. IF the slaves would choose to stay i don't think it was that bad. The amputee argument is getting old. God raises people from the dead. Amputees are amputees for a reason. They can focus on God better that way
HeavenBound2323 1 year ago
@HeavenBound2323 What nonsense! Shame on you. Slaves could be inherited & beaten; they were considered property. Hiding behind the asinine argument that they were more like "servants" then slaves is ridiculous and even beneath YOU! And of course you dislike the AMPUTEE question since it prove that your delusion god is a no show . Since you brought it up - show me some empirical evidence that anyone has ever been raised from the dead!?!
alpeaston 1 year ago
Lee Strobel is not entirely accuarate in stating the stances. You can leave the "behavior" and "relationships" out of the mix. One side says you can STOP being gay period (ORIENTATION) and the other side is pointing out that God creates our ORIENTATION (which CAN NOT be changed) That is why it is so heavily debated!
free2bfierce 1 year ago
Too bad the quality is so bad. You don't know how to capture video?
iloveJesus420 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
Alan Chambers is fighting his own demons to no avail.
His body language discloses that he is a wanna be straight. Talking in the name of god/Jesus is hypocritical. If you are so Christian then start eating Kosher and keeping the Jewish mitzvot as Jesus was born and DIED as a pure Jew,
yeledpele1 1 year ago
Alan says both OT and NT is relevent? Then murder, genocide, rape, incest(OT), and slavery are all relevent!! I think he's cherry picking!! BTY I'm not gay, but I do agree with Peterson that IT'S THE CHURCH not jesus that has the problem with gays-homophobia!!
99minerkc 1 year ago
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sounddiv 1 year ago
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sounddiv 1 year ago
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@99minerkc : another non sequiter. Just becaue God allows something doesn't mean He approves of it....
sounddiv 1 year ago
@sounddiv homosexuality is determined by genetics, im not sure if being gay makes one less fit to survive and reproduce. the gay gene would have to be recessive since many gays dont produce biological offspring, so a dominant gay gene wouldve resulted in gays being wiped out long ago.
louib716 1 year ago
@louib716 Interesting, as the scientific literature in no way conclusively states that homosexual behavior is determined by genetics.
ytuseruber 1 year ago
@ytuseruber It doesn't need to be! You have BREATHING, LIVING HUMANS who will tell you that they were born that way. First he says he is no longer "gay" but then says that he still struggles with homosexuality. So he is STILL gay he just doesn't have sex with men just like celebate gays and gays who are virgins? This is sick!
free2bfierce 1 year ago
This is funny and sad. This Alan Chambers guy is totally gay. He sounds more gay than that Peterson guy. Who's he trying to kid?
ralphyetmore 1 year ago
@ralphyetmore God. He's trying to kid God.
pfat0 1 year ago
I can see how those who don't believe in the Bible have no conflict with homosexuality. But there is no possible way one can believe the Bible is the word of God and at the same time believe God sees it as anything but sinful.
I am just as much of a sinner as any homosexual, but the problem is when you deny sin in your life.
Jesus' command for us to love others is just as important as his and Paul's words about sexual immorality. Gays must confess all their sins to be saved.
ebeatworld 1 year ago
@ebeatworld u should read the bible a little more closely. my professor studies the bible as a career, and she doesnt seem to think the bible condemn it outright. ppl attack it bc its different. end of story. its the same mentality that allowed lefties and blacks to be treated like shit for centuries.
louib716 1 year ago
@louib716
The vast majority of Bible scholars disagree with her, as well as any average person who reads the Bible. The only time the Bible refers to homosexuality is when it describes it as sin.
Don't take my word for it. Read the Bible. It honestly couldn't be more clear. I don't need some Liberal college professor to dictate to me what her twisted view of the word of God is.
The Bible says nothing about blacks and lefties, but it's clear about homosexuality. Read it.
ebeatworld 1 year ago
@ebeatworld ever heard of queer theory? it's a branch off of gender studies that examines the relationship bt same sex characters in the bible. ever notice how intimate david and johnathon are in samuel? pretty suspicious to me lol. not an isolated incident either. jesus and peter have a pretty gay moment in luke 22. look it up. its pretty shocking.
louib716 1 year ago
@louib716
I know all about the bogus theory of David and Johnathon. That is implied by homosexuals, but there is not proof of that. If that was the case, then David would have been sinning anyway.
Oh, I see. So because you think Jesus has a "gay moment" -- whatever that is supposed to mean -- that means that overrides all other scripture that calls homosexuality an abomination?
If that was true, it would mean Jesus was a sinner, and, therefore, not divine.
ebeatworld 1 year ago
what other scripts besides levticus condems homosexuality?
louib716 1 year ago
@louib716
Where do I start? First of all, the scriptures don't need to reiterate themselves over and over if they are truly divine, but I'll give you a list at the top of my head of scriptures about this: 2Peter 2:4-9, Roman 1:24-27, 1Corinthians 6:9-11, 1Timothy 1:9-11, Jude 1:7.
there are also countless references to sexual immorality as being ungodly. Homosexuality is usually in the list with adultery, fornication, etc. Sdm and Gmrah is also mentioned a lot for the homosexuality.
ebeatworld 1 year ago
@ebeatworld the story of sodom and gomorah never really seemed like a condemnation of homosexuality to me, just a bunch of sociopathic rapists
u didnt come up with that list off the top of your head, you either spent a good chunk of your life looking those quotes up, your brain is a fucking computer, or youre obsessed with biblical homosexuality or just homosexuality period
can you give me a REAL reason why being gay is so evil? im curious if there even is one.
louib716 1 year ago
@louib716 ; "can you give me a REAL reason why being gay is so evil? im curious if there even is one"
i'm not advocating either position,but.....here's one: the parts don't fit....pretty simple, really. If you're an evolutionary biologist, there's no legitimate reason to be gay, and it should be bred out by more desirable characteristics.....that's darwin, not me.
sounddiv 1 year ago
@sounddiv but that doesnt explain why the male g-spot is within the rectum. love doesnt really follow reason. of course the logical choice for sexual preference would be to be straight. therefore, it's fair to assume that if it were a choice, no one would be gay. no one knows for sure if genes, hormones, or environment causes homosexuality, so alluding to darwin might be a bit of a jump, friend :), though i do see where youre going with it. assuming
louib716 1 year ago
@ebeatworld : "scriptures don't need to reiterate themselves over and over if they are truly divine"
LOGIC 101: this is "Non sequitur" (literally means "it does not follow")
just because a text reiterates itself over and over doesn't prove it is (fill in the blank). A divine text could reiterate itself 50,000 times...
sounddiv 1 year ago
@sounddiv
My comment would make more sense if you were to read the whole debate. The question was whether or not the Bible condemns homosexuality. I said that it clearly does. Then he said something like, "Well, can you tell me some place besides Leviticus that condemns it?" To which i followed up with more passages that condemns it.
My point was if you believe the Bible is true, why would one mention of homosexuality as sin not be enough? How many times is sufficient?
ebeatworld 1 year ago
Comment removed
sounddiv 1 year ago
@ebeatworld , Jesus Christ is DEAD already if he ever existed in the first place! I don't believe if he did live he was ever divine! There's roughly 4.5 billion other people who believe as I do!
99minerkc 1 year ago
@99minerkc
Good for you. That has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
ebeatworld 1 year ago
@ebeatworld , Good for me bad for you!! Religious people are evil! The pope(top dog) is proof of it!
99minerkc 1 year ago
@99minerkc
Ah, that was a clever insult. You have defeated me, 99minerkc. I bow down at your feet.
ebeatworld 1 year ago
@99minerkc "Religious people are evil": really? ALL religious people are evil? Look up WIlliam Wilburforce, who...as a religious person..ended slavery in England.
...look up a guy named Martin Luther King, Jr....
Look up 50 of the 53 Founding Fathers of America...
sounddiv 1 year ago
@sounddiv , another typical religious person who takes things literally!! Show me once spot where I said 100% religious people are evil! What do the founding fathers who advocated for SEPARATION of church from state (they knew of religion's evil)have to do with anything? Did you know that some of them were atheist? Some were agnostic? That's right! Did you know that Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the bible and that he was not a christian? GET REAL!
99minerkc 1 year ago
@99minerkc : look up Josephus, Pliny the younger, not to mention the historical documents (which are in the bible). He was a real, historical figure. If you doubt that (based on the historical documents),you also doubt the existence of Nero,Jesse James, and Henry VIII.
sounddiv 1 year ago
@sounddiv Did you know that Josephus writing regarding Jesus "super natural" qualities has been deemed by historians as most likely a forgery? Bet you didn't know or if you did you're being intellectually dishonest. As far as jesus being a historical figure ie a holy "man" I would support that. No super natural garbage needed.
99minerkc 7 months ago
@99minerkc no, muslims believe he existed but he never died, someone else was crucified in his place
MamaMario13 7 months ago
@ebeatworld Oh yeah? What about DIVORCE? Jesus spoke against it (unlike same sex love)! Yet all Christian sects except Catholics allow it & even they (if you have money) will grant an annulment. The hypocrisy of Christian churches is why it is hemorrhaging believers. It will be lucky to last 200 more years!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston I can't speak for all churches. But my church and most I know of feel the same way about divorce as they do about homosexuality. I don't know what churches you are talking about. We do believe divorce is a sin.
Jesus also quoted OT scripture time and time again. And if you believe he is God in the flesh like the Bible says, then He wrote the words. The words spoken throughout the Bible condemning homosexuality, (including many times by Paul), are theopneustos (God breathed.)
ebeatworld 1 year ago
re the argument that there is nothing wrong with a loving (homosexual ) relationship - this is a lie from satan himself because:
- Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to love your Lord God with all your heart
- any romantic relationship is a form of idolatry if it comes between you and God or is not used to glorify God
- gay relationships can never glorify God because they are not the marriage that God intended
urrockina 1 year ago
@urrockina
The 2nd bullet means that there can be no marriage or relationships anyway therefore all people's romantic relationships are wrong.
jackskellingtonsora 1 year ago
marriage between man and woman is something that the Lord made, and it can be fruitful (bring more of God's children into the world) so it definitely brings glory to God :)
urrockina 1 year ago
@urrockina
But you said that any romantic relationship is a form of idolatry if it comes between you and god or is not used to glorify god. What about the gay relationships that do infact glorify god and both of the people are glorifying god in all they do? How is that possible? Why does it happen?
jackskellingtonsora 1 year ago
@urrockina
So are heterosexual married couples who cannot have children/don't want kids not able to "bring glory to god"? Marriage is not about producing children, it is about love between two people who wish to spend their lives together.
00Gameshark 1 year ago
Comment removed
sounddiv 1 year ago
Homosexuality is not the sin. Acting on the sex is the sin. The scripture only states that sex is a gift of God to be shared by a man and woman after marriage. I do not know why I was challenged with this same sex attraction, but if you ask Jesus daily to be guided by him and do what he asks then it will all lead to where you need to go. With Jesus there are no boundaries in life, just the ones we place on ourselves.
39Mustangman 1 year ago
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo
Sin, yes a sin. If I believe in the Bible, all of these things would be considered sins.
Since we are talking about sexual preference, it is the same exact thing as being a pedophile, which is considered by religious and areligious people alike to be wrong, anyway you look at it. The excuse of it being inherent is not acceptable in any way. We don't just say to pedophiles "It's not their fault, let them do what they want." No, because its wrong any way you slice it.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
The difference between sexual preference and acts with children, disabled adults, adults in a coma, animals etc is: These people are considered wrong by "areligious" people because one person exercises sexual acts with a human or being that does not consent, or is incapable of forming consent, mentally or physically.
The CONSENT to being penetrated or touched is the crucial point where to point evil to - not the Bible or anything else.
dinavienna 1 year ago
@dinavienna
No, you are bringing up a completely different topic. My point has nothing to do with the act of rape, it has to do with the justification of the participation in homosexual activities by stating that it is their natural tendency. In other words, the idea that its acceptable for someone to partake in homosexual activities on the basis that its biologically inherent. If that is a motive for why it is acceptable, every evil act a person can think of is acceptable.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
You said: "Even areligious people" do not accept sexual preferences, and then made the analogy to pedophily. This is not true because no "areligious" person would equal the two, but derive harm from one (the abuse of a person not capable of consenting), and see no harm in the other (two adults choosing to act upon their private individual prefernces).
The point is biologically determined or not: Areligious people see no harm in consensual adult relationships as long as their is
dinavienna 1 year ago
@dinavienna Regardless of moral inclination there is no logical justification for homosexual acts. Whether or not anyone can actually reason without morals is questionable. However, if one attempted to reason from an evolutionary standpoint, homosexuality is a hinderance to your "species."
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
abuse, coercion, or doubtful power imbalance involved, all of which would render any relationship, hetero or homosexual, violent or abusive, and therefore doubtful/wrong.
WIthout a millenia old scripture, an areligious person simply sees no harm in homosexual preference, much in contrast to pedophilic preferences.
So your entire point on areligious people's preoccupations is off point.
Besides: It looks like more and more scientific evidence points to a biological cause for
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
homosexuality.
IF in a couple of years a gene of homosexuality, or a hormonal basis is found a lot of people will laugh their behinds off because exactly the research people like you encouraged (that is the fundamentalists agitating against homosexuals' private choices) will prove your millenia old Middle Eastern scriptures wrong.
an omniscient God would have known it would not be a sin, but a genetic disposition. Hence you will have to throw your book out the door I predict.
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
And that BECAUSE of homosexuality. What an irony that will be!
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
In contrast to this, we are not talking about rape by a gay man here. We are talking about consensual relationships. And they have nothing to do with abuse of a mentally inferior human or being at all, at least in the mind of "areligious", or rational, people.
dinavienna 1 year ago
@dinavienna
The point of my argument is that we would never justify someone for being a pedophile by stating that its biologically inherent. However, with the acts of homosexuality that is exactly what society attempts to do. Society labels homosexual tendencies as acceptable based on the notion that they're genetically prone to be homosexual. Yet, if someone is genetically prone to murdering people the act is deemed inexcusable, even though they can both be justified using the same logic.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
In fact we do in every criminal case of child abuse invoke a "biological" or rather psychological disposition. Take a child molester who raped and even killed a child. IF he is found mentally sick we do say he is not responsible for his act. In the criminal law of my country that means he cannot be tried for murder. He will be put into a psychiatric ward, but NOT receive a life sentence. The quality of the psychiatric ward as opposed to prison is: At any point they are CURED
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
they CANNOT be detained anymore.
This means: A child rapist and murderer theoretically could be released after very few months or years if doctors say he is cured (unlikely, but still).
That is because we say he is not a criminal, but not responsible for his act due to his mental illness. So in a way you can liken society's growing acceptance of homosexuality as potentially genetically determined to society's traditional acceptance of mental illness setting off criminal guilt.
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
And the difference here is yet, whcih you want to escape all the time: WIth child murder no one, religious or areligious, no one sees anything positive or "rightful"about taking a life. Everyone condemns it as an act.
With homosexuality the large majority of society in the 21st century not enslaved to millenia old books does not see the slightest wrong in adult consensual relationships. We simply think its a. not wrong at all, b. not our business at all.
dinavienna 1 year ago
@dinavienna
Also, you said that no areligious person would not equate the two acts. But, they have no choice in the matter, if you justify the one act based on genetics what law excludes the other from being justified based on genetics? There is no objective criterion, outside of the one you just created for yourself, as to why murder is wrong. Therefore, an areligious person or atheist would be claiming a moral law that is objective, which is contradictory to their world view.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9 Yes but right and wrong are set by in our country by secular reasoning not religion. Gays do not hurt anyone (no matter what silly argument you try) and give consent; children & animal can't! That the prejudice is being based on religion should be a clue as to why it should never be used to base laws or grant rights on. 200 years ago it was perfectly right to own people; no more!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston
The concept of right and wrong come from God. The country copies most of its standards and regulations come from the Judeo-Christian worldview, regardless of what you think. I never said that Homosexuals hurt anyone, although they are, in the end, hurting themselves. But, that doesn't mean that what they're doing is right or even logical. No homosexual act can be logically defended by the theist or the atheist using evolutionary terms.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9 No they did not and you can't prove they did. if you referring to the bible, the bible was written by men not god (no matter what you choose to believe) and there were law and the concept about right and wrong long before the Jews began the bible, get some history lessons - they will help!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston
Your statement "all morality is subjective," would then have to be subjective as well, which means it isn't true for all people or all the time and it also means that you can't tell anyone they're right or wrong for doing anything. In addition, your claiming that your position is objective while at the same time claiming that there is no objectivity in morality. I fear that you don't understand the consequences of what you've just stated.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@alpeaston
Secular Reason can never lead to a society where the rules and regulations are followed for logical reasons. There is no logical reason for me to act in a socially respectable manner if right and wrong are only ultimately set by secular reasoning. You can't prove what you think is good is better than what anyone else thinks is good, it's subjective. And even if you can you can't logically expect anyone else to follow what you think over what they think.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9 all morality is subjective. The delusion that objective morality comes from the bible or god is ludicrous! There was morality before the bible was written and there is morality now (built on human social interaction and the need created by it). But again, discussing this with you is nonsense. I know you can't change, your too scared! I just hope other are getting this info!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston
If all morality is subjective, than acts are sometimes good and sometimes bad. Therefore, it would okay sometimes to kill an innocent toddler or rape a young girl, according to your subjective morality. Furthermore, it would be okay sometimes for me someone to kill anyone unjustly.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@alpeaston
If I can defend the standpoint that homosexual acts are acceptable on the basis that we're animals and some people are "wired" that way, you cannot argue that I can use this same standard to justify pedophilia. The humanist, secularist, and atheist says that we're animals and its normal for some people to be homosexual. Therefore, any act can be justified on these terms, you can't start borrowing your morality from another source, right and wrong don't exist in that world view.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9 that gays are wired to love the same sex is only one part of the equation. That the two people involved are consenting and informed ADULTS is the second level and neither pedophiles or people into bestiality are getting legal consent! Again, go away, find some white supremacy group that need a new member, you're stupidity is boring already!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston
The main argument in support of homosexual behavior is the fairy tale that we're animals and that some people are "inherently" gay. If we're just animals and our morality is subjective, as you have stated, there is no logical basis for you to even be commenting on this video. You can have your own morality, but you can't tell anyone else that their view is wrong, based on the logical out-workings of your own beliefs.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@alpeaston
Ultimately, the morality comes from God, the Bible is not the ultimately cause or source of morality. If you deny that our morality and, indeed, the entire worlds morality is influence from the judeo-christian worldview, than you're simply not basing your opinion on facts. Even the most rigid atheists would admit that their morality is heavily influenced, if not completely molded by it.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@alpeaston
You've failed to give any basis for me to believe that human beings are animals, and have yet to espouse any basis or motive for me to not treat humans like animals, which is the only logical conclusion of your beliefs. Also, simply because the majority or mainstream biological or "scientific" belief is one of ignorance, it doesn't mean it's right. It's called the paradigm from which life is viewed currently, it has no implications as far as the truth of that paradigm.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@dinavienna
Basically, my point is that if you're going to state that homosexual acts are acceptable you better find another reason to do so. Genetic predisposition is not justification to take part in any activity. If you're going to take part it in those acts don't tell me you had no choice because you were "born" that way.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
there seems to be a gene for aggression, greater propensity to criminality. No, this does not mean they had no choice. They have. Here is the point again: Criminal activity is antisocial activity.
No one areligious believes consensual relationships are harmful or antisocial in any way.
besides: The attraction to another person, the ability to fall in love is quite a bit more essential to human happiness. If you are not attracted to women and denied to live out your attraction
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
to men you will not achieve satisfaction in your love life. This is a huge part of human existence. So quite a bit more central and essential to a human's life and the success therein than whether one can live out one's aggression.
It is quite outrageous people who are not concerned by how it feels to be attracted to the own sex only dare downtalk this attraction of others. Be happy you love women (men in case you are a woman).
What's your business in others not feeling this way?
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
Obey your God if you believe in it. Mind your own sins.
But dare not psychologically torturing people who happen to be different, than you, not attracted to the opposite sex. 99% of the time I hear heterosexual people talk about and judge things they necessarily have not the slightest idea about. Every human knows the temptation of stealing I guess, in childhood or later. NOT every human being knows the temptation of attraction to the other sex.
dinavienna 1 year ago
@dinavienna
I truly don't see where the moral logic comes from in the atheistic world view. I wouldn't justify a murderer, but using the logic of justifying homosexual acts I very well could justify their acts. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, but everyone is not entitled to their own universal laws.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RoyalBaller9 **Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, but everyone is not entitled to their own universal laws. **
Yes but in the USA we are all entitled to equality under the law. You can dislike gays, blacks, women, Mormons but you do not have the right to discriminate against them or deny then equality.
alpeaston 1 year ago
@dinavienna
I don't believe that human beings are animals. If you want to believe that you're the same as a monkey, a dog, or any other animal thats your own choice. Also, if you want to justify an act based on inherent inclinations its your own choice as well. But, there is no option for that act to be deemed okay based on those genetic predispositions. Furthermore, if you want to compare yourself and judge what is appropriate based on what animals do in nature you can continue to do so.
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9 I don't give a rats ass what you believe (especially since you are a dulusional religious asshole) but humans are animals whether you like the distinction or not. Now don't you have a KKK meeting or bible study to go to?
alpeaston 1 year ago
@alpeaston
Funny you try to characterize me as intolerant when that is exactly what you're being right now towards anyone that disagrees with your belief. Just because you're indoctrinated by the mainstream and controlled miseducation where ever you are doesn't mean you know for a fact that humans are animals. I love your wonderful use of ad-hominems without giving any objective fact
RoyalBaller9 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9 listen, I've actually wasted enough time on you nonsense. Human being are animals. Just cause you do not like that distinction doesn't make you right. .Any biology teacher (well except in a "religious school") will tell you that. Sorry but its true. (as is the fact that anyone who believes in religion and go is delusional,; there is ZERO poof!
alpeaston 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
The logical explanation for homosexual behavior is attraction. You can measure attraction of heterosexual and homosexual test persons by physically measuring their reaction (widening of the inner of the eye, heartrate, sweat etc) indicating attraction to pictures.
There you have your logics of why they want to flirt, kiss, have sex with persons of one sex and not the other: Attraction.Yes, it is not reproductive. Neither is love and sex in the post-menopause age. It still exists
dinavienna 1 year ago
@RoyalBaller9
there is no reproduction in the sex life of a sterile couple. The "logical" explanation for their continued love and sex life is attraction, not reproduction. And fun and lust. The logical explanation for most of human sexuality in contrast to most animal species, who have sexuality only for reproduction with the exception of the highest developed species like apesl
Besides "nature": You do know even in wildlife observation homosexuality has been confirmedd amongst animals?
dinavienna 1 year ago